| 00:17.26 | mgeary | well dang |
| 00:17.47 | mgeary | i've finally found a css issue where Safari and Mozilla differ, dang it |
| 00:18.04 | beandog | Ive found a few of those |
| 00:18.09 | beandog | Safaris KHTML build is old. |
| 00:18.15 | mgeary | this is Safari B3 |
| 00:19.19 | mgeary | here's what i'm doing: |
| 00:19.47 | mgeary | i've got a div that can be "rejected". when it is, a semi-transparent div gets its display turned to "inline" from "none" |
| 00:20.09 | mgeary | it's got position:absolute, so it covers up the div that was rejected |
| 00:20.33 | mgeary | works just ducky in FF, but in Safari, it somehow bumps down and messes up the <td> that it's in |
| 00:20.34 | mgeary | :( |
| 00:20.43 | beandog | poops |
| 00:22.34 | mgeary | well anyway |
| 00:22.36 | mgeary | later |
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| 00:44.16 | swb | I'm having trouble setting up php syntax highlighting with .phps |
| 00:44.28 | swb | anyone around who has experience w/ .phps troubles? |
| 00:47.13 | bradym | swb: you have "AddType application/x-httpd-php-source .phps" in your .htaccess or httpd.conf? |
| 00:47.32 | swb | .htaccess on a shared server |
| 00:47.39 | swb | no access to httpd.conf |
| 00:47.55 | bradym | do other addType directives work? |
| 00:48.04 | swb | but I believe the AddType line IS in the httpd.conf |
| 00:48.11 | swb | let me try adding a non-default one |
| 00:58.33 | swb | as a test, I added AddType application/x-httpd-php .asdf, but it doesn't work |
| 00:58.43 | swb | works on my local wamp testing env |
| 00:59.15 | swb | so, my theory is that it doesn't work because, on my shared host, php is running as cgi |
| 00:59.38 | swb | but I can't find any authoritative site stating that to backup my theory |
| 00:59.49 | swb | I think that's what it is though |
| 01:31.25 | bradym | that or they've apache setup not to allow AddType directives in .htaccess files |
| 01:31.42 | swb | exit |
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| 13:30.16 | Utah_Dave | a back flip? |
| 13:39.59 | jsmith | No... SELECT foo FROM some_table ORDER BY some_column NULLS LAST; |
| 13:42.43 | jsmith | Or, to be more specific... SELECT foo, bar, region FROM some_table ORDER BY (CASE WHEN region = 'Total' THEN NULL ELSE region END) ASC NULLS LAST; |
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| 13:42.53 | jsmith | Make sense?' |
| 13:51.07 | timinator | perfect sense |
| 13:51.09 | timinator | :) |
| 13:51.12 | timinator | morning all |
| 14:10.25 | Utah_Dave | jsmith: cool |
| 14:10.44 | jsmith | Utah_Dave: Yeah, you know it's gonna be a good day when you find gems like that before 8:00am |
| 14:11.03 | Utah_Dave | yep |
| 14:11.36 | Utah_Dave | I just found a sweet little ruby script that easily converts videos to the Ipod mp4 format |
| 14:11.39 | Utah_Dave | without all the fuss |
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| 14:40.56 | thebigdog | ~wave at everyone |
| 14:40.57 | jbot | Bye, at everyone |
| 14:41.12 | jsmith | ~thewave |
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| 15:06.16 | mgeary | anyone here familiar with the DOM Builder aspect of scriptaculous? |
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| 16:10.06 | beandog | PoeticIntensity, ping |
| 16:10.15 | SunSparc | PI is away |
| 16:10.22 | beandog | noooooooooooo |
| 16:10.27 | SunSparc | :) |
| 16:10.36 | beandog | bueno, gotta runzor |
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| 16:36.34 | beandog | herlo, imagemagick? |
| 16:36.52 | herlo | beandog: does it actually convert it to a vector? |
| 16:36.56 | timinator | imagemagick does that?!?!?! |
| 16:36.58 | herlo | beandog: and how can I tel? |
| 16:37.00 | beandog | I doubt it. |
| 16:37.04 | SunSparc | I do not think you can do that |
| 16:37.07 | herlo | beandog: that's what I need |
| 16:37.12 | SunSparc | If it does that would be incredible |
| 16:37.19 | timinator | Freehand had a conversion tool |
| 16:37.29 | beandog | I need to convert an icon to an animated gif |
| 16:37.37 | beandog | you know whats really fun |
| 16:37.43 | SunSparc | Taking a bitmap to a vector is pretty much impossible. |
| 16:37.45 | beandog | mpeg -> animated gif |
| 16:37.47 | beandog | :D |
| 16:38.05 | herlo | SunSparc: how do companies do it then? |
| 16:38.13 | timinator | SunSparc..... I used to do it all the time |
| 16:38.17 | herlo | SunSparc: I'm being charged $30 to do just that |
| 16:38.28 | SunSparc | Not enough money |
| 16:38.30 | SunSparc | :) |
| 16:38.31 | timinator | $30 is cheap |
| 16:38.32 | herlo | timinator: oh, I see your msg |
| 16:38.44 | herlo | timinator: I know but I doubt I'm getting the art back |
| 16:38.50 | herlo | timinator: its for the bags for the UTOSC |
| 16:38.58 | SunSparc | timinator: was the result an actual vector or just a bitmap in a vector file? |
| 16:39.10 | timinator | an actual vector file |
| 16:39.16 | timinator | .eps |
| 16:39.22 | timinator | no bmp in it at all |
| 16:39.38 | timinator | rather, nothing rastered in it at all |
| 16:39.53 | herlo | timinator: but you can put a bmp in a vector I've discovered |
| 16:40.00 | SunSparc | Right, but how did it vectorize the bitmap? Did it actually analyze the bitmap and add the millions of vector points? |
| 16:40.01 | herlo | er eps |
| 16:40.10 | herlo | SunSparc: I don't believe it did |
| 16:40.17 | timinator | yes, but that's an embed feature... not a conversion |
| 16:40.46 | herlo | timinator: I thought there was something to it... |
| 16:40.52 | timinator | nope... it would create a vector based on your settings.... how accurate you wanted it to be |
| 16:40.53 | SunSparc | Right, that is the thing. You can imbed but an actual conversion is... well... impossible. |
| 16:41.06 | timinator | then you'd go in and make sure it worked well |
| 16:41.39 | timinator | but I'm not talking about embedding.... I'm talking about converting |
| 16:41.50 | SunSparc | I used to embed bitmaps in Flash and that would "vectorize" them, but they were never as good as an original vector image. |
| 16:42.07 | herlo | SunSparc: embedding dosn't make it a vector. I get that. So I guess I'll need to find some tutorials on how to do it or pay someone. Maybe they'll give me the eps. Are there any good vector tools that work on linux? I've got inkscape, will that work? |
| 16:44.59 | SunSparc | I don't know of any. But that does not mean there are not any. :) Graphics is not my expertise, so my knowledge of vectorizing may be outdated. |
| 16:45.14 | SunSparc | I just remember how it used to be |
| 16:46.06 | SunSparc | timinator: so your conversions would actually go in and add vector points? That is pretty cool. |
| 16:46.13 | timinator | yes |
| 16:46.24 | timinator | sorry.... having 4 conversations at once |
| 16:46.38 | SunSparc | hehe, that is what makes IRC fun. |
| 16:46.45 | timinator | so, you'd throw the raster file on a layer in freehand |
| 16:46.57 | timinator | then create a new layer on top |
| 16:47.23 | timinator | then flip to the vectorize tool.... and click and drag a box across the area you want converted |
| 16:47.56 | timinator | it'd take a sec and create a vector on the new layer based on what it saw on all other layers |
| 16:48.07 | timinator | and then you'd delete the raster layer |
| 16:48.21 | herlo | timinator: using what tool? |
| 16:48.22 | timinator | it wasn't an end all.... but it'd be a great starting point |
| 16:48.39 | timinator | 1 sec, I'll fire up my old copy of FH |
| 16:49.13 | timinator | SunSparc: yes, IRC rocks the house |
| 16:49.22 | SunSparc | ~irc++ |
| 16:51.17 | herlo | ~karma irc |
| 16:51.17 | jbot | irc has karma of 1 |
| 16:51.39 | herlo | timinator: FH? |
| 16:51.53 | timinator | FH==FreeHand |
| 16:51.56 | SunSparc | FH = FreeHand |
| 16:52.09 | SunSparc | :) |
| 16:52.10 | timinator | the tool is called a Trace Tool |
| 16:57.22 | herlo | timinator: cool |
| 16:57.43 | herlo | timinator: I just discovered that inkscape (which also has a windows version) can do "Trace Bitmap" |
| 16:58.39 | timinator | nic |
| 16:58.41 | timinator | nice |
| 16:59.19 | herlo | it doesn't quite do what I want though. |
| 16:59.35 | herlo | timinator: SunSparc thanks for the input guys |
| 16:59.43 | SunSparc | :) |
| 16:59.44 | timinator | np |
| 17:00.18 | herlo | btw, http://www.calivia.com/convert-a-bitmap-to-a-vector-drawing-using-the-gimp-and-inkscape is what I've found so far. Not step-by-step, but helpful nonetheless |
| 17:04.14 | thebigdog | inkscape rocks |
| 17:05.20 | thebigdog | herlo, i have done it once and it works really good |
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| 17:06.45 | thebigdog | fyi this issue was great http://www.linuxjournal.com/issue/159 |
| 17:06.53 | herlo | thebigdog: thx |
| 17:06.54 | timinator | Adobe had a tool a while back... think it was called Streamline, it worked well too |
| 17:07.06 | mgeary | ahh, good ol' Streamline |
| 17:07.07 | thebigdog | http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/9704 |
| 17:07.09 | herlo | thebigdog: I've got that issue sitting in my mag rack right now |
| 17:07.16 | thebigdog | it is nice |
| 17:07.43 | thebigdog | the dreamworks animation article was good to read too |
| 17:07.52 | herlo | thebigdog: yeah, read that one |
| 17:07.55 | thebigdog | nice to see opensource in the animation industry |
| 17:08.12 | herlo | thebigdog: it doesn't appear to cover how to *convert* from bmp to vector though, a shame |
| 17:08.59 | thebigdog | yeah i figured that out a while back |
| 17:08.59 | herlo | thebigdog: open source has been in the animation industry for year! |
| 17:08.59 | herlo | thebigdog: open source has been in the animation industry for years! |
| 17:09.00 | thebigdog | yeah i just never realized it |
| 17:09.00 | herlo | thebigdog: 8-> |
| 17:09.56 | thebigdog | in the new mag about the nokia handheld |
| 17:10.07 | thebigdog | i told my boss we need to create a device like that |
| 17:10.21 | herlo | thebigdog: sjansen of #utah has purchased one. he was drooling over my LJ yesterday |
| 17:10.38 | thebigdog | they look cool |
| 17:10.38 | herlo | it took 10 minutes to clean it up! |
| 17:10.44 | herlo | thebigdog: they do for sure |
| 17:10.51 | thebigdog | im disappointed that they dont do real phone calls with sim cards |
| 17:11.01 | thebigdog | if they did i would have one know |
| 17:11.04 | thebigdog | now |
| 17:12.05 | thebigdog | i should get my work to get me one |
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| 17:13.51 | herlo | thebigdog: its kinda big for a cell phone don'tya think? |
| 17:14.18 | thebigdog | yeah, but i want to make some phone calls |
| 17:14.26 | thebigdog | i dont want that and a cell phone |
| 17:14.57 | herlo | thebigdog: yeah, understand that. That's why I have the treo755p |
| 17:14.59 | herlo | :) |
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| 17:15.30 | justingiboney | Hello UPHPU |
| 17:16.26 | thebigdog | morning |
| 17:17.20 | justingiboney | not too busy in here either |
| 17:17.44 | thebigdog | not now |
| 17:18.57 | herlo | justingiboney: you just missed a good conv about converting bitmap to vector |
| 17:19.29 | thebigdog | and JL discussion |
| 17:19.35 | thebigdog | LJ sorry |
| 17:19.35 | justingiboney | interesting.... I wish the boss would have left earlier |
| 17:20.09 | herlo | http://xkcd.com/308/ |
| 17:23.11 | justingiboney | would it be possible to test a person knowledge of php, with multiple choice questions only? |
| 17:23.47 | mgeary | sure |
| 17:23.47 | thebigdog | sure |
| 17:24.03 | mgeary | i wrote a 150-question certification test on Director for BrainBench.com |
| 17:24.07 | mgeary | was hard work |
| 17:24.13 | thebigdog | in increase their chance of getting it right |
| 17:24.27 | mgeary | thebigdog: doesn't *have* to |
| 17:24.39 | mgeary | the hardest questions are: "which of the following is NOT...." |
| 17:24.48 | mgeary | because you have to disqualify ALL answers |
| 17:25.09 | thebigdog | true but statistically they have a greater chance of getting it right then a write in answer |
| 17:25.22 | mgeary | possibly so |
| 17:25.29 | mgeary | from a sheer randomness perspective :) |
| 17:25.36 | mgeary | but you can also be misleading in multi-choice |
| 17:25.45 | thebigdog | yes you can |
| 17:25.46 | mgeary | have answers that "seem" good |
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| 17:26.20 | mgeary | oops |
| 17:26.41 | mgeary | anyway, what you *wouldn't* want to have is, "what does a foreach loop do?" |
| 17:26.45 | justingiboney | would it be possible to collect a test created by the community and still have it be taken seriously |
| 17:26.59 | thebigdog | y |
| 17:27.15 | thebigdog | depends on what you are using it for |
| 17:27.17 | mgeary | justingiboney: well, the problem with that is that the answers would be too likely to leak out, imo, if the (whole) community collaborated to make it |
| 17:27.33 | mgeary | you'd have "insiders" who would leak |
| 17:28.23 | justingiboney | what if the questions were taken at random from a large collection of questions, so you couldn't possibly have all the answers, and have it timed so if they had a very long list, it wouldn't be possible to find all the answers in time |
| 17:28.41 | thebigdog | your best bet is to create a test that asks questions based on other answered questions |
| 17:29.04 | mgeary | yeah, but this is all a lot of work to go through for a free test... |
| 17:29.27 | thebigdog | yep...those are cert tests...that cost $$$ |
| 17:29.44 | justingiboney | ya, but I sure would like to see where I stand in my knowledge of PHP |
| 17:29.53 | mgeary | just ask us! |
| 17:29.55 | mgeary | you stink |
| 17:29.59 | mgeary | :P |
| 17:29.59 | thebigdog | haha |
| 17:29.59 | justingiboney | thanks |
| 17:30.10 | justingiboney | I took a shower last night though |
| 17:30.13 | mgeary | ~noogie justingiboney |
| 17:30.14 | jbot | ACTION puts justingiboney into a headlock and administers a mighty noogie, rubbing half of justingiboney's hair off! |
| 17:30.15 | thebigdog | justingiboney, brainbench |
| 17:30.25 | mgeary | i had a pretty positive experience with brainbench |
| 17:30.32 | justingiboney | hey I am already losing my hair |
| 17:30.46 | thebigdog | sorry |
| 17:31.28 | thebigdog | mgeary is too |
| 17:31.36 | thebigdog | you doesnt have the good family genes |
| 17:31.43 | thebigdog | s/you/he |
| 17:31.44 | justingiboney | I just don't want to pay for the test |
| 17:31.50 | mgeary | hey, i'm still doing okay |
| 17:31.57 | thebigdog | hah |
| 17:32.02 | mgeary | but the future doesn't look good, you're right |
| 17:32.36 | thebigdog | justingiboney, i can test you now |
| 17:32.55 | thebigdog | question 1: How can precisely one byte be read from a file, pointed by $fp? |
| 17:33.09 | thebigdog | a) fseek($fp, 1) |
| 17:33.16 | thebigdog | b) fgets($fp, 1) |
| 17:33.32 | thebigdog | c) fgetss($fp, 1) |
| 17:33.38 | mgeary | the problem is, that's not a great question. You could be a super programmer and never had to do that. Furthermore, 5 minutes on google would probably yield some promising answers |
| 17:33.39 | thebigdog | d) fgetc($fp) |
| 17:33.44 | thebigdog | e) all the above |
| 17:34.25 | justingiboney | I have no idea |
| 17:34.49 | mgeary | a better question might be, "the following 6 lines of code attempts to load a binary file and read one byte at offset <whatever>. In which line of code does the error lie?" |
| 17:35.02 | mgeary | and display the code as an image |
| 17:35.07 | mgeary | so they can't copy it into a compiler |
| 17:35.37 | mgeary | that kind of question is going to test several things about your php knowledge |
| 17:35.57 | mgeary | even if you haven't directly tried to read binary data before |
| 17:36.46 | thebigdog | herlo, sure |
| 17:36.58 | thebigdog | justingiboney, http://www.zend.com/store/education/certification/self-test.php?begin=1 |
| 17:37.02 | thebigdog | that is the one |
| 17:37.12 | thebigdog | if you get 5+ then you are doing pretty good |
| 17:38.10 | thebigdog | my problem with questions like those are that they are lang specific |
| 17:38.18 | thebigdog | i look more for concept specific |
| 17:38.36 | thebigdog | if you are doing webdev then focus questions on concepts of web development |
| 17:38.36 | herlo | :) |
| 17:39.25 | herlo | thebigdog: its 1.5mb, does that seem large? |
| 17:39.32 | thebigdog | oh yeah |
| 17:39.38 | thebigdog | for a logo |
| 17:40.05 | thebigdog | how big is the logo |
| 17:40.25 | mgeary | wonder what i missed. i guessed on the "isset" question |
| 17:42.14 | herlo | thebigdog: uh, not sure, can't remember |
| 17:42.42 | justingiboney | well, I am a loser.... 1 out of 8 |
| 17:42.55 | mgeary | ah, there we go. 8/8 |
| 17:42.56 | herlo | thebigdog: http://www.utosc.org/downloads/utosc_logo6.eps |
| 17:43.04 | herlo | thebigdog: up here it says 4.4MB |
| 17:43.10 | mgeary | i missed fgetc and "best way to run php4 + php5" |
| 17:43.26 | mgeary | though that last one could be debated |
| 17:47.57 | herlo | thebigdog: what do you think? |
| 17:48.20 | thebigdog | oh one sec...need to download it |
| 17:49.02 | jsmith | herlo: It's blurry |
| 17:49.17 | jsmith | herlo: It's also overly complex, if it's just an EPS file |
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| 17:49.33 | herlo | jsmith: true |
| 17:49.40 | herlo | jsmith: and its my first attempt |
| 17:49.56 | jsmith | herlo: What, you don't have the original vector art? |
| 17:50.17 | herlo | jsmith: I wish I knew more about converting things like that. I used inkscapes "trace bitmap" feature |
| 17:50.21 | herlo | jsmith: there is no such thing |
| 17:50.34 | herlo | jsmith: it was done as a psd bitmap apparently |
| 17:50.44 | jsmith | Ah, send me the psd then :-) |
| 17:50.47 | herlo | jsmith: but I'm not a graphic artist so I could be wrong |
| 17:51.15 | herlo | jsmith: did you get your confirmation email btw? |
| 17:51.42 | jsmith | herlo: About the flight? No, but the conf. number worked online, so I'm set :-) |
| 17:51.48 | herlo | jsmith: cool |
| 17:51.52 | jsmith | herlo: Send it to jsmith@digium.com |
| 17:51.55 | herlo | k, sending now |
| 18:00.54 | justingiboney | would this work as a skeleton for a examination site? http://forodeherbales.com/temporary/phpexamdetails.txt |
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| 18:05.35 | mgeary | justingiboney: well, you'd probably need several more tables... |
| 18:06.02 | mgeary | but that looks like a decent start |
| 18:10.01 | herlo | ~lart mgeary |
| 18:10.01 | jbot | shoots mgeary in his sleep |
| 18:10.21 | mgeary | ~airsupply herlo |
| 18:10.21 | jbot | ACTION takes herlo by the hand, hunkers down on one knee, gazes fondly into herlo's eyes, and croons, "'cause you're every woman in the world to meeeee...." |
| 18:10.26 | herlo | ~simpsons mgeary |
| 18:10.27 | jbot | ACTION sends mgeary chasing a rolling pink donut down the hill screaming, "its still good!, its still good!" |
| 18:10.44 | herlo | mgeary: that's a nice one, I'm just glad it doesn't apply :) |
| 18:11.04 | herlo | mgeary: you forgot dooooonuuut! |
| 18:11.11 | mgeary | herlo: yeah, we made that one for dataw0lf |
| 18:11.32 | herlo | mgeary: nice. I made the simpsons one recently because of the movie and a few episodes that stuck in my mind |
| 18:11.41 | mgeary | haven't seen it yet |
| 18:11.47 | herlo | mgeary: you are missing out! |
| 18:12.07 | herlo | spider-pig, spider-pig, does whatever a spider-pig does... |
| 18:14.20 | tierra | writing web apps has a few advantages over desktop apps, but one that I'm finding counts for a lot is that copy protection is nearly a mute point with web apps, though you are a little more vunerable since anyone knows where they can find your source code, it's just a matter of getting their hands on it |
| 18:14.39 | tierra | it's a tough trade-off |
| 18:15.30 | tierra | though really you could just write cgi-based C++ web apps, and only keep compiled versions on the production server(s) |
| 18:15.33 | tierra | hehe |
| 18:15.48 | herlo | tierra: s/mute/moot/g |
| 18:15.51 | tierra | but that never happens in practice |
| 18:15.57 | tierra | herlo: thanks |
| 18:16.07 | herlo | tierra: always willing to help a fellow misspeller |
| 18:17.26 | tierra | changing the subject again, if anyone is looking into trying out new issue tracking software for open source projects, I've just about finished up my modifications to Eventum for use with open source projects |
| 18:18.22 | tierra | herlo: it's hard to know who's cheating the system, and taking advantage of your gratitude |
| 18:19.00 | jsmith | tierra: Oh? |
| 18:19.15 | jsmith | tierra: What modifications would those be? |
| 18:20.50 | herlo | tierra: why does it matter? To be honest, you're worried about 2% of people. Most people would read the license and give back |
| 18:20.55 | tierra | jsmith: while I've loved what I saw from Eventum, it currently doesn't really have the ability to be configured for anonymous (non-registered) users to browse or search issues (well, it does, but that mode also opens up the ability to report new issues without registration) |
| 18:20.57 | herlo | this is my experience |
| 18:21.18 | tierra | jsmith: until now ;) |
| 18:21.53 | jsmith | tierra: Does it tie into SVN? (For example, can you say "Revision XYZ closes this bug"?) |
| 18:22.13 | tierra | I believe it does in fact have that ability |
| 18:22.14 | jsmith | tierra: Can it ensure that uploaded patches have been disclaimed? |
| 18:23.41 | tierra | Eventum was built by the MySQL-AB guys for use internally... it's very corporate-quality-oriented issue tracking software with many very nice features with email integration |
| 18:24.09 | tierra | you'll find stuff like being able to reply to an email notification about a new bug/patch will attach your reply to the issue |
| 18:24.47 | tierra | or being able to have users send a patch or bug report via email to a certain address that's checked periodically for automatically creating new issues in the tracker from them |
| 18:25.17 | tierra | you have a lot of control over what issues you recieve email notification on |
| 18:26.06 | tierra | it has some excellent searching capabilities with many options for drilling down based on any number of fields (including custom data fields) and even by dates |
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| 18:26.14 | tierra | saved searches... |
| 18:26.32 | tierra | statistic reports |
| 18:26.52 | tierra | round-robin issue assignments |
| 18:27.00 | tierra | issue reminders |
| 18:27.34 | tierra | editable categories, priorities, technical support categories... |
| 18:27.52 | tierra | editable statuses |
| 18:28.03 | tierra | resolutions |
| 18:28.12 | tierra | canned email responses |
| 18:28.56 | tierra | link filters (ability to add in custom regex / link information for automatic links to external souces based on text in reports) |
| 18:29.45 | tierra | anyway, I've found it to be some high-quality, now open source (thanks MySQL AB), software |
| 18:30.12 | tierra | and so I've taken the time myself to patch it up for use with open source projects |
| 18:31.12 | tierra | you can write in your own custom customer workflow backends if you want to tie the tracker in with your CRM software |
| 18:32.01 | tierra | I love preaching about Eventum... I've hated every other issue tracking software out there until I finally came across Eventum |
| 18:34.06 | tierra | Eventum is also the only tracker software I've found to be user-friendly as far as the interface goes which is awesome for how many features it has |
| 18:34.22 | tierra | usually more features == less user friendly, and more clouded |
| 18:34.27 | tierra | but not in this case |
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| 20:35.37 | PoeticIntensity | afternoon, swb . |
| 20:35.40 | PoeticIntensity | how's life? |
| 20:42.13 | thebigdog | i think some developer are beyond stupid |
| 20:43.35 | PoeticIntensity | I are think them same things. |
| 20:43.43 | bradym | amen to that |
| 20:43.52 | PoeticIntensity | hear hear! |
| 20:44.11 | drip | thebigdog: quit talking about me |
| 20:44.23 | thebigdog | i email this guy and say here is my IM info...IM me as soon as you get this info |
| 20:44.41 | thebigdog | he sends me back and email the next day..."hey, I'm here" |
| 20:44.47 | thebigdog | stupid person |
| 20:45.02 | drip | IM is cutting edge technology thebigdog |
| 20:45.13 | thebigdog | very |
| 20:45.42 | PoeticIntensity | not everyone can be as evolutionized as we are. |
| 20:45.49 | PoeticIntensity | cut em' some slack... |
| 20:45.50 | PoeticIntensity | :) |
| 20:45.58 | drip | set up a bbs for them. |
| 20:46.09 | PoeticIntensity | ahh.... bbs'es.... |
| 20:46.15 | PoeticIntensity | those were the good ol' days. |
| 20:49.14 | thebigdog | im just a killer developer i guess |
| 20:49.18 | thebigdog | ^5 drip |
| 21:04.00 | Utah_Dave | tierra: weren't you working on a svn web interface? |
| 21:06.30 | tierra | Utah_Dave: yeah, http://svnlogbrowser.org/ |
| 21:06.53 | tierra | I've been cleaning up some minor bugs, and finishing getting it ready for release |
| 21:09.56 | Utah_Dave | sweet |
| 21:11.37 | tierra | just finished setting up the issue tracker for the project... hence why I've been babbling about Eventum earlier |
| 21:11.40 | tierra | http://tracker.svnlogbrowser.org/list.php |
| 21:26.50 | PoeticIntensity | pgsql question, thebigdog .... ya got a sec? |
| 21:27.05 | PoeticIntensity | or anyone else.....? |
| 21:27.51 | PoeticIntensity | I've got two subselects within a query.... |
| 21:28.10 | PoeticIntensity | I'm aliasing those subselects (AS sub1).... |
| 21:28.33 | PoeticIntensity | I need to perform some mathematics on those aliases to form another column... |
| 21:30.28 | PoeticIntensity | doesn't wanna let me. |
| 21:31.36 | tierra | and you're qualifying the variables outside the subselect? |
| 21:31.42 | PoeticIntensity | yes. |
| 21:31.52 | tierra | what's it say? |
| 21:31.57 | PoeticIntensity | if by qualifying, you mean assigning them a name of sorts... |
| 21:32.09 | PoeticIntensity | like (SELECT foo FROM bar) AS foo1 |
| 21:32.20 | PoeticIntensity | the error I'm getting is: |
| 21:32.22 | tierra | like, ADD( sub1.my_var, other_table.value ) |
| 21:32.48 | PoeticIntensity | not sure, tierra .... |
| 21:33.13 | PoeticIntensity | I don't recognize that...... |
| 21:33.21 | PoeticIntensity | sorry for my n00ishness. |
| 21:33.28 | PoeticIntensity | n00bishness, even.. |
| 21:33.32 | PoeticIntensity | hold no.. .I'll paste the query. |
| 21:34.09 | tierra | you need to specify the table name when variables from two tables have columns of the same name, but some database engines require it either way... I'm not entirely familiar with pgsql though... well, not at all really |
| 21:34.12 | PoeticIntensity | http://rafb.net/p/CjnNTT81.html |
| 21:34.22 | PoeticIntensity | oh..... yeah... |
| 21:34.33 | PoeticIntensity | The tables are distinct... |
| 21:34.52 | tierra | ok, yeah, it was just a guess really |
| 21:35.01 | PoeticIntensity | Basically, I need to take the results from subqueries in lines 4 and 5, and divide them. |
| 21:35.05 | tierra | I hadn't seen your statement or table structure... hehe |
| 21:35.33 | PoeticIntensity | whoops... lines 5 and 6 |
| 21:35.40 | PoeticIntensity | I'm trying to do it in line 7 |
| 21:36.12 | tierra | is '||' shorthand for concat? |
| 21:36.19 | PoeticIntensity | yup. |
| 21:36.22 | tierra | interesting, I've never seen that |
| 21:36.28 | tierra | hehe |
| 21:36.32 | PoeticIntensity | it's the only way I know how to do that in pgsql. |
| 21:36.35 | PoeticIntensity | I used concat in mysql. |
| 21:36.38 | PoeticIntensity | psql didn't like it. |
| 21:38.15 | tierra | you may need to restructure this some... give me a minute to rewrite this |
| 21:38.25 | PoeticIntensity | thank you. |
| 21:38.26 | tierra | there's another way you can go about this |
| 21:38.38 | PoeticIntensity | also... this is only about half of what the query will ultimately be. |
| 21:38.51 | PoeticIntensity | and the sales table has 12million rows... |
| 21:38.58 | PoeticIntensity | I'm guessing I'm gonna have to create a temp-table of sorts... |
| 21:39.12 | PoeticIntensity | as the results of this query are gonna be put on the landing page of our sales reports. |
| 21:39.17 | tierra | maybe, yeah |
| 21:39.24 | PoeticIntensity | as it, it takes about 15 seconds to pull. |
| 21:41.27 | tierra | actually, this is a little more complex than I thought, I don't know if I can help here |
| 21:41.38 | PoeticIntensity | it's all good. |
| 21:41.44 | PoeticIntensity | I'm researching "views"... |
| 21:41.48 | PoeticIntensity | I think that may be able to help me. |
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| 21:48.28 | PoeticIntensity | yo beandog . |
| 21:48.37 | beandog | oy |
| 21:48.42 | PoeticIntensity | up for a pgsql question? |
| 21:48.49 | beandog | I guess so |
| 21:48.57 | PoeticIntensity | http://rafb.net/p/CjnNTT81.html |
| 21:49.02 | PoeticIntensity | how do I make line 7 work. :) |
| 21:49.03 | PoeticIntensity | ? |
| 21:49.19 | PoeticIntensity | I'm taking the aliases of lines 5 and 6, and trying to create a percentage out of them. |
| 21:50.20 | beandog | mmm, try setting them to variables? |
| 21:50.31 | beandog | select @foo = sum(... |
| 21:50.40 | PoeticIntensity | wow.... |
| 21:51.07 | beandog | yah |
| 21:51.13 | PoeticIntensity | the @ symbol? |
| 21:51.20 | beandog | I think so. thats how mssql was. |
| 21:51.33 | beandog | lemme try something. |
| 21:51.37 | PoeticIntensity | k |
| 21:52.14 | beandog | hmm, thats not the right syntax. |
| 21:52.48 | beandog | oh, they might only be available in functions. |
| 21:53.15 | PoeticIntensity | If I remember, you were (are) quite an advocate for views in PGSQL, right? |
| 21:53.59 | PoeticIntensity | I'm wondering if a view couldn't help me with this query... |
| 21:54.30 | unum | ldap_modify hangs when I try and change the password |
| 21:55.18 | beandog | yah |
| 21:55.49 | PoeticIntensity | I know a temp table would do the trick, for sure. |
| 21:55.50 | beandog | yah, it could |
| 21:55.54 | beandog | either one would work |
| 21:56.12 | PoeticIntensity | basically, I've got a table with 12 million rows (and growing)... |
| 21:56.30 | PoeticIntensity | which puts quite the strain on this web app I'm building which will be accessed hundreds of times a day. |
| 21:56.40 | PoeticIntensity | the data is only updated daily... |
| 21:56.44 | PoeticIntensity | so no need for real-time crud. |
| 21:57.04 | beandog | might wanna look into caching then |
| 21:57.20 | PoeticIntensity | hence - using the temp table as a db cache. |
| 21:57.28 | beandog | right. |
| 21:57.35 | beandog | lemme look at the q again. |
| 21:57.37 | PoeticIntensity | I don't understand views well enough to even know if they would help. |
| 21:57.48 | PoeticIntensity | (the sales table is the big one) |
| 21:57.57 | beandog | views are really helpful where you are doing joins |
| 21:58.14 | beandog | functions save you time on calcuations you have to do often |
| 21:58.18 | PoeticIntensity | You wouldn't happen to know of a web page that explains the concept behind a join, would ya? |
| 21:58.28 | PoeticIntensity | er... |
| 21:58.29 | PoeticIntensity | not join. |
| 21:58.30 | PoeticIntensity | view. |
| 21:58.43 | PoeticIntensity | the postgresql manual isn't very helpful... |
| 21:58.49 | beandog | ah hold on |
| 22:01.32 | thebigdog | PoeticIntensity, you still working on this pgsql query? |
| 22:01.43 | PoeticIntensity | sorta. |
| 22:01.52 | thebigdog | you need to do it as a function |
| 22:01.54 | PoeticIntensity | I'm just trying to understand more conceptual techniques in psql. |
| 22:01.57 | thebigdog | that will be the fastest way |
| 22:02.11 | PoeticIntensity | first off... |
| 22:02.32 | PoeticIntensity | is the fact that loading this query is taking around 15 seconds a bad thing? or is that normal? |
| 22:02.40 | PoeticIntensity | with the sales table being that big... |
| 22:03.33 | PoeticIntensity | as is, it's completely un-usable... |
| 22:03.57 | PoeticIntensity | I'm going to create another table to populate on a daily basis from which the landing page will be derived... |
| 22:03.58 | PoeticIntensity | so... |
| 22:04.05 | PoeticIntensity | instead of having a table with 12M rows, it'll have like... 100. |
| 22:04.20 | PoeticIntensity | just curious as to how others would attack this. |
| 22:04.33 | beandog | well you could make a view to pull out only the columns youre going to actually access |
| 22:04.35 | thebigdog | i would look at doing a stored function with a view |
| 22:04.37 | beandog | that would speed up query time |
| 22:05.07 | beandog | but thebigdog is right |
| 22:05.07 | PoeticIntensity | Ideally, I'd like to not use another table - so we could use the live data to manipulate the order, etc... |
| 22:05.12 | beandog | a function would really help things move along. |
| 22:05.22 | thebigdog | PoeticIntensity, stored function |
| 22:05.26 | PoeticIntensity | right. |
| 22:05.29 | beandog | since the computational cost of doing the work is already done |
| 22:05.49 | beandog | theyre really easy. |
| 22:06.06 | thebigdog | http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.1/static/plpgsql.html |
| 22:06.09 | PoeticIntensity | I suppose for you, they are. As for me - I hope you're right. :) |
| 22:06.20 | beandog | one nice thing about udfs is that you can do type casting, too. |
| 22:06.21 | PoeticIntensity | reading... |
| 22:06.23 | beandog | er |
| 22:06.25 | beandog | whats it called? |
| 22:06.32 | thebigdog | if you need to use cursors too |
| 22:06.37 | beandog | overloading. |
| 22:06.53 | beandog | anyway, you probably dont need that. |
| 22:08.10 | PoeticIntensity | I only have a minor (if any) concept of what a "view" is... |
| 22:08.21 | PoeticIntensity | and I've never used any db programming before... so... |
| 22:08.31 | thebigdog | i would work onthe function first |
| 22:08.33 | PoeticIntensity | I'll see what I can pack in today... |
| 22:08.37 | thebigdog | then determine if you need the view |
| 22:08.50 | PoeticIntensity | alright.... if ya don't mind me asking a few directional questions.. |
| 22:08.53 | thebigdog | views can sometimes hinder |
| 22:08.57 | thebigdog | k |
| 22:09.02 | PoeticIntensity | how can a function help me in this scenario? |
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| 22:09.16 | unum | ldap_modify hung my entire server |
| 22:09.24 | PoeticIntensity | what parts of the query can the function speed up? |
| 22:09.30 | thebigdog | PoeticIntensity, you can break it all up |
| 22:09.43 | thebigdog | break up the queries and then do the math |
| 22:09.47 | thebigdog | return result |
| 22:09.54 | PoeticIntensity | ah. |
| 22:09.55 | thebigdog | it's a function |
| 22:10.05 | thebigdog | plus you hvae direct access to the db for your queries |
| 22:10.10 | PoeticIntensity | I do. |
| 22:10.23 | PoeticIntensity | hrm... hrm... hrm.... |
| 22:10.26 | thebigdog | harder to troubleshoot though |
| 22:10.36 | PoeticIntensity | so.... |
| 22:10.38 | thebigdog | you can set variables |
| 22:10.42 | thebigdog | call other functions |
| 22:10.44 | thebigdog | etc |
| 22:10.47 | PoeticIntensity | wow. |
| 22:10.58 | PoeticIntensity | and all of this is ..... faster than doing it in php, I'm supposing. |
| 22:11.07 | beandog | Heres the short explanation of a view |
| 22:11.23 | thebigdog | PoeticIntensity, yes very fast |
| 22:11.24 | bradym | PoeticIntensity: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View_(database) |
| 22:11.28 | beandog | When you run a query, part of the "cost" of executing the query is doing the joins, finding the tables, etc. |
| 22:11.31 | beandog | then actually returning the data |
| 22:11.46 | beandog | A view takes everything that the database has to compute, and stores it |
| 22:11.48 | PoeticIntensity | so, thebigdog, for my dilemma, I'd run the sub-query on line 4 as its own query, and store the results for later processing. |
| 22:11.59 | beandog | So selecting from a view is faster |
| 22:12.01 | PoeticIntensity | same for 5 and 6. |
| 22:12.03 | thebigdog | PoeticIntensity, nope |
| 22:12.04 | beandog | They are really helpful on joins |
| 22:12.07 | PoeticIntensity | bah. |
| 22:12.15 | thebigdog | you would do this: select * from myfunction(); |
| 22:12.31 | thebigdog | function could take values |
| 22:12.41 | thebigdog | however if you know the values you can pass them in the function |
| 22:13.10 | thebigdog | i didnt see a where clause so you probably dont need any params to the function |
| 22:13.38 | PoeticIntensity | not for this one, anyway. |
| 22:14.22 | PoeticIntensity | ok... |
| 22:14.28 | PoeticIntensity | so... |
| 22:14.38 | PoeticIntensity | what would the function actually ... do? run the queries? |
| 22:14.47 | PoeticIntensity | man, I feel like a *COMPLETE* n00b. |
| 22:15.12 | thebigdog | yep the function can run the queries and do the logic/math and return yoru results |
| 22:15.28 | mgeary | i think a meeting on "more advanced db ops" would be great |
| 22:15.48 | PoeticIntensity | "hear hear", mgeary |
| 22:15.56 | thebigdog | PoeticIntensity, think of it as a funciton |
| 22:16.09 | thebigdog | you have all access to the database methods and functiosn |
| 22:16.12 | PoeticIntensity | functions, stored procs, triggers, foreign keys, constraints, etc... |
| 22:16.18 | thebigdog | and can query data and set it as variables |
| 22:16.20 | thebigdog | or results |
| 22:16.29 | PoeticIntensity | ok |
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| 22:17.06 | PoeticIntensity | thebigdog, one last question (you've been MOST helpful, BTW)... |
| 22:17.18 | thebigdog | k |
| 22:17.45 | PoeticIntensity | Would doing this as a function / breaking it up, bring the speed up to a level where it would be feasible to connect it directly to a web app? Keeping in mind the size of the sales db... |
| 22:18.06 | thebigdog | you bet |
| 22:18.17 | thebigdog | your web app would query it like i showed earlier |
| 22:18.25 | thebigdog | select * from myfunction(): |
| 22:18.37 | thebigdog | u just need to make sure to return the right results |
| 22:18.53 | thebigdog | you can pass in params to to help with anything you need |
| 22:18.59 | thebigdog | that would come from the application |
| 22:20.33 | PoeticIntensity | thebigdog, what would we have to do to get you to present on this stuff at a monthly meeting? |
| 22:21.00 | thebigdog | woman...lots of woman...oh sorry...nothing much |
| 22:21.04 | PoeticIntensity | LOL |
| 22:21.17 | PoeticIntensity | I personally would find it highly valuable. |
| 22:22.47 | thebigdog | PoeticIntensity, example for ya http://rafb.net/p/bvm4qp27.html |
| 22:23.16 | thebigdog | that has some good stuff |
| 22:23.26 | thebigdog | i call another function from this one |
| 22:23.31 | thebigdog | line 16 |
| 22:23.46 | thebigdog | this is a cool one i did for a report |
| 22:24.10 | thebigdog | that returns and array of bigints[] |
| 22:24.10 | PoeticIntensity | I'll get it... |
| 22:25.11 | mgeary | ~boggle thebigdog |
| 22:25.12 | jbot | ACTION stares in flabbergasted astonishment at thebigdog |
| 22:25.23 | PoeticIntensity | so... what... is the name of this function? |
| 22:26.11 | PoeticIntensity | get_all_child_orgs()... |
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| 22:29.15 | thebigdog | yeah i pasted it wrong |
| 22:30.07 | thebigdog | http://rafb.net/p/Uez1bD47.html |
| 22:30.34 | PoeticIntensity | ah |
| 22:30.37 | PoeticIntensity | k |
| 22:30.43 | PoeticIntensity | that makes a little more sense... :) |
| 22:30.46 | thebigdog | i personally like to break up my code into functions and then call them |
| 22:31.14 | thebigdog | since you are in a function it makes it easier to add and remove things by recompiling the function in the database |
| 22:31.27 | thebigdog | u can also do it all in transactions too |
| 22:31.41 | thebigdog | so you can have all your crud in one function |
| 22:31.55 | thebigdog | update, delete, insert |
| 22:31.55 | PoeticIntensity | transactions within the function? |
| 22:32.00 | thebigdog | oh yes |
| 22:32.02 | PoeticIntensity | wow. |
| 22:32.11 | thebigdog | and isolate them too |
| 22:32.21 | thebigdog | and you can do error handling too |
| 22:32.44 | PoeticIntensity | Don't get me wrong... I love MySQL and am very glad for the things it taught me... But holy COW, Postgres is...... .... I wish I would have learned PGSQL before MySQL... let's just say that. |
| 22:33.19 | thebigdog | also you can write functions in a couple langs oto |
| 22:33.24 | thebigdog | they have a php one too |
| 22:33.28 | thebigdog | never used it though |
| 22:33.37 | PoeticIntensity | what language is the one you pasted written in? |
| 22:33.37 | thebigdog | i think it is stupid personally |
| 22:33.46 | thebigdog | that is pl/pgsql |
| 22:33.47 | PoeticIntensity | is that pl/pgsql... |
| 22:33.48 | PoeticIntensity | ah. |
| 22:33.55 | thebigdog | you have pl/tcl |
| 22:33.58 | thebigdog | pl/python |
| 22:34.00 | thebigdog | pl/java |
| 22:34.03 | thebigdog | pl/php |
| 22:34.10 | thebigdog | and c |
| 22:34.10 | mgeary | pl/squeak |
| 22:34.18 | PoeticIntensity | wow. |
| 22:34.18 | thebigdog | c functions rock for speed |
| 22:34.32 | thebigdog | i use alot of the postgis stuff and they do theirs in c |
| 22:35.10 | thebigdog | i gotta run but will be on later tonight |
| 22:35.15 | PoeticIntensity | well... since I already know PHP........ |
| 22:35.19 | PoeticIntensity | which one would you suggest I learn? |
| 22:35.22 | thebigdog | you can email me if you need specific |
| 22:35.31 | thebigdog | pgsql |
| 22:35.32 | PoeticIntensity | k |
| 22:35.37 | PoeticIntensity | thanks again for your help thebigdog .... |
| 22:35.40 | thebigdog | you can do them in sql too |
| 22:35.45 | thebigdog | which is really nice |
| 22:36.08 | PoeticIntensity | thanks for your help, too, beandog ... |
| 22:46.21 | beandog | yahp |
| 22:57.42 | mgeary | quick poll. i met someone who didn't know what signed/unsigned meant wrt an integer field. Don't mean to embarrass anyone here, but does anyone here *not* know what that means? (trying to gauge the knowledge of this someone i met) |
| 22:58.48 | SunSparc | You might be more results from polling the mailing list. |
| 22:58.53 | mgeary | nah |
| 22:58.58 | mgeary | just curious is all. don't really care |
| 22:59.39 | SunSparc | From what I understand signed/unsigned usually consists of whether or not the integer will be able to be a negative integer. |
| 22:59.46 | tierra | unsigned means the last bit isn't used to indicate negative/positive |
| 22:59.55 | tierra | which means a larger positive value range |
| 23:00.16 | mgeary | well yeah. again, i was looking to see if a lot of people *didn't* know what it meant. |
| 23:00.31 | mgeary | i figured it was fairly common knowledge. like knowing what a db index is |
| 23:01.00 | SunSparc | So far, not one is fessing up. but probably we are the only ones paying attention right now. |
| 23:01.06 | mgeary | heh |
| 23:01.46 | tierra | sorry, I misread your message, kinda gave it away then |
| 23:01.49 | SunSparc | Looks like we ticked wps off enough to make him leave. |
| 23:02.15 | timinator | later guys.... I'm out |
| 23:02.31 | PelaoFeliz | signed/unsigned is a little less common knowledge than DB indexes, methinks |
| 23:02.34 | PelaoFeliz | ...but not much |
| 23:02.46 | beandog | mgeary, I dont think many people even bother with it |
| 23:02.56 | beandog | I think its a silly feature. |
| 23:03.13 | SunSparc | Yeah, why did this come up mgeary? |
| 23:03.15 | beandog | plus, only mysql has it I think. |
| 23:03.23 | beandog | he's trying to rat out the n00bs |
| 23:03.29 | beandog | ~noobinator mgeary |
| 23:03.46 | SunSparc | :) |
| 23:04.45 | *** part/#uphpu PelaoFeliz (n=PelaoFel@67.108.236.230) |
| 23:05.24 | mgeary | yeah, trying to expose ignorance. that's my quest ;) |
| 23:06.05 | mgeary | FTR, sqlite also uses signed/unsigned, i believe |
| 23:07.39 | beandog | really? hmm |
| 23:07.44 | beandog | well sqlite only has two data types anyway |
| 23:07.45 | mgeary | thought so |
| 23:07.48 | beandog | integer, and whatever. |
| 23:07.49 | beandog | :) |
| 23:07.52 | mgeary | ah, no, you're right |
| 23:07.57 | mgeary | i was thinking of another clientside db |
| 23:10.32 | SunSparc | :) |
| 23:10.49 | mgeary | heh |
| 23:11.21 | SunSparc | How very accurate. |
| 23:18.55 | mgeary | ;) |
| 23:21.04 | Supaplex|roaming | :p |
| 23:35.05 | SunSparc | Would you expect this to work: |
| 23:35.05 | SunSparc | while (current($ListOfNumbersAscending) < 5) { |
| 23:35.05 | SunSparc | array_shift($ListOfNumbersAscending); |
| 23:35.05 | SunSparc | } |
| 23:35.37 | SunSparc | Because it does not. It just times out like it is an infinite loop. |
| 23:36.02 | mgeary | no |
| 23:36.07 | mgeary | array_shift doesn't change current |
| 23:36.35 | SunSparc | Why? It removes the first key/value pair. |
| 23:36.51 | SunSparc | Then current can no longer be that first key/value pair, yes? |
| 23:36.58 | mgeary | i suppose |
| 23:37.19 | SunSparc | I mean, that is the theory I am using, but so far it is not panning out. |
| 23:37.31 | mgeary | what is it you want to do? |
| 23:38.06 | SunSparc | Well, I want to remove the first X number of keys from an array based on a given varible. |
| 23:38.21 | mgeary | just the keys? |
| 23:38.28 | SunSparc | Well, key/value |
| 23:38.30 | mgeary | ah |
| 23:38.36 | SunSparc | The whole element |
| 23:38.36 | mgeary | why not use slice? |
| 23:40.00 | mgeary | (array_slice, you know) |
| 23:40.14 | SunSparc | yep, reading |
| 23:40.16 | mgeary | k |
| 23:40.53 | SunSparc | Nice |
| 23:40.56 | SunSparc | I like it! |
| 23:40.59 | mgeary | :) |
| 23:41.05 | SunSparc | Thanks mgeary |
| 23:41.08 | mgeary | yep |
| 23:41.09 | SunSparc | ~mgeary++ |
| 23:41.19 | SunSparc | You have earned yourself a karma point for the day. |
| 23:41.25 | mgeary | whew |
| 23:41.28 | SunSparc | lol |
| 23:57.34 | SunSparc | Good night all! |
| 23:57.39 | mgeary | me too |
| 23:57.40 | *** part/#uphpu mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 23:58.02 | *** join/#uphpu justingiboney (n=justin@ACC0B568.ipt.aol.com) |
| 23:58.06 | justingiboney | good afternoon |