| 00:04.05 | SunSparc | You prefer solar powered? |
| 00:04.14 | mgeary | actually, i use mouse-powered mice |
| 00:04.16 | SunSparc | Or perhaps hydrogen powered? |
| 00:04.21 | mgeary | have a little wheel here |
| 00:04.22 | SunSparc | sweet! |
| 00:04.31 | SunSparc | I would like to see a picture of that |
| 00:04.46 | beandog | piccies! |
| 00:05.49 | mgeary | he wears a little colander-looking hat with wires attached to it |
| 00:06.01 | mgeary | i can push a button, and he thinks he's eating a nice piece of peanut butter |
| 00:08.00 | mindjuju | i myself ahve a laser mouse pwoered on mentos and diet coke where the energy is harnessed by a nanoturbine |
| 00:14.41 | SunSparc | Speaking of nanoturbines... |
| 00:32.31 | timinator | I'm out.... later guys |
| 00:37.04 | mindjuju | is it true that you can't transfer a domain 90 days after a renewal? |
| 00:37.20 | mindjuju | i've never heard that before, i know 90 days to renwal, but afterwards? |
| 00:37.32 | mindjuju | that's freakin half the year right there |
| 00:43.56 | beandog | uh |
| 00:44.01 | beandog | dont you mean a quarter? |
| 00:44.02 | beandog | :) |
| 00:44.14 | beandog | oh, between them both |
| 00:44.22 | beandog | I think its okay to transfer before 90 days |
| 00:44.47 | beandog | and when did domain transfers become the model of red tape? |
| 00:45.57 | mindjuju | yeah between the both |
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| 01:50.46 | beandog | crap |
| 01:50.50 | beandog | I can never remember this |
| 01:51.05 | beandog | how do you select the last inserted id on mysql of new record |
| 01:51.10 | beandog | in mssql its select @@identity |
| 01:52.42 | beandog | oh |
| 01:52.44 | beandog | theres a php function. |
| 01:52.47 | beandog | well thats easy. |
| 01:53.36 | beandog | select last_insert_id(); |
| 01:53.37 | beandog | rawk. |
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| 04:29.12 | jgiboney | never put much faith in Ruby on Rails, i can't get it to work for the life of me |
| 04:35.00 | jgiboney | I love php |
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| 15:41.55 | mindjuju | morning gents |
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| 15:42.22 | orsonj | morning |
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| 16:04.06 | mindjuju | ok, i freely admit it, I thought I had bad days - http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/12/photogalleries/topphotos-pictures/photo9.html |
| 16:04.13 | mindjuju | but that freakin' takes the cake |
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| 16:12.39 | mgeary | morning |
| 16:13.19 | mindjuju | morning mgeary |
| 16:13.55 | influx^^ | good morning. |
| 16:14.19 | influx^^ | Air Force Cyber Command! |
| 16:14.30 | mgeary | heh. yeah, read about that last night |
| 16:15.11 | influx^^ | I entertained the idea of joining the AF just for that. |
| 16:15.23 | influx^^ | Though, I dont' know enough technically, yet. |
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| 16:36.46 | timinator | morning |
| 16:36.52 | mindjuju | morning |
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| 17:27.47 | thebigdog | is there a key binding for refreshing IE page and clearing cache? |
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| 17:29.37 | pelaofeliz | thebigdog: ctrl+F5 should do a 'hard' refresh -- it'll reload all references from the server (css, javascript, images, etc.). It doesn't really clear the cache, though. |
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| 17:31.42 | dataw0lf | >_< http://le.utah.gov/~2008/bills/sbillint/sb0260.htm |
| 17:32.17 | bigdog_ut | pelaofeliz, ty that is what i was looking for...too much FF for me |
| 17:32.26 | wps | banner ads are bad enough but it is so annoying when the same ad is running more than ones on the same page |
| 17:32.56 | pelaofeliz | bigdog_ut: ctrl+F5 works on FF too, I think |
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| 17:33.20 | dataw0lf | ? |
| 17:33.28 | dataw0lf | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:33.39 | dataw0lf | err, thebigdog* |
| 17:34.09 | bigdog_ut | ty dataw0lf ...im not sure why the connection was still there though |
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| 18:14.30 | wps | I have been approached by a company that wants to be banners ads on the website that advertise local job openings. I would never put banner ads on the site, but since these are slightly different (advertising local jobs instead of products), I haven't immediately written it off. Personally, I had banner ads and find them very annoying. I also think that people are trained to ignore banner ads now and that job ones won't be very affective. I also believe (and our stat |
| 18:15.14 | dataw0lf | you cut off at "I also believe (and our sta" |
| 18:16.28 | wps | sorry… that was really long |
| 18:17.14 | wps | here it comes in three chunks |
| 18:17.21 | wps | I have been approached by a company that wants to be banners ads on the website that advertise local job openings. I would never put banner ads on the site, but since these are slightly different (advertising local jobs instead of products), I haven't immediately written it off. |
| 18:17.32 | wps | Personally, I had banner ads and find them very annoying. I also think that people are trained to ignore banner ads now and that job ones won't be very affective. I also believe (and our stats confirm) that most of us don't visit the site much… the group exists here and via the mailing list. |
| 18:17.38 | wps | I also believe that people like us much prefer our content to be delivered to us (opposed to having to remember to go check a website) and thus the reason that we have a job announcement mailing list. Thoughts? |
| 18:17.48 | influx^^ | Eh... |
| 18:17.50 | influx^^ | Hmm. |
| 18:17.59 | wps | s/had banner ads/hate banner ads/ |
| 18:18.08 | influx^^ | What company is this? |
| 18:18.23 | influx^^ | How might the group and the company benefit from this? |
| 18:18.32 | influx^^ | In addition to the receiving of money. |
| 18:18.47 | wps | I'm under NDA |
| 18:18.53 | influx^^ | Hmm. |
| 18:18.53 | dataw0lf | you gotta consider this: do you really want a job applicant that responded to a banner ad? |
| 18:19.08 | influx^^ | Good question. |
| 18:19.31 | wps | I just don't think that it's an effective way to find people |
| 18:19.42 | influx^^ | Not as effective as other ways. |
| 18:20.08 | influx^^ | I might click a banner, but I hardly ever do since most of them are poorly designed. |
| 18:20.14 | influx^^ | Not graphically, necessarily... |
| 18:20.31 | influx^^ | ...but it doesn't get my attention in a way I respect or find intriguing. |
| 18:21.41 | influx^^ | I prefer something like the mailing list to a banner ad because I know the group better than a banner ad on internet website x. |
| 18:21.43 | dataw0lf | I generally have them blocked |
| 18:22.02 | influx^^ | I leave them unblocked on sites that I repeatedly visit. |
| 18:22.11 | influx^^ | But, yeah. |
| 18:22.15 | influx^^ | Generally I don't pay attention to them. |
| 18:22.41 | wps | beyond ad revenue, we could benefit by an increase in job announcements, but I can't see much beyond that |
| 18:22.57 | wps | and I don't care or want to make money of the site or group |
| 18:23.03 | wps | s/of/off/ |
| 18:23.05 | influx^^ | Is there a better way to increase the number of job announcements that are of a good quality? |
| 18:23.19 | wps | personally, I am perfectly fine with how they are going |
| 18:23.20 | orsonj | I don't specifically block ads, but I block scripting/flash and that ends up blocking most ads anyway. |
| 18:23.22 | wps | this company approached me |
| 18:23.51 | wps | people like us like our content via mailing lists or syndicated feeds |
| 18:23.56 | influx^^ | Yes. |
| 18:24.25 | wps | so I suggested to the company that if they can provide an XML feed, I would be happy to tie it into our existing job announcement mailing list and perhaps offer a job announcement RSS feed |
| 18:25.28 | influx^^ | It could lead to their widget. |
| 18:25.36 | influx^^ | And then to the job from there. |
| 18:26.26 | dataw0lf | dang finding a nice house in little cottonwood that allows pets is hard |
| 18:26.40 | influx^^ | Are you moving back to Utah? |
| 18:26.41 | wps | what kind of pet do you have, dataw0lf ? |
| 18:26.50 | influx^^ | You could probably talk them into allowing the pet, no? |
| 18:27.05 | influx^^ | Haha. |
| 18:27.15 | influx^^ | Aren't mastiffs rather tall? |
| 18:27.20 | wps | they're huge |
| 18:27.35 | wps | A guy I met in Missouri had two INDOORS! |
| 18:27.40 | influx^^ | Haha. |
| 18:27.52 | wps | when I was sitting on the couch and they were sitting on the floor in front of me, we were face-to-face |
| 18:28.02 | jsmith | wps: Funny... my old boss lived in Missouri, and he had two indoors. |
| 18:28.06 | wps | and I don't mean slouched back in the couch |
| 18:28.19 | wps | sitting on the edge of the couch with my back straight up |
| 18:28.30 | wps | jsmith: how strange |
| 18:29.44 | influx^^ | Holy mackerel. |
| 18:30.43 | influx^^ | http://www.gentlegiantsrescue.com/images/giant%20English%20Mastiff.jpg |
| 18:30.45 | influx^^ | gah |
| 18:31.00 | dataw0lf | nah, I just have two ferrets, but we're probably going to get a dog too |
| 18:31.14 | PoeticIntensity | yeah... |
| 18:31.18 | PoeticIntensity | mastiff's are small horses. |
| 18:31.37 | wps | more like lions |
| 18:31.56 | influx^^ | Slobbery lions. |
| 18:31.58 | influx^^ | ;D |
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| 19:01.04 | wps | I hate the word "shiz" with a royal passion |
| 19:01.14 | wps | ~lart people that fake swear |
| 19:01.14 | jbot | resizes people that fake swear's terminal to 40x24 |
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| 19:07.38 | bradym | wps: ping |
| 19:12.58 | wps | here |
| 19:13.41 | bradym | just wanted to let you know that uphpu.org is pulling the ugaf.org rss feed |
| 19:18.20 | thebigdog | that was his plan ;) |
| 19:18.36 | bradym | of course it was :) |
| 19:19.50 | wps | thats what I get for copy-n-pasting code |
| 19:19.52 | wps | fixed |
| 19:19.52 | wps | thanks |
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| 19:43.00 | eggyknap | Question: is there going to be another UDBUG meeting soon (tomorrow, if I'm counting right?) |
| 19:43.17 | herlo | eggyknap: you'd be counting wrong |
| 19:43.21 | eggyknap | ...but not tomorrow because of V-day, perahps :) |
| 19:43.30 | herlo | eggyknap: its supposed to be the 4th thursday now |
| 19:43.41 | eggyknap | I expected I was counting wrong. Thanks for the correction. |
| 19:43.44 | herlo | np |
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| 20:43.53 | dataw0lf | dang it's hard looking for a job a couple months out |
| 20:45.24 | brasto | dataw0lf's lookin' for a job? |
| 20:48.20 | dataw0lf | yea, moving back to Salt Lake |
| 20:56.02 | brasto | herlo, I may make Saturday's meeting, who knows, I may have a lot of extra time for a short while after tomorrows meeting... |
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| 21:21.59 | PoeticIntensity | php / db question: |
| 21:22.09 | PoeticIntensity | I need to write a store locator for this site... |
| 21:22.20 | PoeticIntensity | anyone know of any freebies out there? |
| 21:22.31 | PoeticIntensity | Like a lat / long zipcode database dump? |
| 21:23.44 | mindjuju | thebigdog, swb and dataw0lf have done map stuff using PHP AFAIK |
| 21:25.02 | dataw0lf | if you don't want to go through Google Maps (they supply a geocode database), you can use geonames.org |
| 21:25.16 | PoeticIntensity | I'm just doing some preliminary research on paid / free stuff I could use... |
| 21:25.27 | PoeticIntensity | I see... |
| 21:25.30 | PoeticIntensity | thanks dataw0lf |
| 21:25.47 | jsmith | PoeticIntensity: Yahoo has a geocode API as well |
| 21:26.15 | dataw0lf | I've been meaning to play with YUI |
| 21:26.51 | PoeticIntensity | thanks, guys... |
| 21:35.41 | thebigdog | PoeticIntensity, if you dont want to use a 3rd party then you need to look at "tiger data" |
| 21:35.51 | thebigdog | but that stuff gets complicated |
| 21:35.52 | mindjuju | hmmm... Rupert Murdoch v Steve Balmer - now that's a cage fight i got to see - http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/microsoft_yahoo |
| 21:36.50 | mgeary | hey all-- is there a use for robots.txt files besides to tell 'bots about pages that *shouldn't* be indexed? I've never really bothered with 'em |
| 21:40.53 | PoeticIntensity | http://googlemapsapi.blogspot.com/2008/01/article-creating-store-locator-with-php.html |
| 21:40.58 | wps | I never have either, mgeary |
| 21:40.59 | PoeticIntensity | not too shabby, dare I say.... :) |
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| 21:44.10 | dataw0lf | mgeary: You can allow certain bots, too, and set a crawl-delay |
| 21:47.59 | mgeary | eeh |
| 21:51.08 | justingiboney | where would my apache2 log be if apache2 exists in /etc/apache2 |
| 21:51.26 | PoeticIntensity | /var/log is a common place. |
| 21:51.29 | PoeticIntensity | /var/log/apache2 |
| 21:52.48 | dataw0lf | or /var/log/httpd |
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| 21:53.42 | mgeary | could also be /usr/local/apache2/log |
| 21:54.02 | mgeary | just do httpd -V |
| 21:54.11 | justingiboney | I am getting this error when trying to start apache: NameVirtualHost *:0 has no VirtualHosts |
| 21:54.23 | mgeary | that's a warning, not an error |
| 21:54.35 | PoeticIntensity | try *:80 instead... :) |
| 21:54.51 | PoeticIntensity | nah... that won't do jack. |
| 21:54.53 | justingiboney | where do i try that? |
| 21:54.56 | PoeticIntensity | nevermind. |
| 21:55.01 | PoeticIntensity | that's not the problem. |
| 21:55.13 | justingiboney | i have tried disabling the defaut host |
| 21:55.17 | mgeary | justingiboney: so is apache not starting? |
| 21:55.25 | PoeticIntensity | that's what's causing the error.... |
| 21:55.28 | justingiboney | mgeary yes |
| 21:55.44 | PoeticIntensity | if you disable the default host without having any virtual hosts, it, in essence, disables all hosts... |
| 21:55.57 | justingiboney | well, i'll enable it again |
| 21:56.45 | justingiboney | it still ahs the problem |
| 21:58.49 | justingiboney | okay, it has something to do with some virtual hosts I added, so there must be something in one of those files |
| 21:58.51 | justingiboney | thanks |
| 22:02.06 | justingiboney | Is there a limit on the number of virtual hosts that apache can support? |
| 22:02.25 | mgeary | no |
| 22:12.01 | orsonj | take 1and1 for example... |
| 22:12.05 | brasto | ~AFAIK |
| 22:12.06 | jbot | somebody said afaik was some kind of acronym...but nobody knows what it means, as far as I know. |
| 22:12.46 | dataw0lf | heh |
| 22:13.36 | orsonj | that would be an interesting "contest" What hosting company can fit the most virtual hosts on one server? |
| 22:14.05 | brasto | it also depends on your distro, justingiboney - in freebsd it would be in /usr/local/apache2/logs |
| 22:14.44 | orsonj | bonus points for using VMs to run windows and linux on the same box. |
| 22:15.37 | brasto | ~dict afaik |
| 22:17.05 | brasto | mindjuju, when you said swb and dataw0lf did map stuff with PHP AFAIK, I thought you were referring to some new PHP module called AFIAK... |
| 22:17.27 | orsonj | heh |
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| 22:19.15 | orsonj | actually, the AFAIK module is also called wordpress |
| 22:20.35 | dataw0lf | I don't think AFAIK stands for "Crappy PHP Application" |
| 22:20.39 | thebigdog | orsonj, i have run 4 vms on one box all at the same time...which is pretty intensive |
| 22:20.59 | beandog | dataw0lf, heh |
| 22:21.53 | mgeary | ~lart whoever thought it would be a good idea for OS X Server's www user to have a ulimit of 256 open files |
| 22:21.53 | jbot | beats the living hamstercrap out of whoever thought it would be a good idea for OS X Server's www user to have a ulimit of 256 open files |
| 22:22.12 | beandog | hamstercrap++ |
| 22:23.42 | mgeary | anyone know the usual way of changing the ulimit -n value permanently? |
| 22:23.56 | thebigdog | def file |
| 22:23.59 | beandog | upgrade to gentoo |
| 22:24.07 | thebigdog | hehe |
| 22:24.10 | mgeary | def file? |
| 22:25.29 | dataw0lf | obviously the Gentoo users don't know how to do it |
| 22:25.33 | dataw0lf | But a Debian user does! |
| 22:25.37 | dataw0lf | mgeary: change sysctl.conf |
| 22:25.52 | thebigdog | mgeary, /etc/limits |
| 22:26.17 | thebigdog | not sure on osx |
| 22:26.18 | mgeary | OS X apparently doesn't use /etc/limits. I do have /etc/sysctl.conf |
| 22:26.21 | dataw0lf | then change /etc/security/limits.conf |
| 22:26.30 | thebigdog | yeah something like that |
| 22:26.34 | dataw0lf | /etc/limits? pshaw |
| 22:26.36 | fungus | http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=200311151254441 |
| 22:26.56 | mgeary | nice, thanks fungus |
| 22:27.29 | mgeary | hrm |
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| 22:27.41 | mgeary | that page doesn't have anything specifically addressing # of open *files* |
| 22:28.06 | mgeary | kern.maxfiles |
| 22:28.09 | dataw0lf | do you have a limits.conf? |
| 22:28.24 | dataw0lf | yes, you have to make sure that the kernel setting in sysctl isn't exceeded |
| 22:28.43 | dataw0lf | so check kern.maxfiles (if that's a fine ceiling, move on to limits.conf) |
| 22:30.17 | dataw0lf | once you get to limits.conf, adding this line should be sufficient: * - nofile 1024 |
| 22:30.20 | dataw0lf | or whatever you want the limit to be in place of 1024 |
| 22:30.39 | dataw0lf | obviously had that line where all the other domain / limit rules have been set |
| 22:31.02 | dataw0lf | s/had/add |
| 22:31.32 | dataw0lf | of course, OS X sucks, so who knows if their limits.conf is completely screwed like the rest of the system |
| 22:31.48 | fungus | mgeary: you can tweak it in your launchd.plist file |
| 22:32.03 | dataw0lf | ha! it is! |
| 22:32.03 | fungus | See man launchd.plist for usage |
| 22:32.37 | *** part/#uphpu brasto (n=brasto@out.lnxi.com) |
| 22:34.31 | fungus | BTW, /System/Library/LaunchDaemons/org.apache.httpd.plist |
| 22:34.53 | dataw0lf | or /system/library/launchdaeoms/ORG.APACHE.HTTPD.PLIST |
| 22:34.58 | dataw0lf | since HFS+ is case insensitive |
| 22:36.16 | beandog | that is evil. |
| 22:36.55 | fungus | HFS+ can be case-sensitive, but is not by default |
| 22:37.32 | dataw0lf | how can HFS+ be case sensitive |
| 22:37.57 | dataw0lf | installation parameter? |
| 22:38.04 | dataw0lf | is YOUR HFS+ case sensitive? |
| 22:38.11 | fungus | http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=107863 |
| 22:38.20 | mgeary | it's case-PRESERVING, but not case-sensitive |
| 22:38.23 | mgeary | which is funky |
| 22:38.26 | fungus | it's an option at formatting |
| 22:39.07 | fungus | But some OSX apps are stupid and will fail if it is case-sensitive. |
| 22:39.25 | dataw0lf | oh so it really isn't an option |
| 22:39.59 | fungus | It can be if you are careful to avoid the bad apps. |
| 22:40.31 | dataw0lf | I'd be interested in seeing the list of bad apps |
| 22:40.45 | fungus | or careful not to change the case of filenames after installation |
| 22:41.27 | fungus | so far, i only know of 1. |
| 22:41.32 | fungus | Starcraft |
| 22:43.00 | dataw0lf | I'd rather run Windows Me |
| 22:43.26 | beandog | heh |
| 22:43.53 | dataw0lf | at least if you run Windows Me people don't automatically assume you're a half-starving homosexual artist that's living off his parents when you break out your laptop |
| 22:45.37 | fungus | No, they just assume you are brain-dead. |
| 22:46.14 | dataw0lf | ah but the hardware I have when running Windows Me can easily be switched to Linux |
| 22:46.39 | dataw0lf | unless someone has finally reverse engineered the crap AirPort drivers and you can run wireless via Linux on an Apple laptop |
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| 22:50.01 | orsonj | Nice! FedEx tracking showed a package as delivered within two minutes of it landing on my desk. |
| 22:51.10 | orsonj | USPS usually shows delivery a day or two later. |
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| 22:51.57 | fungus | That's unfair, there are a great deal many laptops that have the same wireless driver issues on linux. It's not an Apple-only issue. |
| 22:52.20 | beandog | fungus, its an apple-only issue if youre paying for your OS. :) |
| 22:52.26 | fungus | It's a wifi manufacturer problem. |
| 22:52.33 | beandog | we hipster freebie linux users are used to those issues. |
| 22:52.36 | beandog | oh. |
| 22:52.37 | beandog | nvm. |
| 22:52.44 | beandog | le fail. |
| 22:53.32 | dataw0lf | y'know with any other company, if they released a product that included a card as closed source as Broadcom chips, you'd be all over them, fungus |
| 22:54.12 | dataw0lf | I don't know how you sleep at night with Apple raping open source left and right, with that chip on your shoulder you have about closed source and anti-competitive companies |
| 22:54.29 | dataw0lf | just because Microsoft doesn't have the same suave PR doesn't mean they're worse |
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| 22:56.24 | dataw0lf | "yes, let me purchase an operating system that swiped a bunch of BSD stuff yet decided to go to the kernel architecure that resulted in Linux being written in the first place" |
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| 22:57.01 | mgeary | okay, i've got my launchd plist in place, but i don't want to reboot right now. I've tried "sudo -u www ulimit -n 1024" with no results |
| 22:57.06 | mgeary | but "ulimit -n 1024" *did* work on my login |
| 22:57.08 | mgeary | any thoughts |
| 22:57.24 | dataw0lf | probably needs ENV stuff |
| 22:57.47 | dataw0lf | try actually switching to the www user |
| 22:58.15 | mgeary | weird. it's there |
| 22:58.17 | mgeary | 1024 |
| 22:58.39 | fungus | mgeary: you probably don't have to reboot, just restart apache |
| 22:58.55 | mgeary | is there a way to get a ulimit output for a user without doing "sudo -u <user> ulimit" ? |
| 22:59.50 | mgeary | bingo |
| 22:59.57 | mgeary | i can now add more vhosts |
| 22:59.58 | mgeary | whew |
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| 23:21.13 | orsonj | do tables not inherit font size properly using css? |
| 23:24.50 | mindjuju | depends on where the CSS speci is specified |
| 23:24.57 | mindjuju | if it on the body then i believe it will |
| 23:25.05 | mgeary | sweet. I've only got 46 messages in my to-do box now. that's the lowest it's been in weeks |
| 23:25.42 | orsonj | I set a font size on body, then set table to 100% to get it to inherit. |
| 23:26.28 | orsonj | This is what I was playing with: http://tetratech.info/orson/ppp/ppp3.1_cards.php |
| 23:26.49 | orsonj | (click the link, it expands to a terribly long url) |
| 23:38.03 | dataw0lf | if you didn't see my mailing list post |
| 23:38.07 | dataw0lf | PHP 5.3 is getting namespaces |
| 23:39.22 | mindjuju | that's cool! |
| 23:39.29 | mindjuju | does that mean you'll like php? |
| 23:39.38 | dataw0lf | well |
| 23:39.40 | dataw0lf | I'll hate it less |
| 23:39.41 | dataw0lf | :D |
| 23:39.47 | mindjuju | :) |
| 23:41.44 | dataw0lf | my primary concern is that they won't retroactively apply namespaces to their huge current global namespace |
| 23:41.53 | dataw0lf | like they did with exceptions |
| 23:42.04 | dataw0lf | you can't just pile on feature after feature without adopting it in your core library |
| 23:46.56 | fungus | They are probably going to adopt it in v6 |
| 23:47.23 | fungus | To do that 5.3 would probably be disastrous compatibility wise. |
| 23:49.51 | mgeary | it'd be nice if they'd add support for both, and then deprecate the old way |
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