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| 01:41.36 | Utah_Dave | later |
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| 15:40.40 | Ritter | g'morning |
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| 16:41.11 | thebigdog | mornin all |
| 16:43.00 | mgeary | morning |
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| 17:00.12 | mgeary | hey |
| 17:00.31 | mgeary | any of you mac users had any luck with ORM diagramming programs? |
| 17:00.41 | mgeary | something simple |
| 17:01.02 | mgeary | i'd *love* something that could go back and forth from a MySQL schema dump |
| 17:02.36 | mgeary | *crickets chirp* |
| 17:10.54 | Ritter | heh |
| 17:11.01 | Ritter | g'morning mgeary |
| 17:11.13 | mgeary | hi |
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| 18:09.52 | timinator | I'm a mac user, but I just use phpMyAdmin |
| 18:19.37 | wps | real men use the command line |
| 18:21.01 | mgeary | try showing the command line to your client and explaining foreign keys |
| 18:21.14 | timinator | ya |
| 18:21.23 | mgeary | 'course, same goes for pma |
| 18:21.32 | mgeary | i'm checking out MacSQL. looks promising |
| 18:21.33 | timinator | and I like the Export to Excel |
| 18:46.55 | timinator | yawn |
| 18:47.25 | mgeary | 'bout time for you to get out o' here timinator |
| 18:47.28 | mgeary | ;) |
| 18:48.08 | timinator | not really... I was leaving early last week because I had family in town from KC |
| 18:49.01 | mgeary | yeah, whatever |
| 18:49.05 | mgeary | we believe you |
| 18:49.06 | timinator | they've left, so I'm back on from 5am to 5pm |
| 18:49.08 | timinator | LOL |
| 18:49.22 | timinator | 5ish to 5ish |
| 18:50.18 | timinator | plus many Saturdays..... |
| 18:50.25 | timinator | man, I'm getting too old for this |
| 18:58.56 | timinator | LOL |
| 18:59.18 | timinator | sticken' it to da man!!! |
| 18:59.33 | timinator | unfortunately, I'm self employeed |
| 19:00.20 | timinator | LOL |
| 19:00.20 | wps | anyone seen Palm's "big" announcement today? |
| 19:00.20 | wps | their revolutionary "new" product? |
| 19:00.20 | wps | it's stupid |
| 19:00.22 | wps | it's a laptop sized PDA |
| 19:00.28 | timinator | LOL |
| 19:00.33 | wps | I don't understand why anyone would buy one |
| 19:00.37 | timinator | ya, that's practical |
| 19:00.42 | wps | perhaps if laptops didn't exist |
| 19:01.14 | wps | yes, I agree with them that there are times that you need a larger screen and keyboard (from your smart phone), but everyone already has a laptop |
| 19:01.15 | timinator | sounds like the "Padd" from Star Trek |
| 19:01.44 | wps | why would they buy and carry around another keyboard device? |
| 19:01.45 | wps | that's stupid |
| 19:02.11 | wps | especially when laptops do that and so much more? |
| 19:02.51 | wps | one "feature" is that Foleo is instant on (no boot up), but my Apple laptop wakes up from sleep instantly already |
| 19:03.08 | wps | sorry, Palm… you're nuts |
| 19:03.42 | timinator | for sure.... if it's flash media, how big is the drive? |
| 19:04.22 | wps | doesn't need to be big for what they are selling it for… just an extension to your PDA/smart phone… a screen and a keyboard |
| 19:04.31 | wps | but that's stupid… just sync your device with your laptop |
| 19:20.57 | timinator | ~seen mindjuju |
| 19:21.33 | jbot | mindjuju <n=mindjuju@65-121-75-195.dia.static.qwest.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #uphpu, 12d 18h 12m 58s ago, saying: 'macnewbold'. |
| 19:27.49 | Lone_Wanderer | Somebody kill me now! |
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| 19:55.52 | thebigdog | ~seen beandog |
| 19:56.22 | jbot | beandog <n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 6d 21h 47m 20s ago, saying: 'gahbage.'. |
| 19:56.57 | thebigdog | anyone here work for xmission? |
| 19:57.03 | thebigdog | i thought we had someone who did |
| 19:58.00 | jsmith | Not that I know of, but you can always jump on irc.xmission.com |
| 19:58.05 | jsmith | There are plenty of xmission folks there |
| 19:58.31 | thebigdog | yeah |
| 19:58.46 | thebigdog | i just noticed they took away their gentoo mirror |
| 20:00.30 | jsmith | Oh? |
| 20:01.26 | wps | (completely sincere in this question) what do you mean by that jsmith? |
| 20:01.26 | thebigdog | i hate ubuntu |
| 20:01.44 | thebigdog | he is trying to piss me off i think |
| 20:01.46 | thebigdog | :) |
| 20:01.52 | timinator | BRB... Meeting |
| 20:02.14 | jsmith | wps: I mean it this way... many of the same type of people I saw running Gentoo (spouting things about how awesome it was because it was compiled with -funroll-loops, etc.) and now running Ubuntu |
| 20:02.25 | wps | ah |
| 20:02.34 | jsmith | Spouting how great and wonderful it is, without having what I consider really valid reasons |
| 20:02.43 | wps | gotcha |
| 20:02.51 | wps | it's great because it's great |
| 20:02.59 | wps | yo |
| 20:03.19 | thebigdog | lol |
| 20:03.26 | thebigdog | bigdog runs -funroll-loops 4 |
| 20:03.29 | Lone_Wanderer | So yesterday I did a wget --mirror on a web site that we're working on |
| 20:03.37 | Lone_Wanderer | and today some pages are missing (it's not hosted with us) |
| 20:03.53 | jsmith | Seriously... one minute it's "I compiled it myself for maximum efficiency" and the next it's "I don't care that they added proprietary goop -- look at the eye candy!" |
| 20:03.54 | Lone_Wanderer | and my boss comes to me and says "That copying thing you did yesterday, it broke their web site." |
| 20:04.05 | Lone_Wanderer | So I pulled it up on my machine and it works fine. |
| 20:04.14 | thebigdog | Lone_Wanderer, nice |
| 20:04.16 | Lone_Wanderer | And she goes "But in IE, it's broken!" |
| 20:04.19 | thebigdog | jsmith, how true! |
| 20:04.25 | Lone_Wanderer | So I check on IE, and... it's giving a 404. |
| 20:04.38 | Lone_Wanderer | For the exact same page that I can see just fine on my machine in FF, IE is giving a 404. |
| 20:04.59 | thebigdog | lol |
| 20:05.00 | thebigdog | what a pain |
| 20:05.03 | thebigdog | i hate ie |
| 20:05.54 | thebigdog | jsmith, my problem is that i hate eye candy...i have a minimalistic desktop |
| 20:06.31 | jsmith | thebigdog: Me too... I just want something that works, has a clean upgrade path, and is easy to maintain. |
| 20:06.49 | thebigdog | ubuntu is pretty nice |
| 20:06.59 | thebigdog | java on gentoo rocks...so i like gentoo for that |
| 20:07.06 | Lone_Wanderer | And she's going (keep in mind it's not hosted with us) "Well we need to fix it. We need to do SOMETHING. We can't just leave it broken." |
| 20:10.21 | mgeary | man. highly normalized databases are great... but they can sure make complex reports... complicated |
| 20:10.42 | mgeary | 'course in this case, it's not really the normalization. it's just a complex issue |
| 20:10.44 | thebigdog | yeah..i usually create views for all my reports |
| 20:10.56 | mgeary | now THAT is a great idea. duh |
| 20:10.57 | thebigdog | and lace them with sps |
| 20:11.37 | mgeary | though views still don't help if you need to convert rows to columns |
| 20:12.12 | thebigdog | that is what a function is for |
| 20:12.57 | mgeary | i've got zero experience with mysql functions :/ |
| 20:13.04 | mgeary | good time to get some |
| 20:13.25 | mgeary | well, good *reason*, anyway. |
| 20:13.36 | Lone_Wanderer | does mysql even have a language you can write functions in? |
| 20:13.40 | mgeary | it does now |
| 20:13.46 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 20:13.56 | thebigdog | yeah |
| 20:14.05 | thebigdog | but it is not as good as pgsql imho |
| 20:14.15 | Lone_Wanderer | of course not ;) |
| 20:14.16 | mgeary | possibly so |
| 20:19.20 | thebigdog | http://strennery.wordpress.com/2007/05/27/video-ufc-71-liddell-vs-jackson/ |
| 20:22.47 | mgeary | eeh. a bunch of dancing around, and then one guy whaling on another guy when he's down. not sure i see the point |
| 20:23.02 | thebigdog | lol |
| 20:23.23 | thebigdog | that was a crappy ppv |
| 20:23.30 | thebigdog | good thing i did not get it |
| 20:24.53 | mgeary | btw, thebigdog, you said you're descended from Paul Stewart, right? Son of Andrew Jackson Stewart? |
| 20:25.03 | thebigdog | y |
| 20:25.19 | mgeary | Paul is your grandfather? |
| 20:25.26 | thebigdog | great grandfather |
| 20:25.39 | mgeary | okay. he was my grandfather's half-brother |
| 20:25.47 | mgeary | so i'm a generation older than you :) |
| 20:25.48 | thebigdog | oh nice |
| 20:26.07 | thebigdog | yeah...too bad i dont get any inheritance from it |
| 20:26.37 | Lone_Wanderer | Is Andrew Jackson Stewart a famous guy, or just a common ancestor? |
| 20:26.37 | mgeary | heh. yeah, the most inheritance i got from my grandfather Stewart was the five bucks he palmed me while in the sealing room in the temple :D |
| 20:26.50 | mgeary | Lone_Wanderer: common ancestor. But he owned all the Sundance area |
| 20:26.55 | Lone_Wanderer | oh cool |
| 20:27.27 | Lone_Wanderer | why did he give you five bucks? |
| 20:27.27 | mgeary | (when i got married ^^) |
| 20:27.27 | thebigdog | lol |
| 20:27.28 | Lone_Wanderer | did he lose a bet? ;) |
| 20:27.28 | thebigdog | atleast you got that |
| 20:27.28 | mgeary | heh |
| 20:27.54 | thebigdog | my grandparents and parents got some nice inheritance and they are still getting some |
| 20:28.19 | Lone_Wanderer | My Dad owns shares in an oil well. He gets checks from them regularly. |
| 20:28.30 | thebigdog | lol |
| 20:28.34 | Lone_Wanderer | Up in Canada. They put all of the money from it into their retirement fund. |
| 20:28.43 | thebigdog | that is better than nothing for sure |
| 20:28.52 | Lone_Wanderer | I think he makes about $5 a month. $5 Canadian, so that's like, 20 cents US. |
| 20:29.04 | mgeary | sweeet |
| 20:29.44 | thebigdog | all of my grandma's siblings got nice lots at sundance |
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| 20:30.28 | thebigdog | i do get some benefits of using their cabin |
| 20:31.46 | thebigdog | mgeary, did your grandfather get land in idaho too? |
| 20:33.32 | timinator | So, what's the difference in MySQL tables setup in utf8_general_ci and latin1_swedish_ci Collation? |
| 20:34.46 | thebigdog | utf8 vs latin1_swedish |
| 20:39.26 | thebigdog | timinator, did that help |
| 20:39.50 | timinator | not really |
| 20:40.29 | timinator | I've set up several of both.... and I haven't seen a difference |
| 20:40.54 | thebigdog | are you familiar with character encodings? |
| 20:41.10 | timinator | not a ton |
| 20:41.45 | mgeary | thebigdog: nope |
| 20:41.55 | thebigdog | they are 2 different character encodings |
| 20:42.01 | timinator | ya, that's a nope for me |
| 20:42.17 | mgeary | heh. my nope was re: land in ID |
| 20:42.24 | thebigdog | yeah |
| 20:42.32 | timinator | LOL |
| 20:42.38 | thebigdog | ~wiki character encodings |
| 20:42.43 | timinator | I am |
| 20:43.31 | thebigdog | if you are using english then you probably wont see much difference |
| 20:43.43 | thebigdog | if you are using other langs then you will probably see the difference |
| 20:44.40 | timinator | I see |
| 20:44.54 | timinator | thanks thebigdog |
| 20:44.55 | thebigdog | ~wiki iso 8859-1 |
| 20:45.55 | thebigdog | english is a latin lang |
| 20:46.04 | thebigdog | so you are using the swedish verison of latin1 |
| 20:46.18 | mgeary | ...which is the default |
| 20:46.25 | timinator | should I be using something else? |
| 20:46.40 | thebigdog | i personally use utf8 whenever i can |
| 20:46.47 | mgeary | timinator: what's your problem. i don't see it stated above |
| 20:46.49 | mgeary | ? |
| 20:46.50 | timinator | why's that |
| 20:47.15 | thebigdog | unicode |
| 20:47.22 | timinator | I don't have a prob.... I just realized that I'm using more than one char set and didn't know how that would affect the data |
| 20:47.28 | mgeary | ahh |
| 20:47.35 | timinator | some tables are one way, some another |
| 20:47.59 | thebigdog | utf8 is variable bit encoding |
| 20:47.59 | mgeary | it could come in to play if you ever had "high-ascii" characters from one table going in to another table |
| 20:48.05 | timinator | ~wiki unicode |
| 20:48.13 | mgeary | including such chars as: ü, á, ™, ©, etc |
| 20:49.19 | mgeary | also affects curly quotes |
| 20:49.41 | timinator | fo sho |
| 20:51.30 | thebigdog | timinator, in response to why i use it is because xml encoding is done in utf8 and utf16...which is why i got into using it and never looked back |
| 20:51.40 | thebigdog | mgeary has a great point too |
| 20:51.48 | thebigdog | utf8 is a superset of ascii |
| 20:52.09 | thebigdog | if you are using ascii and encode it to utf8 then you will not have any issues, likely not |
| 20:52.24 | timinator | good advise |
| 20:52.26 | timinator | thanks guys |
| 20:53.04 | thebigdog | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-8#Advantages_and_disadvantages |
| 20:53.28 | thebigdog | and java uses utf8 too |
| 20:54.25 | thebigdog | this goes along with unicode |
| 20:54.30 | thebigdog | and the move to unicode support |
| 20:54.37 | thebigdog | php is working on that now |
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| 21:14.26 | mgeary | awesome. strtotime("last sunday") works. how cool is that? |
| 21:14.58 | mgeary | that's a lot easier than just about every alternative way of finding the date of the beginning of the current week |
| 21:15.10 | jsmith | mgeary: Yup |
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| 22:26.25 | mgeary | later folks |
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| 23:03.59 | timinator | anyone still around? |
| 23:04.12 | timinator | I'm stumped on something |
| 23:04.19 | timinator | I've got a form |
| 23:04.31 | timinator | that works in every other browser other than Explorer |
| 23:05.49 | timinator | Can Explorer handle something like this: <input name=\"jags[".$j."][pcs]\" type=\"text\" size=\"3\" /> |
| 23:07.08 | timinator | oops, that's the PHP..... the HTML would look like this: <input name="jags[0][pcs]" type="text" size="3" /> |
| 23:11.14 | Lone_Wanderer | timinator: I don't know :( sorry |
| 23:11.22 | timinator | NP |
| 23:11.38 | timinator | It all works in FF and Camino and Safari |
| 23:11.47 | timinator | and I've tested other things in IE |
| 23:11.49 | bradym | i've used array notation before and it's worked fine, but i've never tried with multi-dimension |
| 23:11.53 | timinator | but, dang |
| 23:11.55 | Lone_Wanderer | afaik it doesn't matter to the browser what the form's input names are, but... you know IE. |
| 23:12.05 | timinator | right |
| 23:12.16 | timinator | I'd assume the same.... but it's not working |
| 23:12.19 | timinator | uurgh |
| 23:12.41 | timinator | I'll figure it out, no worries |
| 23:23.29 | timinator | I figured it out.... |
| 23:23.52 | timinator | I had the dang </form> before the Submit button |
| 23:24.02 | timinator | stupid timinator |
| 23:24.16 | timinator | I hate those stupid mistakes |
| 23:34.54 | timinator | I'm out guys... late |
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