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| 02:59.45 | Utah_Dave | ~lart brasto |
| 02:59.45 | jbot | turns brasto into a lifesized tux doll |
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| 03:23.19 | thebigdog | evening all |
| 03:24.47 | Utah_Dave | evening, thebigdog |
| 03:25.40 | thebigdog | how you doing Utah_Dave |
| 03:33.21 | Utah_Dave | pretty good. you? |
| 03:54.32 | thebigdog | doing good just working is all |
| 03:54.45 | thebigdog | trying to figure out how i can pull data from a remote system |
| 03:55.18 | thebigdog | and need to write some database code for connecting products to pages |
| 04:02.47 | Utah_Dave | joy |
| 04:02.59 | Utah_Dave | I |
| 04:03.11 | Utah_Dave | I'm trying to decide how I'm going to structure a new app |
| 04:06.09 | Utah_Dave | Well, I'm off to bed. good luck thebigdog |
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| 04:07.32 | thebigdog | night bro |
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| 04:49.17 | carmony | so, any Ogden PHPers? :p |
| 04:56.32 | thebigdog | yeah |
| 04:56.45 | thebigdog | kinda...layton really |
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| 15:21.50 | itimber | mornin' guys |
| 15:22.35 | beandog | hol |
| 15:22.36 | beandog | a |
| 15:24.03 | mindjuju | hola gents |
| 15:25.54 | beandog | http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/The-Hot-Room.aspx |
| 15:25.59 | beandog | that is awesome |
| 15:26.04 | beandog | heya mindjuju, how long you been up |
| 15:30.09 | mindjuju | actually, today i got 6 hrs sleep, but the other day, was on 3 hrs |
| 15:31.04 | mindjuju | she's kind of a cutie |
| 15:31.56 | mgeary | that's just wrong |
| 15:32.50 | mindjuju | dude, don't be hating on Palin cause she's pretty |
| 15:33.00 | mindjuju | far easier on the eyes than Hilary |
| 15:33.48 | mindjuju | i mean, i wouldn't vote for mccain palin cause palin is pretty, all i'm saying is that she's pretty |
| 15:34.07 | mgeary | ...until she opens her mouth |
| 15:35.04 | mindjuju | ah, the only difference between palin and biden or others is that the media has their favorite |
| 15:35.16 | unum | bah |
| 15:35.17 | mindjuju | biden has said some dumb things too, but don't see the news harping |
| 15:35.31 | unum | my news sources talk about all the dumb things he says |
| 15:35.46 | unum | well I guess they just point out that he says dumb things a lot |
| 15:36.09 | mindjuju | at least on NPR over the last 3 weeks, they been very biased in their representation of politics |
| 15:36.27 | unum | I don't listen to NPR, so I wouldn't know |
| 15:36.34 | unum | I can't stand to listen/watch news |
| 15:36.40 | mgeary | NPR++ |
| 15:37.00 | mgeary | though the Fall Fund Drive began today. |
| 15:37.07 | unum | I used to listen to NPR, they're ok because they don't spend a lot of time on sport/celebs |
| 15:37.17 | mindjuju | i listen to NPR every now and then, but have been listening to them recently to see what the other guys think |
| 15:37.39 | unum | I guess I should have told someone to listen to them to get "the other side" |
| 15:37.56 | mindjuju | so don't listen to them tons, but don't listen to rush, beck or others that much either |
| 15:38.11 | unum | a woman I know asked who she could listen to because she thought her current "news" sources were somewhat biased |
| 15:38.33 | unum | her current sources were of course rush and hannity |
| 15:39.47 | mgeary | you know, it's not so much the bias that bothers me with the well-known right-wing radio hosts. It's the divisiveness and hate-mongering |
| 15:40.08 | mindjuju | funny you say that, my wife was asking me a good source to find out more about the candidates that REALLY impartial |
| 15:40.21 | unum | I hate how both of your extremes try to promote so much misunderstanding |
| 15:40.39 | unum | I'll have to remember that |
| 15:40.44 | unum | i had the same question. |
| 15:40.48 | unum | from someone |
| 15:41.00 | mindjuju | here is the link to thier publication |
| 15:41.00 | mgeary | there's no such thing as impartiality |
| 15:41.00 | mindjuju | http://www.lwv.org/AM/Template.cfm?Template=/CM/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=12078 |
| 15:41.02 | unum | I said go to their own websites, watch the debates. |
| 15:41.13 | mindjuju | it's just straight up platform, bio, etc |
| 15:41.16 | mindjuju | they let you decide |
| 15:41.30 | mindjuju | mgeary, i think there is |
| 15:41.37 | mindjuju | and the LOWV gets pretty darn close |
| 15:42.20 | mgeary | to have a bias is human |
| 15:42.30 | mgeary | in writing anything you decide what to include and what not to include |
| 15:42.39 | mgeary | you cannot escape bias |
| 15:42.57 | mgeary | you may think the boundaries you set on your bias are reasonable, but who's to say that your definition of reasonable is valid? |
| 15:43.16 | mgeary | read the information, consider the source, and then draw your own conclusions |
| 15:43.24 | mindjuju | we could debate philosophy, but answer me this first, have you looked at their publication |
| 15:43.27 | mgeary | but always consider the source |
| 15:44.02 | mindjuju | i think you'll be surprised |
| 15:46.00 | unum | this conversation reminds me of "good night, and good luck" that's such a good movie |
| 15:46.31 | mindjuju | i'd really like to become involved with the LWV because of their impartiality |
| 15:46.54 | mindjuju | same questions to all candidates and questions are fair |
| 15:47.03 | mindjuju | they supply the answer |
| 15:47.31 | mindjuju | it's not somebody skimming the news or articles trying to gleam their response, it is the candidates own words, tehir response |
| 15:47.48 | mindjuju | impartiality is possible |
| 15:47.51 | mgeary | all i'm trying to point out is that someone decided which questions to ask, and which candidates to ask |
| 15:48.07 | mindjuju | and who did they ask in the publication? |
| 15:48.36 | mgeary | i'm still trying to get the download |
| 15:49.19 | mindjuju | here is the page that it can be accessed from - http://www.lwv.org/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Voter_Information |
| 15:50.36 | mgeary | just got it |
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| 15:53.06 | mindjuju | see, not too bad, huh? |
| 15:53.47 | mgeary | so, mindjuju, in looking at this, i would be inclined to think that the LWV is a left-leaning organization. Look at the questions they hit: global warming, education, health care, economic disparity. These are very traditional talking points for the democrats |
| 15:54.04 | mgeary | i don't have a problem with that, i'm just trying to demonstrate that everyone has a bias |
| 15:55.02 | mindjuju | except that one thing |
| 15:55.11 | mindjuju | those issues are of concern to the right also |
| 15:55.19 | mgeary | a more right-leaning organization might have asked questions about tax policy, smaller government/decreased regulation, etc |
| 15:55.29 | mgeary | yes, they're concerns |
| 15:55.30 | mindjuju | just because a person is rebpub doesn't mean they spit on the ground and leave trash everywhere |
| 15:55.44 | mgeary | but generally speaking, the right wing doesn't voluntarily bring up issues like global warming |
| 15:55.56 | mindjuju | they can be environmentally conscious too |
| 15:56.03 | mgeary | ^^ "generally speaking" |
| 15:56.16 | mindjuju | k, let's step back for a sec |
| 15:56.24 | mindjuju | there are some real wackos on the right |
| 15:56.31 | mindjuju | but guess what, they exist on the elft too |
| 15:56.52 | mindjuju | and if you get to talking to a group of conservatives, i thinkyou'll find your concerns are similar to theirs |
| 15:56.52 | mgeary | i'm not talking about wackos |
| 15:57.02 | mindjuju | i think your focusing on the wackos |
| 15:57.46 | fungus | both sides are concerned about all those topics, it's just a matter of priority. |
| 15:58.02 | mindjuju | fungus, i'd say that's a fair stament |
| 15:58.20 | beandog | hmm, thats a great point. |
| 15:58.26 | mgeary | what is? |
| 15:58.26 | fungus | the right doesn't prioritize global warming, education, ... |
| 15:58.28 | beandog | fungus for president |
| 15:58.38 | mgeary | well, everything's a matter of priority |
| 15:58.48 | fungus | the left doesn't prioritize tax policy, small govt, ... |
| 15:59.00 | mindjuju | v true |
| 15:59.23 | mgeary | do i want to see Azerbyjian prosper? Sure, but it's not very high on my priority list. |
| 16:00.17 | mindjuju | back to the original point, I support lwv |
| 16:00.26 | mgeary | well, i do too |
| 16:00.28 | mindjuju | take for example this passage |
| 16:00.37 | mindjuju | Unauthorized Immigrants Already in the U.S. In achieving overall policy goals, the League supports a system for unauthorized immigrants already in the country to earn legal status, including citizenship, by paying taxes, learning English, studying civics and meeting other relevant criteria. While policy reforms, including a path to legal status, remain unachieved, the League does not support deporting unauthorized immigrants who have no history of cr |
| 16:00.37 | mindjuju | Â Â |
| 16:00.37 | fungus | Yay, happiness all around |
| 16:00.38 | mgeary | i'm just trying to point out that *everyone* has a bias |
| 16:00.56 | mindjuju | you could show that to an arizona minuteman, and i think they'd agree |
| 16:01.04 | mindjuju | you might have some that didn't, but it'd be few |
| 16:01.13 | mindjuju | take it to La Raza and you'd see the same |
| 16:01.19 | beandog | Since when do we have an official language. |
| 16:01.25 | beandog | We dont. Drop it. |
| 16:01.48 | beandog | sorry |
| 16:02.02 | mindjuju | actually, i think there is a lot to gain in national unity by everybody speaking a common language |
| 16:02.06 | beandog | its been one of those weeks |
| 16:02.22 | beandog | mindjuju, I agree, but how would you feel if you were the one forced to learn one |
| 16:02.34 | mindjuju | funny you should ask, i was one |
| 16:02.40 | mindjuju | parents from Mexico |
| 16:02.43 | mindjuju | lived in China |
| 16:02.55 | mindjuju | i'm first gen here |
| 16:03.05 | beandog | well thanks for killing my point, jerk. :) |
| 16:03.07 | mindjuju | and my parents did it legally |
| 16:03.29 | mindjuju | but you know in China, everything is in chinese |
| 16:03.34 | mindjuju | all gov forms, everything |
| 16:03.54 | mindjuju | in order to get things done, i had to drag a translator with me until i was fluent enough to do it on my own |
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| 16:04.00 | mindjuju | and by 6months, i was ok |
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| 16:05.08 | beandog | mindjuju, I dunno, I tend to see stuff like that as a euphemism for racism |
| 16:05.26 | beandog | not coming from you, of course |
| 16:05.29 | mindjuju | it can be, but doesn't have to be |
| 16:05.38 | beandog | I agree |
| 16:06.07 | beandog | but it just usually seems to be along the same vein of "lets get these non-whites out of our country" or throw up more barriers to getting citizenship |
| 16:06.38 | mindjuju | short-sightedness |
| 16:06.53 | mindjuju | a lot of people don't realize that latin american's arent' the only ones that are illegal |
| 16:07.04 | mindjuju | Asians in the west, Europeans inthe east |
| 16:07.17 | mindjuju | happens al the time and from all borders |
| 16:07.47 | mindjuju | i don't know though, if Canadians are to excited about being here :) |
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| 16:08.52 | mindjuju | well, better get back to work, but this was good |
| 16:12.10 | beandog | thanks mindjuju |
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| 16:34.30 | SunSparc | http://bluesun7.com/jonathan/?p=135 |
| 16:37.06 | mgeary | would you feel the same way if your employer went out of business as a result of inaction? An employer that had absolutely nothing to do with causing the problem, but who's bank cannot release funds needed for payroll and other expenses? |
| 16:37.23 | mgeary | s/who's/whose/ |
| 16:38.49 | mindjuju | just a quick point, then have to get back to some server maintenence, but choosing not to do the bailout isn't inaction, it's a choice to not do the bailout. the pdf he supplied is an option, not sure if it'll work, but an option |
| 16:40.32 | DexterTheDragon | people would have been affected with or without a bailout |
| 16:40.42 | *** part/#uphpu tonedevf (n=dave@post.tonedb.org) |
| 16:41.12 | mgeary | true, but that's not to say there won't be a difference in how many are affected and to what extent |
| 16:52.39 | mindjuju | wps, you around? |
| 16:52.44 | wps | y |
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| 16:59.22 | mindjuju | <feed frenzy> Posting a contract gig - looks good</feed frenzy> |
| 17:02.50 | mindjuju | macnewbold, mgeary, thebigdog, brasto ( the only code dev shops i can think of off hand) you may want to take a peak |
| 17:07.07 | _psychic_ | how big is it |
| 17:07.39 | mindjuju | build apis for a website |
| 17:07.59 | mindjuju | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:08.29 | mindjuju | if interested either go to mailing list for contact info or PM me and i'll send to you |
| 17:14.42 | mgeary | looks fun, but we're swamped with dev work atm |
| 17:15.01 | mindjuju | good to hear mgeary |
| 17:24.28 | thebigdog | sounds like crap work |
| 17:24.28 | thebigdog | hehe |
| 17:27.54 | beandog | mgeary, welcome to #wonderland |
| 17:29.49 | mindjuju | email on geek lunch just posted to uphpu maling list |
| 17:29.56 | mindjuju | The Happy Sumo on thursday at 1p |
| 17:30.00 | mindjuju | gateway |
| 17:30.14 | mindjuju | beandog - bet they'd have hamburgers there, so you should go! |
| 17:30.28 | beandog | Happy Sumo? I wanna eat at the Angry Clown |
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| 17:35.13 | beandog | ? |
| 17:35.17 | beandog | can php save session info in sqlite? |
| 17:35.49 | SunSparc | I would think so. I can save to mysql |
| 17:35.54 | SunSparc | it |
| 17:36.34 | beandog | huh |
| 17:36.36 | beandog | thats pretty cool |
| 17:40.17 | mgeary | it is. i've been meaning to use that |
| 18:39.06 | wps | why are you converting it? |
| 18:41.28 | DexterTheDragon | cause jquery > prototype |
| 18:42.03 | wps | I agreeâ¦Â I was just wondering if that was his only reason |
| 18:42.36 | wps | if the site is already done in proto, is it worth converting? |
| 18:44.09 | jsmith | If it's worth writing, it's worth writing again? |
| 18:44.37 | wps | like congress and this bailout garbage |
| 18:44.40 | DexterTheDragon | only if you can write it better |
| 18:45.42 | mindjuju | jsmith, i heard digum is doing something with skype |
| 18:47.15 | SunSparc | digum? Is not that what the Sugar Smacks frog says? |
| 18:52.58 | jsmith | mindjuju: Yes... we demo'd the Skype channel driver for Asterisk last week |
| 18:53.33 | jsmith | mindjuju: We'll be entering a closed beta soon, and then go live sometime after that... but yes, you can now have Asterisk call Skype and vice-versa |
| 18:57.33 | carmony | wps: the reason is size and bugginess. The previous developers had used all sorts of weird "plugins |
| 18:57.45 | wps | cool |
| 18:57.48 | carmony | that are conflicting, and the size off all the libraries is huge |
| 18:57.58 | wps | anyone recommend an AJAX file browser? |
| 18:58.13 | carmony | AND we're about to build out a lot of new features, so I said "now or never", so we picked now :) |
| 18:58.24 | wps | sounds smart |
| 18:58.44 | carmony | what do you mean ajax file browser? |
| 18:58.57 | carmony | like put it on a web server and have it browse specified directories? |
| 18:59.30 | wps | like this: http://www.ajaxplorer.info/ |
| 18:59.46 | wps | and this: http://ecosmear.com/relay/ |
| 18:59.51 | wps | those are the two best that I have found |
| 18:59.53 | wps | everything else is crap |
| 19:00.24 | wps | that second one is the only that has a decent interface, but I don't like that it requires a database |
| 19:00.49 | beandog | http://gadgets.boingboing.net/noyoucant.jpg |
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| 20:13.10 | carmony | anyone ever have a problem with FF3 not processing <script> tags? |
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| 20:14.18 | carmony | its not throwing an error or anything |
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| 20:16.50 | Utah_Dave | mindjuju: bummer, I'm not going to be able to come to the Geek lunch. |
| 20:20.03 | mgeary | really great section today on All Things Considered about how the credit crisis can affect "main street" |
| 20:21.33 | Utah_Dave | mgeary: what were the main points made? |
| 20:22.39 | mgeary | it's all about credit. Businesses take out lines of credit to cover day-to-day costs. These days, getting credit is becoming much much harder |
| 20:23.13 | mgeary | through no fault of their own, businesses will stop being able to get the credit they need, and they'll collapse |
| 20:25.20 | wps | things are going to need to collapse and things are going to need to hurt of people are never going to learn their lesson and it's never going to get better and we are going to be back in this same mess next year |
| 20:25.26 | wps | s/of/or/ |
| 20:26.30 | unum | that's right I'll never go with the company 401k again. I'll become a financial expert, and handle my own investments |
| 20:26.32 | wps | if they want to save those businesses, then why don't they melt down those golden parachutesâ¦Â they'd better dang well not use my money |
| 20:26.36 | unum | </sarcasm> |
| 20:27.47 | wps | a 401k is a riskâ¦Â it's out on the marketâ¦Â if you're not willing to take that risk, you shouldn't invest |
| 20:28.00 | mgeary | again, we're talking about YOUR employer, who has done absolutely nothing wrong, not being able to have access to the credit that allows them to function |
| 20:28.44 | wps | you shouldn't be running on borrowed funds |
| 20:28.55 | unum | um..... |
| 20:29.25 | unum | I disagree with that |
| 20:31.07 | carmony | lol, the idea is smaller and start-up comanies many times get their first break with investor money, or small business loans |
| 20:31.33 | carmony | the company I work for now was 3 days away from landing some investiment capital to help production faster.... and then the market crap happened |
| 20:31.46 | carmony | so the investors backed out until things settled down |
| 20:32.06 | wps | and that's fine, but you'd better understand the risk and take responsibility for when things don't pan out |
| 20:32.16 | wps | it's not the government's responsibility to save your loan |
| 20:32.29 | fungus | wps hides all his money in his mattress |
| 20:36.14 | _psychic_ | :) |
| 20:37.03 | mgeary | did wps leave because he felt we were beating him up? |
| 20:37.21 | mgeary | though point of fact, even well cash-lubricated companies often still rely heavily on credit |
| 20:37.32 | _psychic_ | if he did it was probably for good reason |
| 20:37.55 | _psychic_ | I don't usually agree with his matter of fact, black and white political stance |
| 20:38.44 | macnewbold | yeah, I hope that wasn't a wps walkout cause he disagreed |
| 20:38.58 | jsmith | I try to stay out of the political conversations, but I tend to think that credit has been too easy to get over the past decade or so, and we're only now seeing the consequences |
| 20:39.36 | macnewbold | I agree with jsmith - some people have loaned money to risky people, and now times got tough and many of the riskiest have defaulted |
| 20:39.42 | _psychic_ | I think that was his point as well (wps) |
| 20:39.53 | macnewbold | so the lenders are in a pinch, cause they took too much risk and it bit them |
| 20:39.58 | mgeary | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:40.04 | macnewbold | doesn't mean that lending or borrowing are inherently evil though |
| 20:40.15 | mgeary | however, the fact remains that if businesses can't get credit, things shut down real quick-like |
| 20:40.24 | macnewbold | this is true also |
| 20:40.27 | jsmith | And in some ways, I realize that some banks were practically forced to make risky loans (CRA and all that) |
| 20:40.46 | Utah_Dave | I think that if you are in the business of making money by lending money, and you are stupid enough to lend money to people who can't pay you back, the you deserve to go out of business |
| 20:40.52 | jsmith | But tinkering in the market to fix a problem you caused by tinkering with the market just sounds like another disaster waiting to happen |
| 20:41.01 | Utah_Dave | s/the/then |
| 20:41.41 | carmony | the problem is that the total corporate ignorance if those HUGE companies will affect so many more people than just them. |
| 20:41.42 | jsmith | Utah_Dave: Obviously it's not that cut and dried... but as a general principal... those who loan should keep enough in reserve to be able handle those rainy days. |
| 20:42.05 | mgeary | they are required to. that's actually what's causing a lot of this problem |
| 20:42.22 | carmony | yup, the leaniency that was give for CRA |
| 20:42.31 | macnewbold | ~CRA |
| 20:42.34 | macnewbold | ~jargon CRA |
| 20:42.35 | mgeary | the reserves that banks have to keep are being depleted as values go down and as people & companies with large lines of credit cash them in to weather the storm |
| 20:42.48 | mgeary | which means that even if they wanted to, some banks can't lend money |
| 20:42.54 | carmony | yeah, it is just a mess |
| 20:43.03 | carmony | it all sucks, and so many parties are at fault |
| 20:43.35 | Utah_Dave | The biggest problem was our federal government distorting the markets by creating Freddie Mac and Fanny Mae. |
| 20:43.52 | carmony | I 100% agree |
| 20:44.05 | Utah_Dave | Also, the derivatives market is really killing of lot of the financial companies |
| 20:44.30 | Utah_Dave | but again, if they're too stupid to stay away from risky and complicated investments, then they should have to eat their own dogfood |
| 20:45.18 | carmony | its a huge issue of leaders, corporate or govermental, focusing on short-term issues and success compaired to long-term |
| 20:45.54 | carmony | Both Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae has issues of pressure to keep up with their huge growth, and the execs decided to continue down the risky road |
| 20:45.57 | carmony | it all just sucks ;) |
| 20:46.56 | mgeary | yeah, i wish i'd put all my savings into gold about 2 years ago |
| 20:47.24 | mgeary | bought a nice shiny gold paperclip |
| 20:48.02 | carmony | the peopel I feel bad for are the retieries(sp?) who are living off IRAs and other investments. The market will eventually recover, but they need their value now :p |
| 20:48.08 | _psychic_ | tru dat |
| 20:48.10 | mgeary | exactly |
| 20:48.18 | _psychic_ | well the market will recover ... if we let it :) |
| 20:50.49 | mgeary | but we could lose an enormous amount of foreign investment |
| 20:51.07 | mgeary | companies are choosing to list in London, rather than NYC |
| 20:51.34 | jsmith | mgeary: Don't think for a moment that London isn't having financial problems too |
| 20:51.55 | mgeary | yes, but they are largely related to what's happening here |
| 20:54.55 | mgeary | germany has been much less affected |
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| 20:59.56 | fungus | carmony: you shouldn't have money you need in the short term in the market. |
| 21:00.41 | fungus | retirees should have moved their money out of the market and into safe federal notes and bonds a couple years before retirement. |
| 21:04.10 | carmony | fungus: I agree. It was the retirees fault. |
| 21:04.13 | mgeary | i truly wonder how the millions of Americans who have essentially no savings are going to deal with retirement |
| 21:04.28 | carmony | work till they die |
| 21:04.46 | mgeary | i've been socking money aside for years and i'm still scared about being able to retire |
| 21:06.03 | carmony | I'm just shocked and appauled by the general fiscal irresponsibility of americans in general. |
| 21:10.05 | jsmith | mgeary: Amen, brother! |
| 21:13.26 | carmony | so on to a more happy subject... isn't jQuery just... awesomely sick? ;) |
| 21:14.17 | mgeary | i'd like to hear more about it being better than prototype |
| 21:14.45 | mgeary | what are jQuery's strengths and weaknesses? |
| 21:15.14 | carmony | jQuery is a lot more light-weight, smaller, better docs, bigger community, and more straight forward |
| 21:15.49 | carmony | jQuery does more than Prototype + Scripticouls( or whatever it is called) and is smaller. |
| 21:15.53 | carmony | it has a lot more plugins |
| 21:16.12 | carmony | My learning curve with jQuery has been a LOT easier than with Prototype |
| 21:16.12 | mgeary | interesting |
| 21:16.16 | mgeary | weaknesses? |
| 21:16.45 | carmony | Um, I honestly don't know, since I have yet to find anything that does anything better :p |
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| 21:20.23 | carmony | wow |
| 21:20.23 | carmony | http://www.cmswatch.com/Trends/1380-Microsoft-to-support-jQuery-24/7?source=RSS |
| 21:21.46 | mgeary | well gee. If it's good enough for Microsoft, it's good enough for me! |
| 21:21.52 | mgeary | oh, wait. |
| 21:23.07 | Utah_Dave | mgeary: jquery is the bomb |
| 21:23.07 | _psychic_ | at least they're supporting something open source |
| 21:23.17 | mgeary | true |
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| 21:27.49 | mgeary | ~kissandmakeup wps |
| 21:27.58 | wps | :) |
| 21:28.05 | wps | sorry I had to jet in the middle of that conversation |
| 21:28.07 | wps | had to go pick my wife up |
| 21:28.26 | mgeary | didn't seem like you to quit in a huff |
| 21:28.30 | wps | cool |
| 21:28.32 | unum | well now we're on to jquery |
| 21:28.43 | mgeary | yeah, turns out jquery is responsible for the credit crisis |
| 21:28.45 | unum | and how we all need to stop using it because ms is using |
| 21:29.13 | wps | clarification: no, I don't think things are as simple and black and white as I make them seemâ¦Â but I do think that one of the biggest problems with this country is our debt (collectively and individually) |
| 21:29.31 | mgeary | no arguments there |
| 21:29.39 | unum | well that I can agree with, but I still consider business debt differnt |
| 21:29.44 | unum | different |
| 21:29.53 | mgeary | but i would like to make a distinction between a business line of credit and consumer debt |
| 21:30.01 | mgeary | heh. yeah, what unum said |
| 21:30.03 | wps | I will agree with that |
| 21:30.09 | unum | mgeary: I like your wording better |
| 21:30.34 | wps | I understand that most businesses can't start without start-up capital |
| 21:30.43 | mgeary | but consumer debt is absolutely out of control. I read recently that the average american has $6k in credit card debt. Considering i have none, that means someone else has $12k |
| 21:30.52 | wps | I heard 10K |
| 21:30.59 | unum | well my dad was a distributor and often had to buy "mininium shipments" |
| 21:31.00 | mgeary | insane |
| 21:31.00 | wps | same! |
| 21:31.03 | wps | I have zero credit card debt |
| 21:31.15 | wps | it BLOWS my mind to fathom having 10K on a credit card |
| 21:31.52 | wps | I just read an article this morning of a family that has that much and they missed a payment so now their interest went from 7% to 30%! |
| 21:32.14 | unum | my work bounced some people's checks so that happened to them |
| 21:32.20 | *** part/#uphpu _psychic_ (n=_psychic@173.8.91.177) |
| 21:32.22 | Utah_Dave | At one point at the beginning of our marriage we were about $14,000 in debt |
| 21:32.29 | wps | but, to being the heartless pig I am, I don't have much sympathy for themâ¦Â they made the choice knowing the consequences |
| 21:32.50 | Utah_Dave | We busted our tails for a year and now we have absolutely no debt, except our mortgage |
| 21:32.58 | wps | that's awesome, Utah_Dave |
| 21:32.59 | Utah_Dave | It was the best thing we ever did |
| 21:33.02 | wps | good for you |
| 21:33.12 | unum | I want a congress to pass a bill that allows me to fillet the guy that was managing my money :) |
| 21:39.36 | mgeary | wow, Utah_Dave, eliminating $14k in one year, that's fantastic |
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| 21:42.10 | mgeary | can anyone here confirm that the iprovo network is experiencing an outage of some sort? |
| 21:42.16 | mgeary | i can't ping my home machine |
| 21:42.34 | mgeary | but traceroutes fail after only 3 steps, so it's presumably a fairly high-level outage |
| 21:43.22 | wps | I've been unable to ping my home machine from work for the past four days because my mother-in-law is staying with us and is sleeping in the office and I have to shut everything down so that she can sleep (my set up has a lot of lights :) ) |
| 21:43.35 | mgeary | heh |
| 21:43.57 | wps | I forget to turn it back on in the morning though and then it bites me in the butt when I try to SSH in from work |
| 21:43.59 | wps | (which I do a lot) |
| 21:46.46 | wps | can anyone see what wrong with this? |
| 21:46.47 | wps | grant all privileges on relay.* 'relay_user'@'localhost'; |
| 21:46.59 | wps | mysql says I have an error |
| 21:47.17 | wps | shee |
| 21:47.19 | wps | sh |
| 21:47.20 | wps | never mind |
| 21:47.25 | wps | was missing the "to" |
| 21:49.04 | Utah_Dave | Hey, wps, can I pm you? |
| 21:49.14 | wps | sure |
| 21:49.49 | wps | :) |
| 21:50.38 | unum | I bet this has got to be one of those most nerve racking things in the world |
| 21:50.43 | mgeary | totally |
| 21:50.49 | unum | though of course that's dependent on what makes you nervous |
| 21:51.04 | unum | making senator mccain mad makes me nervous |
| 21:51.22 | unum | that's why I always answer my phone when it rings.... |
| 21:54.14 | wps | she hasn't done too well on the last few interviewsâ¦Â I am very interested in how she does tonight |
| 21:54.19 | wps | anyone know what time it's on? |
| 21:54.28 | unum | 7pm mdt |
| 21:55.20 | wps | good |
| 21:55.24 | wps | won't miss The Office |
| 21:56.31 | wps | wait |
| 21:56.32 | wps | what?!?!?! |
| 21:56.38 | wps | the office isn't even on tonight? |
| 21:56.41 | wps | rediculous |
| 21:58.52 | mgeary | yeah, her interviews have been like train wrecks. You know you shouldn't watch it, but you just can't turn away |
| 21:59.21 | wps | I so need some candy right now |
| 21:59.25 | mgeary | come on over |
| 21:59.27 | mgeary | i've got tons |
| 21:59.35 | wps | I have a pounding headache |
| 22:01.12 | SunSparc | wps: pound back |
| 22:01.48 | jsmith | wps: What, can't make it to the vending machine? |
| 22:02.27 | wps | too frugal to use vending machines |
| 22:02.36 | wps | (I'm at home anyway) |
| 22:03.05 | wps | manâ¦Â I so which you could toss through IRC |
| 22:03.09 | mgeary | or would you rather have a few Riesen? |
| 22:03.14 | mgeary | Riesens++ |
| 22:03.15 | wps | fruities |
| 22:03.46 | orsonj | wps: http://www.apeacefultouch.com/resources/images/acupressure.jpg (tap points 2-7 for ten seconds each with your finger, repeat 2-4 times as needed) |
| 22:03.59 | orsonj | I find the above helps me many times |
| 22:04.30 | wps | why skip 1? |
| 22:04.57 | orsonj | The method I was taught didn't include 1, couldn't hurt to try though |
| 22:05.40 | orsonj | I just did an image search for acupressure and found one that most of the points |
| 22:05.46 | carmony | whew, migration to jQuery done : |
| 22:05.48 | carmony | :) |
| 22:05.58 | wps | that was quick |
| 22:07.48 | orsonj | s/that/that had/ |
| 22:10.01 | wps | I found some carmel-filled hershey kisses |
| 22:11.17 | macnewbold | sweet |
| 22:11.39 | wps | hey, Mac |
| 22:12.28 | mgeary | ugh |
| 22:12.33 | mgeary | wps: surely you can do better than that |
| 22:12.40 | mgeary | at least look for the almond ones |
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| 22:15.56 | wps | it was that or candy corns |
| 22:16.05 | wps | my pick'ns are slim |
| 22:16.19 | mgeary | gah |
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| 22:21.17 | mindjuju | that's a bummer Utah_Dave |
| 22:21.33 | mindjuju | you should tell them that going to this very improtant meet is... important! |
| 22:21.42 | mindjuju | you have to go, like a requirement |
| 22:21.46 | mindjuju | secret mission even |
| 22:22.00 | Utah_Dave | mindjuju: Unfortunately, I'm going to be somewhere in the Bahamas for work during the Geek Lunch |
| 22:22.12 | Utah_Dave | Working hard! |
| 22:22.24 | dataw0lf | everyone should add me on last.fm since I'm using it again. |
| 22:22.43 | fungus | hmm, Geek Lunch vs. Bahamas... tough decision</sarcasm> |
| 22:23.11 | dataw0lf | Utah_Dave: oooh, Bahamas! Nice. |
| 22:23.13 | dataw0lf | never been. |
| 22:23.41 | Utah_Dave | I went there about 2 months ago for the install, now I have to and train everyone how to use the system |
| 22:23.57 | Utah_Dave | s/to/to go/ |
| 22:24.17 | Utah_Dave | I went scuba diving for the first time while I was there. It was incredible |
| 22:24.23 | mindjuju | your life must stink, Utah_Dave |
| 22:24.38 | mindjuju | "HAVING" to go to the bahamas |
| 22:24.48 | Utah_Dave | It's rough, let me tell you |
| 22:24.50 | dataw0lf | ah, yea, scuba diving rocks. |
| 22:25.14 | dataw0lf | I'm currently positioning myself to move to Hawaii starting next year, and receive one heckuva pay raise. |
| 22:25.28 | Utah_Dave | I thought surfing was the most fun thing I had ever done, but scuba diving wins |
| 22:25.33 | mindjuju | @dataw0lf - Hawaii ? |
| 22:25.37 | mindjuju | that'd be awesome |
| 22:25.38 | Utah_Dave | dataw0lf: nice! |
| 22:26.40 | dataw0lf | yea, we own the Honolulu paper and they're going to need a new Online Director starting in January... |
| 22:27.24 | Utah_Dave | dataw0lf: need any php/python underlings to join you? :) |
| 22:27.42 | dataw0lf | haha. I may. I may ;-) Dunno if it's in the bag yet, but it may be. |
| 22:27.56 | dataw0lf | http://cyraxx.mirror.waffleimages.com/files/9f/9fe34758106e032cf4cd658c4f4f112b129cf3d6.gif |
| 22:45.44 | Utah_Dave | funny, dataw0lf. |
| 22:45.54 | Utah_Dave | I know a couple veterans who are going to like that |
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