| 00:00.27 | mindjuju | that's a big review |
| 00:18.50 | macnewbold | ~uphpu-stories |
| 00:18.51 | jbot | extra, extra, read all about it, uphpu is Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org Blootbot's favorite channel. |
| 00:18.57 | macnewbold | ~uphpu |
| 00:18.57 | jbot | i guess uphpu is Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org Blootbot's favorite channel. |
| 00:19.05 | macnewbold | ~rss uphpu.org |
| 00:19.11 | macnewbold | arg |
| 00:25.00 | timinator | I'm out... have a great weekend guys |
| 00:30.59 | mindjuju | funny |
| 00:31.05 | PoeticIntensity | hehe... |
| 00:31.08 | mindjuju | sure is windy |
| 00:31.39 | PoeticIntensity | So, just as a litmus test for me... I've got an extremely subjective and general question. |
| 00:32.14 | PoeticIntensity | how long do you think it'd take you to re-create the www.naturesway.com home page with no functionality, other than the drop-downs. (no links)....? |
| 00:32.15 | PoeticIntensity | Any takers? |
| 00:32.30 | PoeticIntensity | (just the home page - so... just the front web page, no links) |
| 00:32.46 | mindjuju | design too? |
| 00:32.48 | PoeticIntensity | also - using CSS entirely for design. No tables. |
| 00:32.49 | PoeticIntensity | yup. |
| 00:32.57 | mindjuju | and picture / color matching |
| 00:33.01 | PoeticIntensity | yup. |
| 00:34.15 | mindjuju | as a side note, and not to be picky, but there are some gaps in your drop downs, 3 then a gap, then more then a gap, etc |
| 00:34.27 | PoeticIntensity | heh.... |
| 00:34.49 | PoeticIntensity | if that were my code, I'd resign from web development all together, and check myself into a mental institution... |
| 00:35.12 | mindjuju | yeah, was just starting to look at the code |
| 00:35.22 | PoeticIntensity | The code on the site was developed by the company I'm replacing. |
| 00:36.04 | PoeticIntensity | and, if I got paid what they got paid to write it, I could retire, and live off the interest. |
| 00:36.21 | PoeticIntensity | talk about criminal consulting. |
| 00:36.49 | mindjuju | yeah, see that keeps me up at night worrying |
| 00:36.58 | PoeticIntensity | charging too much? |
| 00:37.12 | mindjuju | i *might* have to pick up .net and start coding web services |
| 00:37.24 | mindjuju | and i wonder if i can code .net and still respect myself in the morning |
| 00:37.35 | PoeticIntensity | you're awesome, mindjuju . |
| 00:37.55 | mindjuju | no really, dude. could you imagine? yeah, my name is Victor Villa, i code .net |
| 00:38.05 | PoeticIntensity | LOL |
| 00:38.15 | mindjuju | it's like admitting i'm a drunk or something |
| 00:38.20 | PoeticIntensity | ROFL |
| 00:38.29 | mgeary | "and here is my MXCSCIVA certification badge" |
| 00:38.39 | PoeticIntensity | oh man... |
| 00:40.40 | mindjuju | yeah, truly i'm slightly depressed about the possability |
| 00:41.01 | wps | PoeticIntensity: you want the same design with new code or a new design with new code? |
| 00:41.44 | PoeticIntensity | same design, wps |
| 00:42.08 | PoeticIntensity | needs to be cross-browser-capable, too. |
| 00:42.15 | PoeticIntensity | as it is, FF looks like crap. |
| 00:42.21 | PoeticIntensity | I can only imagine how Safari looks. |
| 00:42.30 | wps | hmm… an hour |
| 00:42.36 | PoeticIntensity | huh? |
| 00:42.43 | wps | I could code it in an hour |
| 00:42.55 | PoeticIntensity | beautiful! |
| 00:42.55 | wps | isn't that what you were asking? |
| 00:42.58 | PoeticIntensity | yup |
| 00:43.06 | PoeticIntensity | your first response came across as "hmman hour" |
| 00:43.30 | wps | ah… your client doesn't understand the ellipsis character |
| 00:43.45 | PoeticIntensity | I dunno. |
| 00:43.48 | PoeticIntensity | I'm using XChat. |
| 00:44.36 | PoeticIntensity | that's freakin' fast, my man. |
| 00:44.39 | PoeticIntensity | cause I just finished. |
| 00:44.52 | PoeticIntensity | and it took me 9 hours. |
| 00:44.56 | PoeticIntensity | :) |
| 00:45.59 | Black_Chaos | wps: a lot of clients won't understand the ellipsis |
| 00:48.32 | mindjuju | an hour is really fast, i'd be not near that, closer to you PI |
| 00:48.51 | PoeticIntensity | heh... Yeah.. I don't feel too bad. |
| 00:49.05 | PoeticIntensity | I'm much more proficient in algorithmic programming than I am in copying a design. |
| 00:49.23 | PoeticIntensity | however, I love implementing CSS, though. |
| 00:49.38 | mindjuju | yeah, CSS way cool |
| 00:49.38 | PoeticIntensity | the site as it is now uses tables. |
| 00:49.47 | PoeticIntensity | so... I had to convert it to CSS. |
| 00:49.48 | mindjuju | yeah lots of nested tables |
| 00:50.01 | PoeticIntensity | and now, it's slicker than snot. |
| 00:50.14 | PoeticIntensity | and I'll be able to templatize it easily.. |
| 00:50.18 | mindjuju | PI, can i tell you the scariest thing you've prolly heard all week? |
| 00:50.26 | PoeticIntensity | please do! |
| 00:50.32 | PoeticIntensity | I'm up for a break... |
| 00:51.28 | mindjuju | the guy i replaced would create a table, give it a background of black and a size of 601 x 501, lets say, then make a nested table inside that was white at 600 x 500 so that i'd have a 1px black border around the perimeter |
| 00:51.49 | mgeary | that's just ASP.NET at work |
| 00:51.50 | mindjuju | and of course more tables in the inside, but... |
| 00:52.06 | mgeary | we did a gig once, making html from ASP.NET compatible with FF & Safari |
| 00:52.15 | PoeticIntensity | uh oh.. |
| 00:52.17 | mgeary | we found tables nested 12 deep, i kid you not |
| 00:52.29 | mgeary | .NET has all these "widgets" that are all basically tables |
| 00:52.34 | mgeary | and the code just layers them in |
| 00:52.49 | PoeticIntensity | wow. |
| 00:52.51 | mindjuju | k, i've never seen 12, the most this guy ever went was about 8, though i think there may have been a 9, but it was really hard to count |
| 00:52.53 | mindjuju | i lost track |
| 00:53.02 | PoeticIntensity | that's still insane. |
| 00:53.07 | mgeary | it was awful |
| 00:53.20 | mgeary | but we made a truckload of money fixing it |
| 00:53.23 | PoeticIntensity | I've never seen .NET before, but.... |
| 00:53.25 | PoeticIntensity | wow. |
| 00:53.27 | PoeticIntensity | I can imagine, mgeary . |
| 00:53.53 | PoeticIntensity | I'm convinced that the way to make money in web development is through mistake correction, or plain ol' ignorance. |
| 00:54.00 | mindjuju | so mgeary did you leave it as .net and clean it up, or did you convert? |
| 00:54.08 | mgeary | had to leave it as .net |
| 00:54.16 | PoeticIntensity | sheesh. |
| 00:54.24 | mgeary | but we cleaned it waaaaay up |
| 00:54.37 | mgeary | it is *possible* to produce acceptable html with .net, it's just not the default |
| 00:55.32 | mindjuju | i've gone to a couple of events to dip a toe in |
| 00:55.39 | PoeticIntensity | and? |
| 00:55.42 | mindjuju | but always i pull it back out and feel disgusted |
| 00:55.47 | PoeticIntensity | LOL |
| 00:56.31 | mindjuju | well, my company uses CF a lot, but they don't want to pay the money to go to CF 8, so i've talked them into converting to PHP 5 |
| 00:56.56 | PoeticIntensity | woot! |
| 01:06.37 | *** part/#uphpu mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
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| 03:51.36 | Utah_Dave | ~seen timriker |
| 03:51.38 | jbot | timriker <n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 1d 3h 59m 19s ago, saying: 'Winny: just my luck.'. |
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| 04:13.36 | mgeary | hey timinator |
| 04:13.48 | mgeary | what OS X fans are around? |
| 04:14.07 | timinator | heya mgeary |
| 04:14.18 | timinator | I'm in <3 w/ OS X |
| 04:14.29 | mgeary | anyone here know how i could copy AND archive resource-fork-sensitive files over ssh/scp to another machine? Basically, what i want to do is copy a *folder* from machine A to a resource-fork-aware (zip) *archive* on machine B. Any ideas? |
| 04:14.53 | timinator | *shrug |
| 04:15.02 | mgeary | it'd be cool, though, eh? |
| 04:15.10 | timinator | fo sho |
| 04:17.52 | orsonj | so, mgeary got yourself a new phone? :) |
| 04:19.03 | _psychic_ | mgeary: I use ditto sometimes for that |
| 04:19.30 | timinator | a new phone? |
| 04:19.53 | timinator | it wouldn't be a phone, that happens to start with an "i", would it?!?!?! |
| 04:20.43 | orsonj | no, I was talking about a $20 phone I found |
| 04:21.52 | orsonj | I was going to pick up a sim card for new phone service. ($10) and they talked me into getting a phone for $10 more. |
| 04:24.01 | timinator | cool |
| 04:24.11 | timinator | I gotta run.... later guys |
| 04:24.42 | orsonj | l...ater, he really is quick. |
| 04:25.47 | orsonj | I'm probably out also here in a minute or two. (backlog gets checked in the morning) |
| 04:26.33 | wps | mgeary: the extended-attributes flag (-E) for rsync preserves resource-fork stuff |
| 04:26.52 | wps | it has always been broken (a bug) in Mac OS, but appears to have finally been fixed with 10.5 |
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| 04:29.21 | mgeary | wps: that's not the q |
| 04:30.00 | mgeary | the question is, can i compress "in transit"? |
| 04:30.17 | wps | rsync can do that |
| 04:30.41 | mgeary | and orsonj, no, didn't have time to stop by the t-mo store |
| 04:30.57 | mgeary | wps: rsync can sync to an archive?? |
| 04:31.22 | wps | no, rsync can compress "in transit" |
| 04:31.32 | mgeary | well, yeah, but it then expands |
| 04:31.37 | wps | yeah |
| 04:31.41 | mgeary | here's the deal: |
| 04:31.56 | mgeary | i've got a big folder on machine A, and not enough HD space to compress that folder on machine A |
| 04:32.11 | mgeary | rather than copy the folder to machine B and THEN zip, it'd be cool to do it in one operation |
| 04:32.33 | wps | wow, your HD is so full that you can't even compress a directory? |
| 04:32.50 | mgeary | the directory is really big |
| 04:32.57 | mgeary | ~8 gigs |
| 04:33.12 | wps | wow |
| 04:33.31 | wps | are you using Finder's compress option? |
| 04:33.36 | mgeary | yeah |
| 04:33.46 | mgeary | since it easily preserves the RF |
| 04:34.01 | wps | how much extra space does it need to compress 8 GBs? |
| 04:34.31 | mgeary | well, more than 6 gigs, apparently. i'd predict that the resulting file would probably be around 2 gigs |
| 04:35.53 | wps | have you tried b-zip? |
| 04:35.56 | mgeary | which is why it'd be so much nicer to say "copy_and_archive /path/to/folder ip.ad.re.ss:/path/to/zip.zip |
| 04:36.26 | wps | I don't know if it requires any less space to do it's work, but I just did a test and it preserved alright |
| 04:37.43 | mgeary | yeah, but that still means "archive, delete folder, copy archive" :( |
| 04:38.20 | wps | can't you add things to an existing tar archive? |
| 04:38.26 | wps | seems I've heard you can do that |
| 04:38.50 | wps | if you can, then it seems like you should be able to scp the files to the other box and right into the tar |
| 04:38.57 | mgeary | but tars don't preserve resource forks |
| 04:38.58 | wps | I'm curious… let me do a little looking |
| 04:39.12 | wps | isn't b-zip using tar underneath? |
| 04:39.22 | wps | yeah… it is… duh |
| 04:39.24 | mgeary | dunno. don't know much about b-zip |
| 04:39.34 | wps | here is the syntax that I used to create my archive |
| 04:39.42 | wps | tar -jcvf file.tar.bz2 /some/dir |
| 04:40.10 | wps | and that preserved the resource forks (at least with the files—fonts—that I tested) |
| 04:40.11 | mgeary | -j ? |
| 04:40.54 | mgeary | ah, bzip2. duh |
| 04:40.57 | wps | -j "filters through bzip2" |
| 04:41.13 | mgeary | and that preserves resource forks?? |
| 04:41.15 | mgeary | i'm surprised |
| 04:41.24 | wps | I did for the four fonts that I tested |
| 04:41.34 | mgeary | but were they "old school" fonts? |
| 04:41.38 | mgeary | or .dfont files? |
| 04:42.25 | wps | I always use fonts for my resource fork tests since they are the only files that I am aware of in Mac OS that still have resource forks (seems like they have mostly been eliminated from the OS since leaving version 9) |
| 04:42.54 | wps | of the four, three were .dfont and one was .ttf |
| 04:42.56 | mgeary | new fonts are just data forks |
| 04:43.08 | mgeary | those are all data fork only, afaik |
| 04:43.16 | mgeary | try a non-.app executable |
| 04:43.24 | mgeary | a non-bundle executable |
| 04:43.39 | mgeary | like one made by Flash |
| 04:43.41 | wps | let me run a broader test… I know that I have some fonts that will work for the test |
| 04:44.02 | wps | because when I just did an earlier test with rsync without the extended attributes flag, then got borked |
| 04:44.17 | mgeary | yeah, that would be a good test |
| 04:44.40 | wps | okay, I have a folder full of 67 fonts |
| 04:44.49 | wps | I know that there are at least some in here that have resource forks |
| 04:44.53 | wps | I will now try to bzip it |
| 04:46.16 | wps | extracting… |
| 04:46.59 | wps | worked |
| 04:47.16 | wps | wahoo… I get a dollar and get to keep my brownie |
| 04:47.17 | mgeary | i've got an app here i'll try it with |
| 04:47.21 | mgeary | once i make the bed |
| 04:49.02 | wps | the fonts that worked regardless were Darafork TrueType fonts and Windows TrueType fonts |
| 04:49.22 | mgeary | give me the command you're using again |
| 04:49.27 | mgeary | for compression and extraction |
| 04:49.44 | wps | the ones that got borked rsync'ing without -E were Font Suitcases… BUT then didn't get borked bzip'ing and un-bzip'ing |
| 04:49.54 | wps | compress with bzip: tar -jcvf file.tar.bz2 /some/dir |
| 04:50.13 | wps | what type of file are you trying it on? |
| 04:50.52 | mgeary | ah |
| 04:51.01 | mgeary | it is indeed grabbing resource (._) files |
| 04:51.04 | mgeary | that's encouraging |
| 04:51.30 | mgeary | almost done compressing |
| 04:52.33 | mgeary | spoke too soon |
| 04:52.41 | mgeary | should have picked a smaller sample |
| 04:52.55 | wps | note that I uncompressed with The Unarchiver and not the built-in Finder uncompress utility |
| 04:53.14 | wps | (in case it makes a difference) |
| 04:53.28 | mgeary | k |
| 04:54.39 | wps | I just tested uncompressing from the command line and it still worked |
| 04:54.40 | wps | tar -jxvf file.tar.bz2 |
| 04:54.52 | mgeary | however, this doesn't really solve my problem, methinks |
| 04:55.07 | mgeary | the problem of piping it to another machine |
| 04:55.13 | mgeary | (still compressing) |
| 04:55.50 | wps | speaking of The Unarchiver, I would recommend it over the built in "BOMArchiveHelper.app" |
| 04:55.50 | wps | http://wakaba.c3.cx/s/apps/unarchiver.html |
| 04:59.35 | wps | awesome! |
| 04:59.37 | wps | it works |
| 05:00.00 | mgeary | what works? |
| 05:00.10 | wps | I just created a tar ball of these fonts (local) on a remote machine |
| 05:00.23 | mgeary | gimme gimme |
| 05:00.31 | wps | suck… typed to soon |
| 05:00.36 | mgeary | bah |
| 05:00.43 | wps | it started and was running but then exited with an error |
| 05:00.55 | mgeary | what did you try? |
| 05:01.22 | wps | tar -jcvf user@server:/path/to/file.tar.bz2 /some/dir |
| 05:01.30 | wps | :) |
| 05:01.44 | mgeary | found this: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=509971 |
| 05:01.59 | mgeary | but it uses dd, which is almost certainly not RF-aware |
| 05:02.29 | wps | I was thinking you'd have to use a pipe to make it work |
| 05:03.21 | herlo | wps: I don't think you can tar over ssh |
| 05:03.34 | herlo | at least not that way |
| 05:03.42 | wps | I think what I tried barfed because it has to write and read from the tar as it's building it and it obviously can't read it it's on another machine |
| 05:03.57 | wps | sure was fun to try though :) |
| 05:05.18 | mgeary | herlo: you been following the thread at all? You know of any way to move a folder on machine A to an archive on machine B? |
| 05:05.51 | herlo | try this: yes |
| 05:05.56 | herlo | mgeary: hold on |
| 05:06.02 | wps | just ran a simple test and confirmed… you can't tar over SSH |
| 05:06.05 | herlo | is this a thread in the mailing list too? |
| 05:06.15 | mgeary | no |
| 05:06.23 | mgeary | at least, not that i know of |
| 05:06.34 | wps | you going to be doing it repeatedly, mgeary? |
| 05:06.50 | mgeary | well, it'd be a nice thing to have |
| 05:06.58 | wps | you could write a simple script that executes the two commands so that you only have to do one |
| 05:07.01 | herlo | k, cool. I'll get the example shortly |
| 05:07.02 | mgeary | after i finish a project, i just pipe it over to an archive |
| 05:07.29 | herlo | tar -cf - directory/ | ssh my.other.computer tar -xf - -C /destination/ |
| 05:07.33 | herlo | this is a good start |
| 05:07.34 | wps | ssh the files over and then tar them there |
| 05:07.35 | herlo | but |
| 05:07.48 | herlo | you could just do something like |
| 05:08.26 | mgeary | so the -f - sends the result to stdout? |
| 05:08.33 | herlo | yep |
| 05:08.43 | herlo | http://johnny.chadda.se/2007/04/12/transfer-directories-between-computers-using-ssh-and-tar/ |
| 05:08.44 | mgeary | so to add -j: |
| 05:08.49 | herlo | that the site |
| 05:08.54 | herlo | don't use -j, too slow |
| 05:08.55 | herlo | use -z |
| 05:09.13 | herlo | -j is great for compression, but the -z will give you much more speed |
| 05:09.31 | wps | mgeary: note that z is gzip, in case you didn't know |
| 05:09.32 | mgeary | i speculate that -z doesn't recognize resource forks |
| 05:09.37 | wps | j = bzip, z = gzip |
| 05:09.39 | mgeary | yeah, that's what i usually use |
| 05:09.44 | mgeary | for non-RF data |
| 05:10.16 | herlo | RF> |
| 05:10.18 | herlo | ? |
| 05:10.21 | mgeary | Resource Fork |
| 05:10.28 | herlo | ok |
| 05:10.34 | herlo | mac? |
| 05:10.34 | mgeary | though it appears that in Leopard, at least, -z does |
| 05:10.41 | mgeary | yeap. 'course |
| 05:10.42 | mgeary | :) |
| 05:10.50 | herlo | mgeary: not everyone uses a mac |
| 05:11.00 | herlo | if you didn't know anyway |
| 05:11.05 | herlo | :) |
| 05:11.07 | mgeary | ~boggle herlo |
| 05:11.08 | jbot | ACTION stares in flabbergasted astonishment at herlo |
| 05:11.16 | herlo | wow! |
| 05:11.16 | mgeary | ;) |
| 05:11.32 | wps | mgeary: i just ran a test with my fonts and the resource forks were preserved using g-zip |
| 05:11.32 | herlo | ~simpsons mgeary |
| 05:11.33 | jbot | ACTION sends mgeary chasing a rolling pink donut down the hill screaming, "its still good!, its still good!" |
| 05:11.35 | wps | on 10.5 |
| 05:11.50 | mgeary | wps: yeah, looks like they may have added that in Leopard |
| 05:11.51 | mgeary | woot |
| 05:12.02 | wps | so, you can have RFs and speed |
| 05:12.10 | herlo | such mac-heads |
| 05:12.21 | mgeary | unarchiving a test now |
| 05:12.24 | mgeary | via BOMhelper |
| 05:12.31 | mgeary | shazam! |
| 05:12.34 | wps | and if herlo's command works, everything you want |
| 05:12.41 | herlo | it does |
| 05:12.41 | wps | worked? preserved? |
| 05:12.42 | mgeary | seriously |
| 05:12.44 | mgeary | yep |
| 05:12.48 | wps | excellent |
| 05:12.53 | herlo | :) |
| 05:12.53 | mgeary | well, haven't tried over ssh yet |
| 05:13.09 | mgeary | just validate that tar -zf worked with RF |
| 05:13.27 | herlo | wps: I've had that one lying around for some time |
| 05:13.39 | herlo | although, if you really want to be powerful, use rsync |
| 05:13.53 | wps | I love rsync |
| 05:13.57 | wps | use it every day |
| 05:14.06 | herlo | rsync -avz -e ssh source destination |
| 05:14.21 | mgeary | now wait a sec |
| 05:14.26 | herlo | its more efficient than even that tar command |
| 05:14.31 | mgeary | well, i do that too |
| 05:14.37 | mgeary | but that doesn't produce an archive on the back end |
| 05:14.41 | herlo | and then you could do something like |
| 05:14.48 | wps | mgeary didn't want to use rsync though because he wanted to send it straight into an archive |
| 05:14.52 | wps | without a second step |
| 05:14.56 | mgeary | but then, neither does your command as-is above |
| 05:15.01 | mgeary | since it de-archives |
| 05:15.04 | mgeary | on the dest |
| 05:15.24 | mgeary | so, how would i tweak that to produce a .tgz file on the destination? |
| 05:15.27 | herlo | rsync -avz -e ssh source - | ssh tar czf afile.tar.gz - |
| 05:15.40 | herlo | something like that |
| 05:15.54 | herlo | or use cpio |
| 05:15.55 | mgeary | how about not using rsync? |
| 05:16.02 | herlo | um, hang on |
| 05:16.16 | mgeary | tar -zcf - ./code/xtras | ssh dev.gearyweb.com -tar -cf somefile.tgz |
| 05:16.17 | mgeary | ? |
| 05:16.26 | mgeary | oops , but not -tar |
| 05:16.28 | mgeary | just tar |
| 05:16.42 | herlo | just redirect it might work |
| 05:17.00 | mgeary | so, no tar cmd on the dest? |
| 05:17.06 | wps | nice, mgeary is running PHP 5.1.6 on Mac OS |
| 05:17.07 | mgeary | just echo >> somefile.tgz? |
| 05:17.13 | mgeary | heh |
| 05:17.23 | mgeary | gotta take that down.... |
| 05:17.32 | herlo | good question |
| 05:17.41 | herlo | now I see more of what you want to do, hang on |
| 05:17.48 | mgeary | there |
| 05:17.53 | mgeary | thanks for the reminder, wps |
| 05:17.59 | wps | 'hello' |
| 05:18.02 | wps | you're welcome |
| 05:18.28 | wps | I have a habit of putting domains into my browser to see what comes up |
| 05:18.36 | mgeary | sure |
| 05:18.41 | wps | do it to the domains in people's email addresses all the time |
| 05:18.55 | mgeary | that's my staging area for my side projects |
| 05:19.19 | wps | very similar to mine: http://dev.anavidesign.com/ |
| 05:19.37 | wps | nothing's there right now though |
| 05:19.51 | wps | $scissor_sisters++ |
| 05:20.19 | wps | I am anxiously awaiting herlo's answer |
| 05:20.22 | wps | can he do it? |
| 05:20.29 | mgeary | seriously |
| 05:21.22 | wps | :) |
| 05:21.34 | wps | hey… the writers are on strike |
| 05:21.36 | wps | what else is on? |
| 05:21.52 | mgeary | tv is worthless |
| 05:22.02 | mgeary | not just when writers strike, either |
| 05:22.13 | wps | I actually agree… and actually want very little television |
| 05:22.35 | wps | the only shows I watch generally are The Office and the evening news |
| 05:23.04 | wps | I actually really do like Perry Mason though and have caught a few over the holiday break |
| 05:23.47 | mgeary | yeah, i've bought Lost on iTunes and have enjoyed that |
| 05:23.54 | wps | speaking of backing things up |
| 05:23.58 | wps | have you used Time Machine? |
| 05:24.05 | mgeary | nope |
| 05:24.12 | wps | it's awesome |
| 05:24.17 | wps | set it and forget it |
| 05:24.21 | mgeary | haven't gotten around to getting an external drive set up for that |
| 05:24.24 | wps | does it's thing and does it awesomely |
| 05:24.40 | mgeary | wps: how much space does it take? how does that work? |
| 05:25.06 | wps | hourly backups for the past twenty-four hours… daily backups for the past month… and weekly backups after that until the drive is full… and then auto purges the oldest to make room for the latest |
| 05:25.14 | wps | it uses as much space as you have |
| 05:25.40 | mgeary | i assume the backups are incremental in some way? |
| 05:25.42 | wps | if you have a 5 GB drive, it'll use that until it's full and then auto rotate… if you have a 2 TB drive, it'll do the same |
| 05:25.53 | mgeary | so it doesn't waste a ton of space copying stuff that hasn't changed |
| 05:25.57 | wps | nope |
| 05:26.04 | wps | that's why it rocks so much |
| 05:26.07 | wps | it doesn't waste ANY space |
| 05:26.22 | mgeary | what kind of overhead does it take? |
| 05:26.28 | wps | it never copies the file same file twice but "appears" to make complete backups |
| 05:26.34 | wps | it starts by making a complete copyu |
| 05:26.51 | wps | then, each time it runs, it only copies the changes, but makes a hard link to every file |
| 05:27.02 | mgeary | yeah |
| 05:27.03 | mgeary | cool |
| 05:27.17 | wps | so you have what appears to be a complete backup for each hour/day/week… but really only have actual copies of each version |
| 05:27.25 | mgeary | i actually set up something like that a while back |
| 05:27.44 | mgeary | compiled a version of "cp" that supported hard linking. the system one didn't (at the time, anyway) |
| 05:27.46 | mgeary | was handy |
| 05:27.55 | wps | I have never notices any performance issues or overhead problems |
| 05:28.08 | wps | just turns on each hour and runs for a few seconds and is done |
| 05:28.09 | mgeary | but the machine ended up with sooooooo many inodes, or whatever they're called |
| 05:28.42 | wps | good chatting… I'm off |
| 05:28.54 | wps | I'll check with you later though for what herlo comes up with |
| 05:28.57 | wps | very curious |
| 05:28.59 | wps | good night |
| 05:29.23 | mgeary | ye |
| 05:29.25 | mgeary | yep |
| 05:56.47 | mgeary | heeeeerrrrrrllllooooooooo |
| 05:57.55 | herlo | I think I might have something |
| 05:58.01 | herlo | testing it now |
| 05:58.49 | mgeary | duuude :) |
| 06:02.02 | herlo | my localhost is being a pita |
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| 06:02.54 | beandog | theres nothing quite so nasty as coughing up snot |
| 06:03.08 | beandog | except maybe having it slide back down your throat |
| 06:03.10 | herlo | blood |
| 06:03.21 | herlo | or throwup |
| 06:03.52 | beandog | hmm |
| 06:03.53 | beandog | yah. |
| 06:05.38 | herlo | find $(pwd) | ssh host "xargs tar cvzf ~/a.tar.gz" |
| 06:05.44 | herlo | mgeary: that might work |
| 06:06.17 | herlo | in fact, I'm pretty sure it happens after the fact |
| 06:09.37 | mgeary | so you don't think that this kind of approach would work: |
| 06:10.10 | mgeary | tar -zcf - ./code/xtras | ssh dev.gearyweb.com echo >> something.tgz |
| 06:10.45 | herlo | I tried something similar |
| 06:10.57 | herlo | hang on |
| 06:15.06 | herlo | not a chance |
| 06:15.31 | herlo | mgeary: the problem with your idea is that appending to a tgz isn't the right approach |
| 06:16.17 | herlo | its possible to use some kind of stdin approach that way, but what are you echoing? |
| 06:18.06 | beandog | what are you trying to do? |
| 06:19.01 | herlo | beandog: have a tar that is compressed on the source side become a tar on the dest side |
| 06:19.37 | herlo | hte problem is that stdout doesn't directly translate to stdin over ssh in this instance |
| 06:19.50 | beandog | hmm |
| 06:20.14 | beandog | do I dare ask why you wanna do that? |
| 06:20.31 | herlo | beandog: mgeary does |
| 06:20.44 | herlo | and truthfully, I can see that it would be nice to have |
| 06:20.54 | beandog | I think Ive heard of it being done |
| 06:20.58 | beandog | wouldnt you use scp though? |
| 06:21.07 | beandog | since youre copying data to a file. |
| 06:21.12 | herlo | scp would require that a file exists on the source |
| 06:21.23 | beandog | well, yes |
| 06:21.26 | beandog | but youre still copying binary data. |
| 06:21.30 | herlo | we want to do it from stdin |
| 06:21.32 | beandog | its just taking stdin as intpu. |
| 06:21.48 | beandog | it'd be like saying cat foo.tgz | scp server bar.tgz. |
| 06:21.50 | herlo | hmm |
| 06:21.56 | beandog | er wait. |
| 06:21.59 | beandog | youre right |
| 06:22.03 | beandog | youd have to get scp to read stdin. |
| 06:22.14 | beandog | Hmm |
| 06:22.18 | beandog | dunno. |
| 06:22.30 | herlo | maybe tar czf - /a/path/to/data/ | scp - remote:/path/to/tgz |
| 06:24.41 | herlo | I've also considered that named pipes would solve this problem |
| 06:24.55 | herlo | something like mkfifo somefifo |
| 06:25.04 | herlo | and then using that to pipe through |
| 06:25.14 | herlo | but I don't know enough about it |
| 06:26.14 | beandog | I was gonna mention fifo |
| 06:26.17 | beandog | but I dont know enough about em either |
| 06:27.21 | herlo | mgeary: good luck |
| 06:27.42 | herlo | mgeary: the idea I had was to just add one step to the end, but it seems like a bit of a waste |
| 06:29.53 | herlo | but its overcomplicated |
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| 06:42.09 | Black_Chaos | So we're trying to send files from one machine and have them become tar-ed on the other machine? |
| 06:42.25 | wps | yes, that's what mgeary wants |
| 06:42.59 | wps | and he needs the solution to support Mac OS resource forks |
| 06:43.28 | Black_Chaos | what are resource forks? |
| 06:43.51 | wps | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_fork |
| 06:46.21 | wps | anyone getting any of the storm yet? |
| 06:46.42 | wps | I have an outing scheduled for seven in the morning and am wondering if this storm is going to be a no-show as nearly all of the others have been |
| 06:47.20 | wps | the weatherman say to hunker down because a doozy is coming and that we'll se several inches, but then I just get a flake or two at my house |
| 06:49.20 | beandog | really? |
| 06:49.21 | beandog | it rained here |
| 06:49.23 | beandog | really nice |
| 06:49.24 | beandog | just windy |
| 06:49.45 | wps | they says that a big snow storm is going to start in the morning |
| 06:49.53 | beandog | hmm |
| 06:50.03 | beandog | seems strange, since its almost hot outside |
| 06:50.21 | wps | it being warm is actually an indicator that there is a storm coming |
| 06:50.27 | beandog | oh. |
| 06:50.36 | wps | it usually warms up right before it snows |
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| 20:15.20 | mgeary | ~ping herlo |
| 20:15.20 | jbot | pong herlo |
| 20:15.33 | mgeary | ~ping wps |
| 20:15.34 | jbot | pong wps |
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| 20:18.43 | mgeary | yeah |
| 20:18.46 | herlo | mgeary: pong |
| 20:18.47 | mgeary | that's what i'm pinging about |
| 20:18.49 | mgeary | i've GOT IT |
| 20:18.51 | orsonj | tar -zcf - ./code/xtras | ssh dev.gearyweb.com "cat > archive.tgz" |
| 20:18.54 | mgeary | we were so close |
| 20:18.56 | mgeary | heh |
| 20:18.57 | herlo | ahh |
| 20:18.57 | mgeary | yeap |
| 20:18.59 | mgeary | that's exactly it |
| 20:19.00 | orsonj | that was my suggestion |
| 20:19.08 | herlo | I knew I was close |
| 20:19.11 | mgeary | that does it |
| 20:19.14 | mgeary | however |
| 20:19.19 | herlo | the cat thing didn't work for me at first |
| 20:19.29 | herlo | I think I might have missed the > though |
| 20:19.30 | mgeary | you do need to make sure that the extraction process respects resource forks |
| 20:19.30 | orsonj | no quotes? |
| 20:19.39 | herlo | another thought might be to use zcat ? |
| 20:19.56 | mgeary | extracting on Tiger, using tar ignores the RFs, but extracting using BOMhelper keeps 'em |
| 20:19.57 | mgeary | woot |
| 20:20.04 | orsonj | I think you just need to make sure you do the tar command on the mac, everything else is just getting the transfer to work. |
| 20:20.05 | herlo | not sure if mac has zcat though |
| 20:20.15 | mgeary | what does zcat do? |
| 20:20.21 | mgeary | mac has it |
| 20:20.26 | herlo | cats a gzipped/bzipped file |
| 20:20.26 | beandog | cats gzipped files |
| 20:20.33 | mgeary | ah |
| 20:20.34 | beandog | gzcat /proc/config.gz |
| 20:20.37 | orsonj | I think it uncompresses it? |
| 20:20.44 | herlo | ahh, yes |
| 20:20.46 | beandog | er, zcat./ |
| 20:20.48 | beandog | whateve.r |
| 20:20.48 | herlo | so nevermind |
| 20:21.27 | herlo | beandog: hey, do you know an easy way to transcode from audio/video inputs to ogg/vorbis on the fly using mencoder or something? |
| 20:21.40 | beandog | on the fly? |
| 20:21.46 | beandog | oh |
| 20:21.50 | beandog | like recording something? |
| 20:22.00 | herlo | yeah |
| 20:22.06 | beandog | mencoder /dev/input -ovc copy -oac vorbis -o whatever.avi |
| 20:22.14 | herlo | I am planning on screencasting, and recording audio at the same time |
| 20:22.17 | beandog | depends a lot on the input |
| 20:22.29 | beandog | could be high-rate video |
| 20:22.34 | orsonj | ffmpeg2theora already_finished_file.avi |
| 20:22.35 | herlo | is the video ogg/vorbis? |
| 20:22.41 | orsonj | I don't know about live though. |
| 20:22.51 | herlo | orsonj: yeah, that'd work after the fact |
| 20:23.23 | herlo | I'm working on a larger scale production of streaming LUG meetings |
| 20:23.30 | herlo | s/ger/ge/g |
| 20:23.43 | orsonj | there is a bunch of examples if you run ffmpeg2theora without options |
| 20:23.53 | orsonj | looks like it can do streaming/etc |
| 20:24.23 | herlo | orsonj: cool, I'll look into it |
| 20:26.55 | orsonj | for more complex setups, it looks like you'd have to use ffmpeg/mencoder directly |
| 20:27.21 | orsonj | vlc might work too. |
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| 21:32.45 | mindjuju | man, what i wouldn't give for some Tapatio-butter popcorn |
| 21:34.48 | orsonj | sounds good, just add tapatio as you heat the oil? |
| 21:35.22 | mindjuju | i do it after its popped |
| 21:35.59 | mindjuju | get orvil butter pop, slap that bad boy in the micro and let it go for a spin, then if you have a big bowl, pour the corn in the bowl and then sprinkle tapatio to taste over the corn |
| 21:36.11 | mindjuju | or if no bowl, sprinkle in pop bag to taste |
| 21:36.28 | mindjuju | its maddeningly good |
| 21:36.37 | orsonj | I came across this recipe and have been using it ever since: http://www.elise.com/recipes/archives/000146perfect_popcorn.php |
| 21:36.56 | orsonj | (standard popcorn, but easily modified for extra ingredients) |
| 21:37.56 | mindjuju | that's looking pretty good so far |
| 21:38.12 | mindjuju | i have a hot air popper too, but it makes a rukus and can only use it on the weekends |
| 21:39.14 | mindjuju | cayenne flavor oil could do the trick |
| 21:39.21 | orsonj | My inlaws have an old pressure cooker that they use exclusively for popcorn. It works really well. Nice thick bottom. |
| 21:39.24 | mindjuju | like put some peppers into the oil and let sit, then pop the corn with it |
| 21:41.29 | mindjuju | so orsonj, what you up to and is it snowing in your neck of the woods? |
| 21:42.14 | orsonj | It stopped a while ago, but we got 6" or so on top of the stuff we allready had. |
| 21:43.01 | orsonj | I had fun driving through it to get out of the driveway. (back 2' forward 3' repeat til out) |
| 21:43.56 | orsonj | I'm hacking an old version of istanbul to record portions of the screen rather than the entirety. |
| 21:44.20 | orsonj | I could use upgrading to a newer ubuntu. |
| 21:44.21 | mindjuju | hey, that sounds cool |
| 21:44.49 | orsonj | mainpipeline = 'ximagesrc ! ffmpegcolorspace ! videoscale ! video/x-raw-yuv,width=%d,height=%d,framerate=%f' % (width, height, framerate) |
| 21:44.57 | orsonj | mainpipeline = 'ximagesrc ! ffmpegcolorspace ! videocrop top=618 left=0 right=724 bottom=26 ! videoscale ! video/x-raw-yuv,width=300,height=124,framerate=%f' % (framerate) |
| 21:45.03 | orsonj | that is my change so far. |
| 21:45.26 | mindjuju | no snow here, just rain |
| 21:46.02 | orsonj | I should go take a picture while it is still sunny. |
| 21:58.40 | mindjuju | i traditionally use images, but wondering what is the long term better way |
| 22:01.02 | orsonj | I'm not sure how to separate the two. Is there some kind of drop shadow property now? |
| 22:01.33 | mindjuju | nope, w3c gives a hacked up CSS nested div example - http://www.w3.org/Style/Examples/007/shadows |
| 22:01.54 | mindjuju | at which point i have to think i should continue to use images |
| 22:02.02 | mindjuju | but thought i'd take a poll to see what is consensus |
| 22:03.29 | orsonj | ewww, I don't like their example. |
| 22:03.48 | orsonj | ~lart dumb example |
| 22:03.48 | jbot | accelerates a free AOL cd to 50,000 rpm and lets dumb example feel it |
| 22:03.58 | mindjuju | yup, really bad in my opinion |
| 22:04.49 | orsonj | I'd rather use some sort of border hack with images. |
| 22:05.58 | mindjuju | yeah, that's kinda what i was thinking |
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