| 00:00.03 | mindjuju | oh well, i guess you cant have everything |
| 00:00.39 | beandog | Ive got cookies. |
| 00:01.07 | mindjuju | i have cajun mix from Walmart |
| 00:01.22 | beandog | mindjuju: if it makes you feel any better, I cap out at about 150k here at work |
| 00:01.24 | beandog | its horrible. |
| 00:01.46 | mindjuju | where do you get 3mb from? |
| 00:01.50 | beandog | home |
| 00:01.59 | mgeary | pfft |
| 00:02.04 | burnin | 3 mega bytes / second ??? fiber optic? |
| 00:02.06 | beandog | pufft |
| 00:02.11 | beandog | burnin: comcast |
| 00:02.32 | mindjuju | man, that reminds me of the days of airswitch |
| 00:03.04 | mindjuju | running a MAN in springville |
| 00:03.18 | mindjuju | 7 years ago, i was getting 1mb/sec for $20 / month |
| 00:03.22 | burnin | beandog, megabit or megabyte? is it a business comcast account? |
| 00:03.28 | beandog | megabyte. |
| 00:03.35 | beandog | and no |
| 00:03.45 | beandog | 3 megs is the max I'll get, though |
| 00:03.52 | beandog | its usually between 750k and 2 megs |
| 00:04.16 | mindjuju | boy, this reminds me of the days in high school... |
| 00:04.24 | mindjuju | i have 28,8 modem |
| 00:04.31 | beandog | man, I dont miss that. |
| 00:04.34 | mindjuju | well... i have 33,6 |
| 00:04.44 | mindjuju | doesn't seem like 56k was out at the time |
| 00:05.06 | mindjuju | and actually, now that i think about it, i think it was just 14,4 and 28,8 |
| 00:05.08 | timinator_ | I'm out guys... later |
| 00:05.11 | mindjuju | don't think 33,6 was out |
| 00:05.31 | beandog | 70% [========================> ] 31,579,947 1.23M/s ETA 00:11 |
| 00:05.32 | beandog | :D |
| 00:05.37 | burnin | http://www.speakeasy.net/speedtest/ |
| 00:05.42 | beandog | okay actually thats my server. |
| 00:05.44 | beandog | heh |
| 00:05.45 | beandog | I cant hit my box. |
| 00:05.48 | burnin | beandog, so you can peg their bandwidth meter? |
| 00:06.19 | mindjuju | well, if we are going for quartermile speed tests... |
| 00:07.10 | beandog | oh yah, I changed my ip address |
| 00:07.12 | beandog | whoops. |
| 00:07.13 | burnin | I max out at 6mbps to the west coast, about 4.5mbps east coast |
| 00:07.42 | mindjuju | heh! k, west coast 6633kbps |
| 00:07.45 | mindjuju | let's see east |
| 00:08.59 | mindjuju | dag, for some reason, my east coast stats stink |
| 00:10.01 | burnin | hmm, the maximum bandwidth comcast package I can get here in Riverton is 8Mbps for $53/month |
| 00:11.54 | mindjuju | well, that's interesting |
| 00:12.03 | mindjuju | get to see how much my firewall affects throughput |
| 00:12.52 | mindjuju | my up is 10846 kbps and my down is 6026 kbps |
| 00:13.05 | mgeary | mindjuju: how'd you test? via VNC? |
| 00:13.16 | mindjuju | speakeasy |
| 00:13.18 | mgeary | browser in VNC -> speakeasy? |
| 00:13.27 | mgeary | or does speakeasy have a cli interface? |
| 00:13.48 | mgeary | iow, you ssh'd into your server and....? |
| 00:13.48 | mindjuju | well, VPN to firewall, then remoting to box |
| 00:14.02 | burnin | mindjuju, what type of connection are you using? |
| 00:14.04 | mgeary | remoting == vnc |
| 00:14.05 | mgeary | ? |
| 00:14.22 | mindjuju | xmission colo pipe |
| 00:14.32 | burnin | :) |
| 00:14.45 | burnin | mindjuju, windows server? |
| 00:14.50 | mindjuju | yeah |
| 00:16.23 | mindjuju | i sure wish i was on utopia |
| 00:16.29 | burnin | same here |
| 00:16.37 | burnin | Riverton is on their to do list |
| 00:16.48 | burnin | but I heard they stopped construction |
| 00:17.51 | mindjuju | <PROTECTED> |
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| 00:56.43 | bradym | ok, so some guy in #codeigniter is complaining that ci generates xhtml instead of html4, and it got me thinking.. are there any benefits of html4 over xhtml? i've certainly never heard of any, but have you guys? |
| 01:00.14 | influx^_^ | 4 > x(treme) |
| 01:00.18 | influx^_^ | ? |
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| 03:31.22 | mindjuju | zoinks! macnewbold is entirely gone from the channel? i hope he's ok? |
| 03:31.26 | mindjuju | ~seen macnewbold |
| 03:31.49 | jbot | macnewbold <n=mac@cg.dsl.xmission.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #uphpu, 8d 6h 44m 18s ago, saying: 'dataw0lf: not a bad idea... I kind of saw myself more as a Google guy, but Apple isn't far down the list either'. |
| 03:47.58 | *** join/#uphpu thebigdog (n=bigdog@zeus.thebigdog.biz) |
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| 04:06.45 | mindjuju | sup thebigdog |
| 04:06.51 | thebigdog | not much you |
| 04:06.59 | mindjuju | just upgrading some database stuff |
| 04:07.08 | mindjuju | what are you using for a project manager? |
| 04:07.12 | thebigdog | im just working on some logrotation stuff |
| 04:07.17 | mindjuju | i'm pretty tired of MOSS 2007 |
| 04:07.19 | thebigdog | like software? |
| 04:07.30 | mindjuju | yeah, looking for something web based |
| 04:07.30 | thebigdog | i use eventum for alot of my stuff |
| 04:07.39 | mindjuju | is that the one that is based on mysql? |
| 04:09.10 | *** join/#uphpu herlo (n=clints@166-70-63-209.ip.xmission.com) |
| 04:09.10 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v herlo] by ChanServ |
| 04:09.17 | thebigdog | mysql created it for there stuff and then opensourced it |
| 04:11.23 | mindjuju | hmmm... looks pretty good |
| 04:11.40 | mindjuju | i was thinking of going flyspray or trac, but this looks decent |
| 04:11.52 | thebigdog | it helps me track stuff pretty good |
| 04:12.01 | thebigdog | integrates with email and svn so i like that |
| 04:12.04 | mindjuju | i just wish it was minimal enough that it wasn't bloated like mantis, but that it had some kind of calendring system with it |
| 04:12.24 | thebigdog | yeah there is really nothing good out there |
| 04:12.25 | mindjuju | so you could pull up a date and see what projects had to end by that day |
| 04:12.33 | herlo | thebigdog: I missed which tool it was |
| 04:12.44 | thebigdog | eventum |
| 04:12.51 | herlo | nice name |
| 04:12.54 | thebigdog | eventum is more issue based |
| 04:13.02 | mindjuju | yeah, was noticing |
| 04:13.03 | thebigdog | it does have support for projects |
| 04:13.28 | thebigdog | herlo i got an apache question for ya |
| 04:13.44 | herlo | thebigdog: shoot! |
| 04:13.45 | thebigdog | have u used rotatelogs with apache? |
| 04:13.58 | herlo | I've heard of it, I prefer logrotate myself |
| 04:14.12 | herlo | pretty much a part of linux |
| 04:14.15 | thebigdog | yeah same here...my hands are tied somewhat |
| 04:14.31 | herlo | tell them that's what you are using, then use logroate |
| 04:14.33 | herlo | rotate |
| 04:14.36 | herlo | :) |
| 04:14.41 | thebigdog | eyah |
| 04:15.07 | herlo | you could just say thats what you thought they were talking about. Play dumb. |
| 04:15.36 | thebigdog | haha |
| 04:15.38 | thebigdog | i can |
| 04:16.12 | herlo | thebigdog: there's a big opportunity there for a zinger, but I left it alone, just to be nice :-P |
| 04:17.29 | thebigdog | i hate when you htink you have your firewall configure one way and it is not |
| 04:17.40 | thebigdog | makes me look stupid |
| 04:18.16 | herlo | thebigdog: again, wide open |
| 04:18.29 | thebigdog | go ahead herlo...you know you want too |
| 04:18.43 | herlo | thebigdog: nah |
| 04:19.00 | thebigdog | im glad you are reminding me |
| 04:19.10 | herlo | thebigdog: that's more of the fun |
| 04:19.21 | thebigdog | haha |
| 04:21.08 | thebigdog | nice too see that my firewall is working |
| 04:21.23 | herlo | :) |
| 04:21.43 | herlo | thebigdog: at least its filtering *some* of the content you want it to... |
| 04:22.00 | thebigdog | oh its blocking stuff that i thought was open |
| 04:22.26 | thebigdog | i love my dsl router |
| 04:23.03 | thebigdog | i just need a faster pipe |
| 04:23.14 | thebigdog | and yes herlo i know |
| 04:23.27 | thebigdog | mindjuju, you still awake? |
| 04:23.31 | mindjuju | yeah |
| 04:24.07 | herlo | thebigdog: move to Orem, Murray, WVC or Centerville for example and you can solve that |
| 04:37.59 | thebigdog | herlo, with logrotate have you used it with wildcards? |
| 04:38.14 | herlo | where? |
| 04:38.18 | herlo | but yes |
| 04:38.21 | thebigdog | int the paths |
| 04:38.42 | herlo | why would you want to do that? |
| 04:38.54 | herlo | thebigdog: you can list multiple paths |
| 04:38.54 | thebigdog | cause i have tons of log files i need to rotate |
| 04:39.00 | thebigdog | yeah |
| 04:39.07 | herlo | thebigdog: oh, sorry was thinking of syslog |
| 04:39.08 | herlo | hold on |
| 04:39.54 | herlo | there, better now |
| 04:40.53 | herlo | thebigdog: 'man logrotate' gives some good examples |
| 04:41.03 | herlo | thebigdog: it also appears tha tyou can do what you are trying |
| 04:42.02 | thebigdog | cool |
| 04:42.09 | herlo | thebigdog: np |
| 04:44.02 | thebigdog | lol |
| 04:47.19 | mindjuju | man, i wonder why these custodians turn on the lights int he office when they clean, it's not like they do a good job or something |
| 04:52.13 | thebigdog | haha |
| 04:52.14 | thebigdog | herlo does |
| 04:52.40 | thebigdog | i hate freebs |
| 04:52.44 | thebigdog | freebsd |
| 04:53.23 | mindjuju | yeah, had big issues with freebsd when i tried it |
| 04:57.35 | herlo | thebigdog: what do I? |
| 04:57.54 | thebigdog | ^^ |
| 04:58.13 | thebigdog | i was stating you do a good job |
| 04:59.22 | thebigdog | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:59.22 | thebigdog | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:59.22 | thebigdog | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:59.22 | thebigdog | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:59.23 | thebigdog | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:59.25 | thebigdog | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:59.27 | thebigdog | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:59.28 | thebigdog | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:59.30 | thebigdog | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:59.32 | thebigdog | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:59.34 | thebigdog | } |
| 04:59.36 | thebigdog | that looks good |
| 04:59.43 | herlo | thebigdog: how nice of you! |
| 04:59.44 | thebigdog | missed the top: /www/logs/*_log { |
| 04:59.56 | herlo | thebigdog: haha |
| 05:00.01 | thebigdog | works like a champ |
| 05:00.16 | herlo | its very *very* configurable. |
| 05:00.36 | herlo | which is why I wonder about rotatelogs |
| 05:01.05 | thebigdog | just easier to add that to the apache config i guess |
| 05:01.31 | herlo | thebigdog: yeah, and it probably works on M$ too |
| 05:01.36 | herlo | because apache does it |
| 05:01.42 | thebigdog | yeah |
| 05:01.47 | thebigdog | good point |
| 05:01.54 | thebigdog | not sure that many people use it though |
| 05:02.08 | herlo | I don't know |
| 05:02.19 | herlo | I've never been very good at statistics |
| 05:03.47 | mindjuju | finally! DI.fm is playing something decent on the Breaks channel |
| 05:20.11 | *** join/#uphpu thebigdog (n=bigdog@zeus.thebigdog.biz) |
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| 05:20.27 | thebigdog | my connection sucks tonight |
| 05:35.14 | mindjuju | ~lart thebigdog 's sucky connection |
| 05:35.14 | jbot | makes a balloon animal out of thebigdog 's sucky connection |
| 05:35.27 | thebigdog | ty |
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| 14:36.54 | macnewbold | sup, all |
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| 14:53.29 | *** join/#uphpu SunSparc (n=sparky@66.7.114.126) |
| 14:54.38 | SunSparc | Guten morgen jeder! |
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| 14:57.09 | macnewbold | ~cookie |
| 14:57.16 | macnewbold | ~brownie |
| 14:57.16 | jbot | ACTION gives macnewbold a double-chocolate-chip brownie. A corner piece, 'cause the crust is the best part! mmmmm. |
| 15:01.43 | _psychic_ | wb macnewbold |
| 15:02.07 | macnewbold | thanks _psychic_ |
| 15:02.37 | macnewbold | I see a few new faces in here, and almost all of the familiar ones |
| 15:03.00 | macnewbold | so how's your SunSparc doing? |
| 15:04.00 | SunSparc | Sparckily |
| 15:04.02 | SunSparc | :) |
| 15:12.19 | macnewbold | ~lart mindjuju |
| 15:12.19 | jbot | gets a hotmal account and SPAMs mindjuju |
| 15:12.40 | *** join/#uphpu cyco|w (n=cyco@66.114.120.2) |
| 15:13.44 | SunSparc | hotmal? |
| 15:13.57 | SunSparc | jbot, you need to learn how to spell |
| 15:16.36 | macnewbold | hotmal is the spammy version of hotmail |
| 15:17.13 | bradym | you mean hotmail isn't spammy? that's news to me ;) |
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| 15:35.33 | PoeticIntensity | so.... where have you been, macnewbold ? |
| 15:35.44 | PoeticIntensity | I'm sure everyone else knows.... but I'm curious.. :) |
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| 15:55.25 | bradym | if he told you, he'd have to kill you... thus the silence ;) |
| 15:56.28 | SunSparc | He could TRY to kill me. |
| 16:13.50 | orsonj | where's the 'there is no try' guy |
| 16:13.53 | orsonj | ~try |
| 16:13.54 | jbot | Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try. |
| 16:15.04 | orsonj | personaly I believe that try is what happens before 'do' or 'do not' happens, although it doesn't have to happen for 'do not' |
| 16:21.51 | dataw0lf | Try implies that there is a chance of failure. |
| 16:21.55 | dataw0lf | That's the point of the quote. |
| 16:21.59 | SunSparc | Try usually insinuates pre-destined failure |
| 16:22.03 | SunSparc | Doh! |
| 16:22.20 | SunSparc | What wolfy said. |
| 16:27.06 | *** join/#uphpu mgeary_ (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 16:30.48 | orsonj | I guess some people don't like the risk. |
| 16:31.13 | orsonj | but yes, it does have that weasly feel to it. |
| 16:31.55 | orsonj | apply effort? attempt? |
| 16:32.14 | orsonj | attempt implies chance of sucess? does it not? |
| 16:32.38 | *** join/#uphpu gibba[w] (i=gibs@209-253-35-21.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 16:33.02 | Ritter | chance .. but setting your mind to something implies a certainty of success .. failure is not an option |
| 16:33.28 | Ritter | g'morning all |
| 16:36.18 | SunSparc | Magandang umaga, Ritter. |
| 16:38.19 | orsonj | I suppose try and attempt imply one shot where Do. implies while (not done) { try } |
| 16:38.53 | SunSparc | Where is master Yoda when we need him? |
| 16:40.42 | orsonj | ~seen yoda |
| 16:40.43 | jbot | yoda <n=yoda@d54C642FB.access.telenet.be> was last seen on IRC in channel #debian, 146d 3h 53m 3s ago, saying: 'It work again :-)'. |
| 16:41.16 | *** join/#uphpu thebigdog (n=bigdog@208.177.146.102.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 16:41.16 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o thebigdog] by ChanServ |
| 16:41.19 | SunSparc | Wow, he has not been on for quite a while. |
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| 17:01.46 | herlo | thebigdog: !!!! |
| 17:11.40 | thebigdog | man today feels like monday |
| 17:16.10 | SunSparc | Happy Monday, thebigdog. |
| 17:16.16 | thebigdog | ~monday |
| 17:16.17 | jbot | [monday] when everything breaks for no apparent reason, creating so many problems that it takes you until friday to get back to normal. at which point one more thing breaks that takes you the whole weekend to fix |
| 17:17.27 | SunSparc | jbot, that is a depressing definition of Monday's. |
| 17:17.28 | jbot | SunSparc: I think you lost me on that one |
| 17:17.34 | SunSparc | I am sure of it. |
| 17:17.40 | SunSparc | :) |
| 17:18.40 | thebigdog | man bg last night sucked |
| 17:19.19 | beandog | bg? |
| 17:19.24 | beandog | baldur's gate? |
| 17:19.25 | thebigdog | battlegrounds |
| 17:23.31 | SunSparc | Does that mean you got your Horde can kicked? |
| 17:23.40 | SunSparc | :) |
| 17:23.50 | thebigdog | yeah, i have pissed many an alli off |
| 17:23.55 | thebigdog | so there are some that love to track me down |
| 17:24.11 | thebigdog | SunSparc, check out raimundus on armory |
| 17:24.11 | SunSparc | Ah, your reputation precedes you. That is always fun. |
| 17:24.43 | thebigdog | yeah me and a pally and a rogue went at it last night |
| 17:25.38 | thebigdog | what herlo no comment? |
| 17:25.43 | SunSparc | on bloodscalp |
| 17:25.44 | SunSparc | ? |
| 17:25.46 | thebigdog | y |
| 17:25.56 | thebigdog | SunSparc, i got my raptor chest |
| 17:26.03 | thebigdog | i need to get a new gun though |
| 17:26.11 | thebigdog | i want to get the ironweaver gun |
| 17:26.30 | SunSparc | Level 29, cool :) |
| 17:27.36 | thebigdog | eyah |
| 17:28.03 | thebigdog | SunSparc, i just need to do all my enchants now |
| 17:29.35 | SunSparc | thebigdog: I do not think I am up to your WoW vocabulary level yet. :) I am not sure what you mean by that. |
| 17:29.57 | thebigdog | oh enchants are what you put on armour/weapons |
| 17:31.09 | *** join/#uphpu bios__ (i=bios@mindphone.org) |
| 17:31.37 | [bios] | hey all.. it's nice to see a channel to back up a mailing list.. |
| 17:31.38 | [bios] | :] |
| 17:31.50 | SunSparc | Ah, cool. |
| 17:31.52 | thebigdog | SunSparc, check out my boots |
| 17:32.01 | thebigdog | it has a +7 stamina in green |
| 17:32.05 | thebigdog | that is an enchant |
| 17:32.10 | [bios] | I just recently joined the mailing list and it seems to be very active and helpful , which is nice |
| 17:32.57 | dataw0lf | thebigdog: too bad Wal-Mart doesn't sell 't-shirts of unnerdiness + 10', or you'd be living a perfect life |
| 17:32.59 | thebigdog | [bios], welcome |
| 17:33.09 | [bios] | thx :] |
| 17:33.11 | SunSparc | Oh, so you can add attributes to your armor through enchantments. Very nice. Hmm, I recall clicking on a scroll and having attributes added to some of my armor. |
| 17:33.29 | SunSparc | bios: Welcome. |
| 17:33.32 | [bios] | :] |
| 17:33.41 | thebigdog | SunSparc, yeah enchanters do it |
| 17:33.44 | SunSparc | bios: I guess you got Trillian working? |
| 17:33.50 | thebigdog | you can get some killer enchants |
| 17:33.54 | [bios] | wasn't me looking for it |
| 17:33.57 | [bios] | I use irssi |
| 17:34.16 | dataw0lf | i ssi |
| 17:34.23 | SunSparc | bios: Ah, well I had a 50/50 chances of looking like I was a good guesser. |
| 17:34.33 | [bios] | hehe |
| 17:34.37 | [bios] | well played regardless |
| 17:34.39 | [bios] | :] |
| 17:34.52 | SunSparc | dataw0lf: very clever |
| 17:35.16 | [bios] | heh.. nice dataw0lf |
| 17:36.01 | [bios] | ok.. I just thought I'd join and say hi.. hope nobody minds another idler :] |
| 17:36.17 | dataw0lf | <?=$this->benchmark->elapsed_time(); ?> |
| 17:36.21 | dataw0lf | bah |
| 17:37.03 | SunSparc | bios: idle away, it just makes us look like we have more people in here and thus, like a more cool channel. :) |
| 17:37.08 | [bios] | hehe |
| 17:40.27 | dataw0lf | seafood and beer at the casino? |
| 17:41.46 | PoeticIntensity | SunSparc, you mean to say that we're not already as cool as possible? |
| 17:42.08 | *** join/#uphpu timinator (n=timinato@c-67-171-118-199.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 17:42.08 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v timinator] by ChanServ |
| 17:44.42 | SunSparc | PoeticIntensity: I mean to say, that I do not believe that $uphpuCoolness has a maximum limit. |
| 17:45.19 | SunSparc | Thus, having bios here sets $uphpuCoolness++ |
| 17:46.13 | PoeticIntensity | aahhh.... |
| 17:46.31 | SunSparc | :) |
| 17:47.30 | SunSparc | ~karma PoeticIntensity |
| 17:47.30 | jbot | poeticintensity has neutral karma |
| 17:48.24 | dataw0lf | ~karma SunSparc |
| 17:48.24 | jbot | sunsparc has neutral karma |
| 17:48.29 | dataw0lf | ~karma dataw0lf |
| 17:48.29 | jbot | dataw0lf has karma of 6 |
| 17:48.48 | dataw0lf | ~dataw0lf-- |
| 17:49.10 | *** join/#uphpu burnin (n=burnin@204-228-142-194.ip.xmission.com) |
| 17:49.19 | orsonj | I wonder where mine got to |
| 17:49.24 | orsonj | ~karma orsonj |
| 17:49.24 | jbot | orsonj has neutral karma |
| 17:49.27 | orsonj | ~karma orson |
| 17:49.27 | jbot | orson has neutral karma |
| 17:49.38 | PoeticIntensity | we're all neutral.... 'cep for dataw0lf. He's just too cool. |
| 17:49.54 | SunSparc | dataw0lf is all sorts of swimming in karma. |
| 17:50.11 | mgeary_ | naw, look: |
| 17:50.16 | mgeary_ | ~karma thebigdog |
| 17:50.16 | jbot | thebigdog has karma of -1 |
| 17:50.16 | orsonj | maybe it was on a different server, but I thought I was at -17 or something |
| 17:50.28 | dataw0lf | ~karma wps |
| 17:50.28 | jbot | wps has karma of 11 |
| 17:50.31 | dataw0lf | ~karma macnewbold |
| 17:50.31 | jbot | macnewbold has karma of 7 |
| 17:50.40 | dataw0lf | ~karma mindjuju |
| 17:50.40 | jbot | mindjuju has neutral karma |
| 17:50.44 | dataw0lf | ! |
| 17:50.49 | dataw0lf | ~mindjuju++ |
| 17:50.53 | orsonj | mindjuju++ |
| 17:51.00 | PoeticIntensity | ~mindjuju++ |
| 17:51.10 | PoeticIntensity | ~karma mindjuju |
| 17:51.10 | jbot | mindjuju has karma of 2 |
| 17:51.16 | _psychic_ | !itunes |
| 17:51.21 | orsonj | ~mindjuju++ |
| 17:51.24 | PoeticIntensity | ~karma mindjuju |
| 17:51.24 | jbot | mindjuju has karma of 3 |
| 17:51.27 | PoeticIntensity | there ya go. |
| 17:51.38 | orsonj | needs that curly thing |
| 17:51.39 | PoeticIntensity | ~itunes |
| 17:51.39 | jbot | [itunes] a badass media manager/player that lets the user make "smart" playlists |
| 17:52.11 | PoeticIntensity | jbot: itunes is also the DRM nazi. |
| 17:52.12 | jbot | okay, PoeticIntensity |
| 17:52.16 | PoeticIntensity | ~itunes |
| 17:52.17 | jbot | [itunes] a badass media manager/player that lets the user make "smart" playlists, or the DRM nazi. |
| 17:52.27 | orsonj | better |
| 17:52.31 | PoeticIntensity | woot |
| 17:53.11 | SunSparc | jbot: itunes is getting out of the DRM ring |
| 17:53.12 | jbot | ...but itunes is already something else... |
| 17:53.21 | SunSparc | :P |
| 17:53.34 | bradym | ~karma bradym |
| 17:53.34 | jbot | bradym has neutral karma |
| 17:54.03 | SunSparc | jbot: itunes is also getting out of the DRM ring |
| 17:54.03 | jbot | okay, SunSparc |
| 17:54.11 | SunSparc | Dumb bot |
| 17:54.16 | beandog | whats a smart playlist? |
| 17:54.30 | PoeticIntensity | beandog, a playlist that learns what you like. |
| 17:54.38 | beandog | oh |
| 17:54.41 | wps | no… it doesn't "learn" |
| 17:54.43 | PoeticIntensity | itunes does it. amarok does it. |
| 17:54.44 | wps | it's just dynamic |
| 17:54.48 | PoeticIntensity | oh... |
| 17:54.49 | PoeticIntensity | nevermind... |
| 17:54.53 | PoeticIntensity | I guess that amarok only does it. |
| 17:54.56 | PoeticIntensity | amarok learns. |
| 17:55.03 | beandog | no me gustar amarok. |
| 17:55.07 | PoeticIntensity | I know. |
| 17:55.08 | beandog | audacious ftw! |
| 17:55.13 | wps | it's based off criteria so it automatically (constantly) updates |
| 17:55.14 | PoeticIntensity | audacious doesn't learn, either. |
| 17:55.27 | beandog | silly phoobs. |
| 17:55.30 | SunSparc | iTunes++ |
| 17:55.36 | PoeticIntensity | wps.... not to be nit-picky, but couldn't that mean that it "learns", as well? |
| 17:55.46 | dataw0lf | iTunes-- |
| 17:55.48 | PoeticIntensity | automatically updating based on criteria? |
| 17:55.50 | wps | I wouldn't think so… how is that learning? |
| 17:55.58 | wps | it doesn't get smart |
| 17:55.59 | PoeticIntensity | how do we learn? |
| 17:56.05 | wps | you set criteria and then it is set |
| 17:56.07 | SunSparc | iTunes++inifinity |
| 17:56.21 | PoeticIntensity | iTunes--to the depths of an infernal abyss. |
| 17:56.26 | SunSparc | LOL |
| 17:56.29 | wps | the list only changes if you add or remove items from your master library that do or do not meet the criteria |
| 17:56.33 | dataw0lf | while(1) { iTunes--; } |
| 17:56.39 | wps | it's just a filter |
| 17:56.42 | PoeticIntensity | ah... |
| 17:56.54 | SunSparc | Nice one dataw0lf, although I disagree |
| 17:57.07 | wps | a traditional play list works by you adding items to it manually |
| 17:57.12 | PoeticIntensity | amarok watches your listening habits, and based off of criteria - it gives each song a "score"... |
| 17:57.21 | beandog | really? |
| 17:57.22 | beandog | thats cool. |
| 17:57.23 | wps | ah… iTunes doesn't do that |
| 17:57.31 | wps | a smart play list populates itself by criteria you set |
| 17:57.34 | PoeticIntensity | that score usually is pretty good at sniffing out what you like. |
| 17:57.42 | PoeticIntensity | wps... ahhh... |
| 17:57.43 | PoeticIntensity | I see. |
| 17:57.58 | wps | ~lart SunSparc |
| 17:57.58 | jbot | stuffs SunSparc into a shiny new tin can and vacuum seals it |
| 17:58.09 | PoeticIntensity | and yes, beandog, really. :) |
| 17:58.11 | beandog | ~score SunSparc |
| 17:58.12 | SunSparc | hehe |
| 17:59.30 | mgeary_ | itunes can make a smart playlist based on how many times you listen to something |
| 17:59.33 | PoeticIntensity | man.... for being as diverse as we are, we sure do get along quite well.. :) |
| 17:59.45 | PoeticIntensity | ~lart mgeary_ |
| 17:59.45 | jbot | flings poo at mgeary_ |
| 17:59.49 | PoeticIntensity | ROFL |
| 17:59.57 | wps | I have a question for ya'll… |
| 17:59.59 | PoeticIntensity | oh man.... |
| 18:00.06 | PoeticIntensity | how in the WORLD am I supposed to get any work done!? |
| 18:00.12 | wps | at my new place of employment… all of the code for the website is in a database |
| 18:00.28 | SunSparc | wps: what? |
| 18:00.34 | PoeticIntensity | serious? |
| 18:00.35 | beandog | oh man. |
| 18:00.38 | beandog | Ive heard of that. |
| 18:00.39 | beandog | horrible. |
| 18:00.43 | SunSparc | You mean all the code is actually in table in the database? |
| 18:00.46 | wps | I hate it |
| 18:00.46 | wps | yes |
| 18:00.49 | SunSparc | That is lame |
| 18:00.53 | beandog | thats nothing |
| 18:00.54 | bradym | wow |
| 18:00.59 | beandog | we used to store the JPEGs in base64 in the database! |
| 18:01.00 | beandog | take that! |
| 18:01.03 | wps | that means to edit it, I have to either do it inside of a web admin app or cut and paste it into an editor and then back to save |
| 18:01.17 | orsonj | ewww |
| 18:01.17 | SunSparc | Ouch |
| 18:01.18 | PoeticIntensity | ..... wh..... .... wh......... |
| 18:01.22 | mgeary_ | and be *really* careful of those update... where statements |
| 18:01.22 | wps | yes, it sucks |
| 18:01.23 | PoeticIntensity | ....why in the world.... |
| 18:01.28 | SunSparc | ~karma wps |
| 18:01.28 | jbot | wps has karma of 11 |
| 18:01.40 | SunSparc | wps: your karma should help you out of that problem |
| 18:01.54 | wps | my questions is… does anyone have any ideas how I could make my life easier without completely changing the system? |
| 18:02.04 | orsonj | If you need a database for code please make it a versioning system. |
| 18:02.19 | wps | (since I don't have the luxury of changing it… at least not today) |
| 18:02.35 | orsonj | Completly change the system but say you tweaked it a bit. |
| 18:02.55 | PoeticIntensity | I'm racking my little tiny brain here...... can anyone explain to me why in the world putting all your code into a db would even be a consideration? |
| 18:03.16 | PoeticIntensity | are there *any* pro's to doing that? |
| 18:03.23 | wps | their reason for putting all of the code into a database was so that deploying to all of the servers (the site is load balanced) would be a non-issue |
| 18:03.31 | wps | I think that that reason is dumb though |
| 18:03.48 | PoeticIntensity | how is that easier than replicating code? |
| 18:03.54 | wps | I don't think it is |
| 18:03.58 | PoeticIntensity | I've never worked on anything load-balanced... |
| 18:04.02 | wps | sure, you don't have to synchronize the servers, but the downsides are tremendous |
| 18:04.14 | PoeticIntensity | amazing. |
| 18:04.23 | wps | I'd much rather just run script that copies all of the code to each of the servers |
| 18:04.26 | PoeticIntensity | do you work with the guy(s) who thought that up? |
| 18:04.26 | bradym | if it were for a site that would never change, ok.. maybe if you were drunk it would sound like a good idea.. but for something that will ever change |
| 18:04.42 | wps | yes, I work with him |
| 18:04.48 | wps | (ie: he's still here) |
| 18:04.50 | PoeticIntensity | is he.................. okay? |
| 18:04.50 | orsonj | so how does the servers run? do the query the code from the database, then run it? |
| 18:05.00 | wps | yes |
| 18:05.05 | orsonj | wow |
| 18:05.08 | PoeticIntensity | holy.... freaking... cow. |
| 18:05.18 | PoeticIntensity | talk about slowing *everything* down. |
| 18:05.30 | wps | pulls the PHP and the HTML out of the database, interprates it and spites it out to the browser |
| 18:05.33 | wps | agreed |
| 18:05.55 | PoeticIntensity | wow. |
| 18:06.05 | PoeticIntensity | It's people like that who make me feel smart. |
| 18:06.07 | PoeticIntensity | :) |
| 18:06.24 | wps | it makes giving non-technical people access to certain areas to update handy though… as the _entire_ website is in a a CMS |
| 18:06.34 | wps | but it is a pain in the butt to edit code |
| 18:06.57 | PoeticIntensity | man.... giving access is a cinch through the filesystem permissions. |
| 18:07.11 | wps | every single change I want to make I have to pull up the page in the CMS… cut-n-paste it to my editor… edit… cut-n-paste back… submit the form… refresh the browser to test… rinse and repeat |
| 18:07.14 | PoeticIntensity | and through OOP. |
| 18:07.31 | PoeticIntensity | nuts. |
| 18:07.33 | PoeticIntensity | that's nuts. |
| 18:07.57 | PoeticIntensity | okay... I'm going to work. |
| 18:08.00 | PoeticIntensity | honest. |
| 18:08.01 | PoeticIntensity | now. |
| 18:08.04 | PoeticIntensity | :) |
| 18:08.51 | wps | I wonder if there was something that I could set up where there is a cron that runs regularly that pulls all of the code out of the db and writes them out as files… I could edit them there… and then the cron regularly checks for changes and puts them back into the db |
| 18:09.05 | mgeary_ | hey, there ya go |
| 18:09.41 | thebigdog | wps that is a pain if you dont ahve any version control |
| 18:09.59 | wps | there is currently no version control |
| 18:10.03 | PoeticIntensity | daaang. |
| 18:10.18 | thebigdog | i could never develop there |
| 18:10.24 | thebigdog | there has to be version control |
| 18:10.41 | PoeticIntensity | unless I was living in 2000 again. |
| 18:10.41 | wps | well, this is just the aquisition/public website… not any of their applications |
| 18:10.54 | wps | I wonder how it's going to scale though |
| 18:11.24 | thebigdog | through enough hardware and it should scale to a point |
| 18:11.39 | wps | it seems like at the least, you would want to write the pages out (static cache) on the live servers |
| 18:11.58 | wps | I guess MySQL can keep up to a point though |
| 18:12.00 | thebigdog | i would...especially if using a load balancer |
| 18:12.04 | wps | like you say… with enough hardware |
| 18:22.15 | beandog | meh |
| 18:22.18 | beandog | php interactive no workie. |
| 18:24.56 | thebigdog | haha |
| 18:30.09 | orsonj | That sounds like a great framework for self modifying web code though! |
| 18:31.55 | herlo | thebigdog: I didn't comment because I was teaching. you know, doing my *job* ?! |
| 18:32.48 | orsonj | If the site gets enough traffic, you could run some genetic algorithms that modify code and see what generates the most traffic. add google ads. Profit! |
| 18:35.52 | beandog | bah |
| 18:35.55 | beandog | ~smack mysql |
| 18:35.56 | jbot | ACTION smacks mysql upside the head. |
| 18:36.56 | *** join/#uphpu thinbegin (n=Miranda@63.76.221.162) |
| 18:37.52 | beandog | cant create a foreign key for some reason. |
| 18:37.59 | beandog | thebigdog: you ever get this |
| 18:38.05 | beandog | ERROR 1005: Can't create table './aht/#sql-c491_523d.frm' (errno: 150) |
| 18:40.06 | beandog | bah. |
| 18:40.17 | beandog | dont freaking make me recreate the table. |
| 18:41.18 | SunSparc | That is an ugly error |
| 18:41.29 | SunSparc | What is the table name? |
| 18:42.08 | beandog | well Im not creating a table |
| 18:42.10 | beandog | I'm altering one |
| 18:42.13 | beandog | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:42.47 | *** join/#uphpu webGuRu (n=chatzill@c-67-182-251-231.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:44.50 | beandog | oh wait, I remember I had this before... |
| 18:45.50 | beandog | something like the data types had to be exactly the same, I think |
| 18:45.51 | beandog | but they are. |
| 18:45.58 | beandog | the error was completely unrelated to the actual problem. |
| 18:46.22 | beandog | that's it. |
| 18:46.25 | beandog | I had to have an index on there. |
| 18:46.38 | beandog | ~lart mysql and its completely worthless, inaccurate and buggy error messages on foreign key support |
| 18:46.38 | jbot | makes a balloon animal out of mysql and its completely worthless, inaccurate and buggy error messages on foreign key support |
| 18:47.11 | SunSparc | :) |
| 18:47.42 | *** join/#uphpu webGuRu (n=chatzill@c-67-182-251-231.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:52.00 | beandog | wtc |
| 18:52.07 | beandog | even if you type the table name wrong, it still gives you that error. |
| 18:52.08 | beandog | bah. |
| 18:52.29 | *** join/#uphpu mindjuju (n=mindjuju@65-121-75-195.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 18:52.30 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o mindjuju] by ChanServ |
| 18:53.59 | *** join/#uphpu fungus (n=olsonl@mailhub.sosstaffing.com) |
| 18:53.59 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o fungus] by ChanServ |
| 18:56.42 | *** join/#uphpu timinator_ (n=timinato@c-67-171-118-199.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:59.39 | *** topic/#UPHPU by mindjuju -> Meeting Thursday - Dynamic PDF generation - Cole Joplin | uphpu.org | Utah PHP Users Group |
| 19:04.06 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v timinator] by ChanServ |
| 19:06.04 | bradym | wish i could go to that meeting.. i've done stuff with pdfs, but i'd like to see how someone else does it |
| 19:07.58 | beandog | http://pics.livejournal.com/athelind/pic/00005bc1 |
| 19:20.35 | *** join/#uphpu cole_joplin (n=Cole@c-67-166-64-239.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:21.43 | herlo | hey cole_joplin |
| 19:21.49 | cole_joplin | yes |
| 19:21.59 | cole_joplin | hi there |
| 19:22.02 | herlo | cole_joplin: nice to see you. how's it going? |
| 19:22.07 | herlo | cole_joplin: that's all |
| 19:22.12 | cole_joplin | good, very busy |
| 19:22.17 | cole_joplin | new job and all |
| 19:22.29 | cole_joplin | coming up to speed |
| 19:22.56 | cole_joplin | I just sent Wade a description of tomorrow night's presentation |
| 19:23.03 | cole_joplin | PHP and PDF |
| 19:23.20 | wps | and I added it to the announcement on the home page |
| 19:23.55 | SunSparc | I plan on going. |
| 19:24.13 | SunSparc | Still in Draper, yes? |
| 19:24.23 | wps | yes |
| 19:24.28 | SunSparc | Cool |
| 19:26.42 | bradym | hey cole_joplin, i was just saying i wish i could make it tomorrow.. any chance i could convice you to post your presentation / notes somewhere? |
| 19:27.04 | wps | if I make it I will have my video camera with me |
| 19:30.54 | SunSparc | Then we can post it on YouTube! |
| 19:31.04 | wps | and Cole will be a star |
| 19:31.28 | cole_joplin | ha |
| 19:31.38 | cole_joplin | I will lucky to survive the mob |
| 19:31.41 | beandog | ~fame |
| 19:31.42 | jbot | it has been said that fame is a realtime mpeg encoder |
| 19:31.47 | beandog | meh. |
| 19:31.48 | cole_joplin | please do not throw food at me |
| 19:32.14 | cole_joplin | a new low has been reached |
| 19:32.21 | beandog | LOL |
| 19:35.56 | wps | wow, I just discovered something interesting |
| 19:36.17 | wps | Safari has a maximum value it will accept for a negative text indent |
| 19:36.27 | wps | it ignores -999999999px |
| 19:36.45 | wps | I guess -2000 will have to do |
| 19:37.23 | SunSparc | Might I ask why one would feel the need to use such a value? |
| 19:38.49 | wps | when creating links with images by means of a block level anchor tag, it is good to still have text within the tags for SEO and screen readers… but you don't want that text displayed to normal viewers, so using an extreme text indent throws it out of view |
| 19:39.47 | SunSparc | Yes, but -999999999px? |
| 19:39.50 | SunSparc | :) |
| 19:39.55 | wps | just being thorough |
| 19:40.04 | wps | :) |
| 19:40.14 | SunSparc | I should say so. |
| 19:41.24 | wps | HA HA HA |
| 19:41.48 | wps | can you imagine what Apple would charge for that? |
| 19:41.48 | SunSparc | :D You just can't please everyone. |
| 19:42.00 | wps | $30,000 |
| 19:42.02 | SunSparc | Yes, $999999999 |
| 19:42.06 | wps | :) |
| 19:42.16 | _psychic_ | lol |
| 19:46.13 | orsonj | yeah, but who's going to walk across the gym to see the text over on the far left side of his display |
| 19:47.34 | _psychic_ | You buy me a monitor like that, and I'll do it. |
| 19:49.13 | _psychic_ | @72ppi, that monitor would be... 22 miles long? |
| 19:54.40 | *** join/#uphpu gibba[w] (i=gibs@209-253-35-21.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 19:57.30 | dataw0lf | wps / SunSparc: don't forget: they also charge your SOUL |
| 19:58.18 | wps | eh… I gave that willingly a long time ago |
| 19:58.22 | SunSparc | Hehe, if that is the case, then they already own me. |
| 19:58.50 | SunSparc | I even have one of those white Apple stickers on my truck. |
| 20:00.00 | orsonj | my calculations put it at 38 miles long |
| 20:08.56 | wps | I hate headphones |
| 20:09.03 | wps | they make your ears hurt |
| 20:09.10 | thebigdog | lol |
| 20:09.32 | wps | s/cell/cube/ |
| 20:16.28 | SunSparc | ?!? Your is 6x6! Lucky! |
| 20:17.06 | wps | I actually don't care much about space |
| 20:17.12 | wps | I would be fine in 4x4 |
| 20:17.29 | jsmith | wps: But it's green! |
| 20:17.34 | wps | the reasons that hate cubes is the lack of control over sound, light, and privacy |
| 20:18.20 | jsmith | wps: You work for the Soviet Union. The words "control" and "privacy" don't exist, unless they're being used against you :-) |
| 20:18.23 | wps | I want it dark, no noise from others, and my face to the door (opposed to my back) |
| 20:18.34 | wps | :) |
| 20:18.37 | jsmith | wps: There's always the game room. |
| 20:18.54 | jsmith | wps: It's dark, the computers are fairly fast, etc. |
| 20:18.55 | wps | indeed! |
| 20:22.02 | PoeticIntensity | where do you work, wps ? |
| 20:22.13 | wps | omniture |
| 20:22.18 | PoeticIntensity | ah.... |
| 20:22.19 | PoeticIntensity | just curious. |
| 20:22.47 | wps | I really can't complain though… the office here is awesome |
| 20:23.13 | wps | one of the best in Utah… especially for a company this size |
| 20:23.26 | wps | I've seen some sweet studios in SL, but they are never more than 30-50 people |
| 20:27.39 | dataw0lf | I've heard good things from jsmith before |
| 20:28.41 | jsmith | Yeah... the company was fun to work for... and the cubicles were new... but they were small |
| 20:29.46 | orsonj | good point, I like having the door in front of me. (or off to the side, but still in front) |
| 20:30.48 | mindjuju | anybody have a reliable matrix of the length(complexity) v time required to crack password? |
| 20:30.56 | mindjuju | i'm looking for one and can't seem to find something |
| 20:31.21 | mgeary_ | mindjuju: did you look for stickies in the office? :) |
| 20:31.23 | jsmith | mindjuju: Doesn't that depend on the way the passwords are encrypted? |
| 20:31.42 | thebigdog | yes it does |
| 20:31.56 | thebigdog | mindjuju, transformers has that as a comment in the movie |
| 20:31.58 | mindjuju | 128bit AES |
| 20:32.00 | mgeary_ | well, it depends on how you're trying to crack it |
| 20:32.10 | mindjuju | brute force |
| 20:32.15 | mgeary_ | a dictionary-based account won't take any longer than any other way |
| 20:32.25 | mgeary_ | since it's purely based on the secrecy of the password |
| 20:32.50 | mgeary_ | no? |
| 20:32.56 | thebigdog | i remember there was a site that did md5 hashes that you could search on |
| 20:33.07 | orsonj | it usually takes less time based on the laziness of people who create passwords. |
| 20:33.14 | mgeary_ | correction: a dictionary-based attack is theoretically the same for all encryption types |
| 20:33.15 | mindjuju | well, this is a randomly generated 36 character password composed of randomly capitalized alpha, numeric, special character |
| 20:33.37 | PoeticIntensity | holy cow... |
| 20:33.39 | orsonj | don't bother trying |
| 20:33.48 | PoeticIntensity | and you're trying to crack it? |
| 20:33.48 | mindjuju | yeah, but i need to convey that to layman speak |
| 20:33.56 | orsonj | ah |
| 20:33.59 | mindjuju | no, i need to impress on the CEO how secure it is |
| 20:34.01 | mgeary_ | well, just figure out how long authentication takes |
| 20:34.02 | PoeticIntensity | tell em' it'll take a lifetime. :) |
| 20:34.50 | mindjuju | wanted to be able to say, yeah according to dataw0lf, king hax0r of them all, it'll take "freakin' forever" |
| 20:35.02 | mindjuju | something like that, but in print |
| 20:35.11 | PoeticIntensity | I've heard that for well-written passwords (and the one you're referring to IS), it's much easier to do social engineering than technical hacking to crack passwords. |
| 20:35.37 | beandog | passphrase > password |
| 20:36.04 | PoeticIntensity | even better than "a randomly generated 36 character password composed of randomly capitalized alpha, numeric, special character" ? |
| 20:36.07 | PoeticIntensity | heh... I don't think so. |
| 20:36.31 | PoeticIntensity | it's not even in a "language". |
| 20:36.44 | mindjuju | seems like i saw a matrix not to long ago, that was like 10 char @ 100k guess / sec - 100 years |
| 20:36.47 | mindjuju | but can't find it |
| 20:36.49 | beandog | if you know its a set length, then youre already screwed |
| 20:36.59 | PoeticIntensity | oh? |
| 20:37.00 | PoeticIntensity | how? |
| 20:37.04 | thebigdog | mindjuju, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Password_cracking |
| 20:37.16 | beandog | well, what has more possible combinations? |
| 20:37.24 | beandog | a string length of 36 characters |
| 20:37.34 | beandog | or a string length of random characters with phrases of any character types |
| 20:37.46 | wps | who are the people that have enough spare time in their lives to write articles for Wikipedia? |
| 20:38.00 | PoeticIntensity | I guess if the cracker knows the length, you're right. |
| 20:38.14 | PoeticIntensity | but as far as a cracker goes, nothing is "known" about the password. |
| 20:38.16 | beandog | Id say, at the very least, dont set a fixed length. |
| 20:38.22 | thebigdog | it does not take too long |
| 20:38.36 | PoeticIntensity | man.... heh.... |
| 20:38.38 | thebigdog | john the ripper is a good program |
| 20:38.50 | thebigdog | we used that in my security class in college |
| 20:38.55 | PoeticIntensity | between the 5,000,000 years it'd take to crack the 36-character fixed-length password... |
| 20:39.00 | beandog | cracking windows passwords is pretty simple, thats the only one Ive ever done. |
| 20:39.09 | PoeticIntensity | the 5,000,000 millenia it would take to crack the passphrase... |
| 20:39.12 | PoeticIntensity | I guess you're right. |
| 20:39.29 | beandog | the more important question is |
| 20:39.34 | beandog | is the credit card data encrypted? |
| 20:39.46 | PoeticIntensity | let's not even go there. |
| 20:39.46 | PoeticIntensity | :) |
| 20:39.48 | beandog | passwords dont mean didly if they run off with a plaintext version of your db. |
| 20:39.55 | beandog | er, dump. |
| 20:39.57 | beandog | not version |
| 20:40.06 | thebigdog | mindjuju, just encrypt your filesystem |
| 20:40.10 | PoeticIntensity | if you put your root password in a db, you deserve to have it stolen. |
| 20:40.27 | beandog | my root password is blank. No one would ever guess that! |
| 20:40.49 | mgeary_ | beandog: but if you encrypt your cc's in the db, you still need to have the key to decrypt in your code |
| 20:40.59 | beandog | mgeary_: right, Im just saying. |
| 20:40.59 | mindjuju | i'm tricky. my change my admin name to nimda and the password to nimda |
| 20:41.02 | beandog | anything is better than plain text. |
| 20:41.03 | mgeary_ | since if you're going to store ccs (bad idea, imo), you need to access the plaintext version |
| 20:41.03 | cole_joplin | bradym, I forgot to answer, yes, I will be posting tomorrow's presentation. I'll have it on my site, and will have the files available for the group's site as well. Like I did last time |
| 20:41.13 | PoeticIntensity | mgeary_, that's very true.... |
| 20:41.25 | PoeticIntensity | at my last job, we had to figure out how to keep the key separated from the db / machine... |
| 20:41.32 | beandog | mgeary_: at the very least, though, they will need two things to get it, versus just one. |
| 20:41.34 | mgeary_ | the convenience of "one click" isn't worth the pain, imo |
| 20:41.45 | mgeary_ | beandog: true. |
| 20:41.59 | mgeary_ | PoeticIntensity: what'd you do? |
| 20:42.03 | bradym | cole_joplin: thanks! :) |
| 20:42.13 | beandog | he took it home on his laptop every night. |
| 20:42.18 | beandog | and left it in his car to get stolen. :) |
| 20:42.28 | beandog | just like all those famous government breaches! |
| 20:42.32 | PoeticIntensity | mgeary_, after much research and endless hours in the office... |
| 20:42.44 | mgeary_ | ...you quit and got a better job |
| 20:42.46 | PoeticIntensity | we put the key in a PHP script, and ..... nothing else. |
| 20:42.53 | PoeticIntensity | heh... |
| 20:43.02 | PoeticIntensity | however, I did read a lot on how to obfuscate it all. |
| 20:43.08 | beandog | $super_seekrit_key_please_dont_copy_me = 'cookies'; |
| 20:43.13 | mgeary_ | heh |
| 20:43.15 | PoeticIntensity | putting the key on a different machine altogether.... |
| 20:43.39 | PoeticIntensity | you can at least make it so if they grab the php / db machine, they won't get the key. |
| 20:43.51 | PoeticIntensity | and also, if the PHP engine breaks, the key won't be displayed in plain text... |
| 20:43.57 | PoeticIntensity | but... |
| 20:44.04 | PoeticIntensity | there's always a trail back to where the key is in the code. |
| 20:44.39 | PoeticIntensity | yeah... that was interesting research. |
| 20:44.43 | beandog | and even then! |
| 20:44.51 | beandog | your local connection should be over SSL |
| 20:44.55 | beandog | so there is no sniffings of the datas. |
| 20:45.05 | thebigdog | local connection to what? |
| 20:45.11 | PoeticIntensity | your momma. |
| 20:45.13 | beandog | well if theres an intratube. |
| 20:45.16 | PoeticIntensity | BAAAAAAA HA HA HA HA HA. |
| 20:45.18 | *** kick/#uphpu [PoeticIntensity!n=bigdog@208.177.146.102.ptr.us.xo.net] by thebigdog (thebigdog) |
| 20:45.20 | thebigdog | hahahaha |
| 20:45.29 | beandog | and the villagers rejoiced |
| 20:45.35 | *** join/#uphpu PoeticIntensity (n=jason@12.110.29.162) |
| 20:45.35 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v PoeticIntensity] by ChanServ |
| 20:45.42 | beandog | I guess he hasnt setup auto-rejoin. :) |
| 20:45.43 | PoeticIntensity | HOLY FREAK.... LMAO. |
| 20:45.45 | mindjuju | actually though, for a while I was using GPG to encrypt CCs in a database |
| 20:45.54 | mindjuju | seemed like a good way to go |
| 20:45.59 | thebigdog | ~thank PoeticIntensity |
| 20:45.59 | jbot | de rien, thebigdog |
| 20:46.04 | beandog | mindjuju: how did it work out |
| 20:46.08 | mindjuju | good |
| 20:46.09 | PoeticIntensity | that was hilarious.... |
| 20:46.15 | PoeticIntensity | HILARIOUS. |
| 20:46.23 | mindjuju | had the private key down here, and the public key at the server |
| 20:46.27 | orsonj | actually, that isn't bad |
| 20:46.29 | thebigdog | beandog, if you are using socket connections you dont need ssl |
| 20:46.31 | PoeticIntensity | oh man... thebigdog.... we gotta do lunch. |
| 20:46.32 | mindjuju | then passed the encrypted in house for decrypt |
| 20:46.33 | beandog | mindjuju: no problems? wouldnt that be cpu-intensive? Although I guess its not a big deal if youre not hitting it a lot. |
| 20:46.40 | thebigdog | PoeticIntensity, you attending the meeting? |
| 20:46.44 | PoeticIntensity | I've gotta. |
| 20:46.48 | beandog | thebigdog: right, Im talking about the HTML though. |
| 20:46.48 | PoeticIntensity | I've just gotta.. |
| 20:46.57 | thebigdog | ill be there |
| 20:47.00 | mindjuju | don't forget about the GrandCentral invites |
| 20:47.06 | mindjuju | 5 up for grab |
| 20:47.07 | PoeticIntensity | Thursday... |
| 20:47.08 | beandog | not the mysql |
| 20:47.08 | thebigdog | i got to bring cole_joplin's book to him |
| 20:47.08 | PoeticIntensity | tomorrow. |
| 20:47.12 | PoeticIntensity | hmm... I'll talk to the wife. |
| 20:47.16 | PoeticIntensity | you going, beandog ? |
| 20:47.17 | thebigdog | and i need to talk with mindjuju |
| 20:47.22 | beandog | PoeticIntensity: no |
| 20:47.28 | thebigdog | its been awhile for me |
| 20:47.32 | PoeticIntensity | excellent.... I'm there, then. |
| 20:47.35 | PoeticIntensity | :) |
| 20:47.41 | thebigdog | :) |
| 20:47.54 | mindjuju | hey, ya'll know that we always go to Applebees afterwards |
| 20:48.01 | mindjuju | that's where the fun really is |
| 20:48.06 | thebigdog | no offense to cole_joplin but i go for the social aspect |
| 20:48.08 | thebigdog | :) |
| 20:48.12 | beandog | get herlo a date |
| 20:48.16 | thebigdog | too bad dataw0lf wont be there |
| 20:48.20 | PoeticIntensity | me too.... |
| 20:48.28 | PoeticIntensity | although the wisdom gained isn't a bad thing. |
| 20:48.34 | thebigdog | true that |
| 20:48.39 | PoeticIntensity | I had to use fpdf for a project once upon a time. |
| 20:48.43 | thebigdog | many different view points |
| 20:48.45 | PoeticIntensity | yup. |
| 20:49.14 | PoeticIntensity | I was just talkin' to my boss, and midst the conversation, he was amazed at the way the web developers in Utah / SLC help each other out. |
| 20:49.32 | PoeticIntensity | he's a network guru, and he said that sector is cut-throat.... no helping for fear of losing your edge. |
| 20:49.48 | PoeticIntensity | and he hates it. |
| 20:49.50 | PoeticIntensity | so.... |
| 20:49.52 | PoeticIntensity | UPHPU++ |
| 20:49.53 | beandog | its true |
| 20:49.54 | mindjuju | he should get on the IRC |
| 20:49.56 | PoeticIntensity | ~UPHPU++ |
| 20:50.00 | beandog | I unplug my co-workers cat5 cables for a good laugh |
| 20:50.01 | mindjuju | dataw0lf has legendary network skillz |
| 20:50.05 | thebigdog | really |
| 20:50.15 | thebigdog | beandog, check this out |
| 20:50.20 | beandog | bueno |
| 20:50.26 | thebigdog | i created all these voices of me |
| 20:50.35 | beandog | oh? |
| 20:50.40 | thebigdog | then logged into the hr ladies computer and for all the windows actions added my voice |
| 20:50.48 | PoeticIntensity | ooooooohhhh..... |
| 20:50.48 | thebigdog | it was great |
| 20:50.53 | PoeticIntensity | Okay... |
| 20:50.58 | beandog | hee hee |
| 20:50.59 | PoeticIntensity | I heard this idea... |
| 20:51.00 | beandog | evil. |
| 20:51.05 | thebigdog | we thought we got them all removed, but the other day we found one |
| 20:51.05 | PoeticIntensity | and I about busted my liver... |
| 20:51.08 | PoeticIntensity | ... |
| 20:51.18 | *** join/#uphpu josephscott (n=josephsc@70-58-107-229.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 20:51.21 | beandog | hee hee |
| 20:51.21 | PoeticIntensity | create a wav file of nothing but 15 minutes of silence.... |
| 20:51.34 | PoeticIntensity | and then at the end.... put either a scream.... or...... |
| 20:51.42 | PoeticIntensity | some eery voice talking like... on a phone... |
| 20:51.43 | PoeticIntensity | or.... |
| 20:51.47 | PoeticIntensity | something else... |
| 20:51.51 | _psychic_ | *the voice of god* |
| 20:51.53 | PoeticIntensity | and set that as the login-sound for someone's computer. |
| 20:51.55 | PoeticIntensity | EXACTLOY. |
| 20:51.58 | PoeticIntensity | so... |
| 20:52.02 | PoeticIntensity | they're working for 15 minutes and... |
| 20:52.03 | PoeticIntensity | then... |
| 20:52.07 | PoeticIntensity | their computer starts talking to them. |
| 20:52.08 | beandog | http://www.thinkgeek.com/gadgets/electronic/8c52/ |
| 20:52.16 | PoeticIntensity | or... |
| 20:52.19 | PoeticIntensity | .... oh man... |
| 20:52.28 | PoeticIntensity | that would hilarious. |
| 20:52.52 | thebigdog | i did that with the startup sound |
| 20:52.59 | PoeticIntensity | really? |
| 20:53.01 | PoeticIntensity | how did it go? |
| 20:53.16 | thebigdog | scarred the crap out of her cause i turned up the speakers |
| 20:53.26 | PoeticIntensity | I can only imagine... man... |
| 20:53.27 | PoeticIntensity | good times. |
| 20:53.38 | thebigdog | i said, "windows is starting..." in kinda a stupid voice |
| 20:53.56 | thebigdog | it was grewat |
| 20:54.15 | thebigdog | also we use to login to peps machines and do a screen shot of there desktop |
| 20:54.19 | PoeticIntensity | or something like... "Hey.... you really should start working a bit more.... You've been way too lazy these last few days." |
| 20:54.20 | thebigdog | then remove all the icons |
| 20:54.27 | thebigdog | and have the screen shot be the background |
| 20:54.28 | PoeticIntensity | niiiice. |
| 20:54.32 | thebigdog | that works nice |
| 20:54.35 | PoeticIntensity | yeah. |
| 20:54.49 | jsmith | Naw... you guys are missing out on the subtle ones... I like the sounds of water draining |
| 20:54.57 | PoeticIntensity | aaaah yeah... |
| 20:55.13 | jsmith | Then pop up a message saying "Water detected in the USB port" |
| 20:55.26 | jsmith | That'll drive 'em nuts :-) |
| 20:55.27 | PoeticIntensity | "or the sound of rats scurrying about" |
| 20:55.40 | PoeticIntensity | and the occasional squeak. |
| 20:55.57 | PoeticIntensity | ...... I'm glad I use Linux. |
| 20:56.03 | jsmith | Back in the DOS days, I had one that would sound like trickling water, and then say "Water detected in drive A" and then spin the floppy drive and say "Starting spin cycle" |
| 20:56.25 | jsmith | I had it set to come on randomly... so it would only happen every couple of months |
| 20:56.27 | jsmith | It was great fun |
| 20:56.36 | thebigdog | PoeticIntensity, its even better on linux |
| 20:56.54 | thebigdog | if i have access to yoru machine i just need a livecd |
| 20:56.56 | PoeticIntensity | yeah... it's just comforting that I'm the only one in the company who has a clue what Linux even is. |
| 20:57.11 | PoeticIntensity | (slight exaggeration) |
| 20:57.21 | PoeticIntensity | there will be no pranks pulled on this developer. |
| 20:57.33 | PoeticIntensity | at least while I'm working. |
| 20:57.34 | PoeticIntensity | :) |
| 20:57.40 | thebigdog | :) |
| 20:57.43 | thebigdog | jsmith, that is funny |
| 21:00.47 | jsmith | Still makes me chuckle to this day just thinking about it |
| 21:07.36 | herlo | beandog: I won't be there |
| 21:09.22 | beandog | buh |
| 21:09.40 | herlo | beandog: when is it? |
| 21:09.48 | beandog | tomorrow I think |
| 21:11.21 | herlo | beandog: yeah, I am in Mountain View, Ca |
| 21:26.05 | PoeticIntensity | were you serious about not coming, beandog ? |
| 21:27.30 | beandog | yes |
| 21:27.36 | beandog | pdf-- |
| 21:27.38 | beandog | no me interesa |
| 21:28.56 | wps | awesome |
| 21:29.25 | wps | I just asked a coworker for some logos and he pasted them into a powerpoint file to send to me! |
| 21:29.35 | wps | how nice of him |
| 21:29.39 | bradym | lol |
| 21:30.56 | timinator | LOL |
| 21:31.19 | wps | I wouldn't want jpgs floating around unrestrained in an email |
| 21:31.47 | timinator | also had a ton in Word |
| 21:31.56 | wps | microsoft word document == digital envelop |
| 21:32.07 | wps | microsoft power point document == digital box |
| 21:32.16 | wps | they are required for sending things electronically |
| 21:32.34 | herlo | wps: microsoftw word document == piece of crap |
| 21:32.49 | wps | you're just jealous |
| 21:32.51 | herlo | wps: microsoft powerpoint document == bigger piece of crap |
| 21:32.52 | timinator | M$Word logos suck for color seps |
| 21:33.03 | timinator | herlo: LOL |
| 21:33.06 | herlo | microsoft == biggest piece of crap ever |
| 21:33.08 | mindjuju | did ya'll here what happened at the OOXML ISO meet? |
| 21:33.11 | herlo | timinator: you know it |
| 21:33.16 | herlo | mindjuju: no, what? |
| 21:33.30 | herlo | mindjuju: there's a petition to ban it though |
| 21:33.34 | mindjuju | Only microsoft was allowed in the vote for approval |
| 21:33.41 | mindjuju | i'll find you the article |
| 21:33.42 | herlo | http://www.noooxml.org/petition |
| 21:34.04 | mindjuju | IBM and the other guy, can't remember who weren't allowed in the room to vote because "there wasn't enough room for them" |
| 21:55.18 | wps | do you have to escape curly braces within a string you are echoing out? |
| 21:58.54 | orsonj | probably, curly braces can be used to denote a variable within a string. ex: echo "hello {$name[first]}" |
| 21:59.10 | wps | how do you escape them? |
| 21:59.12 | wps | \ ? |
| 21:59.23 | orsonj | if you don't have a $ sign right after, I think your fine |
| 21:59.26 | orsonj | so {\ |
| 21:59.31 | orsonj | so {\$ |
| 21:59.47 | wps | doesn't the escape character come before? |
| 21:59.57 | orsonj | well it is escaping the $ |
| 22:00.05 | *** join/#uphpu jsmith (n=jsmith@h46055150.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 22:00.08 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v jsmith] by ChanServ |
| 22:00.09 | orsonj | that way the { and the $ aren't next to each other |
| 22:00.16 | orsonj | I think it is fine that way. |
| 22:01.11 | wps | here's my string |
| 22:01.13 | bradym | if the { is inside of quotes, you should be fine |
| 22:01.21 | wps | it's choking on it |
| 22:01.26 | wps | echo '<a onclick="javascript:Effect.Combo(\'' . $webinar['id'] . '\', {duration: 0.5});" class="details_link">details</a>'; |
| 22:01.43 | wps | as you can see, I have escaped the single ticks |
| 22:01.55 | wps | what do you think it's choking on? the curlies? the semi colon? |
| 22:03.09 | wps | the period in the javascript function name? |
| 22:03.22 | wps | what would be the preferred/proper way to echo out something like this? |
| 22:03.26 | wps | break out of PHP for a line? |
| 22:03.32 | orsonj | well, yest it does look fine. /me looks for a php server |
| 22:03.34 | bradym | since you're using single quotes, i'm suprised it's having problems at all |
| 22:04.08 | wps | arg |
| 22:04.26 | bradym | it's working fine on my test box |
| 22:05.23 | orsonj | likewise |
| 22:05.38 | wps | weird… I pinned it down |
| 22:05.47 | wps | it's where I am escaping the single ticks |
| 22:05.59 | wps | when I remove that it works |
| 22:06.05 | bradym | what version of php? |
| 22:06.09 | wps | 4 :( |
| 22:06.49 | orsonj | I suppose you could try double quotes on the outside |
| 22:07.22 | wps | nope |
| 22:08.04 | bradym | odd.. just tried it on php 4.4.7 and it works fine there too |
| 22:09.08 | orsonj | echo "<a onclick=\"javascript:Effect.Combo('" . $webinar['id'] . "', {duration: 0.5});\" class=\"details_link\">details</a>"; |
| 22:10.03 | orsonj | or if you had to $singlequote = "'"; |
| 22:10.05 | orsonj | ugly though |
| 22:11.08 | bradym | i often drop out of php for stuff like this: <a onclick="javascript:Effect.Combo('<?= $webinar['id'] ?>', {duration: 0.5});" class="details_link">details</a> |
| 22:11.47 | PoeticIntensity | What error are you getting, wps ? |
| 22:11.54 | wps | my loop dies |
| 22:12.07 | *** join/#uphpu josephscott (n=josephsc@70-58-107-229.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 22:12.30 | PoeticIntensity | any error logged? |
| 22:12.35 | PoeticIntensity | or just.... death... |
| 22:12.42 | PoeticIntensity | to the loop. |
| 22:15.17 | wps | unfortunately, I don't even know where the logs are on this server |
| 22:15.24 | wps | no errors sent to the display |
| 22:19.24 | PoeticIntensity | :-T |
| 22:19.37 | PoeticIntensity | I use logs so much, I'd....... I..... I wouldn't know what to do without em'. |
| 22:19.39 | PoeticIntensity | :-T |
| 22:19.52 | PoeticIntensity | ~hug apache logs |
| 22:19.53 | jbot | ACTION jumps into apache logs's lap and huggles and *hugs* apache logs |
| 22:22.45 | wps | k… something is really jacked |
| 22:22.54 | wps | it's puking on just this: |
| 22:22.58 | wps | echo '<a onclick="\'" class="details_link">details</a>'; |
| 22:23.17 | wps | it's the escape + single tick that it's puking on |
| 22:23.33 | PoeticIntensity | wps is right. |
| 22:23.34 | PoeticIntensity | that's jacked. |
| 22:23.45 | PoeticIntensity | any way you can restart php? |
| 22:25.52 | orsonj | try '<a onclick="''" ... '; |
| 22:26.04 | orsonj | sometime you escape a ' by using 2 ( '' ) |
| 22:27.45 | wps | answer! |
| 22:27.52 | wps | just called the guy who build the system |
| 22:27.59 | wps | the PHP is being executed via eval() |
| 22:28.05 | wps | I had to double-escape the single ticks |
| 22:28.24 | *** join/#uphpu _psychic_ (n=_psychic@66.7.114.126) |
| 22:28.24 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v _psychic_] by ChanServ |
| 22:32.03 | jsmith | wps: Juck... |
| 22:32.10 | jsmith | s/Juck/Yuck/ |
| 22:32.17 | wps | agreed :( |
| 22:34.32 | cole_joplin | just got a phone call from a guy wanting a fultime php guy |
| 22:34.48 | cole_joplin | He'll be posting a job for the group here in a few |
| 22:34.55 | cole_joplin | I'm taken |
| 22:35.04 | cole_joplin | so anyone looking..it's in Orem |
| 22:36.53 | orsonj | wps: what does the final look like? |
| 22:37.07 | wps | the page I'm working on? |
| 22:41.05 | orsonj | no, the line with the escaping |
| 22:43.37 | *** join/#uphpu webGuRu (n=chatzill@c-67-182-251-231.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:50.01 | dataw0lf | why have I been highlighted? |
| 22:50.21 | mindjuju | uh, soembody was talking about networking skillz, i said you had the best |
| 22:50.32 | dataw0lf | ah |
| 22:50.39 | dataw0lf | does someone need help? |
| 22:51.10 | mindjuju | and I also was wonderin' how long it would take to brute a 36 character alpha, numeric, special char, randomly created, randomly capitailed password |
| 22:51.21 | mindjuju | in 128 AES |
| 22:51.51 | mindjuju | but no worries now, i sent the email off already |
| 22:51.57 | dataw0lf | to brute it? |
| 22:52.03 | mindjuju | brute password attack |
| 22:52.03 | dataw0lf | alpha/numeric/special? |
| 22:52.07 | mindjuju | yeah |
| 22:52.12 | dataw0lf | probably like, forever |
| 22:52.17 | dataw0lf | no worries on that frnot |
| 22:52.21 | dataw0lf | s/frnot/front |
| 22:52.24 | mindjuju | it's so funny you say that |
| 22:53.02 | dataw0lf | why's that? |
| 22:53.26 | mindjuju | cause here is what i said |
| 22:53.27 | mindjuju | (2:34:56 PM) mindjuju: wanted to be able to say, yeah according to dataw0lf, king hax0r of them all, it'll take "freakin' forever" |
| 22:53.34 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 22:53.39 | dataw0lf | good call, my friend! |
| 22:54.03 | mindjuju | good times |
| 22:55.28 | *** part/#uphpu mgeary_ (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 23:15.49 | timinator | anyone here? |
| 23:16.44 | mindjuju | yo sup |
| 23:28.26 | timinator | sorry mindjuju |
| 23:28.42 | timinator | I was looking for a slang term for a low level cert |
| 23:29.04 | timinator | like a turbo SSL cert from Godaddy at $17 /yr |
| 23:29.17 | timinator | some slang, almost insulting, term |
| 23:32.49 | timinator | but it's no big deal... I already sent the email :) |
| 23:33.26 | timinator | I'm out guys.... late |
| 23:43.09 | *** part/#uphpu cole_joplin (n=Cole@c-67-166-64-239.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:43.20 | beandog | oy |
| 23:43.23 | beandog | scope creep-- |
| 23:43.33 | mindjuju | ugh, hate scope creep |
| 23:43.49 | mindjuju | unless you've been to the macnewbold school of management |
| 23:43.59 | mindjuju | then scope creep = good thing |
| 23:44.02 | beandog | I gotta learn to speak up more when I see something that doesnt quite look good |
| 23:44.22 | beandog | otherwise, Im halfway done with the project and gotta rip it out |
| 23:44.23 | beandog | meh. |
| 23:44.26 | beandog | oh well. |
| 23:44.40 | beandog | mindjuju: macnewbold school of management? eh? |
| 23:44.53 | mindjuju | dude, that guy has some crazy business savvy |
| 23:45.29 | mindjuju | yeah, he scopes out the project really good, and everytime it starts to creep he says, not a prob, it of course changes delivery date and costs x more |
| 23:45.45 | mindjuju | the guy is a champ at business |
| 23:45.53 | beandog | well, he is my boss |
| 23:46.12 | mindjuju | did i know that? |
| 23:46.13 | beandog | how the heckers do you change a db to use innodb by default |
| 23:46.57 | mindjuju | oh cool. i knew some guy in the irc with the word dragon in his nick worked there |
| 23:47.05 | beandog | yah he still does |
| 23:47.06 | mindjuju | i think lone_wanderer worked there a little while, right? |
| 23:47.08 | beandog | he's sitting next ot me |
| 23:47.11 | beandog | yah, he's gone :( |
| 23:47.28 | beandog | dragonleech |
| 23:47.35 | mindjuju | yup, that was it |
| 23:47.46 | mindjuju | tell him i said 'sup |
| 23:47.50 | beandog | ok |
| 23:47.55 | mindjuju | and nod your head when you say it |
| 23:48.10 | beandog | buenos |
| 23:48.58 | bradym | beandog: set default-table-type=innodb in my.cnf and restart mysql |
| 23:49.02 | mindjuju | oh yeah, you had problem with administrative assistant, right? |
| 23:49.14 | mindjuju | like she didn't understand everything you said or something |
| 23:49.17 | beandog | mindjuju: huh? |
| 23:49.30 | beandog | bradym: just for this database though. :T |
| 23:49.37 | bradym | oh |
| 23:50.35 | beandog | oh well, really not important. |
| 23:50.37 | beandog | would be nice is all. |
| 23:52.43 | bradym | yeah it would |