IRC log for #uphpu on 20080514

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14:42.45mindjuj1ugh, what a day
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15:20.13mgearymorning
15:20.40mindjuj1morning
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15:31.10mindjuj1i remember that song
15:31.32mindjuj1i just realized that Jump came out in '82, some 26 freakin years ago!
15:31.51mindjuj1voices carry - 23 years ago
15:35.48wpsyou know what I hate almost more than spam? spammers that fake your email address (or the address of lists you manage) as the FROM and then the message bounces because the TO was bogus so you get message undeliverable or bounce notices
15:35.49wpsarrrrrrg
15:35.57mgearybackscatter
15:37.03mindjuj1oh no
15:37.12mindjuj1that's it, i'm calling it a day
15:39.25mgeary?
15:39.28fungusErg!  backscatter has been the bane of my existence of late.
15:39.40wpswhat is backscatter?
15:39.43wpsa name for what I described?
15:39.46mgearywps: what you described
15:39.46fungusyes
15:39.55mindjuj1the freakin' company contracts with a GD, who is a friend of the owner (supposedly, very good), so he comes up with a circa 1997 web design that the owner just loves (while the marketing director and I are just aghast), so, it gets fast track approval over our objections, i get the PSDs, and I build it out in CSS.  mouseovers, all CSS, everything is laid out perfect.  crossbrowser compatible, everything
15:40.02wpsyeah… it's very, very annoying
15:40.15mindjuj1so, he critques my HTML / CSS skills and says, he can help me clean up some stuff
15:40.24mindjuj1and I just got his code back
15:40.43wpsfull of Dreamweaver tags? :)
15:40.46mindjuj1anybody recognize this?
15:40.46mindjuj1function MM_swapImgRestore() { //v3.0
15:40.49mindjuj1yup
15:40.54mindjuj1all dreamweaver
15:41.02wpsha ha ha
15:41.02mindjuj1javascript for images on mouseovers, the works
15:41.09wpsyou do deserve to take the rest of the day off
15:42.08DexterTheDragonI have tables inside of tables inside of tables......
15:42.38mindjuj1i'm just looking at that part now
15:42.51mindjuj12 levels of nested tables since dreamweave designs that way
15:43.00DexterTheDragonfont tags everywhere
15:43.18DexterTheDragonand hundreds of   's
15:43.33mindjuj1oh no
15:43.37mindjuj1there are shims!
15:43.56mindjuj1he must have cut his PSD in fireworks
15:45.39mindjuj1for everybody's mutual horror, i present...
15:45.45mindjuj1the Shim! -       <td height="10" valign="top" bgcolor="FFFFFF"><img src="images/white.png" width="10" height="10" /></td>
15:46.18DexterTheDragonspacer.gif!
15:46.45mindjuj1well, i'm glad to see shim technology has advanced
15:46.49mindjuj1it's a png, not a gif
15:47.04orsonjwow, that sucks
15:47.45orsonjjbot give mindjuj1 some svn restore
15:47.46jbotACTION gives some svn restore to mindjuj1
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15:49.53DexterTheDragonmindjuju: I also enjoy the bgcolor on the td tag
15:49.57DexterTheDragonevery td tag
15:50.13DexterTheDragoncan put it once on the tr tag
15:50.26DexterTheDragonbut no we'll put it on every td tag
15:51.04PoeticIntensitywait, wait, wait.....
15:51.29PoeticIntensityso, mindjuju, you're telling us that you hand-coded non-table CSS layout that worked perfectly - cross-browser....
15:51.48PoeticIntensityand some boss's friend GD went and re-did it completely in dreamweaver!?
15:52.02PoeticIntensityand called it a......
15:52.07PoeticIntensity"CLEAN UP"!??!?!
15:52.08wps~lart people that reply to old emails with new messages instead of composing a new message
15:52.08jbotsmacks people that reply to old emails with new messages instead of composing a new message up side the head with a clue-by-4
15:53.23PoeticIntensityYou're a better man than I, mindjuju.
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16:33.03mgeary~boggle _psychic__
16:33.04jbotACTION stares in flabbergasted astonishment at _psychic__
16:34.10mgearyor was that _psychic___
16:34.21mgearyor maybe _psychic____
16:41.31mindjujui'm back, now, sorry
16:42.05mindjujuPoeticIntensity - It's been a heck of a day
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16:42.22PoeticIntensitysounds like it, bud...
16:42.38PoeticIntensityI would have a *SERIOUS* problem with that scenario.
16:44.34mindjujuyeah, i'm not very happy
16:44.57mindjujui'm going to take his code, and my code and call a special "butt kicikin' meeting
16:45.37mindjujui don't mind being critique, criticism -- but if you call the old man out, you'd better have your dukes up and a serious punch
16:45.48DexterTheDragonWOOOO 'butt kickin' meetings
16:45.59PoeticIntensitynow you're talkin'!
16:46.28mindjuju:)
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16:48.45thebigdoganyone here do any javascript debugging in IE7?
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16:56.39PoeticIntensityI wouldn't even know where to start debugging for IE.
16:56.54PoeticIntensity"Object not found" is about the extent of the debugging info they give ya... :)
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16:59.29Lone_WandererHi.
16:59.46Lone_WandererMan, we've got a lot of new faces.
17:01.08mindjuju@ Lone_Wanderer - sup bro!
17:01.26Lone_WandererNot much.  Finally got over my WoW habit so now I'm looking for other stuff to waste time on.
17:01.32Lone_WandererCurrent time waster: Learning lisp.
17:01.34Lone_Wanderer(Again.)
17:01.40Lone_WandererEt tois?
17:01.44mgearythebigdog: hahahaah, that was a good one
17:01.55mindjujume, just coding still
17:02.10Lone_Wanderermmmm, code
17:02.52thebigdogthere is a debugger out there...i just need to find it
17:03.03thebigdogLone_Wanderer, wow is the greatest
17:03.14Lone_WandererI know!  I wish I could enjoy it still.
17:03.15thebigdogi finally have 2 lvl 70s now to waste my time on
17:03.22Lone_WandererBut whenever I log on I just kind of go "What's the point?"
17:03.24mindjujuhow would i find out what the throughput is on a 24x CDrom
17:03.27thebigdogtake a couple months off and youll be back
17:03.35Lone_WandererThat's what I normally do, yeah.
17:03.44mindjujuLone_Wanderer - try Eve, let me know how good it is
17:04.04Lone_WandererHave been.  Not a big fan.
17:04.31DexterTheDragonthebigdog: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2004/10/26/247912.aspx
17:04.32Lone_WandererI have trouble getting enthusiastic about it for some reason.  Not sure why.  If I had people I could play with - like, go to their house and have a lan party - it'd be awesome.
17:06.44mindjujuso, if i have a 24x CDrom, it's transfering data at 4.22mb/sec
17:06.47mindjujudoes that sound right?
17:07.21mgearydepends on whether you're transferring one large file or several small ones, but that sounds about right to me
17:07.27mindjujuk
17:08.28PoeticIntensityLone_Wanderer, you into FPS games much?
17:08.40Lone_WandererEh.
17:08.46Lone_WandererEven if I were I don't have the horsepower to run them.
17:09.01Lone_WandererI need my dadgum BAH to go through.  I should have about $4k worth of back pay.
17:09.32Lone_Wanderer(Basic Allowance for Housing.  Half my paycheck has been going to rent ever since I joined the Army.)
17:10.28mindjujuyeah, saw the video of the living conditions of Fort Bragg - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46vYZFU1Dew
17:10.41mindjujuis the barracks where your at similar?
17:10.44Lone_Wandererohh, I didn't see that
17:10.51Lone_Wandererthis is to pay my rent for my apartment back home though
17:11.01mindjujuoh gotcha
17:15.36wpsLone_Wanderer: can you hook UPHPU up with a tank-test-drive day?
17:16.05wpsthat'd be a meeting I wouldn't miss
17:16.18wpscoordinate it at Camp Williams or something?
17:16.31wpshelicopters would work just as good
17:16.32Lone_Wandererphone
17:18.27mgearyhe's booking that helicopter
17:18.32mgearyway to go, Lone_Wanderer
17:18.50Lone_WandererI dunno.  I could talk to someone when I get home and see about organizing a tour of the hangar.
17:19.00Lone_WandererSo you could all come in and look at the Apaches and Blackhawks and things.
17:19.09wpsI don't want a tour
17:19.13wpsI want to drive the thing :)
17:19.22wpsand blow something up
17:19.25Lone_WandererI'd tell the brass that it's a recruiting th ing.
17:19.36wpsI want to pull a trigger
17:19.43Lone_WandererBuy an AR-15 :p
17:20.37Lone_WandererThat was actually my friend who was going into SF.  He got selected but he just called now and said that he's coming to Ft. Eustis to be reclassed.
17:20.42Lone_WandererSo I'm gonna have to ask him what happened when he gets here.
17:20.54Lone_WandererAnyway.  Yeah.  Flying a helicopter is hard :p
17:21.06wps:)
17:23.51Lone_WandererWow.  Our barracks aren't that bad.
17:24.01Lone_WandererThey're nasty and old, but not this bad.
17:25.03mindjujuyeah, vid is pretty sad
17:25.09Lone_WandererSounds like they have hot water though, which would be nice.
17:25.28mindjujuwell, anyway, that's how i learned about BAH or what ever that is that allows the gov to stipend an apartment
17:26.01Lone_Wandereryeah, it's usually only given to sergeants or above
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17:31.36mindjujudag, this is what i get for procrastinating computer buildout - PC Club Out of Business ?  -http://www.hardocp.com/news.html?news=MzIzNjksLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdCwsLDE=
17:31.50Lone_WandererThat'd suck, PC Club was awesome.
17:32.20Lone_WandererThe exact same code works fine in one place and not fine in another.
17:34.56PoeticIntensityWTH?
17:35.08PoeticIntensityI was like.... days away from placing an order with PCClub...
17:35.09Lone_Wandererwth what?
17:35.12Lone_Wandereroh =(
17:35.14PoeticIntensityinsane.
17:35.20Lone_WandererMaybe they'll have a "going out of business" sale.
17:35.35PoeticIntensitynow I have *one* place to go for local computer parts.
17:35.50DexterTheDragonnewegg
17:35.59PoeticIntensityyeah... newegg rocks...
17:36.01fungusHe said local.
17:36.06mgearyEBC is good for local
17:36.09PoeticIntensitybut I really, really, really don't want to go to EBC..
17:36.13mgearyhah
17:36.16DexterTheDragonnewegg is right at my doorstep local :D
17:36.39fungusI like newegg too, but sometimes I want it *now*
17:37.10fungusAnd all the stories i've heard about EBC kinda scares me.
17:37.49mgearyi've only ever bought RAM from EBC
17:39.02PoeticIntensityI've bought quite a few things at EBC, but the one time I tried to return something made me think twice.
17:39.09PoeticIntensitytheir return policy is *horrible*
17:39.21PoeticIntensityso if ya buy it, ya better hope it isn't broken.
17:39.57DexterTheDragonlol
17:40.21PoeticIntensity*sigh*....
17:40.25PoeticIntensitywhat shall I have for lunch?
17:40.33wpsmeatloaf
17:40.35mindjujuyou should do what i'm doing
17:40.38fungusI've never had problems with EBC, but I've never tried to return anything.
17:40.56PoeticIntensitymeatloaf...
17:41.02PoeticIntensityI'd love it if it was home-made.
17:41.05mindjujui called me wife, said "yo sup, come get me and let's get a bite to eat"
17:41.09wpsthat's what I'm having for lunch
17:41.29wpshomemade meatloaf with real mashed potatoes (not flakes)
17:41.33PoeticIntensityrock on!
17:41.36PoeticIntensityyummy!
17:42.01wps~wade's wife++
17:42.06wps~wade's wife
17:42.07jbotmethinks wade's wife is Mrs. Sexy Pants
17:42.12mgeary~karma wade's wife
17:42.12jbotwade's wife has neutral karma
17:42.14wpsjbot is so wise
17:42.24PoeticIntensityI wonder if PCClub will be selling their stuff off for cheap...
17:45.20mgeary~karma thebigdog
17:45.20jbotthebigdog has karma of 4
17:46.08wpsthe MySQL replace() function sure is handy
17:47.22mindjujuthat's weird, i thought i saw thebigdog come in this morning
17:47.45mindjuju~PoeticIntensity
17:47.46jbotfrom memory, poeticintensity is the proud owner of a Black 2007 Mustang GT. not Poetic, although he can be Intense
17:47.46wpshe's a CTO… he's probably out golfing
17:48.14mindjujujbot, PoeticIntensity is also sporting a mohawk
17:48.15jbotokay, mindjuju
17:48.19thebigdogim here
17:48.21mindjuju~PoeticIntensity
17:48.22jbotpoeticintensity is, like, the proud owner of a Black 2007 Mustang GT. not Poetic, although he can be Intense, or sporting a mohawk
17:48.59mindjujusup thebigdog, for some reason didn't see you in my list of who is here, but now you show up
17:49.15mgearythere's a karma filter on your list, mindjuju
17:49.18thebigdoghehe
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17:53.50Lone_Wanderer~Lone_Wanderer
17:53.51jbothmm... lone_wanderer is goes through sunflower seeds way too fast, or an acolyte of mindjuju's musical tastes, or not heckariffic (whatever that is)
17:54.02Lone_WandererWhat is heckariffic?
17:54.16mgearyhey, i think we've discussed this before, but just to revisit the topic, is anyone aware of a way to use PHP to download a file and NOT tie up all subsequent connections to that domain until the file is finished downloading? I've considered using other CNAMEs to allow multiple streams, but that has other ramifications
17:54.29mgearya sample scenario:
17:54.36Lone_WandererSpawn a thread?
17:54.55wpsApache can serve multiple files downloading at once
17:54.59wpswhat isn't working?
17:55.36mgearyuser X goes to www.domain.com and clicks on a link to a php file that force-downloads a 30-meg file. While this is downloading, the user clicks on a nav link on the site. Some browsers will hang until the file is done downloading and only then go on
17:55.44mgearySafari does this
17:56.09wpsI've never noticed that
17:57.33wpswhoa… you're right
17:57.38wpswhat's up with that
17:57.42mgearywell duh i'm right
17:57.44mgeary;)
17:57.53wpsthere's got to be a simple workaround
17:58.10mgearysites like YouTube will use a wide variety of IPs and alternate domains
17:58.22mgearybut that causes problems for preserving a PHP session
17:59.00wpscan anyone tell my what's wrong with this query?
17:59.01wpsupdate cms_pages set p_code=replace(p_code,'Analytique','Analytics') where p_lang_id=3;
17:59.28mgearywhat error do you gt?
17:59.29wpsI want to replace all instances of the string "Analytique" within the field p_code
17:59.37wpsRows matched: 49  Changed: 0  Warnings: 0
17:59.44wpsbut when I run
17:59.44wpsselect p_id from cms_pages where p_code like "%Analytique%";
17:59.50wpsI get 13 rows matched
18:00.06fungusWhy use replace() for something simple like that?
18:00.09wpsso I know that there are instances of "Analytique" in there
18:00.17wpsI am open to better options
18:00.28wpsthat's the only way I know to do a search and replace
18:00.35wpsthrough multiple rows
18:00.35fungusupdate cmd_pages set p_code = 'Analytics' where p_code='Analytique' and p_lang_id=3;
18:00.37mgearyyou want to use a string function
18:00.56mgearyfungus: that assumes that the entire field is "Analytics"
18:00.57fungusOh, nvm, I get it.
18:01.04wpsI don't want to set p_code to just that stright
18:01.11wpsp_code is full of lots of text
18:01.52mgearywps: try doing it as a select first
18:02.36mgearyselect p_code as old_value, replace(p_code,'Analytique','Analytics') as new_value from cms_pages
18:02.49mgearyselect p_code as old_value, replace(p_code,'Analytique','Analytics') as new_value from cms_pages where p_lang_id = 3
18:03.28wpsha ha ha
18:03.34wpsran that without the lang id
18:03.38wps880 rows returned
18:03.43wpshad to watch that scroll for a while
18:03.50mgearyalso, i always qualify my replace calls with a WHERE
18:04.00mgearythat checks for the existence of the string
18:04.05mgearyjust in case, you know
18:04.20wpsgood call
18:04.51mgearyalso means you operate on 13 rows instead of 880 ;)
18:06.37wpsweird
18:06.41wpshere is my query now
18:06.41wpsupdate cms_pages set p_code=replace(p_code,'Analytique','Analytics') where p_lang_id=3 and p_code like "%Analytique%";
18:06.50wpsmatching 13 rows… which is the right number of rows
18:06.54wpsbut it's not doing the replace
18:08.10mgearythat is weird. your previous select query did the replace correctly?
18:08.26wpsno… nothing I have run on this is working
18:08.38wpsI am trying it now against just one row
18:08.58wpsthat didn't work either
18:09.06wpssomething must be wrong with the way I am using replace()
18:09.16wpsI've done this many time before though
18:09.18wpsstrainge
18:09.22wpsstrange
18:10.47Lone_WandererI need a haircut but I don't want to get one.
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18:46.46brastoi've forgotten where startup services are in freebsd... anyone know?
18:47.10brastothere's no /etc/init.d, and it's not in /etc/rc.d
18:47.31brastoi'm doing a find / -iname init.d, but that'll take a while
18:48.15brastoor herlo, if he's back...
18:48.23brasto~seen herlo
18:48.26jbotherlo is currently on #utos (7d 14h 38m 20s) #utah (7d 14h 38m 20s) #uphpu (7d 14h 38m 20s) #ubuntu-us-ut (7d 14h 38m 20s). Has said a total of 762 messages. Is idling for 1h 11m 36s, last said: 'well, after I end my lecture that is :)'.
18:48.26fungusFor base daemons
18:48.27fungus/etc/rc.d
18:48.34fungusfor ports installed apps
18:48.37fungus/usr/local/etc/rc.d
18:48.46jnbekbrasto: /usr/local/etc/rc.d
18:49.02brastothat's the one, fungus and jnbek. thank you
18:56.45mgeary~herlo
18:56.46jbotit has been said that herlo is the best boardgamer ever, works for Guru Labs and generally reads good things his friends lend him
18:57.17mgearyjbot, herlo is also prone to vanishing mysteriously for days at a time
18:57.18jbotACTION pokes is with a sharp needle also prone to vanishing mysteriously for days at a time
18:57.24mgearygrr
19:01.42brastothat was odd...
19:01.51mgearyherlo is an action
19:01.56mgeary~herlo brasto
19:01.57jbotACTION pokes brasto in they eye with a sharp needle
19:01.58brastoah.. i see
19:02.02brastoouch
19:02.19mgearyfactoids shouldn't be allowed to also be actions, imo
19:02.29mgearyjbot, brasto thinks you're a dork
19:02.38brastolol
19:02.51brasto~brastotack mgeary
19:02.52jbotACTION lectures mgeary on properly designed databases, normalization, writing quality code with comments, and active-voice writing until mgeary can't take anymore and goes berserk.
19:03.38brasto~dorky bot
19:03.44brasto~dumb bot
19:03.45jbotstupid human
19:05.02PoeticIntensityjob, you are a moron.
19:05.06PoeticIntensity*fail*
19:05.12PoeticIntensityjbot, you are a moron.
19:05.13jbotPoeticIntensity: I think you lost me on that one
19:05.22PoeticIntensityk.  that made me feel better.
19:05.33PoeticIntensityjbot, you are a moron.
19:05.33jbotPoeticIntensity: what are you talking about?
19:05.34brastoodd... all things on my server are running fine, except pma
19:08.26brastoarg
19:08.39brastoi'm about to go to cli to bypass pma...
19:30.43DexterTheDragonI have never seen tables nested so deep
20:21.08PoeticIntensityonce you go cli, brasto, you'll never look back
20:25.34brastoi do cli at times PoeticIntensity, but still like pma for some of its features
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20:42.26wpsanyone want to critique a small chunk of code? (~10 lines)
20:42.26wpshttp://rafb.net/p/VlpCWe14.html
20:42.44wpstwo ways of doing the same thing
20:43.23mgearyjeeze
20:43.31wpsI know it's ugly
20:43.59mgearysomething in me says there's an OOP architecture just begging to be designed around this need ;)
20:44.46mgearyit seems really complex to have so many variables have an influence on your caching mechanism
20:45.14mgearybut you didn't ask that. I believe the latter approach is much more readable. easier to comment something out. etc.
20:45.26wpsthat's what I am thinking
20:45.37wpsI don't like all of those ORs
20:45.41mgearyno
20:45.52mgearythough it'd be much worse if there were a bunch of ANDs in there as well
20:46.12wpsyeah… we implemented this caching engine and discovered that there were a lot of exceptions we had to put in place
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21:07.27wpswhen you return within a function, that stops processing right there, right?
21:07.52wpsor do I need an exit after the return?
21:08.04mgearycorrect to your first question
21:08.10mgearyno to your latter
21:08.19wpsk
21:08.22mgearyif you put an exit in a function it will stop ALL subsequent php
21:08.29mgearyincluding outside the function
21:08.30wpsoh yeah… duh
21:08.46wpswhat about a break? what if I have a return within a switch within a function?
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21:09.14wpsI shouldn't need the break right? because it will stop processing right when it gets to the return?
21:09.17mgearyright
21:09.20wpsk
21:09.32mgearythat's a good way to short-circuit a function
21:09.35mgearyjust have an early return
21:09.58mgearyreduces/slims IF statements and cleans up code
21:30.01wpsI rewrote it all, mgeary
21:30.08mgearysweet
21:30.12wpsusing the short-circuit to my benefit
21:30.24wpsmuch clearer and commented
21:30.42wpsand doesn't waste processing after one processing is met
21:30.49wpsand doesn't waste processing after one condition
21:30.54wpsand doesn't waste processing after one condition is met
21:31.48mgearyvery nice
21:33.13mgearyi'll take readable code over performance any day of the week. Performance of the same code always gets better as hardware & etc. improves, but poor read-abilty is a problem that never fixes itself
21:33.59mgearyand generally speaking, the kind of performance gains you get by making code more confusing are probably often too small to reliably measure
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23:01.57mgeary~rlart
23:01.57jbottakes out a cattle prod and gives mindjuju a good jolt
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23:12.51timinatorI'm out guys.... later
23:18.38wpsif anyone can make it to the PLUG meeting this evening, I would highly recommend it… the gentleman from MySQL that is presenting did a preview at my office this afternoon and it was exceptional
23:18.43wpshe knows his crap
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