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| 04:19.17 | herlo | mindjuju: yeah! |
| 04:19.47 | herlo | mindjuju: hey, thought I'd check in with you...see how things are going and ask you to look at a couple things I wrote that will be posted this week about UTOSC... |
| 04:28.15 | mindjuju | @ herlo , i've got to run by walmart real fast and then head home and let the dog out, but i'll be online in... |
| 04:28.25 | mindjuju | let's say an hour or so |
| 04:28.36 | mindjuju | hour and 15 min, fo sho |
| 04:28.42 | mindjuju | will you still be online then? |
| 04:30.27 | herlo | yeah |
| 04:30.36 | herlo | mindjuju: perfect. I should be up til about 1am |
| 04:30.40 | herlo | mindjuju: thanks |
| 06:15.03 | herlo | mindjuju: ping, you around? |
| 06:59.34 | mindjuju | herlo , you still around? |
| 07:00.10 | mindjuju | yo herlo! |
| 07:00.55 | mindjuju | dude, i'll be up for a bit, i fell asleep watching family guy eating dinner |
| 07:10.49 | herlo | hi |
| 07:10.54 | herlo | mindjuju: I'm here |
| 07:11.32 | herlo | for Utah Open Source Conference |
| 07:11.55 | mindjuju | k |
| 07:12.06 | mindjuju | that's cool! |
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| 14:49.58 | timinator | morning |
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| 15:06.13 | orsonj | morning |
| 15:06.16 | beandog | hola |
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| 15:15.39 | beandog | mmmmm |
| 15:15.41 | beandog | beth quist++ |
| 15:16.48 | SunSparc_ | Guten morgen! |
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| 15:18.14 | PoeticIntensity | gooood morning! |
| 15:22.25 | mgeary | ~yow |
| 15:25.29 | SunSparc_ | The Smiths++ |
| 15:25.47 | mgeary | jup |
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| 15:31.39 | SunSparc | Meow! |
| 15:32.09 | orsonj | what was that? |
| 15:32.17 | SunSparc | Hairball |
| 15:32.37 | orsonj | no, the weird thing irc spat out: 09:34 -SunSparc:#UPHPU- meow |
| 15:32.54 | SunSparc | Oh, a notice. :) |
| 15:33.14 | orsonj | ah, hadn't encountered it yet |
| 15:33.16 | SunSparc | Who is the owner/operator/admin of this channel? |
| 15:37.24 | SunSparc | :) |
| 15:37.40 | orsonj | ~praise the ops |
| 15:37.41 | jbot | All hail the ops! |
| 15:53.09 | wps | what do you need, SunSparc ? |
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| 16:00.28 | _psychic_ | who is Justin Giboney? |
| 16:00.33 | SunSparc | Would anyone in here mind if I added another bot to the channel? |
| 16:01.06 | _psychic_ | what in the world is all this price fixing talk about? |
| 16:01.13 | _psychic_ | you gotta be kidding |
| 16:01.15 | wps | no kidding |
| 16:01.19 | wps | I don't understand what he is getting at |
| 16:01.23 | wps | or even really what his point is |
| 16:01.40 | wps | I don't really have an interest in another bot, SunSparc… but I'm not against it |
| 16:03.39 | SunSparc | wps: ok |
| 16:04.59 | mgeary | SunSparc: what's the bot do? |
| 16:05.19 | _psychic_ | maybe one written in *php* ? |
| 16:06.26 | herlo | ~lart mgeary |
| 16:06.26 | jbot | hauls mgeary up by the scruff of the neck and spanks him until he waddles |
| 16:06.35 | herlo | mgeary: ^^ that's what a bot can do |
| 16:06.36 | mgeary | what the...? |
| 16:06.43 | mgeary | well yeah |
| 16:06.48 | herlo | mgeary: you asked |
| 16:06.50 | mgeary | ~nerdschool herlo |
| 16:06.50 | jbot | ACTION chains herlo to a molded-fiberglass all-in-one desk/chair, fills his backpack with sci-fi and fantasy novels, and plants him in Norm Bangerter's Elementary Physics class for re-indoctrination. |
| 16:06.51 | mgeary | no |
| 16:06.52 | herlo | lol |
| 16:06.57 | mgeary | i asked what THE bot does |
| 16:07.02 | mgeary | :) |
| 16:07.05 | SunSparc | Well, the one I have is an eggdrop that I built about 10 years ago and was wanting to dust off. It just did silly things like gives pizza to people. But what I really want to do is pull it out so that I can learn from it and possibly take it apart and build a new one from scratch, using, as _psychic_ said, PHP. :) |
| 16:07.09 | herlo | ~simpsons mgeary |
| 16:07.09 | jbot | ACTION sends mgeary chasing a rolling pink donut down the hill screaming, "its still good!, its still good!" |
| 16:07.27 | herlo | mgeary: and our bot is A bot |
| 16:07.36 | herlo | thus THE bot is A bot |
| 16:07.38 | herlo | :) |
| 16:07.44 | _psychic_ | SunSparc: I modded a php bot that runs in #cakephp |
| 16:07.48 | herlo | herlo ftw! |
| 16:07.52 | mgeary | ~dickcheny herlo |
| 16:07.59 | mgeary | darn |
| 16:08.00 | herlo | mgeary: learn how to spell |
| 16:08.03 | _psychic_ | *ey |
| 16:08.07 | mgeary | ~dickcheney herlo |
| 16:08.10 | herlo | ~dickcheney mgeary |
| 16:08.12 | mgeary | don't think there's one for that |
| 16:08.12 | SunSparc | _psychic_ really? Cool. |
| 16:08.19 | timinator | BRB Guys |
| 16:08.19 | mgeary | it'd be a goodun, though |
| 16:08.26 | herlo | ~ibot: tell mgeary to shut up |
| 16:08.38 | herlo | ibot: tell mgeary to shut up |
| 16:08.39 | mgeary | ~give herlo a j |
| 16:08.40 | jbot | ACTION gives a j to herlo |
| 16:09.00 | herlo | jbot: tell mgeary to shut up |
| 16:09.04 | _psychic_ | ~give mgeary a noogie |
| 16:09.04 | jbot | ACTION gives a noogie to mgeary |
| 16:09.12 | mgeary | ~noogie herlo |
| 16:09.13 | jbot | ACTION puts herlo into a headlock and administers a mighty noogie, rubbing half of herlo's hair off! |
| 16:09.18 | herlo | ~herlo mgeary |
| 16:09.18 | jbot | ACTION pokes mgeary with a sharp needle |
| 16:09.28 | mgeary | ~stevejobsify herlo |
| 16:09.29 | jbot | ACTION drags herlo by the scruff of the neck and plants him in front row center of the Moscone Center at the peak of Steve Jobs' keynote address until herlos eyes glaze over and he calms down |
| 16:10.02 | herlo | jbot: mgeary $1 is <action> $1 is held down whilst repeatedly beaten with the "what is a bot" stick |
| 16:10.02 | jbot | okay, herlo |
| 16:10.07 | herlo | ~mgeary mgeary |
| 16:10.08 | jbot | ACTION mgeary is held down whilst repeatedly beaten with the "what is a bot" stick |
| 16:10.12 | mgeary | hahaha |
| 16:10.17 | herlo | mgeary: you are welcome |
| 16:22.09 | wps | too much information |
| 16:26.39 | herlo | wps: not even |
| 16:27.22 | wps | knowing that you were off to disrobe was _way_ too much information for me |
| 16:29.48 | mgeary | ~stinky herlo |
| 16:31.04 | mgeary | ~stinky herlo |
| 16:31.05 | jbot | ACTION throws herlo into the shower and scrubs vigorously with Liquid Plumber and a wire brush. "Ewww, i am NOT cleaning the hair from the drain" |
| 16:31.31 | herlo | ~thank jbot |
| 16:31.31 | jbot | de rien, herlo |
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| 17:03.49 | mgeary | ~stinky thebigdog |
| 17:03.49 | jbot | ACTION throws thebigdog into the shower and scrubs vigorously with Liquid Plumber and a wire brush. "Ewww, i am NOT cleaning the hair from the drain" |
| 17:13.11 | thebigdog | ~melvin mgeary |
| 17:13.12 | jbot | ACTION pulls mgeary underwear up to the ceiling...and smiles |
| 17:13.54 | beandog | who has time to work with all these larts going around |
| 17:14.08 | SunSparc | ~lart beandog |
| 17:14.08 | jbot | takes a rusty axe and swings it violently, taking beandog's head off |
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| 17:14.52 | mgeary | ~melvin_oops beandog |
| 17:15.16 | mgeary | melvinoops beandog |
| 17:15.22 | mgeary | ~melvinoops beandog |
| 17:15.23 | jbot | ACTION reaches into beandog's pants to grab the waistband of beandog's Fruit of the Looms, but quickly withdraws it's hand, "ugh, hey everyone beandog is going commando today!" |
| 17:15.24 | mgeary | there we go |
| 17:15.57 | mgeary | jbot doesn't like underscores in actions, apparently |
| 17:15.57 | beandog | heh |
| 17:15.59 | mindjuju | oooo , that's nice! |
| 17:16.02 | beandog | ~commandeer mgeary |
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| 18:04.31 | beandog | so has anyone else seen die hard |
| 18:05.14 | beandog | if you take away the incredibly stupid computer irrealities, it's a good action flick. |
| 18:05.28 | dataw0lf | meh |
| 18:05.34 | beandog | like, why would they plant a virus if they already planted explosives |
| 18:05.37 | dataw0lf | and everything else completely and utterly unreal |
| 18:05.43 | beandog | O.o |
| 18:05.45 | dataw0lf | like bruce willis surfing on an f25 |
| 18:05.50 | beandog | heh |
| 18:05.54 | dataw0lf | I mean, seriously |
| 18:05.58 | beandog | that was great. |
| 18:06.02 | dataw0lf | the die hards were never 'super realistic action' movies |
| 18:06.04 | beandog | well wait a minute |
| 18:06.09 | dataw0lf | but they were at least somewhat plausible |
| 18:06.18 | beandog | dont you know an f25 is going to duck under a bridge that is collapsing to *shoot* someone? |
| 18:06.27 | dataw0lf | plus, it being rated PG-13 just killed all the awesomely witty things Willis says |
| 18:06.36 | dataw0lf | although |
| 18:06.37 | beandog | the second half was good |
| 18:06.40 | dataw0lf | the ending was pretty good |
| 18:06.44 | beandog | yah totally. |
| 18:06.46 | dataw0lf | and bruce willis's fight with that chick |
| 18:06.51 | beandog | that was pretty funny |
| 18:07.05 | Utah_Dave | I thought it was amazing that that asian chick could get hit by a van at 40 mph, get pinned against the wall, and then still be able to climb up cables to kick Bruce Willis in the head |
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| 18:07.27 | beandog | Utah_Dave: lol |
| 18:07.33 | dataw0lf | I found it amazing that a girl could kick bruce willis's butt, period |
| 18:07.36 | beandog | I gotta find me one of those |
| 18:08.29 | beandog | I'm excited for Bourne Whatever this weekend |
| 18:08.36 | beandog | looks not as good as the other two, but oh well. |
| 18:08.56 | dataw0lf | dude, I really want to see that |
| 18:09.01 | dataw0lf | the second one was better than the first |
| 18:09.06 | dataw0lf | the third one looks pretty decent |
| 18:09.12 | beandog | oh man |
| 18:09.15 | dataw0lf | bourne's knife fighting techniques are realistic |
| 18:09.16 | beandog | the 2nd one was awesome. |
| 18:09.28 | Utah_Dave | I'm going to watch the new bourne next week |
| 18:09.34 | beandog | me too |
| 18:09.39 | beandog | we should make it a geek movie night! |
| 18:11.28 | dataw0lf | http://www.tampabays10.com/news/local/article.aspx?storyid=60133 |
| 18:11.29 | dataw0lf | honestly |
| 18:11.41 | dataw0lf | how do you forget about your 22 month old baby for two hours |
| 18:11.46 | beandog | floriduh |
| 18:12.13 | dataw0lf | http://dnevnik.hr/naslovnica/vijesti/hrvatska/20070726_21921_61602.php |
| 18:12.16 | beandog | theres more ads than content on that page |
| 18:12.44 | mgeary | it is a compelling question, though. "Meteor pao pokraj Samobora?" |
| 18:12.53 | dataw0lf | just watch the video |
| 18:12.56 | dataw0lf | awesomest meteor evar |
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| 19:16.09 | orsonj | ok, so who knows croatian |
| 19:29.31 | mgeary | i would have thought hungarian |
| 19:33.18 | orsonj | ~wiki .hr |
| 19:33.40 | mgeary | interesting. wonder how that works out |
| 19:46.02 | orsonj | http://spaceweather.com/ top article (as of now) "SUPER-BOLIDE" |
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| 20:04.10 | PoeticIntensity | alright, CSS gurus.... |
| 20:04.28 | PoeticIntensity | how do I position something relatively, without pushing all the content below down the page? |
| 20:04.37 | PoeticIntensity | if I position something absolutely, it doesn't push anything... |
| 20:04.51 | PoeticIntensity | is there any way to accomplish that behavior, with relative positioning? |
| 20:05.04 | PoeticIntensity | apparently, in IE 7, it already behaves this way... |
| 20:05.11 | mgeary | position it absolutely within a relatively positioned container? |
| 20:05.23 | PoeticIntensity | in FF, however - the content is pushed down, regardless. |
| 20:05.54 | orsonj | kind of like how drop down menus work? |
| 20:06.26 | PoeticIntensity | mgeary, I believe that relative positioning of absolutely positioned items, equates to all relativity relative to what is positioned absolutely. |
| 20:06.40 | PoeticIntensity | er.... |
| 20:06.57 | PoeticIntensity | I tried that. didn't work. |
| 20:07.31 | PoeticIntensity | relatively positioning absolutely positioned items, are positioned relative only to absolutely positioned items. |
| 20:07.35 | PoeticIntensity | if that makes any sense... |
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| 20:08.12 | PoeticIntensity | orsonj, no... ... i'ts more like how content is pushed down the page as content above it is aggregated. |
| 20:08.29 | PoeticIntensity | I want to add an item without it affecting the content below it... |
| 20:08.51 | PoeticIntensity | however, this needs to be relatively positioned due to its repeating on the page. |
| 20:08.56 | *** join/#uphpu _psychic__ (n=_psychic@66.7.114.125) |
| 20:08.58 | PoeticIntensity | gah.... I'm not explaining myself well at all. |
| 20:09.36 | PoeticIntensity | is any of that making sense, mgeary ? |
| 20:09.43 | PoeticIntensity | hold on... |
| 20:09.45 | PoeticIntensity | I'll get an example. |
| 20:11.33 | PoeticIntensity | http://www.ilovemyjournal.com/ |
| 20:11.48 | PoeticIntensity | the 2nd entry down has the (poem) right below the title... |
| 20:12.03 | PoeticIntensity | that "(poem)" is pusing the actual entry down the page.... |
| 20:12.10 | PoeticIntensity | the (poem) is relatively positioned... |
| 20:12.18 | PoeticIntensity | with both "top" and "left" attributes... |
| 20:14.28 | mgeary | have you tried: "display: inline" ? |
| 20:15.01 | PoeticIntensity | ah... |
| 20:15.02 | PoeticIntensity | no |
| 20:15.09 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v _psychic_] by ChanServ |
| 20:15.09 | PoeticIntensity | brb |
| 20:15.47 | PoeticIntensity | no dice... |
| 20:15.55 | PoeticIntensity | I tried converting the div to a span as well... same result. |
| 20:16.11 | PoeticIntensity | which.... doesn't make an ounce of sense. |
| 20:18.07 | mgeary | :/ |
| 20:18.13 | PoeticIntensity | precisely. |
| 20:19.48 | PoeticIntensity | got it. |
| 20:19.56 | PoeticIntensity | place a span inside of a div already on the page. |
| 20:19.58 | PoeticIntensity | :) |
| 20:20.06 | PoeticIntensity | that way it doesn't push anything down. |
| 20:21.58 | orsonj | look at the pure css menu stuff. I think what you need to do is make the .entry_list positioned relative and then position the .type absolutely. |
| 20:22.46 | PoeticIntensity | orsonj, I tried that unfortunately... |
| 20:23.17 | PoeticIntensity | because there can be multiple poems on the same page, they can't have the same absolute position. |
| 20:23.24 | PoeticIntensity | they just overlapped each other on the page. |
| 20:23.42 | PoeticIntensity | the context of each fieldset was dissolved by the absolute positioning... |
| 20:23.52 | PoeticIntensity | at least... that's what happened when I tried it on this page. |
| 20:23.54 | PoeticIntensity | :-T |
| 20:24.36 | orsonj | no, if an absolutely positioned item is place _inside_ a relatively positioned item, the absolute positioned item uses the relatively positioned item as the base reference. |
| 20:25.02 | PoeticIntensity | then I must have been doing something wrong... |
| 20:25.11 | PoeticIntensity | becuase I expected that behavior.... but didn't get it. |
| 20:28.56 | PoeticIntensity | ah.... |
| 20:29.03 | PoeticIntensity | thanks orsonj, I figured out what I was doing. |
| 20:29.11 | PoeticIntensity | you are 100% right. |
| 20:32.59 | _psychic_ | anyone care to banter about development philosophy? |
| 20:33.08 | mgeary | always |
| 20:33.16 | _psychic_ | anyone have a process that's iterative? Lots of prototyping and stuff? |
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| 20:34.06 | mgeary | sort of. we generally do phases |
| 20:34.19 | _psychic_ | phases? |
| 20:34.31 | mgeary | well, we generally do: |
| 20:35.03 | mgeary | * wireframes (this is often skipped, depending on how well understood the requirements are) |
| 20:35.14 | _psychic_ | (which they never are, in my experience) |
| 20:35.20 | mgeary | * html "clickable" screens- these become templates for code |
| 20:36.00 | mgeary | * ORM (this also gets skipped sometimes) |
| 20:36.16 | mgeary | * creation of classes, generally concurrent with template programming |
| 20:36.27 | mgeary | but all that isn't really iterative |
| 20:36.41 | mgeary | well, except that you revisit various screens, i suppose |
| 20:36.52 | _psychic_ | prototype has saved my butt way too many times to count |
| 20:37.08 | _psychic_ | I'm trying to work it in to our process more |
| 20:37.11 | mgeary | you mean prototyping? or you mean the JS library? |
| 20:37.19 | _psychic_ | prototyping, sorry |
| 20:37.21 | mgeary | np |
| 20:37.23 | _psychic_ | iterative development |
| 20:37.41 | _psychic_ | but there's a tendency for clients to want to know exactly how much it is going to cost before we do a project |
| 20:37.57 | mgeary | agreed. i'm almost entirely to the belief that a written spec (like in Word) is useless |
| 20:38.09 | _psychic_ | "There is nothing functional about a functional spec." |
| 20:38.18 | mgeary | an ORM and a series of html templates is the best spec i've used |
| 20:38.27 | _psychic_ | right |
| 20:38.37 | _psychic_ | and those are best if you've interated a few times to get some |
| 20:39.15 | mgeary | yeah |
| 20:39.23 | mgeary | but another thing we try to do-- |
| 20:39.50 | mgeary | is, from any given spec, we try to identify the *smallest possible* application that could be built, and build that as Phase I. |
| 20:40.20 | _psychic_ | its the linux mantra |
| 20:40.24 | _psychic_ | release early and often |
| 20:40.29 | mgeary | invariably, as development proceeds, things come up that change the course, and by having the simplest app possible, we can more easily adapt to accommodate this new vision |
| 20:40.30 | _psychic_ | which I agree with too |
| 20:40.49 | mgeary | which isn't to say that the final app isn't quite complex |
| 20:41.18 | mgeary | but yeah, by releasing standalone/usable versions, you keep development saner |
| 20:41.43 | _psychic_ | and developERS more sane :) |
| 20:42.01 | _psychic_ | having something that works (on a minimal level) early on is very satisfying |
| 20:42.05 | mgeary | i hate monster specs. invariably the people writing them either don't really understand how the app should work, and/or cannot actually communicate that |
| 20:42.26 | _psychic_ | well you can't pretend to know how it works having never seen something in action |
| 20:42.32 | _psychic_ | that's why prototyping is so important |
| 20:42.35 | mgeary | agreed |
| 20:42.46 | _psychic_ | but the problem I'm coming up agains |
| 20:42.56 | _psychic_ | is that companies want a fixed number |
| 20:42.58 | mgeary | i'm also a big fan of mapping out Users and Activities |
| 20:43.00 | mgeary | well yeah |
| 20:43.07 | _psychic_ | which is retarded |
| 20:43.18 | _psychic_ | but I don't know how to couch that in manager-ese |
| 20:43.20 | _psychic_ | :) |
| 20:43.37 | mgeary | we usually do application development on a fixed-bid basis |
| 20:44.02 | _psychic_ | but doesn't that assume some sort of spec before you start? |
| 20:44.14 | mgeary | yeah, vicious cycle, eh? |
| 20:44.26 | mgeary | sometimes we'll charge for spec creation |
| 20:44.36 | mgeary | which, again, results in screens and an ORM |
| 20:44.49 | mgeary | though the screens might just be wireframes |
| 20:44.59 | dataw0lf | jeez, wow |
| 20:45.02 | dataw0lf | http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_110708.asp |
| 20:45.22 | _psychic_ | yeah but spec creation is retarded |
| 20:45.22 | _psychic_ | I wanna find a business reason for allowing good development practices (i.e. prototyping) |
| 20:46.32 | mgeary | here's a thought-- |
| 20:47.12 | mgeary | i wonder how clients would react when presented with the following approach: strictly hourly fees to produce the spec (ORM + screens), and a fixed-bid once those are done |
| 20:47.17 | mgeary | that seems reasonable to me |
| 20:47.21 | _psychic_ | that's what we usually like to do |
| 20:47.35 | _psychic_ | especially since the work done after ptying isn't throw-away |
| 20:47.41 | mgeary | right |
| 20:47.49 | _psychic_ | but some bigger companies want a fixed number before spending any money |
| 20:47.53 | _psychic_ | which I think is dumb |
| 20:48.12 | mgeary | well, give them a really big number, and tell them what assumptions it's based on |
| 20:48.42 | mgeary | and/or give them a ballpark, with a significant range, and tell them that you can narrow the range substantially once a hard spec is done |
| 20:49.08 | mgeary | but without some sort of spec, i'd *never* give a committed fixed-bid price |
| 20:51.07 | _psychic_ | I'm not sure that's the best solution though |
| 20:51.07 | _psychic_ | assume = ass + u and me |
| 20:51.18 | _psychic_ | I don't want to give a fixed price until after *prototyping* |
| 20:51.22 | _psychic_ | if you haven't done that, you have no idea what you're really making anyway |
| 20:52.30 | orsonj | PoeticIntensity: looks like you've about got it. |
| 20:52.33 | mgeary | assumptions are fine, as long as your bid is clearly contingent upon them being correct |
| 20:52.48 | mgeary | they often are NOT correct, but all that does is give you the chance to adjust your bid |
| 20:52.55 | mgeary | without taking crap |
| 20:53.43 | PoeticIntensity | orsonj, I've made a mess of things, for sure... ;-) |
| 20:53.47 | PoeticIntensity | but we're gettin' closer. |
| 20:54.03 | PoeticIntensity | (look at it in IE.... it's a disaster) |
| 20:54.56 | _psychic_ | mgeary: but an iterative process reduces risk to a minimum. You shouldn't have to make many assumptions if you've already gone the rounds. That's what I'm trying to build in. |
| 20:55.42 | mgeary | well, once you've got a spec, you shouldn't have to make *any* assumptions. but yeah, i hear you |
| 20:56.01 | _psychic_ | but specs come post-prototype, no? |
| 20:56.50 | mgeary | well, depends on what you're calling a prototype |
| 20:56.54 | SunSparc_ | Perhaps we need to makes come common definitions. |
| 20:57.02 | SunSparc_ | mgeary: what are specs |
| 20:57.03 | mgeary | like i say, for me, the best spec is an ORM and a series of screens |
| 20:57.13 | SunSparc_ | _psychic_: what is prototyping |
| 20:57.31 | SunSparc_ | In your own words. |
| 20:57.46 | mgeary | an ORM tells you how the data will interact with itself, and the screens tell you how the users will interact with the application |
| 20:58.18 | _psychic_ | for a website, a prototype is a work in progress - probably some screens that look like they do something the client wants |
| 20:58.19 | mgeary | and once you know those two things, what more do you need to know? :) |
| 20:58.21 | _psychic_ | you show them |
| 20:58.23 | _psychic_ | they change stuff |
| 20:58.26 | _psychic_ | you show em again |
| 20:58.41 | _psychic_ | once the client says its good |
| 20:58.43 | _psychic_ | then you spec it |
| 20:58.46 | mindjuju | interesting email from Darrin |
| 20:58.48 | _psychic_ | and build out the back end |
| 20:59.09 | _psychic_ | mindjuju: he's trying to fix prices for developers in Utah: stay far away |
| 20:59.18 | mindjuju | really? |
| 20:59.43 | mindjuju | i'll be honest, haven't been reading email thread, just been swamped with this web service, |
| 20:59.48 | mindjuju | but i have been skimming them |
| 20:59.52 | _psychic_ | soap? |
| 21:00.26 | mindjuju | yup |
| 21:01.12 | _psychic_ | mgeary: so once the client and you have actually worked on a few rounds of screens together, that's when I'd say you're both smart enough to spec something completely out |
| 21:01.12 | mindjuju | well, now the problem isn't so much web service as it is normalization |
| 21:01.12 | _psychic_ | soap is touchy |
| 21:01.12 | mgeary | _psychic_: you mean that's the point where you can build an ORM? |
| 21:01.37 | _psychic_ | mgeary: I suppose it depends on the complexity of the project - but ORM definition, and any other specifications |
| 21:02.05 | _psychic_ | mindjuju: there's quite a varied level of compatibility on soap clients on different platforms |
| 21:02.06 | mgeary | yeah, i'd say that seems reasonable |
| 21:02.26 | _psychic_ | I'm getting to the point where I'd say its the only way I'll do it. |
| 21:02.39 | _psychic_ | the problem is you can't give a fixed number until after you've prototyped |
| 21:02.55 | orsonj | PoeticIntensity: here's how I did it: http://tetratech.info/oddcss/absolute.html |
| 21:02.56 | _psychic_ | and people want the security of a fixed number sometimes |
| 21:03.00 | SunSparc_ | mgeary and _psychic_: Are you both talking about before you are hired or after you are hired to do a project? Or both? |
| 21:04.07 | PoeticIntensity | orsonj, that's beautiful... |
| 21:04.11 | PoeticIntensity | holy cow. |
| 21:04.28 | PoeticIntensity | identical in both IE and FF. |
| 21:04.34 | PoeticIntensity | amazing. |
| 21:04.38 | mgeary | SunSparc_: well, it'd have to be before, right? because you're often not "hired" until you've agreed on a price |
| 21:04.50 | orsonj | PoeticIntensity: feel free to steal it |
| 21:05.18 | orsonj | or look at how I did it anyway. |
| 21:05.34 | PoeticIntensity | "em"..... didn't know that metric existed. |
| 21:06.08 | SunSparc_ | I see companies who want a bid on their web site who just have no clue about what is involved in a web site and they do not take any efforts to plan it out and just want a number before they will even work with you to plan it out. |
| 21:06.08 | SunSparc_ | _psychic_: is that what you are talking about? |
| 21:06.10 | _psychic_ | um, just the process in general |
| 21:06.10 | _psychic_ | so both I suppose |
| 21:06.10 | _psychic_ | well, you're not often going to prototype something for someone who isn't paying you, though :) |
| 21:06.25 | _psychic_ | yeah kinda |
| 21:06.35 | _psychic_ | ~stab companies like that |
| 21:06.35 | jbot | ACTION runs at companies like that with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut. |
| 21:06.38 | mgeary | well, that's the point |
| 21:07.03 | mgeary | i think i'm going to try that with our next project-- get hourly for the spec and fixed for development |
| 21:07.10 | mgeary | that seems very fair |
| 21:07.20 | _psychic_ | fo sho |
| 21:07.46 | _psychic_ | mgeary: have you read "Getting Real" by 37 Signals? |
| 21:07.56 | mgeary | i've got it bookmarked, but haven't read it yet |
| 21:08.04 | _psychic_ | 'sgood. |
| 21:08.13 | mgeary | i've heard that |
| 21:08.46 | _psychic_ | some things I agree with |
| 21:08.49 | SunSparc_ | Perhaps you could require any prospective clients to take a basic knowledge exam to see how much they understand about what they are asking for. |
| 21:08.56 | _psychic_ | others seem a little extreme |
| 21:09.10 | _psychic_ | "I'm sorry, you're too stupid to be our client." |
| 21:09.15 | SunSparc_ | lol |
| 21:09.18 | SunSparc_ | Exactly! |
| 21:09.25 | mgeary | we've fired clients before |
| 21:09.54 | mgeary | it's way easy to lose money working for some people |
| 21:10.23 | SunSparc_ | _psychic_: Or more realistically, if they know nothing, have a document or web site or video that explains what a web site is and all that goes into making on, in order to help prepare them for what is involved. That would be a good thing to have on a web site. |
| 21:10.55 | SunSparc_ | Firing clients should be a skill in any developer's (or company's) toolbelt. Some just are not worth the time. |
| 21:11.00 | unum | I have found that people generally don't have a well thought out idea of what they want |
| 21:11.07 | unum | unless they have done some programming |
| 21:11.17 | SunSparc_ | unum: agreed |
| 21:12.36 | _psychic_ | SunSparc_: mgeary: totally agree |
| 21:13.07 | SunSparc_ | I think that one developer's or company's web site it would be quite handy to have a little demo of the process they can expect to go through with that developer or company. It could be informational as well as educational and perhaps weed out losers and encourage more well informed clients. |
| 21:13.53 | mgeary | SunSparc_: true, though some might argue that some of those processes and practices are what differentiate business A from biz B, and thus are things they'd rather not put out there for the competition to "borrow" |
| 21:15.01 | mgeary | we just need to have a "our company uses UPHPU-approved development processes" seal |
| 21:15.13 | orsonj | hear hear! |
| 21:15.25 | SunSparc_ | mgeary: That could be, but implementation is the real key to success. It does not matter how good your blueprint is, if you implement it wrong, then you get something you did not expect. |
| 21:15.35 | mgeary | certainly |
| 21:15.40 | mgeary | all important parts of a whole |
| 21:16.17 | SunSparc_ | mgeary: That sounds like a cool idea! Kind of like how JD Powers & Associates created a whole category of awards, by themselves and now many people use them. |
| 21:17.21 | SunSparc_ | Of course, that would mean that UPHPU would need a committee of approvers that followed a set list of guidelines. |
| 21:17.52 | SunSparc_ | Of course, if it made money, people could start getting paid to be in those roles. |
| 21:18.10 | mgeary | but if it makes $$, it becomes suspect |
| 21:18.14 | SunSparc_ | JD Powers does not give out awards in his free time for free. |
| 21:18.25 | mgeary | "pay us $X and we'll endorse you" |
| 21:18.48 | SunSparc_ | mgeary: No, that is not the revenue stream. |
| 21:18.56 | SunSparc_ | Or at least, is should not be. |
| 21:19.26 | SunSparc_ | It is from all the people who now pay JD Powers for their reviews. |
| 21:19.50 | SunSparc_ | It just so happens to benefit vendors. |
| 21:21.01 | beandog | kinda like the acadamy awards |
| 21:21.04 | beandog | academy? |
| 21:21.05 | beandog | meh. |
| 21:21.12 | SunSparc_ | Right |
| 21:29.01 | beandog | I think we should have annual #uphpu awards |
| 21:29.07 | beandog | I cant believe how awesome I am. |
| 21:29.20 | beandog | ~award beandog |
| 21:32.35 | *** join/#uphpu cole_joplin (n=Cole@c-67-166-64-239.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 21:36.42 | mgeary | ~cookie beandog |
| 21:37.13 | mgeary | uhhhh |
| 21:37.18 | mgeary | ~literal cookie |
| 21:37.19 | jbot | "cookie" is "<action>gives <who> a cookie" |
| 21:40.40 | SunSparc | ~cookie mgeary |
| 21:41.15 | SunSparc | ~cookie beandog |
| 21:41.23 | SunSparc | ~cookie SunSparc |
| 21:41.43 | SunSparc | ~cookie Chocolate Chip |
| 21:42.34 | SunSparc | jbot: give mgeary a macadamia nut cookie |
| 21:42.35 | jbot | ACTION gives a macadamia nut cookie to mgeary |
| 21:43.36 | SunSparc | jobt: give mindjuju a fortune cookie |
| 21:44.56 | SunSparc | jbot: give mindjuju a fortune cookie |
| 21:44.56 | jbot | ACTION gives a fortune cookie to mindjuju |
| 21:45.18 | SunSparc | :) |
| 21:50.37 | *** join/#uphpu josephscott (n=josephsc@71-32-203-117.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 21:58.43 | mgeary | ~give SunSparc a cookie |
| 21:58.44 | jbot | ACTION gives SunSparc a home-baked sugar cookie to cheer him up. |
| 22:00.33 | SunSparc | Mmmmmm, sugar cookies. Thanks. |
| 22:01.18 | thebigdog | if i have 3k laying around i will |
| 22:02.39 | dataw0lf | http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1185789792353&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull |
| 22:02.44 | dataw0lf | uh, shenanigans? |
| 22:02.44 | SunSparc | Life is so much better with a Mac. |
| 22:03.12 | dataw0lf | how does Bush get away with selling 20 billion dollars worth of arms to the primary terrorist nation? |
| 22:03.28 | jsmith | SunSparc: Sure, just as long as it's running Linux... |
| 22:04.57 | SunSparc | jsmith: I run Mac OSX, Windows XP, SuSE Linux, all on the same screen and switch between their programs as they co-exist peaceably. |
| 22:06.11 | jsmith | SunSparc: I run Linux (all on the same screen!) I reboot into OS X if I have to. |
| 22:06.51 | SunSparc | :) |
| 22:07.12 | dataw0lf | jsmith: boot into OS X if you have to? what, if there's a gay pride parade you're attending or something? |
| 22:07.40 | SunSparc | ~lart dataw0lf |
| 22:07.40 | jbot | accelerates a free AOL cd to 50,000 rpm and lets dataw0lf feel it |
| 22:07.43 | *** part/#uphpu mindjuju (n=mindjuju@65-121-75-195.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 22:08.32 | jsmith | dataw0lf: No, if I'm *required* to use Flash or something like that... |
| 22:09.10 | dataw0lf | flash works fine for me. |
| 22:10.16 | dataw0lf | heh |
| 22:10.23 | dataw0lf | you're digging yourself a hole, SunSparc! |
| 22:10.27 | SunSparc | hehe |
| 22:10.41 | SunSparc | <flameon> |
| 22:11.06 | jsmith | Oooh... Gentoo to SuSE... is that supposed to impress me? |
| 22:11.29 | SunSparc | Nice catch. |
| 22:11.31 | SunSparc | :) |
| 22:11.54 | SunSparc | SuSE, cause it was quicker to install. |
| 22:11.59 | dataw0lf | that's like going from a stock corolla with a bunch of body kits to a miyata |
| 22:12.31 | SunSparc | And then to a Ferrari. |
| 22:12.33 | jsmith | "I drive a Ford Taurus, because it was quick to buy" |
| 22:12.40 | SunSparc | lol |
| 22:13.07 | dataw0lf | please don't tell me you're calling OS X a ferrari |
| 22:13.18 | SunSparc | Bingo! |
| 22:13.29 | dataw0lf | Explain what's under OS X's hood, which makes it a ferrari |
| 22:13.36 | SunSparc | ~give dataw0lf a cookie |
| 22:13.37 | jbot | ACTION gives dataw0lf a home-baked sugar cookie to cheer him up. |
| 22:13.53 | SunSparc | dataw0lf: FreeBSD |
| 22:14.01 | dataw0lf | ... |
| 22:14.14 | dataw0lf | no, seriously |
| 22:14.49 | SunSparc | dataw0lf: Need I direct you to the "I'm a Mac" commercial section of the Apple site? |
| 22:15.15 | dataw0lf | OS X is based on Mach, and based on NEXTSTEP BSD |
| 22:15.17 | dataw0lf | try again |
| 22:15.28 | SunSparc | blah blah blah |
| 22:15.30 | SunSparc | :) |
| 22:15.42 | dataw0lf | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XNU |
| 22:17.12 | dataw0lf | ok, so I'll assume the Ferrari analogy just comes from the mindset of "UH, I THINK IT'S, UH, COOL!" |
| 22:18.03 | jsmith | dataw0lf: No, it's "See the pretty car! See the pretty windows! Who cares if there's no room to carry home the groceries..." |
| 22:18.23 | SunSparc | Sure, you can assume that. However, you are apparently not currently in a proper state of Zen, which you need in order to understand the simplicity and power of the Mac OS X. |
| 22:18.48 | dataw0lf | jsmith: hehe |
| 22:19.32 | mgeary | ~stevejobsify dataw0lf |
| 22:19.33 | jbot | ACTION drags dataw0lf by the scruff of the neck and plants him in front row center of the Moscone Center at the peak of Steve Jobs' keynote address until dataw0lfs eyes glaze over and he calms down |
| 22:19.33 | jsmith | SunSparc: Sorry... I don't spend my days clicking pretty buttons... I spend my time doing real work. |
| 22:19.36 | fungus | Ooh, I saw FreeBSD! |
| 22:19.53 | jsmith | SunSparc: And for me, nothing gets it done quicker than Linux. |
| 22:20.15 | SunSparc | jsmith: you apparently work harder than you need to in order to achieve the same results. :) |
| 22:20.43 | SunSparc | Some people like that. |
| 22:20.54 | PoeticIntensity | thanks a million, orsonj . I'm gonna hone the colors a bit, but.... you've helped me immensely. |
| 22:21.04 | jsmith | SunSparc: I'd compare my productivity to any Mac user's any day... I automagically get a 12% higher score just by having a right mouse button... and at least another 10 percent from being able to middle-click to paste. |
| 22:21.07 | dataw0lf | it's not 'harder' if it's second nature and you're accustomed to UNIX machines |
| 22:21.11 | timinator | SunSparc+++ |
| 22:21.17 | jsmith | dataw0lf: Amen, brother! |
| 22:21.42 | SunSparc | tim, thanks. :) |
| 22:22.19 | dataw0lf | and if using a UNIX machine is second nature, you're probably getting stuff done easier and faster than 99.9999% of people, including, but not limited to, OS X users |
| 22:22.21 | SunSparc | jsmith: I have a right mouse button and can middle-click to paste when I need to. |
| 22:22.38 | timinator | a Mac is powerful under the hood, and has an easy to use GUI..... Linux/Unix has one out of two |
| 22:22.54 | dataw0lf | GUIs slow me down for about 90% of tasks |
| 22:22.57 | SunSparc | Yes, and a Sexy body. |
| 22:23.03 | timinator | and a Sexy Body |
| 22:23.17 | timinator | I've always wanted one of those.... now I have one |
| 22:23.21 | timinator | :) |
| 22:23.29 | dataw0lf | if you're accustomed to a GUI, and it helps you, right on. I'm not. And I've never heard anyone who's magic at the CLI say that a GUI is NOT limiting when going back. |
| 22:23.31 | fungus | OSX has better hardware integration with the OS, Although Linux is getting better (See NetworkManager...) |
| 22:23.39 | SunSparc | An Apple computer is just a Unix/Linux system, in an amazingly beautiful body, with an amazingly beautiful and intuitive interface. |
| 22:23.54 | timinator | but a mac has a cli |
| 22:23.58 | jsmith | fungus: Actually, I've had more driver problems with OS X lately than with Linux... on Apple hardware, no less |
| 22:24.12 | jsmith | timinator: Have you actually tried to use it? |
| 22:24.16 | dataw0lf | OS X's shell? |
| 22:24.17 | timinator | so, when I need to hit the cli, I do..... otherwise I drag and drop |
| 22:24.18 | dataw0lf | are you kidding me? |
| 22:24.26 | jsmith | timinator: Even with iTerm, it's only barely useable |
| 22:24.29 | timinator | the sexy body? ....every day for 10+ hrs |
| 22:24.47 | jsmith | Terminal.app just plain makes me want to gnaw off my own left ear... |
| 22:24.50 | dataw0lf | maybe if you 'ls -l', and 'mv <file1> <file2>', and 'ps -ely', and that's it |
| 22:25.21 | fungus | Terminal.app is ok, not super great, but it gets you to the shell. |
| 22:25.34 | timinator | ok.... I'm not a big CLI guy.... |
| 22:25.55 | timinator | disregard those comments then |
| 22:26.00 | dataw0lf | right, I'm saying I am, and OS X is unworthy in regards to wizardry. |
| 22:26.13 | fungus | Comparing CLI between OSX and Linux is not a good idea. BSD/Linux will always win. |
| 22:26.17 | dataw0lf | or perhaps I'm getting older and just don't want to learn the horrible file structure and weird shell scripting |
| 22:26.52 | SunSparc | Then you do not deserve to enjoy a Mac. :) |
| 22:26.53 | timinator | no... you guys are probably right... I don't use the CLI much.... |
| 22:26.54 | fungus | I'm mostly on the fence. |
| 22:26.58 | unum | so I want to select some rows from a table but I only want to select the rows that have a certain column unique |
| 22:27.28 | unum | if I use unique it will select the first row with that value and I don't want any rows |
| 22:27.30 | fungus | For me, OSX handles hardware better (sleep, suspend, wifi, etc) |
| 22:27.30 | SunSparc | unum: ditinct |
| 22:27.31 | unum | does that make sense |
| 22:27.33 | SunSparc | distinct |
| 22:27.43 | timinator | fungus: fo sho |
| 22:28.00 | unum | distinct selects the first row with as specfic value and not the rest right? |
| 22:28.19 | fungus | But Linux/BSD has better, more open, tools more easily ready. |
| 22:28.38 | dataw0lf | Solaris ftw! |
| 22:28.56 | fungus | Solaris?? eww |
| 22:29.07 | jsmith | unum: Yes, that's the idea... |
| 22:29.17 | dataw0lf | IOS ftw! |
| 22:29.21 | unum | I don't want to select any rows if they havea duplicate value |
| 22:29.25 | unum | is there a way to do that |
| 22:30.10 | mgeary | unum: you want all rows that are in the DB only once? |
| 22:30.33 | SunSparc | "The ALL, DISTINCT, and DISTINCTROW options specify whether duplicate rows should be returned. If none of these options are given, the default is ALL (all matching rows are returned). DISTINCT and DISTINCTROW are synonyms and specify removal of duplicate rows from the result set." |
| 22:30.35 | fungus | Solaris has great technology (ZFS, DTrace, etc), but still stinks. Hopefully Ian Murdock will turn it into something compelling. |
| 22:30.51 | SunSparc | http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/select.html |
| 22:30.52 | dataw0lf | fungus: doubtful |
| 22:31.16 | dataw0lf | I don't think I've ever had bigger headaches with any operating system compared to Solaris. Maybe Tru64. |
| 22:31.18 | fungus | Probably right, I'll just wait for the cool tech to be ported to Linux |
| 22:31.24 | dataw0lf | fungus: amen! |
| 22:31.55 | dataw0lf | my first UNIX experience was HP-UX |
| 22:32.00 | *** join/#uphpu mindjuju (n=mindjuju@65-121-75-195.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 22:32.01 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o mindjuju] by ChanServ |
| 22:32.18 | jsmith | dataw0lf: You probably never used early versions of SCO, did you? Solaris and IRIX were a dream compared to it. |
| 22:32.19 | fungus | My first was FreeBSD but I didn't really know it. |
| 22:32.22 | dataw0lf | using massive amounts of CPU with cc until they kicked me off, then finally banned my parent's student account. |
| 22:32.25 | dataw0lf | jsmith: negative. |
| 22:32.50 | dataw0lf | it's sitting in my garage somewhere |
| 22:33.20 | dataw0lf | I still have a Tru64 DEC machine running as my DNS server at home though! |
| 22:33.27 | fungus | dude the 17" is soo big how do you get your hands around it, let alone even carry it. |
| 22:33.46 | timinator | I have big hands |
| 22:34.10 | timinator | LMAO |
| 22:34.26 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: is that what YOU'RE calling your macbook now? |
| 22:34.29 | _psychic_ | fungus: I have one still. Loved it when I was in school. |
| 22:34.38 | timinator | the 12" was a good machine.... but the screen size was too dang small |
| 22:34.49 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: given the ... things you've been hugging lately, that line of thought is not surprising. |
| 22:35.12 | _psychic_ | It's not a development machine |
| 22:35.21 | SunSparc | lol |
| 22:35.28 | orsonj | PoeticIntensity: no problem, that was a nice distraction anyway. It looks pretty good now that you got rid of my colors and put yours back in. |
| 22:35.29 | timinator | link?!?!?! |
| 22:36.00 | fungus | I just setup Ubuntu on my SunFire server last week. Love Sun hardware, Hate Solaris. |
| 22:36.04 | PoeticIntensity | orsonj, heh.... thanks again. |
| 22:36.10 | PoeticIntensity | I'm a noob at CSS. |
| 22:36.55 | dataw0lf | timinator: http://a588.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/99/l_fd5bb8c40a05f6a9303519321247891b.jpg |
| 22:37.01 | dataw0lf | I assume that's what _psychic_ speaks of |
| 22:37.17 | _psychic_ | hm |
| 22:37.21 | _psychic_ | hugging *and* licking |
| 22:37.23 | PoeticIntensity | timinator, the site orsonj was helping me with can be found at www.ilovemyjournal.com |
| 22:37.30 | _psychic_ | the prosecution rests. |
| 22:37.38 | timinator | OH SH**....... I could've gone years w/o seeing that |
| 22:37.41 | SunSparc | ROGL!!! |
| 22:38.07 | PoeticIntensity | I'm outta here! |
| 22:38.09 | PoeticIntensity | See ya'll tomorrow... |
| 22:38.14 | mindjuju | cya PI |
| 22:38.21 | timinator | later |
| 22:38.27 | mindjuju | you're too funny dataw0lf |
| 22:38.48 | dataw0lf | I saw beer on his face, no use in letting it go to waste... |
| 22:39.02 | dataw0lf | and now I have egg on mine... ohhhhhhhh wellllll |
| 22:40.21 | dataw0lf | waitaminute |
| 22:40.24 | dataw0lf | I've been had! |
| 22:40.35 | *** join/#uphpu beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 22:40.35 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v beandog] by ChanServ |
| 22:40.51 | SunSparc | ~give dataw0lf a cookie |
| 22:40.52 | jbot | ACTION gives dataw0lf a home-baked oatmeal raisin cookie to cheer him up. |
| 22:41.06 | mindjuju | i'd have given him mouthwash |
| 22:41.19 | timinator | LOL |
| 22:41.24 | SunSparc | mindjuju: Cookies always taste better |
| 22:41.40 | mindjuju | you did see he liked up a drop o' beer from a urinal |
| 22:41.43 | mindjuju | cookie won't help much |
| 22:42.03 | SunSparc | But it sure will taste good. |
| 22:42.06 | mindjuju | unless it is a Listerine xTRA strength cookie |
| 22:42.12 | SunSparc | Gross! |
| 22:42.20 | mindjuju | full of teeth scrubbing, goodness |
| 22:42.21 | dataw0lf | what an idea |
| 22:42.26 | dataw0lf | cookies, made from listerine... |
| 22:42.36 | timinator | brilliant!!! |
| 22:42.48 | mindjuju | not just listerine, but xTRA strength Listerine |
| 22:42.48 | dataw0lf | ew chocolate |
| 22:43.29 | SunSparc | ~lart Listerine |
| 22:43.29 | jbot | burns Listerine to a crisp with a laser |
| 22:44.11 | mindjuju | listerine rox! |
| 22:44.30 | SunSparc | Listerine hurts my mouth |
| 22:44.32 | unum | mgeary: yes that is what I want |
| 22:44.35 | mindjuju | i especially love it if you just bit your tongue and have a small cut |
| 22:44.44 | unum | sorry I had to take take care of something else |
| 22:44.46 | SunSparc | Yow! |
| 22:44.47 | mgeary | unum: you can join the table to itself |
| 22:44.59 | mgeary | and find null values in the second instance |
| 22:45.12 | mgeary | what's the field that you need to not be duplicated? |
| 22:45.22 | unum | study_index |
| 22:45.27 | mgeary | so, something like this: |
| 22:45.45 | mindjuju | 4:45p! it's movie time! |
| 22:45.52 | mindjuju | did anybody go to see the simpsons movie? |
| 22:45.56 | fungus | Yup |
| 22:45.59 | fungus | Friday |
| 22:46.10 | mindjuju | any good? |
| 22:46.13 | fungus | Totally awesome |
| 22:46.19 | fungus | Best movie of the year so far |
| 22:46.24 | timinator | nice... |
| 22:46.27 | mindjuju | i'm jealous! i want to go see |
| 22:46.56 | dataw0lf | I heard it was terrible |
| 22:46.58 | mindjuju | i've only seen the trailer where you see bart skating buttnaked down the road and hits the window where Flanders is sitting |
| 22:47.11 | mindjuju | holding a hotdog of all thigns |
| 22:47.17 | mgeary | unum: something like this. warning, pseudo-sql: |
| 22:47.18 | mgeary | select master_table.id from tablename master_table LEFT OUTER JOIN tablename secondary_table ON (master_table.study_index = secondary_table.study_index) WHERE ISNULL(secondary_table.id) |
| 22:47.18 | fungus | lol, yup |
| 22:47.42 | fungus | I really enjoyed it, and the rest of the theatre seemed to like it as well. |
| 22:48.35 | mindjuju | brb |
| 22:48.35 | fungus | Watch out for the nudity though. :P |
| 22:48.40 | mindjuju | is there? |
| 22:48.44 | mindjuju | simpsons nudity? |
| 22:48.49 | fungus | lol, yes |
| 22:48.53 | mindjuju | curious |
| 22:49.02 | fungus | Just a quick flash. |
| 22:49.11 | timinator | of what? |
| 22:49.18 | unum | mgeary: thanks |
| 22:49.29 | mgeary | unum: let me know if that works. |
| 22:49.33 | fungus | Bart's penis |
| 22:49.39 | SunSparc | mgeary: Why not just use DISTINCT? |
| 22:49.43 | mindjuju | too funny |
| 22:49.59 | unum | SunSparc: because distinct will return the first row with that value |
| 22:50.02 | timinator | LOL |
| 22:50.11 | mgeary | unum: you could also do a group by and get a count = 1 |
| 22:50.16 | mgeary | something like this: |
| 22:50.17 | mindjuju | brb |
| 22:50.20 | timinator | BRB |
| 22:50.27 | unum | this way it's not supposed to return any rows if there are duplicates |
| 22:50.46 | fungus | http://digg.com/movies/Screenshot_of_Bart_s_Penis_from_the_Simpsons_Movie_NSFW |
| 22:51.30 | mgeary | unum: this kind of approach might also work, not tried: |
| 22:51.30 | dataw0lf | AEAHGAKA! |
| 22:51.31 | mgeary | select count(tablename.id) as hitcount, tablename.study_index from tablename group by study_index where hitcount = 1 |
| 22:51.37 | dataw0lf | BART'S PENIS! |
| 22:51.38 | dataw0lf | ea;lakjg |
| 22:52.42 | mgeary | TPF++ |
| 22:52.43 | beandog | wow, digg has hit a new low. |
| 22:52.48 | beandog | not that it had far to go |
| 22:55.06 | unum | mgeary: select studies_timezones.study_index from studies_timezones group by study_index HAVING count(*)=1 |
| 22:55.13 | unum | I think it is working |
| 22:55.25 | mgeary | cool |
| 22:55.32 | mgeary | though i'd think you'd get faster results with the join |
| 22:55.39 | mgeary | if it's indexed |
| 22:57.20 | unum | it's not... |
| 22:57.31 | mgeary | well you'll definitely want to index it |
| 22:57.38 | mgeary | 'cause the group will want that as well |
| 23:00.53 | mindjuju | beandog , what did digg do? |
| 23:03.48 | beandog | mindjuju: ^^ fungus |
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| 23:04.36 | mindjuju | oh, about the nudity? |
| 23:05.13 | beandog | yah |
| 23:12.14 | *** part/#uphpu cole_joplin (n=Cole@c-67-166-64-239.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
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| 23:18.31 | herlo | cole_joplin: how's life |
| 23:20.51 | timinator | back |
| 23:21.08 | mgeary | man, it's been a while since i had to do something like this: can anyone give me tips on calculating the (X,Y) points to approximate a circle with radius R in N points? for example, if R=10 and N=4, the points would simply be: (10,0),(0,10),(-10,0),(0,-10). I've done this before, but i'm rusty |
| 23:21.12 | mindjuju | welcome back timinator |
| 23:22.03 | timinator | ty |
| 23:23.37 | mgeary | ah, i think i've got it |
| 23:24.45 | cole_joplin | someone please shoot me |
| 23:25.05 | mgeary | ~shoot cole_joplin |
| 23:25.06 | jbot | ACTION shoots cole_joplin in the ear with a spitwad! |
| 23:26.36 | herlo | mgeary: don't do that. Be nice to cole_joplin |
| 23:26.42 | mgeary | it was upon request |
| 23:26.44 | herlo | ~mgeary mgeary |
| 23:26.44 | jbot | ACTION mgeary is held down whilst repeatedly beaten with the "what is a bot" stick |
| 23:26.50 | mgeary | ~stinky herlo |
| 23:26.51 | jbot | ACTION throws herlo into the shower and scrubs vigorously with Liquid Plumber and a wire brush. "Ewww, i am NOT cleaning the hair from the drain" |
| 23:26.58 | herlo | ~hugh mgeary |
| 23:26.58 | jbot | ACTION watches Hugh, the freakishly huge killer whale, body slam mgeary |
| 23:27.05 | herlo | ~whalepoo mgeary |
| 23:27.18 | mgeary | cole_joplin: so, why the death/spitwad-wish? |
| 23:28.04 | mindjuju | dag, it's over! |
| 23:28.33 | herlo | ~lart mindjuju for not responding in #utos |
| 23:28.33 | jbot | cats /dev/urandom into mindjuju's ear for not responding in #utos |
| 23:28.49 | mindjuju | when? |
| 23:28.52 | mindjuju | i thought i did |
| 23:29.23 | herlo | mindjuju: scroll up |
| 23:29.57 | cole_joplin | sob |
| 23:30.01 | herlo | <@herlo> mindjuju: is that a yes? |
| 23:32.11 | herlo | ~lart fernplant |
| 23:32.11 | jbot | moos at fernplant |
| 23:33.04 | fernplant | nobody here except us fernplants |
| 23:33.59 | *** part/#uphpu cole_joplin (n=Cole@c-67-166-64-239.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:35.51 | herlo | ~herlo fernplant |
| 23:35.52 | jbot | ACTION pokes fernplant with a sharp needle |
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| 23:41.05 | timinator | later guys... I'm outie |
| 23:41.07 | *** part/#uphpu mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
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| 23:49.02 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o Utah_Dave] by ChanServ |
