| 00:00.04 | herlo | Xen |
| 00:00.31 | herlo | so dataw0lf, I challenge you to tell *me* y moinmoin sucks. If you can... |
| 00:00.32 | herlo | :) |
| 00:01.08 | herlo | mindjuju: I get those emails about once a week anymore |
| 00:02.18 | mindjuju | anybody here use eMusic ? |
| 00:03.37 | herlo | mindjuju: last.fm is my choice |
| 00:03.43 | herlo | mindjuju: or somafm |
| 00:04.06 | mindjuju | yeah, but they aren't playing what i'm looking for |
| 00:04.17 | mindjuju | i know somebody here uses it cause I remember seeing it |
| 00:04.40 | herlo | mindjuju: ahh |
| 00:04.49 | mindjuju | ~APB orsonj |
| 00:04.50 | jbot | ACTION summons Dog the Bounty Hunter to rough up orsonj |
| 00:04.59 | mindjuju | orsonj has it |
| 00:08.50 | mindjuju | man, i can't believe this. eMusic has a cap of 30 downloads a month! WTH am I suppose to do for the other 30 days, 23hrs and 20 minutes? |
| 00:09.51 | PoeticIntensity | emusic..... that name sounds familiar.... |
| 00:10.07 | mindjuju | yeah, i used to be a member like back in 2000 |
| 00:10.09 | PoeticIntensity | aren't they the place that like... gives away free music when you buy like..... an audio X5 or something? |
| 00:10.16 | mindjuju | nah |
| 00:10.25 | PoeticIntensity | and they don't sell anything but indie music that is pretty much unpopular... |
| 00:10.26 | mindjuju | it's really cheap music, but there is one catch |
| 00:10.30 | mindjuju | yeah |
| 00:10.33 | mindjuju | that's the catch |
| 00:10.35 | PoeticIntensity | yeah... |
| 00:10.37 | mindjuju | EXCEPT |
| 00:10.42 | mindjuju | 1 problem |
| 00:10.45 | PoeticIntensity | They tried to sell me "100 free songs" with my X5. |
| 00:10.49 | mindjuju | they have one song that is driving me crazy |
| 00:10.54 | PoeticIntensity | oh? |
| 00:11.19 | mindjuju | yeah, i'm trying to find you a link |
| 00:11.20 | mindjuju | hang on |
| 00:14.08 | PoeticIntensity | k |
| 00:14.18 | mindjuju | here is link, http://www.pandora.com/music/album/tobias+tinker/broken+saints+vol+4+soundtrack click on the song Tiga |
| 00:14.31 | mindjuju | darn you pandora! you are my bane! |
| 00:14.53 | mindjuju | the whole song is like that, way cool |
| 00:17.04 | mgeary | hye you DB folk-- is there any way to use a select alias in another select function? |
| 00:17.07 | mgeary | for example: |
| 00:17.10 | mgeary | http://dpaste.com/19928/ |
| 00:17.32 | mgeary | first col selected is an equation that is aliased as "processing_time" |
| 00:17.44 | mgeary | next col is # of rows |
| 00:18.08 | mgeary | and 3rd col wants to be an average, but it'd be so much nicer to use the aliases of the first two selects, than to have to rewrite the functions again |
| 00:18.11 | mgeary | know what i mean? |
| 00:20.11 | mindjuju | hang on like 2 seconds and i'll check out the statement |
| 00:21.10 | mgeary | methinks there's no way to re-use a column |
| 00:21.15 | mgeary | that's just silly |
| 00:24.47 | mindjuju | k, sorry bout that |
| 00:26.29 | mindjuju | k, i know what you mean by a select alias, but not sure what mean by "another select function" are you saying a subquery ? |
| 00:28.11 | mgeary | no |
| 00:28.48 | PoeticIntensity | mindjuju, ... just listened to the sample... Pretty cool groove! |
| 00:29.25 | mindjuju | are you saying a whole bunch of sql statements in a stored procedure |
| 00:29.25 | PoeticIntensity | I'm outta here, boys.... Catch ya'll tomorrow. |
| 00:29.25 | mindjuju | PoeticIntensity, i was going batty, i just signed up for a trial |
| 00:29.25 | mindjuju | cya Pi |
| 00:30.16 | PoeticIntensity | chao |
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| 01:47.19 | bradym | anyone used the del.icio.us api much? |
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| 06:03.28 | dataw0lf|x | evenin |
| 06:03.53 | influx^^ | evenin' |
| 06:04.19 | dataw0lf|x | sup influx^^ |
| 06:06.02 | influx^^ | nm, just writing out my "app" on paper now instead of just diving into coding. |
| 06:06.27 | influx^^ | you? |
| 06:08.04 | dataw0lf|x | working on a jquery plugin I'm writing |
| 06:09.24 | influx^^ | Cool. |
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| 14:16.31 | timinator | morning |
| 14:17.02 | jsmith | G'morning timinator |
| 14:17.21 | timinator | so, where's home for you jsmith? |
| 14:17.25 | timinator | PA? UT? |
| 14:17.39 | jsmith | timinator: VA |
| 14:18.15 | jsmith | But I was in Utah long enough that I still hang out in here (mostly for the social aspect... I do very little PHP work anymore) |
| 14:18.15 | timinator | cool |
| 14:19.34 | timinator | I hear ya, this is a great community |
| 14:20.54 | jsmith | Yup... |
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| 14:40.29 | timinator | thebigdog is in the house!!! |
| 14:40.32 | timinator | :) |
| 14:40.34 | thebigdog | oh yeah |
| 14:44.52 | jsmith | mindjuju: Better than Jerky Treats... Jerky Treats are too salty |
| 14:45.34 | mindjuju | how was Canada? |
| 14:46.48 | mindjuju | wow, zimbra got purchased by Yahoo |
| 14:54.50 | jsmith | mindjuju: Canada was awesome... and yes, I'm surprised by the Zimbra thing... |
| 14:56.55 | mindjuju | from what i'm reading, it doesn't sound like much will change as for product, community interaction, etc |
| 15:00.24 | jsmith | Man, I was hoping it would mean they'd finally be able to hire a couple of guys to finish the Evolution plugin |
| 15:00.31 | jsmith | But, it'll probably never happen |
| 15:04.38 | dataw0lf | zimbra++ |
| 15:06.20 | jsmith | Oh, don't get me wrong... Zimbra is pretty slick |
| 15:06.48 | mindjuju | jsmith - forced? |
| 15:06.52 | jsmith | I just wish some of it would work better... for people who want to use a real mail client under Linux and aren't sold on their AJAX interface |
| 15:07.05 | mindjuju | ah |
| 15:09.50 | mindjuju | on reliablity |
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| 15:14.52 | jsmith | I don't care about reliability... that's somebody else's concern (luckily!) |
| 15:14.56 | jsmith | I want features! |
| 15:15.23 | mindjuju | ah |
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| 15:25.18 | dataw0lf | jsmith: their AJAX interface IS pretty slick |
| 15:25.33 | dataw0lf | but, yea, I wouldn't use it as my work client |
| 15:25.42 | dataw0lf | or, rather, I wouldn't like to |
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| 15:41.12 | brasto | when does beandog usually show up? |
| 15:41.17 | brasto | ~seen beandog |
| 15:41.20 | jbot | beandog <n=steve@gentoo/developer/beandog> was last seen on IRC in channel #uphpu, 16h 26m 40s ago, saying: 'the screen gets all fooblie'. |
| 15:41.45 | brasto | ~dict fooblie |
| 15:41.53 | brasto | ~wiki fooblie |
| 15:42.04 | brasto | ~google fooblie |
| 15:47.45 | orsonj | fooblie.com asks the question, but doesn't really have an answer |
| 15:52.01 | orsonj | Fooblie is a Level 27 Tauren Druid of the Guild "Bah" http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=Blackrock&n=Fooblie |
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| 16:01.19 | wps | I seem to remember someone showing me a way to display query results in MySQL monitor (terminal) in a special way that allowed you to see a lot of rows and columns easier |
| 16:01.50 | wps | anyone know anything about that? |
| 16:02.43 | wps | for example, if you are only selecting two or three columns from the table then it will usually fit across your terminal window without wrapping, but if you are selecting *, then it gets ugly |
| 16:03.16 | wps | it seems like there was a flag or something that you could use that would display the results in grouped blocks of horizontal rows or something |
| 16:03.34 | beandog | really? that would be nice. |
| 16:03.41 | beandog | I know you can set a pager, but thats it |
| 16:03.59 | wps | I'll post to the list |
| 16:08.18 | PelaoFeliz | you can do SELECT * FROM foo LIMIT 1\G to rotate the output... |
| 16:08.49 | PelaoFeliz | so instead of |
| 16:08.49 | PelaoFeliz | col1 | col2 | col3 |
| 16:08.49 | PelaoFeliz | data | data | data |
| 16:09.15 | PelaoFeliz | you get: |
| 16:09.15 | PelaoFeliz | col1: data |
| 16:09.15 | PelaoFeliz | col2: data |
| 16:09.15 | PelaoFeliz | col3: data |
| 16:09.16 | PelaoFeliz | ------------ |
| 16:09.16 | PelaoFeliz | col1: data |
| 16:09.18 | PelaoFeliz | col2: data |
| 16:09.20 | PelaoFeliz | col3: data |
| 16:09.22 | PelaoFeliz | is that what you mean? |
| 16:09.28 | wps | yes, I think so |
| 16:10.41 | wps | your example returned one row |
| 16:11.04 | wps | I tried 2\G and got two rows |
| 16:11.13 | wps | what if I wanted them all? |
| 16:11.19 | PelaoFeliz | get rid of the LIMIT 1; |
| 16:11.28 | wps | just use \G ? |
| 16:11.31 | PelaoFeliz | yep |
| 16:11.37 | PelaoFeliz | \G instead of a semicolon |
| 16:12.00 | wps | worked with the semi colon too |
| 16:12.02 | wps | thank you! |
| 16:12.05 | wps | that's exactly what I wanted |
| 16:12.14 | wps | why G? |
| 16:12.44 | PelaoFeliz | dunno |
| 16:12.53 | PelaoFeliz | '?' in the console shows this line for \G: |
| 16:12.53 | PelaoFeliz | ego (\G) Send command to mysql server, display result vertically. |
| 16:13.21 | PelaoFeliz | dunno what 'ego' means in that context, though |
| 16:13.32 | wps | ah… nice |
| 16:13.49 | wps | so the back slash is a MySQL monitor thing to issue a command |
| 16:14.03 | PelaoFeliz | yeah, if you put a semicolon on the end of it though you usually get "ERROR: No query specified" at the end of your result set |
| 16:14.15 | PelaoFeliz | yeah |
| 16:14.51 | PelaoFeliz | ...since \G sends the command, then the semicolon sends another (empty) command |
| 16:14.56 | wps | a |
| 16:14.57 | wps | ah |
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| 16:48.42 | mgeary | can anyone hit http://www.surveymonkey.com/ ? |
| 16:49.01 | wps | no |
| 16:49.02 | wps | server busy |
| 16:59.15 | dataw0lf | I'm there. |
| 17:06.27 | Utah_Dave | works for me |
| 17:15.10 | _psychic_ | I can see it |
| 17:15.26 | wps | works for me now |
| 17:18.02 | unum | how do people typically handle getting data when you have a one to many relationship, I guess what I'm asking is if there's a way to do it all in one query |
| 17:18.34 | unum | so I have a table of cars and a table of options with a one to many relationship |
| 17:19.30 | unum | and I want to do a query where get information from the cars and table and combine it with all of the options that it is cross referenced to |
| 17:25.46 | beandog | inner join |
| 17:25.46 | beandog | just grab everything |
| 17:25.47 | beandog | then sort it out in your scripts |
| 17:27.29 | wps | what takes you to the beginning of a line in vi? |
| 17:27.48 | PelaoFeliz | in command mode: ^ |
| 17:28.06 | wps | thanks |
| 17:35.21 | mindjuju | so, i get this IM in the morning from a software support tech who says a particular client can't download a file from the website. |
| 17:35.54 | mindjuju | so i says, uh, that's not enoguh info for me to trouble shoot, are they logged in, is it a browser issue |
| 17:35.59 | mindjuju | so they reply asking what they should do |
| 17:36.07 | mindjuju | and I said, ask around or talk to your super |
| 17:36.45 | mindjuju | k, turns out it wasn't a software support tech, it's the company's newest employee, the Boss's new son-in-law |
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| 17:42.00 | beandog | mindjuju, heh |
| 17:42.02 | beandog | you have all the fun |
| 17:43.03 | mindjuju | :) |
| 17:47.04 | wps | i sure wish that PLUG's mailing list prefixed subject lines with "[PLUG]" |
| 17:51.00 | jsmith | wps: You've got my vote! |
| 17:51.45 | dataw0lf | s/paper/bits |
| 17:52.22 | jsmith | dataw0lf: Not unless Diebold has its way |
| 17:54.13 | dataw0lf | they're lobbying hard |
| 17:55.37 | jsmith | Why do they have to lobby? They just need to swing a few votes to the right side... |
| 17:56.31 | jsmith | Ouch... |
| 17:56.34 | dataw0lf | you know all the crap I talked about JavaScript frameworks? |
| 17:56.43 | dataw0lf | jquery+++++ |
| 17:56.49 | dataw0lf | jquery is unbelievable. |
| 17:56.55 | _psychic_ | train.wrecks()---------- |
| 17:57.10 | dataw0lf | Everytime I think something is going to take 20 lines of code, I can do it with five chained methods in jquery |
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| 18:23.58 | mgeary | looks fun |
| 18:24.21 | mgeary | does it play well with Prototype? |
| 18:32.33 | dataw0lf | I dunno, jquery is all I need |
| 18:32.42 | dataw0lf | it's pretty sweet mgeary. it's all lispish/pythonic |
| 18:32.53 | mgeary | i'll have to check it out |
| 18:32.56 | dataw0lf | definitely |
| 18:33.48 | herlo | ~lart dataw0lf |
| 18:33.48 | jbot | sends a legion of lawyers after dataw0lf's head |
| 18:34.26 | mgeary | woah, jquery seems to be as polarizing as Smarty |
| 18:34.38 | dataw0lf | https://xml.prodasol.com/xml_test/ajax/treeview/index.html |
| 18:34.43 | dataw0lf | anyone got IE that they can run that in? |
| 18:35.04 | mindjuju | yeah, hang on |
| 18:35.54 | dataw0lf | browse around it, and if you could, tell me if the checkboxes propagate the children if the target box is unchecked |
| 18:36.38 | brasto | plug is having a geek lunch tomorrow in Draper for Thai food. I plan to go. Anyone here want the info that doesn't already have it? |
| 18:37.03 | mindjuju | does prop if checkbox unchecked |
| 18:37.28 | mgeary | geeks + Thai food don't mix well for mgeary |
| 18:37.28 | dataw0lf | word, danke. |
| 18:38.16 | timinator | same here DW |
| 18:38.37 | timinator | on IE 6 |
| 18:38.39 | herlo | brasto: I asked if this was going to be a weekly thing, between php, plug, sllug, etc. I think it would be pretty cool |
| 18:38.42 | dataw0lf | timinator: danke |
| 18:56.15 | brasto | herlo, i never got my uosc t-shirt arrrrr there any more? Tomorrow is national talk-like-a-pirate day, so I'm practicing... |
| 18:57.11 | herlo | brasto: yep, there are. I'll bring one to you if you like at a meet or something... |
| 19:01.05 | brasto | sounds good. I plan to be at the lunch tomorrow and the uphpu meeting Thursday |
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| 19:41.06 | unum | so when I'm doing a select statement I can do something like "SELECT first_name||last_name AS name FROM people" |
| 19:41.21 | unum | I forgot how to insert a space between the fields |
| 19:41.48 | PelaoFeliz | CONCAT(first_name,' ',last_name)? |
| 19:43.29 | unum | that is how I did it last time |
| 19:43.36 | unum | but I need to type cast the ' ' |
| 19:43.46 | dataw0lf | first_name || ' ' || last_name |
| 19:43.46 | unum | thanks, I had forgotten |
| 19:43.48 | dataw0lf | ah |
| 19:43.51 | unum | I wonder where that code is... |
| 19:44.45 | PelaoFeliz | CAT(' ' AS CHAR) doesn't work? |
| 19:45.07 | PelaoFeliz | CAST, not CAT |
| 19:50.28 | unum | doesn't look like postgres has concat |
| 19:50.36 | unum | I thought that's what I used before, but I guess not |
| 19:52.33 | unum | oh it's way easy |
| 19:52.48 | unum | "SELECT first_name||' '||last_name AS name FROM people" |
| 19:52.50 | unum | works |
| 19:53.44 | mgeary | holy, holy cow. i just got a fax from a client who's been sent a letter threatening a lawsuit because, in Dec. 2006 a web user tried to search for a specific term, and the client's web page came up and the user "couldn't go anywhere else" |
| 19:53.59 | mgeary | the guy wants a $2500 settlement |
| 19:54.24 | _psychic_ | countersue. |
| 19:54.31 | wps | huh? |
| 19:55.44 | _psychic_ | A year old half-baked claim. That's really classy. |
| 19:55.59 | _psychic_ | I wish I could sue people whose websites sucked. |
| 19:56.34 | beandog | mgeary, weerd |
| 19:56.40 | beandog | so, what was the term? |
| 19:56.50 | _psychic_ | "black hole" |
| 19:57.01 | beandog | mm |
| 19:57.01 | _psychic_ | honeypot? |
| 19:57.03 | _psychic_ | quicksand? |
| 19:57.07 | beandog | I've got The Black Hole bed sheets |
| 19:57.27 | beandog | Every night I go to bed in fear of killer robots |
| 20:16.29 | mindjuju | mgeary, no joking? on that lawsuit ? |
| 20:16.43 | mgeary | no joking |
| 20:16.48 | mgeary | you should see this letter |
| 20:16.51 | mgeary | it's absolute insane |
| 20:16.58 | mindjuju | wow |
| 20:17.16 | _psychic_ | that's a seriously good digg article in the making |
| 20:17.24 | mindjuju | yeah, true that |
| 20:17.38 | _psychic_ | you gotta post it |
| 20:19.38 | mgeary | it's a fax |
| 20:19.41 | mgeary | don't wanna transcribe |
| 20:19.48 | mgeary | though i might if i get annoyed enough |
| 20:20.21 | _psychic_ | scan it |
| 20:20.27 | _psychic_ | image is better |
| 20:20.31 | mgeary | yeah |
| 20:20.32 | _psychic_ | sounds like a scammer to me |
| 20:20.35 | mgeary | totally |
| 20:20.41 | mgeary | but the guy has done this before |
| 20:20.53 | influx^^ | To your client? |
| 20:21.09 | mgeary | google "Charles Burgess" litigation |
| 20:21.29 | mgeary | http://fishlawfirm.com/blog/2007/07/19/court-recognizes-potential-claim-against-advertisers-including-american-express-experian-cingular-wireless-target-wal-mart-and-vonage-for-trespass-to-chattels-for-pop-up-advertisements/ |
| 20:22.33 | mgeary | the guy is a complete nut job |
| 20:22.39 | beandog | ~tinyurl mgeary |
| 20:22.43 | mgeary | heh |
| 20:22.44 | mgeary | sorry |
| 20:22.47 | beandog | :) |
| 20:23.23 | beandog | isnt there a limit to a length of HTTP urls? |
| 20:23.32 | beandog | I think that one is pushing it |
| 20:44.18 | PoeticIntensity | jbot, beandog needs a hug |
| 20:46.34 | beandog | buh |
| 20:47.07 | PoeticIntensity | ;-) |
| 20:47.36 | PoeticIntensity | read my blog, bud (when you get a chance) and lemme know what you think. |
| 20:47.50 | beandog | bueno |
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| 21:16.49 | dataw0lf | there isn't a standardized limit to HTTP url length |
| 21:16.56 | dataw0lf | just to field length on certain web servers |
| 21:17.33 | thebigdog | i think IE has a url length max of 2083 chars |
| 21:17.34 | mindjuju | i thought it was set by the browser, and that IE 5, 6 was 255 char |
| 21:17.40 | mindjuju | oh, maybe longer? |
| 21:18.03 | mindjuju | thebigdog is right |
| 21:18.03 | thebigdog | i have seen 2048 chars too |
| 21:18.10 | mindjuju | http://support.microsoft.com/kb/208427 |
| 21:18.12 | thebigdog | that is on both post and get |
| 21:18.46 | mindjuju | article says that applies to IE 4 - 7 |
| 21:18.50 | thebigdog | however, dataw0lf might be referring to the protocol has no standard limit |
| 21:19.36 | mindjuju | check this out |
| 21:19.36 | mindjuju | http://www.boutell.com/newfaq/misc/urllength.html |
| 21:19.40 | thebigdog | ff i dont think has a limit..but will stop displaying |
| 21:19.42 | mindjuju | has all kinds of max info |
| 21:19.48 | mindjuju | yeah, that's what it says |
| 21:19.56 | mindjuju | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:21.46 | mindjuju | for some reason, i thought i recalled some kind of limit on bookmarklets being 255 which is why i mentioned that earlier, but maybe that was a constraint of being a bookmarklet and not a URL max length |
| 21:23.34 | thebigdog | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:23.34 | thebigdog | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:23.35 | thebigdog | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:23.35 | thebigdog | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:23.35 | thebigdog | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:23.35 | thebigdog | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:24.14 | thebigdog | http 1.1 rfc 2616 |
| 21:28.33 | orsonj | Is it just me, or did experts-exchange recently stop doing their stupid hide the answer unless you are google thing? |
| 21:28.42 | jnbek | umm, why would you want a URL that's 2048 characters long much less 65536?> |
| 21:28.43 | *** join/#uphpu bradym (n=bradym@Qst4FC.quinstreet.com) |
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| 21:28.59 | jnbek | that's just overkill, imo :-P |
| 21:29.00 | mindjuju | orsonj, AFAIK - they still do it |
| 21:29.13 | mindjuju | but, the catch is that not all the topics are closed, which is when the solution hides |
| 21:29.31 | mindjuju | which is why the moderators are going through and closing all they can |
| 21:29.57 | mindjuju | if you look at the bottom of a hidden one, sometimes it'll have a comment at the bottom saying something like, Moderator forced closed... |
| 21:34.19 | mindjuju | well gents, i just got invited to breakfast @ the Grand American! Hosted by vmware and equallogic |
| 21:35.59 | jnbek | nice |
| 21:37.17 | mindjuju | seems like thebigdog was telling me about a shirt he had i should get one of, where it says Select * from management where clue > 0 |
| 21:37.46 | orsonj | 0 results returned |
| 21:37.49 | timinator | LOL |
| 21:37.58 | _psychic_ | www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/coder/595d/ |
| 21:38.20 | mindjuju | yeah, but that is the one just for users, |
| 21:38.23 | mindjuju | this one targets management |
| 21:38.33 | mindjuju | that's an extra spicy meatball! |
| 21:41.24 | mindjuju | hey, thebigdog , this is the pic i printed and posted on a work bulletin board. Fun for a bunch of laughs http://www.gdargaud.net/Humor/Pics/ManagementEmployees.jpg |
| 21:41.50 | thebigdog | that is a classic |
| 21:42.03 | thebigdog | you have a bigger pic or better res |
| 21:42.03 | mindjuju | yeah |
| 21:42.19 | mindjuju | ah, i got that from google images, i'll see if they have one |
| 21:42.26 | thebigdog | k |
| 21:42.33 | thebigdog | i might need to print on for my office |
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| 21:44.20 | mindjuju | i'm getting this printed up for my office, and i'll put something snappy underneath like, sometimes you gotta paddle like hell! http://www.whitesharktrust.org/media/newsmedia2/africageographic200509p4243.jpg |
| 21:44.25 | timinator | << Apple + P >> ....oops |
| 21:45.29 | mindjuju | it's times like that you need a self-destruct button on a kayak... that shark looks like it could easily do dude + kayak at the same time |
| 21:53.03 | thebigdog | too bad that is not a real pic |
| 21:54.03 | mindjuju | oh, thought it was |
| 21:54.14 | mindjuju | i see that it's cropped in the center, but it is just by a little bit |
| 21:54.27 | mindjuju | water color is still pretty close indicating similar depth |
| 21:54.49 | unum | is there any way to tell where the cursor is in an input box |
| 21:55.13 | mindjuju | there has to be unum, for RTE to work |
| 21:55.22 | mindjuju | the question is, how, that i'd have to look up |
| 21:55.30 | unum | what's RTE |
| 21:55.42 | mindjuju | rich text editor |
| 21:56.00 | mindjuju | an input field or textarea? |
| 21:57.20 | unum | input field |
| 21:57.35 | unum | I see one post that says select range properties |
| 21:58.16 | mgeary | afaik there is no reliable, x-plat/x-browser way to get that |
| 21:58.40 | *** join/#uphpu dataw0lf (n=jsimpson@adsl-75-14-203-206.dsl.renocs.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:58.40 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v dataw0lf] by ChanServ |
| 21:58.42 | mgeary | but if you're willing to be browser-specific, you can probably get some solutions |
| 22:02.40 | wps | anyone have recommendations for naming conventions for functions in their own files? |
| 22:02.46 | unum | I am willing to be browser specific |
| 22:02.52 | wps | is class.unique_name.inc standard for classes? |
| 22:02.59 | wps | how about func.unique_name.inc ? |
| 22:03.12 | mgeary | don't use .inc |
| 22:03.16 | mgeary | use .inc.php if you have to |
| 22:03.18 | mgeary | but not .inc |
| 22:03.26 | unum | http://javascript.nwbox.com/cursor_position/ <- they do it really well |
| 22:03.29 | mgeary | unless you like sharing your sourcecode with the world |
| 22:04.13 | wps | good call, mgeary |
| 22:04.28 | wps | what about the class or func prefix? any opinions? |
| 22:05.13 | mgeary | i just put my class files in a "classes" directory |
| 22:05.20 | mgeary | and name them "Class_Name.php" |
| 22:07.24 | wps | can someone try and explain twitter to me? |
| 22:07.26 | wps | I don't get it |
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| 22:07.47 | wps | is it like a mini blog? where you just post every few minutes/hours about what you're doing? |
| 22:09.14 | *** join/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net) |
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| 22:11.13 | _psychic_ | twitter is like IM status messages on steroids |
| 22:11.18 | _psychic_ | some people really dig it |
| 22:11.27 | _psychic_ | most will tell you its a waste of time though, including people who like it :) |
| 22:11.34 | influx^^ | Yes. |
| 22:11.50 | wps | I don't understand why anyone would want to read all of that |
| 22:11.58 | wps | who cares what people are doing minute-by-minute |
| 22:12.34 | wps | and even if someone was interested, I wouldn't want anyone to know what I was doing minute-by-minute |
| 22:12.45 | _psychic_ | then its not for you |
| 22:12.58 | wps | don't people worry about security? |
| 22:13.00 | wps | stalkers? |
| 22:13.13 | wps | if the world knows where you are and exactly what you are doing? |
| 22:13.22 | timinator | wps: this is where we realize that we are no longer young enough to "get it" |
| 22:13.30 | wps | aparently |
| 22:13.38 | _psychic_ | wps: most people aren't twittering stuff like their addresses and phone number |
| 22:13.41 | _psychic_ | its like |
| 22:13.44 | _psychic_ | "working on a presentation" |
| 22:13.52 | _psychic_ | not |
| 22:13.52 | wps | twitter… facebook… myspace… I must be old |
| 22:13.59 | timinator | same |
| 22:14.01 | influx^^ | "Note to self: Never drink Half & Half straight again." |
| 22:14.05 | wps | here an example I stumbled across: |
| 22:14.06 | wps | http://twitter.com/prettywhenyacry |
| 22:14.07 | _psychic_ | "come kill me I'm defenseless at 400 W 400 S" |
| 22:14.08 | timinator | duh |
| 22:14.12 | wps | :) |
| 22:14.14 | wps | "bored" |
| 22:14.18 | wps | "heading to work" |
| 22:14.26 | wps | "heading to post office" |
| 22:14.28 | _psychic_ | do you use an IM? |
| 22:14.29 | wps | who cares? |
| 22:14.29 | timinator | scratching **** |
| 22:14.46 | wps | _psychic_: yeah |
| 22:16.32 | _psychic_ | it's just a log of status messages |
| 22:16.50 | _psychic_ | I suppose if you're IM friends are all bored people, their twitters would be too |
| 22:16.51 | wps | hmm… I've used IM for a decade and have never set a custom away message |
| 22:17.12 | PoeticIntensity | holy cow, people must be bored in this world. |
| 22:17.22 | PoeticIntensity | reading a text message log? |
| 22:17.25 | PoeticIntensity | freak. |
| 22:17.30 | wps | that's what I'm saying |
| 22:17.32 | PoeticIntensity | maybe I *am* old. |
| 22:17.37 | wps | I'm only 27 |
| 22:17.44 | wps | am I really that uncool? |
| 22:17.51 | PoeticIntensity | that's quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever seen. |
| 22:17.57 | PoeticIntensity | and apparently, people are using it. |
| 22:18.06 | Utah_Dave | hey, can SATA drives be hotplugged? right into the motherboard? |
| 22:18.09 | PoeticIntensity | and I'm 5 years older than you, wps. |
| 22:18.19 | PoeticIntensity | Utah_Dave, if you have your kernel configured to handle it, yet. |
| 22:18.22 | PoeticIntensity | er.. yes. |
| 22:18.44 | Utah_Dave | how about with WinXP? |
| 22:18.49 | PoeticIntensity | *no* idea. |
| 22:18.55 | PoeticIntensity | probably not, would be my guess. |
| 22:18.57 | Utah_Dave | OK, I'm not going to risk it |
| 22:19.14 | PoeticIntensity | because heaven forbid a "normal person" wanted to plug in another hard drive while his computer was still on. |
| 22:20.08 | PoeticIntensity | "Oh.... I need a new Hard drive.... Hmm.... this plug looks like it's the same.... *pzzzt!*" |
| 22:20.32 | brasto | Utah_Dave - no, don't do it |
| 22:20.55 | PoeticIntensity | LOL |
| 22:20.57 | PoeticIntensity | http://twitter.com/tw/search/users?q=I%27m+a+loser%21 |
| 22:21.03 | PoeticIntensity | how'd ya like your name to be in THAT list? |
| 22:21.40 | wps | who picks their own handle of "scrabblewench"? |
| 22:21.45 | PoeticIntensity | ROFL |
| 22:22.11 | PoeticIntensity | and then has the guff to post her own photo on it! |
| 22:22.31 | PoeticIntensity | oh man.... today should have been Monday. |
| 22:22.40 | PoeticIntensity | nah.. nevermind..... |
| 22:23.23 | PoeticIntensity | _psychic_, it's probably because we're too old to be considered "cool" anymore... |
| 22:23.30 | PoeticIntensity | so we've gotta find consolation somehow! |
| 22:23.40 | _psychic_ | old is the new cool |
| 22:23.57 | _psychic_ | making fun of whippersnappers is the not exactly the zenith of coolness |
| 22:24.06 | _psychic_ | :) |
| 22:24.39 | PoeticIntensity | ah c'mon, _psychic_ there's just something that's *needing* to be made fun of, if your alias is "scrabblewench" and you come up in a search list of "I'm a loser!".... |
| 22:24.42 | wps | that's a great quote |
| 22:25.10 | PoeticIntensity | darnit, you're right _psychic_ |
| 22:25.21 | _psychic_ | I'm not a twitter user, consequently. |
| 22:25.22 | PoeticIntensity | making fun of people isn't cool. |
| 22:25.29 | _psychic_ | I can see how it might be kinda cool though. |
| 22:25.41 | wps | s/is/his/ |
| 22:25.46 | _psychic_ | At work, IM statuses are a way of perpetuating inside jokes and making snide remarks. |
| 22:25.58 | _psychic_ | If you've never used em, you'd be confused with twitter. |
| 22:26.12 | PoeticIntensity | I'm *completely* confused with twitter. |
| 22:26.16 | wps | just the name makes me uncomfortable |
| 22:26.32 | _psychic_ | yep, you're both old. |
| 22:26.33 | _psychic_ | sorry. |
| 22:26.38 | _psychic_ | it's official. |
| 22:26.42 | PoeticIntensity | no need to apologize for our age... |
| 22:26.46 | PoeticIntensity | you'll be here soon enough.. ;-) |
| 22:26.46 | wps | "twitter," "my space," "face book" |
| 22:26.55 | _psychic_ | age has nothing to do with being old. :) |
| 22:26.56 | wps | they all sound of personal privacy invasion |
| 22:27.06 | PoeticIntensity | aahh.... |
| 22:27.25 | PoeticIntensity | ok.... |
| 22:27.28 | PoeticIntensity | PHP question. |
| 22:27.30 | PoeticIntensity | wait... |
| 22:27.33 | PoeticIntensity | I already answered it. |
| 22:27.34 | PoeticIntensity | sorry. |
| 22:27.35 | PoeticIntensity | :) |
| 22:27.35 | Utah_Dave | I agree with wps. I'm always shocked at what everyone puts on their myspace pages. |
| 22:27.38 | beandog | I think you can hotplug sata |
| 22:27.43 | beandog | Im not sure if youd want to or not |
| 22:27.57 | PoeticIntensity | I *know* in Linux, if it can be done, it's because the kernel is set to accept it. |
| 22:27.58 | beandog | I think id rely more on hotplug than hot unplug |
| 22:28.00 | Utah_Dave | My wife throws pictures up there of everyone she ever takes pictures of. Same with my sister -in-law |
| 22:28.00 | thebigdog | i would not do it |
| 22:28.31 | PoeticIntensity | thebigdog, I wouldn't do it on a production box, but it'd be fun to see if it's possible.... |
| 22:28.40 | beandog | I remember hotplugging some ISA devices on my 286 |
| 22:28.45 | PoeticIntensity | with data you don't care about. |
| 22:28.46 | beandog | That didnt work too well in 1985. |
| 22:28.50 | PoeticIntensity | LOL |
| 22:29.04 | PoeticIntensity | did it spontaneously combust? |
| 22:29.10 | thebigdog | i dont think it works too good now unless you have a controller that can deal with it |
| 22:29.13 | beandog | I remember it beeped REALLY loud |
| 22:31.08 | beandog | scrabblewench? |
| 22:31.28 | Utah_Dave | I had a test server running on my desk once. A small server with an external scsi raid |
| 22:31.45 | PoeticIntensity | brasto, what client you use? |
| 22:31.53 | Utah_Dave | The scsi raid got disconnected from the power, and apache kept serving files |
| 22:31.55 | PoeticIntensity | I couldn't imagine using IRC without auto-complete. |
| 22:32.09 | _psychic_ | It's important for quick larting. |
| 22:32.16 | wps | colloquy++ |
| 22:32.20 | _psychic_ | ~lart PoeticIntensity |
| 22:32.20 | jbot | beats PoeticIntensity severely about the head and shoulders with a rubber chicken |
| 22:32.25 | _psychic_ | ~lart wps |
| 22:32.25 | jbot | tries to shut wps up |
| 22:32.29 | PoeticIntensity | ~lart _psychic_ |
| 22:32.29 | jbot | stamps _psychic_ on the forehead with the official Troll marker |
| 22:32.32 | _psychic_ | Case in point. |
| 22:32.50 | beandog | it certainly has added to our productivity |
| 22:34.34 | unum | I can't believe I've managed to write something as complicated as I have using ajax, php and postgresql |
| 22:34.47 | unum | two years ago I new nothing about any of them |
| 22:34.48 | thebigdog | Utah_Dave, if you are using a raid that should be the case though in theory |
| 22:34.54 | brasto | I use Pidgin because it's one client for all protocols |
| 22:34.55 | unum | a year ago I barely new anything |
| 22:35.03 | _psychic_ | unum: congrats |
| 22:35.10 | orsonj | I haven't been able to get pidgin to work with irc |
| 22:35.13 | _psychic_ | postres? yuck |
| 22:35.21 | thebigdog | ~slap _psychic_ |
| 22:35.22 | jbot | ACTION slaps _psychic_, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 22:35.26 | _psychic_ | haha |
| 22:35.27 | Utah_Dave | thebigdog: but the whole raid lost power. So there wasn't a spinning hard drive anywhere |
| 22:35.30 | beandog | heh |
| 22:35.39 | _psychic_ | I couldn't even get my snarky remark out before you bit on that one thebigdog |
| 22:35.51 | thebigdog | oh yeah |
| 22:35.55 | thebigdog | i have a filter for tha |
| 22:35.56 | thebigdog | that |
| 22:36.24 | _psychic_ | It accounts for misspellings too, apparently. |
| 22:36.46 | thebigdog | anything wtih post |
| 22:37.03 | orsonj | and a bottle of lotion for my poor nose. |
| 22:37.10 | thebigdog | haha |
| 22:37.29 | thebigdog | pgsql rocks my little world |
| 22:38.56 | _psychic_ | is it less or more often used than mysql, do you think? |
| 22:39.15 | thebigdog | less than mysql for sure |
| 22:39.27 | thebigdog | cause of the hosting companies that mysql works with |
| 22:39.46 | _psychic_ | so you view it as the Windows of the rdbms market |
| 22:39.46 | thebigdog | the mysql corp does a good job marketing and getting it out in the user community |
| 22:39.52 | thebigdog | no not really |
| 22:40.01 | thebigdog | just a simplier database |
| 22:40.17 | thebigdog | i have come to enjoy the stability and feature set that is pgsql |
| 22:40.39 | thebigdog | both have their place in my opinion |
| 22:41.00 | thebigdog | if im doing a website then i will probably use mysql over postgresql |
| 22:41.05 | _psychic_ | thebigdog: when's the best time for pg? |
| 22:41.12 | thebigdog | however, for a complex web app i will use pgsql |
| 22:41.19 | _psychic_ | y |
| 22:41.20 | _psychic_ | ? |
| 22:41.43 | thebigdog | i tend to really use the relations, views, stored procs and functions alot with pgsql |
| 22:41.59 | thebigdog | now peps will say that mysql has them now |
| 22:42.01 | unum | I have a table that is being dynamically updated and sometimes even if no changes are made the columns will shift |
| 22:42.02 | thebigdog | sure it does |
| 22:42.08 | _psychic_ | right... |
| 22:42.15 | thebigdog | however, pgsql has had them vfor over 3 major version |
| 22:42.18 | _psychic_ | and most of things I like to keep application-side. |
| 22:42.22 | thebigdog | they are proven and work great |
| 22:42.28 | thebigdog | same here |
| 22:42.35 | thebigdog | so i have used them for years on the pgsql side |
| 22:42.43 | thebigdog | the mysql side is not as robust imho |
| 22:42.53 | _psychic_ | I see |
| 22:43.05 | thebigdog | eventually im sure it will be |
| 22:43.15 | PoeticIntensity | one of the major reasons I switched to pgsql is probably a completely moot point... but... |
| 22:43.19 | thebigdog | i also use some advanced features of pgsql like postgis |
| 22:43.20 | PoeticIntensity | pgsql has their own db engine. |
| 22:43.33 | PoeticIntensity | MySQL has MyISAM, innodb, sleepycat, etc... |
| 22:43.51 | thebigdog | for me pgsql is very similar to oracle too...which i have used on a large scale |
| 22:43.55 | mindjuju | timinator, when you say you're scratching, does that mean scratch like an itch, or scratching like an LP |
| 22:44.04 | PoeticIntensity | and most of the good engines for MySQL are owned by a competing db system. |
| 22:44.06 | timinator | LOL |
| 22:44.14 | thebigdog | PoeticIntensity, that is very true |
| 22:44.24 | thebigdog | i dont like messing with engines...i should have it all in one |
| 22:44.28 | timinator | I was simply giving an up-to-the-minute play-by-play |
| 22:44.36 | thebigdog | i dont want too look up pros and cons of each |
| 22:44.44 | PoeticIntensity | right.... |
| 22:44.50 | PoeticIntensity | it just got me kinda jittery... |
| 22:44.50 | timinator | :) |
| 22:45.00 | thebigdog | i know that for me innodb is what i like to use...however, with 10m + records i start to see issues |
| 22:45.03 | PoeticIntensity | what if the owner of innodb and sleepcat decide to pull the plug on MySQL? |
| 22:45.17 | PoeticIntensity | (probably a moot point, but still...) |
| 22:45.22 | wps | timinator: keep your hands on the keyboard |
| 22:45.28 | timinator | LOL |
| 22:45.34 | PoeticIntensity | and I'm still a pgsql n00b... |
| 22:45.40 | timinator | this is why I don't use twitter |
| 22:45.40 | PoeticIntensity | so far, I love it. |
| 22:45.51 | thebigdog | i do like pl/pgsql thought it rocks |
| 22:45.59 | PoeticIntensity | and I'm scared to death of it. |
| 22:46.00 | PoeticIntensity | :) |
| 22:46.04 | thebigdog | i have dons some cool stuff with it |
| 22:46.24 | Utah_Dave | I've tried using MySQL views and stored procedures. |
| 22:46.39 | PoeticIntensity | what experience have you had with it? |
| 22:46.41 | Utah_Dave | They're a pain in the behind to use and maintain |
| 22:46.45 | PoeticIntensity | good to know. |
| 22:47.00 | _psychic_ | Utah_Dave: how so? |
| 22:47.16 | Utah_Dave | Reading about the new features they're working on, I think it won't be so hard in a few versions |
| 22:47.23 | Utah_Dave | You can't edit a stored procedure. |
| 22:47.24 | mgeary | i just did a mysql sproc |
| 22:47.30 | Utah_Dave | You have to delete it and recreate it |
| 22:47.33 | beandog | buh |
| 22:47.34 | beandog | lame. |
| 22:47.34 | mgeary | true |
| 22:47.38 | PoeticIntensity | ouch. |
| 22:47.47 | PoeticIntensity | hopefully you get it right the first time... :) |
| 22:47.54 | Utah_Dave | the main stored proc we created was on my coworker's computer. |
| 22:48.03 | beandog | PoeticIntensity, sleepycat == berkdb, which was already dropped anyway |
| 22:48.10 | Utah_Dave | I couldn't pull the stored proc off the server in a usable format to edit |
| 22:48.14 | PoeticIntensity | really? When did they drop it? |
| 22:48.17 | beandog | 5 |
| 22:48.27 | PoeticIntensity | hrm... I did not know that. |
| 22:48.28 | Utah_Dave | I had to get on his computer be able to see what he had |
| 22:49.07 | timinator | I have a few tables that are MyISAM.... what problems would I see if I simply switch the type to innodb? |
| 22:49.29 | PoeticIntensity | IMO, MyISAM is best for small tables. |
| 22:49.42 | PoeticIntensity | it's extremely quick, with a kick-butt text-indexing option. |
| 22:50.05 | PoeticIntensity | but if it gets big, it'll get really slow... and that's where innodb comes in handy. |
| 22:50.06 | timinator | small meaning........ |
| 22:50.14 | timinator | >1M records? |
| 22:50.18 | timinator | oops |
| 22:50.21 | timinator | <1M |
| 22:50.21 | PoeticIntensity | like... less than ..... yeah... 1M |
| 22:50.34 | PoeticIntensity | I'd probably be more likely to say less than 500K |
| 22:50.55 | PoeticIntensity | MySQL was originally built for small websites.... |
| 22:50.58 | PoeticIntensity | small and fast. |
| 22:50.59 | timinator | A few of these have surpassed that # |
| 22:51.01 | PoeticIntensity | light on features. |
| 22:51.13 | timinator | one being >800K |
| 22:51.24 | PoeticIntensity | I'd use innodb.... what do you guys think? |
| 22:51.42 | thebigdog | im not a big fan of innodb engine |
| 22:51.50 | PoeticIntensity | he doesn't have many alternatives, though... |
| 22:51.59 | wps | 9 minutes |
| 22:52.02 | thebigdog | nope not really |
| 22:52.17 | PoeticIntensity | I'd use innodb for that many rows, timinator |
| 22:53.00 | timinator | thx |
| 22:53.08 | beandog | Look at my.cnf if youre worried about optimization, too |
| 22:53.24 | beandog | For a really small site, you can dramatically cut down on the performance hit mysql creates |
| 22:53.38 | wps | jtaber-- for not trimming |
| 22:54.07 | brasto | ~strive somedude |
| 22:54.07 | jbot | ACTION rips brasto's head off |
| 22:54.14 | brasto | hey! :) |
| 22:54.26 | wps | strive? |
| 22:55.05 | brasto | wps, yep, tensai defined it in #utah - i thought i'd test it here |
| 22:55.28 | wps | what does that word mean (used in this context)? |
| 22:55.44 | timinator | gotta run... thanks for your help guys |
| 22:55.47 | timinator | late |
| 22:58.09 | brasto | wps, it has no bearing in this conversation, sorry for the confusion |
| 22:58.23 | wps | no worries |
| 22:58.28 | wps | was just curious |
| 22:58.55 | brasto | honestly, i was curious myself why it was defined that way... |
| 23:05.43 | *** part/#uphpu brasto (n=brasto@out.lnxi.com) |
| 23:06.19 | wps | I'm splitting a ~3,000 line file of functions up into separate files |
| 23:06.33 | wps | the way this was built is crazy… loading all of these functions with every page load |
| 23:06.39 | wps | instead of only the ones needed |
| 23:08.10 | tierra | that's not really much when compared to what some popular PHP scripts load with every request... think phpBB, phpMyAdmin, etc |
| 23:08.36 | wps | it's not an app though |
| 23:08.38 | wps | it's a website |
| 23:08.43 | wps | that needs to be lean and fast |
| 23:09.20 | wps | including the file has got to be faster than loading all of the functions |
| 23:09.44 | wps | and even if it's not, it's easier to maintain… using dynamic functions |
| 23:11.30 | dataw0lf | loading that many functions is inconsequential |
| 23:11.47 | dataw0lf | in terms of execution |
| 23:11.54 | wps | yeah? |
| 23:11.59 | dataw0lf | yea |
| 23:12.14 | mindjuju | dataw0lf, i'll tell you what is inconsequential, the ability to destroy a planet, next to the power of the Force |
| 23:12.16 | dataw0lf | I mean, certainly not good by any sort of design standard |
| 23:12.35 | dataw0lf | but as far as performance goes, it's negilible. |
| 23:12.40 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: so true! |
| 23:12.48 | dataw0lf | so what you're saying is PHP is the death star |
| 23:12.54 | dataw0lf | and Python is the Force |
| 23:12.59 | dataw0lf | just trying to figure out your analogy here |
| 23:13.12 | wps | what about just the raw time to parse the page? |
| 23:13.38 | dataw0lf | wps: next to nothing |
| 23:13.58 | mindjuju | i actually took the beginner's course of Python at the UTOS conference and installed python on my lap. looks pretty cool |
| 23:14.08 | dataw0lf | unless you had something along the lines of 1000 decent sized functions |
| 23:14.23 | wps | the dynamic function approach is much more scalable though |
| 23:14.33 | wps | especially in regards to the sanity of the developer |
| 23:14.42 | dataw0lf | what do you mean by 'dynamic function approach' ? |
| 23:15.09 | wps | $function_name(); |
| 23:15.21 | dataw0lf | meh |
| 23:15.32 | Utah_Dave | mindjuju: I wrote a sweet Python script that parsed several directories of csv file and compiled them into one file!! It rocked |
| 23:15.36 | dataw0lf | there's more overhead to that probably |
| 23:16.04 | wps | instead of all of these functions being in one massive include file, I am moving them all out to individual files and then will include the file and dynamically call the function inside only when needed |
| 23:16.20 | mindjuju | @ utah_dave , python seemed pretty easy to follow, i'm going to pull a book and start cooking to see how it goes |
| 23:16.38 | Utah_Dave | cool. |
| 23:16.42 | mindjuju | i want to rewrite my web services in python because i've heard that it offers high availability, performance |
| 23:17.10 | Utah_Dave | well, I'm heading home. Have a good one, everybody |
| 23:17.14 | *** part/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 23:18.44 | influx^^ | high availability? |
| 23:28.06 | dataw0lf | anyone know how to export a simplexml object out to a plain string? |
| 23:28.56 | dataw0lf | simple xpath('/') or something? |
| 23:30.28 | fungus | serialize() ...? |
| 23:30.56 | dataw0lf | asXML(), I think, actually |
| 23:34.22 | dataw0lf | yar |
| 23:34.23 | dataw0lf | word |
| 23:49.18 | bradym | ugh i hate ie... got some javascript that works fine in ff and ie6, but partially craps out in ie7 |
| 23:56.59 | mgeary | "King of the who?" |
| 23:57.07 | mgeary | "King of the Britains" |
| 23:57.18 | mgeary | "who're the Britains?" |
| 23:57.19 | mindjuju | who are the Britains? |
| 23:57.27 | mgeary | "We all are, and i am your King" |
| 23:57.37 | mgeary | "Well i didn't vote for you" |
| 23:57.38 | mindjuju | Well, I didn't vote for you |
| 23:57.40 | dataw0lf | I believe it's "Britons" |
| 23:58.03 | mgeary | yeah, you're right. my bad |
| 23:58.09 | mindjuju | Well then, how did you become king then? |
| 23:58.30 | mgeary | "And the Lady of the Lake held aloft Excalibur..." |
| 23:59.00 | mindjuju | Strange Ladies in lakes in no basis for a system of government |
| 23:59.11 | mindjuju | Supreme executive power must be derived by a mandate from the masses |
| 23:59.12 | mgeary | *tossing out swords* |
| 23:59.19 | mindjuju | oh yeah! |
| 23:59.30 | mindjuju | my memory sux |
| 23:59.31 | mgeary | ~mindjuju++ |
