| 00:01.15 | mindjuju | fair argument - i should prolly build something on top of XMPP but not as l337 as you |
| 00:02.07 | dataw0lf | fungus: dang it dude. keep those wiki pages to yourself. |
| 00:02.23 | *** part/#uphpu brasto (n=brasto@out.lnxi.com) |
| 00:02.41 | fungus | I thought it was wikipedia it wouldn't have any pics. |
| 00:02.48 | fungus | at least not graphic ones. |
| 00:02.57 | dataw0lf | fungus: no, I mean taking away from the fun with my shenanigans. |
| 00:03.18 | fungus | ahh, So you were referring to ... |
| 00:04.56 | dataw0lf | of course I was. |
| 00:05.12 | dataw0lf | note synic's shake of the head |
| 00:50.04 | *** join/#uphpu burnin (n=burnin@204-228-142-194.ip.xmission.com) |
| 00:50.11 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v burnin] by ChanServ |
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| 01:05.27 | *** part/#uphpu mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 01:12.09 | herlo | is anyone else planning on going to SCALE? |
| 02:09.01 | herlo | mindjuju: ping |
| 02:29.06 | *** join/#uphpu mgeary (n=mgeary@72.8.120.115) |
| 02:29.06 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v mgeary] by ChanServ |
| 02:29.13 | mgeary | oy |
| 02:29.15 | mgeary | durnit... |
| 02:29.17 | *** part/#uphpu mgeary (n=mgeary@72.8.120.115) |
| 02:29.20 | *** join/#uphpu mgeary (n=mgeary@72.8.120.115) |
| 02:29.20 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v mgeary] by ChanServ |
| 02:29.25 | mgeary | ? |
| 02:29.27 | mgeary | better |
| 02:30.46 | mgeary | anyone around? |
| 02:33.37 | herlo | mgeary: here |
| 02:33.54 | herlo | sure, go and leave! |
| 02:34.00 | herlo | :^) |
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| 03:41.02 | mgeary | anyone around now, perchance? |
| 03:54.23 | jnbek_ | i kinda am |
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| 08:44.22 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+oo macnewbold mindjuju] by irc.freenode.net |
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| 14:42.46 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o Utah_Dave] by ChanServ |
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| 15:36.12 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o thebigdog] by ChanServ |
| 15:43.51 | mindjuju | morning all |
| 15:44.03 | mindjuju | ~APB herlo |
| 15:44.04 | jbot | ACTION calls Tim to stake out herlo |
| 15:49.20 | *** join/#uphpu timinator (n=timinato@c-67-171-118-199.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 15:49.20 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v timinator] by ChanServ |
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| 16:02.30 | timinator | morning all |
| 16:04.39 | mindjuju | morning yo |
| 16:07.27 | herlo | mindjuju: pong |
| 16:07.40 | *** join/#uphpu mikesmullin (i=user@63.76.119.176) |
| 16:09.06 | *** join/#uphpu fungus (n=olsonl@2001:5c0:8fff:fffe:0:0:0:1647) |
| 16:09.06 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o fungus] by ChanServ |
| 16:15.43 | *** join/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 16:15.43 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o Utah_Dave] by ChanServ |
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| 16:16.17 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v mgeary] by ChanServ |
| 16:27.14 | Utah_Dave | ~lart mindjuju |
| 16:27.14 | jbot | takes a big bite out of mindjuju's jugular vein |
| 16:30.08 | herlo | Utah_Dave: thanks |
| 16:47.09 | *** join/#uphpu nAmir (i=Aviv@gateway/tor/x-e5c24b335ab3b508) |
| 16:52.47 | thebigdog | ls |
| 16:52.59 | thebigdog | everyone is gone |
| 16:57.11 | Utah_Dave | find *.thebigdog ./ |
| 16:57.42 | thebigdog | -- 1 dog found |
| 17:03.10 | wps | why is Microsoft abbreviated as MS? |
| 17:03.14 | wps | shouldn't it just be M? |
| 17:07.39 | mgeary | well, they used to be MicroSoft |
| 17:07.46 | mgeary | that may be why |
| 17:08.03 | wps | oh? I didn't know that |
| 17:08.19 | PoeticIntensity | they should be abbreviated "PU". |
| 17:10.18 | mgeary | wps: i could be wrong, but i believe that is the case |
| 17:10.29 | mgeary | wikipedia has no reference to that |
| 17:10.44 | mgeary | but i seem to recall the old 5.25" MicroSoft Works disks i had |
| 17:11.48 | wps | hmm… no capped S here: |
| 17:11.48 | wps | http://www.i-lo.tarnow.pl/edu/inf/hist/gui/pages/win101.htm |
| 17:11.49 | dataw0lf | Nah. |
| 17:11.55 | dataw0lf | Micro-soft to Microsoft |
| 17:12.06 | dataw0lf | and Micro-soft was never trademarked nor official. |
| 17:12.39 | PoeticIntensity | what's up, dataw0lf ? Haven't seen ya in a while... |
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| 17:13.38 | dataw0lf | I think Allen and Gates formed a partnership at MITS called "Micro-soft", but when they registered the name, they dropped the hyphen. |
| 17:13.44 | dataw0lf | PoeticIntensity: busy. |
| 17:13.52 | PoeticIntensity | I see. |
| 17:19.29 | *** join/#uphpu cycokilr (n=cycokilr@216.112.116.2.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 17:20.30 | cycokilr | i love that.. |
| 17:37.02 | timinator | how are those entry messages programmed? |
| 17:37.15 | thebigdog | easily |
| 17:37.41 | timinator | .|.. |
| 17:38.40 | thebigdog | mindjuju, you there |
| 17:39.25 | dataw0lf | timinator: use "onjoin" |
| 17:39.48 | timinator | TY DW |
| 17:40.22 | dataw0lf | np |
| 17:42.21 | thebigdog | ~wake mindjuju |
| 17:42.21 | jbot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on mindjuju and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" |
| 17:42.52 | timinator | something like: jbot: onjoin is (Hide your daughters!!|Captian on the bridge!!) |
| 17:43.18 | dataw0lf | !onjoin timinator Captain on the bridge!!! |
| 17:43.33 | timinator | nice |
| 17:43.44 | timinator | jbot: !onjoin timinator Captain on the bridge!!! |
| 17:43.59 | dataw0lf | drop the ! |
| 17:44.10 | timinator | jbot: onjoin timinator Captain on the bridge!!! |
| 17:44.10 | jbot | timinator: ok |
| 17:44.13 | *** part/#uphpu timinator (n=timinato@c-67-171-118-199.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 17:44.17 | *** join/#uphpu timinator (n=timinato@c-67-171-118-199.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 17:44.17 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v timinator] by ChanServ |
| 17:44.22 | timinator | NICE |
| 17:44.26 | dataw0lf | :) |
| 17:44.34 | timinator | TY dataw0lf |
| 17:44.45 | timinator | ~flip thebigdog |
| 17:44.46 | jbot | ACTION gives thebigdog the .|.. ..|. |
| 17:44.54 | thebigdog | well ty timinator |
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| 17:51.28 | thebigdog | oh mindjuju where are you? |
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| 18:08.44 | unum | so from my conversation with thebigdog yesterday I gather that if i'm going to have store information that requires a few different columns I should create multiple tables rather than having null fields |
| 18:09.05 | thebigdog | nulls are ok |
| 18:09.12 | thebigdog | if you have default vals they are good too |
| 18:09.15 | thebigdog | depends though |
| 18:09.23 | unum | these tables are going to be huge |
| 18:09.40 | thebigdog | granted i dont ever want to use nulls unless i have too |
| 18:09.49 | thebigdog | there is no reason in my opinion |
| 18:10.41 | thebigdog | making sure you are normalized is a great thing |
| 18:11.17 | unum | I have several fields that these rows will share |
| 18:11.22 | unum | and a few that they won't |
| 18:11.52 | thebigdog | if you can normalize and break it out then that will be a better approach |
| 18:12.17 | thebigdog | but if you need you can set default values instead of nulls |
| 18:12.26 | thebigdog | which might be a viable option too |
| 18:12.44 | unum | however when you are adding 200,000 rows a day |
| 18:13.05 | unum | the nuls and default values add up |
| 18:13.13 | thebigdog | that column adds up |
| 18:13.17 | unum | and take a lot of disk space for something that is useless |
| 18:13.22 | thebigdog | yep |
| 18:13.50 | unum | I didn't realize null cost me in disk space |
| 18:13.50 | thebigdog | how you design your ddl is huge |
| 18:13.59 | thebigdog | the datatype does |
| 18:14.06 | unum | I guess I have to tell the it manager he was right |
| 18:14.28 | thebigdog | so make sure you are using the right datatypes too |
| 18:14.44 | unum | I use int when ever I can |
| 18:14.51 | unum | varchar most of the time if I can't |
| 18:15.03 | unum | and text when I don't know of any limit on the length of text |
| 18:15.24 | thebigdog | imho everything should have a limit |
| 18:15.33 | thebigdog | then you can define size requirements |
| 18:15.42 | thebigdog | forcast disk needs |
| 18:16.29 | thebigdog | but in the example of int |
| 18:16.35 | thebigdog | integer is 4bytes |
| 18:16.48 | thebigdog | if you need something smaller you have smallint |
| 18:16.51 | thebigdog | that is 2bytes |
| 18:16.57 | thebigdog | but the range is different |
| 18:17.06 | thebigdog | cause you are dealing with 2bytes vs. 4bytes |
| 18:17.22 | thebigdog | but if you dont need anything greater than 32767 you are good |
| 18:17.32 | thebigdog | or less than -32768 |
| 18:17.59 | timinator | I've heard that a text field is smaller than a varchar field that contains the same value.... because the varchar needs another byte or 2 to specify the size |
| 18:18.04 | timinator | is that true |
| 18:18.25 | unum | I should probably being using small int in some cases |
| 18:18.39 | unum | I have one case where the number can never be greater than 9999 |
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| 18:19.02 | orsonj | timinator: i guess it would only do that if the value filled up the entire space of the text field. |
| 18:19.12 | thebigdog | that would be a good candidate for smallint |
| 18:19.27 | thebigdog | text fields are unlimited in pgsql |
| 18:19.38 | thebigdog | timinator, if you are talking mysql im not sure |
| 18:19.45 | timinator | y, mysql |
| 18:19.55 | thebigdog | unum is using pgsql i believe |
| 18:20.32 | timinator | thebigdog: is there a cheat sheet somewhere that gives all the datatype information? |
| 18:20.41 | thebigdog | for pgsql? |
| 18:20.49 | timinator | either/both |
| 18:20.58 | unum | I came to the meeting you did on databases last winter, but forgot it all |
| 18:21.02 | thebigdog | yes |
| 18:21.06 | unum | I still need to sign up for the new database group |
| 18:21.20 | thebigdog | timinator, http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.2/static/datatype.html |
| 18:21.36 | thebigdog | mysql should have one...but i dont have that bookmarked |
| 18:21.49 | timinator | np... I'll search... TY |
| 18:22.28 | unum | actually my company should just hirer a dba :) |
| 18:22.48 | thebigdog | yeah dba should be doing it if you dont feel up to the challenge |
| 18:23.37 | unum | our it department consists of a guy with a communications degree and me(who got kicked out of USU's cs program) |
| 18:23.57 | thebigdog | cool thing is pgsql is creating your own types |
| 18:24.02 | thebigdog | thats are awesome |
| 18:24.04 | unum | we have someone here with a 20 year old cs degree but she just writes qbasic programs and vedit macros |
| 18:24.47 | timinator | unum: where do you work? |
| 18:29.05 | orsonj | We had someone that retired this last year that turned in the same report every week. He just changed the colors on the charts to make it look different. |
| 18:34.08 | mgeary | so, i'll ask once before before diving in: anyone have much experience interfacing with Authorize.Net via their AIM interface? |
| 18:36.34 | dataw0lf | oh wow. Baby Grace's mother is pregnant again. |
| 18:36.37 | dataw0lf | Just to top things off. |
| 18:41.18 | Utah_Dave | mgeary, one of my clients just set up an appt with me to set that up for them. So I guess I'll be learning that soon! |
| 18:41.36 | mgeary | Utah_Dave: you & me both ;) |
| 18:53.49 | *** join/#uphpu jsmith_ (i=jsmith@nat/digium/x-c632f05f84fd06b1) |
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| 19:00.12 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v burnin] by ChanServ |
| 19:02.43 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v jsmith] by ChanServ |
| 19:27.38 | unum | timinator: venturedata |
| 19:28.25 | timinator | ah! where you work! |
| 19:28.29 | timinator | gotcha |
| 19:28.44 | timinator | forgot I had asked |
| 19:28.46 | timinator | LOL |
| 19:30.42 | unum | ya I had project come up and didn't see the question for a bit |
| 19:39.03 | timinator | :) |
| 19:43.21 | mindjuju | ~APB to all who pinged me |
| 19:43.21 | jbot | ACTION calls baby Lyssa to rough up to all who pinged me |
| 19:43.30 | mgeary | hey guys, SQL question: |
| 19:43.32 | mgeary | http://dpaste.com/26146/ |
| 19:43.43 | mindjuju | email or PM will get answered in order they arrived |
| 19:44.01 | mgeary | see how there are a bunch of redundant "new_state_id" entries there? help me think of a query that will delete all but the first |
| 19:45.33 | mgeary | but this is actually a simplistic scenario. Another scenario would be: http://dpaste.com/26148/ |
| 19:46.08 | mgeary | basically, i've got 2 states that are "terminal" states (3 and 4). Any new states that appear chronologically after one of these states needs to be found and deleted |
| 19:46.31 | herlo | mindjuju: you're fired! |
| 19:47.04 | mindjuju | whew! i'm fired, that means i get to take a longer lunch then |
| 19:49.02 | mindjuju | what up herlo, have like 2 minutes before got to get back |
| 19:50.47 | herlo | mindjuju: you're rehired |
| 19:50.51 | herlo | mindjuju: you pinged me |
| 19:50.52 | mindjuju | sweet! |
| 19:51.02 | mindjuju | ah, er |
| 19:51.03 | herlo | mindjuju: but I left you a bunch of messages in #utos |
| 19:51.11 | mindjuju | k, i'll pick them up from there |
| 19:51.21 | herlo | k, let me know what you can do tonight with it |
| 19:51.25 | mindjuju | wanted to ask you a quick question too, but i'll send it in around 6 |
| 19:51.31 | mindjuju | k |
| 19:51.39 | herlo | mindjuju: sounds good |
| 19:51.51 | mindjuju | cya ya'll gents, make it a good day. and somebody give thebigdog a bone, he's chewing on the furniture again |
| 19:52.27 | thebigdog | dude your leaving |
| 20:04.25 | *** part/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 20:16.47 | *** join/#uphpu cycokilr (n=cycokilr@216.112.116.2.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 20:23.31 | mgeary | ~yow |
| 20:33.04 | unum | does the db group have a channel |
| 20:40.55 | thebigdog | i think they do |
| 20:41.00 | thebigdog | cant remember for sure |
| 20:41.06 | thebigdog | but if you have db questions you can ask here too |
| 21:18.28 | thebigdog | ~love svn |
| 21:18.28 | jbot | If you love svn so much, why don't you marry it? (oooooh) |
| 21:18.58 | synic | ~love bzr |
| 21:18.59 | jbot | If you love bzr so much, why don't you marry it? (oooooh) |
| 21:19.07 | synic | oooooh! |
| 21:29.06 | thebigdog | you guys and your ratings |
| 21:29.17 | thebigdog | all i see is crap |
| 21:29.36 | synic | you and your crappy IRC client! |
| 21:29.43 | thebigdog | hehe |
| 21:30.03 | thebigdog | synic is your playing from itunes |
| 21:30.12 | synic | no, exaile |
| 21:30.19 | synic | of course |
| 21:30.25 | thebigdog | i wonder why it does that |
| 21:30.32 | thebigdog | i use xchat...it should be fine |
| 21:30.40 | thebigdog | i see it with itunes |
| 21:30.41 | synic | maybe I'm the only one that sees it correctly. |
| 21:30.50 | synic | maybe it's totally broken and I just don' tknow it |
| 21:31.05 | thebigdog | probably xchat |
| 21:31.14 | thebigdog | im sure everyone sees it but me |
| 21:34.46 | fungus | I use xchat-gnome and the ratings show just fine for me |
| 21:34.54 | macnewbold | they show in my gaim too |
| 21:35.14 | macnewbold | what's up with the 8 star ratings? |
| 21:35.18 | macnewbold | isn't 5 enough? |
| 21:35.28 | synic | of course not! |
| 21:35.49 | macnewbold | :) |
| 21:35.54 | synic | I can't recall why I chose 8, to be honest. |
| 21:36.28 | thebigdog | synic, do that again and let me see |
| 21:36.49 | fungus | Ratings should be 5, 10, or 100 |
| 21:37.18 | fungus | Or the special case of 4, for movies. |
| 21:37.46 | *** join/#uphpu thebigdog (n=bigdog@208.177.146.102.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 21:37.46 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o thebigdog] by ChanServ |
| 21:37.58 | synic | ✮✮✮✮✮✮✩✩ |
| 21:38.06 | thebigdog | nope |
| 21:38.11 | synic | d'oh. |
| 21:38.17 | thebigdog | oh well |
| 21:39.33 | thebigdog | let me try one more time |
| 21:39.55 | *** join/#uphpu thebigdog (n=bigdog@208.177.146.102.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 21:39.55 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o thebigdog] by ChanServ |
| 21:40.41 | synic | ✮✮✮✮✮✮✩✩ |
| 21:40.47 | thebigdog | hehe |
| 21:40.51 | thebigdog | better i guess |
| 21:40.59 | thebigdog | i get boxes now |
| 21:41.03 | synic | hah |
| 21:41.19 | thebigdog | ill take the boxes |
| 21:41.21 | unum | what datatype should I use if I have the posibility of three different values |
| 21:41.37 | thebigdog | like what you mean? |
| 21:41.53 | thebigdog | like you want enum functionality |
| 21:42.15 | unum | I want to use as little space as possible |
| 21:42.48 | unum | I can store the numbers 1 2 3 and use a small int |
| 21:42.49 | thebigdog | what values are they |
| 21:42.55 | thebigdog | yeah |
| 21:43.06 | unum | actually they are 0 1 3 |
| 21:43.08 | thebigdog | you can add a constraint to support the 1 2 3 |
| 21:43.09 | unum | I mean 0 1 2 |
| 21:43.13 | unum | ya |
| 21:43.30 | thebigdog | smallint |
| 21:43.40 | thebigdog | then a constraint to only allow those values |
| 21:44.59 | fungus | IIRC the enum type only stores the index of the value in the table itself, hence using very little storage |
| 21:46.28 | thebigdog | so unum in your create table you would do this |
| 21:46.28 | unum | ya but can't you just do that with an other table and a foreign key restraint |
| 21:46.41 | thebigdog | you could |
| 21:46.47 | unum | or is enum more effecient in some way |
| 21:46.59 | thebigdog | postgresql does not support enums yet |
| 21:47.05 | unum | ah |
| 21:47.11 | thebigdog | 8.3 will have them |
| 21:47.23 | *** join/#uphpu cole_joplin (n=cjoplin@gw.helius.com) |
| 21:49.40 | wps | I hate it when people that don't know you ask to join your LinkedIn network. Doing so would defeat the entire point. |
| 21:50.00 | thebigdog | but unum you could do it 2 ways |
| 21:50.06 | thebigdog | create a check on the table |
| 21:50.10 | thebigdog | or create fk ref |
| 21:51.39 | unum | I'll do the fk |
| 21:51.49 | unum | the values do correspond to an other meaning |
| 21:51.56 | thebigdog | that does require more space though |
| 21:52.02 | thebigdog | oh cool |
| 21:52.25 | unum | of course maybe some day the vendor will add a new meaning |
| 21:52.40 | unum | I guess I better consider that |
| 21:52.54 | thebigdog | but you can add additional values on the fly too |
| 21:52.55 | thebigdog | that is nice |
| 21:53.07 | thebigdog | if not then you need to modify your table constraint |
| 21:54.10 | unum | if I do the fk then I can just add the new value to the other table |
| 21:54.14 | unum | and it's all good |
| 21:54.24 | unum | of course I need to get the vendor to tell me the new value.... |
| 21:54.40 | unum | which means they'll have to figure out what it means... |
| 21:55.12 | thebigdog | yep |
| 21:55.23 | thebigdog | and you can add other items to the table too |
| 21:55.31 | thebigdog | if needed |
| 21:55.57 | thebigdog | im not big on checks if i can use fk i always go that way |
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| 22:51.55 | unum | what does vacuum mean |
| 22:52.09 | thebigdog | cleans up unused storage |
| 22:52.25 | thebigdog | similar to garbage collection |
| 22:52.31 | thebigdog | in terms of disk space |
| 22:52.33 | unum | so like if I deleted a bunch of rows |
| 22:53.10 | thebigdog | if you did that then the rows are physically there but the database has them set as deleted |
| 22:53.22 | thebigdog | vacuum would go in and recover that space |
| 22:53.45 | thebigdog | vacuuming is good |
| 22:53.58 | thebigdog | on tables that have updates and deletes |
| 22:56.11 | thebigdog | frank black is in the house!!!! |
| 22:58.36 | unum | I do a lot of updating |
| 22:58.40 | unum | not a lot of deleting |
| 22:58.54 | thebigdog | you need to vacuum |
| 22:59.55 | thebigdog | you need to do full |
| 23:00.02 | thebigdog | and you need to do analyze as well |
| 23:00.23 | thebigdog | that helps with the stats so the query planner works effiecient |
| 23:02.02 | thebigdog | and sometimes you want to make sure you do some reindexing |
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| 23:46.31 | wps | whoa |
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| 23:56.13 | timinator | LOL |