IRC log for #uphpu on 20080319

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02:12.27beandogmindjuju: around?
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02:59.51*** topic/#uphpu is Meeting Thursday - PHP and Asterisk presented by utah_dave @ 7p | UPHPU | http://uphpu.org
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14:49.59mindjujumorning gents
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15:02.24orsonjPoeticIntensity: I'll second CyberDuck. I set it up for someone recently, and it worked great for them.
15:03.01orsonjmorning mindjuju
15:04.51mindjujusup
15:05.04mindjujucan't wait for Applebee 's hot boneless buffalo wings tomorrow
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15:12.43thebigdogmorning all
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15:13.01mindjujumorning
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15:44.01mindjuju~APB beandog
15:44.02jbotACTION hires Leland to rough up beandog
15:44.16beandogwhot whot whot
15:44.31mindjujuhey, you were looking for me last night
15:44.40mindjujujust letting you know i'm here now
15:44.49beandogmindjuju, you let me down, buddy
15:44.53beandog:)
15:45.18beandogmindjuju, I was just looking for movie suggestions
15:45.32mindjuju80's movies?
15:45.35mindjuju90's?
15:45.46beandognow playing
15:46.26mindjujuhorton was pretty good if you ahve kids
15:47.07beandogoh gosh, theres no way Im gonna see it.
15:47.22beandoglooks embarrassingly dumb
15:47.53mindjujuit was good, kept mainly to the theme of the book, tons of eye candy for four year olds
15:47.58beandogooh when does Indy come out/
15:48.12mindjujunot til August i think
15:48.25beandogmeh.
15:48.33mindjujuJuno is suppose to be funny
15:48.40beandogoh yah I keep forgetting to see that
15:49.45SunSparcBeandog, all your current preview, for your enjoyment:  http://www.apple.com/trailers/
15:50.15mindjujubeandog don't do trailers
15:51.03beandogwhot?
15:51.05beandogI love trailers.
15:51.10beandogI have archives of trailers.
15:51.13beandog(really)
15:51.25beandogI just dont watch them before the movie. :)
15:51.29beandogwell, not anymore.
15:51.43mindjujuoh, then who was it that I was sending the trailer for ironman that said they don't do trailers?
15:51.52beandogthats me
15:52.06beandogIve since decided its better to go into a movie knowing as little as possible
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15:52.49beandoghttp://youtube.com/watch?v=pzfuNSpP0RA
15:52.51beandoggreatest trailer evah.
15:53.51beandogmindjuju, trying to understand my preferences is an exercise in madness.
15:54.14mindjujui'll say
15:54.45beandogman I gotta see this movie again
15:55.17mindjujui don't think i can watch this one
15:55.54beandogDavid Hasellhoff + lightsaber = t3h awesome
15:56.13mindjujuflash gordon, me likey -- dune, me likely -- kung fu movies from the late 70's, 80's, me likely
15:56.20mindjujubut that seems a bit of a stretch
15:56.26beandogflash gordon is so cheesy
15:56.43mindjujuyou'd better believe it
15:56.49mindjujubut this?
15:57.13beandogI cant sit through flash gordon.
15:57.19mindjujupsh!
15:57.32mindjujuFlash Gordon had OST from Queen
15:57.39mindjujucan't get better
15:57.57mindjujuin fact, have flash gordon on VHS, DVD - OST on cassette and CD
15:58.04beandogoh man.
15:58.06beandogyou are a nerd.
15:58.10mindjujuand if i get back home to Houston, I might actually have the beta
15:58.24mindjujui'll have to check though as it is been so long
16:00.46beandogI was just thinking, that would have been a perfect candidate
16:01.27mindjujui heard there is a website somewherez with official mst3k audio you can overplay on a movie
16:01.38beandogheh
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16:25.34timinatorwooohooooo..... happy happy birthday to me
16:25.39timinatorbig 3 - 0
16:25.55mgeary~console timinator
16:25.56jbotACTION gives timinator the consolation moose
16:26.04timinatorlol
16:26.42SunSparcWow, you have been living in a mortal body for three decades now.
16:27.45mindjuju3 DECADES!
16:27.51mindjujuyipes!
16:28.00timinatorLOL
16:28.35timinatorguess I'm all grown up and stuff
16:29.27SunSparcWell, just because you are 30 does not indicate any level of maturity other than physical.
16:29.28SunSparc;)
16:32.37timinatortrue true
16:34.17timinator:)
16:35.23mindjujutiminator, nothing is better than the toilet prank, if you have the equipment
16:35.38timinatortoilet prank?
16:35.46mindjujuthe INFAMOUS toilet prank
16:35.52mindjujuk, here is what you do
16:37.10SunSparcThere a quite a few toilet pranks.
16:37.21SunSparcSaran wrap is a fun one
16:37.30SunSparcjell-o
16:37.39SunSparcVasoline
16:37.42brastolove that song - haven't heard it for years
16:38.19mindjujuget you a walkman, go to the battery compartment and open that up.  now get you a small piece of thin cardboard and put aluminum on both sides.  wedge that in between the batteries.  now attach a piece of wire to both pieces of aluminum.  now take the walkman and put it BEHIND the toilet.  take your new leads and put it under the toliet seat.  now get a piece of paper and crumble it up and put that under the seat and make it so that when somebody sits down
16:38.34mindjujuput the two wires so taht they will on other side of the compressed ball
16:38.41mindjujuso that when the ball compresses, they make contact
16:38.57mindjujuon the walkman tape, record " WHO THE HECK TURNED OFF THE LIGHTS UP THERE!!!!"
16:39.00mindjujunuff said
16:40.41PoeticIntensityhehe....
16:40.59PoeticIntensity<quote>
16:41.05PoeticIntensitySo, if you are looking for a rousing sci fi adventure with narrative coherence, decent special effects, worthwhile acting and competent technical craftsmanship, watch Star Wars; but if you're in the mood for an incomprehensible but colorful mish-mash of Ray Harryhausen movies, old Flash Gordon serials and just about everything else up to and including the kitchen sink, watch STARCRASH. You certainly won't forget it soon.
16:41.08PoeticIntensity</quote>
16:48.02SunSparcSweet!  Speaking of pranks, check this out:  http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/a11e
16:49.39SunSparcFor coming out around the same time period, there is such a HUGE difference between the quality of Star Wars and Star Crasher.
16:49.46SunSparcOr whatever it was called.
16:51.19mindjujucurious, I wonder if the guy on the mailing list knows that there was a new release of photoshop in the last year
17:28.39*** join/#uphpu swb (n=designsi@box324.bluehost.com)
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17:32.29thebigdogwelcome
17:34.00timinatormindjuju: that's too funny man
17:34.07timinatorhi swb
17:35.32swbso, how do I change the MAILTO environment (something I can change?)hi
17:35.36swbdoh
17:36.18swbk, trying to change the default MAILTO environment for a user... so that cron messages are sent to an address other than the default user account address
17:37.36swbnevermind, figured it out
17:37.52SunSparcGood job
17:38.08swbyou change MAILTO in the cron file itself (i.e. MAILTO='blah')
17:38.11swb:)
17:40.43mindjujugood ole swb, hows the new job?
17:40.50swbLOVE it
17:41.00swbis different, good different
17:41.29swbmindjuju, you should have been at PodCampSLC!!
17:41.42mindjujuyeah, i wanted to be, but had to do some house stuff
17:41.52mindjujui know they were doing streaming, codecs, etc
17:42.02swbthere was a REALLY good session on audio
17:42.12swbI'm glad I went
17:42.21swbyou'll come next time  :)
17:42.32mindjujuyeah
17:42.36mindjujuneed to
17:43.01mindjujuwnat to find out more about this Adobe patent that was filed that might possibly threaten red5 and other servers
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18:26.31mindjujuwow - comcast says FCC doesn't have right to regulate - http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080318-comcast-fcc-lacks-any-authority-to-act-on-p2p-blocking.html
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19:10.38*** join/#uphpu Trevy1 (n=Trevyn@70.0.168.176)
19:10.53Trevy1Im starting a blog
19:11.02Trevy1A blog that promotes standards, and exposes web fraud and dis honesty in Utah realated web services
19:11.10Trevy1Feedback on the idea?
19:11.45wpswhat type of fraud do you see going on in Utah related to web services?
19:14.15Trevy1SEO scamming, Padding hours, Under tested wap apps ect.
19:14.23Trevy1wep*
19:14.41Trevy1A hot or not of web service providers.
19:15.22Trevy1Custumer reviews
19:15.31Trevy1Reviews of users groups
19:15.58mindjujuTrevy1 - would just recommend being careful, possibly speaking with a lawyer about where the law is on libel in describing fraud
19:16.13Trevy1Cool thanks.
19:16.38Trevy1Anyone motivted to write on it?
19:16.43Trevy1If so let me know
19:17.11Trevy1Ill give a review of UPHPU, and let you all know
19:18.22Trevy1Cant you defame people on the internet?
19:18.44Trevy1If you have reason to belive so?
19:18.54wpseven if you could, wouldn't you rather spend your time on something positive?
19:19.06Trevy1I think it is positive.
19:19.18Trevy1Pointing out who are honest and who are not.
19:19.41Trevy1For the good of the industry
19:19.47mindjujuwell, i'd be worried about libel, curiously enough, googling blog libel brings up 2.2 million hits
19:19.55Trevy1For the benefit of customers and service providers.
19:20.05Trevy1yeah did the same thing
19:20.18mindjujuand I read something about a site on groklaw, but for th elife of me, can't remember which it was
19:20.21Trevy1Well Ill get something up and come back with somethign interesting
19:20.24mindjujuseems like it was a political site though
19:21.14mindjujunow that swb -- she's a real trouble maker, prolly sued for libel at least 10x
19:21.41mindjuju:)
19:22.18mgearythe problem is, even if you're justified, can you afford to defend yourself if someone DOES sue?
19:22.55mgearymost companies could simply bury a lone voice with legal fees and wait them out
19:22.57mindjujuyeah, v true
19:23.18mgearysince a judge/jury would have to decide whether it was libel or not
19:25.05Trevy1lol
19:25.23Trevy1Im cut and pasting names from IRC as reliable resources
19:42.44unumI'm having trouble getting my site to work using multiple css files
19:43.15Trevy1POst a link?
19:43.44SunSparcunum: What is the problem?
19:43.51unumhmmm it's internal
19:44.07unumSunSparc: for some reason it doesn't seem to see the second file
19:44.20unumwhen I view src I see the command to link it
19:44.27unumI can't find any typos
19:44.37SunSparcpastebin?
19:45.02unumaaah, when I switch them around which ever one is first works
19:45.25SunSparcOdd, should take any number of them.
19:45.37SunSparcFF or IE?
19:46.06unum<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="css/edit.css" title="Edit"/>
19:46.06unum<link rel="stylesheet" type="text/css" href="css/main.css" title="Main"/>
19:46.09unumff
19:46.18unumis there anything wrong with those two lines
19:47.27SunSparcNo, they both look standard.
19:48.00SunSparcYou could throw this into the first one:
19:48.09SunSparc@import url("css/main.css");
19:48.22SunSparcAnd then just have one link
19:48.40SunSparcBut only if you want all of them globally.
19:48.55SunSparcStill does not explain why the second is not being loaded.
19:49.08SunSparcCan you check results in a different browser?
19:49.20unumgood idea
19:50.32SunSparcYou can also try adding your style sheets this way:
19:50.53SunSparc<style type="text/css">
19:50.54SunSparc@import url(/css/main.css);
19:50.54SunSparc</style>
19:51.42SunSparcAlthough, the other way should still work.
19:52.38unumthat worked
19:52.39unumhmmm
19:52.53SunSparcTry using full web paths for the style sheets instead of relative
19:53.09SunSparcLike:  /css/edit.css
19:53.19SunSparcIf it is located on the web root.
19:53.47unumit was the title stuff
19:54.05SunSparcCool
19:54.08unumI don't normally use those but this is modifing someone else code
19:54.11SunSparcI was wondering about those.
19:54.18unumactually that should be about the last of his code
19:54.30unumthis is only the third time I rewrote this app
19:54.30SunSparcGood thing.  :)
19:54.39SunSparcWow
19:59.14unumwhat?
19:59.28unumhmm should I use a table on this page or not
20:00.53SunSparcThat is the true dilemma
20:00.55SunSparc:)
20:01.18wpswhat's the dilemma?
20:01.26wpsif it's tabular data, use a table
20:01.28wpsif it's not, don't
20:01.50mindjuju"Hi, my name is Mindjuju.  I've been table free (in GUI design) for 2 years now"
20:02.12mindjujuits CSS for me!
20:02.29wpsCSS should not equal table-free
20:02.48wpstables are a great piece of markup
20:02.53wps…as long as they are used appropriately
20:03.10mindjujuwhat you talking about willis
20:03.19mindjujuother than tabular data uses?
20:03.35unumactually some of the data is tabular
20:03.45unumbut that stuff all looks fine spans...
20:03.52wpsI've preached that from the beginning
20:04.00beandogoO
20:04.02beandoguh, okay
20:04.04wpstables are for organizing data, not layout
20:04.13wpsI have never been anti table
20:04.15wpsnever
20:04.27wpsbut I am firmly anti using tables for page structure
20:04.38wpsand layout
20:04.59mindjujuah, i think i misunderstood.  when i said in GUI design i meant layout / structure
20:05.20wpsah
20:05.20mindjujubut yess, have used tables for tabular data
20:07.30wpsgood way to tell if someone is marking their page up incorrectly is if they have an opening table tag immediately following their opening body tag
20:08.17wpsa table should be an element on the page such as an image, a paragraph of text, a quote, or some flash… not the page itself
20:08.58mindjujuman, more than 3 years with this company i work for and they send me coach to Cali on Southwest!  that's like sending me air freight on Delta
20:09.24beandog~highmaint mindjuju
20:09.29wpsha ha ha
20:09.42unummindjuju: apparantly you missed the benefits of flying on southwest that leno discussed last night
20:09.52wps:)
20:10.03mindjujuhaven't seen leno since he took over for Johnny
20:10.08beandogleno stinks.
20:10.12Utah_Davewhat did leno say?
20:10.13beandogconan ftw
20:10.23wpsI can't stand Conan
20:10.30mindjuju^5 beandog
20:10.34wpsand am so, so, so sad that he will be taking over the tonight show in a few years
20:10.40mindjujuthough i haven't seen Conan in a long time eiuther
20:10.58mindjujubut who doesn't love Triumph?
20:11.00wpsthe thing I can't stand the most about him is his entrance
20:11.01beandogI have to wonder if Letterman is ever going to go off the air.
20:11.08unumI like Leno, Stewart, and Colbert
20:11.15mindjujuso wait though, what did Leno say?
20:11.17unumnever want to see any of the others again
20:11.22Trevy1http://www.utahwebstandards.com/
20:11.57beandog"They are very technical, and in most cases can non-biased."
20:12.00unuma woman woke up to find a guy masturbating next to her on another airline.  leno said the nice thing about southwest is that nobody has enough room to move their arms
20:12.08beandognon-biased?  Thats no fun.
20:12.23beandogWe all know I'm right.  And you're wrong.
20:12.26wpsyou have some typo in your post, Trevy1
20:12.36Trevy1I know typos show its not generated text
20:12.40Trevy1its an SEO trick
20:13.02mindjujuunum - just read about that the other day
20:13.10wpsI think it makes you look unprofessional
20:13.24Trevy1K, Ill fix
20:13.30Trevy1Kidding about the SEO thing
20:14.30wpsI don't think that you blog is going to achieve your desired purpose with posts such as the one you just posted
20:14.55wpsit feels like a personal rant blog, not a professional community where people will discuss and rate service providers
20:14.59Trevy1Thanks for the spell chack
20:15.34Trevy1How would I change it?  Id love for you to write something
20:15.36wpsTrevy1, are you sean@lookin3d.com?
20:15.39Trevy1no
20:15.49wpsfirst, the look and feel needs to be entirely different
20:15.57wpsthis looks like an out-of-the-box word press blog
20:16.01Trevy1It is
20:16.11wpsblog == personal something or other, not community site
20:16.14beandogmm, wordpress
20:16.23beandogsecurity bugs for everyone!
20:17.26mindjujugrrr!!!!
20:18.02beandogmindjuju, maybe its in first class
20:18.15beandog:)
20:19.23wpsyour review of the UPHPU mailing list also makes me wonder how much exposure to mailing lists you have had
20:19.46wpsUPHPU is one of the most positive, beneficial, and on-topic lists I have participated in
20:20.27beandogno kidding
20:20.30Trevy1http://www.utahwebstandards.com/
20:20.30beandogits a real anomaly
20:20.34Trevy1new article about BlueHost
20:21.14Trevy1Im not a big mailing list person, I run a mailing list for my gorup of people, and I may just be using it differently than others
20:21.30wpsI'd be careful what you post on the internet
20:21.47wpsnext time you try and get a job, the employer is going to Google you
20:22.02beandogwell
20:22.04beandoga smart employer.
20:22.08beandogwell, even then
20:22.14beandognot necessarily.
20:22.17Trevy1lol
20:22.38wpsto be straight-up blunt with you
20:22.44Trevy1I post your comments
20:22.48wps(since you asked for opinions)
20:22.55Trevy1yeah bring it
20:22.55wpsI wouldn't hire you even if you had the chops
20:23.02Trevy1Thats cool
20:23.41Trevy1I admit I ahve issues
20:23.48wpsI hate to say that… I don't know you very well at all… but that's part of the point
20:23.55wpsyour first impressions have not been very positive
20:24.30Trevy1Yeah, thanks for the honesty, I agree with you.
20:24.33beandogif someone used my blog as a hiring point, then they are real morons.
20:24.36Trevy1I can do better
20:24.43beandogIt's where I'm completely off topic and talk about wth I want.
20:24.54beandogoh well.
20:24.55beandog:)
20:25.02SunSparcThat is what blogs are for.
20:25.14SunSparcNot for selling yourself to a new employer
20:25.25SunSparcAlthough, I guess  blog can be whatever someone wants
20:25.32beandogyah
20:25.43beandoggoogling my name doesnt really dig up anything interesting anyway
20:26.59beandogeek
20:27.04beandogIm not nearly as proud as a google images search.
20:27.30wpsurl?
20:27.43mgearyhttp://www.truthaboutabs.com/AbouttheAuthor.html
20:27.52mgearywanna see my abs?
20:28.33wpsawesome
20:28.33Trevy1http://www.utahwebstandards.com/?p=5
20:29.10mgearyscary thing is, the first google images hit on me IS me, and it's from a UPHPU lunch
20:29.16wpswow, Trevy1
20:29.47Trevy1Sarcasm?
20:30.01wpshow old are you?
20:30.15Trevy126
20:30.18beandogwow cool
20:30.24beandogyahoo *finally* defaults to SSL login
20:30.28beandogGeez.
20:30.33beandogI'm glad Google did that from the start.
20:31.57mindjujuwhew!  found the adapter
20:32.37SunSparcmindjuju: Congrats
20:33.13wpsI'd appreciate you taking my comments of your site if you don't mind
20:36.17Trevy1http://www.utahwebstandards.com/?p=6
20:36.25Trevy1Alvaro read if your hear
20:37.11mgearydang
20:37.24mgeary~buy Trevy1 a spelling & grammar checker
20:37.24jbotACTION goes to S-Mart and gets a dozen a spelling & grammar checkers for Trevy1
20:38.39tierrahehe, haven't done a google image search on my name in a long time... the results are amusing
20:40.35tierrathis image comes up because it was linked on Utah OS Planet, and my name was in a post, but neither were in the same post: http://www.ryanbyrd.net/techramble/wp-content/uploads/2007/10/mcbride-lies.jpg
20:40.49tierrathat's just awesome
20:49.13mindjujuso trevy1 - swinging pretty hard with that sledge hammer - as a friend here, usually when you start listing how a company is incompetent and you start listing their business practices, that is where they start to break out the lawyers -- somewhere between defamatory and libel, methinks
20:49.31mindjujujust an FYI
20:50.01Trevy1mind... I took the names out
20:50.03Trevy1is that better
20:51.10tierrayes, it's one thing when you're a customer, it's another when you're an employee, or ex-employee
20:51.17mindjujuTrevy1 - since by "better" you're really asking, is it "legal" or "safe" i would suggest you pass it by an attorney or maybe check groklaw
20:51.27orsonjheh: http://www.linkedin.com/pub/3/B31/A46
20:52.02Trevy1Eh blogging is blogging kinda
20:52.18Trevy1Ill do more reaserach on legil suff
20:53.42mgeary"legil suff", you're killing me here, Trevy1
20:54.03Utah_Davemindjuju: how much are you hoping to get for that pix?
20:54.43mindjujuebay / fair market
20:54.48mindjujuwhy,you want to PM an offer?
20:55.00wpsTrevy1: your SEO post contradicts itself
20:55.32wpsyou open by saying that the price is not market drive and then in the fourth paragraph you say the reverse
20:55.44orsonj~give mgeary anti-grammar pills
20:55.45jbotACTION gives anti-grammar pills to mgeary
20:55.46Trevy1I dodnt write it
20:55.58Trevy1Please post your comment there, Id love to lay the smack down on him
20:56.04Trevy1Its really all about learning
20:57.04wpsah, since the punctuation wasn't complete, I didn't realize the quote extended three paragraphs
21:02.48wpsI also assumed that you wrote it since I thought I remembered you saying that you did SEO for a living
21:04.16Trevy1Not me
21:04.53wpswhat do you do?
21:06.58Trevy1New article: http://www.utahwebstandards.com/?p=7
21:07.02Trevy1Square Compass
21:07.20Trevy1wps: I do IT, and Web apps
21:08.19wpswow
21:08.43wpshere, Trevy1, you'll need this: http://www.monster.com/
21:09.04Trevy1Why
21:09.20Trevy1You think Ill lose my job?
21:09.34Trevy1i wrote a good review
21:09.41Trevy1except the first line
21:09.46Trevy1but its an honest question
21:10.04*** join/#uphpu beandog (n=steve@gentoo/developer/beandog)
21:10.10*** mode/#UPHPU [+v beandog] by ChanServ
21:11.14wpsyes, I would fire you for making comments such as that if you were under my employ
21:12.22Trevy1I dont thin kmy employer cares about this local web industry
21:12.35beandogwps is a mean employer. :)
21:12.38Trevy1So are you saying becuase of the topic, or because of the principle
21:13.07wpsbecause you called him closed minded and incompetent
21:13.45Trevy1Who?
21:13.52Trevy1Contractors
21:13.57cycokilrhey guys, what's the difference between an index that has say "key_name_1 | INDEX | 500 | key_name_1" and one that has say "key_name_1 | INDEX | 500 | key_name_1,key_name_2,key_name_3"
21:13.59Trevy1He was never my "Boss"
21:13.59cycokilrmake sense?
21:14.01wpsyour employer, the CEO of Square Compass
21:14.11Trevy1I dont work for them
21:14.18Trevy1He contracts his sys admin work out to me
21:14.29Trevy1on occation
21:14.39Trevy1Why the developers have new requests
21:15.06wpsI thought "Square Compass" was your answer to my question of what you do for a living.
21:15.09Trevy1I am an independatn contractor
21:15.15Trevy1Oh my bad
21:15.40cycokilryou should call yourself "freelance"
21:15.51Trevy1You know what you should call your self?
21:15.59Trevy1JK, im a bit snap happy today
21:16.08cycokilrjbot calls me the king..
21:16.08Trevy1I have other revanue streams
21:16.24Trevy1Little streams
21:16.29Trevy1More like trickles..
21:17.00orsonjheh
21:17.30Trevy1Anyone want to write a review/web standard topic?
21:18.00wpsI would not want to be associated with your blog in any way
21:18.41macnewboldwow, Trevy1... you apparently don't mind going out on limbs
21:18.55macnewboldmaybe you should write your blog when you're not so "snap happy"
21:19.04macnewboldwps: too late, you're in post #5 still
21:19.24Trevy1Well Im working with Chase Sagum to help get better content
21:19.35macnewboldI know square compass too, and their owner is a good guy.
21:19.43Trevy1oh well $100 down the drain for the domain name
21:19.48macnewboldwho is Chase Sagum, and why would he be providing better content for your blog?
21:19.57Trevy1he writes better than me
21:19.59macnewboldwas that $100 for one year or 10?
21:20.05Trevy110
21:20.20Trevy1oops frkeen typos
21:20.28Trevy1I was on a bit of a rampage today
21:20.57Trevy1I went to lunch with a dude who was furiouse at a previouse develepor
21:21.12Trevy1Padding hours, no communication, over budget
21:21.15Trevy1missing deadlines ect
21:21.24Trevy1And the developer is a good friend of mine
21:21.27Trevy1Its too bad
21:21.31Trevy1Ill have to blog him up
21:21.50Trevy1Chase sagum is a mission buddy of mine
21:21.59Trevy1He is more SEO pro than me
21:22.04Trevy1So we work together on occation
21:22.08Trevy1Talk smack ect.
21:22.28Trevy1I get in fights with him on a weekly basis about things
21:22.37Trevy1http://chasesagum.com
21:22.41macnewboldjust a helpful hint, but usually blogging negative and/or inflammatory comments about someone on your blog doesn't really benefit anyone much
21:22.51macnewboldeven if nobody reads the blog
21:23.20wpssomeone always reads… even if it's just Google
21:23.35macnewboldfor example, given the way you've talked about UPHPU, I wouldn't be surprised if nobody jumps at the chance to hold a conversation that you think is worth your time
21:24.01Trevy1True
21:24.38Trevy1That happens anyways
21:24.42Trevy1doesnt it?
21:25.06macnewboldwell, you'll probably get a lot fewer good answers when you want help with something than you normally would have received
21:25.17Trevy1Your probabbly right
21:26.02macnewboldI've found UPHPU, both list and IRC, to be a great resource many times over the last four years, for myself and many other people. but your (brief?) experiences with the group seem to have left you with a very different opinion, which I think is sad.
21:26.18Trevy1I priased IRC
21:26.22Trevy1praised*
21:26.32macnewboldyeah, I guess 4 of 5 isn't all bad
21:26.52wpsI don't understand your review of the mailing list
21:26.57wpsfirst, basing it off of one thread
21:26.58macnewboldthere are plenty of odd topics on the list, but that's the beauty of it - ask what you want, and if people think it is workth talking about, they'll reply
21:26.59Trevy1I have really enjoyed the IRC
21:27.03wpsand two, how you considered that thread negative
21:27.14wpshow can on you classify that thread as a flame war?
21:27.38beandogits only a flame war when we talk about mindjuju's mom
21:27.44wpsagreed
21:27.47beandogor his taste in movies
21:27.51Trevy1I want to read those emails, but its just small bickering about Photoshop vs Powerpoint
21:27.54wpsI thought it to be a positive discussion on the benefits of various software applications available for mocking up interfaces
21:28.04mindjuju~pimpslap beandog
21:28.05jbotmindjuju pimpslaps beandog.  ouch!
21:28.09beandog~love mindjuju
21:28.10jbotIf you love mindjuju so much, why don't you marry it? (oooooh)
21:28.28Trevy1I was hoping it was about interface desing, not mockups.
21:28.40Trevy1Tabular data action locations ect
21:28.48pelaofelizcycokilr: Did you ever get your sql index question answered?
21:28.51wpsso just because it wasn't what you were expecting or wasn't your cup of tea, it sucks?
21:29.06Trevy1Did I say sucks.. let me check
21:29.12wpsI was paraphrasing
21:29.22Trevy1The mailing list is pretty whack in most cases.
21:29.30Trevy1It leaves room for the good
21:29.32Trevy12 out of 5
21:30.14Trevy1Thats was my first blog entry.. not my best I guess
21:31.28Trevy1wps, are you male or female?
21:31.42beandog~wps
21:31.43jbotrumour has it, wps is Mr. Sexy Pants
21:31.44wpsI am not interested in giving you any information
21:32.03wpsas it will most assuredly appear on your blog
21:32.08Trevy1Are we enemys now?
21:32.10Trevy1haha
21:32.22wpsno, I don't have enemies
21:32.45cycokilrpelaofeliz:  nope.. it's not a big deal.. just wondering what the difference would be..
21:32.59cycokilrlike if there is an advantage to one way over the other..
21:33.03SunSparcYeah, they are all dead.
21:33.32Trevy1No worries wps, Ill just follow you home from work annd look into your windows while you sleep
21:33.53wpsI'm afraid of that
21:34.23beandogdoes anyone have any good backup scripts / or recommend some
21:34.33beandogI really should look into that rsync one ... rdiff-backup .. whatever.
21:34.35Trevy1rsync?
21:34.40mindjujuwinders backup scripts?
21:34.48beandogmindjuju, winders?  mindjuju, you pain me.
21:35.09Trevy1***wps hugs rsync <<- female
21:35.24wpsdang
21:35.28pelaofelizcycokilr: I'm not sure, since this doesn't look like real data, but "key_name_1 | INDEX | 500 | key_name_1" would be indexing just a single column, whereas "key_name_1 | INDEX | 500 | key_name_1,key_name_2,key_name_3" would be indexing the 3 columns.  Does that make sense?
21:35.54tierrabeandog: I've heard good things about rdiff-backup, though I still haven't looked at it myself
21:36.10beandogI assume its for incremental backups only
21:36.15beandogwhich I'm not really a fan of / see the point of
21:36.36tierraI can see some point to them, but it really depends on the context/situation
21:36.51wpsTrevy1:
21:37.01wpsdelete * from wp_posts
21:37.21Trevy1wps: alt + f4
21:37.32beandogtierra, I just havent read up on it, dunno how hard it is to restore stuff
21:37.52wpsany particular reason you wanted my to open the Exposé system preferences pane?
21:38.06wpss/my/me/
21:38.13cycokilrpelaofeliz:  yeah that sounds like what it looks like.. i just wonder why like in phpmyadmin if you check 3 keys and hit the 'with selected' -> index option it clusters them together..
21:38.16orsonjall alt+f4 did was close my irc terminal window
21:38.22tierraincremental backups would be used for the purposes of being able to revert back to before some change that broke something, or before things were corrupted, but those situations are usually ones where you likely should be using SCM, not rdiff...
21:38.40beandogtierra, yah, exactly.
21:38.53beandogtierra, what about a full restoration though, wouldn't it be somewhat difficult with that?
21:39.03mindjujubeandog - here is the script you're looking for
21:39.05mindjujuXCOPY C:\*.* D:\BACKUP /S /E /V /Q /G /H /R /K /O /Y
21:39.11beandogmindjuju, lmao
21:39.21beandogyou nerd
21:39.26wpsha ha
21:39.41beandogbash: xcopy: command not found
21:39.44tierrawell, I haven't used it, but I would assume it should be easy to do a full restore from any specific date
21:39.47mindjujuah, too funny
21:39.56beandogtierra, hmm
21:39.57tierrathat is kind of it's primary purpose right?
21:40.03beandogtierra, Ill poke at it, I guess.
21:40.11beandogEither way, I guess any backup > none
21:44.18SunSparcbeandog: I have a backup script I wrote to use rsync before I started using Mozy and TimeMachine.
21:44.34SunSparcIt is rather simple but worked while I used it.
21:44.43Trevy1LOL @ alt + f4
21:45.38Trevy1Ols starcraft trick
21:45.41Trevy1old*
21:45.56pelaofelizcycokilr: what do you mean 'if you check 3 keys' -- do you mean columns?
21:48.32unumso doesn't anyone know why height:400px works but height:80% won't work on a dive
21:48.34cycokilrprobably.. phpmyadmin calls them fields..
21:48.45cycokilrbut yeah, they're columns..
21:48.48fungusI use rsnapshot to backup my servers.  
21:49.15SunSparcunum:  I have not found % to be very useful for heights.
21:49.37SunSparcIn fact, I think they just plain do not work.
21:50.18unumthat would explain a lot
21:50.50cycokilrpelaofeliz:  i think i get what's it's doing.. it looks like it indexes the 3 chosen columns together somehow and just names that index's key with the first column name..
21:51.54*** part/#uphpu Trevy1 (n=Trevyn@70.0.168.176)
21:52.08PoeticIntensitywow.... looks like Trevy1 didn't make too many friends today.
21:52.22PoeticIntensity:-T
21:52.52pelaofelizcycokilr: yeah, that's what it does -- mysql will automatically generate a name for the index if you don't specify one
21:52.59SunSparcOh, he left.  Good for him
21:53.15PoeticIntensitypersonally, I find this room to be quite high on my value list.
21:53.24SunSparcPoeticIntensity: Amen to that
21:53.30SunSparcuphpu++
21:53.38PoeticIntensityI've found loads of very, very helpful information on here.
21:53.44cycokilrpelaofeliz:  so then my real curiosity here is what is the difference in indexing columns together lkike that as opposed to creating 3 separate indexes?
21:53.51PoeticIntensitymost people are very quick to answer intelligent questions...
21:53.59PoeticIntensityor at least help out...
21:54.02SunSparcAnd friendly
21:54.07cycokilrand hot
21:54.09cycokilrlike me
21:54.10SunSparcThen again, you see what you want to.
21:54.11PoeticIntensity....or are actually interested in what's going on... :)
21:54.12PoeticIntensityhehe.
21:54.31SunSparccycokilr: Right, and that.  :)
21:54.32Utah_Daveuphpu++
21:54.36cycokilrhaha, did i ever show you guys the picture i have of that synic kid?
21:54.47PoeticIntensityTBH, since I moved jobs, I haven't had many people to talk to in person here, so I use this as a "let's get away from the code" room quite a bit.
21:55.09PoeticIntensitygood times.
21:55.38SunSparcsynic is logged in right now.
21:55.44cycokilryep
21:55.45PoeticIntensityand cycokilr, I've never seen you.  I don't know if you're hot.
21:55.54cycokilroh i am..
21:55.56PoeticIntensityLOL
21:56.03cycokilrand synic hates when i show people this picture of him..
21:56.07cycokilrhe looks all crazy..
21:56.13cycokilrhttp://woodenpickle.com/images/synic.jpg
21:56.26SunSparclol
21:56.29fungusNice hair!
21:56.41SunSparcDitto
21:56.45PoeticIntensitythat's 80's hair!
21:56.53PoeticIntensityNew-Wave, bro!
21:57.06synicit took a lot of pomade to get it that way.
21:57.14PoeticIntensityand take away the drink, and he'd be a candidate for a glam-rock band with that pucker!
21:57.21wpscycokilr: are you Bob Weaver?
21:57.25cycokilryes
21:57.32wpswell howdy
21:57.41wpsI didn't know that was you
21:57.42PoeticIntensitynow Google knows who you are....
21:57.46cycokilrhttp://www.bobandkelsey.com/gallery/vacation_-_seattle_2007/p1000236.jpg
21:57.51cycokilrthat be me  and the wife..
21:58.04PoeticIntensitydude....
21:58.06PoeticIntensityyou ARE hot!
21:58.18PoeticIntensityand your wife looks like my bro's wife...
21:58.23cycokilrhey, would i lie about something that important???
21:58.25cycokilr;)
21:58.27PoeticIntensityhehe...
21:58.38cycokilrshe's from Provo..
21:58.47cycokilrwell, grew up there..
21:59.00PoeticIntensitycool..
21:59.29cycokilrbyuuug stuff..
21:59.47cycokilris that still around?
21:59.55cycokilryou gave me a printer once..
22:00.00cycokilran old HP LJ 4
22:00.06cycokilrbig sucker..
22:00.17wpsI honestly can't remember where I first met Bob and I don't think that we have actually ever met in person
22:00.21wpsbut we have talked on the phone before
22:00.30wpsit was several years ago though
22:00.43cycokilroh, yeah i wrote you some pdf download script for ellis.. early on..
22:01.02wpsyeah… way back
22:01.08PoeticIntensitywait... is cycokilr Bob, or is synic ?
22:01.13cycokilrthen you got 8000 times better at php and left me by the wayside..
22:01.23wpsI'll never forget you because of your domain
22:01.25xilch|wcycokilr is THE BOB
22:01.37xilch|wsynic is THE SUCKS
22:01.56PoeticIntensitywouldn't that be "tEh sucKs"?
22:02.07cycokilrhttp://woodenpickle.com/images/nerds.jpg
22:02.08PoeticIntensityLOL
22:02.14cycokilrthere's the synic again.. and the dataw0lf..
22:02.21cycokilrand some other kid (white shirt)
22:02.25PoeticIntensityhey... there's dataw0lf !
22:02.38tierrawhite shirt is scorche
22:02.53cycokilri know.. but i don't think most of the room here knows him..
22:02.55PoeticIntensitylooks like synic just hosed dataw0lf in that picture.
22:02.56synicI don't even remember what game I was playing.
22:02.57tierrawho I don't think this channel as seen before
22:08.13*** join/#uphpu Trevy1 (n=Trevyn@70.0.168.176)
22:08.16Trevy1http://www.utahwebstandards.com/can-i-look-at-your-portfolio/
22:08.21Trevy1About designers
22:12.21mgearyhah
22:12.31mgearyIf a web design firm cannot have a sweet looking website than they should just be out of business. Period!
22:12.36Trevy1Thats in hah?
22:12.37mgearybold words
22:13.30Trevy1I wasthinging abut starting a website called impeachthatsite.com
22:13.34mgearya design/development firm that has a kick-butt site is often allocating their funds and energies poorly
22:13.48mgearyour website sucks
22:13.51beandogmgeary, agreed
22:14.01mgearyheh, on both counts, beandog ? ;)
22:14.06beandogeh, first one
22:14.22mgearyin fact, check this out--
22:14.23mgearyhttp://www.dng.com/
22:14.29mgearythat's a client of ours. they're an ad agency
22:14.44Trevy1I love it
22:14.50beandogheh
22:14.51Trevy1Design is not allways heavy
22:14.51beandogthats great.
22:14.51mgearythey do awesome work for Kia, Universal Studios, and others
22:15.06Trevy1Post that link in comments
22:15.09mgearynah
22:15.36mgearyjust saying, if you're really good, chances are you're waaay to busy to worry about your own site
22:15.46Trevy1I feel the same way
22:16.53mgearyhrm. that's not what i would have inferred from your post
22:17.33mindjujusup cycokilr - how's the baby?
22:18.01DexterTheDragonobviously you've had time to make 7 blog post so far today
22:18.25Trevy1\I didnt write it
22:18.30cycokilrthe baby is getting huge.. she's gained a pound a week pretty steady since she was born..
22:18.30Trevy1Also, that site does kick ass
22:18.35Trevy1Crumbs and everything
22:19.00mindjuju@ cycokilr - that's awesome!  She's a month and a half now, right?
22:19.13Trevy1DexterTheDragon: what do you mean?
22:19.16*** join/#uphpu n3bulus9 (i=4207727d@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6b64a6ce2415f59d)
22:19.28cycokilrmindjuju:  yeah she is..
22:20.21cycokilri'm trying to teach her to talk by 2 months..
22:20.31mindjujuheh
22:20.44mindjujuthe only thing that my son mastered by 2 was poopin his diapers
22:20.45cycokilrshe can say "Hi" pretty regular now.. if she's not too hungry and grouchy..
22:20.57mindjuju2 months, that is
22:21.46mindjujui had a bad dream once where instead of putting diapers on, my wife using using dollar bills and my son just would not stop poopin on my money
22:22.01n3bulus9Teach her to say onomatopoeia
22:22.04mindjujui had big issues with disposable diapers, thought cloth would have been the way to go to save a buck
22:22.35beandogmindjuju, lol
22:23.16pelaofelizcycokilr: so when you index multiple columns together in mysql, it will potentially use all 3 fields in the index.  e.g. select * from foo where A='x', B='y', C='z'.  If you have an index on column A, it will (usually) do an indexed lookup on A, then scan those results for matches on B & C.  If you have an index on columns A, B, & C, then it will have all the results straight from the index, which is obviously much faster.
22:23.23mindjujudude beandog, when you got some youngins kickin' around poopin like mad, and each one costs money... it'll drive you batty
22:24.03mindjujumoney for diapers, money for wipes, money for baby power, money for diaper rash ointment, money money money....
22:24.13cycokilrpelaofeliz:  ahh, interesting.. that's understandable.. thanks for the clarification..
22:24.26beandogmindjuju, Ill just let em run around in the back yard like animals
22:24.38mindjujui should have thunk of that
22:24.40beandogfertilize the lawn
22:24.43mindjujucould have saved some $$
22:25.28mindjujufortunately, we're past that stage
22:25.40*** part/#uphpu Trevy1 (n=Trevyn@70.0.168.176)
22:26.00unumso it looks like height:% works on firefox 3
22:29.05SunSparcunum: Sweet :)  Now if the other major browsers will do it also that will be very nice.
22:32.21cycokilrwow, i don't know if my 9 year old could say onomatopoeia very easily..
22:33.17SunSparcI have a hard time with it myself.
22:33.19SunSparc:)
22:34.39macnewboldwow, that Trevy guy is a character
22:34.56macnewboldof course, these logs are public so he might very well see this
22:35.10n3bulus9An unsavory one character at that.
22:35.23SunSparcAnd then he will post them all.
22:35.26SunSparc:)
22:35.49SunSparcSeems a bit immature.
22:36.07macnewbold~lart beandog's blog
22:36.07jbotdeclares beandog's blog a moron
22:36.11SunSparcHmmm, like I am at all mature.
22:36.30macnewboldyeah, like any of us are mature
22:36.32beandogmy maturity is all a twitter
22:36.38SunSparchehe
22:36.44macnewboldI don't quite know what to say about that
22:36.46fungushttp://www.jinx.com/men/shirts/geek/nobody_reads_my_blog.html
22:36.57SunSparcI think being geeks makes us immature by our very nature.
22:37.38DexterTheDragonimmature yes, but not jerks
22:38.07SunSparcDexterTheDragon: Good separation.
22:38.16DexterTheDragonand the 'nobody reads my blog' is my shirt and nobody else is allowed to get it
22:38.24SunSparclol
22:45.00PoeticIntensityok...
22:45.08PoeticIntensityI"ve got a PHP-based question (imagine that)...
22:45.20macnewboldby the way, HAPPY BIRTHDAY BEANDOG!
22:45.24PoeticIntensitywhat do ya'll think of "allow_url_fopen"...>?
22:45.24macnewbold~sing beandog
22:45.35PoeticIntensityaw, man, macnewbold... ya trumped me...
22:45.41PoeticIntensityIt's your b-day, beandog ?
22:45.48macnewboldI bet I'm the first one to wish you a happy birthday, since it really is tomorrow :-D
22:46.21SunSparcParty for beandog!
22:46.23beandogmacnewbold, heh, yah
22:46.26beandogits tomorrow
22:46.41SunSparcPoeticIntensity: I like "allow_url_fopen" for certain things.
22:46.49PoeticIntensityyou've got some serious explaining to do, Mr. beandog.
22:47.21beandogi can haz driverz license?
22:47.26PoeticIntensityWell.... I'm going through the pros 'n' cons of turning it on for our production server...
22:47.46SunSparcPoeticIntensity: What would you be using it for?
22:47.47PoeticIntensityIt's entirely too convenient for my store locator, using it with geonames...
22:47.57PoeticIntensityotherwise, I'd keep it off.
22:48.26PoeticIntensityI'm not totally hip to the Cross-site-scripting hacks, so... I'm not 100% sure I've kept my site free from crud like that..
22:48.28SunSparcJust make sure you know who is running scripts on the server and lock down what you have
22:48.42PoeticIntensityand I hear that turning that on makes it vulnerable...
22:48.51SunSparcPoeticIntensity: Depending on what you are doing you could just use SOAP.
22:49.03PoeticIntensitythe services I'm subscribing to use REST.
22:49.14PoeticIntensitywhich requires (AFAIK) the use of urls as files.
22:49.27PoeticIntensityI'm wondering if I could do the same thing with CURL, and if so - would it be any more secure?
22:51.43PoeticIntensityhmm.... no takers...
22:51.48SunSparc:)
22:51.55PoeticIntensitycep you, SunSparc.... Thank you.
22:52.14PoeticIntensityalso... nobody is gonna be running anything on this server except me.
22:52.15SunSparcI think that if you have holes in your scripts it would not matter much which options you leave open
22:52.32SunSparcCause someone will hack them.
22:52.50PoeticIntensityunless the hole itself is only exploited through the use of a URL as a file....
22:52.52SunSparcsomeone == 12 year old kiddie running bot scripts
22:52.59PoeticIntensityyeah...
22:53.16PoeticIntensityI'm fairly sure I'm okay....
22:53.29PoeticIntensityI'm just not too well educated on the XSS hacking..
22:53.51SunSparcI have a script on a page on one of my servers using fopen to pull in rss feeds.
22:54.00PoeticIntensityyeah...
22:54.06SunSparcHandy
22:54.10PoeticIntensityanyway... I just thought I'd put it out there....
22:54.14PoeticIntensityand yes... it's waaaay too handy.
22:54.22PoeticIntensitythe functionality it allows is amazing.
22:54.25SunSparcI think everyone is just ready to go home.
22:54.33PoeticIntensitythanks again, SunSparc
22:54.38SunSparcnp
22:58.41beandoghttp://www.boingboing.net/2008/03/19/phantom-keystroker-p.html
23:00.33wpsthat character in the BoingBoing logo scares the crap out of me
23:00.38SunSparcHey, I posted that this morning.  :)
23:00.52SunSparcwps: lol
23:01.13SunSparchttp://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/a11e
23:02.37beandogheh
23:02.48SunSparcGreat minds
23:02.58Utah_Davethat looks really cool
23:02.59SunSparcI am just trying to figure out who to use it on
23:03.25SunSparcIt would actually be even cooler if they made it into a USB drive-like dongle.
23:03.50SunSparcMost people I know use laptops so they would catch on quick.
23:10.21mindjujui love how it clearly states that the victim's computer needs to have USB
23:11.11SunSparcGotta cover their bases.  ;)
23:11.22macnewboldapril fools is coming quickly
23:11.25SunSparcFor those few idiots out there.
23:11.43SunSparcYeah, gotta think me up so gags...
23:12.13SunSparcThe problem with pranks is that if you do them, you are bound to get them back.  Karma.
23:12.45mindjujuyou just have to be mindful or have the USB missile sentry system
23:13.09SunSparcYes, and other cubicle protection systems.
23:13.27mindjujuor me, i have a prog that takes a snapshot with my usb cameraevery couple of minutes and then compares to previous, if variant, then email me w/ pic
23:13.36mindjujuby the guy who did displayfusion, not too shabby
23:13.43mindjujubut then again, itsnever sent men anything
23:14.30SunSparcI did that at a previous job.  Caught some interesting goings on.  My co-worker did it to and caught a cleaning crew member swiping things out of his drawer.
23:14.52mindjujureally!  that sux!
23:15.05SunSparcYeah, lame.
23:17.27beandogall Ive got is Twinkies
23:18.00beandogand someone's gonna lose a limb if they take those
23:18.02SunSparcDefinitely worth pilfering
23:18.08SunSparcheh
23:25.18timinatorI'm out guys... see ya later
23:28.51SunSparcIch auch.  Tchuß bis morgen.
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23:40.31brastomacnewbold: i'll be there a bit late - around 6:15
23:41.13brastoif you want to start it without me, you can, but we may want to wait about 15 minutes or so anyway.  You make the call.
23:41.57mindjujuare ya'll having udbug today?
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23:47.07Utah_Davetalk to you tomorrow, mindjuju
23:47.10*** part/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=David_Bo@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net)
23:58.37mindjujufungus, you still around?
23:58.45fungusyup

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