| 03:14.37 | bradym | anyone around? |
| 03:18.10 | olds | sup |
| 03:18.26 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v influx^^] by ChanServ |
| 03:21.31 | bradym | trying to figure out if there's a way to get mysql to replace multiple characters in a string without having to do nested REPLACE() calls |
| 03:21.36 | bradym | any ideas? |
| 03:22.45 | RedHeron | bradym: PHP might handle that? |
| 03:23.58 | bradym | yeah, trying to match a url string to a db field so trying to get mysql to do it |
| 03:24.26 | bradym | i might just add another field to the table with the url.. probably be better performance wise |
| 03:27.07 | bradym | yeah, gonna do that.. was hoping maybe there'd be some function i don't know about that could do multiple replaces at once to handle it |
| 03:27.56 | RedHeron | Not in the docs. |
| 03:28.42 | bradym | yeah, i don't always trust the mysql docs though... considering that the only way i can ever find something in there is via google.. |
| 03:29.49 | olds | +bradym> yeah, trying to match a url string to a db field so trying to get mysql to do it |
| 03:30.01 | olds | what exactly is that? |
| 03:30.24 | olds | why do you need to match a url string to do replace calls? |
| 03:31.44 | bradym | the url string is like this-is-the-string -- which is based on the title field in a table, that could also have other characters like & ( ), etc -- need to match the url string with the title.. was trying to avoid creating an extra field in the db |
| 03:32.10 | bradym | so the replace would strip out any non-legal chars to match against the url string |
| 03:33.07 | olds | I would strip those out with php |
| 03:34.39 | olds | and the REPLACE command in mysql doesn't really have much to do with strings, it's for replacing rows |
| 03:35.09 | olds | http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/replace.html |
| 03:35.14 | bradym | there's a replace function too |
| 03:35.24 | olds | oh |
| 03:35.26 | bradym | http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/string-functions.html#function_replace |
| 03:35.27 | olds | I've never used it |
| 03:35.38 | olds | odd |
| 03:35.43 | olds | shows what I know :) |
| 03:36.22 | bradym | hehe... i'm reminded pretty much daily of how little i know... ;) |
| 03:37.04 | olds | could you use some sort of regex? |
| 03:37.17 | olds | to strip out non alpha numeric characters |
| 03:38.21 | bradym | that's what i was hoping for, but the only regex stuff i can find in mysql is matching against regex.. and then it just gives you true or false.. |
| 03:39.12 | bradym | the more i think about it though, the more i realize that having a seperate column with the url version in the table is going to be much better in terms of performance |
| 03:41.40 | olds | http://forge.mysql.com/projects/view.php?id=86 |
| 03:41.53 | olds | http://www.php-groupies.de/blogs/archives/17-Regular-Expression-Functions-for-MySQL.html |
| 03:42.01 | olds | in case you really really really want it |
| 03:46.32 | bradym | wow, very cool |
| 03:46.57 | bradym | not gonna use it now, but those are definitely going in my bookmarks for later |
| 03:47.01 | bradym | thanks :) |
| 03:50.47 | olds | :) |
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| 15:40.41 | mindjuju | bradym , i'm here now |
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| 15:58.58 | mindjuju | hi wps |
| 15:59.11 | mindjuju | can you tell me what editor you use for the mac to program web pages? |
| 16:00.21 | wps | Coda |
| 16:04.09 | olds | interesting |
| 16:05.01 | mindjuju | thx wps, coworker here was thinking of getting something called freeway. he's just starting to learn HTML and wanted to know what i'd recommend |
| 16:05.17 | wps | Coda is hands down the best editor for Mac |
| 16:05.23 | wps | and it's reasonably priced to boot |
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| 16:07.44 | timinator | mornin' |
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| 16:57.39 | olds | just a lil' windy today |
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| 17:04.30 | mgeary | interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thundersnow |
| 17:04.40 | mgeary | ~wikipedia++ |
| 17:04.48 | herlo | mgeary: it does, a lot |
| 17:04.55 | herlo | we just don't see it mostly |
| 17:04.58 | mgeary | pish |
| 17:05.01 | herlo | I've been in quite a few |
| 17:05.08 | herlo | back east it happens quite a bit |
| 17:05.08 | mgeary | "Winter Thunderstorm or a Thunder Snowstorm is a particularly rare meteorological phenomenon" |
| 17:05.13 | mgeary | ah well |
| 17:08.31 | *** join/#uphpu josephscott_lap (n=josephsc@63-228-200-73.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 17:08.37 | mindjuju | funny you mention winter thunderstorm. been here 5 years and a couple snow storms back i saw it thunder. twas first time for me to see that |
| 17:09.01 | mindjuju | only saw it thunder once, was weird |
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| 18:05.40 | SunSparc | Why? |
| 18:06.54 | drip | for his reference to Army of Darkness. |
| 18:07.05 | drip | lol |
| 18:08.20 | SunSparc | :) |
| 18:14.19 | brasto | ~wiki army of darkness |
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| 18:24.27 | mgeary_ | anyone here on a linux machine want to do me a favor? |
| 18:24.55 | mgeary_ | i want to test the "health" of an MP3 file |
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| 18:24.59 | PoeticIntensity | ok |
| 18:25.07 | mgeary | can't be OS X |
| 18:25.14 | mgeary | 'cause Quicktime will play the file |
| 18:25.23 | mgeary | i want to see if it will play on a non-QT mp3 player |
| 18:25.28 | PoeticIntensity | sure. |
| 18:26.04 | SunSparc | I could run it through VLC |
| 18:26.47 | mgeary | lemme first see what PoeticIntensity comes back with. i've got VLC too, come to think of it |
| 18:27.00 | _psychic_ | thar she blows: http://radar.weather.gov/radar.php?rid=mtx&product=N0R&overlay=11101111&loop=no |
| 18:27.03 | mgeary | it's not always easy to tell wether an app is using QT for playback |
| 18:30.54 | brasto | SunSparc: do you resell any java/jsp hosting plans with Verio |
| 18:32.15 | SunSparc | I have thought about it, but no, not currently. I thought of selling some Red5 plans, which require Java, but have not acted on it other than setting up a test a while back. |
| 18:33.29 | SunSparc | _psychic_: Got some cold temperatures in them thar clouds. |
| 18:34.12 | SunSparc | _psychic_: How is the weather down there? |
| 18:34.24 | _psychic_ | less snow, for sure |
| 18:34.48 | SunSparc | hehe, and 0% chance of snowboarding... |
| 18:35.26 | SunSparc | Yes, I would. |
| 18:39.26 | mgeary | snow/sleet is now falling in central Orem |
| 18:40.32 | PoeticIntensity | noaa.gov says there's a 90% chance of snow this afternoon in Springville.... |
| 18:40.54 | PoeticIntensity | I'm ready to give my car its duly needed polish... *sigh* |
| 18:41.01 | PoeticIntensity | ain't gonna be happenin' any time soon. |
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| 18:43.41 | brasto | SunSparc: alternatively you can try the old vps v1 Solaris account, with nearly no space available and very old archaic stuff! ;) |
| 18:46.07 | SunSparc | brasto: Yep, been there, done that. :) |
| 18:46.11 | brasto | does velda still frequent uphpu? |
| 18:46.12 | brasto | lol |
| 18:46.30 | SunSparc | brasto: The mailing list, I rarely see her on here |
| 18:46.57 | brasto | I have no java-interested prospects at this time, SunSparc, but you never know. if I do, maybe I'll team up with you on it. |
| 18:47.11 | SunSparc | :) |
| 18:47.42 | brasto | the linux box had a lot of problems, but hopefully since it's been out a while now, they've fixed many of them. |
| 18:51.46 | SunSparc | Like what? |
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| 18:52.53 | brasto | the resource limits/thread limits were more restrictive on the Linux VPS, so sometimes customers had to have an MPS for Linux boxes where they normally could have done the same with a FreeBSD VPS. |
| 18:54.07 | brasto | but the Linux VPS supposedly handles MySQL processes better, with Linux MySQL thread support. |
| 18:54.15 | brasto | *supposedly* |
| 18:54.32 | mgeary | the FreeBSD VPS does teh suck on mysql processes |
| 18:54.52 | mgeary | i'm in the process of migrating 260 domains away from ours because of that |
| 18:55.22 | brasto | mgeary: that's what I heard, but I haven't seen that problem yet, probably because I have no clients pulling much from a MySQL db. |
| 18:55.31 | mgeary | heh |
| 18:56.10 | mgeary | i was doing some benchmarking of our new machine on this. Did 2000 requests in 21 seconds. On our VPS, it got to 200 and simply died. i was amazed |
| 18:56.17 | brasto | mgeary, you *might* try a Linux vps or mps as an alternative to moving them all. |
| 18:56.22 | mgeary | no way |
| 18:56.31 | mgeary | 'sides, we've already bought the machine |
| 18:56.36 | mgeary | but i've learned my lesson |
| 18:56.40 | brasto | lol |
| 18:56.57 | brasto | what level is your verio machine, mgeary? |
| 18:57.01 | mgeary | 2 |
| 18:57.32 | brasto | right, and going to an mps, you might as well put your own machine on the web for that monthly cost... |
| 18:57.46 | mgeary | ~wiki mps |
| 18:58.01 | mgeary | ah, well of course |
| 18:58.16 | brasto | mps - a Managed Private Server |
| 18:58.20 | brasto | ~mps |
| 18:58.36 | brasto | ~mps is a Managed Private Server |
| 18:58.37 | jbot | brasto: okay |
| 18:58.37 | mgeary | ah, like a dedicated managed machine |
| 18:58.40 | mgeary | yeah |
| 18:58.44 | mgeary | we've got a few of those for clients |
| 18:58.53 | brasto | yes, one that you are the only customer who can use it |
| 18:59.12 | mgeary | we've got ~3-4 at Aplus.net, but that's caused me a fair bit of grief as well |
| 18:59.16 | brasto | vps machines are virtual machines on one physical machine. |
| 18:59.48 | brasto | an mps is really a machine with only one vps on it |
| 18:59.56 | brasto | at least with verio it is |
| 19:01.09 | brasto | ~mps $1 is <action> stuffs $1 into a Managed Private Server and mounts $1 to /home/tron |
| 19:01.10 | jbot | okay, brasto |
| 19:01.14 | brasto | ~mps wps |
| 19:01.15 | jbot | ACTION stuffs wps into a Managed Private Server and mounts wps to /home/tron |
| 19:01.24 | wps | :( |
| 19:01.30 | mgeary | ~bevis jbot mounts |
| 19:01.37 | mgeary | ~beavis jbot mounts |
| 19:01.38 | jbot | <beavis>jbot said mounts</beavis> |
| 19:02.12 | brasto | ~ria |
| 19:02.18 | brasto | ~wiki ria |
| 19:02.29 | brasto | ~wiki flex |
| 19:02.32 | mgeary | rich internet app |
| 19:02.59 | mgeary | yes you do |
| 19:03.10 | _psychic_ | I don't really care for the term RIA though |
| 19:03.26 | brasto | ~ria is a Rich Internet Application |
| 19:03.27 | jbot | okay, brasto |
| 19:03.31 | mgeary | :) |
| 19:03.44 | mgeary | good to see how it's grown |
| 19:03.45 | timinator | what changed that mgeary |
| 19:03.52 | _psychic_ | new leadership, imho |
| 19:03.58 | mgeary | and some key developers |
| 19:04.04 | _psychic_ | true |
| 19:04.05 | mgeary | who cared |
| 19:04.08 | brasto | _psychic_: where do you work? |
| 19:04.13 | _psychic_ | mediarain |
| 19:04.20 | _psychic_ | we're on the up |
| 19:04.30 | _psychic_ | we have more work than we can handle right now :/ |
| 19:04.38 | _psychic_ | bigger, better projects |
| 19:04.43 | _psychic_ | redefined process |
| 19:04.51 | _psychic_ | s'been good |
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| 19:05.49 | tierra | I wish more carts had product images that worked like this: http://benippon.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=10382 |
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| 19:05.53 | tierra | it's awesome |
| 19:05.58 | SunSparc | mediaRAIN rocks! |
| 19:06.25 | tierra | you can click to zoom in on a pic, move it to another location on the page, and then even bring up others at the same time |
| 19:07.00 | timinator | new leadership == Daniel?? |
| 19:07.39 | orsonj | Way cool! |
| 19:11.09 | mgeary | timinator: you know Daniel? |
| 19:11.47 | timinator | no. I've heard of him. That's why I'm asking |
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| 19:54.07 | mindjuju | i think our office may shutdown early also, but no official word yet |
| 19:54.41 | timinator | lucky |
| 19:54.43 | timinator | :) |
| 19:54.59 | mindjuju | yeah, but i don't get to leave, at least i can turn my music loud |
| 19:55.13 | timinator | ya, that's cool enough |
| 19:55.45 | mindjuju | how's it going on your side? |
| 19:57.55 | jsmith | mindjuju: MMmmmn... music.... |
| 19:58.43 | herlo | ooh, I *love* belinda carlisle |
| 19:59.03 | herlo | or early 90s and lets talk Tiffany |
| 19:59.41 | timinator | going well here... but our customers are all over.... so we'll still be working |
| 19:59.42 | jsmith | herlo: Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of Foreigner or GN'R |
| 20:00.00 | mindjuju | oh yeah! loved foreigner |
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| 20:10.20 | olds | holy snow |
| 20:10.57 | burnin | yeah, roads are pretty bad |
| 20:19.40 | thebigdog | roads are really bad here |
| 20:19.45 | thebigdog | in bountiful |
| 20:19.50 | thebigdog | we are at 6in now |
| 20:20.07 | mindjuju | that's craziness |
| 20:22.13 | drip | not nearly that bad up here. |
| 20:22.13 | drip | maybe 2" |
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| 20:22.58 | thebigdog | it is really coming down |
| 20:23.06 | thebigdog | this drive home will suck bad tonight |
| 20:32.10 | herlo | jsmith: that'd be cool stuff too, but you know you love Belinda |
| 20:32.44 | Black_Chaos | who doesn't? |
| 20:32.56 | jsmith | herlo: Yeah, about like I enjoy indigestion |
| 20:34.12 | herlo | hehe |
| 20:34.41 | herlo | snow is crazy up here in Bountiful |
| 20:34.53 | herlo | jsmith: looks like I'll be in Vegas and LA next two weeks |
| 20:35.00 | Black_Chaos | I think its crazy everywhere |
| 20:35.25 | Black_Chaos | I've been told its a white out in Ogden, and its really coming down here in SLC |
| 20:36.49 | drip | It was white-out earlier in Clearfield but has mostly stopped now. |
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| 20:40.11 | SunSparc | This is a link that _psychic_ gave us earlier |
| 20:40.11 | SunSparc | jaysonv@uccu.com |
| 20:40.21 | SunSparc | Wrong one, try http://radar.weather.gov/radar.php?rid=mtx&product=N0R&overlay=11101111&loop=no |
| 20:40.40 | SunSparc | Looks like the storm is about past the northern parts |
| 20:40.55 | SunSparc | But still more to come for Salt Lake and Provo |
| 20:45.27 | herlo | wow, neat crazy storm |
| 20:46.14 | SunSparc | Snow is falling sideways here. |
| 21:02.25 | mgeary | ~buy jsmith some alzheimers medicine |
| 21:02.26 | jbot | ACTION goes to S-Mart and gets a dozen some alzheimers medicines for jsmith |
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| 21:11.38 | SunSparc | Political Topic Warning |
| 21:11.52 | SunSparc | I have a dilemma. I have one vote, and my political position most closely aligns with Ron Paul. However, currently he is at 5.3% at the poll's, which could indicate that unless a miracle happens, he probably will not win this election. Which is not to say that it could not happen, I firmly believe in miracles. |
| 21:11.59 | SunSparc | My dilemma then is this: Should I vote for the candidate who I am most closely aligned with (Ron Paul) just out of principle, or should I use my one vote and throw my weight behind someone who is more likely to win so that those that I do not want to win have less of a chance? |
| 21:13.29 | _psychic_ | Odd thing is in Utah, the political reality is that you're voting as an idealist if you don't vote Romney anyway |
| 21:13.54 | _psychic_ | I'm voting RP because I think he'll do the best job - regardless of the practical reality of anyone else's campaign. |
| 21:14.11 | _psychic_ | And if everyone votes based on guesses of how everyone is voting... that seems kinda weird. |
| 21:14.14 | SunSparc | _psychic_: That is the way I am leaning also. |
| 21:14.14 | fungus | Even in Utah, your vote in the primary counts. |
| 21:14.34 | SunSparc | fungus: Yep |
| 21:14.41 | fungus | In Utah, the primary vote is more important than the final election |
| 21:14.51 | fungus | For non-republicans that is. |
| 21:14.56 | SunSparc | _psychic_: Where can I get a Ron Paul sign for my yard? I did not see anything on his site. |
| 21:15.28 | _psychic_ | SunSparc: |
| 21:15.29 | _psychic_ | http://www.ronpaul2008store.com/servlet/Categories?category=Signs |
| 21:15.40 | _psychic_ | fungus: I thought the Utah primary was winner take all |
| 21:15.50 | SunSparc | _psychic_: Sweet, thanks. |
| 21:15.57 | fungus | Primaries separate the parties |
| 21:16.20 | _psychic_ | not sure what you mean |
| 21:16.35 | fungus | We pick which candidate will run for your party. |
| 21:17.15 | fungus | In other words, democrats vote which democrat will go to the final election. |
| 21:17.28 | fungus | and republicans vote for their candidate. |
| 21:17.30 | SunSparc | That is a closed poll, vs an open poll |
| 21:17.33 | _psychic_ | Right but voting for a non-popular primary candidate in Utah doesn't go for much, since (afaik) the primary is WTA for Utah delegates |
| 21:17.53 | fungus | Wrong. primaries matter in Utah. |
| 21:18.29 | _psychic_ | do tell |
| 21:18.34 | fungus | We need to pick the best candidate to go into the final election. |
| 21:19.04 | fungus | Once the best candidate is in the final race, it is up to the other (less republican) states to get them to win the finals |
| 21:19.24 | fungus | It is important for us to help pick the best democratic candidate. |
| 21:19.48 | fungus | IMHO, RP doesn't have a chance. |
| 21:19.53 | _psychic_ | probably |
| 21:19.58 | _psychic_ | but I'm voting for him |
| 21:20.07 | _psychic_ | because I can't vote for anyone else. |
| 21:20.15 | fungus | I would love to vote for him, but I don't think it will go anywhere. |
| 21:20.56 | _psychic_ | I'm tired of voting pragmatically |
| 21:20.57 | SunSparc | fungus: Perhaps that is they way too many people are thinking |
| 21:20.59 | fungus | I feel my vote is more critical to picking the best candidate that can possibly beat the repuplican |
| 21:21.25 | fungus | agreed, but I don't think *I* can change that. |
| 21:21.34 | _psychic_ | yes you can |
| 21:21.39 | SunSparc | fungus: I think you are wrong |
| 21:21.41 | fungus | It's a catch-22 |
| 21:21.44 | _psychic_ | you can vote for you who like |
| 21:21.45 | SunSparc | Yes, it is |
| 21:21.56 | _psychic_ | it's a catch 22 only if you vote based on other's behavior |
| 21:22.00 | SunSparc | That is my same dilemma |
| 21:22.09 | _psychic_ | What's the point of voting if you have to see what others are doing? |
| 21:22.19 | SunSparc | It is a very good point. |
| 21:22.49 | fungus | You are absolutely correct. |
| 21:22.54 | fungus | That is the way it *should* be. |
| 21:23.00 | fungus | But it isn't. |
| 21:23.00 | _psychic_ | you like RP but are voting democratic? |
| 21:23.14 | _psychic_ | fungus: and it's actions like the ones you propose that keep it the way it is. |
| 21:23.22 | fungus | agreed |
| 21:23.37 | _psychic_ | I'm tired of voting for people I don't like. |
| 21:23.54 | SunSparc | I think that many are like me. I think that there are enough people out there that would vote for who I am voting for, but they are in the same dilemma, thinking that if they vote with their conscience they will not be doing any good, when in reality, if everyone voted with their conscience the right person WOULD win. |
| 21:24.10 | fungus | But do you want to risk the future of our country on a big chance like that. |
| 21:24.28 | _psychic_ | I can't risk the future of the country for someone I don't like. |
| 21:24.49 | _psychic_ | I don't for someone who will win, I vote for someone I believe in. |
| 21:24.49 | fungus | I agree with both of your feelings, but I still think it won't work. |
| 21:24.59 | _psychic_ | what do you mean "won't work" |
| 21:25.25 | fungus | Consider what would happen if all the smart/responsible people voted the way they feel. |
| 21:25.38 | fungus | All the dumbasses of the world (which there are more of) will screw it all up |
| 21:25.49 | fungus | and we end up in worse shape than before. |
| 21:25.52 | _psychic_ | dumbasses get votes too |
| 21:26.16 | fungus | Exactly, we "smart" people need to vote to counterbalance the idiots. |
| 21:26.19 | _psychic_ | I am |
| 21:26.24 | _psychic_ | I vote for the best person. |
| 21:26.41 | fungus | but it won't work to counter balance the idiots. |
| 21:27.26 | _psychic_ | I don't see how voting for an idiot counter-balances the idiot votes. |
| 21:27.27 | fungus | I will over simplify my point then. |
| 21:28.14 | fungus | All idiots vote for McCain... All smart people vote for RP... #of idots > # of smart... Hence McCain wins. |
| 21:29.01 | _psychic_ | if the idiot bloc is bigger, it doesn't matter what the smart bloc votes. |
| 21:29.08 | fungus | But the truth of the matter, is that even idiots fight amongst themselves, so the margins are narrow enough for smart people to make a difference |
| 21:29.46 | fungus | But not enough of a difference to give RP a real chance. |
| 21:29.59 | _psychic_ | It's better than voting for an idiot. |
| 21:30.27 | fungus | Ok, consider this: |
| 21:30.27 | unum_ | fungus: the problem with you're simplification is you left out romney,guiliani, and huckabee voters |
| 21:30.56 | fungus | Idiots vote 55% McCain, 45% Hilary. |
| 21:31.33 | fungus | Ok, now smart people all vote RP, but that is not enough to budge the difference in the idiot vote. |
| 21:31.41 | unum | what kind of people vote for romney,obama,edwards,guiliani, and romney |
| 21:31.48 | _psychic_ | so what's the alternative approach? |
| 21:32.09 | fungus | But, if smart people vote all Hilary, then we could swing that margin and get a lesser evil. |
| 21:32.19 | fungus | It's all strategy |
| 21:32.37 | _psychic_ | not to me |
| 21:32.41 | _psychic_ | you end up with crap either way |
| 21:32.47 | _psychic_ | you're crazy |
| 21:33.10 | fungus | All based on my belief that the percent of smart people is not high enough |
| 21:33.13 | _psychic_ | at least if I vote my conscience, when the candidate screws up everything, I knew I tried my best. |
| 21:33.39 | fungus | I'd rather end up with crap mixed with good, than total crap |
| 21:34.00 | _psychic_ | the crap difference is insignificant to me |
| 21:34.17 | fungus | Yes, you can feel good about yourself voting the right way, as you watch the world end. |
| 21:34.32 | _psychic_ | at least I didn't help it end. :) |
| 21:34.37 | fungus | lol |
| 21:34.39 | unum | it get's to a certain point where I stop caring |
| 21:34.49 | unum | I voted nader in the last two elections |
| 21:34.51 | _psychic_ | you can feel better about stalling it for a year or two. |
| 21:34.52 | fungus | I love your ideals, perhaps I am just jaded. |
| 21:34.57 | unum | of course it didn't really matter who I voted for |
| 21:35.06 | _psychic_ | to me voting is all about ideals!!! |
| 21:35.09 | SunSparc | everyone is jaded |
| 21:35.09 | _psychic_ | isn't that the whole point!? |
| 21:35.14 | _psychic_ | especially the primaries! |
| 21:35.15 | unum | you need to compromise |
| 21:35.18 | unum | ya |
| 21:35.22 | unum | in the primaries I agree |
| 21:35.34 | unum | of course both my candidates have already dropped out |
| 21:35.38 | unum | and I mailed in my ballot |
| 21:35.42 | _psychic_ | the compromise is in picking the best of the candidates, not in picking the second worst that might win |
| 21:35.48 | unum | ya |
| 21:36.09 | fungus | Maybe you don't understand the primaries process then. |
| 21:36.13 | unum | I like to get involved more in the local stuff |
| 21:36.18 | fungus | You can't vote RP in the primary |
| 21:36.24 | unum | why not? |
| 21:36.24 | fungus | it's not even an option |
| 21:36.28 | _psychic_ | yes it is |
| 21:36.30 | fungus | he isn't rep, or dem |
| 21:36.37 | unum | he's rep |
| 21:36.46 | unum | you have to be registered rep to vote for him |
| 21:36.48 | _psychic_ | he's a republican |
| 21:36.50 | fungus | He's running republican???!!! |
| 21:36.53 | unum | ya |
| 21:36.56 | fungus | That's even dumber |
| 21:37.00 | fungus | of him |
| 21:37.01 | _psychic_ | why |
| 21:37.03 | unum | I think he holds office as republican |
| 21:37.11 | _psychic_ | he's won 10 terms as a Rep |
| 21:37.25 | unum | that's what I thought |
| 21:37.25 | _psychic_ | he's more republican than any other candidate, imnsho |
| 21:37.42 | fungus | I thought he was running libertarian |
| 21:37.47 | unum | he's more what you think the republican party should be than any other candidate |
| 21:38.00 | unum | he does not fit the goals of the rnc the best |
| 21:38.09 | *** join/#uphpu pelaofeliz (n=PelaoFel@67.108.236.230) |
| 21:38.10 | _psychic_ | I think he does |
| 21:38.27 | unum | s/goals/platform |
| 21:38.36 | unum | and he doesn't even come close |
| 21:38.41 | _psychic_ | how |
| 21:39.08 | mindjuju | too bad dataw0lf isn't here, he's a big RP fan |
| 21:39.08 | unum | let's look some up |
| 21:39.10 | _psychic_ | and I'm talking Regan conservative, not neocon |
| 21:39.17 | _psychic_ | small government |
| 21:39.19 | _psychic_ | free market |
| 21:39.22 | unum | man their site is slow |
| 21:39.43 | unum | oh so you mean he fits what regan claimed to believe in 30 years ago |
| 21:39.47 | unum | not the current platform |
| 21:39.57 | _psychic_ | btw: RP is on the ballot, I've had friends already vote for him |
| 21:40.10 | unum | other wise I would vote republican |
| 21:40.14 | unum | because I liked lincoln |
| 21:40.25 | unum | that man was a great president |
| 21:40.36 | unum | we need more liberals like him and tr as president |
| 21:40.45 | _psychic_ | he was a Whig, I thought :) |
| 21:40.53 | unum | lincoln? |
| 21:40.56 | _psychic_ | yeah |
| 21:40.57 | unum | read a history book |
| 21:41.02 | jsmith | unum: What, not more like Bill Clinton? |
| 21:41.28 | unum | the repubilcans main platform was expanding the power of the federal government to end slavery |
| 21:41.35 | unum | you don't get much more liberal than thay |
| 21:41.45 | unum | jsmith: no I like real liberals |
| 21:41.51 | unum | not pretend liberals |
| 21:42.24 | unum | I don't understand why regan is considered to have limited goverment when he spent more money than any president prior to him |
| 21:42.26 | _psychic_ | how exactly are the current democratic candidates like the republican party of 30 years ago? |
| 21:43.22 | mindjuju | quick traffic interruption - a friend of mine just called to tell me the traffic heading south is at a complete standstill @ the point of the mountain |
| 21:43.47 | PoeticIntensity | also.... I just heard that there is a several-semi-crash right around Payson |
| 21:43.52 | unum | I'm just saying that the republican party doesn't live up to the values regan claimed 30 years ago(and never did) |
| 21:44.22 | unum | and ron paul is far more extreme than regan ever even claimed to be |
| 21:44.33 | unum | regan supported the federal reserve |
| 21:44.43 | _psychic_ | we need extreme change |
| 21:44.48 | _psychic_ | and RP != Reagan |
| 21:44.57 | unum | true |
| 21:45.15 | _psychic_ | though if push comes to shove, I'll vote democratic if RP doesn't get the nomination |
| 21:45.28 | unum | oh darn he droped out early this time |
| 21:45.36 | unum | he stayed in until the convention last time |
| 21:46.20 | _psychic_ | RP said on leno he'd consider running with Kucinich |
| 21:46.23 | _psychic_ | I thought that was pretty bold |
| 21:46.34 | fungus | RP is running as Republican |
| 21:47.01 | unum | he was pressed to choose a democrat |
| 21:47.08 | fungus | But according to the issues he is the least republican, republican candidate. |
| 21:47.09 | unum | they both agree on foreign policy |
| 21:47.17 | _psychic_ | unum: which is really important nowadays |
| 21:47.18 | unum | their domestic policy couldn't be more different |
| 21:47.28 | _psychic_ | fungus: what issues? |
| 21:47.39 | *** join/#uphpu dataw0lf (n=stderr@adsl-75-14-203-206.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:47.39 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v dataw0lf] by ChanServ |
| 21:47.41 | _psychic_ | unum: that's the main difference across the aisle |
| 21:47.54 | fungus | http://www.ronpaul2008.com/about/ |
| 21:48.06 | _psychic_ | fungus: what issues though |
| 21:48.09 | unum | I wish republicans would quite claiming that their party is the party of libertarians |
| 21:48.12 | unum | it is not |
| 21:48.24 | unum | it's the party of goverment spying and reduced civil right |
| 21:48.28 | fungus | taxes, budget, patriot act, war, etc |
| 21:48.34 | unum | not that democrats are much better |
| 21:48.39 | _psychic_ | unum: that's what it is now :( |
| 21:48.50 | unum | _psychic_: and that's what matters |
| 21:48.59 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: well, for a while now |
| 21:49.12 | _psychic_ | it can change :) |
| 21:49.12 | macnewbold | ~cookie |
| 21:49.13 | dataw0lf | since the 70s at least |
| 21:49.22 | macnewbold | where the heck is dubbo? |
| 21:49.55 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: who're you caucusing for? |
| 21:50.00 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: RP |
| 21:50.02 | unum | well just don't tell me to vote for "republicans" because they believe in small government |
| 21:50.05 | dataw0lf | (I caucused for Barack) |
| 21:50.19 | unum | so republicans like ron paul may be that |
| 21:50.31 | dataw0lf | http://stderr.ws/news/detail/19/ |
| 21:50.34 | mindjuju | course though, dataw0lf, _psychic_ is having a question, is it better to vote with who you agree with, or who you think will win |
| 21:50.45 | unum | but most aren't (dougal,daw,curtis,hatch,hunstman) |
| 21:50.55 | _psychic_ | unum: if it isn't now, it will be when the democrats take the presidency, and people realize how lost and wrong their current approach is |
| 21:51.16 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: well, I partly voted for Barack because he'll destroy any Republican against him, save perhaps Ron Paul. |
| 21:51.40 | unum | the democrats had the presidency for eight years |
| 21:51.47 | unum | and the republicans chose to run bush |
| 21:51.59 | unum | so I don't think you claim has any substance |
| 21:52.00 | dataw0lf | You gotta consider both sides. I think the situation is eminently dire enough to say "yea, you should consider whether or not whether your candidate can win" |
| 21:52.02 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: but which of those two do you align closer to? |
| 21:52.23 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: Barack versus Ron Paul? |
| 21:52.26 | dataw0lf | uhmmm |
| 21:52.31 | dataw0lf | I'm about half and half on their issues |
| 21:52.49 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: http://glassbooth.org/ |
| 21:52.53 | fungus | If RP was to win the Rep nomination, it would be a tough election for me. |
| 21:52.55 | dataw0lf | I have some libertarian values. I don't take it to whacky extremes like ron Paul, however. |
| 21:53.01 | dataw0lf | Ron* |
| 21:53.07 | fungus | If he does not get the nomination, it will be an easy choice. |
| 21:53.13 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: like the gold standard, or what? |
| 21:53.33 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: gold standard, social issues (for the most part), foreign policy (for the most part) |
| 21:53.52 | dataw0lf | I'm not a huge fan of the Uber Duper Free Market, however. |
| 21:53.59 | dataw0lf | I'm big on corporate restrictions |
| 21:54.08 | _psychic_ | I'm not big on big government |
| 21:54.21 | dataw0lf | "big government" is just a buzz word |
| 21:54.24 | dataw0lf | gimme a break |
| 21:54.27 | _psychic_ | no it isn't |
| 21:54.28 | dataw0lf | "OMG I HATE BIG GOVERNMENT" |
| 21:54.34 | _psychic_ | look at how big it is :) |
| 21:54.52 | dataw0lf | You can have a drastically smaller government while still supply social and economic initiatives |
| 21:54.53 | _psychic_ | and look at what a fantastic job they do :) |
| 21:54.58 | dataw0lf | I'm anti BLOATED government |
| 21:54.59 | fungus | "It was *this* big" |
| 21:55.07 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: that's what the term means to me |
| 21:55.07 | unum | they do a very good job with a lot of things |
| 21:55.15 | unum | I have clean water cheap electricy |
| 21:55.18 | unum | good roads |
| 21:55.20 | _psychic_ | FEMA |
| 21:55.23 | _psychic_ | Welfare |
| 21:55.26 | unum | oh that's all city stuff.... |
| 21:55.26 | dataw0lf | TSA |
| 21:55.39 | _psychic_ | there's stuff that can be taken to the block as far as I'm concerned |
| 21:55.46 | _psychic_ | 600-700 foreign military bases |
| 21:55.47 | unum | I have friends being supported through welfare so they can finish school |
| 21:55.50 | dataw0lf | well, I don't like the current welfare system |
| 21:55.51 | unum | I support that |
| 21:55.54 | dataw0lf | but welfare is important |
| 21:56.01 | _psychic_ | when it's done well |
| 21:56.05 | _psychic_ | do you think it's done well now? |
| 21:56.11 | dataw0lf | of course not |
| 21:56.15 | unum | they are about to join the work force despite a major disabilty |
| 21:56.17 | dataw0lf | I can't think of much the government does well anymore |
| 21:56.19 | unum | I think it could be better |
| 21:56.23 | _psychic_ | exactly |
| 21:56.32 | unum | my city goverment does a lot of things well |
| 21:56.40 | _psychic_ | I'm not talking local |
| 21:56.47 | _psychic_ | I'm mostly talking federal |
| 21:56.51 | unum | my state goverment does a lot of things bad, but I blame that on the repubilcans |
| 21:56.53 | dataw0lf | I like Ron Paul because, as a person, he is akin to Barack. |
| 21:57.02 | *** join/#uphpu wps (n=wps@208.53.47.251) |
| 21:57.02 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 21:57.05 | unum | job corp is ok |
| 21:57.13 | unum | the interstate is good |
| 21:57.16 | dataw0lf | They're both Washington outsiders, they both aren't part of a unbelievably rich politically entrenched family |
| 21:57.19 | unum | we have the best military in the world |
| 21:57.29 | dataw0lf | "the best military in the world" ? |
| 21:57.32 | dataw0lf | not for long |
| 21:57.33 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: I'm going to look at him really closely when RP doesn't make it |
| 21:57.47 | unum | dataw0lf: who do you think is going to build a better military |
| 21:57.50 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: Do! He's a pretty dang good candidate. |
| 21:58.00 | dataw0lf | unum: Um, all the countries that we sell our arms to. |
| 21:58.12 | unum | we don't sell them any of the good ones |
| 21:58.17 | dataw0lf | Uh. |
| 21:58.22 | unum | we're very careful about that |
| 21:58.22 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: I don't like it when I hear things like "universal health care" but anything is better than the 100 years of war the GOP is going to get us in. |
| 21:58.24 | dataw0lf | We give Israel all viable technology. |
| 21:58.35 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: true dat! |
| 21:58.40 | unum | dataw0lf: who else |
| 21:58.47 | _psychic_ | the abortion stance is hard to muscle down too |
| 21:58.50 | unum | did we give them f22's already? |
| 21:59.07 | dataw0lf | unum: and it doesn't matter who can EXCEED our military, when our military's infrastructure is about to fall apart. |
| 21:59.11 | unum | what's ron paul abortion stance? |
| 21:59.21 | dataw0lf | he's anti abortion |
| 21:59.27 | unum | I'm not so convinced about our structure falling apart |
| 21:59.41 | dataw0lf | well I am pretty convinced about our infrastructure falling apart. Visit Iraq for a week. |
| 21:59.50 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: he's for moving the issue to the state level, more than he is against it |
| 21:59.55 | unum | he opposed to a federal ban on gay marriarge though isn't he? |
| 22:00.02 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: well he's personally anti abortion. |
| 22:00.07 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: yep |
| 22:00.15 | _psychic_ | as a doctor, that means alot to me. |
| 22:00.35 | _psychic_ | unum: I don't know how long you can oppose some sort of gay union for long |
| 22:00.41 | unum | that's true |
| 22:00.52 | dataw0lf | who cares?? |
| 22:00.54 | _psychic_ | but I'm against calling in "marriage" |
| 22:00.54 | dataw0lf | Honestly. |
| 22:01.02 | dataw0lf | call it marriage, give me a break. |
| 22:01.05 | unum | I don't realy care |
| 22:01.08 | _psychic_ | I do |
| 22:01.15 | unum | I just know that's an issue for a lot of utahns |
| 22:01.24 | unum | they want to ban it federally |
| 22:01.29 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: how bout I switch your girlfriend for a guy and call it the same thing? |
| 22:01.31 | _psychic_ | ;) |
| 22:01.39 | unum | and then they will turn around and tell you the federal government should have less power |
| 22:01.43 | _psychic_ | I think its a new institution |
| 22:01.48 | _psychic_ | and society has to treat it that way |
| 22:01.49 | dataw0lf | I'm not attracted to guys so it probably wouldn't work so well |
| 22:02.02 | dataw0lf | But if I was attracted to guys I wouldn't want specific ostracization in our constitution. |
| 22:02.11 | _psychic_ | you can't just jump in on all the work married couples have done legally |
| 22:02.13 | dataw0lf | which is all a marriage amendment is about |
| 22:02.21 | _psychic_ | it's not "marriage" |
| 22:02.21 | cole_joplin | "federally recognized partner" |
| 22:02.22 | dataw0lf | all the work? it's not taking anything away from married couples |
| 22:02.41 | _psychic_ | why not allow me to marry my pet rock for the same tax benefits? |
| 22:02.47 | fungus | _psychic_: marriage is inbuilt into our legal system. |
| 22:02.55 | _psychic_ | fungus: and there's a reason for that. |
| 22:02.56 | dataw0lf | your pet rock isn't another human being. |
| 22:03.02 | _psychic_ | I LOVE him |
| 22:03.08 | dataw0lf | Although I guess if yuo want to draw comparisons between homosexuals and inanimate objects, be my guest. |
| 22:03.08 | _psychic_ | don't you dare say that to me |
| 22:03.10 | cole_joplin | ya know Iran doesn't have these issues |
| 22:03.19 | SunSparc | Gay is a sexual preference. That is all. We should not even be hearing about it. Keep it in the bedroom. |
| 22:03.37 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: point is it's a completely different social institution. To just slap the same label on it and send it out the door isn't going to work. |
| 22:03.41 | fungus | If you want a word for your sacred promise to the lord that is not related to legal rights, find another word! |
| 22:03.53 | cole_joplin | Hmmm, I wonder there are no gays in Iran |
| 22:03.57 | dataw0lf | yea, how about we change the wording of this sacred bond to god crap |
| 22:04.02 | cole_joplin | ....maybe it's all those executions |
| 22:04.17 | dataw0lf | I'm planning on getting married in the next year or so |
| 22:04.21 | _psychic_ | I don't care what they call it as long as it isn't legally equivalent to marriage. |
| 22:04.23 | dataw0lf | and it's not a sacred bond to god. |
| 22:04.29 | dataw0lf | people we're marrying before the Bible |
| 22:04.32 | dataw0lf | were* |
| 22:04.38 | dataw0lf | People will marry after the bible |
| 22:04.48 | dataw0lf | it has nothing to do with whether or not it's a "man and a woman" |
| 22:05.00 | dataw0lf | and this 'tax evasion' crap is just a side issue. |
| 22:05.11 | dataw0lf | It's just as easy to mock up a marriage between a man and a woman |
| 22:05.18 | dataw0lf | in fact, socially, it's probably more popular. |
| 22:05.20 | dataw0lf | So give me a break. |
| 22:05.29 | unum | and being married used to cost you more in taxes |
| 22:05.35 | unum | we should go back to that... |
| 22:06.06 | _psychic_ | so people want to make a bond, in any configuration, we just ignore the tax issues, adoption issues, hospital visitation issues, custody issues, ownership issues, etc? |
| 22:06.11 | fungus | Since the word "marriage" is bound to legal rights, it must be granted to all humans everywhere. |
| 22:06.25 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: if it's between two people, yes. |
| 22:06.31 | _psychic_ | why not three? |
| 22:06.34 | unum | I want to know the arguments for getting rid of the federal reserve |
| 22:06.49 | _psychic_ | let's shake it up a bit |
| 22:06.50 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: I don't have a problem with plural marriage legalization, either. |
| 22:07.04 | unum | I don't have trouble with plural marriage either |
| 22:07.11 | mindjuju | my wife does |
| 22:07.14 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: treated the same, legally, as a single couple marriage? |
| 22:07.15 | mindjuju | :) |
| 22:07.24 | unum | mindjuju: what if it was polyandry? |
| 22:07.30 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: Sure. |
| 22:07.32 | _psychic_ | the term means nothing anymore then. |
| 22:07.45 | unum | what does that matter |
| 22:07.48 | unum | it's just a sound |
| 22:07.50 | fungus | _psychic_: if you want a term that "means something" make one up |
| 22:07.57 | dataw0lf | too bad. You're the one who thinks he needs the government to tell you that your bond is sacred, apparently. |
| 22:08.02 | _psychic_ | I dont' |
| 22:08.07 | _psychic_ | I'm not talking about my personal relationship |
| 22:08.08 | dataw0lf | which is completely anti libertarian, btw. |
| 22:08.13 | _psychic_ | I'm talking about legal standing |
| 22:08.14 | dataw0lf | then what are you talking about? |
| 22:08.23 | _psychic_ | and I don't really care which political bucket you put it in |
| 22:08.38 | unum | there could be an issue with medical benefits and plural marriage |
| 22:08.43 | _psychic_ | adoption |
| 22:08.45 | unum | I could see them requiring you to pick one |
| 22:08.46 | _psychic_ | custody battles |
| 22:08.48 | _psychic_ | property rights |
| 22:08.55 | _psychic_ | hospital visitation |
| 22:09.00 | _psychic_ | tax status |
| 22:09.09 | dataw0lf | how does that differ from a man & man versus man & woman? |
| 22:09.15 | unum | all those should be the same for two consent adults that want to share them |
| 22:09.17 | dataw0lf | I don't understand your reasoning |
| 22:09.24 | fungus | All those are reasons to legalize same-sex marriage |
| 22:09.27 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: it's a completely different social unit. that's what |
| 22:09.33 | dataw0lf | no, it's not. |
| 22:09.52 | dataw0lf | I have no qualms about saying that homosexuality is a genetic problem (I think it is, somewhat) |
| 22:10.00 | dataw0lf | and it definitely is a problem from an evolutionary standpoint |
| 22:10.20 | dataw0lf | but between homosexual couples, which I have various friends in, I have not seen any difference socially. |
| 22:10.31 | dataw0lf | generally one fills a female role, the other a male role. |
| 22:10.43 | dataw0lf | It's the same social unit because of that. |
| 22:11.06 | dataw0lf | now we can start an argument about "gender neutral" people, which I find ridiculous. |
| 22:11.27 | dataw0lf | but if a man is attracted to men, he'll fill the social role void. |
| 22:12.07 | fungus | Unix = more than one gender neutral person. |
| 22:12.07 | PoeticIntensity | I ordered DEL SCORCHO, dangit! |
| 22:13.31 | SunSparc | Would anyone like to go in with me on Ron Paul yard signs? The more we get the cheaper they are individually. |
| 22:13.33 | fungus | dataw0lf: perhaps homosexuality is a benefit from an evolutionary standpoint, to prevent over-population. |
| 22:14.36 | SunSparc | fungus: Good idea, we should move all the homosexual people to their own city and let them "survive". |
| 22:14.41 | PoeticIntensity | oh, and good job, mindjuju. |
| 22:14.49 | SunSparc | Oh wait, that is San Francisco |
| 22:14.51 | mgeary | oh jeeze |
| 22:14.58 | _psychic_ | I guess I just disagree that they're functionally equivalent. |
| 22:15.03 | *** join/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=David_Bo@66.60.97.194) |
| 22:15.03 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o Utah_Dave] by ChanServ |
| 22:15.12 | mgeary | at least this is a new controversial topic |
| 22:15.15 | _psychic_ | To me, a different social setup deserves it's own legal status. |
| 22:15.16 | dataw0lf | SunSparc: seriously |
| 22:15.19 | dataw0lf | You know hateful you sound? |
| 22:15.29 | mgeary | but i'm guessing, SunSparc, that you don't have any family members who are homosexual |
| 22:15.29 | SunSparc | :) |
| 22:15.31 | dataw0lf | Really, really hateful. |
| 22:15.32 | fungus | _psychic_: it doesn't even matter if they are functionally equivalent. They deserve the same rights as straight people. |
| 22:15.39 | dataw0lf | I could place you in Iran and you wouldn't even be noticed. |
| 22:15.44 | Utah_Dave | ooh, what have I missed? |
| 22:15.53 | Utah_Dave | dataw0lf: you stirring things up again? :) |
| 22:15.59 | _psychic_ | fungus: I agree. And that's the right to invent their own social unit and legal status. |
| 22:16.05 | dataw0lf | No, I'm just getting pissed when people sound so hateful yet claim they're full of love. |
| 22:16.08 | mindjuju | nah, they were talking politics long before dtaw0lf came back |
| 22:16.09 | PoeticIntensity | Utah_Dave, nah... dataw0lf came in about half-way through |
| 22:16.29 | SunSparc | Where is the hate? |
| 22:16.42 | PoeticIntensity | ah, come on, SunSparc .... |
| 22:16.46 | dataw0lf | <SunSparc> fungus: Good idea, we should move all the homosexual people to their own city and let them "survive". |
| 22:16.53 | dataw0lf | <SunSparc> Oh wait, that is San Francisco |
| 22:17.00 | SunSparc | dataw0lf: What is hateful about that? |
| 22:17.07 | dataw0lf | 100 years ago s/homosexual/negro |
| 22:17.21 | mgeary | 50 years ago s/homosexual/Japanese |
| 22:17.23 | dataw0lf | 150 years ago s/homosexual/mormon |
| 22:17.31 | dataw0lf | 500 years ago s/homosexual/jewish |
| 22:17.56 | fungus | _psychic_: that is segregation you are talking about there. |
| 22:17.57 | dataw0lf | you sound ridiculous SunSparc |
| 22:18.03 | SunSparc | dataw0lf: Thanks |
| 22:18.13 | mgeary | anyone here familiar with sox? |
| 22:18.22 | PoeticIntensity | although I disagree with pretty much everything dataw0lf says that doesn't have to do with programming..... What he says usually makes sense... |
| 22:18.24 | PoeticIntensity | mgeary, yes... |
| 22:18.29 | PoeticIntensity | sox is DA SHIZ... |
| 22:18.51 | dataw0lf | PoeticIntensity: well at least YOU can understand my gibberish ;-) |
| 22:18.56 | _psychic_ | fungus: people can choose which program they sign up for. |
| 22:19.06 | PoeticIntensity | hehe... |
| 22:19.18 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: I just don't get, from a legal standpoint, defending MAN + WOMAN as marriage |
| 22:19.26 | dataw0lf | I can see defending 1 + ! |
| 22:19.26 | PoeticIntensity | I just enjoy people's conversation whom have done their homework / research... |
| 22:19.29 | dataw0lf | 1 + 1 rather |
| 22:19.54 | mgeary | dang, my sox was compiled w/o mp3 decoding |
| 22:19.54 | _psychic_ | there's no legal difference between a man and a woman? |
| 22:20.20 | dataw0lf | Are you worried about people defrauding the government? |
| 22:20.25 | dataw0lf | take all the guys you know |
| 22:20.49 | dataw0lf | and ask yourself which would they use to defraud the government (if they wanted to) : faux marriage with a woman, or faux marriage with a man? |
| 22:20.58 | dataw0lf | see, social anxiety about homosexuality actually helps the whole deal |
| 22:21.37 | PoeticIntensity | I'll bite.... and this is just my point of view..... |
| 22:21.42 | dataw0lf | I mean, as much as I could care less, I'd probably get a little pissy if someone claimed that I was gay, since I'm, like, 110% pure MAN. |
| 22:21.45 | _psychic_ | my original point is that there is a legal difference between sexes |
| 22:21.50 | _psychic_ | so it might as well apply here |
| 22:21.58 | _psychic_ | regardless of who takes advantage of it or why |
| 22:21.59 | PoeticIntensity | but... I think marriage has a whole lot to do with child-bearing... |
| 22:22.06 | _psychic_ | not necessarily |
| 22:22.21 | fungus | There is no legal difference between male and female |
| 22:22.36 | PoeticIntensity | putting a label on a couple who have no chance at child bearing seems ...... ugh.... demeaning.....? |
| 22:22.58 | dataw0lf | PoeticIntensity: so a man and a woman marry.... they find out they can't have kids. Strip their marriage? |
| 22:23.23 | dataw0lf | I'm going to take this ball from ya PI, and run with it: |
| 22:23.29 | dataw0lf | I think we should need a license to bear a child. |
| 22:23.32 | PoeticIntensity | that's why I usually don't comment much... |
| 22:23.39 | dataw0lf | ooooh, <flame target="dataw0lf"> |
| 22:23.47 | fungus | As long as government has a hand in marriage, it must be Equal Opportunity |
| 22:23.47 | PoeticIntensity | dataw0lf - I actually agree with ya.... |
| 22:23.53 | dataw0lf | PoeticIntensity: Nice. |
| 22:24.04 | dataw0lf | PoeticIntensity: too many people are having too many kids in the U.S. |
| 22:24.16 | PoeticIntensity | let's hear what criteria you'd put on the "child license". |
| 22:24.48 | SunSparc | You know, dataw0lf, I never really thought about it much, but what I said (although in jest at the time) does sound quite bigoted, now that I think of it. I apologize to everyone. |
| 22:25.05 | dataw0lf | there should be a requisite for : 1) salary, 2) proven home qualities, at least |
| 22:25.23 | dataw0lf | 3) probably a credit check, 4) criminal check |
| 22:25.52 | _psychic_ | ew |
| 22:26.00 | dataw0lf | I'd even go so far as to say gene testing, but you guys would probably stone me out of the room |
| 22:26.14 | _psychic_ | lol |
| 22:26.23 | PoeticIntensity | hrm..... |
| 22:26.38 | PoeticIntensity | some of the most successful people I know were raised in a very poor home... |
| 22:26.54 | PoeticIntensity | I wouldn't put a money limit on it. |
| 22:27.03 | PoeticIntensity | I'm more concerned about mental stability... |
| 22:27.09 | PoeticIntensity | history of violence... |
| 22:27.16 | dataw0lf | well, my family was dirt poor growing up, but that's because they were finishing school. |
| 22:27.18 | fungus | ooh, good movie |
| 22:27.25 | mindjuju | you know, when i woke up this morning, somehow i knew eugenics were going to come up |
| 22:27.33 | PoeticIntensity | :) |
| 22:28.04 | dataw0lf | and I wouldn't doubt that some of the MOST successful people were dirt poor |
| 22:28.10 | dataw0lf | but the percentages are bad |
| 22:28.33 | dataw0lf | just because of the environment |
| 22:28.36 | dataw0lf | if nothing else |
| 22:28.38 | PoeticIntensity | I think the percentages are even lower with abuse... |
| 22:28.45 | dataw0lf | oh definitely |
| 22:28.55 | PoeticIntensity | man, that's a sore spot with me... |
| 22:29.02 | fungus | I agree that there would be benefits to a "child license", but the idea of government decided who has children or not, is too scary. |
| 22:29.03 | PoeticIntensity | I'm actually quite hateful against people who beat kids. |
| 22:29.17 | PoeticIntensity | fungus, no doubt. |
| 22:29.17 | dataw0lf | oh, you guys missed it |
| 22:29.24 | dataw0lf | y'know that Westboro Baptist Church came to Reno |
| 22:29.29 | PoeticIntensity | uh oh... |
| 22:29.37 | PoeticIntensity | uuhhh... oh.... |
| 22:29.44 | dataw0lf | oh don't worry, they got lucky and I arrived like 5 minutes after they were ran off |
| 22:29.53 | dataw0lf | but one of my friends body checked one of them into the ground |
| 22:29.55 | PoeticIntensity | were you armed? |
| 22:30.04 | PoeticIntensity | ;-)_ |
| 22:30.10 | dataw0lf | they were protesting for like 5 minutes before they got circled by like 200 bikers |
| 22:30.22 | dataw0lf | nope, but I had a bald eagle mask that I was going to wear |
| 22:30.23 | fungus | Nice sounds like a nice place to live |
| 22:30.28 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: why were they there? |
| 22:30.44 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: to protest at a soldier killed in iraq's funeral |
| 22:30.47 | PoeticIntensity | extremists have an uncanny way of shedding the most horrid hue on the things they're supposed to be representing... |
| 22:31.13 | dataw0lf | yea, I was going to wear my Class A's, but 1) easily identifiable and 2) it was snowing and there was a lot of slush on the ground |
| 22:31.16 | dataw0lf | but I missed em :( |
| 22:31.27 | dataw0lf | but yea, I was ready for a rumble |
| 22:31.31 | dataw0lf | free speech aside |
| 22:31.42 | PoeticIntensity | I'd be shoulder-to-shoulder with ya there, pal. |
| 22:31.52 | dataw0lf | there's no way you're going to carry a sign that says "Thank God For Dead Soldiers" anywhere near me |
| 22:31.56 | *** part/#uphpu mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 22:31.58 | _psychic_ | violence would only solidify their resolve |
| 22:32.10 | dataw0lf | yea, that's what people kept on telling me |
| 22:32.21 | PoeticIntensity | some things / people *need* to be dealt with physically. |
| 22:32.24 | _psychic_ | you can't fix that sort of mental warpedness |
| 22:32.26 | dataw0lf | hard to solidify your resolve if 5 out of 10 of our members are put into a coma, though |
| 22:32.36 | _psychic_ | true |
| 22:32.38 | _psychic_ | :) |
| 22:32.39 | dataw0lf | s/our/your |
| 22:32.49 | _psychic_ | s/your/their |
| 22:32.58 | dataw0lf | right right |
| 22:33.32 | dataw0lf | but yea, I only got a glimpse at em, because after they were run off, they decided to drive by once screaming "you're all going to Hell" |
| 22:33.36 | dataw0lf | I caught that |
| 22:33.44 | dataw0lf | a bunch of teenagers ran after them egging their car |
| 22:33.51 | _psychic_ | That's usually a sign of intellectual superiority. |
| 22:33.58 | dataw0lf | Reno cops were on the corner looking the other way |
| 22:34.04 | _psychic_ | haha |
| 22:34.08 | PoeticIntensity | ROFL... REALLY!?!? |
| 22:34.21 | PoeticIntensity | oh, man.... I'm moving to Reno. |
| 22:34.34 | dataw0lf | yea, when the bikers surrounded the protestors, my friend (who is a large South African ex-SAS guy) said the cops didn't do anything |
| 22:34.48 | PoeticIntensity | sounds like you guys have the right kind of cops... |
| 22:34.52 | dataw0lf | then I was talking with my friend later and one of the cops walked by and was like "heh, too bad those guys slipped on that ICE, right?!" |
| 22:35.28 | PoeticIntensity | sheesh..... I know it isn't right to hate, but man... those people have the whole "life" concept totally screwed up. |
| 22:35.33 | dataw0lf | I would've taken my camera and gotten pictures if I had known I wasn't going to be thrown into jail the first ten minutes |
| 22:35.48 | PoeticIntensity | hehe.... |
| 22:35.56 | PoeticIntensity | gotta love your resolve, dataw0lf |
| 22:36.07 | PoeticIntensity | I'd be scared spitless to go to jail. |
| 22:36.19 | dataw0lf | oh yea, I was ready. I had my girlfriend set up a bail bondsman before just in case. |
| 22:36.33 | PoeticIntensity | insane... |
| 22:36.38 | PoeticIntensity | well... actually very sane.. |
| 22:36.39 | _psychic_ | I'd go to jail for the right reasons |
| 22:36.51 | PoeticIntensity | I probably would too, but I'd need rallying... |
| 22:36.54 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: sounds like you've done this before |
| 22:36.58 | mindjuju | PI - big accident like you mentioned - several 18 wheelers involved - http://www.kutv.com/content/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=e9eba494-c9ac-4eb5-9c30-caec56e3582d&rss=991 |
| 22:37.00 | dataw0lf | >_> |
| 22:37.01 | dataw0lf | <_< |
| 22:37.01 | PoeticIntensity | do you doubt? |
| 22:37.11 | PoeticIntensity | I've heard stories... :) |
| 22:37.30 | dataw0lf | I don't know if I've ever gone to jail for a really "right" reason |
| 22:37.32 | dataw0lf | some decent ones |
| 22:37.43 | dataw0lf | (and a stupid one or two thrown into the mix) |
| 22:38.22 | PoeticIntensity | oh man, mindjuju .... that is worse than I heard! |
| 22:38.31 | PoeticIntensity | 12 semis!?!? |
| 22:38.39 | dataw0lf | it's just like -- man. I totally support your right to free speech, but going to a funeral and harassing grieving family members... there's a line. |
| 22:39.28 | dataw0lf | they were young too -- early twenties |
| 22:39.35 | _psychic_ | so sad :( |
| 22:39.38 | dataw0lf | the mind boggles |
| 22:41.55 | _psychic_ | thx for the discussion, gents |
| 22:42.16 | PoeticIntensity | it's always good to get the mental synapses energized.. :) |
| 22:42.36 | *** join/#uphpu mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 22:42.36 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v mgeary] by ChanServ |
| 22:42.52 | mindjuju | so _psychic_ , i wonder on what you decided? |
| 22:43.01 | mindjuju | vote for who you think is best, or vote to win? |
| 22:43.30 | _psychic_ | there's no question for me |
| 22:43.34 | _psychic_ | I'm voting for who I think is best |
| 22:43.46 | mindjuju | cool |
| 22:43.59 | dataw0lf | hey, at least we can all agree on this, I made a great purchase: http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?fdo=y&productid=902&style=a&sel_blackmarket=2%3A+Black&color=01&size=3%3A+CHOOSE+A+SIZE&stype=&is_fivestar= |
| 22:44.13 | _psychic_ | haha |
| 22:44.17 | mindjuju | heh |
| 22:44.18 | wps | nice |
| 22:45.06 | _psychic_ | http://www.bustedtees.com/shirt/stewartcolbert/male |
| 22:46.17 | dataw0lf | I also bought this shirt, which I'm going to wear around fungus first chance I get: http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=1002 |
| 22:46.34 | mindjuju | heh |
| 22:46.54 | mindjuju | or this one for mgeary - http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=853 |
| 22:46.56 | fungus | lol, that's terrible |
| 22:47.22 | mgeary | mindjuju: except that Wal*Mart is much better compared to Nazi Germany than Soviet Russia |
| 22:47.22 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: hehe, I already own that one |
| 22:48.47 | dataw0lf | hmm, dang, I own like 7 t-shirt hell shirts already |
| 22:50.05 | dataw0lf | mindjuju / wps / etc: you guys should create a Linked In group for UPHPU |
| 22:50.15 | wps | done |
| 22:50.20 | wps | dang I'm fast |
| 22:50.23 | dataw0lf | (also my linkedin profile is at http://www.linkedin.com/in/joshuasimpson) for those who haven't added me |
| 22:50.38 | dataw0lf | wps: dang dude |
| 22:50.39 | wps | http://www.linkedin.com/e/gis/25209/46099C1DE7D1 |
| 22:50.46 | dataw0lf | you're the fasted gun in the west |
| 22:50.49 | dataw0lf | wps: danke |
| 22:52.02 | wps | I have an SQL question on the mailing list of you have a minute |
| 22:53.18 | dataw0lf | where at? (don't see it) |
| 22:53.24 | wps | http://uphpu.org/pipermail/uphpu/2008-January/008640.html |
| 22:56.07 | dataw0lf | hm, I don't know about batch AS processing. I'd probably throw it into a stored procedure. |
| 22:56.18 | dataw0lf | whoa, I hadn't seen drip in a while. |
| 22:56.51 | wps | would that be faster than loop editing with PHP after the pull? |
| 22:57.29 | dataw0lf | probably |
| 22:57.34 | dataw0lf | hmm, I wonder if you could do it in a view |
| 22:57.37 | dataw0lf | thebigdog: ^^ / |
| 22:57.51 | dataw0lf | s/\//?/ |
| 22:57.57 | thebigdog | whatz up |
| 22:58.12 | mindjuju | question on wps email - http://uphpu.org/pipermail/uphpu/2008-January/008640.html |
| 22:58.19 | mindjuju | that what up |
| 22:58.27 | dataw0lf | thebigdog: wondering if that'd be better done in a view |
| 22:58.53 | thebigdog | yeah i would do a view |
| 22:59.01 | wps | what's a view? |
| 22:59.02 | thebigdog | you could do it in a query if you wanted |
| 22:59.14 | wps | how would you do it in the query? |
| 22:59.16 | dataw0lf | wps: a stored select, basically, that you can select from. |
| 22:59.16 | tierra | can anyone recommend any good commercial mailing list software? |
| 22:59.24 | mgeary | tierra: why commercial? |
| 22:59.35 | dataw0lf | support, I'd assume |
| 22:59.55 | mgeary | mailman's pretty easy to use |
| 23:00.02 | thebigdog | wps, i would do a view |
| 23:00.03 | tierra | I mean that mailing in the sense of mostly one-way mass email, not so much non-OS |
| 23:00.07 | thebigdog | then it is easier to deal with |
| 23:00.26 | mgeary | ah, you want to do mail blasts |
| 23:00.34 | tierra | as in newsletter style... |
| 23:00.37 | wps | can you give me an example of how that would be done in the SQL statement, thebigdog ? |
| 23:00.37 | tierra | yeah |
| 23:00.39 | thebigdog | you could use string manipulation to do that in the query, but it would be pretty nasty |
| 23:00.45 | thebigdog | which database? |
| 23:00.49 | wps | MySQL |
| 23:01.45 | wps | would I be better off just listing each field instead of using a wildcard? |
| 23:01.56 | thebigdog | yes |
| 23:01.57 | wps | doing an as for each one? |
| 23:01.57 | dataw0lf | CREATE VIEW some_view AS select field1 as "a_field1", field2 as "a_field2" from some_table |
| 23:02.00 | thebigdog | you need to do that |
| 23:02.00 | mgeary | tierra: just curious, what kind of #s are you talking about? |
| 23:02.09 | wps | k |
| 23:02.32 | tierra | not huge, maybe 300-1,000 |
| 23:02.32 | thebigdog | you could do it like this too |
| 23:02.35 | dataw0lf | wps: then you can do select * from some_view, tada |
| 23:02.57 | thebigdog | create view a_field1 as select field1 from table; |
| 23:03.13 | wps | is a view a temporary table: |
| 23:03.14 | wps | ? |
| 23:03.24 | dataw0lf | no, it's a select statement that you can further select from |
| 23:03.24 | thebigdog | create view a_field1, a_field2 as select field1, field2 from table; |
| 23:04.09 | thebigdog | think of it like an alias to a sql query |
| 23:04.16 | wps | k |
| 23:04.27 | dataw0lf | http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/create-view.html |
| 23:05.39 | bradym | woah, dataw0lf is here, long time no see :) |
| 23:05.57 | PoeticIntensity | It took a hot debate to pull him in. |
| 23:06.05 | bradym | hehe.. that sounds about right |
| 23:06.11 | PoeticIntensity | we have to do that on purpose from time to time just to get him back in here. |
| 23:06.16 | PoeticIntensity | ;-) |
| 23:06.37 | dataw0lf | man, I got a new laptop from work which has Vista, and I didn't configure #uphpu on startup in X-Chat |
| 23:06.40 | dataw0lf | forgot |
| 23:07.09 | mindjuju | how you liking vista? |
| 23:07.10 | dataw0lf | I was too busy installing the TEN MAJILLION TRILLION KILLION apps that I, apparently, need |
| 23:07.18 | dataw0lf | way better than XP |
| 23:07.22 | bradym | lol |
| 23:07.59 | bradym | yeah? what makes it better than xp in your view? |
| 23:08.00 | dataw0lf | not that I used XP much, but that's sorta the point. I used XP when it first came out for, like, one day then went back to Linux |
| 23:08.02 | mindjuju | curious, i was having tons of problems with it, though i wonder if it was driver support at the time that was my problem |
| 23:08.04 | bradym | (i still haven't used it) |
| 23:08.28 | *** join/#uphpu thebigdog (n=thebigdo@0006yE-Yn.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 23:08.28 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o thebigdog] by ChanServ |
| 23:09.03 | dataw0lf | bradym: just a better experience. I had inherent issues with orphan processes involving Python and XP |
| 23:09.18 | dataw0lf | and the unix subsystem is pretty nice |
| 23:09.34 | wps | huh? |
| 23:09.36 | bradym | unix subsystem?! i haven't heard about this |
| 23:09.46 | mindjuju | in vista? |
| 23:09.52 | wps | you high, dataw0lf ? |
| 23:10.41 | dataw0lf | yes, unix subsystem |
| 23:10.51 | mindjuju | i wonder if this is it - http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=93ff2201-325e-487f-a398-efde5758c47f&DisplayLang=en |
| 23:10.57 | dataw0lf | I'm not talking about a microkernel like OS Xish, fools (which -- terrible idea) |
| 23:11.25 | mindjuju | curious |
| 23:11.40 | mindjuju | Subsystem for UNIX-Based Applications is a Windows component that provides platform services for UNIX-based applications. |
| 23:11.48 | dataw0lf | yea. It's pretty nice. |
| 23:11.52 | wps | ah |
| 23:12.00 | wps | I'd rather just run UNIX |
| 23:12.15 | _psychic_ | I'd rather run away. |
| 23:12.27 | dataw0lf | just running Unix isn't an option on my work machine. |
| 23:12.35 | dataw0lf | I have to do pen testing on .NET applications too |
| 23:13.20 | mgeary | PoeticIntensity: how do i batch convert e.g. wavs to mp3s? |
| 23:13.24 | mgeary | using sox |
| 23:14.51 | dataw0lf | for x in *.wav ; do soxcommand $x ; done |
| 23:15.18 | dataw0lf | replace "soxcommand" with the relevant sox command, putting $x where you'd normally put the wav filename |
| 23:15.28 | mgeary | well, i want to convert aa.wav to aa.mp3. that for...in would require some sed stuff to do that, no? |
| 23:15.42 | mgeary | sox aa.wav aa.mp3 |
| 23:15.46 | PoeticIntensity | hrm.... |
| 23:15.50 | PoeticIntensity | I haven't done batch converting... |
| 23:16.01 | PoeticIntensity | I usually just write a script like dataw0lf suggests to do something like that. |
| 23:16.18 | mgeary | k |
| 23:16.37 | dataw0lf | why not use lame? |
| 23:16.51 | mgeary | hey, i'm open |
| 23:17.03 | PoeticIntensity | I'd suggest using lame, unless you're doing more than just converting to mp3. |
| 23:17.47 | mgeary | how does lame like the rate to be specified? |
| 23:17.52 | mgeary | for e.g. 128kbits |
| 23:18.33 | PoeticIntensity | it defaults to 128. |
| 23:18.41 | PoeticIntensity | I'm not familiar with the syntax... |
| 23:18.42 | mgeary | i'm getting 24kbps |
| 23:18.46 | PoeticIntensity | ...? |
| 23:18.56 | mgeary | by default |
| 23:19.37 | PoeticIntensity | -b to change bitrate. |
| 23:19.38 | PoeticIntensity | -b 128 |
| 23:19.42 | mgeary | got it |
| 23:19.43 | mgeary | thanks |
| 23:19.51 | PoeticIntensity | however, the man for lame states the default is 128.... |
| 23:19.56 | wps | ~lart my stupid VPN |
| 23:19.56 | jbot | nukes my stupid VPN with a single large nuke |
| 23:19.56 | PoeticIntensity | so... not sure what happened. |
| 23:19.57 | mgeary | yeah |
| 23:20.02 | mgeary | might be something wacky in my source file |
| 23:24.38 | Utah_Dave | tierra: try http://pommo.org I've been meaning to give it a try for a while, but haven't gotten around to it. It looks really cool |
| 23:25.06 | tierra | http://www.campaignmonitor.com/ <- looks pretty awesome aside from cost |
| 23:26.03 | Utah_Dave | later, guys |
| 23:26.06 | Utah_Dave | and girls |
| 23:26.08 | *** part/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=David_Bo@66.60.97.194) |
| 23:26.08 | tierra | Utah_Dave: thanks |
| 23:26.11 | tierra | psh |
| 23:28.19 | *** part/#uphpu cole_joplin (n=cjoplin@gw.helius.com) |
| 23:37.26 | *** join/#uphpu Black_Ch1os (n=admin@71-213-51-142.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 23:53.55 | mindjuju | anybody know a winders based PDF program that has provisions for command line interface? |
| 23:54.31 | bradym | pdf viewer? sumatra and foxit reader both ( i think ) |
| 23:54.46 | mindjuju | my bad, not view but create |
| 23:55.10 | mindjuju | like here be this word doc, now be ye a pdf --> POOF! now there is a pdf |
| 23:55.40 | wps | we need to get you of windows, mindjuju |
| 23:56.43 | wps | off |
| 23:57.21 | bradym | mindjuju: only thing i can think of is scripting open office to do it, which i've never actually done but have read about |
| 23:58.02 | tierra | openoffice.org can read a word document, and it can create PDFs .... so I guess that would be one solution |
| 23:58.16 | tierra | oh, cli, nvm |
| 23:58.33 | mindjuju | wps, i do need to invest more time in Linux, right now just have an ubuntu box, but isn't in production |