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| 00:16.05 | thebigdog | what a shell of a man |
| 00:16.08 | thebigdog | just sad |
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| 05:09.05 | romanovic | dataw0lf, how'd the weekend go? |
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| 15:04.22 | SunSparc | guten Morgen jeder |
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| 15:07.21 | Utah_Dave | morning! |
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| 15:10.38 | PoeticIntensity | mornin' all. |
| 15:12.25 | carmony | morning :) |
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| 15:13.12 | PoeticIntensity | how did the transporting go last evening, SunSparc ? |
| 15:14.11 | SunSparc_ | PoeticIntensity: Flawless, thank you. |
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| 15:20.41 | PoeticIntensity | good to hear, bro. |
| 15:25.41 | SunSparc_ | PoeticIntensity: Are you feeling any better? |
| 15:25.49 | PoeticIntensity | ugh.... |
| 15:25.50 | PoeticIntensity | sort of... |
| 15:26.03 | PoeticIntensity | went to bed at 9:00am last night, in anticipation of a great night's sleep.... |
| 15:26.29 | PoeticIntensity | both kids had problems during the night, and I didn't sleep for more than 2 consecutive hours at a time... |
| 15:26.42 | PoeticIntensity | *cough* *sneeze* |
| 15:27.16 | SunSparc_ | Yikes |
| 15:27.22 | PoeticIntensity | yeah... |
| 15:27.28 | SunSparc_ | jbot, fix PoeticIntensity |
| 15:27.29 | jbot | ACTION opens the hood of PoeticIntensity , looks inside and says "that'll be 500 dollars." |
| 15:27.31 | PoeticIntensity | last night was... not fun. |
| 15:27.37 | PoeticIntensity | heh.. thanks SunSparc_ |
| 15:27.41 | SunSparc_ | :) |
| 15:27.58 | PoeticIntensity | So.... |
| 15:28.00 | PoeticIntensity | What are the chances... |
| 15:28.16 | PoeticIntensity | Yesterday morning, we sold our treadmill to a guy in Orem.... |
| 15:28.29 | PoeticIntensity | and he shows up last night being the one and only SunSparc_ .... :) |
| 15:28.38 | PoeticIntensity | hehe.... Good times. |
| 15:29.06 | SunSparc_ | Truly a small world. |
| 15:29.38 | SunSparc_ | I guess the world is smaller when the people involved actually use the Internet. |
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| 15:51.31 | carmony | lol, thats pretty funny. Here is a question: I'm looking for a good password hasher that is stronger than md5s :p |
| 15:52.36 | mgeary | sha |
| 15:53.16 | carmony | do you guys think salting them makes much difference? every password cracking software I've tried unsalts them with no trouble. |
| 15:53.37 | mgeary | well are you going for a 1-way hash, or for a 2-way encryption? |
| 15:53.42 | carmony | 1-way |
| 15:54.28 | mgeary | you don't add a salt to a hash, afaik |
| 15:54.42 | carmony | k, thats what I thought :) |
| 15:55.17 | DexterTheDragon | we salt our passwords |
| 15:55.29 | mgeary | DexterTheDragon: but do you encrypt them, or hash them? |
| 15:55.38 | DexterTheDragon | hash. sha1 |
| 15:56.37 | mgeary | http://us2.php.net/manual/en/function.sha1.php <-- there's no provision for adding a salt. Or do you do it manually before hasing? |
| 15:56.49 | DexterTheDragon | its done manually |
| 15:56.59 | mgeary | ah |
| 15:57.08 | DexterTheDragon | salting really is for when you hash |
| 15:57.18 | DexterTheDragon | its to prevent rainbow attacks |
| 15:57.42 | carmony | how do you salt a sha ? |
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| 15:58.18 | DexterTheDragon | you take your salt value append it to the password then hash it |
| 15:58.53 | carmony | thats a good idea |
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| 16:02.27 | carmony | DexterTheDragon: how long do you make your salts |
| 16:02.53 | DexterTheDragon | 4cbd040533a2f43fc6691d773d510cda70f4126a |
| 16:02.57 | DexterTheDragon | something like that |
| 16:03.12 | DexterTheDragon | usually the salt is a sha1 has of random data |
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| 16:03.22 | DexterTheDragon | s/has/hash/ |
| 16:03.43 | mgeary | if it's random, and you don't store it, it's kind of hard to validate against... |
| 16:03.48 | mgeary | or do you store it? |
| 16:04.08 | DexterTheDragon | we only have one salt for the whole application |
| 16:04.14 | mgeary | ah |
| 16:05.03 | DexterTheDragon | its really just to provide a little extra security |
| 16:05.36 | DexterTheDragon | and all the work is done back in the framework so I never have to worry about adding it before I hash or whatnot |
| 16:05.40 | carmony | yeah, well I've had my DB compromised due to a mysql injection attack before where I had a user list compromised. |
| 16:05.47 | carmony | and the guy was able to crack the simple passwords |
| 16:05.52 | carmony | so the salt would prevent that' |
| 16:06.07 | DexterTheDragon | yeah |
| 16:06.43 | carmony | they would have to compromise the salt to be able to use a rainbow attack |
| 16:12.30 | Utah_Dave | carmony: the attacker would have to recreate his entire rainbow table with your hash |
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| 16:26.19 | carmony | Utah_Dave: You're right. The rainbow would be useless. A compromised salt would only help in cracking the password faster. |
| 16:48.05 | carmony | Ug, you can't change the visibility of a function to a strong visibilty in a child function... |
| 16:59.09 | tierra | that's why you use a different salt with every hash... are there really people that use the same salt for every hash? |
| 16:59.32 | wps | this conversation is making me hungry |
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| 17:22.33 | thebigdog | tierra, yes all the time |
| 17:25.31 | tierra | well, they need to learn to not do so, heh |
| 17:29.18 | thebigdog | hehe |
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| 17:36.15 | tonedevf | Any suggestions for an alternative to ksort() / krsort() that does the same thing but DOES NOT eliminate nodes with the same sort key? |
| 17:37.10 | tonedevf | perhaps i'm just too irritated to understand the rationale behind ksort() throwing away nodes. any insight would be appreciated. |
| 17:38.31 | thebigdog | what type of keys you using? |
| 17:39.28 | tonedevf | strings |
| 17:39.58 | tierra | throwing away nodes? |
| 17:40.02 | thebigdog | you might check out asort |
| 17:40.17 | thebigdog | arsort |
| 17:40.43 | thebigdog | but those do not sort on keys |
| 17:40.53 | thebigdog | or you might need to create your own user defined sort |
| 17:41.50 | thebigdog | but i did not think it would eleminate keys |
| 17:41.54 | tierra | I'm still stuck on the "same sort key" part of the question... you can't have two keys with the same value |
| 17:42.16 | tierra | maybe I just didn't understand that question |
| 17:42.46 | tonedevf | therein lies the subtlety ... just bouncing the question of y'all gives me a few ideas. |
| 17:43.43 | tonedevf | it's an array of objects so i figured several objects could have some identical members, eg a person object's Last Name |
| 17:44.08 | tonedevf | but sorting the array of objects on those 'keys' seems to eliminate duplicated |
| 17:44.12 | tonedevf | *duplicates |
| 17:44.38 | tierra | well, all arrays can't have duplicate keys... that's why it's a key |
| 17:44.57 | tierra | it's not the fault of the sort function |
| 17:45.44 | tonedevf | stop! i'm embarrassed enough ; ) |
| 17:45.49 | tierra | hehe |
| 17:54.26 | thebigdog | tonedevf, i would be hesitant to sort objects with arrays |
| 17:56.44 | tonedevf | i found the bug |
| 18:00.33 | tonedevf | so in creating an array of objects for use in UI display, etc, the code checks for the user's sorting prefs and builds the array of objects using a key based on the sorting criteria (in this case the key is either date_created or name). then the user's sort order (ascending/descending) controls the ksort on that array of objects. |
| 18:00.33 | tonedevf | I'm going to fix the bug by appending a known-unique value to the array's key so that they are either date_created+uid or name+uid. This'll fix 'er |
| 18:02.33 | tonedevf | as tierra so bluntly put it, ya can't have duplicate keys. so i'll fix it such that there won't be : ) |
| 18:03.48 | tonedevf | clearly i need to do my coding during the day, rather than late at night |
| 18:04.10 | mindjuju | ~yow |
| 18:04.43 | thebigdog | you need an object hash is all |
| 18:05.03 | tonedevf | oh? |
| 18:06.40 | thebigdog | but alas php does not have them |
| 18:06.59 | thebigdog | you could create them in the constructor though |
| 18:08.29 | tonedevf | I'll have to give that a try when i have more time. It sounds much more elegant |
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| 18:11.13 | tierra | seems like an unusual approach to sorting an array... why not just build an array that doesn't use the value you want to sort on as a key |
| 18:11.21 | tierra | and sorting by value, not by key |
| 18:15.06 | tonedevf | for some reason i was having trouble sorting on value when the value is an object and the sorting criteria is that object's member. |
| 18:15.12 | tonedevf | but i don't recall now the details |
| 18:16.03 | tonedevf | is this something you deal with often? |
| 18:16.10 | thebigdog | yeah dont sort an object like an array |
| 18:16.49 | thebigdog | why are you storing your objects in an array |
| 18:17.21 | tonedevf | i have to build an array of objects anyway to display them in the UI |
| 18:18.05 | tonedevf | not 'storing' in any long-term sense... just for that request |
| 18:19.29 | tonedevf | what alternative do you suggest, thebigdog? |
| 18:21.26 | thebigdog | so you are just adding them to an array |
| 18:21.43 | thebigdog | like $gui[0] = $obj1; ? |
| 18:24.41 | tonedevf | yep |
| 18:26.25 | mindjuju | @beandog - scary - http://www.movietrailertalk.com/2008/09/new-dragonball-movie-trailer-screencaps/ |
| 18:26.38 | beandog | dragonball? |
| 18:27.13 | mindjuju | who knew? |
| 18:27.14 | tonedevf | leaving objects out for a moment, how would y'all sort a two-dimensional array (or array or arrays) buy an arbitrary value? it's darn near the same problem. it just seems easier to be a little creative with what the parent array uses as a key, then use a php builtin function to sort that array |
| 18:27.46 | beandog | what in the world is dragonball |
| 18:27.51 | tonedevf | ...as opposed to writing custom sort routines for each data structure |
| 18:27.58 | mindjuju | beandog - anime |
| 18:28.07 | beandog | ah, no wonder |
| 18:28.10 | mindjuju | i hate all this "cashing in" on my childhood memories |
| 18:28.23 | mgeary | tonedevf: there's a way to sort one array based on another array. That's a useful trick for doing really wacky sorts |
| 18:28.25 | mindjuju | now, if they were going to do something with Jan Brady or something, that'd be different |
| 18:28.27 | mgeary | checking for the command |
| 18:29.15 | mindjuju | oh wait, no jan, it was marsha that was the hotty |
| 18:29.37 | mgeary | tonedevf: or you can use this: http://us.php.net/manual/en/function.uksort.php |
| 18:30.13 | mgeary | here's what i was thinking of: http://us.php.net/manual/en/function.array-multisort.php |
| 18:30.17 | mgeary | check example 1 |
| 18:30.31 | mgeary | it's a really great trick, when you need it |
| 18:34.24 | tonedevf | neat! |
| 18:34.37 | tonedevf | thanks for the tip |
| 18:40.11 | tonedevf | : ) |
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| 19:01.48 | SunSparc | Wow, major netsplit in here. |
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| 19:09.44 | beandog | SunSparc, dont worry, Im back |
| 19:09.49 | beandog | ~console |
| 19:09.50 | jbot | from memory, console is the opposite of x |
| 19:10.45 | SunSparc | beandog: Whew! Good thing. :) |
| 19:12.36 | mindjuju | i like it when we netsplit and i'm suddenly in the channel with like 2 other people that's it, then we split again and everybody is back. real transcendental |
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| 19:28.39 | sunspec | if i do forms with php and it sends the data back somewhere in an email, is there anyway to have the email be encrypted and not in plain text? |
| 19:29.35 | _psychic_ | pgp, maybe |
| 19:34.10 | jsmith-busy | sunspec: Sure... there are quite a few encryption functions in PHP |
| 19:35.33 | sunspec | I feel like i'm thinking about this all wrong. I am trying to figure out the best way to get data from a form from point A to point B securely. It has to be secure cause it has account numbers and socials. |
| 19:36.05 | mgeary | what a sec... we've got SunSparc and sunspec?! |
| 19:36.16 | sunspec | ha |
| 19:36.20 | sunspec | that is crazy |
| 19:37.13 | SunSparc | Not related. |
| 19:37.21 | sunspec | No i didn |
| 19:37.50 | sunspec | name myself after a workstation |
| 19:38.15 | SunSparc | :) |
| 19:41.27 | _psychic_ | email isn't very secure, I'd use an SSL API between two apps |
| 19:41.29 | fungus | sunspec: your options will depend on the capabilities of point B |
| 19:41.58 | wps | I am building a website for a client that wants to accept payments (doctor's office). |
| 19:42.07 | wps | I have never built something that takes credit cards before |
| 19:42.14 | wps | they already have a merchant account set up |
| 19:42.23 | wps | does anyone have any pointers on where I should start? |
| 19:42.27 | wps | a good tutorial? |
| 19:42.48 | fungus | Have you already picked your payment gateway? |
| 19:43.09 | wps | no, but I'll probably use Authorize.Net |
| 19:43.16 | wps | (unless you have a better recommendation) |
| 19:43.34 | fungus | First check with your merchant account to find out what gateways are supported. |
| 19:43.52 | fungus | authorize.net has great tutorials and docs on how to use their API. |
| 19:44.05 | mindjuju | some merchant accounts will have a processing portal |
| 19:44.05 | wps | cool |
| 19:44.10 | wps | k |
| 19:44.14 | wps | thanksâ¦Â I will start there |
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| 19:52.42 | mgeary | outsource it to us! :) |
| 19:53.27 | wps | what would you need to give me a quote? |
| 19:53.44 | mgeary | want to PM me the details? |
| 19:54.01 | wps | well, I don't have any more details at this time |
| 19:54.04 | mgeary | heh |
| 19:54.14 | mgeary | some things to ask-- |
| 19:54.27 | mgeary | * are recurring charges likely? |
| 19:54.30 | wps | I can after I get the details on who they got the merchant account through (it's a local bank) |
| 19:54.37 | mgeary | * do customers need to see their order history? |
| 19:54.46 | mgeary | * do admins need to be able to issue refunds? |
| 19:55.23 | mgeary | at the simplest, we can just take customer/card details, process a transaction, and record a response |
| 19:55.23 | wps | excellent questions :) |
| 19:55.56 | mgeary | at the more complex end, we can do recurring charges, allow users to manage multiple billing profiles, allow refunds/voids, allow customer order history reports, etc. |
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| 20:55.34 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v tierra] by ChanServ |
| 21:06.56 | mindjuju | ~thebigdog++ |
| 21:07.03 | mindjuju | ~dexterthedragon++ |
| 21:07.09 | mindjuju | ~tierra++ |
| 21:07.13 | DexterTheDragon | rawk |
| 21:07.13 | thebigdog | well ty mindjuju |
| 21:07.21 | mgeary | ~karma thebigdog |
| 21:07.21 | jbot | thebigdog has karma of 8 |
| 21:07.21 | thebigdog | but you should not have done that for the others |
| 21:07.24 | mgeary | woah |
| 21:07.27 | thebigdog | they are followers |
| 21:07.30 | mgeary | ~karma mgeary |
| 21:07.30 | jbot | mgeary has karma of 8 |
| 21:07.32 | mgeary | whew |
| 21:07.45 | DexterTheDragon | ~karma DexterTheDragon |
| 21:07.45 | jbot | dexterthedragon has karma of 2 |
| 21:07.48 | DexterTheDragon | oh... |
| 21:09.11 | olds | I asked yesterday without any response, so I'll try this again today :) |
| 21:09.18 | olds | anyone have opinions/first hand experience about dealing with tier four and/or viawest as colo facilities? |
| 21:10.50 | _psychic_ | we use viawest |
| 21:10.56 | _psychic_ | for a few things |
| 21:11.46 | olds | yea, that's what we're leaning towards |
| 21:12.23 | mgeary | we've only used Fibernet |
| 21:12.30 | mgeary | have 2 machines there |
| 21:12.33 | olds | we currently use xmission |
| 21:12.39 | thebigdog | xmisison |
| 21:12.41 | olds | looking at getting a 1/2 cabinet |
| 21:14.49 | _psychic_ | no complaints |
| 21:15.08 | _psychic_ | no idea about pricing and the like, as I just get in the building through a port number :) |
| 21:16.02 | olds | we have quotes from all the various companies |
| 21:16.10 | olds | tier four is the cheapest |
| 21:16.14 | olds | then xmission |
| 21:16.23 | olds | viawest is the most expensive |
| 21:18.31 | mgeary | hahahaha: http://ccinsider.comedycentral.com/cc_insider/2008/09/jon-stewart-ann.html |
| 21:18.42 | mgeary | ~Jon Stewart++ |
| 21:18.43 | olds | viawest 1/2 cab with 1mbps burstable to 10mbps measured at the 95th is ~$700 |
| 21:20.19 | _psychic_ | pretty impressive facility though |
| 21:20.25 | _psychic_ | we needed it for something that can't die |
| 21:20.29 | olds | orem or salt lake? |
| 21:20.36 | _psychic_ | Lindon-ish |
| 21:20.40 | olds | ahh |
| 21:20.46 | olds | there's one in cottonwood as well |
| 21:21.44 | tierra | olds: optikal has stuff in ViaWest, and synic/xilch used to have stuff at XM that they moved to ViaWest |
| 21:22.02 | olds | yea, I'm aware of the move to viawest |
| 21:22.40 | olds | I'm just not wild about xmission *shrug* |
| 21:23.42 | tierra | I've always thought XM bandwidth was unreasonable |
| 21:25.22 | olds | the $$$ |
| 21:25.24 | olds | ? |
| 21:28.10 | tierra | yeah |
| 21:28.24 | tierra | the price has actually gone up from what it used to be 3 years ago |
| 21:28.50 | tierra | (when I had last compared someone's quote to one I had from 3 years ago) |
| 21:29.07 | tierra | the price on bandwidth anyway, not other stuff |
| 21:29.25 | tierra | and I thought it was excessive 3 years ago |
| 21:29.59 | olds | looks like for 1mbps sustained measured at the 95th it's $160/mo |
| 21:30.14 | olds | for a 1/2 cabinet anyway |
| 21:30.34 | tierra | I only got prices for metered though |
| 21:31.18 | tierra | and definitely not a quote for a 1/2 cabinet |
| 21:31.46 | olds | hmm actually xmission is more expensive than viawest |
| 21:31.53 | olds | now that I fully look at this quote |
| 21:32.02 | olds | $300/20amp circuit |
| 21:32.07 | olds | $300 for the cabinet |
| 21:32.17 | tierra | ouch |
| 21:32.23 | olds | only $445 for the same at viawest |
| 21:32.38 | olds | connection is 250/mo at viawest though |
| 21:33.25 | tierra | XM does do some major discounts though for longer term contracts |
| 21:34.47 | olds | price is not a huge factor in this |
| 21:35.17 | olds | since they're all roughly the same in price |
| 21:36.43 | *** join/#uphpu romanovic (i=romanovi@wireless566.wireless.utah.edu) |
| 21:49.00 | PoeticIntensity | nice link, mgeary.... |
| 21:49.59 | PoeticIntensity | seeing clips like that makes me even more sick at today's politicians. |
| 21:50.27 | mgeary | crazy |
| 21:50.33 | PoeticIntensity | I believe such clips could be gathered from either side. |
| 21:50.44 | mgeary | i'm sure that's true |
| 21:50.49 | PoeticIntensity | seems like they say whatever is convenient for them at that moment. |
| 21:50.55 | PoeticIntensity | *sigh* |
| 21:52.59 | PoeticIntensity | seems to remind me of a scripture - 2N 28:8. |
| 21:54.04 | PoeticIntensity | heh... not to bring religion into a political discussion in a PHP IRC room..... |
| 21:56.16 | PoeticIntensity | now, a bit more on-topic.... |
| 21:56.23 | PoeticIntensity | I have a Regex question... |
| 21:57.14 | PoeticIntensity | amidst rambling text, I have a situation where I need to find this ">Some random text<" which I need to delete. |
| 21:57.30 | PoeticIntensity | and delete whatever is found between the ">" and "<" |
| 21:57.43 | PoeticIntensity | any takers? |
| 21:58.03 | mgeary | sure |
| 21:58.20 | PoeticIntensity | oh... hold on... |
| 21:58.26 | PoeticIntensity | I think I just thought of an easier way... |
| 21:58.33 | mgeary | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:58.34 | PoeticIntensity | (before ya go to the trouble, mgeary) |
| 21:58.38 | PoeticIntensity | ah. |
| 21:58.41 | PoeticIntensity | maybe I'll do that. |
| 21:58.42 | PoeticIntensity | :) |
| 21:58.43 | PoeticIntensity | hehe.. |
| 21:59.07 | mgeary | that assumes that "some random text" never has a naturally-occuring "<" |
| 21:59.20 | PoeticIntensity | which it won't. |
| 22:01.33 | mgeary | famous last words... |
| 22:04.27 | PoeticIntensity | no doubt... |
| 22:04.30 | PoeticIntensity | looks like it's working, though. |
| 22:04.54 | mgeary | yup |
| 22:34.12 | itimber | I'm out.... later guys |
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| 22:46.20 | *** part/#uphpu mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
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| 23:37.26 | mindjuju | fungus, you around? |
| 23:38.42 | mindjuju | dexterthedragon |
| 23:39.02 | fungus | I'm still here |
| 23:40.19 | mindjuju | just wondering how i can obtain an ipsec daemon |
| 23:40.36 | fungus | eek, what for? |
| 23:40.48 | beandog | he's starting his own country |
| 23:40.56 | fungus | setting up an ipsec vpn is still quite painful |
| 23:41.03 | mindjuju | well, trying to log in to sonicwall |
| 23:41.11 | mindjuju | no linux client available |
| 23:41.30 | mindjuju | i heard that openswan could do it, but then i found kvpn and it said it could do it |
| 23:41.43 | mindjuju | the key behind everything seems to be ipsec |
| 23:42.00 | fungus | (free|open)swan are painful |
| 23:42.02 | mindjuju | supposedly, i can connect to the sonicwall vpn if my client uses or allows for ipsec |
| 23:42.24 | fungus | It can do it, but it will take some effort |
| 23:42.24 | mindjuju | bummer |
| 23:42.45 | beandog | http://us2.php.net/manual/en/function.connection-timeout.php |
| 23:42.49 | beandog | theres an interesting function |
| 23:43.41 | mindjuju | fungus, is there any other way i can connect to my sonicwall? |
| 23:43.47 | fungus | mindjuju: you may be able to use vpnc |
| 23:43.50 | mindjuju | i've been googling for like a week now |
| 23:43.55 | fungus | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=289770 |
| 23:43.58 | mindjuju | k, i'll try that |
| 23:44.15 | thebigdog | mindjuju, the cisco vpn client might work with sonicwall |
| 23:47.54 | fungus | vpnc is an open source Cisco compatible VPN client that's easy to use. It may work with your sonicwall. |
| 23:48.40 | fungus | or you can try openswan, someone already did the hard work: http://wiki.openswan.org/index.php/Openswan/SonicWall |
| 23:51.32 | fungus | ipk? aren't those for openwrt? |
| 23:51.42 | fungus | Are you trying to do this on a linksys router or something? |
| 23:52.00 | mindjuju | don't know, was just trying to download openswan, and when i got there, that seemed to be the only file for me |
| 23:52.31 | fungus | No, you are running ubuntu, no downloading for you. "apt-get install openswan" |