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| 03:33.54 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v influx^^] by ChanServ |
| 04:02.10 | influx^^ | 'lo? |
| 04:02.33 | influx^^ | $_POST['variablename'] proper still? |
| 04:02.54 | burnin | proper? |
| 04:04.06 | influx^^ | looks like it is |
| 04:04.24 | influx^^ | Oh, I was just wondering if it has been deprecated or not in 5.0 |
| 04:04.32 | burnin | ah, no |
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| 05:34.52 | influx^^ | w 4 |
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| 13:42.23 | *** topic/#UPHPU by mindjuju -> Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org |
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| 13:43.30 | bwelker | hey mindjuju |
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| 14:54.12 | timinator | morning guys |
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| 15:29.18 | mgeary | okay, you iPhone users-- |
| 15:29.26 | mgeary | this is your chance to try to convince me |
| 15:30.04 | mgeary | i just got called as my ward's Executive Secretary, and i'm thinking something like an iPhone might help me juggle scheduling, phone #s, etc. |
| 15:30.54 | mindjuju | poor devil |
| 15:31.04 | mgeary | totally |
| 15:31.35 | mindjuju | you literrally turn into a bounty hunter |
| 15:37.29 | josephscott | common now, not that bad, I survived doing it for a few years |
| 15:39.32 | SunSparc | mgeary: what can I say that would convince you? What specific functionality do you need? |
| 15:39.47 | SunSparc | mgeary: Do you use iCal? |
| 15:40.54 | mgeary | yes, somewhat |
| 15:41.35 | mgeary | how easy is it to type on? |
| 15:42.42 | SunSparc | mgeary: It is as easy as you let it be. It is a very intuitive keyboard. I can type pretty fast on it. |
| 15:42.47 | mgeary | how's the battery life? |
| 15:43.03 | mindjuju | note in Josephscott 's comments, he didn't deny the truth, but maybe the intensity |
| 15:43.07 | SunSparc | If you use iCal for all your scheduling then everything syncs automagically with the iPhone |
| 15:43.10 | mindjuju | :) |
| 15:43.11 | herlo | josephscott: hey |
| 15:43.31 | josephscott | herlo: hi |
| 15:43.54 | mgeary | SunSparc: how little can i get away with paying? It'd have to include a non-iphone plan for my wife |
| 15:43.56 | SunSparc | mgeary: I have had my iphone for over a year now and have never really run into an issue with my phone dying if I charge it every night. Although, I can often get away with only charging it every couple of days. |
| 15:44.30 | josephscott | mgeary: you could always just got buy a cheap plain PDA |
| 15:44.41 | mgeary | josephscott: can you recommend one? |
| 15:44.48 | mgeary | well |
| 15:44.56 | josephscott | I just used the handspring that I had since 99 |
| 15:45.19 | mgeary | yeah, but the internet accessibility of a smartphone is appealing |
| 15:45.27 | SunSparc | mgeary: Just pick whatever plan works for you, add $10/month for your wife's phone and $30/month for a data plan for the iPhone. |
| 15:46.53 | mgeary | $70/month for 450 minutes? that's pretty steep, isn't it? |
| 15:47.05 | mgeary | esp. when you add $30 for data |
| 15:47.11 | mgeary | http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/specials/iphone-info.jsp |
| 15:47.55 | herlo | josephscott: so I see the website has been updated. I'm planning on blogging about it later today |
| 15:48.01 | SunSparc | mgeary: I guess it depends on what you are willing to pay. I am willing to pay it because I love what I get for that price. |
| 15:48.36 | SunSparc | Then again, I forked over $600 for the initial iPhone and would pay the same price again. It is worth every penny. |
| 15:48.42 | josephscott | herlo: great, thanks. I've got a number of people I'm going to be pinging about WordCamp Utah this week |
| 15:49.24 | SunSparc | mgeary: As with anything Apple, it is hard to convince you until you actually try it. |
| 15:49.38 | mgeary | it's not the Apple angle i've got concerns with |
| 15:49.42 | mgeary | it's the AT&T |
| 15:50.08 | SunSparc | I have been using AT&T since 98 and have had not complaint. |
| 15:50.27 | SunSparc | no complaint |
| 15:50.35 | herlo | josephscott: are you planning on blogging it soon as well? |
| 15:50.38 | SunSparc | I am not sure why people do not like AT&T |
| 15:50.46 | herlo | I'd rather not blog the same day you do |
| 15:51.24 | josephscott | herlo: http://joseph.randomnetworks.com/archives/2008/08/07/wordcamp-utah-registration-is-now-open/ |
| 15:52.01 | herlo | how come it didn't aggregate on utosp? |
| 15:52.11 | herlo | or did I miss it? |
| 15:52.32 | herlo | wow, you got alex king? |
| 15:52.36 | herlo | nice! |
| 15:52.40 | josephscott | no idea and yes |
| 15:53.03 | herlo | hrmm |
| 15:53.07 | josephscott | yeah, looking forward to meeting alex for the first time |
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| 15:54.56 | josephscott | herlo: what's utosp? |
| 15:55.37 | herlo | utah open source planet |
| 15:55.40 | herlo | planet.utos.org |
| 15:55.51 | herlo | its a feed aggregator, I swear you were on it... |
| 15:56.05 | herlo | its also at http://openclue.org, run by gabe gunderson |
| 15:56.47 | herlo | josephscott: oh, you are not aggregated. That's why! |
| 16:01.31 | mgeary | so how do people with jailbroken iphones get just the iphone? |
| 16:02.04 | herlo | josephscott: are you planning on blogging from utah.wordcamp.org? |
| 16:02.08 | jsmith | mgeary: They don't anymore |
| 16:02.13 | SunSparc | mgeary: I cannot help you there. |
| 16:03.32 | josephscott | herlo: not really, just details on the event |
| 16:03.56 | herlo | k, I won't give gabe that info then... |
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| 17:06.06 | *** join/#uphpu Trevyn (n=Trevyn@70-0-114-212.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 17:06.17 | Trevyn | hey guys |
| 17:06.25 | Trevyn | I got an article about Fiber.net |
| 17:06.34 | Trevyn | Keep in mind I love the management guys |
| 17:06.45 | Trevyn | I just got a pickle with one of the techs over on the vhosts group |
| 17:06.51 | Trevyn | even then, still nice guys |
| 17:06.52 | Trevyn | http://www.utahwebstandards.com/fibernet-virtual-hosting-booo/ |
| 17:07.53 | herlo | Trevyn: are you coming to UTOSC 2008? |
| 17:08.14 | wps | Trevyn: were you ever going to remove my IRC log from your website? |
| 17:08.42 | herlo | mgeary: hehe |
| 17:08.53 | mgeary | juuuust kidding! |
| 17:08.58 | Trevyn | herlo: I am not sure. wps, what? |
| 17:09.11 | herlo | Trevyn: you should... |
| 17:09.12 | wps | I'm still waiting for you to remove this from your website: http://www.utahwebstandards.com/uphpu-response-to-review/ |
| 17:09.16 | herlo | on both accounts... |
| 17:09.25 | Trevyn | herlo: Fiber.net asked me if they should go |
| 17:09.33 | Trevyn | I told them yes it would be a good thing for them. |
| 17:09.34 | herlo | Trevyn: fiber.net is a sponsor |
| 17:09.47 | Trevyn | yeah I know |
| 17:10.06 | herlo | I remember talking with them...and you |
| 17:10.18 | Trevyn | Yeah they are good guys. |
| 17:10.38 | Trevyn | Joe over there pisses me off :) |
| 17:10.51 | Trevyn | the guy who setup ther direct admin vhosting service |
| 17:11.03 | herlo | k |
| 17:12.31 | wps | Trevyn, so? |
| 17:12.48 | Trevyn | wps: what? |
| 17:12.54 | Trevyn | You want me to remove your stuff? |
| 17:12.57 | wps | when are you going to take that down? |
| 17:13.33 | Trevyn | No one reads it. Im curiouse as to why it bothers you. |
| 17:13.48 | wps | I don't care if anyone reads it and why should it matter why it bothers me? |
| 17:14.30 | Trevyn | wps: I dont work for you. |
| 17:14.33 | *** part/#uphpu Trevyn (n=Trevyn@70-0-114-212.area1.spcsdns.net) |
| 17:15.25 | mgeary | sigh |
| 17:15.39 | wps | true, you don't work for meâ¦Â I can't see anyone ever hiring you |
| 17:17.08 | wps | but what does that have to do with you being mature and professional and removing something from your website that I said to you in the privacy of our chat? |
| 17:17.46 | DexterTheDragon | I think he's gone...... |
| 17:17.50 | wps | I know |
| 17:18.01 | herlo | wps: send him a cease and desist |
| 17:18.13 | mgeary | better: send his ISP a takedown ;) |
| 17:18.30 | SunSparc | wps: Actually, everything on this channel is logged and published. |
| 17:18.40 | herlo | sure, but pm's aren't |
| 17:18.41 | wps | it's not that importantâ¦Â his immaturity and unprofessionalism just boggles my mind |
| 17:18.54 | wps | I know, SunSparc, but Google doesn't index jobot's logs |
| 17:19.08 | SunSparc | Ah, that is good. |
| 17:19.32 | wps | it's really not that big of a dealâ¦Â it's more the principle of what he is doing with his website over what the content of that post it |
| 17:19.33 | SunSparc | Being logged is not my favorite feature here. |
| 17:19.34 | fungus | that is wrong, google does index them. |
| 17:19.36 | fungus | http://www.google.com/search?q=trevyn+uphpu |
| 17:19.38 | wps | s/it/is/ |
| 17:19.51 | wps | those are the mailing list logs |
| 17:19.53 | *** join/#uphpu Paldimo (n=BBertola@0006yE-Yn.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 17:20.02 | fungus | Look at results 3 and 4 |
| 17:20.03 | wps | wait⦠|
| 17:20.12 | fungus | and 7 and 8 |
| 17:20.30 | wps | wowâ¦Â Google can read the contents of a gzip? |
| 17:20.32 | wps | insane |
| 17:20.46 | mgeary | psh. that's easy |
| 17:20.49 | fungus | Of course they can |
| 17:20.51 | wps | so it is indexed |
| 17:21.25 | wps | like I said thoughâ¦Â I do not have anything against anyone reading what I said thereâ¦Â I didn't say anything I am ashamed off |
| 17:21.26 | *** join/#uphpu _psychic_ (n=_psychic@75.148.101.137) |
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| 17:21.33 | wps | my point is that I do not want to be associated with his website in the slightest |
| 17:21.43 | fungus | Trevyn is just a punk. |
| 17:21.52 | wps | he is a negative and unprofessional person and I do not want to be associated with him |
| 17:21.53 | fungus | Anyone that reads it will know it very quickly |
| 17:21.57 | wps | of course |
| 17:22.19 | wps | it doesn't keep my up at night |
| 17:22.23 | wps | s/my/me/ |
| 17:27.05 | mindjuju | from his pics and text i've read that he's posted (not on his blog), i think he's quite mild mannered |
| 17:27.43 | mindjuju | sort of that Internet dual-identity syndrome |
| 17:27.49 | herlo | mindjuju: everyone hates my 'ugly mug' on the UTOSC program :) |
| 17:27.51 | SunSparc | Yep |
| 17:28.03 | SunSparc | Hiding behind a screen relaxes inhibitions. |
| 17:28.16 | mindjuju | herlo - we totally need a good pic there |
| 17:28.24 | mindjuju | was just grabbing something for the interim |
| 17:28.29 | mindjuju | plus, it's not high enough res |
| 17:28.32 | herlo | mindjuju: hehe, sure |
| 17:28.33 | mindjuju | you got something? |
| 17:28.55 | herlo | mindjuju: just my hackergotchi |
| 17:29.03 | mindjuju | dat coo, send it over |
| 17:29.44 | mindjuju | so is the center tag officially deprecated or am i just being lazy for using it? |
| 17:29.56 | wps | do not use a center tag |
| 17:30.08 | herlo | mindjuju: http://herlo.fedorapeople.org/files/clintsavage.png |
| 17:30.16 | mindjuju | yeah, had a feeling it was both wps |
| 17:30.16 | wps | eek⦠that's like using <blink> :) |
| 17:30.47 | wps | that's kind of creeping seeing someone's head without a neck |
| 17:31.13 | herlo | wps: lol |
| 17:31.16 | wps | Google is a sponsor? |
| 17:31.24 | herlo | wps: yup, has been both years |
| 17:31.39 | wps | impressive |
| 17:31.52 | herlo | thank you |
| 17:31.57 | herlo | wps: you attending? |
| 17:32.07 | wps | how does one get to http://utosc.com ? |
| 17:32.31 | herlo | what do you mean? |
| 17:32.40 | wps | it redirects me to the conference site |
| 17:32.44 | herlo | it redirects to 2008.utosc.com |
| 17:32.45 | wps | anyway to view the normal home page? |
| 17:32.47 | herlo | yes, that's the point |
| 17:32.57 | herlo | try utos.org if you want our blog |
| 17:33.23 | wps | no, I'm not planning on coming. It would be fun, but I don't have time |
| 17:33.34 | wps | ah, I see EnticeLabs got you |
| 17:34.00 | wps | I can't even make it to UPHPU meetings :) |
| 17:34.20 | wps | I'm already stretched too thin |
| 17:34.27 | wps | and I'm a month behind on two side projects |
| 17:34.39 | mindjuju | wps, that's what scares me about having 2 children |
| 17:34.45 | mindjuju | not that we're expecting |
| 17:34.50 | mindjuju | but we're trying |
| 17:35.15 | wps | I don't have any time to even touch the computer at home anymore |
| 17:35.18 | mindjuju | macnewbold, you have 3, don't you? |
| 17:35.43 | macnewbold | 3 what? |
| 17:35.46 | macnewbold | oh, kids |
| 17:35.48 | wps | computers |
| 17:35.48 | mgeary | that third kid is the kicker |
| 17:35.48 | macnewbold | I've got 4 now |
| 17:35.48 | mindjuju | children |
| 17:35.58 | mindjuju | 4! |
| 17:36.07 | macnewbold | 3 boys (7, 5, 2) and a baby girl, about 8 months old |
| 17:36.18 | mindjuju | oh yeah! |
| 17:36.30 | DexterTheDragon | its a baby factory over there |
| 17:36.40 | timinator | congrats macnewbold |
| 17:36.44 | timinator | kids rock |
| 17:36.54 | wps | absolutely |
| 17:36.56 | wps | I love being a father |
| 17:36.56 | timinator | I can't imagine my life w/o them |
| 17:36.57 | mindjuju | man, gotta be hard to juggle the time |
| 17:37.12 | wps | you just have to make a decision |
| 17:37.13 | wps | you can't do both |
| 17:37.21 | wps | you pick one or the other |
| 17:37.42 | mindjuju | yup |
| 17:37.47 | timinator | you have to make your time count |
| 17:37.53 | timinator | on everything |
| 17:38.31 | mindjuju | yeah, i need to get down on the floor and play more with legos with me boy |
| 17:38.41 | mindjuju | did that on sunday, twas fun |
| 17:38.55 | wps | it's been rough these past two months because of our new one that cameâ¦Â takes all of my wife's time |
| 17:39.06 | herlo | wps: well, I can try |
| 17:39.28 | herlo | wps: we're considering removing enticelabs unless they come up with a javascript version soon |
| 17:39.36 | timinator | wps: you're at 2 now?? |
| 17:39.41 | wps | yup |
| 17:39.45 | timinator | nice |
| 17:39.49 | wps | so I'm on dinner-duty every night |
| 17:39.52 | mindjuju | she just delivered a couple of weeks ago, no? |
| 17:39.58 | wps | 7 weeks, yes |
| 17:40.04 | wps | and my son is already in 3-6 months clothes |
| 17:40.07 | wps | he's a big kid |
| 17:40.17 | mindjuju | :) |
| 17:40.19 | timinator | dang |
| 17:40.24 | timinator | that's awesome |
| 17:40.41 | wps | it's just hard when you have to come home from work and then cook dinner and then clean up, and then put the 2 year old to bedâ¦Â it's 9:30 by the time you're done |
| 17:41.00 | wps | barely time to even sit down at the computer before you need to go to bed |
| 17:41.11 | wps | or none if you want to spend a few minutes talking to your wife |
| 17:41.47 | wps | speaking of being a fatherâ¦Â I sure had a hard time yesterdayâ¦Â we lost our daughter's stuffed puppy at church |
| 17:41.51 | wps | it broke her heart |
| 17:41.58 | mindjuju | oh no! |
| 17:41.58 | wps | she has had it since she was born and never goes to bed without |
| 17:42.01 | wps | it |
| 17:42.16 | mindjuju | i gotta admit on that one... Tiff and I cheated |
| 17:42.18 | timinator | uh oh |
| 17:42.32 | wps | she was so upset that she wouldn't even let me sing her a goodnight song like we usually doâ¦Â she just kept crying saying that we had to go out and search for him |
| 17:42.35 | mindjuju | we got Corban hooked on a particular puppy, that is a beanie baby puppy |
| 17:42.42 | mindjuju | and every time we go to ihop, we buy another |
| 17:42.47 | wps | nice |
| 17:42.48 | mindjuju | we have a secret stash of about 10 |
| 17:42.52 | timinator | LOL |
| 17:42.56 | _psychic_ | smart |
| 17:42.59 | mindjuju | so when ever one gets lost, we "find" it |
| 17:43.00 | timinator | good thinking mindjuju |
| 17:43.05 | wps | we thought about buying extras a while back but the company only sells them in bulk |
| 17:43.10 | wps | and I didn't want to buy 60 |
| 17:43.29 | timinator | you're probably rethinking that decision now, wps |
| 17:43.33 | wps | yeah |
| 17:43.42 | wps | I'd buy 60 now to make her happy |
| 17:43.59 | mindjuju | hard to see your child cry |
| 17:44.08 | wps | she's carried that puppy everywhere since she was born |
| 17:44.11 | SunSparc | Crying is good for them |
| 17:44.57 | wps | sometimes, yes |
| 17:45.02 | wps | it's hard though when they don't understand |
| 17:45.09 | SunSparc | So true |
| 17:45.39 | wps | absolutely |
| 17:46.38 | SunSparc | I guess absolute love does not release you from the pain the comes with love. |
| 17:49.19 | wps | crud |
| 17:49.27 | wps | I wish I wasn't such a cronic deleter/clean freak |
| 17:49.28 | SunSparc | ~crud |
| 17:49.28 | jbot | [crud] Chalk River UnIdentified Deposits. Create Read Update Delete |
| 17:49.35 | wps | I just deleted a file I had spend the last hour creating |
| 17:50.16 | wps | TimeMachine rocks |
| 17:50.25 | SunSparc | :) |
| 17:50.45 | wps | unfortunately, I'm not running it at work⦠although I should be |
| 17:50.51 | wps | I keep everything on a file server though |
| 17:51.02 | *** join/#uphpu nei_rauni (n=nei@201.47.12.140.adsl.gvt.net.br) |
| 17:51.06 | wps | but for some reason had saved this doc to my desktop since I was just creating it quick |
| 17:51.08 | wps | arrrg |
| 17:51.10 | SunSparc | ~moment of silence for wps |
| 17:51.17 | wps | :) |
| 17:51.33 | SunSparc | You already nuked the Trash bin? |
| 17:51.44 | wps | I don't leave anything in the trash |
| 17:51.51 | wps | move it trashâ¦Â empty trash |
| 17:51.53 | wps | every time |
| 17:51.58 | SunSparc | Ouch |
| 17:52.12 | wps | command + delete, command + option + shift + delete |
| 17:52.18 | wps | in one motion |
| 17:52.18 | SunSparc | I make it a habit to leave my Trash alone for a couple of days at least. |
| 17:52.46 | timinator | couple hours here |
| 17:52.47 | SunSparc | Long enough for TimeMachine and Mozy to grab my stuff. |
| 17:53.13 | timinator | ~TimeMachine++ |
| 17:53.23 | SunSparc | ~TimeMachine++ |
| 17:53.38 | _psychic_ | while(1) ($Mozy--;) |
| 17:54.31 | SunSparc | Took a year though eheh |
| 17:55.12 | _psychic_ | Yeah I got tired of worrying and hassling about my worry- and hassle-free backup "service." |
| 17:55.32 | SunSparc | I do not blame you one bit |
| 17:55.47 | _psychic_ | time machine saved the day |
| 17:56.15 | SunSparc | ~Apple++ |
| 17:56.48 | _psychic_ | timinator: check out dirvish |
| 17:56.56 | timinator | k |
| 17:57.13 | SunSparc | timinator: Verio web servers come with something like that, standard. |
| 17:58.14 | timinator | SunSparc: that's cool |
| 17:59.02 | SunSparc | _psychic_: Cake question for you. Using find, can I do something like find(array('password' => !is_null)) to have find check to see if the password field is empty? Or do I have to use sql? |
| 17:59.13 | SunSparc | timinator: Yeah, has come in handy quite a few times. |
| 17:59.22 | _psychic_ | SunSparc: empty, or null? |
| 17:59.34 | SunSparc | Yes |
| 17:59.36 | SunSparc | :) |
| 17:59.41 | SunSparc | null is default |
| 18:00.09 | _psychic_ | mmm |
| 18:00.26 | _psychic_ | I can't remember |
| 18:00.37 | SunSparc | Ok, I will just play with it |
| 18:00.38 | _psychic_ | does 'password' => null |
| 18:00.39 | _psychic_ | work |
| 18:05.04 | SunSparc | Hmm, yes, it seems to. Cool :) |
| 18:05.21 | SunSparc | Even lets me do !null |
| 18:05.50 | _psychic_ | becuz it's awsum |
| 18:05.55 | SunSparc | lol |
| 18:05.57 | SunSparc | I agree |
| 18:06.02 | SunSparc | ~cake++ |
| 18:08.37 | SunSparc | Oh wait, I take that back, it does not like the !null, but it does not complain. Oh well, still helpful. |
| 18:39.20 | *** join/#uphpu romanovic (n=romanovi@m640e36d0.tmodns.net) |
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| 19:14.58 | thebigdog | mindjuju, you around? |
| 19:18.38 | orsonj | looks like he's asquare. |
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| 19:36.15 | thebigdog | no doubt orsonj |
| 19:36.18 | thebigdog | he is a slacker |
| 19:36.36 | bwelker | oh... i thought he was multiplied by himself |
| 19:38.43 | thebigdog | i have a windows question |
| 19:39.13 | thebigdog | oh nvm |
| 19:46.57 | mgeary | ~pity thebigdog |
| 19:46.58 | jbot | I pity da fool thebigdog! |
| 19:48.51 | unum | ~pity unum |
| 19:48.52 | jbot | I pity da fool unum! |
| 19:48.59 | unum | ~unum |
| 19:48.59 | jbot | it has been said that unum is perhaps DustinKyle |
| 19:49.47 | *** join/#uphpu Paldimo (n=BBertola@0006yE-Yn.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 19:52.35 | Paldimo | anyone know of any graphic design positions in SLC? |
| 19:52.53 | unum | I know someone whas been trying to get one for a year |
| 19:53.09 | Paldimo | find a graphic designer or find a job? |
| 19:53.37 | unum | find a job |
| 19:53.45 | Paldimo | lol.. thats promising... |
| 19:54.13 | unum | actually she's been applying all over the country |
| 19:54.16 | unum | and been having a hard time |
| 19:56.04 | _psychic_ | why? |
| 19:58.44 | unum | I don't know. she might be looking at web design places |
| 19:58.50 | unum | she doesn't have a lot of experience |
| 19:59.14 | unum | a newspaper did just hirer, but I think she's still looking else where |
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| 20:23.09 | mgeary | well, the Apple Store @ the Gateway has iPhones in-stock |
| 20:23.21 | mgeary | unlike everywhere in Utah Valley, apparently |
| 20:25.09 | mindjuju | ah the iphone |
| 20:25.21 | mgeary | yeah, i think i'm gonna do it |
| 20:25.56 | mindjuju | i want one, but the commitment is the back breaker for me |
| 20:26.01 | mindjuju | but i'm very jealous |
| 20:26.29 | mindjuju | + i'm secretly waiting for android |
| 20:27.04 | mgeary | well, it appears to be a $30/month additional cost for me, but that is also going to essentially double my minutes, as well as provide the data plan |
| 20:27.36 | mindjuju | as an ES, i think you'd prolly heavily use it |
| 20:27.52 | mgeary | maybe i can deduct the cost from my tithing... |
| 20:28.12 | mindjuju | never can tell with lightning |
| 20:32.58 | thebigdog | mindjuju, there is a great articles in LJ on andriod |
| 20:33.05 | thebigdog | this month of LJ is actually a really good one |
| 20:33.12 | thebigdog | probably because of the gentoo article |
| 20:33.17 | mindjuju | is it pro or con android? |
| 20:33.25 | thebigdog | pro |
| 20:33.35 | mindjuju | cool, i'll read it then |
| 20:33.56 | thebigdog | i'm actually looking forward too it |
| 20:34.00 | thebigdog | i would love to use it |
| 20:34.11 | thebigdog | but for me i am biased on it |
| 20:34.19 | mindjuju | i've noticed the tech news has been recently swamped with anti-google, anti-linux, and anti-OSS |
| 20:34.31 | mindjuju | i think it's part of new Microsoft strategy |
| 20:34.46 | mindjuju | show that the other guys have problems and show that Vista is decent |
| 20:38.05 | thebigdog | yeah |
| 20:41.01 | mgeary | does anyone know anything about WebIntelligence |
| 20:41.01 | mgeary | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:41.46 | jsmith | Sounds like a Layer 7 mess to me... |
| 20:46.06 | mgeary | jsmith: ?? |
| 20:46.22 | mgeary | you mean a 7-layer mess? :) |
| 20:46.41 | mgeary | a buddy of mine has a client who's using that, and my buddy is worried about impact on PHP |
| 20:47.15 | brasto | is there a replacement for hwscan in Suse 10x? It was in 9.x, but I can't find it in 10x... |
| 20:48.08 | jsmith | mgeary: If the PHP serves up something that WebIntelligence doesn't like, WebIntelligence will block and/or mangle it, I'm guessing. |
| 20:48.14 | jsmith | mgeary: (but that's just a guess) |
| 20:48.40 | mgeary | yeah |
| 20:56.06 | *** join/#uphpu mindjuju (n=mindjuju@76.8.222.130) |
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| 21:06.52 | mindjuju | ~fungus++ |
| 21:19.08 | mgeary | how idiotic is it that AT&T charges $.20 per text message if you don't have a text plan? Is that just for sending? or also for receiving? |
| 21:21.34 | fungus | sending |
| 21:22.06 | fungus | Don't forget to add the txting plan |
| 21:22.20 | mgeary | so you can receive unlimited messages? |
| 21:22.34 | fungus | IIRC, yes |
| 21:22.44 | mindjuju | i always forget what IIRC means |
| 21:22.48 | mindjuju | ~wtf IIRC |
| 21:22.49 | fungus | ~iirc |
| 21:22.50 | jbot | iirc is probably "if I recall correctly" |
| 21:22.52 | mgeary | if i recall correctly, it's.... |
| 21:22.55 | mindjuju | ah |
| 21:23.19 | mgeary | i seem to recall at one point tmobile charged $.05 for *receiving* texts, which motivated me to change my nagios setup |
| 21:23.24 | mgeary | but that was years ago |
| 21:24.39 | mgeary | http://www.wireless.att.com/learn/messaging-internet/messaging/faq.jsp#costs-im |
| 21:24.49 | mgeary | "You are charged $0.20 for each message you send and receive" |
| 21:24.52 | mgeary | asinine |
| 21:25.06 | mgeary | an unlimited data plan should include unlimited messages |
| 21:25.09 | fungus | That is for Instant Messages |
| 21:25.13 | fungus | not txting |
| 21:25.25 | mgeary | same diff, imo |
| 21:25.30 | fungus | nope |
| 21:25.32 | orsonj | when I was on the tmobile sidekick plan, it included unlimited texting also |
| 21:25.38 | fungus | IM = AIM, TXT = SMS |
| 21:25.53 | mgeary | well, right. but if you're paying for unlimited *data*... |
| 21:26.01 | orsonj | true |
| 21:26.09 | fungus | That's a silly attitude |
| 21:26.26 | fungus | txting is a service that rides on top of the data transfer |
| 21:26.57 | fungus | Not all ISPs that give you unlimited data, give you email or web hosting for free. |
| 21:27.19 | fungus | The price is asinine, but the fact they are charging at all is not. |
| 21:27.30 | mgeary | okay, maybe i'll concede that |
| 21:28.01 | *** join/#uphpu romanovic (n=romanovi@m0a0e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 21:28.17 | mgeary | but the more i look at it, the more it appears that going with an iphone is going to be a lot like paying $150/month for an iphone + a normal phone sharing 700 mins |
| 21:28.19 | mgeary | meh |
| 21:28.26 | wps | anyone know of any free IMAP providers that let you use your own domain? |
| 21:28.41 | jsmith | wps: Google |
| 21:28.44 | wps | (besides Google Apps For My Domain) |
| 21:28.48 | jsmith | wps: doh! |
| 21:28.49 | wps | Google email sucks |
| 21:28.53 | wps | I have had it |
| 21:28.57 | wps | and am looking for a replacement |
| 21:29.11 | wps | Google apps absolutely sucks |
| 21:29.14 | fungus | Except for todays big burp |
| 21:29.22 | wps | their implementation of IMAP is aweful |
| 21:29.25 | wps | today's blurp? |
| 21:29.36 | wps | if you use Gmail solely through their web interface, it's fine |
| 21:29.41 | fungus | Yes, tons of people's mailboxes were locked for a few minutes. |
| 21:29.41 | orsonj | I use 1&1 email for $12/yr |
| 21:29.50 | jsmith | wps: Gah! Who'd want to use their web interface? |
| 21:29.59 | wps | you got meâ¦Â I hate web mail |
| 21:30.11 | wps | but IMAP it's horribleâ¦Â their stupid way of doing "all mail" and crap instead of deleting things |
| 21:30.24 | fungus | Their IMAP implementation is different and takes getting used to. |
| 21:30.34 | fungus | I actually like it better than most. |
| 21:33.42 | wps | I don't care if they want to store my mail all in one pot with labels instead of individual mail folders, but their IMAP communication engine should communicate back and forth with a client as if it were in folders |
| 21:34.16 | fungus | It does... mostly |
| 21:34.59 | thebigdog | thebigdog email = postfix + dovecot |
| 21:34.59 | wps | mostly? |
| 21:34.59 | wps | hah |
| 21:35.00 | wps | barely |
| 21:35.41 | *** join/#uphpu bwelker (n=benjam@166.70.178.114) |
| 21:35.46 | fungus | gmail takes a very different perspective on email handling. If you don't get it, or don't like it, then you gotta go somewhere else. |
| 21:36.04 | wps | right, but the thing that scares me is that they are so big that it might become a standard |
| 21:36.57 | fungus | It's possible. There are lots of people that really like the new mindset google is promoting. (me included) |
| 21:37.07 | wps | if you hit delete in your client, it doesn't delete it, it moves it to all mailâ¦Â and then if you look in your clients deleted folder it's not there, you have to look in the IMAP folder /[gmail]/all mail⦠you can kind of get it to work by remapping your clients folders, but then it's outside of Google recommended settings and you may have problems |
| 21:37.36 | wps | well, like I said, I don't really care how the mail is stored, I just want a client that works with it |
| 21:37.43 | fungus | Google recommends remapping the folder |
| 21:37.45 | *** part/#uphpu bwelker (n=benjam@166.70.178.114) |
| 21:37.56 | wps | not from everything I have read |
| 21:38.11 | wps | their published recommended settings is that you do not move deleted to trash and do not store deleted on server |
| 21:38.44 | wps | and I hate how they scan what passes through their SMTP server and automatically put it in your sent items |
| 21:39.02 | wps | and I hate that they assume that you don't want duplicates and thus do not deliver messages that you post to a mailing list to yourself |
| 21:39.10 | fungus | http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=78892&ctx=sibling |
| 21:39.34 | thebigdog | that is true |
| 21:39.44 | wps | yup, that's that page that I was referring toâ¦Â it says to not save deleted messages on the server and to not move them to trash |
| 21:39.47 | timinator | ~flip thebigdog |
| 21:39.48 | jbot | ACTION gives thebigdog the .|.. ..|. |
| 21:40.03 | wps | but if I don't then when I hit delete in my client, they move to all mail instead of trash |
| 21:40.08 | fungus | So if you re-map your client's trash to [Gmail]/Trash then delete works like the old way |
| 21:40.13 | wps | and I want them to be in trash (both in my client and on google's server) |
| 21:40.23 | wps | right, but that is against their recommendations |
| 21:40.30 | fungus | So remap it and get the expected behavior |
| 21:40.52 | fungus | Right, it comes back to their new mindset of email. |
| 21:40.56 | wps | I have, but I have had some errors along the way and have assumed it was because I was not doing their recommended way |
| 21:41.03 | fungus | If you don't like it, you need to jump through some hoops. |
| 21:41.06 | timinator | geez.... this conversation reminds me of another conversation I had with a guy trying to move from a fax machine to email |
| 21:41.16 | fungus | timinator: lol |
| 21:41.20 | timinator | :) |
| 21:42.05 | wps | I am fine with the new mindset of email (in regards to how they store email on the server)â¦Â as long as it was not sold as IMAPâ¦Â it's notâ¦Â and connected to it via IMAP has issuesâ¦Â they need to label it as a different protocol and then set it up in my client as this new protocol |
| 21:42.47 | fungus | But it isn't a different protocol, it's a new way of handling mail. |
| 21:43.12 | fungus | Just like qmail is different from courier is different from dovecot |
| 21:43.16 | wps | meaning keeping everything forever, labeling, and searching? |
| 21:43.35 | fungus | Right, same protocol, just different handling with the same protocol |
| 21:44.09 | fungus | analogous to HTTP and URL structure |
| 21:44.19 | wps | kâ¦Â I guess the way to say it is that their IMAP support is not 100% |
| 21:44.41 | fungus | But that's not true either |
| 21:44.59 | fungus | The IMAP support is 100%, the mail handling is not the same as other implementations. |
| 21:45.32 | wps | well, if A, B, C, and D do it one way and E does it differently, I don't call that supporting the same standard |
| 21:45.33 | fungus | There are other IMAP servers that are different too. |
| 21:45.46 | wps | every IMAP I have used before moves the mail to trash when I delete it |
| 21:45.54 | fungus | Example Courier vs UW-IMAP |
| 21:46.02 | jsmith | wps: There is no standard |
| 21:46.07 | fungus | courier can handle folders with message and subfolders |
| 21:46.12 | fungus | UW-IMAP cannot |
| 21:46.37 | jsmith | wps: And just because the most popular players in the space typically all do it (just about) the same way doesn't mean theres a standard or consensus |
| 21:47.05 | wps | isn't majority a standard? |
| 21:47.13 | fungus | nope |
| 21:47.23 | fungus | IMAP is a standard protocol |
| 21:47.24 | timinator | right... that just means they all want to be compliant with what's out there |
| 21:47.32 | wps | okayâ¦Â whatever |
| 21:47.33 | fungus | but mail handling varies greatly |
| 21:47.37 | wps | I don't care what you call it |
| 21:47.43 | wps | standardâ¦Â majority |
| 21:47.48 | wps | there is a way that most IMAP works |
| 21:48.11 | jsmith | wps: Only the most general sense |
| 21:48.13 | wps | thus clients (Thunderbird, Mail.app) set up accounts and try to talk to the server according to the way that most servers work |
| 21:48.18 | fungus | There is a way that most mailservers handle mail, I agree. But that is not related to IMAP |
| 21:48.32 | wps | when someone doesn't follow the way that most do it, it makes it so that your client doesn't work |
| 21:48.43 | wps | kâ¦Â like I saidâ¦Â I don't are what you call it |
| 21:48.48 | jsmith | wps: I agree that GMail does things that are more radical than other IMAP servers, but that still doesn't mean theres a standard or consensus |
| 21:48.51 | wps | IMAP or "the way most do mail" |
| 21:49.20 | fungus | But IMAP is the protocol that the messages are transferred |
| 21:49.41 | fungus | Not how they are stored, or what happens to them when you change their attributes |
| 21:49.59 | wps | all I am saying is that my client only knows POP3 and "the way that most do IMAP" and that makes it so that I cannot work well with Gmail. My client doesn't do Gmail and I don't know any that do. (without hacking/remapping folders and praying) |
| 21:50.20 | fungus | Don't complain about Googles "IMAP implementation", complain about Google's "mail handling implementation" |
| 21:50.43 | wps | like I saidâ¦Â I don't care what you call itâ¦Â |
| 21:50.52 | wps | "the way google does mail" |
| 21:50.58 | fungus | I bet wps has never tried to interface an IMAP client to Exchange before. |
| 21:51.10 | fungus | Same protocol, different email handling. |
| 21:51.24 | fungus | You have to re-map folders and such |
| 21:52.17 | wps | I actually do have an IMAP account to an Exchange server |
| 21:52.20 | wps | that's how I get my work email |
| 21:52.33 | fungus | Right, and it is different too |
| 21:52.43 | wps | it sure works a lot better than gmail though |
| 21:53.16 | fungus | Right, it's different, but not quite as different as Gmail is. |
| 21:54.02 | fungus | Due to the great differences in mail server implementations, Clients have to provide a complicated list of "advanced settings" |
| 21:54.20 | jsmith | Yeah, like lemonade |
| 21:54.21 | fungus | these include remapping folders, changing deleting behavior, namespaces, etc. |
| 21:54.52 | jsmith | http://datatracker.ietf.org/drafts/draft-maes-lemonade-mobile-email/ |
| 21:57.22 | herlo | anyone else having issues with google mail? |
| 21:57.35 | _psychic_ | yeah it's down |
| 21:57.37 | fungus | herlo: yup, I have heard so far of at least 10 people |
| 21:57.54 | DexterTheDragon | it's still in beta! |
| 21:57.57 | fungus | lol |
| 21:58.00 | DexterTheDragon | you can't expect it work |
| 21:58.12 | DexterTheDragon | s/it/it to / |
| 22:02.18 | herlo | fungus: okay, good. Thought it was because I was on the slcc network |
| 22:20.22 | *** join/#uphpu pelaofeliz (n=PelaoFel@67.108.236.230) |
| 22:20.26 | *** join/#uphpu beandog (n=steve@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 22:20.26 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v beandog] by ChanServ |
| 22:40.05 | timinator | DexterTheDragon: LOL |
| 23:09.42 | *** part/#uphpu brasto (n=brasto@97-117-71-212.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 23:34.05 | timinator | I'm out.... later gents |
| 23:40.37 | thebigdog | dude im part of the black monday society |
| 23:43.57 | thebigdog | http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=50923712 |
| 23:44.12 | thebigdog | i think that is dataw0lf |
| 23:45.01 | thebigdog | im out |
| 23:45.10 | herlo | thebigdog: holy crap! |
| 23:45.21 | thebigdog | dude i am not making that crap up |
| 23:45.24 | herlo | thebigdog: dataw0lf wouldn't be caught dead in that |
| 23:45.31 | thebigdog | herlo |
| 23:45.49 | thebigdog | herlo do your research on black monday society in utah |
| 23:45.50 | herlo | thebigdog: |
| 23:45.52 | thebigdog | you will be amazed |
| 23:45.57 | herlo | thebigdog: I believe you |
| 23:46.30 | thebigdog | http://www.myfoxutah.com/myfox/pages/Home/Detail?contentId=7176870&version=2&locale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1 |
| 23:46.43 | thebigdog | hehe |
| 23:46.56 | thebigdog | herlo i think you are "Ghost" |
| 23:46.59 | thebigdog | hehe |
| 23:47.16 | herlo | k |
| 23:53.35 | *** part/#uphpu _psychic_ (n=_psychic@75.148.101.137) |
