| 00:01.50 | PoeticIntensity | http://thejonesconnection.org/index.php |
| 00:01.54 | PoeticIntensity | awwww yeah, baby! |
| 00:07.54 | thebigdog | what the... |
| 00:08.01 | thebigdog | what url is that PoeticIntensity |
| 00:08.14 | *** part/#uphpu pelaofeliz (n=PelaoFel@67.108.236.230) |
| 00:08.29 | PoeticIntensity | hehe... |
| 00:08.35 | PoeticIntensity | that's my wicked-sick application I just built! |
| 00:08.41 | PoeticIntensity | it's gonna take out google, man!!! |
| 00:15.42 | JacobKerr | LOL |
| 00:17.16 | thebigdog | PoeticIntensity, you have smokin' aces man |
| 00:17.26 | PoeticIntensity | awwwwwwwwwwwwwww yeah!!! |
| 00:17.40 | thebigcat | take that, thebigdog !!! |
| 00:17.53 | thebigdog | ~smack thebigcat |
| 00:17.54 | jbot | ACTION smacks thebigcat upside the head. |
| 00:17.59 | thebigdog | ~lart thebigcat |
| 00:17.59 | jbot | slaps thebigcat upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh |
| 00:18.02 | thebigcat | ~lart thebigdog |
| 00:18.02 | jbot | slaps thebigdog around with a large trout |
| 00:18.09 | thebigcat | LOL |
| 00:18.18 | thebigdog | ~tunafart thebigcat |
| 00:18.19 | jbot | ACTION eats a week-old tuna sandwich with relish and walks over to thebigcat, leg raised, to let 'em rip. |
| 00:18.23 | JacobKerr | hehe Im about to hack it almost done.. |
| 00:18.26 | JacobKerr | MUAHAHAH.. |
| 00:18.32 | thebigcat | ~melvinoops thebigdog |
| 00:18.33 | jbot | ACTION reaches into thebigdog's pants to grab the waistband of thebigdog's Fruit of the Looms, but quickly withdraws it's hand, "ugh, hey everyone thebigdog is going commando today!" |
| 00:18.50 | thebigdog | ~melvin thebigcat |
| 00:18.51 | jbot | ACTION pulls thebigcat underwear up to the ceiling...and smiles |
| 00:19.04 | thebigcat | ~crackskulls thebigdog |
| 00:19.05 | jbot | ACTION grabs thebigdog and nAmir 's heads and slams them together knocking both unconscious. Jbot then turns to thebigcat to see who else needs a wallop. |
| 00:19.32 | mindjuju | felines get larger than canines this could be good |
| 00:19.51 | mindjuju | thebigcat, what specifically are you? |
| 00:19.59 | mindjuju | Liger? Lion? Tiger? |
| 00:20.06 | thebigcat | I'm a BIG CAT!!!! |
| 00:20.17 | thebigcat | dno't you reed eneliieeesh? |
| 00:20.44 | mindjuju | oh, your just a normal cat, but just large? |
| 00:20.46 | thebigdog | <-- is dogzilla |
| 00:20.53 | thebigcat | ROFL |
| 00:21.00 | mindjuju | is that like "meatball" the cat from Anger Management ? |
| 00:21.07 | macnewbold | thebigcat: so are you interested in applying your jonesconnection stuff as your test to come join us? |
| 00:21.17 | thebigcat | hehehehehe.... |
| 00:21.21 | thebigcat | nah.... I love where I work. |
| 00:21.37 | thebigcat | I'm actually just creating an app for my family's email / phone number db. |
| 00:21.46 | thebigcat | that's about 2 hours worth of work, so far.. |
| 00:22.03 | thebigcat | and yes.... anyone can enter anything, and the only verification I'm doing is on the phone number. |
| 00:22.08 | thebigdog | http://actionpublishing.com/childrens_books/scott_sutton_dinosaur_dog_tyrannosaurus_forest.html |
| 00:22.10 | mgeary | thebigcat: what do you use for CRUD? |
| 00:22.21 | thebigcat | hrrm....???? |
| 00:22.26 | thebigcat | mgeary, not sure... |
| 00:22.40 | thebigdog | queries |
| 00:22.41 | mgeary | for your database interaction |
| 00:22.41 | thebigdog | hehe |
| 00:22.49 | thebigcat | uhhhh..... |
| 00:22.58 | thebigcat | a custom-written class? |
| 00:23.19 | thebigdog | i use hibernate for thebigdog |
| 00:23.42 | mgeary | we should have a CRUD-handling shootout at a meeting |
| 00:24.02 | thebigcat | hehe... yeah. |
| 00:24.14 | thebigcat | is... CRUD an acronym? |
| 00:24.17 | thebigdog | yes |
| 00:24.22 | thebigcat | bah... |
| 00:24.22 | mgeary | Create Retreive Update Delete |
| 00:24.32 | thebigcat | oh... |
| 00:24.34 | mgeary | database interactions |
| 00:24.35 | thebigcat | I do that all in PHP. |
| 00:24.39 | mgeary | well duh ;) |
| 00:24.40 | thebigcat | nothing fancy at all. |
| 00:24.44 | thebigcat | I mean... |
| 00:24.45 | thebigcat | it sucks. |
| 00:24.52 | thebigdog | hehe...create read update delete |
| 00:24.56 | thebigcat | like... I know there's a better way to do it, but with this app, I don't care at all... |
| 00:25.01 | mgeary | but you don't write a separate page for INSERT versus UPDATE, surely |
| 00:25.05 | mgeary | for example |
| 00:25.08 | thebigcat | oh... |
| 00:25.09 | thebigcat | no] |
| 00:25.16 | thebigcat | it's not abstracted, either, though. |
| 00:25.24 | thebigcat | I just use a db object.. |
| 00:25.47 | thebigcat | and various if - elseif stuff to take care of the update / create / delete junk |
| 00:25.52 | thebigcat | with GET switches. |
| 00:26.24 | thebigdog | i wish php had more shared memory support like a vm |
| 00:26.36 | thebigcat | I wish your mom didn't have bad breath! |
| 00:26.36 | mgeary | why? |
| 00:26.39 | thebigcat | OOOOHHHHH!!!! |
| 00:26.42 | timinator | LOL |
| 00:26.51 | thebigdog | hehe funny thebigcat |
| 00:26.53 | *** kick/#uphpu [thebigcat!n=bigdog@208.177.146.102.ptr.us.xo.net] by thebigdog (thebigdog) |
| 00:26.57 | thebigdog | even funnier |
| 00:27.00 | *** join/#uphpu thebigcat (n=jason@67.137.24.218) |
| 00:27.07 | timinator | who needs FaceBook when you have IRC?!?! |
| 00:27.09 | thebigcat | much love, thebigdog... |
| 00:27.19 | thebigdog | mgeary, so you can have db objects in memory instead of quering them |
| 00:27.29 | mgeary | ah |
| 00:27.33 | thebigdog | thebigcat got some face |
| 00:27.39 | mgeary | that would be interesting |
| 00:27.57 | thebigcat | brewing up some evilness for thebigdog. |
| 00:28.07 | thebigdog | hehe |
| 00:28.19 | thebigdog | ~pee thebigcat |
| 00:28.20 | jbot | ACTION unzips his pants and tinkles on the head of thebigcat |
| 00:28.24 | thebigdog | hehe |
| 00:28.31 | thebigdog | bad kitty |
| 00:28.32 | thebigcat | ~flingpoo thebigdog |
| 00:28.40 | thebigcat | ~monkey thebigdog |
| 00:28.40 | jbot | ACTION flings poo at thebigdog |
| 00:28.43 | thebigcat | there we go. |
| 00:28.46 | thebigdog | hehe |
| 00:28.50 | thebigdog | ~crap thebigcat |
| 00:28.59 | thebigcat | ~whalecrap thebigdog |
| 00:29.02 | thebigdog | ~whip thebigcat |
| 00:29.02 | jbot | ACTION takes thebigcat outside to be thoroughly whipped by thebigdog |
| 00:29.11 | thebigcat | oooh man.... |
| 00:29.12 | thebigdog | ~whaleslap thebigcat |
| 00:29.13 | jbot | ACTION beats thebigcat upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 00:29.14 | thebigcat | too much laughing. |
| 00:29.22 | thebigdog | ~lart thebigdog |
| 00:29.22 | jbot | readies the nuke launcher and fires some rounds at thebigdog |
| 00:29.30 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v PoeticIntensity] by ChanServ |
| 00:29.31 | thebigdog | hehe you got me |
| 00:29.40 | PoeticIntensity | WOOT! |
| 00:29.45 | JacobKerr | Hey using a get query in PHP is very unsafe right? |
| 00:29.46 | PoeticIntensity | hear hear for auto-completion! |
| 00:29.54 | thebigdog | that was good |
| 00:29.54 | JacobKerr | When dealing with a db.. |
| 00:29.57 | thebigdog | ^5 PoeticIntensity |
| 00:30.03 | synic | JacobKerr: no |
| 00:30.04 | thebigdog | JacobKerr, depends |
| 00:30.05 | PoeticIntensity | ^5 thebigdog |
| 00:30.05 | mgeary | JacobKerr: that's a vague question |
| 00:30.12 | PoeticIntensity | JacobKerr, *verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry* insecure... |
| 00:30.14 | thebigdog | very vague |
| 00:30.18 | JacobKerr | Cool.. |
| 00:30.22 | JacobKerr | LOL |
| 00:30.33 | PoeticIntensity | heh... I use GET all the time. |
| 00:30.42 | JacobKerr | I just emptyed Jason DB and filled it with porn.. |
| 00:30.44 | PoeticIntensity | there's nothing insecure about it if ya do your verification right. |
| 00:30.46 | JacobKerr | J/K LOL.. |
| 00:30.53 | thebigdog | if you validate user input you will be good |
| 00:31.09 | PoeticIntensity | ~woot validation |
| 00:31.14 | PoeticIntensity | buh! |
| 00:31.21 | PoeticIntensity | ~congratulate validation |
| 00:31.22 | jbot | ACTION congratulates validation on being a new owner of a $500 brick. |
| 00:32.05 | mgeary | JacobKerr: were you perhaps intending to comment on the thinking that if one is *changing* data, one should use a POST, but if one is *retrieving* data, one should use GET? |
| 00:32.14 | mgeary | 'cause i'm on board with that, generally speaking |
| 00:32.20 | mgeary | but GET isn't any less secure than POST |
| 00:32.24 | beandog | one does not dar disagree with mgeary |
| 00:32.26 | beandog | dare |
| 00:33.02 | JacobKerr | no for changing and recieving it should all be validated not matter what becuase you can easily change POST data via a browser.. |
| 00:33.27 | JacobKerr | just escape not matter what right.. |
| 00:33.33 | thebigdog | you can change anything and everything sent to the server |
| 00:33.34 | PoeticIntensity | validate *everything* |
| 00:33.49 | JacobKerr | yup yup... |
| 00:34.07 | PoeticIntensity | I wish dataw0lf were on.... |
| 00:34.07 | thebigdog | js validation will not cut it |
| 00:34.10 | mindjuju | course, fungus has an interesting idea on validation, though i haven't put it into practice |
| 00:34.11 | PoeticIntensity | he's the security guru. |
| 00:34.18 | mgeary | mindjuju: what's that? |
| 00:34.18 | mindjuju | yar, js no good when it comes to validation |
| 00:34.30 | mindjuju | what's what? validates validates? |
| 00:34.37 | PoeticIntensity | well... it has its place, but it's definitely not good enough for security's sake. |
| 00:34.37 | mgeary | fungus' idea |
| 00:34.39 | JacobKerr | yeah you need to do somethign like mysql_escape_query.. |
| 00:34.41 | thebigdog | now you can do some validation for submit purposes and users |
| 00:34.47 | JacobKerr | there's a function kinda like that.. |
| 00:34.47 | mindjuju | meh, it was a take on Thoreau, though not funny enough |
| 00:34.54 | mgeary | JacobKerr: mysql_real_escape_string |
| 00:34.55 | mindjuju | so i let it die |
| 00:35.01 | JacobKerr | yeah yeah that's it.. |
| 00:35.04 | mgeary | mindjuju: ah |
| 00:35.18 | PoeticIntensity | or pg_escape_string, if you're using a *real* database... |
| 00:35.22 | beandog | heh |
| 00:35.34 | thebigdog | regex is great for validation |
| 00:35.35 | mindjuju | oh, on fungus, uh, err.. well, fungus had this idea that he should really speak to, but he was suggeting that you shouldn't validate what is naughty, but validate and accept what is nice |
| 00:36.00 | fungus | mindjuju: right. Take the approach you use on firewalls. |
| 00:36.07 | PoeticIntensity | mgeary is a super-dooper-program-pooper. |
| 00:36.09 | fungus | block all except for what is known good |
| 00:36.25 | PoeticIntensity | so... a white-list... |
| 00:36.35 | fungus | preg_replace is handy for stripping non-good stuff |
| 00:36.56 | fungus | or use preg_match to match the input against a regex |
| 00:37.04 | mgeary | can only do that in limited cases |
| 00:37.07 | JacobKerr | mysql_real_escape_string($query); |
| 00:37.11 | thebigdog | that is what i like to do |
| 00:37.11 | JacobKerr | right? |
| 00:37.17 | thebigdog | if all is good then move forward |
| 00:37.21 | PoeticIntensity | JacobKerr, you've gotta put another param in there. |
| 00:37.34 | PoeticIntensity | I think it's the charset... |
| 00:37.34 | mindjuju | it's a hawt idea, i just need to think about it and then implement it |
| 00:37.36 | PoeticIntensity | can't remember. |
| 00:37.46 | fungus | the string escaping comes after validation. Escaping isn't validation, it is data protection. |
| 00:37.47 | mindjuju | sure beats the heck out of building a naughty list |
| 00:37.52 | mgeary | JacobKerr: yeah, but you also need to make sure you're single-quoting your values, to avoid injection |
| 00:38.14 | JacobKerr | oh... I c. |
| 00:38.20 | beandog | righ |
| 00:38.21 | thebigdog | i take the road in validation to validate until i get something naughty...then return back to user with erorr |
| 00:38.28 | beandog | if you do it just right, then none of your queries will ever fail. |
| 00:38.31 | PoeticIntensity | mgeary, I think mysql_escape_string does that for ya. |
| 00:38.37 | mgeary | i use mysql_real_escape_string on the *values*, not the entire query |
| 00:38.40 | JacobKerr | PHP.net shows one param.. |
| 00:38.43 | mgeary | PoeticIntensity: ^^ |
| 00:38.58 | PoeticIntensity | ah... |
| 00:39.04 | PoeticIntensity | yeah.. that's what I was thinkin'. |
| 00:39.40 | timinator | gotta run guys.... later |
| 00:39.54 | PoeticIntensity | JacobKerr, you're right. |
| 00:40.11 | mindjuju | mgeary, brothers in arms is good, but Telegraph road is much better |
| 00:40.18 | mgeary | ~boggle mindjuju |
| 00:40.19 | jbot | ACTION stares in flabbergasted astonishment at mindjuju |
| 00:40.22 | JacobKerr | Yeah maybe I will just start using that on just the value and not the whole query since that is what is shown on PHP.net. Does it really mater though? |
| 00:40.23 | PoeticIntensity | ah.... I love Dire Straights. |
| 00:40.49 | PoeticIntensity | JacobKerr, yes. |
| 00:40.55 | mindjuju | whaaaaaaaa????? |
| 00:41.10 | PoeticIntensity | I've only ever used the escape stuff with the values... |
| 00:41.15 | mindjuju | no telegraph road, the single best song from Dire Straits |
| 00:41.22 | PoeticIntensity | using it on the whole query doesn't allow for the function to do what it was intended to. |
| 00:41.30 | JacobKerr | K. |
| 00:41.31 | synic | ack |
| 00:41.38 | mindjuju | what's itunes gifts? can you send somebody a song like paypal? |
| 00:41.43 | JacobKerr | That's good to know LOL. |
| 00:41.47 | PoeticIntensity | sure is. |
| 00:41.48 | mgeary | mindjuju: yep |
| 00:41.48 | mindjuju | sorry bout that synic, i didn't want to be boggled and sent it your way |
| 00:41.58 | synic | mindjuju: can't talk. Boggling. |
| 00:42.14 | mindjuju | like tron, i took out my frisbee and sent mgeary's frisbee your way |
| 00:42.31 | mindjuju | it was a beauty block and redirect |
| 00:42.40 | mindjuju | made sound effects and everything |
| 00:42.47 | PoeticIntensity | bah... |
| 00:43.01 | herlo | mindjuju: ping |
| 00:43.20 | synic | if I have to be involved in this, I guess I'd better randomly lart these guys: |
| 00:43.22 | synic | ~lart tierra |
| 00:43.22 | jbot | puts tierra into a headlock and administers a mighty noogie, rubbing half of tierra's hair of |
| 00:43.24 | synic | ~lart eco |
| 00:43.24 | jbot | explains, ever so gently, that if eco doesn't give the channel more information, they can't help |
| 00:44.03 | PoeticIntensity | ~rlart |
| 00:44.04 | jbot | acting on orders from an unspecified client drags undertakingyou into court suing for $200 million |
| 00:44.24 | mindjuju | uh oh, it looks like a big no hold barred, wrestlin' match in the uphpu irc |
| 00:44.28 | mindjuju | ~rlart |
| 00:44.29 | jbot | dumps 42 tons of dirt, manure, and fish heads on JacobKerr |
| 00:44.44 | JacobKerr | Thanx.. |
| 00:44.52 | mindjuju | ~pants sunsparc |
| 00:44.53 | jbot | ACTION steals sunsparc's pants |
| 00:45.08 | SunSparc | Hey! |
| 00:45.14 | PoeticIntensity | ~rlart |
| 00:45.15 | jbot | puts on a hockey mask and jumps out at cycokilr |
| 00:45.19 | macnewbold | ~seen UtahDave |
| 00:45.21 | jbot | utahdave <n=a11cfec7@astra.techwareit.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #uphpu, 76d 8h 6m 52s ago, saying: 'thebigdog, you gonna work with mac?'. |
| 00:45.27 | PoeticIntensity | ~monkey macnewbold |
| 00:45.27 | jbot | ACTION flings poo at macnewbold |
| 00:45.41 | JacobKerr | LOL |
| 00:45.41 | macnewbold | ~Seen Utah_Dave |
| 00:45.42 | jbot | utah_dave <n=boucha@70.103.10.66> was last seen on IRC in channel #uphpu, 2d 2h 58m 49s ago, saying: 'whoa. ChanServ left the room!'. |
| 00:46.17 | mindjuju | ~poo PoeticIntensity |
| 00:46.17 | jbot | ACTION summons a troop of flying monkeys to fling their poo at PoeticIntensity |
| 00:46.38 | PoeticIntensity | bah! |
| 00:46.52 | PoeticIntensity | ~lart mindjuju |
| 00:46.52 | jbot | whips out a hot clue gun and makes sure that mindjuju is stuck to the floor |
| 00:47.12 | PoeticIntensity | or type |
| 00:47.33 | mindjuju | ~dhit PoeticIntensity ! |
| 00:47.33 | jbot | ACTION appears right behind PoeticIntensity ! and slaps him in the back of the head |
| 00:47.37 | PoeticIntensity | ~stare mindjuju |
| 00:47.43 | PoeticIntensity | ~yow |
| 00:47.56 | mindjuju | ~bdhit PoeticIntensity |
| 00:47.56 | jbot | ACTION slaps the diviner's tin avalanche on PoeticIntensity |
| 00:47.56 | *** part/#uphpu cole_joplin (n=cjoplin@gw.helius.com) |
| 00:48.56 | eco | SHUTUP! |
| 00:49.24 | synic | bahaha. |
| 00:49.27 | synic | delayed response. |
| 00:50.02 | eco | I was busy reading Craigslist adult actress wanted entries. |
| 00:50.32 | mindjuju | anything hawt? |
| 00:50.52 | eco | Psh! Of course! |
| 00:50.54 | eco | http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/adg/476865124.html |
| 00:50.57 | eco | NSFW, I guess. |
| 00:52.03 | mindjuju | heh, whoops, lucky me, i'm outside the firewall. |
| 00:54.27 | tierra | mindjuju asked for it |
| 00:54.37 | *** join/#uphpu burnin (n=burnin@204-228-142-194.ip.xmission.com) |
| 00:55.26 | mindjuju | heh, too funny |
| 00:55.51 | mindjuju | well, lucky me, no pictures, that'd be harder to explain, but a little text, i'm just going to say got sent link in IRC |
| 00:59.50 | SunSparc | Night all! |
| 01:00.30 | mgeary | me too |
| 01:00.32 | *** part/#uphpu mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 01:01.50 | mindjuju | well, it was fun and rowdy while it lasted |
| 01:11.58 | macnewbold | ~lart mindjuju |
| 01:11.58 | jbot | steals mindjuju's mojo |
| 01:12.00 | macnewbold | ~rlart |
| 01:12.01 | jbot | pries xilch|w's back open with a screwdriver and flashes a new bootldr to xilch|w |
| 01:22.10 | mindjuju | sup macnewbold |
| 01:24.28 | beandog | its always fun and rowdy |
| 01:26.00 | mindjuju | :) |
| 01:26.08 | mindjuju | beandog, can you do me a favor |
| 01:26.29 | beandog | sure |
| 01:26.30 | beandog | whats up |
| 01:26.30 | mindjuju | can you go to uphpu.org and look for the presentation .mp3s on the front page and try to listen to them, they don't appear to work from that location |
| 01:26.43 | mindjuju | i think they mayhave gotten all banged up on transfer |
| 01:27.15 | beandog | sheesh that page sucks up my cpu |
| 01:27.17 | beandog | bad! |
| 01:27.41 | beandog | mindjuju, play them from the website or download them? |
| 01:28.18 | mindjuju | either |
| 01:28.37 | mindjuju | i know they are a little scratchy, i'll fix them as i have time, though the new ones will roll much better |
| 01:28.37 | beandog | worksforme |
| 01:28.41 | mindjuju | this is a work in progress |
| 01:28.44 | mindjuju | ok, it's just me then |
| 01:28.46 | mindjuju | that's good |
| 01:29.04 | mindjuju | i'll post to mailing list that the audio for the presents are live |
| 01:31.52 | JacobKerr | hey what's the best way to select only 10 rows from a db? |
| 01:32.14 | JacobKerr | so say I have a database full of searches and I want to select only the top 10... |
| 01:32.16 | mindjuju | which database? |
| 01:32.20 | JacobKerr | MySQL |
| 01:32.47 | mindjuju | order by |
| 01:32.51 | mindjuju | and limit |
| 01:33.07 | JacobKerr | oh.... Thanx man.. |
| 01:33.09 | mindjuju | order by to sequence the way you like, limit to cap the total return |
| 01:33.11 | mindjuju | :) |
| 01:33.15 | JacobKerr | I remember limit now. |
| 01:34.39 | JacobKerr | SELECT * FROM searchs orderby num_searches limit $top_number LOOK OK? |
| 01:35.40 | *** join/#uphpu wps (n=wps@208.53.47.251) |
| 01:35.40 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 01:36.49 | bradym | JacobKerr: order by is two words, not one |
| 01:36.55 | bradym | :) |
| 01:37.23 | JacobKerr | besides that does that look like a valid query? |
| 01:38.58 | bradym | yeah, assuming that's in php and $top_number is set |
| 01:39.08 | JacobKerr | Cool. |
| 01:39.37 | bradym | some people consider " SELECT * " to be bad, it's often better to list the columns you want |
| 01:40.17 | JacobKerr | K. |
| 01:40.33 | JacobKerr | Well I need them all in the case. |
| 01:40.56 | JacobKerr | this case* |
| 01:41.20 | bradym | sounds like select * is the way to go then |
| 01:43.20 | JacobKerr | I'm working on a custom application that saves all of the searches a user inputs into a search field on a web site and then displays by the ammount of results and the ammount of searches so you can easily see what content / services / products need to be added to the site :) |
| 01:43.31 | bradym | hey mindjuju, I downloaded the mp3 of tierra's presentation.. works great in winamp but windows media player doesn't like it.. just fyi |
| 01:43.52 | bradym | sounds cool |
| 01:45.13 | JacobKerr | yeah I am making the whole thing Object Oriented and easy to install so I can use it as link bait for the company I am working for... |
| 01:47.53 | bradym | cool |
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| 15:14.33 | brasto_away | ~dict league |
| 15:18.18 | mindjuju | morning gents |
| 15:18.42 | brasto_away | mornin' |
| 15:18.54 | pelaofeliz | howdy |
| 15:19.16 | cole_joplin | Anyone see the post about SOAP/PEar in the email? |
| 15:19.28 | mindjuju | haven't |
| 15:19.35 | mindjuju | is it here or in email |
| 15:19.38 | cole_joplin | I'm not going to respond |
| 15:19.50 | cole_joplin | but wow, what a horrible combination |
| 15:20.01 | cole_joplin | that's like bloat on your bloat |
| 15:20.37 | jsmith | Mmmmn... SOAP.... |
| 15:20.54 | cole_joplin | yes, the bloated XML |
| 15:21.04 | jsmith | Yes, it's bloated |
| 15:21.08 | jsmith | But it's also fairly nice |
| 15:21.11 | cole_joplin | because XML is just too darn OPEN |
| 15:21.21 | cole_joplin | and easy |
| 15:21.57 | cole_joplin | The only reason to use SOAP is you have to connect to a Windows server |
| 15:23.08 | mindjuju | yup, story of my life |
| 15:23.27 | mindjuju | had to use SOAP was connecting from a .net app to a win 2k3 server |
| 15:25.47 | mindjuju | k, gents. I'm off to catch up on sleep and watch Howard the Duck (one of the best movies of the 80's!) |
| 15:28.14 | brasto_away | ~sleep mindjuju |
| 15:28.15 | jbot | ACTION sends mindjuju to bed without supper |
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| 16:00.44 | timinator | morning all |
| 16:01.28 | pelaofeliz | howdy |
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| 16:05.55 | mgeary | gooooood morning |
| 16:07.13 | orsonj | yep |
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| 16:42.33 | wps | what's the easiest way to read a file in and to have each line as a node in an array? |
| 16:42.53 | mgeary | file() |
| 16:43.25 | wps | ah… yes… thank you |
| 16:43.27 | wps | forgot about file |
| 16:43.29 | wps | been a wile |
| 16:43.42 | wps | been using file_get_contents() for most everything lately |
| 16:43.45 | wps | which is usually what I want |
| 16:43.48 | mgeary | ah |
| 16:44.00 | mgeary | 'course, file() can be pretty memory intensive |
| 16:44.10 | mgeary | depending on your input |
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| 16:47.22 | PoeticIntensity | mornin' all. |
| 16:47.30 | influx^^ | mornin' |
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| 17:21.07 | *** join/#uphpu JacobKerr (n=JacobKer@72.25.165.83) |
| 17:21.44 | JacobKerr | Hey is mysql_pconnect() beter then mysql_connet()? It prob. all depends on the case right? |
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| 17:24.16 | wps | if my file isn't going to be that long, should I just use file_get_contents and then explode on the line breaks? |
| 17:24.59 | JacobKerr | why would one use sprintf() on there MySQL querry? |
| 17:26.36 | JacobKerr | LOL their * :) |
| 17:27.40 | jsmith | JacobKerr: To be able to format a string precisely directly from the MySQL query |
| 17:27.50 | jsmith | JacobKerr: (That being said, it's probably faster to do it in PHP) |
| 17:27.56 | JacobKerr | to avoid SQL injection right? |
| 17:28.05 | jsmith | Anybody see this month's article on stored procedures in MySQL? |
| 17:28.11 | jsmith | I couldn't believe how slow they are... |
| 17:28.59 | jsmith | JacobKerr: Or to be able to do things like: UPDATE mydata SET somecolumn = sprintf(':%S:',somecolumn); |
| 17:29.02 | pelaofeliz | jsmith: where's that article? |
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| 17:29.17 | jsmith | pelaofeliz: In the print version... I think it'll be online next month |
| 17:29.28 | jsmith | pelaofeliz: Sorry, Linux Journal |
| 17:29.29 | JacobKerr | is that beter then just sending each variable to mysql_real_escape_string()? |
| 17:29.42 | JacobKerr | Cool.. |
| 17:30.04 | pelaofeliz | jsmith: thanks |
| 17:33.20 | beandog | g'morning alls |
| 17:54.08 | JacobKerr | Here's an odd question but it's bugging me: SO the description for a while loop is it runs as long as whatever in the parameter is true so how does this work?? while ($info = mysql_fetch_array($subscriberinfo)){} |
| 17:56.59 | beandog | well, not necesarily true as in returns something positive |
| 17:57.07 | beandog | i.e., non-empty, non-null or non-existent |
| 17:57.16 | JacobKerr | I C.. |
| 17:57.17 | beandog | mysql_fetch_array pulls the first row from the resultset |
| 17:57.23 | beandog | and then moves the pointer to the next row |
| 17:57.32 | beandog | when its out of rows, theres nothing left to pull, so the loop breaks. |
| 17:57.41 | beandog | so, while $info == something ... do this |
| 17:57.59 | JacobKerr | Wow now if they just put that on anything about a while loop in PHP.net and other places that would be great. |
| 18:01.54 | wps | so, my build (which I don't have control over) does not support str_split() |
| 18:02.16 | wps | any recommendations on breaking each character of a string up into an array? |
| 18:02.35 | beandog | well |
| 18:02.37 | beandog | you could do strlen() |
| 18:02.40 | beandog | and then loop through it |
| 18:02.47 | beandog | its already in an array if you treat it as one. |
| 18:02.54 | beandog | $string = 'foo'; |
| 18:02.56 | beandog | echo $string[0]; |
| 18:02.58 | beandog | I think. |
| 18:03.04 | beandog | maybe Im thinking of python. |
| 18:03.05 | wps | that'd work |
| 18:03.13 | wps | it's $string{0} though |
| 18:03.16 | beandog | ah, okay |
| 18:03.39 | wps | this is the second function that I've had to build custom because it's not on my build :( |
| 18:03.48 | beandog | you on php4 or something? |
| 18:04.05 | wps | a very, very ugly and custom version of 4 |
| 18:04.16 | beandog | ooh I just found some halloween candy |
| 18:04.24 | beandog | custom version? |
| 18:04.26 | beandog | sounds nasty |
| 18:04.28 | wps | very |
| 18:04.32 | wps | ask jsmitih-away about it |
| 18:04.56 | wps | be strong |
| 18:06.14 | thebigdog | wps cant you rebuild and add what you need in |
| 18:06.21 | wps | nope |
| 18:06.27 | wps | can't touch it |
| 18:06.29 | beandog | what about php_compat |
| 18:06.31 | wps | no access or authority |
| 18:14.03 | macnewbold | ~rlart |
| 18:14.04 | jbot | squeezes thebigdog till thebigdog turns blue like papa smurf |
| 18:14.22 | thebigdog | ~smack macnewbold |
| 18:14.23 | jbot | ACTION smacks macnewbold upside the head. |
| 18:14.40 | jsmith | wps: Sorry, what were you telling somebody to ask me? |
| 18:14.43 | macnewbold | ~lart thebigdog |
| 18:14.43 | jbot | breaks out the Hoover and sucks up thebigdog |
| 18:14.50 | wps | just about how ugly the PHP build is here |
| 18:14.54 | macnewbold | I didn't choose you, thebigdog, jbot did |
| 18:14.56 | macnewbold | ~jbot |
| 18:14.57 | jbot | hmm... jbot is a hack!, or known to have only said one useful thing. a tool, or dating the fembots, or [TK]D-Fender's b*tch |
| 18:14.57 | thebigdog | ~whip macnewbold |
| 18:14.57 | jbot | ACTION takes macnewbold outside to be thoroughly whipped by thebigdog |
| 18:18.33 | wps | why would a PHP list be interested in a Ruby camp? |
| 18:18.40 | wps | thanks for the spam, Mr. Moore |
| 18:21.27 | dataw0lf | I thought UPHPU was generally gracious to other web development platforms |
| 18:21.37 | wps | :) |
| 18:21.50 | wps | I'm just teasing |
| 18:24.45 | dataw0lf | not that I really care about Ruby or anything either. |
| 18:39.56 | dataw0lf | I got two new pets yesterday :) |
| 18:41.15 | JacobKerr | can mysql_fetch_array() hold more then one row of data from the db? |
| 18:41.41 | dataw0lf | 'fetch_array' |
| 18:41.50 | JacobKerr | or can u use it on more then one row * |
| 18:42.11 | thebigdog | i retrieves 1 row at a time |
| 18:42.19 | thebigdog | it retrieves |
| 18:42.30 | dataw0lf | while(mysql_fetch_array()) |
| 18:42.44 | JacobKerr | oh I c.. |
| 18:42.47 | thebigdog | your result has all the rows in it |
| 18:42.58 | JacobKerr | but you can not do the same with fetch_asociat?? |
| 18:43.05 | thebigdog | the fetch_array means it grabs the row columns in an array |
| 18:43.22 | thebigdog | it is talking about the current row and how it is returned |
| 18:43.42 | thebigdog | "mysql_fetch_array ? Fetch a result row as an associative array, a numeric array, or both" |
| 18:44.18 | JacobKerr | K, I get how it works now. I just remember having a problem with it in the past.. |
| 18:44.36 | dataw0lf | thebigdog: I have two ferrets now :) |
| 18:44.48 | thebigdog | oh sweet |
| 18:44.53 | thebigdog | how do they behave? |
| 18:45.03 | dataw0lf | pretty great. |
| 18:45.14 | dataw0lf | Guido van Rossum is a 2 month old male ferret |
| 18:45.31 | dataw0lf | and Aldus Manutius the Great is a 4 month old male ferret, who's european and GIGANTIC |
| 18:45.50 | thebigdog | i keep trying to get my wife a de-scented skunk |
| 18:46.03 | dataw0lf | I <3 polecats |
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| 19:50.22 | mgeary | hey mindjuju |
| 19:54.58 | mgeary | ~lart mindjuju |
| 19:54.58 | jbot | drops a truckload of VAXen on mindjuju |
| 19:59.28 | influx^^ | ~rlart |
| 19:59.29 | jbot | does a little 'dpkg -P influx^^' action |
| 19:59.34 | influx^^ | uh... |
| 19:59.36 | influx^^ | what? |
| 20:00.16 | dataw0lf | dpkg -P is a purge |
| 20:00.23 | dataw0lf | so it's purging you. |
| 20:00.44 | mindjuju | jbot went rabid and bit it's sender |
| 20:00.44 | influx^^ | oh |
| 20:00.53 | mindjuju | ~APB mgeary |
| 20:00.54 | jbot | ACTION calls baby Lyssa to rough up mgeary |
| 20:01.12 | mgeary | eh? eh? :) |
| 20:01.25 | mgeary | 22 non-DRM songs for $11. can't beat that |
| 20:01.43 | mindjuju | cool, where at? |
| 20:01.45 | mgeary | iTunes |
| 20:02.29 | dataw0lf | I waaaaaaaaaant my, I waaaaaaaaaaaant my MTV |
| 20:02.47 | mgeary | and yes, Telegraph Road is a great song, though i'm not sure i can yet put it up against Brothers in Arms |
| 20:02.55 | mgeary | time will tell |
| 20:03.15 | mindjuju | is that the version where they freestyle like Freebird for like 5 minutes? |
| 20:03.43 | mgeary | it's 14 minutes long |
| 20:04.49 | mindjuju | ah yea, that's the goodin' |
| 20:05.01 | mindjuju | any song that has freestyle like that is top 10 in my book |
| 20:05.19 | mindjuju | like Chicago when they do that song, Beginnings, love that song |
| 20:05.23 | mindjuju | nearly the best song ever |
| 20:06.10 | mindjuju | it's awesome |
| 20:19.41 | mgeary | hey folks, anyone know of a one-liner way to check if ALL values in a linear array are a given value? In other words: |
| 20:20.23 | mgeary | array(1,1,1,1) would return true if run through this check with a parameter of 1 |
| 20:20.58 | mgeary | any sneaky ways that don't involve an iteration? |
| 20:21.30 | mgeary | i guess i could do an array_sum() |
| 20:21.53 | pelaofeliz | but then array(1,0,1,2) would match, right? |
| 20:22.10 | PoeticIntensity | gonna listen to the whole thing... |
| 20:22.13 | PoeticIntensity | awww yeah... |
| 20:22.52 | PoeticIntensity | can't think of a way to do that without iterating, mgeary . |
| 20:23.03 | mgeary | array_sum is the trick |
| 20:23.08 | PoeticIntensity | although I wouldn't be surprised if there was a way. |
| 20:23.09 | PoeticIntensity | :) |
| 20:23.10 | mgeary | kind of like a bitwise opration |
| 20:23.29 | mgeary | array_sum($array) == (somevalue * count($array)) |
| 20:23.37 | mgeary | where somevalue is the # to test for |
| 20:23.48 | mgeary | piece o' cake |
| 20:26.55 | dataw0lf | PoeticIntensity: exxxcellent song |
| 20:28.53 | PoeticIntensity | although I haven't got to that song yet... |
| 20:28.57 | PoeticIntensity | I'm listening to the whole album. |
| 20:29.10 | PoeticIntensity | currently listening to "Down to the waterline" |
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| 20:57.00 | mgeary | sweet! -- http://mashable.com/2007/11/12/2500-marvel-comics-come-online-today/ |
| 20:57.35 | mgeary | heh. marvel.com is DOSsed |
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| 21:12.38 | PoeticIntensity | heh... you're not kiddin', mgeary .... |
| 21:12.40 | PoeticIntensity | it's hosed. |
| 21:13.12 | mgeary | comic books for computer nerds are like heroin for addicts |
| 21:13.16 | mgeary | ;) |
| 21:13.30 | PoeticIntensity | although..... I have to admit, I never got into comic books... |
| 21:14.05 | mgeary | ~fernpee |
| 21:14.06 | jbot | ACTION whistles for BigDrink, the 180-lb Labrador Retriever with the 40-gallon bladder, to relieve himself on that fern over there in the corner... |
| 21:14.15 | PoeticIntensity | hehehe... |
| 21:15.14 | beandog | fernpee? |
| 21:15.17 | beandog | we have a fern plant? |
| 21:15.23 | PoeticIntensity | well duh! |
| 21:15.39 | beandog | poor fern. |
| 21:15.44 | PoeticIntensity | why? |
| 21:15.56 | PoeticIntensity | dog pee is a great fertilizer. |
| 21:17.24 | mgeary | actually, it's not |
| 21:17.28 | mgeary | it's too concentrated |
| 21:19.36 | beandog | can I go home now? |
| 21:19.56 | beandog | maybe Ill go to the park |
| 21:19.58 | beandog | ~weather |
| 21:20.50 | beandog | 52 outside |
| 21:22.22 | PoeticIntensity | tell that to my lawn, mgeary... :) |
| 21:22.38 | PoeticIntensity | my neighbor's dog does a fine job of making nice tall green patches... |
| 21:22.48 | PoeticIntensity | not sure about ferns, though. |
| 21:22.54 | mgeary | your lawn doesn't have circles of brown with nice growth at the edges of the circles? |
| 21:23.01 | PoeticIntensity | nope. |
| 21:23.04 | mgeary | maybe it's just MY dog that has concentrated pee |
| 21:23.11 | PoeticIntensity | 'tis possible... |
| 21:23.15 | PoeticIntensity | might depend on the type of grass, too. |
| 21:23.19 | mgeary | ~wiki cattledog pee |
| 21:23.21 | PoeticIntensity | my lawn is so freakin' thick... |
| 21:25.20 | macnewbold | dog urine, like chicken poop, has high levels of nitrogen, which can burn your lawn if they're kept in a concentrated area. If it rains or you water , and dilute it, you might be in good shape though. As it ages or gets composted, chicken poop can be great on your lawn or garden too. |
| 21:26.04 | unum | you need to give your dog more water |
| 21:27.41 | macnewbold | you can lead a dog to water, but you can't make him drink |
| 21:29.24 | unum | but if you only give your dog a little bit of water so he/she won't have to be let out so often he/she will have more concentrated urine |
| 21:29.56 | mgeary | our dog runs free in the yard |
| 21:30.02 | mgeary | and always has water |
| 21:30.31 | mgeary | though, our lawn in our new house doesn't exhibit the circles i mentioned, now that i think of it |
| 21:30.44 | mgeary | maybe the grass at our old place was less pee-tolerant |
| 21:31.26 | mgeary | remember this? |
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| 22:03.30 | thebigdog | wp |
| 22:11.43 | *** join/#uphpu JacobKerr (n=JacobKer@72.25.165.83) |
| 22:12.18 | JacobKerr | Hey guys check this out: http://www.theultimatehealthfood.net/shop/index.php?l=product_list&c=5 that is one of my clients shopping carts. Go ahead and put a single quote right before the 5 on the end of the query.. |
| 22:12.26 | JacobKerr | This is Sunshop 4.0! |
| 22:15.05 | mgeary | it's generally considered a bad idea to reveal aspects of your database schema to generic users |
| 22:16.48 | mgeary | of course, that's just one problem with the above site ;) |
| 22:16.58 | mgeary | s/site/script |
| 22:17.02 | mindjuju | mgeary, v true that |
| 22:17.19 | mindjuju | i'm PARANOID and rename everything when remotely showing it to my mother, let alone another tech |
| 22:17.35 | mindjuju | and by remote, i mean showing her like a couple of tables |
| 22:18.51 | JacobKerr | Yeah well I have to patch that cart right away |
| 22:19.05 | JacobKerr | plus that's a URL the gerneral public can see |
| 22:19.30 | PoeticIntensity | wow. |
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| 22:19.59 | mindjuju | gosh,that's a sad day. i'm doing some emergency coding for somebody in Canada, and they are paying me in Canadian dollars. The Canadian dollars are worth more than US so, i'm getting a little extra |
| 22:20.30 | JacobKerr | I know not long ago I could get almost double canadian for my american dollar |
| 22:22.15 | unum | the mortgage fall out has hurt the dollar really bad |
| 22:22.28 | mgeary | yes |
| 22:22.36 | mgeary | though it wasn't great before that either |
| 22:34.54 | JacobKerr | Yeah since out economy relies on debt. |
| 22:35.31 | JacobKerr | Money is generated on debt since banks are aloud to loan out 9 times the ammount of money they actualy have.. |
| 22:36.26 | PoeticIntensity | I wouldn't say our economy "relies" on debt.... |
| 22:36.40 | PoeticIntensity | although right now, it seems to be the most evident portion of our economy... |
| 22:37.00 | PoeticIntensity | anyone here listen to "Dave Ramsey" on AM radio? |
| 22:37.21 | mindjuju | PI, i'm doing better than i deserve |
| 22:37.28 | PoeticIntensity | LOL |
| 22:37.29 | PoeticIntensity | nice.... |
| 22:37.30 | timinator | I subscribe to his podcast |
| 22:37.36 | PoeticIntensity | lovin' it. |
| 22:38.11 | PoeticIntensity | heh.... I've learned a bit about the "30-year mortgage" as of late... totally off topic, so I won't go into details, but... |
| 22:38.26 | PoeticIntensity | it's definitely an interesting way to give banks all your money. :) |
| 22:38.34 | timinator | though I usually spend my listening time on the tech and techno podcasts. |
| 22:38.44 | PoeticIntensity | with good reason! |
| 22:38.46 | dataw0lf | I pay in cash. |
| 22:38.48 | PoeticIntensity | techno rocks... |
| 22:38.51 | dataw0lf | Screw mortgages. |
| 22:38.56 | timinator | techno++ |
| 22:38.56 | pelaofeliz | PoeticIntensity: so what's the alternative when buying a house? |
| 22:39.14 | mindjuju | like dataw0lf says, pay cash |
| 22:39.27 | fungus | dataw0lf: most people don't have that kind of cash |
| 22:39.33 | dataw0lf | most people need to learn to save. |
| 22:39.47 | PoeticIntensity | or at least get a low payment, long term loan and invest the difference... |
| 22:39.48 | mindjuju | talking about learning to save, I learned to save from the best |
| 22:40.11 | mindjuju | When I lived in China, man, those guys don't make a dime, they always save |
| 22:40.13 | fungus | But saving for 15-20 years to buy a house will lose money on rent. |
| 22:40.39 | dataw0lf | well I have been saving for about 7 years now and I'm about ready to buy my first living... occupancy... |
| 22:40.50 | PoeticIntensity | rock on, dataw0lf ! |
| 22:40.52 | mindjuju | ^5 dataw0lf |
| 22:40.56 | PoeticIntensity | aw yeah! |
| 22:41.03 | dataw0lf | it helps that I save in a european bank to minimize my ability to withdraw from it. |
| 22:41.10 | PoeticIntensity | heh.... I could do that too, if I were single and making what dataw0lf makes... ;-) |
| 22:41.14 | fungus | Cool, but the money you save in interest comes pretty close to the money wasted on rent int the mean time. |
| 22:41.43 | PoeticIntensity | heh... have you seen the interest you pay during the first 5 years of a 30 year mortage? |
| 22:41.45 | PoeticIntensity | fungus? |
| 22:41.50 | dataw0lf | yea, interest would knock rent out of the water. |
| 22:41.56 | PoeticIntensity | it's *much* more than what I was paying for rent. |
| 22:41.58 | dataw0lf | of any bank mortgage |
| 22:42.12 | PoeticIntensity | it's insane. |
| 22:42.19 | dataw0lf | very. |
| 22:42.50 | dataw0lf | I also got a bunch of money tied up in mutual funds, but that's my caribbean retirement fund |
| 22:42.51 | beandog | I hate the idea of buying a house someday |
| 22:43.13 | dataw0lf | well I'm not buying a house with my saved money :) that's why I said living occupancy. |
| 22:43.43 | PoeticIntensity | even if you *do* get a loan for a house, there are ways to make the payment lower, while saving / investing the difference... (only if you're good at investing, or know and trust someone else who is) |
| 22:44.10 | dataw0lf | investing long term with a well established mutual fund is pretty safe. |
| 22:44.15 | PoeticIntensity | paying off a 30-year mortage is ..... painful. |
| 22:44.21 | PoeticIntensity | and wasteful. |
| 22:44.23 | dataw0lf | I wouldn't go and squander your savings on playing the stock market, however. |
| 22:44.36 | PoeticIntensity | heh... like I said... *only* if you're good at investing. |
| 22:44.43 | beandog | PoeticIntensity, whys that |
| 22:44.46 | PoeticIntensity | or are paying someone with a well-documented track record. |
| 22:44.55 | beandog | the thought of having a 30 year loan scares me to death |
| 22:44.59 | beandog | its bad enough having car payments. |
| 22:45.10 | beandog | imo |
| 22:45.14 | dataw0lf | yup, don't pay car payments either. |
| 22:45.16 | PoeticIntensity | well.... to keep from getting into the details, once you make the payment to the loan, that money is *gone* |
| 22:45.28 | beandog | what do you mean |
| 22:45.30 | pelaofeliz | you're not taking into account real estate appreciation, either, into your house purchase |
| 22:45.41 | dataw0lf | or depreciation |
| 22:45.44 | thebigdog | hehe |
| 22:45.47 | pelaofeliz | of course |
| 22:45.51 | mindjuju | especially now |
| 22:45.58 | pelaofeliz | but if you're talking long term, real estate is about as good as it gets |
| 22:46.01 | dataw0lf | well, it's definitely a buyer's market right now. |
| 22:46.02 | PoeticIntensity | if you pay less (or interest only), then you can put the difference into an account which makes more money than the interest you would have paid on the mortgage. |
| 22:46.23 | dataw0lf | buy a yacht and become a pirate like me. |
| 22:46.28 | PoeticIntensity | arrrr. |
| 22:46.38 | dataw0lf | It's the only way to stave off global warming calamities and awful Kevin Costner movies. |
| 22:46.50 | pelaofeliz | ...and if you do it right, you can pay off your 30-year mortgage in 10-15 years, pay a fraction of the interest, come out way on top after taking into account appreciation |
| 22:47.04 | JacobKerr | Im having a hard time saving with a wife and 3 kids at 22 and only making 45k no benefits.. |
| 22:47.06 | PoeticIntensity | pelaofeliz - bingo. |
| 22:47.31 | PoeticIntensity | JacobKerr - do you own a home? |
| 22:47.40 | PoeticIntensity | er.... mortgage? |
| 22:47.43 | JacobKerr | but I will never ever ever deal with those scum suckers.. |
| 22:47.46 | JacobKerr | nope.. |
| 22:47.46 | pelaofeliz | plus -- if inflation continues to rise, at some point your debt will be economically free |
| 22:48.01 | PoeticIntensity | yup. |
| 22:48.14 | PoeticIntensity | *IF* you control your money / spending wisely. |
| 22:48.43 | mindjuju | Well, when the US economy goes sour, you should... |
| 22:48.47 | mindjuju | Blame Canada! |
| 22:48.53 | cole_joplin | if you have a mortgage, go for the fixed rate |
| 22:48.53 | PoeticIntensity | nuke em'!!!! |
| 22:48.56 | dataw0lf | why even waste the time blaming em? nuke em! |
| 22:48.57 | pelaofeliz | well, if you pay 6% APR, and annual inflation is 6%, then the bank's making nothing on your money, and you're not losing anything |
| 22:49.00 | dataw0lf | yea, what PI said |
| 22:49.03 | cole_joplin | Lots of people getting burned on that one |
| 22:49.10 | PoeticIntensity | if you have a mortgage, pay someone to get you out of it and into something which makes more sense. |
| 22:49.23 | unum | that law screws renters so bad |
| 22:49.25 | beandog | PoeticIntensity, how do you do that |
| 22:49.57 | dataw0lf | well, I think you guys are taking renting at face value. |
| 22:49.59 | PoeticIntensity | by looking around and researching, beandog ... :) |
| 22:50.03 | beandog | figures |
| 22:50.06 | dataw0lf | The real point of renting is that someone else pays for home maintenance and care. |
| 22:50.13 | pelaofeliz | ..and taxes |
| 22:50.20 | cole_joplin | Of course, with an autistic son, I can kiss savings goodbye. As I get screwed by the health insurance industry. To the tuen of they cover ZERO. |
| 22:50.26 | JacobKerr | I am going to start my own bank just get a bunch of money from everyone and load out 9 times what I have and capitalize on it! |
| 22:50.34 | JacobKerr | Now that's the way to go... |
| 22:50.42 | JacobKerr | loan out* |
| 22:50.52 | PoeticIntensity | if you can do it, I totally agree, JacobKerr |
| 22:51.03 | PoeticIntensity | takes a heckuva leap of faith, however... |
| 22:51.11 | dataw0lf | well, once you HAVE money, it's easy to MAKE it |
| 22:51.12 | PoeticIntensity | and a large amount of money to begin with. |
| 22:51.16 | fungus | I ran an amortization on my own mortgage. After 5 years, I will have paid $54,000 in interest. Compare that to 5 years of rent at $1000/mo = $60,000 dollars. |
| 22:51.20 | JacobKerr | Yeah that's true, but I can do credit cheks.. |
| 22:51.22 | fungus | Looks like the mortgage wins |
| 22:51.38 | JacobKerr | I think that's why loan center are poping up all over the place.. |
| 22:51.40 | PoeticIntensity | fungus, I was paying $450.00 / month. |
| 22:51.44 | PoeticIntensity | for a 2-bedrom... |
| 22:51.46 | PoeticIntensity | bedroom |
| 22:51.54 | PoeticIntensity | I would have come out WAY ahead... |
| 22:52.07 | beandog | with renting? |
| 22:52.08 | beandog | or buying |
| 22:52.12 | PoeticIntensity | renting. |
| 22:52.14 | beandog | ah |
| 22:52.19 | beandog | 450, thats not bad. |
| 22:52.23 | PoeticIntensity | I'm paying close to $1000.00 in interest (or was) each month. |
| 22:52.26 | fungus | I had a house for $400/mo 3bedroom, but for only 2 years until the owner died. |
| 22:52.35 | fungus | Another risk of renting. |
| 22:52.38 | JacobKerr | honestly all we have to do is pull our money out and the entire system would colapse right?' |
| 22:52.49 | PoeticIntensity | most likely. |
| 22:52.52 | timinator | I have something to contribute..... |
| 22:53.00 | beandog | a run on the bank? |
| 22:53.04 | beandog | that'd cause some amok. |
| 22:53.13 | JacobKerr | because they do not really have all of our money allot of it has been loaned without our consent.. |
| 22:53.50 | PoeticIntensity | heh... there's no doubt in my mind. If we all demanded cash right now, the banks would crumble. |
| 22:53.53 | mindjuju | well, if everybody is goign to pull their money out, i nominate my house for where it should be stored. |
| 22:54.01 | PoeticIntensity | LOL |
| 22:54.04 | PoeticIntensity | awww yeah.. |
| 22:54.08 | timinator | if person A rents for 1k/mo, and person B buys w/ 1k/mo mortgage, then after 30 yrs, person A keeps paying 1k/mo, and person B sells his home for 6 figures cash |
| 22:54.26 | PoeticIntensity | true. |
| 22:54.26 | JacobKerr | LOL |
| 22:54.41 | fungus | Renting for 5 years ($1k/mo): yields loss of $60k, and $6,480 saved. |
| 22:54.55 | timinator | it's an investment.... like other investments.... there's a level of risk, there's benifits, there's drawbacks |
| 22:55.18 | fungus | Mortgage for 5 years ($1108/mo): yields loss of $54k (interest), and $12k in equity. |
| 22:55.26 | fungus | Mortgage > Renting |
| 22:55.44 | timinator | I'm just saying |
| 22:55.46 | dataw0lf | I was paying 500/month |
| 22:55.58 | dataw0lf | err, I AM paying 500/month |
| 22:55.59 | PoeticIntensity | If you are planning on buying a home with a 30-year mortgage, in the long run, you're better off doing the smart thing and saving to put a downpayment instead of buying with 0 down, IMHO. |
| 22:56.01 | dataw0lf | I was paying 100/month |
| 22:56.02 | timinator | I know a guy that makes 10% on his money twice a month |
| 22:56.09 | timinator | higher risk, higher profits |
| 22:56.13 | unum | don't forget the $15k you don't pay in taxes renting |
| 22:56.19 | JacobKerr | I wonder if coinstar is just a way of collecting all the money that actually has real value... LOL |
| 22:56.40 | beandog | I like renting |
| 22:56.44 | beandog | makes life simpler. |
| 22:56.46 | dataw0lf | unum: and home maintenance.. |
| 22:56.53 | PoeticIntensity | heh.... the value of money is completely dependant upon the market. |
| 22:56.58 | timinator | I hated renting |
| 22:57.00 | timinator | :) |
| 22:57.01 | dataw0lf | there's too much extraneous stuff in actually mortgaging a house to make a flat comparison. |
| 22:57.01 | PoeticIntensity | globally, it's 100% perceived value. |
| 22:57.10 | dataw0lf | so that's just misleading, fungus |
| 22:57.33 | JacobKerr | Yeah but a penny use to be 1 cent worth of copper.. |
| 22:57.38 | beandog | Im just gonna buy some land and build my own shack. |
| 22:57.40 | PoeticIntensity | bottom line - be smart when buying a home. |
| 22:57.43 | JacobKerr | but yeah depends on the market.. |
| 22:58.05 | fungus | Ok, so if I tack on taxes and insurance, it still yields lower losses, but about the same amount of savings/equity |
| 22:58.24 | timinator | Side Note: if anyone builds anything.... I have a contact for getting lumber..... fences, decks, homes, whatever |
| 22:58.30 | dataw0lf | so you plan on never having to hire a plumber, electrician, or anyone else to work on your home? |
| 22:58.41 | dataw0lf | because if you don't your house is going to be worth as much as a tent from K-Mart |
| 22:58.53 | dataw0lf | so maybe THAT would be the wise investment plan. |
| 22:59.30 | dataw0lf | personally, when I buy my yacht, I KNOW I'm going to be spending more in maintenace than the actual cost of the yacht. |
| 22:59.37 | dataw0lf | I'm fine with that. |
| 22:59.47 | fungus | I am a bit jaded. Renting didn't turn out well for me. |
| 22:59.48 | dataw0lf | a house isn't as bad, but, depending on the house and location, it almost could be. |
| 22:59.49 | beandog | Just move to mexico and get a mansion for $5k |
| 23:00.03 | timinator | I'm in |
| 23:00.14 | dataw0lf | hey tim I'll drop you off |
| 23:00.17 | jsmith | Vamos amigos! |
| 23:00.20 | timinator | LOL |
| 23:00.20 | beandog | rawk |
| 23:00.22 | fungus | I lived in a relative dump, but it was dirt cheap, then I got kicked out cause the owner kicked the bucket |
| 23:00.38 | beandog | fungus, why, did the new owners not like you |
| 23:00.40 | beandog | ? |
| 23:00.51 | fungus | They wanted to sell the house. |
| 23:01.11 | fungus | And their asking price was insane for the state the house was in. |
| 23:01.37 | beandog | that sucks. |
| 23:01.38 | fungus | I lucked out by buying my parents house when they moved out. |
| 23:02.00 | PoeticIntensity | nice. |
| 23:02.05 | dataw0lf | see, that's why rent has been great for me. My parents own lots of houses, and right now is only the second time I'm not renting from them. |
| 23:02.19 | dataw0lf | I was renting a 4 br 2 ba for a hundred dollars.. |
| 23:02.21 | dataw0lf | .. in Lake Tahoe. |
| 23:02.35 | PoeticIntensity | yeah... the only way you're ever gonna find that deal is through relatives... |
| 23:02.43 | dataw0lf | gots to love it. |
| 23:02.45 | beandog | or looney old grandmas. |
| 23:02.56 | fungus | If I had that same opportunity I would agree that renting, and saving your money is a good idea. |
| 23:02.56 | dataw0lf | well, technically, a looney old grandma IS a relative, beandog. |
| 23:03.23 | dataw0lf | fungus: yea, I've been lucky, so my sense of what's fair in the homeowners market may be a little skewed. |
| 23:03.37 | fungus | heh, the owner of the house I was renting was a loony old grandmother (to someone else) |
| 23:03.42 | beandog | I think Ill just move into someone's basement. |
| 23:03.49 | beandog | mindjuju wouldn't mind. |
| 23:04.15 | mindjuju | fo sho dude, it's not finished, but it has everything |
| 23:04.21 | dataw0lf | did I mention I have two ferrets now? Just sayin'. |
| 23:04.31 | mindjuju | nice and cold, like a crypt |
| 23:04.40 | mindjuju | that's the way i likes it |
| 23:04.48 | mindjuju | don't bother me with no sun, it's over rated |
| 23:04.50 | dataw0lf | uh huh uh huh |
| 23:04.55 | fungus | Also, trying to find a place to rent that allows two big dogs is really hard. |
| 23:05.06 | mindjuju | we have a lhasa apso |
| 23:05.09 | dataw0lf | fungus: Now that is valid. |
| 23:05.23 | dataw0lf | especially in Salt Lake; it seems particularly pet unfriendly. |
| 23:05.39 | fungus | Is it better elsewhere? |
| 23:05.40 | beandog | dataw0lf, you have ferrets? |
| 23:05.49 | timinator | that's cause people are cheap here |
| 23:05.54 | dataw0lf | fungus: Reno seems pretty good, Chicago was great, same with Germany. |
| 23:05.56 | dataw0lf | beandog: yup. |
| 23:06.01 | timinator | owners don't want to maintain their properties |
| 23:06.04 | dataw0lf | Aldus Manutius the Great and Guido van Rossum |
| 23:06.11 | dataw0lf | 4 month old male / 2 month old male |
| 23:06.13 | timinator | Kansas City was much more accomodating |
| 23:06.26 | mindjuju | texas pretty friendly with dogs |
| 23:06.37 | dataw0lf | only lived in the barracks when I was in Texas. |
| 23:06.42 | timinator | and the bankruptcy rate was much lower in KC too. |
| 23:07.13 | jsmith | timinator: And the food is better too! |
| 23:07.20 | timinator | FO SHO!!!!! |
| 23:07.24 | timinator | dang! |
| 23:07.32 | jsmith | Arthur Bryant's.... |
| 23:07.36 | timinator | yes |
| 23:07.39 | timinator | Gates |
| 23:07.44 | jsmith | ... or some of those little places down on the Plaza ... |
| 23:08.03 | timinator | McCormick and Smick |
| 23:08.11 | timinator | yes |
| 23:08.11 | jsmith | Yeah, you can get that wherever though |
| 23:08.27 | dataw0lf | I'll tell you what, I'm not big into restaraunt chains, but I went to Claim Jumpers this weekend, it was pretty dang good. |
| 23:08.29 | timinator | I'm done for the day, now that you said Arthur Bryant's |
| 23:08.31 | jsmith | I've eaten at M&S in Boston, San Jose, KC, all over the place |
| 23:08.33 | dataw0lf | restaurant* |
| 23:08.41 | jsmith | timinator: Glad you approve ;-) |
| 23:08.57 | timinator | definitely |
| 23:09.23 | timinator | I used to know Johnny from Johnny's BBQ |
| 23:09.50 | timinator | do they still have the New Theater Restaurant? |
| 23:10.03 | jsmith | Dunno... never heard of it. |
| 23:10.17 | jsmith | I don't make it to KC very often any more... the company I was working for got bought by another company. |
| 23:10.21 | timinator | my wife and I spent New Years there once.... had a great time |
| 23:10.24 | jsmith | So now I go to Huntsville, AL a lot instead |
| 23:10.30 | timinator | :( |
| 23:11.04 | jsmith | timinator: My favorite thing was to go hang out in some of the jazz clubs there... there was this one down by the Plaza that had a great Brazilian jazz band |
| 23:11.28 | timinator | there's a guy in KC that owns a few Oriental/Sushi Restaurants.... I knew him too |
| 23:11.30 | timinator | oh, ya |
| 23:11.38 | timinator | the Majestic was a fav of mine |
| 23:11.42 | timinator | and Club 427 |
| 23:11.58 | timinator | ....but those were more downtown |
| 23:12.51 | jsmith | timinator: We found this great little sushi restaurant in... Brookside? Is that what it's called? |
| 23:12.51 | timinator | :`( |
| 23:13.03 | jsmith | What's that neighborhood called?!? |
| 23:13.13 | timinator | not sure |
| 23:14.02 | timinator | I've been gone for >5yrs |
| 23:14.21 | timinator | were you just south of Crown Center? |
| 23:14.34 | timinator | I think there's an area called Brookside there |
| 23:14.44 | timinator | like around 32 and Broadway |
| 23:14.49 | jsmith | Yeah, it's Brookside |
| 23:14.57 | jsmith | My office was 40th and Broadway |
| 23:15.05 | timinator | oh, right on |
| 23:15.46 | jsmith | Great location... |
| 23:15.51 | timinator | I took some classes at Penn Valley for a while |
| 23:16.07 | timinator | ya |
| 23:16.13 | jsmith | And of course, you can't get away without eating some great ice-cream at Murray's |
| 23:16.27 | timinator | never had that.... |
| 23:16.33 | timinator | but there's a great deli right there |
| 23:16.50 | timinator | and don't forget Lamars doughnuts |
| 23:16.59 | timinator | mmmm |
| 23:17.08 | jsmith | It's over in Westport |
| 23:17.10 | timinator | my day's shot now |
| 23:17.15 | jsmith | Mmmmn... Lamars |
| 23:17.20 | jsmith | Yup... you might as well call it a day |
| 23:17.38 | jsmith | http://kansascity.about.com/od/restaurants/tp/KCBestIceCream.htm |
| 23:18.28 | orsonj | (for anyone who has listened to Security Now recently.) |
| 23:19.07 | timinator | go orsonj |
| 23:20.02 | jsmith | orsonj: Sorry, what's pppv3? |
| 23:21.25 | orsonj | It is a one time password system that Steve Gibson of GRC is working on. |
| 23:21.33 | fungus | orsonj: v3 already? I just heard the one about v2 |
| 23:21.57 | orsonj | yep, v3 allows any character set you want as well as any passcode length. |
| 23:23.58 | fungus | Oh, I didn't really care about that. I liked his charset and length already. |
| 23:25.02 | influx^^ | hay guyz |
| 23:25.10 | influx^^ | <-- temp agency n00b |
| 23:25.24 | mgeary | i'd never recommend someone rent over buy |
| 23:25.47 | orsonj | I like the charset also, but it makes sense for certain applications. ex: cell phone. |
| 23:25.54 | mgeary | i'd also recommend against a 30-year mortgage. i'm on a 15-year mortgage, and that alone will save a grundle |
| 23:26.57 | mgeary | but i should have my house paid off after year 10 |
| 23:27.18 | dataw0lf | influx^^: what's up? |
| 23:27.20 | thebigdog | bi-monthly payments are good too |
| 23:27.30 | fungus | mgeary: that is great, but that would bump up payments beyond many people's means. |
| 23:27.39 | dataw0lf | I say we all agree that stealing manufactured homes is the best recourse. |
| 23:27.40 | mgeary | fungus: possibly so |
| 23:27.41 | dataw0lf | And leave it at that. |
| 23:27.44 | thebigdog | and making 1 extra payment a year can really help out |
| 23:27.48 | mgeary | thebigdog: yes |
| 23:27.58 | mgeary | a payment of pure principal can make a huge diff |
| 23:28.10 | mgeary | but much more so on a 30-year than a 15 |
| 23:28.25 | thebigdog | however, investing, as dataw0lf mentioned, is a must now days |
| 23:28.41 | mgeary | well, you need to be saving for the future, yes |
| 23:28.43 | dataw0lf | also, if you don't have a quarter of what the house is worth, at least, you probably shouldn't be buying anyways. |
| 23:28.48 | thebigdog | i invest $300 a month, plus whatever i make from investments |
| 23:29.04 | dataw0lf | thebigdog: yea, I invest 200/month, and save about a thousand a month. |
| 23:29.24 | mgeary | what's your distinction between "invest" and "save"? |
| 23:29.37 | thebigdog | i invest in mutual funds and other things |
| 23:29.40 | dataw0lf | save is easily accessible money with a low interest gain |
| 23:29.41 | thebigdog | via my portfolio |
| 23:29.47 | influx^^ | dataw0lf: In two days, I completed a temp assignment that was supposed to take one week. |
| 23:29.49 | mgeary | ok, save == cash equivalent |
| 23:29.50 | dataw0lf | I invest in mutual funds, almost exclusively. |
| 23:29.55 | fungus | lol, Utah Financial is still using the Bi-Weekly calculator I wrote 5 years ago. |
| 23:29.58 | fungus | http://utahfinancial.com/calculator.php?id=24 |
| 23:30.01 | dataw0lf | influx^^: very nice. |
| 23:30.14 | thebigdog | mutual funds, stocks, bonds, utilities and other things |
| 23:30.29 | dataw0lf | and Boardwalk. Don't forget to build hotels on Boardwalk. |
| 23:30.30 | mgeary | IRA? or "normal" account? |
| 23:30.31 | thebigdog | i have most in high yeild |
| 23:30.43 | thebigdog | i have a roth ira |
| 23:30.48 | thebigdog | and other accounts too |
| 23:30.48 | mgeary | yeah, those are great |
| 23:30.50 | dataw0lf | IRA++ |
| 23:30.58 | mgeary | but it bites that you can only put $4k in an IRA per year |
| 23:31.01 | thebigdog | i have 3 iras |
| 23:31.32 | thebigdog | and i have savings accounts for each of my kids |
| 23:31.42 | thebigdog | i put in $75 per month for each one |
| 23:31.43 | mgeary | yeah, that's another good one |
| 23:31.51 | mgeary | same here (~$100) |
| 23:31.56 | thebigdog | i dont do the funky accounts with them |
| 23:32.03 | thebigdog | they are all mine...it is my money |
| 23:32.07 | mgeary | yep |
| 23:32.08 | mgeary | same |
| 23:32.10 | mgeary | that's easiest |
| 23:32.11 | thebigdog | no stupid educational funds |
| 23:32.21 | mgeary | no. those have some funky strings attached |
| 23:32.21 | influx^^ | what's the difference? |
| 23:32.32 | influx^^ | (honest question) |
| 23:32.34 | thebigdog | the kids gets all the money |
| 23:32.35 | mgeary | 529 plans can only be used in certain states |
| 23:32.47 | thebigdog | i have seen many kids blow it all |
| 23:32.58 | thebigdog | parents have not right when the kid comes of age |
| 23:33.04 | mgeary | exactly. also, if financial disaster hit you, you couldn't spend that money |
| 23:33.09 | thebigdog | my account = my money = i do what i want |
| 23:33.17 | thebigdog | yep |
| 23:33.40 | thebigdog | hehe |
| 23:33.49 | *** part/#uphpu brasto (n=brasto@out.lnxi.com) |
| 23:33.49 | influx^^ | Your voice is too low, I think. |
| 23:33.53 | mgeary | we've got all those accounts in Vanguard's S&P 500 index. Historical growth of ~13% per year |
| 23:34.03 | thebigdog | those are good |
| 23:34.04 | mgeary | that means your money doubles every five years |
| 23:34.13 | thebigdog | i have tempelton funds |
| 23:34.26 | thebigdog | i started at 25 |
| 23:34.36 | thebigdog | or 24...cant remember |
| 23:34.50 | mgeary | influx: today |
| 23:34.56 | influx^^ | with 0 dollars? |
| 23:35.00 | timinator | :) |
| 23:35.03 | mgeary | save $100 per month |
| 23:35.04 | thebigdog | yes..you will make more if you start earlier |
| 23:35.12 | mgeary | anyone can save $100/month |
| 23:35.24 | mgeary | influx: go to vanguard.com and open a Roth IRA |
| 23:35.45 | mgeary | stocks are down lately, so they're "on sale" |
| 23:36.23 | thebigdog | but if you play hte market do it with extra money |
| 23:36.27 | thebigdog | not your savings money |
| 23:36.28 | mgeary | but you should also try to get ~6 months of expenses saved in a cash-equivalent account |
| 23:36.33 | mgeary | don't play the market |
| 23:37.17 | mgeary | until you've got 6mos cash stored, anyway |
| 23:37.36 | thebigdog | technically a year would be great |
| 23:37.41 | thebigdog | but it is hard too do |
| 23:37.49 | thebigdog | especially with a family |
| 23:38.11 | influx^^ | <-- should be without kids for a long, *long* time. |
| 23:38.38 | influx^^ | Not till I'm 35, maayyybe 30. |
| 23:39.13 | influx^^ | mgeary: I'm guessing you had things stable/secure enough to support kids at that age. |
| 23:39.24 | mgeary | heh. |
| 23:39.33 | mgeary | yeah, that was at the peak of the "boom days" |
| 23:39.50 | mgeary | six figures at 30... |
| 23:40.02 | influx^^ | Nice. |
| 23:40.12 | mgeary | it's fluctuated a bit since then ;) |
| 23:40.20 | influx^^ | I hope to get started on buying a home asap. |
| 23:40.31 | mgeary | those were crazy days |
| 23:40.54 | dataw0lf | I plan on having kids at 70 |
| 23:40.57 | dataw0lf | with a 20 year old. |
| 23:41.09 | influx^^ | dataw0lf: You'll be virile well past 100, I'm sure. |
| 23:41.56 | mindjuju | too funny |
| 23:42.06 | dataw0lf | with the coming age of nanotechnology and robotics, probably past 300! |
| 23:42.14 | dataw0lf | just think of the possibilities if I live to 300. |
| 23:42.30 | dataw0lf | various armageddon possibilities are already running through my head! |
| 23:42.46 | influx^^ | I'd like to have my own planet at 300. |
| 23:43.07 | influx^^ | Nothing fancy; maybe the size of the moon. |
| 23:43.19 | mindjuju | yeah, with nano tech i plan on armor plating my little guys and putting in GPS so they find their target easier. maybe a protein pack for a NO2 boost |
| 23:43.20 | dataw0lf | that's no moon; IT'S A SPACESTATION! |
| 23:43.31 | influx^^ | :] |
| 23:45.21 | *** join/#uphpu fungus (n=olsonl@216.112.118.17) |
| 23:45.21 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o fungus] by ChanServ |
| 23:45.28 | dataw0lf | man, the colts really need to rally and get past these two losses. |
| 23:45.29 | dataw0lf | :( |
| 23:53.24 | timinator | later guys.... I'm out |
| 23:54.21 | dataw0lf | ... bye |
| 23:54.23 | dataw0lf | :\ |
| 23:54.55 | *** join/#uphpu macnewbol1 (n=mac@166-70-178-126.ip.xmission.com) |
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| 23:56.22 | *** part/#uphpu cole_joplin (n=cjoplin@gw.helius.com) |