| 00:00.18 | PoeticIntensity | wow |
| 00:00.20 | PoeticIntensity | that' |
| 00:00.52 | PoeticIntensity | s not good. |
| 00:00.52 | PoeticIntensity | I need a good cookie. |
| 00:00.52 | PoeticIntensity | any recommendations? |
| 00:01.31 | Jacob_Kerr | LOL I know my code's sloppy.. |
| 00:01.32 | SunSparc | Oatmeal Chocolate Chip |
| 00:01.51 | PoeticIntensity | good...good... |
| 00:01.54 | Jacob_Kerr | LEtz just say I started it awhile ago and it needs a good update |
| 00:05.14 | Lone_Wanderer | PoeticIntensity: oatmeal raisin |
| 00:05.15 | Lone_Wanderer | although... |
| 00:05.26 | PoeticIntensity | hrm.... |
| 00:05.46 | PoeticIntensity | My vote between the two would definitely be in favor of the oatmeal chocolate chip. |
| 00:06.13 | SunSparc | I also like "White Chocolate with Macadamia Nut" and my favorite has to be "Pumpkin Chocolate Chip". |
| 00:06.28 | PoeticIntensity | again, a great recommendation... |
| 00:06.38 | PoeticIntensity | I've got a serious case of the munchies. |
| 00:06.48 | PoeticIntensity | and I don't get off until 6:30 |
| 00:06.52 | SunSparc | Lay off the weed, man. |
| 00:07.08 | Lone_Wanderer | quit |
| 00:24.28 | timinator | I'm out.... later guys |
| 00:30.59 | mgeary | later folks |
| 00:31.02 | *** part/#uphpu mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 00:31.58 | mindjuju | fungus - http://gizmodo.com/339349/rumors-ultraportable-macbook-and-the-multitouch-trackpad |
| 00:32.37 | fungus | w00t! |
| 00:32.43 | fungus | just what I want. |
| 00:33.45 | mindjuju | yup :) |
| 00:33.57 | mindjuju | i remember you saying you liked smaller |
| 00:40.17 | jsmith | mindjuju: I'm just here to keep you humble, that's all ;-) |
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| 15:21.27 | timinator | morning guys |
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| 15:54.58 | mindjuj1 | morning |
| 15:55.06 | orsonj | morning |
| 15:55.14 | orsonj | cold too |
| 15:55.18 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o mindjuju] by ChanServ |
| 15:55.45 | orsonj | my car didn't warm up till I parked. And I'd been driving for half an hour. |
| 15:56.26 | timinator | LOL |
| 15:56.50 | orsonj | I just sat in it idling for a few minutes so I could feel the warmth. |
| 16:00.08 | mindjuju | sadly, it's supposed to be ice cold like for the next week |
| 16:03.40 | mindjuju | i thought you just got an office upgrade? |
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| 16:09.59 | mgeary | morning folks |
| 16:10.29 | timinator | morning |
| 16:11.26 | jsmith | morning! |
| 16:12.33 | mindjuju | sup mgeary |
| 16:13.34 | thebigdog | mindjuju, well yeah |
| 16:13.36 | mgeary | hey, anyone here familiar with configuring routers to block stuff? |
| 16:13.40 | thebigdog | but the work is getting boring and slow |
| 16:13.49 | thebigdog | mgeary, what type of router |
| 16:14.14 | mgeary | Cisco DSL thingy. i think it's a 686 |
| 16:14.54 | mgeary | we need to restrict one of our internal machines from hitting certain domains and/or using certain ports/protocols |
| 16:15.40 | mgeary | i'd do it on the machine directly, but i would prefer that the user on that machine retain admin privileges, which would defeat the point |
| 16:16.09 | jsmith | mgeary: the Cisco 678 doesn't give you much in the way of access controls |
| 16:16.29 | mgeary | i figured as much |
| 16:16.31 | jsmith | mgeary: Can you pass all his traffic through a transparent proxy? |
| 16:17.20 | mgeary | jsmith: possibly, but could i then also prevent that machine from connecting directly to the router? |
| 16:17.59 | jsmith | mgeary: If a person has physical access to a machine, they've got root anyway |
| 16:18.10 | jsmith | mgeary: If the user can't be trusted, they can't be trusted. |
| 16:18.21 | mgeary | well, that's the problem i'm trying to avoid, eh? |
| 16:18.48 | mgeary | we just want to offer a bit of....encouragement to keep work time as *work* time |
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| 16:19.06 | mgeary | i'd rather not be a nazi about it, but this is the next step of escalation |
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| 16:19.38 | thebigdog | mgeary, it might be time to be a network nazi |
| 16:20.22 | mgeary | yup. i just want to have a couple of domains resolve locally (to some null address) |
| 16:20.50 | mindjuju | too bad you can just make it so in the host file |
| 16:20.59 | dataw0lf | morning |
| 16:21.02 | mindjuju | and do periodic checks |
| 16:21.19 | mindjuju | sup dataw0lf |
| 16:21.25 | timinator | sup DW |
| 16:21.31 | mgeary | yeah, i'd rather do it at the router level, though |
| 16:21.44 | mindjuju | hey dataw0lf, mgeary needs some help |
| 16:21.57 | timinator | BRB |
| 16:21.57 | mgeary | jsmith: do you know if the Cisco 678 can have a hosts file of sorts? |
| 16:22.04 | dataw0lf | with what? |
| 16:22.05 | jsmith | mgeary: Uh, no |
| 16:22.08 | mindjuju | sounds like he may have an employee that needs encouragement in working |
| 16:22.43 | mindjuju | (9:15:04 AM) mgeary: we need to restrict one of our internal machines from hitting certain domains and/or using certain ports/protocols |
| 16:22.46 | jsmith | mindjuju: Technology can't fix social problems |
| 16:23.10 | mgeary | jsmith: true that, but at this point in the escalation i just want to provide some "encouragement" |
| 16:23.12 | dataw0lf | jsmith does have a point |
| 16:23.30 | dataw0lf | a network solution to a worker's laziness will just end up in them circumventing the network solution |
| 16:23.49 | dataw0lf | which they'll doubtless be able to do if they want it bad enough; just fire him. |
| 16:24.03 | mgeary | well, that's the final point in the escalation |
| 16:24.07 | dataw0lf | "don't want to work? I can help with that." |
| 16:24.18 | dataw0lf | oh mgeary, you're such a bleeding heart sometimes |
| 16:24.32 | dataw0lf | but anyways, proxy him *shrug* |
| 16:24.50 | mgeary | yeah |
| 16:25.04 | jsmith | mgeary: In short, it's gonna take more than twiddling a couple of bits on the 678 |
| 16:25.05 | dataw0lf | that way you'll have the minute control you want as well as observation of behavior (port / site gets banned, ssh usage goes up) |
| 16:25.34 | mgeary | except that then i also need to revoke root privs, else he can just remove the proxy and hit the router directly |
| 16:25.52 | mgeary | unless i can configure the router to disallow that |
| 16:25.54 | dataw0lf | not if you put the proxy BETWEEN him and the router |
| 16:26.16 | dataw0lf | and disallowing root privileges -- why ? |
| 16:26.29 | dataw0lf | that's fairly impossible if he's a geek |
| 16:26.38 | dataw0lf | and has local access to the machine |
| 16:26.45 | mgeary | yeah |
| 16:26.58 | dataw0lf | also, doesn't he have to run root to manage his workstation correctly? |
| 16:27.05 | dataw0lf | (as a geek) |
| 16:27.07 | mgeary | well, that's the thing. i'd prefer that |
| 16:27.09 | mgeary | yeah |
| 16:27.26 | dataw0lf | what's the reasoning behind revoking root? |
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| 16:28.08 | dataw0lf | mgeary, I just don't think it's worth the effort you want to put in, as honorable as it may be. |
| 16:28.31 | dataw0lf | if you sit him down and talk seriously with him, and the behavior doesn't cease -- can't do much with that. |
| 16:28.46 | mindjuju | dataw0lf ++ |
| 16:28.51 | mgeary | i don't entirely agree |
| 16:29.24 | dataw0lf | proxy between router and machine then |
| 16:29.25 | mgeary | esp. with a young employee, an employer has an opportunity to help mold behavior |
| 16:29.49 | mgeary | i can either try to do him a favor for the rest of his life, or i can dump him. i'd prefer the former |
| 16:29.55 | dataw0lf | I can see your point, mgeary -- I'm just not a fan of micromanagement and having to fix a behavior as ridiculous as "not working" |
| 16:30.25 | mgeary | it's not so much "not working" as it is, "allowing oneself to be distracted" |
| 16:30.26 | dataw0lf | if you're a bad programmer, I'll probably moan for a while, but in the end I'll help you overcome that -- at least you're trying. |
| 16:30.59 | dataw0lf | you have any compunction sharing what the distraction is? |
| 16:31.58 | dataw0lf | I advise my teams to have one non programming / non job specific activity available to them if they get bored / stuck |
| 16:32.00 | mgeary | dataw0lf: just hanging out too much in an online gaming forum. |
| 16:32.14 | dataw0lf | mgeary: Ah. WoW? |
| 16:32.18 | dataw0lf | or duels.com |
| 16:32.23 | mgeary | UT3 |
| 16:32.39 | mgeary | he appears to be an administrator for the forum, but that's not my problem |
| 16:32.54 | dataw0lf | I had a problem with a guy here playing duels.com, I sat him down and discussed it with him, he fixed it. |
| 16:32.59 | dataw0lf | have you had a discussion with him? |
| 16:33.19 | mgeary | yeah, first warning |
| 16:33.27 | dataw0lf | still doing it huh? |
| 16:33.51 | dataw0lf | should you really have to block the site, though? |
| 16:34.01 | dataw0lf | you trusted him to correct his behavior, he's going behind your back. |
| 16:34.01 | mgeary | well, it would send a message |
| 16:34.27 | dataw0lf | I'd bring up the trust issue and give him a last warning. |
| 16:34.28 | mgeary | "oh, they're monitoring the logs. i guess i'd better watch what i'm doing" |
| 16:35.07 | dataw0lf | right but this is a symptom of a deeper problem, don't you think? |
| 16:35.25 | dataw0lf | if you can only get him to work through fear of reprisal, his work life isn't healthy, for whatever reason. |
| 16:35.44 | dataw0lf | "hey, is what we do here boring to you?" |
| 16:35.51 | dataw0lf | "not challenging enough?" |
| 16:35.55 | timinator | ya, I agree w/ DW..... set him down, tell him this is a for-profit company |
| 16:36.19 | dataw0lf | if he has a problem on what he's working with, see if you can get him on another project that'll be more interesting if possible. |
| 16:36.44 | mindjuju | too bad you can't do some kind of inject where when he does writes posts to the forum, you "modify" what he says to something humorous |
| 16:36.48 | dataw0lf | but you have to put your foot down. And passive aggressively blocking him from certain sites isn't really an answer. |
| 16:37.03 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: you could do that with the proxy... |
| 16:37.08 | timinator | I agree |
| 16:38.00 | *** join/#uphpu _psychic_ (n=_psychic@66.7.114.125) |
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| 16:38.03 | mgeary | dataw0lf: not an answer, but the next step in escalation |
| 16:38.18 | mgeary | "we'll help you focus on work, if you need that" |
| 16:38.34 | timinator | dataw0lf has got me all riled up.... let me talk to the boy!!! |
| 16:38.45 | dataw0lf | mgeary: alright. well, use a proxy. :) |
| 16:38.47 | mgeary | if *that* is bypassed (through relays, anonymizers, etc) then it's hasta la vista |
| 16:40.12 | timinator | twitch twitch |
| 16:40.19 | *** join/#uphpu SunSparc (n=sparky@66.7.114.125) |
| 16:40.32 | timinator | this is a normal side effect... you get used to it quickly |
| 16:41.11 | timinator | just listen to techno... people will think you're bouncing to the music instead of twitching |
| 16:41.17 | timinator | right mindjuju?!? |
| 16:41.24 | mindjuju | heck ya! |
| 16:41.26 | *** join/#uphpu kingsol_ (n=kingsol@64.0.193.254) |
| 16:41.32 | mindjuju | i've got DJ Jace playin |
| 16:41.42 | *** part/#uphpu kingsol_ (n=kingsol@64.0.193.254) |
| 16:42.12 | timinator | Tenacious D++ |
| 16:42.30 | dataw0lf | 1,2,3,4 SIX SIX SIX |
| 16:43.13 | dataw0lf | and that's why me and KG are classically trained to rock your f****** socks off, give em a taste KG |
| 16:47.31 | timinator | bou tchi bou tchi bou tchi bou tchi bou tchi |
| 16:53.10 | mindjuju | i need to get up to NYC |
| 16:53.25 | mindjuju | I saw this place on the History Channel - http://www.carnegiedeli.com/ |
| 16:53.34 | dataw0lf | the carnegie deli? |
| 16:53.37 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 16:53.40 | mindjuju | yup |
| 16:53.53 | mindjuju | that pastrami sandwich, dude, that looked killer |
| 16:54.01 | mindjuju | looks like they might fed ex it |
| 16:54.10 | dataw0lf | I know they ship their cheesecake |
| 16:55.13 | jsmith | mindjuju: Seriously? Fedex me one! |
| 16:55.36 | thebigdog | i want a cheesecake |
| 16:56.28 | mindjuju | maybe we could get herlo to pick us up some stuff next time he's in NYC |
| 16:56.52 | SunSparc | If you want a good pastrami sandwich and cannot wait for FedEx or make it to NYC, just go to Siegfried's Deli in downtown SLC. |
| 16:58.31 | mindjuju | holy cow, shipping on the cheesecake is $40 |
| 16:58.43 | mindjuju | along with $30 price of cake |
| 16:59.10 | timinator | I've got a cheesecake connection |
| 16:59.18 | timinator | lady that makes them from scratch |
| 16:59.19 | SunSparc | That better be an amazing cheesecake |
| 16:59.28 | timinator | doesn't even use a blender |
| 16:59.36 | timinator | mixes it w/ a spatula |
| 16:59.42 | timinator | and they're incredible |
| 17:00.40 | mgeary | i've had the pastrami at the Carnegie Deli |
| 17:00.50 | mgeary | it is way good, but they give you about four pounds of it |
| 17:01.22 | mindjuju | mgeary, that's what i want |
| 17:01.26 | mindjuju | the pastrami sandwich |
| 17:01.37 | mindjuju | that looked so freakin' yum on the tv |
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| 17:29.08 | mindjuju | wow, tierra should have a look at it |
| 17:29.17 | Lone_Wanderer | O_O another one, 80-100k |
| 17:29.46 | mindjuju | several of the requirements on the listing i know he has |
| 17:31.35 | RedHeron | Which list is this? |
| 17:31.45 | mindjuju | job list |
| 17:31.57 | mindjuju | but redheron, you can see the posts on the front page of uphpu.org |
| 17:32.06 | mindjuju | right column under recent job announcements |
| 17:32.14 | RedHeron | Oh, awesome! |
| 17:32.21 | mindjuju | yeah, wps rox |
| 17:36.26 | mindjuju | i hate it when "all" doesn't mean ALL |
| 17:36.32 | timinator | is there a formula for figuring download times on a 56k modem? ....besides KB / 56 |
| 17:36.54 | Lone_Wanderer | What's wrong with KB/56? |
| 17:37.01 | *** part/#uphpu mindjuju (n=mindjuju@76.8.222.130) |
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| 17:37.13 | timinator | I dunno.... if it's accurate, then nothing |
| 17:37.31 | PoeticIntensity | I doubt it'd be accurate... |
| 17:37.33 | Lone_Wanderer | It probably isn't, 'cause you're going to have delays and whatnot. |
| 17:37.38 | PoeticIntensity | nobody *really* connects at 56K... |
| 17:37.43 | mindjuju | course though, that is theoretical speed |
| 17:37.43 | timinator | exactly |
| 17:37.44 | mindjuju | yeah |
| 17:37.46 | PoeticIntensity | highest I've ever heard of is 54. |
| 17:37.46 | timinator | ya |
| 17:38.01 | PoeticIntensity | and that was just weird... |
| 17:38.06 | PoeticIntensity | I mostly connected at 48. |
| 17:38.16 | mindjuju | yeah, same here |
| 17:38.22 | mindjuju | good old days of dial up |
| 17:38.26 | PoeticIntensity | yup |
| 17:38.46 | timinator | I'm trying to give a non-techie an illustration of min download speed of his 4MB file and 29 MB file |
| 17:38.50 | PoeticIntensity | anyone ever own a 300 baud modem in here? |
| 17:39.05 | timinator | I had a 28k once |
| 17:39.08 | orsonj | Even if I connect at 56k, I get strange traffic patterns |
| 17:39.20 | PoeticIntensity | first one I had was a 2400 baud... |
| 17:39.26 | PoeticIntensity | ran a BBS off it for years. |
| 17:39.33 | mindjuju | josephscott did |
| 17:39.39 | timinator | so.... perhaps I should divide by 128.... for a low line DSL |
| 17:39.42 | mindjuju | i started at 1200 baud |
| 17:39.50 | PoeticIntensity | nice. |
| 17:40.25 | mindjuju | and we were one of the first to have an 8bit sound card |
| 17:40.58 | PoeticIntensity | Soundblaster Pro, baby.... |
| 17:40.59 | josephscott | my first modem was part of a TRS-80 model 100 portable computer, 300 baud |
| 17:41.02 | PoeticIntensity | now it's in *stereo*! |
| 17:41.30 | orsonj | .ooOO .ooOOO .oooOO <--- I get download patterns that look somewhat like that |
| 17:42.20 | mindjuju | i should fire up procomm plus |
| 17:42.25 | mindjuju | just for old times |
| 17:42.34 | orsonj | the download timer is really confusing (5min,3min,2min,5min,3min,2min,4min,2.5min,2min...) |
| 17:43.33 | tierra | heh, I have every last requirement of that 90k posting, though I could only claim 4 years experience in application design, but I could negotiate that with a small cut from 90k to start |
| 17:43.57 | mindjuju | tierra, that's what i was thinking |
| 17:44.03 | dataw0lf | well why don't you tierra |
| 17:44.07 | mindjuju | except for that pay cut part |
| 17:44.23 | mindjuju | dude, you kick A, you should go for the $90k |
| 17:44.40 | mindjuju | and say they are getting you a bargain basement price |
| 17:44.43 | tierra | the only thing on there that I'm still a little new with is XSLT, but I do know it, and have written XSLT... I'm highly experienced with all the rest |
| 17:44.48 | mindjuju | cuz of your subversion skillz |
| 17:46.00 | mindjuju | just remember, if you get more than a 20k increase, you got to treat @ next user meet |
| 17:46.23 | tierra | haha |
| 17:46.44 | thebigdog | i better apply for that position :) |
| 17:47.56 | mindjuju | estimated 2 week paycheck before tax - $3461 |
| 17:47.57 | tierra | ugh, looks like the job is probably in Provo :( |
| 17:48.34 | mindjuju | for a paycheck like that, i think i'd move to a town of 10 people |
| 17:48.45 | mgeary | ;) |
| 17:48.48 | tierra | hehe |
| 17:50.41 | Lone_Wanderer | tierra: go for it man. Don't sell yourself short. |
| 17:50.48 | mgeary | seems like i've heard something about Spark Networks. Ring any bells for anyone here? |
| 17:51.02 | tierra | it's new to me |
| 17:51.21 | brasto | if any |
| 17:51.37 | thebigdog | k |
| 17:51.45 | thebigdog | ill have a read over |
| 17:51.49 | SunSparc | thanks |
| 17:52.10 | Lone_Wanderer | tierra: I always consider job posting "requirements" to be more like a wish list. A Christmas list if you will. Sort of like when a teenage girl writes in her diary about her future husband. |
| 17:52.57 | Lone_Wanderer | "He's going to have perfect teeth and rock hard abs and he'll make a million dollars a day and he will never make a mistake ever. Also he will have good fashion sense. P.S. Mary Jane is a snob I hate her!" |
| 17:52.58 | tierra | haha, yeah, I know the drill on postings |
| 17:53.23 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh, btw. |
| 17:53.35 | Lone_Wanderer | I am finally beginning to understand the beauty of Lisp macros. |
| 17:53.46 | Lone_Wanderer | I just wanted to share this piece of good news with everyone. |
| 17:53.59 | tierra | nice |
| 17:54.00 | _psychic_ | what is that beauty |
| 17:54.36 | brasto | Lone_Wanderer might be talking about Chuck Norris |
| 17:54.40 | brasto | ~chuckfact |
| 17:54.40 | jbot | Chuck Norris uses Tabasco Sauce for eye drops |
| 17:55.04 | brasto | ~chuckfact |
| 17:55.04 | jbot | Chuck Norris uses Tabasco Sauce for eye drops |
| 17:55.15 | Lone_Wanderer | Chuck Norris doesn't understand Lisp macros, Lisp macros understand Chuck Norris. |
| 17:55.27 | timinator | LOL |
| 17:55.45 | Lone_Wanderer | The Y Combinator was created when Chuck Norris first touched a computer. |
| 17:56.10 | mgeary | it is pretty remarkable to see two $80k+ jobs posted to the list in a single day |
| 17:56.14 | Lone_Wanderer | _psychic_: It's hard to explain :p especially if you don't already know Lisp. |
| 17:56.59 | _psychic_ | Lone_Wanderer: what do you use it for |
| 17:57.14 | Lone_Wanderer | I don't, actually. |
| 17:57.23 | _psychic_ | I've heard about all these fantastical languages (Scheme, Lua, Lisp, Haskell), but never got much of an inkling what they were good for |
| 17:57.35 | _psychic_ | past knowing about new techniques. |
| 17:57.36 | Lone_Wanderer | Lisp is mostly just good for expanding your mind. |
| 17:57.59 | Lone_Wanderer | (Don't say that in #lisp though, you'll get castrated.) |
| 17:58.16 | _psychic_ | yeah that's what I thought |
| 17:58.46 | _psychic_ | I don't much fancy learning a language just to expand my mind - it needs to be useful in virtue of itself. |
| 17:58.48 | dataw0lf | it's better than PHP that offers nothing but bad habits and obfuscation of real programming paradigms. |
| 17:59.06 | _psychic_ | that might be true |
| 17:59.13 | Lone_Wanderer | s/might be/is |
| 17:59.14 | _psychic_ | and probably is |
| 17:59.19 | _psychic_ | but what are people using it for? |
| 17:59.22 | SunSparc | _psychic_: You should have told that to my Lisp and Pascal college professors. |
| 17:59.24 | Lone_Wanderer | Lots of things. |
| 17:59.28 | _psychic_ | such as |
| 17:59.31 | dataw0lf | everything they shouldn't be. |
| 17:59.44 | _psychic_ | PHP is horrible and useless, yet everyone uses it. So I use it. |
| 17:59.47 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, pick something. Someone is probably developing it in Lisp. |
| 17:59.50 | _psychic_ | What are people using Lisp for. |
| 17:59.59 | dataw0lf | a variety of things. |
| 18:00.02 | dataw0lf | commercially? Not so much. |
| 18:00.03 | _psychic_ | No big commercial poster children for List? |
| 18:00.11 | _psychic_ | *Lisp |
| 18:00.12 | Lone_Wanderer | Yahoo Stores |
| 18:00.15 | dataw0lf | what's the big commercial poster child for PHP? |
| 18:00.21 | _psychic_ | digg, I suppose |
| 18:00.21 | dataw0lf | Facebook? backend isn't PHP. |
| 18:00.24 | Lone_Wanderer | much of Orbitz |
| 18:00.30 | _psychic_ | and lots of Yahoo |
| 18:00.49 | dataw0lf | yahoo? Yahoo uses C++, Python, and Java primarily. |
| 18:00.59 | josephscott | Yahoo uses lots of PHP |
| 18:01.00 | Lone_Wanderer | Yahoo actually rewrote it in something else when they bought the company that developed Yahoo Stores (which wasn't called that originally, obviously, but I forgot their name.) |
| 18:01.01 | _psychic_ | I don't think there's much question on people using PHP commercially for large projects - but I don't want this to turn into a PHP vs. Language X war |
| 18:01.13 | _psychic_ | I'm wondering about Lisp |
| 18:01.21 | Lone_Wanderer | check out lemonodor.com |
| 18:01.37 | josephscott | look at the high traffic sites out there, they don't succeed because of the application stack they use |
| 18:01.54 | _psychic_ | high traffic sites don't succeed? ;) |
| 18:02.20 | dataw0lf | it's not about succeeding anyways. |
| 18:02.25 | dataw0lf | it's about the development of the engineer. |
| 18:02.41 | dataw0lf | I think PHP is in many ways inhibiting and even negative to an engineer's growth. |
| 18:03.06 | josephscott | _psychic_: read the whole line :-) |
| 18:03.10 | dataw0lf | at least in the first four years at least. |
| 18:03.18 | dataw0lf | s/at least// |
| 18:03.29 | _psychic_ | josephscott: I did :) |
| 18:03.47 | josephscott | for instance, twitter isn't hugely popular because they use rails |
| 18:05.00 | dataw0lf | the fact that you have people developing "frameworks" for PHP, a framework-esque language in and of itself, incurs my wrath too. |
| 18:05.13 | dataw0lf | it's like trying to stop someone's jugular bleeding with a scooby doo bandaid. |
| 18:05.56 | dataw0lf | admittedly, PHP is almost palatable when used in conjunction with CakePHP or CodeIgniter. |
| 18:06.03 | _psychic_ | php is framework-esque? |
| 18:06.13 | dataw0lf | Certainly. |
| 18:06.27 | dataw0lf | Note I did not say MVC paradigm-esque. |
| 18:06.27 | _psychic_ | SPL, which is kinda recent, is the only thing that might support that |
| 18:06.29 | _psychic_ | imho |
| 18:06.36 | dataw0lf | Even though you might confuse the two. |
| 18:06.37 | josephscott | just like C is high level-esque :-) |
| 18:06.48 | dataw0lf | No, a framework provides rapid development tools for a specific task. |
| 18:06.54 | _psychic_ | a bunch of functions? |
| 18:07.11 | dataw0lf | yea, that's the pity, isn't it? |
| 18:07.20 | _psychic_ | I wouldn't call functions RAD tools. |
| 18:07.53 | dataw0lf | the whole point of a function is to encapsulate a certain method of logic so you don't repeat yourself and you can change the logic in a central place. |
| 18:08.02 | dataw0lf | If that isn't a facility for rapid development, what is? |
| 18:08.17 | orsonj | postit notes all over the wall :) |
| 18:08.32 | _psychic_ | you can define "functions" in ASM, which I wouldn't call a framework-esque language |
| 18:08.45 | dataw0lf | now you're intentionally taking my words wrong. |
| 18:08.50 | _psychic_ | to prove a point |
| 18:09.00 | _psychic_ | framework means how to lay something out |
| 18:09.14 | _psychic_ | more than just a collection of stuff that helps get things done faster |
| 18:09.23 | _psychic_ | imo |
| 18:09.31 | dataw0lf | defining a function and providing a function for every common aspect of what you're trying to accomplish (web development) is obviously different. |
| 18:09.59 | dataw0lf | PHP provides crappy versions of a lot of things that you need to accomplish in a web environment (in the global namespace, no less) |
| 18:10.05 | _psychic_ | yeah but isn't the main idea behind a framework some sort of outline about how things are organized in an app? |
| 18:10.37 | _psychic_ | libraries aren't frameworks - and that's the main difference |
| 18:10.41 | dataw0lf | how would you define PHP? It forces you to design your application around a cluttered global namespace with no deriving possible without twisting a programming paradigm (OOP) to fit your needs. |
| 18:10.49 | josephscott | I so wanted namespaces to be part of PHP5 from the beginning, sigh |
| 18:11.18 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: which is why it's "framework-esque". It's like, the worst framework that's ever been written. |
| 18:11.54 | _psychic_ | I think you define framework different than I do. |
| 18:12.36 | dataw0lf | what's more fair. To compare PHP with Ruby, or PHP with Rails? |
| 18:12.44 | dataw0lf | PHP with Rails, I'd say. |
| 18:12.44 | _psychic_ | PHP/Ruby |
| 18:12.48 | _psychic_ | :) |
| 18:13.15 | _psychic_ | So, if PHP is so framework-ized, why can't I pick up any PHP app and automatically know how things are organized? |
| 18:13.31 | _psychic_ | If it's so limiting (toward the bad) shouldn't they be more similar? |
| 18:13.44 | dataw0lf | you can "crappily" |
| 18:13.55 | _psychic_ | ? |
| 18:14.38 | dataw0lf | PHP will almost always end up crappily organized. It's inherent in the language. No amount of hacks trying to warp the language to deny itself will fix that. |
| 18:15.08 | _psychic_ | So why is there such a difference between a Cake/CI app and something like OSCommerce? |
| 18:15.14 | _psychic_ | I don't find Cake/CI apps to be crappy. |
| 18:15.50 | dataw0lf | well, I do, just less so than PHP proper. Just because there are variety of ways to organize something doesn't mean they aren't all generally crappy. |
| 18:15.53 | dataw0lf | See: Perl. |
| 18:16.15 | _psychic_ | timtowdi |
| 18:16.18 | _psychic_ | right |
| 18:16.24 | SunSparc | dataw0lf: I think the organization of a PHP app depends almost entirely on the practices and patterns the engineer employs. |
| 18:16.26 | dataw0lf | the problem with PHP and it's proponents is that PHP will continue to evolve as a web specific language, and a badly done one at that. |
| 18:16.28 | _psychic_ | but the more flexibility in organization, the less framework-ish it is |
| 18:17.27 | _psychic_ | I still maintain that PHP is not a framework. There's too many possible ways to organize how web applications are put together |
| 18:17.38 | dataw0lf | I said framework-esque. |
| 18:17.48 | _psychic_ | yeah that too |
| 18:17.49 | _psychic_ | :) |
| 18:18.33 | dataw0lf | personally, I think it looks like a framework that was worked upon by a dozen autistic S&M fans. |
| 18:19.28 | dataw0lf | haven't we argued about this before? |
| 18:19.30 | Lone_Wanderer | anyway |
| 18:19.33 | dataw0lf | or was it JavaScript frameworks |
| 18:19.38 | SunSparc | dataw0lf: Please define "crappy organization" |
| 18:19.46 | _psychic_ | yeah probably :) |
| 18:19.52 | Lone_Wanderer | a Lisp macro is like a function in that you call it with some arguments and it returns something |
| 18:20.06 | Lone_Wanderer | but it's different in that what it returns is code which is then executed in place of the call to the macro |
| 18:20.17 | _psychic_ | I don't argue that PHP isn't the a great language, but to say it categorically precludes good apps just by virtue of itself doesnt' seem correct. |
| 18:20.36 | Lone_Wanderer | similar to calling eval(some_function(list of arguments)) where some_function returns executable PHP code. |
| 18:20.45 | Lone_Wanderer | Only not completely retarded, because Lisp is awesome and PHP is not. |
| 18:20.59 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: I have never said that. Some are less crappily produced then others. Like I said, CakePHP and CI both alleviate a lot of the bother. |
| 18:21.21 | dataw0lf | Still, you can't throw a rat in the oven and hope a pot roast is going to emerge. |
| 18:21.36 | dataw0lf | you can make it taste good to an extent. And pretty, if you have some good garnish. |
| 18:21.37 | SunSparc | Lone_Wanderer: lol |
| 18:22.00 | Lone_Wanderer | mmm, baked rat |
| 18:22.21 | dataw0lf | SunSparc: Crappy Organization: What a PHP developer resorts to with dozens of include and require calls, importing numerous variables into their global namespace. |
| 18:22.39 | dataw0lf | or (2) Crappy Organization: PHP developers using classes for everything because PHP doesn't support native alternate namespaces. |
| 18:23.11 | _psychic_ | seems like you confuse developer skill for language quality. Sure, PHP suffers in quality, but you avoid that if you're competent. |
| 18:23.13 | dataw0lf | (and you can't specifically include from a file goes along with that) |
| 18:23.15 | SunSparc | dataw0lf: Sounds like some of the programming I have done in C. |
| 18:23.23 | _psychic_ | A bad developer can screw up any language. |
| 18:23.30 | SunSparc | _psychic_: exactly |
| 18:24.05 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: I agree. But because of PHP's ease of transgression, and it's believed suitability of use for beginning developers, there are many more "bad" PHP developers than most languages. |
| 18:24.20 | _psychic_ | I agree |
| 18:24.29 | dataw0lf | I manage teams that work with clients in probably 7 major languages. |
| 18:24.47 | dataw0lf | PHP developers are worse, statistically, than any other developer I've encountered. |
| 18:24.54 | dataw0lf | Save, perhaps, ColdFusion developers. |
| 18:25.43 | _psychic_ | well it's advantage is its disadvatage. Easy uptake, lots of adoption. Easy uptake, lots of dross. |
| 18:26.00 | _psychic_ | But don't confuse that with PHP's ability to perform. |
| 18:26.06 | dataw0lf | there are easier languages to learn that don't teach the same amount of bad habits. |
| 18:26.26 | Lone_Wanderer | Saying that you can do stuff with it and that therefore it should be used doesn't seem like a particularly good argument to me. |
| 18:26.30 | _psychic_ | teach or allow? |
| 18:26.40 | dataw0lf | both. |
| 18:26.46 | dataw0lf | PHP teaches bad habits from the get go. You don't concur? |
| 18:26.56 | dataw0lf | it definitely allows bad habits as well. |
| 18:27.04 | _psychic_ | PHP, meaning the people who build and release the language? |
| 18:27.10 | _psychic_ | every language allows bad habits |
| 18:27.17 | Lone_Wanderer | Because you can do a lot of good stuff with any Turing-equivalent language, but there's clearly a difference between Python and brainf*&^ |
| 18:27.31 | dataw0lf | Please, don't act like a language's base semantics don't influence a developer in use, especially a beginning developer. |
| 18:27.39 | dataw0lf | I mean the language, not the people. |
| 18:28.12 | dataw0lf | when you use a language enough, you start to think in that language. |
| 18:28.15 | _psychic_ | I guess the question is to what standard. If you talking strict OOP, everything is an object standard, then yes, it teaches bad OOP in places. |
| 18:28.25 | dataw0lf | Not just OOP. |
| 18:28.43 | dataw0lf | josephscott: discourse is it's own reward. |
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| 18:28.57 | _psychic_ | rants are their own reward too |
| 18:28.58 | Lone_Wanderer | That's like saying "I could use this hammer which is lightweight and sturdy... oorrrrr I could use this other hammer which is really heavy, has spikes coming out of it and is coated in toxins. They can both do the same job just fine! And you could totally hit your thumb with either of them." |
| 18:29.09 | dataw0lf | me and _psychic_ do this for like an hour every month or so then eventually realize we mean the same thing. |
| 18:29.10 | josephscott | calling people names is it's own reward |
| 18:29.21 | dataw0lf | josephscott: don't I know it! |
| 18:29.23 | Lone_Wanderer | josephscott: You're a retard. |
| 18:29.30 | Lone_Wanderer | :D |
| 18:30.18 | josephscott | that's my mark to return back to my day job: coding in php, everyone's favorite language here on #uPHPu :-) |
| 18:30.20 | _psychic_ | We probably are talking about the same thing. I always appreciate the discussion though. |
| 18:30.30 | _psychic_ | bah no one here likes PHP |
| 18:30.32 | PoeticIntensity | PHP is rife with ways to allow people with no previous programming experience to learn *very* bad programming practices. |
| 18:30.51 | _psychic_ | so are other languages |
| 18:30.57 | dataw0lf | ha! Not Python. |
| 18:31.01 | _psychic_ | really? |
| 18:31.02 | PoeticIntensity | most likely, but I don't know many other languages. |
| 18:31.04 | Black_Chaos | *cough* magic quotes *cough* |
| 18:31.16 | Lone_Wanderer | Look, PHP has a lot of retarded stuff in it. |
| 18:31.22 | PoeticIntensity | *cough* including HTML in code *cough* |
| 18:31.27 | Lone_Wanderer | You can't deny that because DW could sit here and list them all day. |
| 18:31.45 | Black_Chaos | *cough* short tags *cough* |
| 18:31.49 | _psychic_ | um |
| 18:31.56 | _psychic_ | you can do most all those things in Java, Ruby, ASP, etc. |
| 18:32.03 | _psychic_ | none of that is PHP specific |
| 18:32.06 | Lone_Wanderer | Yes you can do stupid stuff in any language but you can smash any car into an overpass support pillar thingie, but that doesn't make a BMW equivalent to a Yugo does it? No. So stop arguing about it already. |
| 18:32.38 | PoeticIntensity | hehe..... |
| 18:32.40 | dataw0lf | yea, but if your car gets possessed by an evil she-witch from Planet Xenon you can't help but crash into the overpass if the witch wants to |
| 18:32.42 | Lone_Wanderer | You *can* do stupid things in any language. |
| 18:32.43 | PoeticIntensity | PHP puts bread on my table... |
| 18:32.44 | dataw0lf | ok I've jumped the shark |
| 18:32.58 | dataw0lf | time to go back to ranting at my employees, I actually get money for that. |
| 18:32.58 | PoeticIntensity | ROFL |
| 18:32.59 | Lone_Wanderer | But PHP encourages it. |
| 18:33.07 | PoeticIntensity | yup. |
| 18:33.58 | _psychic_ | Ask a teaching assistant for CS 142 (Java) how great that language is at coralling newbies into creating good code. |
| 18:34.08 | _psychic_ | you can screw up any language |
| 18:34.11 | Lone_Wanderer | Okay I'm retarded. |
| 18:34.43 | Lone_Wanderer | Can I remove an element in an array if all I have is its value? |
| 18:35.06 | PoeticIntensity | nop |
| 18:35.10 | PoeticIntensity | hehe.. |
| 18:35.10 | PoeticIntensity | yes |
| 18:35.18 | Lone_Wanderer | >.> |
| 18:35.21 | PoeticIntensity | just swap em' and then delete the value - then swap em' back. |
| 18:35.23 | beandog | you could flip it, assuming all the values are unique. |
| 18:35.29 | PoeticIntensity | array_switch (I believe) |
| 18:35.35 | Lone_Wanderer | ok, that's what I was thinking |
| 18:35.38 | beandog | if theyre not unique, you're going to lose some records. |
| 18:35.39 | Lone_Wanderer | but I thought there might be an easier way |
| 18:35.43 | Lone_Wanderer | they should be |
| 18:35.43 | PoeticIntensity | better make sure they're unique, though. |
| 18:35.47 | beandog | you could do a loop |
| 18:35.51 | PoeticIntensity | true. |
| 18:36.05 | beandog | or a search, and then get the key |
| 18:36.23 | beandog | or a grep. |
| 18:36.36 | beandog | echo key(preg_grep($arr, '/foo/')); |
| 18:36.45 | beandog | something like that. |
| 18:36.56 | beandog | I got my arguments backwards. |
| 18:36.57 | beandog | le fail. |
| 18:40.06 | PoeticIntensity | array_search is your answer, Lone_Wanderer . |
| 18:40.19 | PoeticIntensity | http://us.php.net/manual/en/function.array-search.php |
| 18:40.27 | PoeticIntensity | that'll search for the value, and return the key, if found. |
| 18:40.35 | PoeticIntensity | then you'll have the key to delete. |
| 18:40.47 | PoeticIntensity | no looping. |
| 18:41.15 | beandog | PoeticIntensity ftw |
| 18:41.27 | PoeticIntensity | er somethin'... :) |
| 18:42.14 | dataw0lf | psh, for k,v in h.iteritems(): if v=='blah': del[k] |
| 18:42.28 | dataw0lf | err del h[k] |
| 18:42.58 | dataw0lf | where h is the hash, obviously. |
| 18:45.38 | Lone_Wanderer | thanks PI |
| 18:45.56 | Lone_Wanderer | If I were developing in Python, DW, I'd do that. |
| 18:46.22 | dataw0lf | actually, I was wrong, you'd have to use .items() because, duh, iteritems() returns an iterator and you can't change an iterator in place. |
| 18:46.26 | Lone_Wanderer | DW: What are the living arrangements at jump school like? |
| 18:46.43 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: open room barracks |
| 18:47.05 | Lone_Wanderer | How long ago did you go? I heard it was 2 guys to a room |
| 18:47.16 | dataw0lf | I went to jump school.... |
| 18:47.25 | dataw0lf | about 6, 7 years ago |
| 18:47.42 | dataw0lf | you'll have time at end of day to get online, mostly. |
| 18:47.44 | Lone_Wanderer | k |
| 18:48.18 | dataw0lf | 6, 7 years ago?? I'm getting old. |
| 18:49.33 | Lone_Wanderer | unset($keys[array_search($hash, $keys)]); :D |
| 18:49.45 | Lone_Wanderer | I wonder if it'll accept that. Looks like I get to find out. |
| 18:49.55 | Lone_Wanderer | How old are you? |
| 18:50.09 | dataw0lf | 25 and a half |
| 18:50.10 | dataw0lf | >_> |
| 18:50.11 | dataw0lf | <_< |
| 18:50.15 | dataw0lf | like that half? pretty swell. |
| 18:50.25 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm 29 :( |
| 18:51.09 | dataw0lf | wha.. what's that? |
| 18:51.14 | dataw0lf | *from |
| 18:51.37 | Lone_Wanderer | I wish I had time to be SF and an Apache pilot both. |
| 18:52.09 | dataw0lf | don't fly Apaches! |
| 18:52.11 | dataw0lf | jeez dude |
| 18:52.16 | dataw0lf | trying to kill yourself? |
| 18:52.29 | dataw0lf | you'll fly into the ground on a training exercise like half the other Apache pilots |
| 18:52.41 | dataw0lf | besides you won't be thrown into an Apache unless you're one of the worst in flight school. |
| 18:53.00 | Lone_Wanderer | But I want to shoot things and blow them up! |
| 18:53.16 | dataw0lf | you either fly the Apache or shoot stuff down. |
| 18:53.27 | Lone_Wanderer | I want to have a bumper sticker that says "My other vehicle is a gunship". I want to make jokes about how "gunship" is just one letter away from "funship". |
| 18:53.30 | dataw0lf | gunnery pilot == warrant officer. |
| 18:53.42 | dataw0lf | flight officer == commissioned officer |
| 18:54.02 | dataw0lf | if you're co you'll just positively identify hostiles so the warrant will be able to shoot em down |
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| 18:55.23 | Lone_Wanderer | So what *do* I want to fly then? |
| 18:55.27 | Lone_Wanderer | Utah's got Blackhawks. |
| 18:55.48 | dataw0lf | blackhawks, my friend. |
| 18:55.50 | dataw0lf | blackhawks. |
| 18:55.56 | Lone_Wanderer | They don't get as much flight time though. |
| 18:55.58 | dataw0lf | easier to get a civvie job anyway. |
| 18:56.22 | Lone_Wanderer | What do the Night Stalkers fly? |
| 18:57.29 | dataw0lf | black hawks and little birds |
| 18:58.01 | dataw0lf | probably chinooks too |
| 18:58.06 | dataw0lf | but you want to go black hawk |
| 18:58.13 | dataw0lf | little bird might be kinda fun |
| 18:58.30 | Lone_Wanderer | little birds are kiowas right? |
| 18:59.02 | dataw0lf | nah, Cayuse. |
| 18:59.26 | Lone_Wanderer | Anyway back to my original concern. |
| 18:59.33 | Lone_Wanderer | Do I have time to do both? I'm 29. |
| 18:59.47 | dataw0lf | SF and flight school? |
| 18:59.51 | dataw0lf | No. |
| 19:00.21 | dataw0lf | if you make it through either of those they're not going to give up (and spend money on) you to someone else |
| 19:00.22 | Lone_Wanderer | :'( that's what I thought. |
| 19:00.38 | dataw0lf | you're a significant investment if you pass either. |
| 19:00.40 | Lone_Wanderer | ~lart DBs with "address" tables. |
| 19:00.40 | jbot | installs PocketPC on DBs with "address" tables.'s PDA |
| 19:01.09 | Lone_Wanderer | One school has one address. |
| 19:01.22 | Lone_Wanderer | One person has one address. We do not need additional tables for this kthxbye. |
| 19:04.58 | Lone_Wanderer | What if I ETSed and re-enlisted under a different MOS? |
| 19:05.17 | Lone_Wanderer | ...actually my ETS isn't for six years, I'd be way too old by then. |
| 19:05.39 | Lone_Wanderer | Whatever. It's lunchtime. bbl |
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| 19:54.56 | Lone_Luncher | http://programming.reddit.com/info/64g1t/comments/ |
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| 20:30.41 | Lone_Wanderer | Yes but presumably your application requires allowing one entity to have more than one address. |
| 20:30.45 | Lone_Wanderer | This application does not. |
| 20:31.31 | mindjuju | i wish people would keep their brilliant ideas to themselves - http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20080102-wireless-router-security-flaws-could-fuel-viral-outbreak.html |
| 20:32.45 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: why? |
| 20:32.46 | orsonj | mine didn't start with more than one address per entity, although I added address history. |
| 20:32.57 | dataw0lf | this has occured to a lot of viral writers and experts. |
| 20:33.04 | orsonj | I just didn't want to type in the same address for siblings. |
| 20:33.15 | dataw0lf | as wireless coverage overlaps you're going to have to prepare for such an eventuality. |
| 20:34.04 | mindjuju | yeah, true... it's just that its such a cool idea, in a bad sort of way |
| 20:39.56 | orsonj | heh, just read it. although you have to take into account not all routers are equally "hackable" (besides different encryption) |
| 20:39.58 | timinator | What types of things could an ifection like that do to a router? Change the DNS routing? anything else? |
| 20:40.40 | mindjuju | how about change the password to let them log on |
| 20:40.46 | mindjuju | and access your comps |
| 20:40.55 | orsonj | modify traffic? mitm attack? |
| 20:41.42 | timinator | could it plant a virus that'd be installed on a comp as it connects |
| 20:41.47 | orsonj | create a mesh network that is outside the control of ISPs |
| 20:42.06 | mindjuju | the OS would have to be vulnerable to the virus |
| 20:42.17 | mindjuju | though if it were, i would think it possible |
| 20:42.52 | dataw0lf | you could do a variety of things |
| 20:43.08 | dataw0lf | most likely they'd just botnet -- maybe with something ingenious like packet mangling. |
| 20:43.41 | mindjuju | it's an awesome idea, that's why i wished they'd have kept it to themselves |
| 20:43.41 | timinator | DNS mapping changes could make some big money real quick |
| 20:44.06 | mindjuju | yeah true that www.bankofamerica.com --> 81.xxx.xxx.xxx |
| 20:44.28 | timinator | and if you do isolate the traffic in a region from the ISP, you could theoretically do it undetected, right? |
| 20:44.41 | timinator | exactly |
| 20:44.58 | timinator | paypall.com -> 81.xxx.xxx.xxx |
| 20:45.07 | mindjuju | yup |
| 20:45.15 | timinator | just grab a dozen URLs and route them to another server |
| 20:45.27 | Lone_Wanderer | better yet, a proxy |
| 20:45.29 | timinator | *strategic URLs |
| 20:45.35 | Lone_Wanderer | that does nothing but record traffic |
| 20:45.40 | timinator | there ya go |
| 20:45.51 | Lone_Wanderer | especially for paypal |
| 20:46.01 | timinator | won't have to create duplicate websites then |
| 20:47.24 | Lone_Wanderer | It'd be kind of cool if the entire internet could be run across wireless routers |
| 20:47.26 | orsonj | just silently remove ssl and most people wouldn't notice |
| 20:47.37 | Lone_Wanderer | well, not the entire 'net, but large portions of it |
| 20:47.53 | Lone_Wanderer | wireless, privately owned routers even |
| 20:47.54 | orsonj | get enough wifi and it becomes the new ham radio |
| 20:48.05 | timinator | have the proxy analyze the traffic, connect to all banks that are used, transfer all funds to account in Caymans |
| 20:48.39 | timinator | run it for a few hours and retire |
| 20:49.01 | brasto | I get those mysql training invitations each month or so. |
| 20:49.06 | timinator | run it for a few days and start your own country |
| 20:49.13 | brasto | they are way, way out of my price range. |
| 20:49.13 | timinator | :) |
| 20:49.33 | orsonj | run it for a month and buy google |
| 20:49.34 | brasto | for that I could take a full semester of courses at BYU, even paying the graduate rate... |
| 20:50.19 | timinator | dataw0lf: Secretary of Defense |
| 20:50.46 | dataw0lf | zounds! |
| 20:51.00 | dataw0lf | alright, gentlemen, we're going to invade Brazil and take all their women. |
| 20:51.01 | timinator | thebigdog as Sparky, the Presidents dog |
| 20:51.03 | dataw0lf | 1, 2, 3 Go! |
| 20:51.07 | timinator | the "first" dog |
| 20:51.28 | timinator | LOL |
| 20:52.27 | timinator | and renames it googol |
| 20:52.39 | timinator | :) |
| 20:52.57 | Lone_Wanderer | The chick whose great grandfather invented the word "googol" wants Google to pay her royalties for their name. |
| 20:54.04 | timinator | LOL |
| 20:54.07 | timinator | didn't know that |
| 20:54.14 | orsonj | "After we found out the tubes were getting clogged, we modified the west nile virus to control the pidgins that run the wireless networks. And that, is how we took over the world." |
| 20:56.59 | Lone_Wanderer | parasites and viruses can cause changes in an animal's behavior |
| 20:57.11 | Lone_Wanderer | i.e. making rats like the smell of cats and not be afraid of them |
| 20:57.33 | mgeary | ~ping fungus |
| 20:57.34 | jbot | pong fungus |
| 20:57.45 | Lone_Wanderer | If they can do that, why couldn't they make you more likely to vote Republican? |
| 20:58.51 | dataw0lf | there's a difference between virii and demons Lone_Wanderer. |
| 20:58.57 | orsonj | The secret service issues all its operatives a special perfume... |
| 20:59.01 | dataw0lf | tendency to vote Republican is one case. |
| 21:03.01 | *** join/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=David_Bo@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 21:03.01 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o Utah_Dave] by ChanServ |
| 21:14.37 | _psychic_ | it was mostly positive |
| 21:14.43 | _psychic_ | except for the french kiss comment |
| 21:14.54 | SunSparc | I have not watched it all yet |
| 21:14.57 | _psychic_ | and the part where he held Ron personally responsible for people threatening him |
| 21:15.15 | _psychic_ | s'pretty good - RP gets to talk for once |
| 21:15.15 | SunSparc | :) |
| 21:15.33 | SunSparc | Beck is a funny guy |
| 21:16.56 | Lone_Wanderer | dataw0lf: I just think it'd make an interesting story. |
| 21:17.25 | Lone_Wanderer | Custom virii that infect people and subtly change their behaviors. |
| 21:20.06 | SunSparc | Lone_Wanderer: You write it, I will read it. |
| 21:20.20 | Lone_Wanderer | Good idea. |
| 21:20.22 | Lone_Wanderer | Or... |
| 21:20.36 | Lone_Wanderer | Perhaps *you* will write it... |
| 21:20.44 | SunSparc | lol |
| 21:21.14 | Lone_Wanderer | Feeling any literary urges, Mr. SunSparc? |
| 21:21.38 | SunSparc | I feel like I could write a whole collection of novels!!! |
| 21:22.47 | Lone_Wanderer | The bad guys would, of course, be an extremist environmental book. |
| 21:22.51 | Lone_Wanderer | group. |
| 21:32.53 | *** join/#uphpu influx^^ (n=influx@influx.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 21:33.43 | Lone_Wanderer | later all |
| 22:01.02 | *** join/#uphpu kingsol_ (n=kingsol@64.0.192.139) |
| 22:04.13 | *** part/#uphpu kingsol_ (n=kingsol@64.0.192.139) |
| 23:02.53 | *** join/#uphpu Utah_Dave2 (n=mis@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 23:03.08 | Utah_Dave2 | aah. This scsi raid is kicking my butt! |
| 23:05.15 | orsonj | so, are they kicking your butt one after another, or are they doing it all at once? |
| 23:05.24 | _psychic_ | RAID KB |
| 23:14.24 | *** part/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=David_Bo@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 23:20.43 | brasto | wps, wasn't a salary/wage range mandatory on that job posting form? Not that it's a big deal, but the latest job posting doesn't have a salary range. |
| 23:27.42 | wps | "accepting requirements" is one of the options in the drop menu |
| 23:30.16 | brasto | It looks like they didn't use 'accepting requirements' either. |
| 23:30.25 | *** join/#uphpu bradym (n=bradym@Qst4FC.quinstreet.com) |
| 23:30.25 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v bradym] by ChanServ |
| 23:30.38 | brasto | I wonder if Gregg Rosann was able to post without using the web form... |
| 23:30.54 | wps | are you referring to this? |
| 23:30.54 | wps | http://uphpu.org/pipermail/uphpu-jobs/2008-January/000153.html |
| 23:31.11 | wps | is says "accepting requirements" under position |
| 23:31.26 | brasto | oh, yep, I'm referring to that one, I just didn't see the text |
| 23:31.46 | wps | the one that has me scratching my head is this one: http://uphpu.org/pipermail/uphpu-jobs/2007-December/000150.html |
| 23:32.10 | wps | …how that made it through without going through the form |
| 23:32.18 | wps | what is control + f ? |
| 23:32.40 | brasto | no, ctrl +f is for searching the page in tbird or firefox. |
| 23:32.45 | brasto | :) |
| 23:32.53 | wps | ah, yes… find |
| 23:33.07 | brasto | iow, I should have searched for 'accepting', and I'd have found it... |
| 23:34.46 | mgeary | hey, SimpleXML question for ya: |
| 23:35.13 | mgeary | it's barfing on an xml response i'm getting from Authorize.net, "parser warning : xmlns: URI AnetApi/xml/v1/schema/AnetApiSchema.xsd is not absolute" |
| 23:35.18 | mgeary | this is the xml header tag: |
| 23:35.28 | mgeary | <ErrorResponse xmlns:xsi="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema-instance" xmlns:xsd="http://www.w3.org/2001/XMLSchema" xmlns="AnetApi/xml/v1/schema/AnetApiSchema.xsd"> |
| 23:35.41 | _psychic_ | the URI isn't an absolute one |
| 23:35.46 | mgeary | well right |
| 23:35.54 | _psychic_ | does it use XML entities at all? |
| 23:36.59 | mgeary | http://dpaste.com/29807/ |
| 23:38.42 | mgeary | coming from Auth.net as it does, one would suppose that the response is somewhat acceptable |
| 23:39.07 | mgeary | i'm kind of reluctant to manually inject an absolute URL in the response xml |