| 00:23.30 | *** part/#uphpu mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 01:13.04 | mindjuju | lone_wanderer , did you find what you needed, or do you still need help wth that xp box? |
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| 02:35.24 | mindjuju | it's stuff like this that gives me a headache |
| 02:35.25 | mindjuju | Silverlight integrates very well with Ajax and JavaScript. |
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| 03:31.27 | mindjuju | man, what i wouldn't give for a decent background |
| 03:32.14 | mindjuju | oh, i meant for this picture composite picture i'm making |
| 03:32.26 | jsmith | Oh, for your greenscreen stuff? |
| 03:32.29 | mindjuju | seem to be going through hundreds of images, but just can't find the "right one" |
| 03:32.34 | mindjuju | nope, another thing |
| 03:32.37 | jsmith | I got those on eBay too... |
| 03:32.41 | jsmith | Oh |
| 03:32.48 | mindjuju | greenscreen, bought one off ebay |
| 03:32.55 | mindjuju | a nice 10' x 24' |
| 03:32.59 | jsmith | Schweet! |
| 03:33.02 | mindjuju | $120, plus shipping |
| 03:33.08 | mindjuju | yeah, about $100 less than local |
| 03:33.52 | jsmith | Very nice. |
| 03:33.59 | mindjuju | what are you doing up so late? |
| 03:34.05 | mindjuju | must be near 11p there |
| 03:34.07 | jsmith | Hacking on the second edition of my book |
| 03:34.12 | jsmith | 11:34, to be exact |
| 03:34.41 | mindjuju | i like your business card, by the way |
| 03:34.48 | mindjuju | is it really your signature? |
| 03:37.39 | mindjuju | ~seen timriker |
| 03:37.57 | jbot | timriker <n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 10h 1m 52s ago, saying: 'JeffM2501: since what?'. |
| 03:38.29 | jsmith | mindjuju: Of course not! |
| 03:38.39 | jsmith | mindjuju: Not my photo either :-) |
| 03:39.08 | mindjuju | cool web site |
| 03:40.06 | mindjuju | i was looking up how to spell your name for those arrivaltel folks, just cause, you know, sometimes a name is spelled differently than is normal and is always good to double check, so i googled you til i found your site and verified the spelling |
| 03:40.15 | mindjuju | course, those guys ain't emailed me back yet! |
| 03:40.18 | mindjuju | i'll have to call them |
| 03:40.28 | jsmith | Yeah, they're a tad bit busy |
| 03:40.37 | jsmith | Give them a call, and they'll hook you up. |
| 03:40.50 | jsmith | If you need me to knock some heads together, let me know. |
| 03:41.12 | mindjuju | nah, i'll call them on the phone here in the next couple of days |
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| 12:12.26 | Utah_Dave | man, it's early! |
| 12:23.33 | Utah_Dave | $title |
| 12:24.14 | Utah_Dave | test |
| 12:24.50 | Utah_Dave | tst |
| 12:25.16 | Utah_Dave | test |
| 12:25.58 | Utah_Dave | $track |
| 12:26.00 | Utah_Dave | /track |
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| 15:18.00 | timinator | ~seen macnewbold |
| 15:18.36 | jbot | macnewbold <n=mac@cg.dsl.xmission.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #flyspray, 6d 18h 33m 49s ago, saying: 'I don't use it though'. |
| 15:18.36 | timinator | aw, what was that command? |
| 15:18.43 | timinator | ah, cool |
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| 15:46.42 | mgeary | ~ahoy |
| 15:48.29 | beandog | ~hola |
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| 15:55.01 | Lone_Wanderer | dataw0lf: ping |
| 15:57.20 | beandog | hey Lone_Wanderer |
| 15:57.28 | Lone_Wanderer | hello |
| 15:57.36 | beandog | hows it going over there |
| 15:57.39 | Lone_Wanderer | So I think I'm going to join the national guard. |
| 15:57.59 | Lone_Wanderer | be a weekend warrior |
| 15:58.34 | beandog | that's cool |
| 15:59.28 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah. They have some pretty good options in Utah. Like, special forces and intel. |
| 16:00.29 | Lone_Wanderer | So I want to ask DW about the different options. Get his take on it. |
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| 16:15.38 | beandog | hola |
| 16:17.37 | Lone_Wanderer | In the Zend framework, do you have to register controllers? |
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| 16:25.00 | mindjuju | lone_wanderer , you still around? |
| 16:25.30 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah |
| 16:30.44 | *** join/#uphpu gibba[w] (n=gibbawho@209-253-35-18.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 16:32.41 | Lone_Wanderer | grrrrrr |
| 16:35.24 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh my goodness. This is so hideously complicated. |
| 16:41.22 | Ritter | I thought the point of a framework was to make things easy |
| 16:41.22 | Lone_Wanderer | Take a look at the manual for the Zend framework. |
| 16:41.28 | Ritter | I have |
| 16:41.38 | Ritter | I've looked at a few frameworks |
| 16:41.39 | Lone_Wanderer | It doesn't seem over-engineered to you? |
| 16:41.59 | Ritter | I wouldnt expect anything less from Zend |
| 16:42.06 | Lone_Wanderer | Good point. |
| 16:42.17 | Ritter | <3 php .. but really, its over-engineered too |
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| 16:53.10 | PoeticIntensity | ~wake thebigdog |
| 16:53.28 | jbot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on thebigdog and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" |
| 16:57.31 | thebigdog | yes |
| 16:58.11 | PoeticIntensity | hey.... |
| 16:58.11 | PoeticIntensity | sorry to bug ys... |
| 16:58.12 | PoeticIntensity | ya... |
| 16:58.12 | thebigdog | np |
| 16:58.24 | PoeticIntensity | Do you have any references on MySQL's stability or instability in the "advanced features" arena? First and foremost - transactions... ? |
| 16:58.33 | PoeticIntensity | I'm gonna be doing nothing but scouring the web for resources. |
| 16:58.39 | PoeticIntensity | today at least.... |
| 16:59.01 | thebigdog | you mean reading on it |
| 16:59.14 | PoeticIntensity | yeah. |
| 16:59.23 | PoeticIntensity | I've gotta back up any claims I make that PG is more stable. |
| 16:59.30 | thebigdog | i have a couple books on mysql that are ok |
| 16:59.43 | PoeticIntensity | I want to find out beyond any flame wars that PG *really is* more stable in those features. |
| 16:59.48 | thebigdog | check the mysql docs and the innodb docs for transactions |
| 17:00.16 | PoeticIntensity | right.... |
| 17:00.17 | thebigdog | well time is your biggest weapn |
| 17:00.36 | thebigdog | pg has had them for years...allowing for bugs to be cleaned up |
| 17:00.39 | PoeticIntensity | my problem there is .... thinking that MySQL is just gonna come out and flat-out tell us that it's less stable than PG. |
| 17:00.43 | thebigdog | mysql is new and you will run into issues |
| 17:00.46 | PoeticIntensity | yeah... I've got that in my belt. |
| 17:01.05 | PoeticIntensity | my problem is - I don't know anyone personally that has ever run into problems using transactions in innodb. |
| 17:01.19 | PoeticIntensity | In fact, I'm having a hard time even finding people who have actually used them. |
| 17:01.24 | PoeticIntensity | (in MySQL) |
| 17:01.46 | PoeticIntensity | which, in and of itself, is a testament to its possible instability. |
| 17:01.49 | thebigdog | i have had transaction issues with innodb |
| 17:02.03 | PoeticIntensity | ok... that helps. |
| 17:02.08 | thebigdog | my issue where with rollbacks |
| 17:02.19 | thebigdog | innodb did not support rollbacks the way i wanted |
| 17:02.55 | thebigdog | for example i would have like 10 inserts into tables...but if i failed then it would rollback like half of them |
| 17:03.02 | thebigdog | leaving the other there |
| 17:03.36 | PoeticIntensity | wow. |
| 17:03.51 | PoeticIntensity | any info on what version of Mysql you were using? |
| 17:04.00 | thebigdog | mysql 4 |
| 17:04.10 | PoeticIntensity | k |
| 17:04.20 | thebigdog | not sure the actual version number |
| 17:04.28 | thebigdog | but it was not the new 5 |
| 17:04.37 | PoeticIntensity | thanks for your help, thebigdog, .... seriously... I'm just interested in figuring out exactly what the best option for our company is right now. |
| 17:04.43 | thebigdog | this was back when wps and i were working on a project together |
| 17:04.52 | PoeticIntensity | ah.... |
| 17:05.11 | PoeticIntensity | well... transaction rollback is pretty fundamental to the new code we'll be writing. |
| 17:05.21 | PoeticIntensity | if it doesn't work, then that makes my decision MUCH easier. |
| 17:05.21 | thebigdog | innodb had issues too with the amount of data it could handle and speed issues with huge amounts of data |
| 17:05.44 | PoeticIntensity | I've heard the same thing...... but... sadly, again, there doesn't seem to be anything documented about it. |
| 17:05.47 | PoeticIntensity | all here-say. |
| 17:05.58 | PoeticIntensity | not that it's not true, but..... the execs are gonna want some proof. |
| 17:05.59 | thebigdog | plus innodb is not a mysql engine so i was not pleased with that |
| 17:06.08 | PoeticIntensity | nor am I. |
| 17:06.21 | PoeticIntensity | personally.... I'm really hoping that PG is the right answer for us. |
| 17:06.21 | thebigdog | oracle owns innodb now i think |
| 17:06.25 | PoeticIntensity | they do. |
| 17:06.26 | PoeticIntensity | for sure. |
| 17:06.38 | thebigdog | and i did not like that innodb was not supported directly |
| 17:06.42 | thebigdog | you have to configure it |
| 17:06.50 | thebigdog | pgsql comes with transactions out of the box |
| 17:07.23 | thebigdog | pgsql just rocks |
| 17:07.36 | thebigdog | i use it with postgis stuff and have tables with 35M+ recoreds |
| 17:07.47 | PoeticIntensity | yeah...... all that stuff is good ammo. |
| 17:07.50 | thebigdog | with postgis data...which is tons of data |
| 17:07.58 | thebigdog | and it does not skip a beat |
| 17:08.07 | thebigdog | i do have it running on a beefy machine too |
| 17:08.30 | PoeticIntensity | we'll be putting it on a 64-bit quad proccy with 3.2G procs.\ |
| 17:08.33 | PoeticIntensity | 4 G of RAM. |
| 17:08.37 | thebigdog | now if you are doing simple stuff...hands down mysql will be good for that...however, i need the stability that pg offers |
| 17:08.37 | PoeticIntensity | so... it's beef, too. |
| 17:08.42 | PoeticIntensity | right.... |
| 17:08.50 | PoeticIntensity | we're coming to the same issues.... |
| 17:08.51 | thebigdog | yeah i have it one a dell system like that |
| 17:09.08 | PoeticIntensity | we want to make SURE MySQL can do what we need it to before we start implementing transactions. |
| 17:09.15 | thebigdog | and the stored procs and view are hella important for me too |
| 17:09.23 | PoeticIntensity | because... holy cow... if it screws up - that'll be a mess and a half. |
| 17:09.26 | PoeticIntensity | I'll probably quit. |
| 17:09.27 | PoeticIntensity | :) |
| 17:10.01 | thebigdog | pgsql does require a little more know how and you are not going to find many people that know pgsql |
| 17:10.16 | thebigdog | however, if you find oracle or sybase guys they can work in a pgsql world |
| 17:10.28 | PoeticIntensity | yeah.... |
| 17:10.44 | Ritter | I used to be a huge postgres advocate |
| 17:10.46 | thebigdog | some features i use on a regular bases that mysql has added or doesnt have are: |
| 17:10.47 | PoeticIntensity | execs are worried about that, too. |
| 17:11.17 | thebigdog | transactions, fkeys, domains, stored procs, triggers, views |
| 17:11.40 | thebigdog | langs, aggregates |
| 17:11.44 | thebigdog | operators |
| 17:12.02 | thebigdog | types, clustering |
| 17:12.11 | thebigdog | clustering in terms of table space |
| 17:12.18 | thebigdog | oracle type stuff |
| 17:12.32 | Ritter | yup |
| 17:12.34 | thebigdog | cursors...which are hot...hot...hot |
| 17:12.54 | thebigdog | 2 phase commits |
| 17:12.59 | thebigdog | another oracle type thing |
| 17:13.22 | thebigdog | savepoints |
| 17:13.30 | thebigdog | not sure if mysql supports savepoints or not |
| 17:13.39 | thebigdog | but that is another oracle type thing |
| 17:13.51 | Ritter | dont think so |
| 17:13.56 | thebigdog | what i mean about that is, i was introduced to those concepts with oracle and use them with pgsql |
| 17:14.05 | thebigdog | schema |
| 17:14.21 | thebigdog | did i say conversions |
| 17:14.24 | thebigdog | i love those things |
| 17:14.25 | PoeticIntensity | heh... nope. |
| 17:14.33 | PoeticIntensity | so, thebigdog, are you a DBA? |
| 17:14.39 | thebigdog | i am here |
| 17:14.43 | PoeticIntensity | ah. |
| 17:14.44 | PoeticIntensity | k |
| 17:14.53 | thebigdog | i would not say im a full dba...but a hat i ware |
| 17:14.56 | thebigdog | wear |
| 17:14.59 | PoeticIntensity | I've never even heard of half of the stuff you just rattled of. |
| 17:15.00 | PoeticIntensity | off |
| 17:15.29 | PoeticIntensity | interesting.... |
| 17:15.30 | thebigdog | ok the first stuff you know about |
| 17:15.36 | PoeticIntensity | yup. |
| 17:15.39 | Ritter | mysql can be fun, like subselects |
| 17:15.50 | Ritter | especially on updates |
| 17:15.57 | Ritter | was playing with that this morning |
| 17:16.13 | PoeticIntensity | we've got a seasoned MSSQL DBA working here. I'm gonna rattle off that list you just gave - see if his eyes light up or not. |
| 17:16.47 | thebigdog | also there are killer functions that i love in pgsql |
| 17:16.54 | Ritter | mssql doesnt have that feature list, does it? |
| 17:17.06 | thebigdog | like interval is my fav |
| 17:17.07 | jsmith | Ritter: It will do *some* of those things |
| 17:17.20 | mindjuju | which stuff, this? transactions, fkeys, domains, stored procs, triggers, views |
| 17:17.34 | PoeticIntensity | yeah... |
| 17:17.47 | thebigdog | PoeticIntensity domains i use alot to create abstraction in the db |
| 17:17.51 | mindjuju | ms sql has all that |
| 17:17.59 | thebigdog | now too some of this stuff is pgsql too |
| 17:18.07 | Ritter | domains are such a cool concept |
| 17:18.26 | PoeticIntensity | hmmm.... |
| 17:18.31 | Ritter | havent used them in pgsql though, just oracle |
| 17:18.40 | PoeticIntensity | so, Ritter, are you still a PG advocate? |
| 17:18.47 | mindjuju | oh, domains, hmmm, not sure about that |
| 17:18.55 | thebigdog | conversions are nice too |
| 17:18.56 | Ritter | not as much .. mysql was too easy to use for our purposes |
| 17:19.04 | PoeticIntensity | you think MySQL transactions are stable enough for a production accounting system to run on it? |
| 17:19.12 | Ritter | yes |
| 17:19.18 | PoeticIntensity | housing millions of rows per table..... |
| 17:19.21 | Ritter | innodb is very well developed |
| 17:19.35 | PoeticIntensity | probably totalling 10+ million rows... |
| 17:19.44 | Ritter | which is the only engine for which mysql supports transactions, fkeys etc |
| 17:19.46 | PoeticIntensity | one of our tables has 120 million rows and grows daily. |
| 17:19.59 | PoeticIntensity | is it just as stable as PG is? |
| 17:20.13 | Ritter | no |
| 17:20.25 | PoeticIntensity | thanks for your honesty. |
| 17:20.30 | Ritter | in all due fairness pgsql is a true rdbms |
| 17:20.52 | PoeticIntensity | my main concern is.... We don't use transactions, and our db has grown to a point where that might cause problems. |
| 17:20.53 | thebigdog | if i had to list in order i would do this: oracle, pgsql, db2, mysql, sybase,mssql |
| 17:21.38 | PoeticIntensity | referring to stability, thebigdog ? |
| 17:21.38 | thebigdog | all items |
| 17:21.38 | PoeticIntensity | k |
| 17:21.38 | thebigdog | without cost though |
| 17:21.38 | Ritter | I dont know about db2, so I cant say how it ranks above mysql |
| 17:21.58 | thebigdog | db2 is solid and you can find guys for it..but it costs money too |
| 17:22.16 | thebigdog | just because db2 has the features out of the box |
| 17:22.59 | PoeticIntensity | I'm convinced that MySQL / PGSQL will be our two options. |
| 17:23.18 | Ritter | personally .. I'd think that for the cost, pgsql is the best (most robust and stable) product |
| 17:23.18 | PoeticIntensity | man... |
| 17:23.36 | thebigdog | i agree 2 |
| 17:23.47 | PoeticIntensity | have I mentioned that this channel freakin' rocks? |
| 17:24.00 | thebigdog | jsmith has great experience with both mysql and pgsql in productions envs...so he is a valuable resource |
| 17:24.00 | PoeticIntensity | any other channel right now would be about 50000000 degrees into a flame-war. |
| 17:24.01 | Ritter | I dunno, I just joined freenode yesterday |
| 17:24.23 | PoeticIntensity | ~wake jsmith |
| 17:24.25 | jbot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on jsmith and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" |
| 17:24.42 | PoeticIntensity | if ya get a chance, jsmith-away, I'd love your input on this discussion. |
| 17:25.02 | PoeticIntensity | the more opinions I get (rational opinions... informed opinions), the more ammo I'll have when I present the choices. |
| 17:25.36 | thebigdog | PoeticIntensity, mac and fungus have good experience with mysql in production too |
| 17:25.42 | PoeticIntensity | yup. |
| 17:25.56 | thebigdog | you can check the logs for irc #uphpu we have discussed this alot |
| 17:26.04 | PoeticIntensity | *great* idea. |
| 17:26.12 | PoeticIntensity | anyone know the link off hand? |
| 17:27.11 | Ritter | the only thing that worries me about mysql (as a for instance) is a week ago I had a query that litterally crashed the mysql daemon and I had to restart it twice before we realized what was causing it |
| 17:27.15 | PoeticIntensity | http://purl.rikers.org/%23uphpu/20050409.html.gz |
| 17:27.16 | thebigdog | search jbot for it |
| 17:27.18 | PoeticIntensity | or something like that? |
| 17:27.41 | Ritter | upgraded from 5.0.32 to 50.038 solved that though |
| 17:27.47 | Ritter | 5.0.38* |
| 17:28.30 | Ritter | I'm just glad it happened at off-hours or it certainly would have curropted some indexes |
| 17:28.37 | Ritter | corrupted* |
| 17:29.19 | Lone_Wanderer | ~geekschool Ritter |
| 17:30.15 | Ritter | eh? |
| 17:30.17 | Lone_Wanderer | Hmm, it didn't work. |
| 17:30.20 | Lone_Wanderer | ~rlart |
| 17:30.35 | jbot | decapitates PoeticIntensity conan the destroyer style |
| 17:30.39 | Lone_Wanderer | jbot hates me :( oh there we go |
| 17:30.52 | PoeticIntensity | bah. I liked my head, too. |
| 17:30.55 | mgeary | ~nerdschool Ritter |
| 17:30.57 | jbot | ACTION chains Ritter to a molded-fiberglass all-in-one desk/chair, fills his backpack with sci-fi and fantasy novels, and plants him in Norm Bangerter's Elementary Physics class for re-indoctrination. |
| 17:31.01 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh, there we go |
| 17:31.04 | mgeary | :) |
| 17:31.07 | Lone_Wanderer | That should help with the spelling. |
| 17:32.01 | Lone_Wanderer | So, the question of the day is - special forces, or not special forces? |
| 17:33.11 | thebigdog | are you married Lone_Wanderer ? |
| 17:34.09 | Lone_Wanderer | No. |
| 17:34.09 | thebigdog | sp then |
| 17:34.09 | Lone_Wanderer | Will I have trouble getting married if I'm in the special forces? |
| 17:34.19 | Lone_Wanderer | mindjuju: can itunes play .ogg files? |
| 17:34.45 | beandog | nopies |
| 17:34.49 | Lone_Wanderer | hmmm |
| 17:34.53 | beandog | must ... resist .. trolling |
| 17:34.59 | Lone_Wanderer | lol, go for it |
| 17:35.01 | Lone_Wanderer | I don't like Macs either. |
| 17:35.08 | beandog | I better not. I'll have everyone on me. :) |
| 17:35.25 | Lone_Wanderer | I'll start - I'd rather use Windows 98 than OSX. |
| 17:35.32 | beandog | Ooh. |
| 17:35.37 | mgeary | ~stevejobisfy Lone_Wanderer |
| 17:35.42 | beandog | LOL mgeary |
| 17:35.49 | mgeary | ~stevejobsify Lone_Wanderer |
| 17:35.50 | jbot | ACTION drags Lone_Wanderer by the scruff of the neck and plants him in front row center of the Moscone Center at the peak of Steve Jobs' keynote address until Lone_Wanderers eyes glaze over and he calms down |
| 17:36.14 | Lone_Wanderer | I hate Steve Jobs. |
| 17:36.16 | beandog | heh, theres actually an action for it too? |
| 17:36.17 | beandog | sweet |
| 17:36.36 | Lone_Wanderer | I don't know how any one man can be so arrogant and full of himself. |
| 17:37.01 | Lone_Wanderer | So, what program can I get that'll play .ogg files on a mac? |
| 17:37.36 | beandog | ogg123 :D |
| 17:37.39 | beandog | no, I have no idea. |
| 17:37.59 | beandog | Lone_Wanderer: vorbis.com |
| 17:38.04 | beandog | it'll have some linkies to software |
| 17:38.13 | Lone_Wanderer | heh, cool. command line ogg playing. |
| 17:39.04 | Lone_Wanderer | I love this song. |
| 17:39.09 | Lone_Wanderer | Especially Cash style. |
| 17:46.49 | Ritter | sg? |
| 17:46.59 | thebigdog | soundgarden |
| 17:47.09 | Ritter | :) |
| 17:47.26 | Lone_Wanderer | It's better played by Cash. |
| 17:48.09 | Lone_Wanderer | (Stillwater is a city on the Mississippi in Minnesota.) |
| 17:48.24 | *** join/#uphpu jsmith-away (n=jsmith@000-256-541.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 17:48.24 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v jsmith-away] by ChanServ |
| 17:49.14 | thebigdog | im a cash fan all the way...but i still enjoy the sg version |
| 17:49.35 | Lone_Wanderer | I didn't even realize that there was a sg version until I heard it on the radio once by accident. |
| 17:55.46 | Lone_Wanderer | looks like I get to reboot, brb |
| 18:00.28 | *** join/#uphpu Lone_Wanderer (n=Lone_Wan@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 18:00.28 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v Lone_Wanderer] by ChanServ |
| 18:02.25 | *** join/#uphpu burnin (n=burnin@204-228-142-194.ip.xmission.com) |
| 18:07.28 | PoeticIntensity | so, beandog, you don't like macs, eh'? |
| 18:08.00 | beandog | meh |
| 18:08.02 | beandog | does it matter? |
| 18:08.19 | mgeary | not as long as you don't decide what i work on :) |
| 18:08.24 | burnin | the only thing that matters today is that its Friday :) |
| 18:08.26 | PoeticIntensity | true dat. |
| 18:08.36 | PoeticIntensity | ALL HAIL FRIDAY! |
| 18:08.39 | PoeticIntensity | ~hail Friday. |
| 18:08.59 | jbot | ACTION bows down to Friday. and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" |
| 18:09.00 | herlo | PoeticIntensity: and its payday!! :) |
| 18:09.14 | Lone_Wanderer | mindjuju: Thanks, I finally got the files working with VLC, it's good :) |
| 18:09.23 | wps | I direct deposit… payday was yesterday day ;) |
| 18:09.38 | PoeticIntensity | okay.... I'm looking at the archive of UPHPU IRC and I can't find a way to search through them - except one-by-one - which honestly isn't an option.... :-| |
| 18:09.46 | herlo | wps: me too, but my paychecks don't get deposited until this morning |
| 18:09.51 | PoeticIntensity | my payday is next week. |
| 18:10.00 | PoeticIntensity | EOThursday. |
| 18:10.04 | herlo | PoeticIntensity: you should use gmaine |
| 18:10.14 | herlo | gmain |
| 18:10.15 | herlo | man |
| 18:10.17 | PoeticIntensity | yeah... but that just searches the mailing list, does it not? |
| 18:10.17 | herlo | gmane |
| 18:10.29 | herlo | true that, nm |
| 18:10.32 | herlo | ;) |
| 18:10.44 | PoeticIntensity | and man, I hate tooling through flame-wars looking for non-bias. |
| 18:11.23 | PoeticIntensity | anyway... I think I've got quite a bit of ammo in my belt now. Looks like stored procedures in MySQL is a pain. |
| 18:11.52 | herlo | PoeticIntensity: I was thinking of something else |
| 18:12.00 | PoeticIntensity | hu? |
| 18:12.03 | PoeticIntensity | eh'? |
| 18:12.11 | herlo | as in gmame |
| 18:12.14 | herlo | gmane |
| 18:12.14 | PoeticIntensity | gmane is great for mailing lists.... yeah... |
| 18:12.15 | herlo | man |
| 18:12.29 | herlo | howly crap my typing sucks today |
| 18:12.33 | herlo | see |
| 18:12.43 | PoeticIntensity | LOL |
| 18:15.54 | timinator | LW: I like Audacity for recording and mixing, and it plays ogg files |
| 18:15.56 | timinator | http://audacity.sourceforge.net/ |
| 18:16.32 | timinator | It's like an open source GarageBand |
| 18:16.44 | timinator | ya, I love it |
| 18:17.03 | timinator | very powerful and works great |
| 18:17.18 | timinator | and you can export to mp3 (with the plugin) |
| 18:17.23 | timinator | and that's very handy |
| 18:18.00 | herlo | timinator: and ogg, and I would guess FLAC would be an option? |
| 18:18.06 | timinator | I recorded my daughter singing, then put it on my iPod and cell phone |
| 18:18.17 | timinator | FLAC?? |
| 18:18.40 | herlo | Free Lossless Audio Codec |
| 18:19.09 | timinator | not sure |
| 18:19.37 | herlo | me neither, though it'd be cool if it could |
| 18:19.51 | Lone_Wanderer | http://static.flickr.com/38/182511885_11c3e79568_o.jpg - Bagginss destroyed masster, will terrorize for food |
| 18:21.02 | timinator | http://audacity.sourceforge.net/about/features |
| 18:23.36 | mgeary | so, y'all, i've got a buddy coming in from out-of-state for a first-time visit to Utah. I'm fishing for fun ideas. It'll be over the july 4th week. Here's my list of possibilities so far: Temple Square, Sundance, Park City (Alpine Slide, etc.), Provo River Trail, Snowbird. Any other good Wasatch Front suggestions? |
| 18:24.19 | mgeary | kid-friendly activities necessary |
| 18:24.46 | Lone_Wanderer | If he's not LDS, I'd skip temple square. |
| 18:24.59 | mgeary | he's not, and he wants to see it |
| 18:25.06 | mgeary | it IS the state's #1 attraction, you know :) |
| 18:25.25 | Lone_Wanderer | Probably because most of the state's visitors are Mormon. |
| 18:25.29 | Lone_Wanderer | That's cool though. |
| 18:25.30 | mgeary | well, yeah |
| 18:27.22 | timinator | The Zoo is kid friendly |
| 18:27.38 | mgeary | yeah, but they're coming from SoCal, and San Diego's got a killer zoo |
| 18:27.46 | timinator | ah, for sure |
| 18:30.52 | mgeary | hey, with all the WoW talk here, is it Mac-intel native? |
| 19:13.36 | orson | I have to agree about audacity. I like it. however the linux version doesn't seem as smooth as the windows version. I don't know, maybe it's just that it doesn't match my desktop theme. |
| 19:14.13 | mindjuju | lone_wanderer , glad you like it |
| 19:14.24 | mindjuju | i tried that ogg format that thebigdog is ALWAYS raving about |
| 19:14.39 | mindjuju | maybe it's my sound card, but not hearing a whole lot of difference between ogg and mp3 |
| 19:15.08 | mindjuju | optikal , you around? |
| 19:18.45 | optikal | mindjuju: Yeah, a tad busy at the moment so I'm in and out.. sup? |
| 19:18.55 | burnin | I've never been able to hear a difference between ogg and mp3 of the same variable bit rate, but then I don't have the greatest hearing either. |
| 19:19.15 | burnin | the nice thing about mp3 is lots of hardware support |
| 19:19.24 | burnin | the nice thing about ogg is the licensing |
| 19:19.44 | mindjuju | optikal, sent you a PM |
| 19:19.56 | mindjuju | @burnin - I heard that yesterday, but not sure i understand |
| 19:20.10 | mindjuju | once you have an encoder, isn't everything pretty much moot? |
| 19:20.28 | mindjuju | at least, i've never worried about licensing before when I was using MP3 to rip my cds, etc |
| 19:20.49 | burnin | mindjuju, well, the licensing for mp3 says something like if your going to make hardware or software that uses mp3 then you must pay |
| 19:21.00 | burnin | most don't pay and they don't enforce |
| 19:21.05 | burnin | but its there anyhow |
| 19:21.18 | burnin | ogg licensing says go for it, its open |
| 19:21.25 | mindjuju | ah |
| 19:22.01 | mindjuju | i wonder if flash mp3 players count |
| 19:22.13 | orson | That plus the fact that ogg hardware players are getting easier to find got me to start using ogg (and the fact that mp3 is so hard to get going on ubuntu) |
| 19:22.31 | burnin | I'm sure they do, anything that has an encoder or decoder in it that supports mp3 is supposed to be backed up by a paid for license. |
| 19:22.44 | orson | flash as in macromedia flash or hardware flash drive based players? |
| 19:22.54 | mindjuju | macromedia |
| 19:23.12 | burnin | orson, yes, I specifically chose a digital player that had ogg support. if a player didn't support ogg it was removed from my list. |
| 19:23.47 | burnin | orson, I have an iriver player that required me to download and install new firmware to get ogg support, but now I thing they come with ogg support built in. |
| 19:23.57 | orson | I have a samsung yp-t8 |
| 19:28.16 | orson | I use emff ( http://www.marcreichelt.de/spezial/musicplayer/ ) for a website I'm doing. I assume macromedia pays the mp3 licencing fees. |
| 19:28.42 | mindjuju | that's what i thought |
| 19:28.51 | Lone_Wanderer | Orson? |
| 19:28.54 | orson | yes |
| 19:29.01 | Lone_Wanderer | Is that your first name? |
| 19:29.04 | orson | yep |
| 19:29.15 | Lone_Wanderer | I've only encountered one Orson before, and that was through his literary work. |
| 19:29.21 | Lone_Wanderer | I am guessing that you are not that Orson. |
| 19:29.28 | orson | nope, I'm too young. |
| 19:29.32 | orson | Scott Card? |
| 19:29.38 | Lone_Wanderer | Yes. |
| 19:30.07 | orson | A couple years ago, I got around to reading his Ender series and one of his other series. |
| 19:30.56 | orson | I really liked the Ender series |
| 19:30.56 | Lone_Wanderer | What did you think of them? |
| 19:30.56 | Lone_Wanderer | Cool. |
| 19:30.56 | orson | The "Book of Mormon" series was the other one I read. |
| 19:31.27 | orson | It was good enough that as a single guy not dating anyone (me) decided to finish the entire series. |
| 19:32.00 | orson | If I were to start reading it for the first time now, I might not finish the series. |
| 19:34.47 | orson | I guess the official name of the series was "Homecoming" |
| 19:42.27 | *** join/#uphpu gibba (i=gibbawho@209-253-35-21.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 19:42.42 | mgeary | OSC++ |
| 19:48.26 | mindjuju | wps , you around? |
| 19:48.34 | wps | yes |
| 19:48.41 | mindjuju | k, so quick question |
| 19:49.39 | mindjuju | on the doba website, you've got that rounded rectangluar image of the lady and 250,000 products, etc... it's a jpeg at 38k. |
| 19:49.54 | mindjuju | well, i guess my question is, how much should a person worry about image size, optimization |
| 19:50.24 | wps | I worry about it a lot less then many |
| 19:50.35 | wps | I have seem many marketing-types get ulcers over a few k |
| 19:50.46 | mindjuju | yeah |
| 19:50.57 | wps | I could squeeze that image some more… but you start to loose quality |
| 19:51.06 | wps | I'd rather it be nice and crisp for the home page |
| 19:51.07 | mindjuju | exactly, starts to look pixelated |
| 19:51.29 | wps | we squeeze most other things pretty hard… but main headliner photos I leave a little larger so that they look good |
| 19:51.32 | mindjuju | is there a target weight that you say, no page is going to weigh more than x ? |
| 19:51.46 | wps | not for me no… every page is different |
| 19:51.57 | thebigdog | 64k for me |
| 19:52.29 | mindjuju | k, thx for the advice, i'll relax on my image compression |
| 20:00.36 | Lone_Wanderer | http://www.gametrailers.com/umwatcher.php?id=57998 - samus is hot, but since when has she been a Jedi? |
| 20:28.18 | PoeticIntensity | Sorry to butt in, but...... thebigdog, jsmith, Ritter, .... What version of postgres would you recommend as being the most stable? |
| 20:28.39 | PoeticIntensity | 8.1 is out, and I assume it's pretty stable...... just feeling out opinions... |
| 20:28.43 | PoeticIntensity | what versions do ya'll use? |
| 20:29.11 | Lone_Wanderer | Why, why, why must I type $this->_request->getParam('to_name') instead of just $_POST['to_name'] |
| 20:29.26 | Lone_Wanderer | This is PHP I'm using folks, not Java. |
| 20:29.53 | PoeticIntensity | heh.... I suspect Lone_Wanderer isn't a OOP fan.....? |
| 20:30.09 | Lone_Wanderer | OOP is fine, just fine. I have no problems with OOP. |
| 20:30.22 | mgeary | why can't you just hit $_POST ? |
| 20:30.26 | Lone_Wanderer | It's a great tool to use when I'm modeling actual real-world objects. |
| 20:30.28 | PoeticIntensity | I do all the time. |
| 20:30.37 | Lone_Wanderer | Or things that logically fit into the OOP model. |
| 20:30.40 | PoeticIntensity | I sense a "but" coming..... |
| 20:30.47 | Lone_Wanderer | Grabbing a POSTed variable is not one of these things. |
| 20:30.55 | PoeticIntensity | I couldn't agree more. |
| 20:32.31 | mgeary | sooo? |
| 20:35.53 | Lone_Wanderer | sooooo... what? |
| 20:36.09 | mgeary | so why don't you just hit $_POST ? |
| 20:36.28 | Lone_Wanderer | I did. It's working. |
| 20:37.06 | mgeary | umm, okay. i must have misunderstood your rant above, my bad |
| 20:37.33 | Lone_Wanderer | No, I think you understood it. I *can* just hit $_POST. But the developers of the zend framework don't want me to. |
| 20:37.39 | mgeary | ah |
| 20:38.09 | mgeary | well i can see some reasons for that, but that's why i've got my own framework. i just steal ideas from others and incorporate them |
| 20:38.20 | mgeary | but my framework is *very* lightweight |
| 20:38.28 | mgeary | some might not even call it a framework |
| 20:38.32 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh, the Zend framework is lightweight too. |
| 20:38.34 | Lone_Wanderer | Just ask them. |
| 20:39.04 | Lone_Wanderer | They apparently have a different definition of the word "lightweight" than anyone else on earth, but that doesn't stop them from throwing the term around in their documentation. |
| 20:39.13 | mgeary | heh |
| 20:39.21 | mgeary | so why are you using it? |
| 20:39.58 | Lone_Wanderer | Don't want to get fired? |
| 20:40.17 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm just modifying a customer's site, which was built in the framework. |
| 20:40.22 | mgeary | aah |
| 20:40.23 | wps | anyone looking for a job? |
| 20:40.36 | mgeary | if they are, i get first dibbs |
| 20:40.39 | mgeary | :P |
| 20:40.52 | Lone_Wanderer | And, honestly, I think they'd have less code in their project if they just wrote it from scratch without the framework. |
| 20:41.14 | mgeary | though i doubt we can pay what most people on this list would command. we're pretty small |
| 20:41.26 | wps | We're looking for a front-end web guy to produce marketing pieces |
| 20:41.31 | Lone_Wanderer | I'd love to rewrite this site without the framework and then do a lines-of-code count on both of them and see how much smaller we could get it, not counting framework code. |
| 20:41.46 | mgeary | that bad, eh? |
| 20:41.52 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh yeah. |
| 20:50.22 | mindjuju | dataw0lf ! |
| 20:51.11 | PoeticIntensity | ~kick mindjuju just for fun. |
| 20:51.13 | jbot | ACTION kicks mindjuju just for fun. |
| 20:51.21 | mindjuju | sup yo |
| 20:51.28 | PoeticIntensity | just wanted to kick ya. |
| 20:51.33 | PoeticIntensity | that's all. |
| 20:51.40 | PoeticIntensity | spread the boredom. :) |
| 20:51.47 | mindjuju | well, you kick like a little girl |
| 20:51.56 | PoeticIntensity | LOL |
| 20:51.58 | mindjuju | heh |
| 20:52.01 | PoeticIntensity | oh yeah? |
| 20:52.06 | PoeticIntensity | My dad can beat up your dad. |
| 20:52.33 | mindjuju | prolly. my dad is like 5' 2" |
| 20:57.12 | jsmith | PoeticIntensity: Sorry for the late reply, but 8.1 is very stable |
| 20:57.12 | mindjuju | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:57.36 | PoeticIntensity | jsmith, thanks. I've been reading the pgsql.com site, and came to the same conclusion. |
| 20:57.53 | jsmith | Cool |
| 20:58.06 | PoeticIntensity | or.... ProsaicallyLaid-back. |
| 21:00.54 | mindjuju | ~rlart |
| 21:00.56 | jbot | lowers orson's priority |
| 21:07.25 | wps | who on earth gets this excited about a website? |
| 21:07.26 | wps | http://www.ebizwebpages.com/main/home?aid=gog&gclid=CNuck5jo44sCFRqCYAodVRB7Og |
| 21:07.43 | wps | I don't care if you threw in 10 free days… it's not _that_ exciting |
| 21:08.40 | mindjuju | oh, that's too funny |
| 21:09.16 | mindjuju | did you see their samples more than half way down? That dentist office with the Enzyte grin in the top left? |
| 21:26.19 | wps | yeah… totally awesomoe |
| 21:26.28 | Lone_Wanderer | They broke a major rule |
| 21:26.45 | Lone_Wanderer | everyone is allowed one exclamation point in their entire life |
| 21:26.48 | Lone_Wanderer | you may use it once |
| 21:26.54 | wps | amen |
| 21:26.58 | wps | ~amen |
| 21:27.01 | jbot | Praise the lord! |
| 21:27.08 | Lone_Wanderer | ~ramen |
| 21:27.10 | jbot | methinks ramen is the midnight food of any good programming geek |
| 21:27.26 | Lone_Wanderer | jbot: no, ramen is Praise the FSM! |
| 21:27.27 | jbot | okay, Lone_Wanderer |
| 21:27.31 | Lone_Wanderer | ~ramen |
| 21:27.32 | jbot | somebody said ramen was Praise the FSM! |
| 21:27.36 | Lone_Wanderer | Hmm. |
| 21:27.43 | Lone_Wanderer | How do you make him just say "Praise the FSM!" |
| 21:28.07 | wps | ~FSM |
| 21:28.09 | jbot | well, fsm is The Flying Spaghetti Monster, the deity of the internet |
| 21:28.22 | wps | I wasn't aware of that |
| 21:28.32 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh yes. |
| 21:28.48 | Lone_Wanderer | You were created when the FSM touched the Universe with His Noodly Appendage, sometime last Wednesday. |
| 21:29.53 | Lone_Wanderer | Any evidence that the universe is older than a few days - including your personal memories, which presumably extend beyond this date - were created by the Flying Spaghetti Monster to cause you to doubt His noodly existence. |
| 21:30.51 | Lone_Wanderer | Was he delicious? |
| 21:31.11 | mindjuju | meh, alright i guess |
| 21:31.39 | Lone_Wanderer | I guess that's the Pastafarian equivalent of the Eucharist, and/or being born again, eh? |
| 21:32.12 | Lone_Wanderer | I suggest sacrificing the FSM's remains to the Porcelain God. You probably have one or more in your home. |
| 21:33.05 | PoeticIntensity | you guys are hilarious. |
| 21:33.44 | PoeticIntensity | note the sarcasm.... |
| 21:33.44 | PoeticIntensity | you can't eat the FSM. |
| 21:33.44 | PoeticIntensity | at least without cheese. |
| 21:33.45 | Lone_Wanderer | The FSM was originally created as a parody of creationist beliefs, but quickly became a 'net-wide phenomenon. |
| 21:33.58 | PoeticIntensity | how dare you claim to have eaten the FSM with brucheta!? |
| 21:34.02 | PoeticIntensity | AND NO CHEESE!!!?? |
| 21:34.12 | mindjuju | bring it yo! |
| 21:34.30 | mindjuju | i'd do it again if there was another FMS to be had |
| 21:34.53 | Lone_Wanderer | Just cook one. |
| 21:35.12 | Lone_Wanderer | I'd like your FSM recipe if you have one. |
| 21:35.33 | wps | time for some business ideas! |
| 21:35.39 | wps | Become a Money Broker! Make money by lending money to people who can't get loans because they're bad credit risks. Just think of the size of your potential customer base! |
| 21:36.00 | mindjuju | funny you should say that |
| 21:36.01 | wps | Get a college diploma without going to college! It's easy! Just visit a college in your area and check out the old yearbooks in their library. Pick one that's dated around the time that you would have attended if you had actually gone there. Now find somebody in the yearbook whose name is the same as yours. Then, write a letter to the Records Department, tell them that your diploma was destroyed in a fire, and ask them to send you a new one! |
| 21:36.18 | wps | (note all of the exclamation points) |
| 21:36.21 | mindjuju | funny |
| 21:36.30 | wps | Get any job you want, without qualifications! Install a second phone line in your home and put an answering machine on it. Then, when you apply for a job, make up a phony company name and say you used to work there. "Call my old boss at (insert your phone number here) and he'll give me a reference." The potential employer calls the number, gets your answering machine, and leaves a message. You then call him back, pretending to be "your old boss", and |
| 21:36.36 | Lone_Wanderer | Hey! That's a Good Plan! There are a Lot of People with My Name! |
| 21:36.42 | Lone_Wanderer | Dan Crookston is Such a Common Name! |
| 21:37.01 | wps | Set yourself up as a Corporate Lifesaver! Find a company in your area that's in danger of going bankrupt. Tell the owner that you can save his business for only $2,000. Then interview his employees. Everybody who works there will gladly tell you what the boss is doing wrong! |
| 21:37.33 | wps | and the last bit of advice for today: |
| 21:37.33 | wps | Take out a "self-amortizing loan!" Let's say you need $100,000. Take out a loan for $500,000 and only spend $100,000 of it. Put the other $400,000 into an interest-accruing bank account. Then use the $400,000 plus interest to pay back the $100,000 you actually spent! |
| 21:37.35 | Lone_Wanderer | Actually there was a Dan Crookston at the University of Chicago, but I don't want to claim his name because he apparently made a lot of enemies, one of whom came after me once on accident. |
| 21:37.40 | PoeticIntensity | I got ya all beat there. |
| 21:37.52 | PoeticIntensity | "Jason Jones" |
| 21:38.04 | PoeticIntensity | There were TWO "Jason B. Jones" 'es in my highschool. |
| 21:38.07 | Lone_Wanderer | Man, you could have your pick of degree. |
| 21:38.09 | Lone_Wanderer | degrees* |
| 21:38.24 | PoeticIntensity | heh.... I already have 374 BS degrees. |
| 21:38.31 | PoeticIntensity | my resume is........ impressive. |
| 21:38.47 | Lone_Wanderer | I've got a ton of BS degrees myself! |
| 21:39.04 | mgeary | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.14 | Lone_Wanderer | One of them (animal husbandry) deals with actual BS! |
| 21:39.14 | mgeary | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.28 | mgeary | i'm a BA |
| 21:39.38 | mgeary | as in "baaaa, i'm a sheep" |
| 21:39.42 | Lone_Wanderer | :) |
| 21:39.51 | Lone_Wanderer | BA in what? |
| 21:40.03 | mindjuju | BA in BS? |
| 21:40.05 | mgeary | "Honors German Literature" |
| 21:40.11 | mgeary | of course |
| 21:40.16 | mgeary | c'mon |
| 21:40.24 | Lone_Wanderer | Did you read Mein Kampf? (sp) |
| 21:40.29 | mgeary | naw |
| 21:40.35 | mgeary | spelling is right |
| 21:40.36 | PoeticIntensity | a'ight, all... Thanks for all your help. |
| 21:40.38 | PoeticIntensity | Today was a success! |
| 21:40.40 | PoeticIntensity | and ..... |
| 21:40.41 | PoeticIntensity | IT'S FRIDAY! |
| 21:40.47 | mgeary | Friday++ |
| 21:40.50 | mgeary | ~friday |
| 21:40.54 | jbot | Friday sucks, because it should be the weekend, but you're stuck working anyway. |
| 21:40.54 | Lone_Wanderer | Because if I'd majored in German literature, I totally would have, just to piss off any rabid liberals in the class. |
| 21:40.58 | mgeary | ~karma friday |
| 21:40.58 | jbot | friday has karma of 1 |
| 21:41.12 | wps | only an hour and a half left boys |
| 21:41.18 | Lone_Wanderer | For you maybe. |
| 21:41.18 | wps | hang in there |
| 21:41.21 | Lone_Wanderer | I work until 6. |
| 21:41.25 | wps | yuck |
| 21:41.27 | mgeary | me too |
| 21:41.27 | Lone_Wanderer | I mean, I work until "six". |
| 21:41.28 | PoeticIntensity | I'm OUTTA HERE! |
| 21:41.31 | PoeticIntensity | huzzah! |
| 21:41.32 | Lone_Wanderer | au revoir |
| 21:46.27 | bradym | so i need to study up on regular expressions.. can anyone suggest some good sites for that? |
| 21:46.54 | Lone_Wanderer | bradym had a problem. He thought, "I know, I'll use regular expressions." Now bradym has two problems. |
| 21:47.05 | mgeary | heh |
| 21:47.18 | bradym | haha.. yeah.. |
| 21:47.30 | mgeary | bradym: this group is a good resource, what do you want to do? |
| 21:49.56 | bradym | i'm working on a mod_rewrite rule, need to redirect all html files except for index.html in the directory to a php file. i've got one that redirects everything, need to set the exception now.. |
| 21:50.08 | bradym | my current rule: Rewriterule (.*).html$ /article.php?fn=$1 |
| 21:50.25 | bradym | i know it's something really simple, which is why i want to read up on regex |
| 21:56.11 | bradym | i think i'll just set a redirect rule since it's only for one file, but i know i'm gonna need to learn regex eventually.. |
| 22:09.19 | *** join/#uphpu beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 22:09.19 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v beandog] by ChanServ |
| 22:31.19 | mindjuju | ...must focus.... ...must focus... must not lart synic |
| 22:31.31 | synic | too late! |
| 22:54.45 | mindjuju | anybody have SP Season 2, episode 3? |
| 23:00.17 | *** part/#uphpu mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 23:05.31 | thebigdog | not i |
| 23:25.26 | Lone_Wanderer | SP? |
| 23:25.32 | Lone_Wanderer | oh, South Park? |
| 23:26.33 | mindjuju | yeah, that's the one where they say "Respect my authority" |
| 23:26.37 | mindjuju | haven't seen a lot of episodes, but wanted to see that one as it seemed funny |
