| 00:00.20 | beandog | River++ |
| 00:00.33 | *** kick/#uphpu [beandog!n=bigdog@208.177.146.102.ptr.us.xo.net] by thebigdog (boccccaaaaaaaaaaa) |
| 00:00.33 | *** join/#uphpu beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
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| 00:00.40 | beandog | ooh. |
| 00:00.41 | beandog | evil. |
| 00:00.48 | thebigdog | i just had to do that |
| 00:00.53 | thebigdog | cause river sucks |
| 00:01.03 | thebigdog | boca+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 |
| 00:01.05 | beandog | ah man |
| 00:01.09 | beandog | I miss Argentina. :( |
| 00:01.16 | thebigdog | yeah i do too |
| 00:01.26 | thebigdog | im trying to get the wife to go down to bariloche with me |
| 00:01.31 | thebigdog | but she doesnt want to go |
| 00:01.35 | beandog | sooo pretty. |
| 00:01.46 | thebigdog | i would do a road trip down there in a heartbeat |
| 00:01.56 | beandog | lets go, thebigdog |
| 00:01.57 | beandog | :) |
| 00:01.57 | thebigdog | i have even looked for jobs down there...but alas |
| 00:02.03 | thebigdog | yeah we should plan something |
| 00:02.14 | mgeary | that'd be quite a drive |
| 00:02.17 | thebigdog | i tried to see if any fishing guide company need a translator or something |
| 00:02.28 | thebigdog | yeah...i would fly most of the way though |
| 00:02.34 | beandog | its a long flight |
| 00:02.37 | beandog | 14 hours or so |
| 00:02.57 | thebigdog | so when i left my last area it took me 7days to get all the way home |
| 00:03.38 | thebigdog | but in miami i had my first egg mcmuffin in 2 years |
| 00:03.41 | thebigdog | it was great |
| 00:04.05 | thebigdog | best one i have ever had |
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| 00:04.51 | mgeary | later folks |
| 00:04.52 | *** part/#uphpu mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 00:07.45 | beandog | heh |
| 00:07.46 | beandog | 7 days? |
| 00:07.54 | mindjuju | 7 days? |
| 00:09.58 | mindjuju | a lot can happen in 7 days |
| 00:11.25 | thebigdog | yeah i spent 1.5 days on the bus to mission home |
| 00:11.33 | thebigdog | 2.5 days in mission home |
| 00:12.02 | thebigdog | 2.0 days in B.S. |
| 00:12.13 | thebigdog | and then the rest of the time flying home |
| 00:12.22 | thebigdog | i had like 5 layovers all over the us |
| 00:12.32 | mindjuju | where did you go again? |
| 00:12.34 | thebigdog | like 7 hours in LAX |
| 00:12.36 | mindjuju | somewhere in SA |
| 00:12.41 | thebigdog | argentina |
| 00:12.45 | mindjuju | oh yeah |
| 00:12.58 | beandog | how could you forget?? |
| 00:12.58 | beandog | geez. |
| 00:13.15 | thebigdog | yeah your as bad as beandog |
| 00:13.18 | beandog | heh |
| 00:13.28 | thebigdog | those day stops were fun though...we did stuff to pass the time |
| 00:13.44 | mindjuju | i knew, because they keep talking about chorizo and different kinds of food |
| 00:13.53 | thebigdog | i hate that stuff |
| 00:13.56 | mindjuju | thebigdog and macnewbold that is |
| 00:14.09 | beandog | chorizo! |
| 00:14.11 | beandog | mmm. |
| 00:14.14 | beandog | milanesa! |
| 00:14.15 | beandog | :D |
| 00:14.15 | thebigdog | yeah mac served up north though |
| 00:14.21 | beandog | Im getting fat just thinking about it |
| 00:14.22 | thebigdog | i love empanadas |
| 00:14.38 | thebigdog | beandog, where you living at now? |
| 00:14.42 | thebigdog | in orem? |
| 00:14.44 | beandog | Lago Salado |
| 00:14.54 | thebigdog | oh |
| 00:14.58 | beandog | u? |
| 00:15.00 | thebigdog | did you take down your gentoo site? |
| 00:15.03 | thebigdog | layton |
| 00:15.04 | beandog | uh |
| 00:15.05 | beandog | which one |
| 00:15.10 | thebigdog | utah gentoo |
| 00:15.16 | beandog | yah |
| 00:15.20 | beandog | thats been dead for a while. |
| 00:15.20 | beandog | :C |
| 00:15.44 | thebigdog | now i have free time so i wanted to help out on it if you were still doing it |
| 00:16.04 | beandog | I dont have any free time myself. |
| 00:16.05 | beandog | :T |
| 00:16.27 | herlo | just to help |
| 00:16.31 | herlo | :) |
| 00:16.37 | mindjuju | sup herlo |
| 00:16.57 | thebigdog | what site is that? |
| 00:17.13 | thebigdog | oh that windows admin site |
| 00:17.22 | beandog | yah |
| 00:17.26 | beandog | the other project I neglected. |
| 00:17.45 | thebigdog | lol |
| 00:17.57 | thebigdog | my projects make me too much $$$ to neglect |
| 00:18.41 | beandog | heh |
| 00:19.22 | mindjuju | ~lart thebigdog and all his money |
| 00:19.22 | jbot | crushes thebigdog and all his money with a full height scsi disk |
| 00:19.30 | beandog | perfect |
| 00:19.31 | beandog | :D |
| 00:19.31 | mindjuju | yeah! |
| 00:19.39 | thebigdog | i thought someone would have taken the bait on that one |
| 00:19.50 | beandog | alright |
| 00:19.53 | beandog | well Im going home |
| 00:19.56 | beandog | seeya guys |
| 00:19.58 | thebigdog | night |
| 00:19.58 | mindjuju | cya beandog |
| 00:35.29 | herlo | mindjuju: not much, just sitting at the TriLUG meeting at RedHat |
| 00:36.06 | herlo | mindjuju: what you doing? |
| 00:36.25 | mindjuju | patching a server and reviewing some code |
| 00:36.37 | herlo | mindjuju: sounds like fun |
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| 00:47.29 | thebigdog | oh hes back |
| 00:47.30 | herlo | :) |
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| 15:02.25 | Utah_Dave | I was just hit up by a guy to build an Orkut clone for him. |
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| 15:02.40 | Utah_Dave | as if there weren't enough crappy places on the internet |
| 15:02.53 | mgeary | and lemme guess, his budget was, say $2.5k |
| 15:03.07 | mgeary | but he'd give you 10% ownership |
| 15:05.22 | mgeary | i had some people contact me wanting to build a WebVan clone (online groceries). This was going to be the next multi-million-dollar IPO, but, gee, their development budget was $3k, could i do it for that? It'd be awfully nice of me.... |
| 15:07.45 | Lone_Wanderer | mgeary: I get a lot of people like that. |
| 15:08.01 | mgeary | yeah, i don't so much any more, but back in the boom days, sheesh |
| 15:08.26 | Lone_Wanderer | "Yeah man it's gonna be HUGE! And we'll TOTALLY make you a partner! Just do a little work for free and I swear you'll be a millionaire, just as soon as word gets around..." |
| 15:08.35 | mgeary | yeah |
| 15:08.53 | mgeary | but since the Great Idea™ was theirs, and you're *only* building it, they want to give you 10% |
| 15:09.03 | mgeary | idiots |
| 15:09.17 | Lone_Wanderer | One time a guy gave me that pitch and I said, basically, "Sorry, I've had too many of those fall through, I need you to pay me up front." |
| 15:09.27 | Lone_Wanderer | His response was "But I'm a Bishop, you can trust me!" |
| 15:09.38 | mgeary | danger, Will Robinson |
| 15:09.56 | mgeary | anyone prostituting their religion for monetary gain... well... |
| 15:10.07 | Utah_Dave | my current side project pays me a small monthly salary and 10% of the company, but I'm not building the whole company. I'm building just a part of it. |
| 15:10.09 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah. |
| 15:10.45 | Utah_Dave | plus a some cash to start. |
| 15:10.51 | Lone_Wanderer | Ten percent of it, UTD? |
| 15:11.05 | Utah_Dave | yup |
| 15:11.24 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, there you go. |
| 15:12.15 | Utah_Dave | yeah, it was a pretty fair deal. He paid me money up front to start, a small monthly salary and 10% |
| 15:12.58 | Utah_Dave | the company was already going and making money. He just wanted to add another service |
| 15:13.09 | mgeary | Utah_Dave: but they're bringing more to the table than just an idea, right? |
| 15:13.16 | mgeary | they've got infrastructure |
| 15:13.23 | mgeary | and they're actually working |
| 15:13.36 | Lone_Wanderer | As long as they're willing to actually pay real money for your work at the time you do it, I'm not too worried. |
| 15:14.14 | Utah_Dave | I agree. |
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| 15:14.43 | Lone_Wanderer | Even if it's not a lot of money, the fact that they've got a financial investment in the idea is what matters. |
| 15:14.44 | Utah_Dave | Plus it's something I've been wanting to do on my own for a long time, but didn't have the cash and support to do it. |
| 15:15.04 | Utah_Dave | so this worked out pretty well for me. |
| 15:15.10 | Lone_Wanderer | That's awesome. |
| 15:15.35 | mindjuju | i've been approached on that get paid x% on what we make |
| 15:16.11 | mindjuju | i just mentioned that if i do that, you're going to be back burner city and get x% of time i have available |
| 15:16.14 | Lone_Wanderer | Did you take them up on it, and if so how did it work out? |
| 15:16.36 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm sure they loved that. |
| 15:16.39 | mindjuju | and that if you want faster service, it's going to need to be payment now |
| 15:16.54 | mindjuju | well, not much you can counter that with |
| 15:17.48 | Lone_Wanderer | I've been thinking about making an open source business. |
| 15:17.58 | mindjuju | it's funny though, i'd never seen that type of thing until I got to Utah |
| 15:18.14 | Lone_Wanderer | Utah is the scam victim capital of the world for a reason. |
| 15:18.31 | mgeary | mindjuju: yeah. we really prefer not doing business with Utah companies. It's kind of say |
| 15:18.36 | mgeary | *sad |
| 15:18.46 | mindjuju | side jobs in Houston, the ones that I took, there was an expectation of you do work now, and i pay you now |
| 15:19.12 | mindjuju | can't tell you how many people have told me this one line, i'm sure you guys have all heard |
| 15:19.23 | mindjuju | "the product actually sells itself!" |
| 15:19.29 | mindjuju | darn MLM pushing addicts |
| 15:19.37 | Lone_Wanderer | I hope I don't offend anyone by saying this, but I really think that the LDS culture (not religion) is at least partly responsible. |
| 15:19.37 | mindjuju | i have to chase them away with a broom |
| 15:19.38 | mgeary | ugh |
| 15:20.06 | mindjuju | heh |
| 15:20.57 | mindjuju | and the pinnicle of the matter? there is even a website now where you can shop around for the newest MLMs |
| 15:21.22 | Lone_Wanderer | Having faith is a delicate balance. It's easy to forget to use your brain and just believe anything anyone tells you. |
| 15:21.58 | mgeary | i just don't see the association. I'm a faithful, strictly-adhering Mormon, and i just don't see any connection between my lifestyle and faith, and network marketing |
| 15:22.13 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm not talking about network marketing specifically |
| 15:22.20 | mgeary | i believe MLMs are connected to *Utah's* culture, not Mormon culture |
| 15:22.30 | mgeary | may be splitting hairs, but.... |
| 15:22.30 | Lone_Wanderer | Can you really separate the two? |
| 15:22.30 | mindjuju | well, here is the thing i keep telling everybody, if you do this, you won't get into a bad situation. -- Never do business with somebody you can't yell at |
| 15:22.45 | mindjuju | or sue |
| 15:22.46 | Lone_Wanderer | And it's not MLM's specifically. They're not all scams. |
| 15:23.03 | mindjuju | curious, i'd be interested to see one that isn't a scam |
| 15:23.08 | Lone_Wanderer | But I've heard a lot of Mormons talking about faith and applying it to non-religious things. |
| 15:23.16 | Lone_Wanderer | Xango, Noni Juice |
| 15:23.20 | Lone_Wanderer | There are a lot of them. |
| 15:23.27 | mgeary | Bad Ideas™ |
| 15:23.29 | mindjuju | heard of noni juice |
| 15:23.33 | Lone_Wanderer | Bad ideas, but not scams. |
| 15:23.42 | mindjuju | cures cancer, liver problems, joint problems |
| 15:23.43 | mgeary | uh, well. whatever |
| 15:23.48 | Lone_Wanderer | They have a real product that people buy because they want it, not because they want to resell it. |
| 15:24.00 | mindjuju | the people who were drinking it before have never died cause they are so healthy |
| 15:24.05 | Lone_Wanderer | I personally think Noni Juice is the new snake oil |
| 15:24.17 | Lone_Wanderer | but that doesn't make the company a pyramid scam |
| 15:24.17 | mindjuju | yeah, that's what i'm saying |
| 15:24.21 | mindjuju | oh |
| 15:24.27 | mindjuju | k, fair enough |
| 15:24.32 | mindjuju | i group the two though |
| 15:24.33 | Lone_Wanderer | I used to work for a guy who was making an MLM dating site, and he paid for me to go to an MLM conference |
| 15:24.43 | mgeary | MLM dating site??? |
| 15:24.51 | mindjuju | MLM dating? |
| 15:24.53 | Lone_Wanderer | one of the guys who spoke was a lawyer, and he talked about how to avoid making a pyramid scam |
| 15:24.56 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah, don't ask. |
| 15:25.05 | Lone_Wanderer | Good :) |
| 15:25.30 | Lone_Wanderer | The difference between a pyramid scam and an MLM is that in a pyramid scam, nobody ever buys your product except to get in on the scam. |
| 15:25.32 | mindjuju | ugh, 10 things to avoid to keep your shade business, this side of legal |
| 15:25.37 | wps | I agree with you one hundred percent about snake oil, Lone_Wanderer |
| 15:25.37 | mindjuju | there's a speech i want to go to |
| 15:25.41 | Lone_Wanderer | In an MLM, people are actually buying your product because they like it. |
| 15:25.56 | mindjuju | psh |
| 15:26.03 | Lone_Wanderer | The real difference though is what you require people to do in order to join your "network". |
| 15:26.05 | mgeary | Lone_Wanderer: or because they're distributors and need to keep their numbers up |
| 15:26.13 | mindjuju | in an MLM people are buying your product because they have to hit thier quota |
| 15:26.18 | mgeary | heh |
| 15:26.31 | Lone_Wanderer | If you require them to purchase a certain amount of product just to get into the "network", or to keep their numbers up or something |
| 15:26.35 | mindjuju | in my experience in working tech support for an MLM in provo, the only consumers were the MLM members |
| 15:26.39 | Lone_Wanderer | or create any incentive for people to buy stuff they won't really use |
| 15:26.52 | Lone_Wanderer | you can get slammed by the FTC (I think that's the right three-letter agency) |
| 15:27.18 | mindjuju | well, i can tell you these guys are still in business, and we saw it day in, day out |
| 15:27.26 | mindjuju | especially towards close of the month |
| 15:27.28 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, call the FTC then. |
| 15:27.37 | Lone_Wanderer | I would :p |
| 15:27.53 | mindjuju | i don't think it is illegal for a person to waste their money |
| 15:27.57 | Lone_Wanderer | No, it's not |
| 15:28.01 | Lone_Wanderer | and I don't know where the line is |
| 15:28.01 | mindjuju | and it is on this side of legal |
| 15:28.14 | Lone_Wanderer | but if they're buying things just to keep their numbers up... |
| 15:28.15 | wps | my friend and I are in the preliminary stages of putting together a non-profit that will make MLMs/pyramids illegal… or at least expose them to the point where we can make a difference |
| 15:28.20 | mindjuju | and it's a shame too, cause the company had real nice benefits |
| 15:28.49 | Lone_Wanderer | How can a business, non profit or not, make a business model illegal? |
| 15:29.00 | mindjuju | and is actually real family friendly. I liked the company, just hated the MLM trickery |
| 15:29.02 | wps | encourage legislation to be passed |
| 15:29.33 | Lone_Wanderer | I don't have any problem with MLM's so long as there's an actual demand for the product, and they don't abuse their distributors. |
| 15:30.01 | mindjuju | yeah, i shouldn't be so jaded |
| 15:30.09 | wps | I think that the greedy, con-artists heads of such organizations need to not prey on the weak and create a real company |
| 15:30.22 | wps | how's that for blunt? |
| 15:30.24 | wps | :) |
| 15:30.39 | mindjuju | i've actually seen 1 MLM that wasn't snake oil, had a good setup and was fair |
| 15:30.47 | Lone_Wanderer | I think that you're making a sweeping generalization. |
| 15:30.55 | wps | of course |
| 15:31.20 | Lone_Wanderer | And I think that, regardless of the character of the company founders, the fault lies at least partially with the people who give them their money. |
| 15:31.22 | mindjuju | it sold these slimming girdles for women, so it wasn't really even an MLM |
| 15:31.32 | mindjuju | but a factory that produced these wholesale |
| 15:31.34 | Lone_Wanderer | ? |
| 15:31.40 | mindjuju | and looking for people to sell through |
| 15:31.43 | Lone_Wanderer | The product doesn't determine the business model. |
| 15:32.08 | Lone_Wanderer | You can sell anything (even dating, apparently) with the MLM model. |
| 15:32.30 | wps | it amazes me how stupid people are |
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| 15:33.05 | Utah_Dave | http://onetinyseed.com/designer.gif |
| 15:33.05 | Lone_Wanderer | Well when you're never taught to think critically |
| 15:33.10 | Lone_Wanderer | you've got no real defense |
| 15:33.26 | mgeary | Lone_Wanderer: woah |
| 15:34.10 | Utah_Dave | I sent that link to a couple guys that were trying to get me to build some software for them |
| 15:34.40 | wps | thanks, Utah_Dave ! |
| 15:34.43 | wps | that's awesome |
| 15:35.22 | Lone_Wanderer | mgeary: what? |
| 15:35.29 | Lone_Wanderer | UTD: I love it! |
| 15:35.34 | mgeary | "never taught to think critically" |
| 15:35.43 | Lone_Wanderer | Ja? |
| 15:36.03 | mgeary | i disagree with that premise |
| 15:36.22 | Lone_Wanderer | With the premise that lacking critical thinking skills might lead someone to buy into a scam? |
| 15:36.37 | mgeary | no. maybe i misunderstood |
| 15:37.06 | Lone_Wanderer | Or with the premise that a lot of people in Utah are never taught critical thinking skills because they're constantly bombarded with "Have faith. Don't ask questions."? |
| 15:37.08 | Lone_Wanderer | ;) |
| 15:37.17 | mgeary | yep |
| 15:37.20 | Lone_Wanderer | Gotcha. |
| 15:37.34 | mgeary | if people don't learn critical thinking skills, it's because they choose not to, imho |
| 15:38.08 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, all I know is that Utah is the scam victim capital of the US, and that we also have the most Mormons in the US. |
| 15:38.09 | mgeary | i did 2 years of schooling at BYU after 2 years at an extremely-high-ranked (but unfortunately expensive) liberal arts college |
| 15:38.14 | Lone_Wanderer | Correlation is not causation, of course. |
| 15:38.19 | _psychic_ | agreed |
| 15:38.33 | _psychic_ | I think it's people placing false trust in ward members. |
| 15:38.49 | mgeary | i had some excellent profs at BYU (German dept), who did wonders on critical thinking nurturing |
| 15:38.50 | _psychic_ | "He's in the bishoprick, so this investment can't be bad." |
| 15:38.56 | Lone_Wanderer | But I have met a lot of people, who are Mormon, and who have said to me "Why do you ask so many questions? Why can't you just have faith?" when discussing things that are not related to religion at all. |
| 15:39.22 | jsmith | Lone_Wanderer: I don't think that's particular to Mormonism... |
| 15:39.29 | jsmith | Lone_Wanderer: I hear the same thing from people of many faiths |
| 15:39.43 | _psychic_ | which is an incorrect perception of faith |
| 15:39.52 | Lone_Wanderer | Of course it is incorrect. |
| 15:40.21 | _psychic_ | Faith is when you pay cash for sins. Everyone knows that. |
| 15:40.44 | mgeary | of course, a bunch of programmers aren't going be likely victims of critical-thinking-underdevelopment |
| 15:40.53 | Lone_Wanderer | You'd hope not. |
| 15:47.09 | mindjuju | you know what we need? a random Worf quote |
| 15:47.24 | mindjuju | i actually tasted noni juice |
| 15:47.35 | mindjuju | not very fruity, let me tell you that |
| 15:47.40 | thebigdog | can i just say how thankful i am that today is friday |
| 15:47.57 | mindjuju | i'm working all weekend thebigdog |
| 15:47.58 | fungus | Today is a good day to die! |
| 15:48.08 | mindjuju | ~lart thebigdog and his friday happiness |
| 15:48.08 | jbot | shoots thebigdog and his friday happiness in the head |
| 15:48.12 | thebigdog | ty fungus i agree |
| 15:48.22 | mindjuju | i'm going to use that one, fungus |
| 15:48.48 | thebigdog | man people piss me off sometimes |
| 15:48.55 | thebigdog | i mean really make me mad |
| 15:49.00 | PoeticIntensity | heh. |
| 15:49.08 | mindjuju | hey, was just joking about the lart and friday, thebigdog |
| 15:49.17 | mgeary | "Our gods are dead. Ancient Klingon warriors slew them a millenium ago" |
| 15:49.39 | thebigdog | mindjuju, im not talking about you but coworkers |
| 15:49.46 | mindjuju | oh |
| 15:50.01 | Lone_Wanderer | Dude, I'd love to be a member of a race that killed their own gods. Not even the Greeks were that awesome. |
| 15:50.03 | fungus | "I am NOT a merry man!" |
| 15:50.24 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: Well, there was a bunch of God death in Greek mythology. |
| 15:50.25 | thebigdog | fungus, that is my motto today |
| 15:50.31 | _psychic_ | Lone_Wanderer: America isn't too far from that, depending on how you look at it. |
| 15:50.54 | Lone_Wanderer | _psychic_: America can't kill God :p |
| 15:50.56 | mindjuju | well, in that case do what I do, thebigdog, do what I do, take away network rights until they appease you |
| 15:50.59 | dataw0lf | yes, almost succeeding in getting creationism taught in schools qualifies as 'killing God' |
| 15:51.11 | dataw0lf | screw killing God, it's much easier to kill fetuses |
| 15:51.19 | _psychic_ | like I said |
| 15:51.24 | thebigdog | mindjuju, that aint a bad idea right now |
| 15:51.32 | Lone_Wanderer | They can do what they should have done a long time ago and separate religion from the government, but that won't stop people from going to church on Sunday. |
| 15:51.33 | thebigdog | not sure my boss will like that |
| 15:51.37 | _psychic_ | Not in the literal sense, but in the practical sense. |
| 15:51.56 | _psychic_ | religion is separate from government |
| 15:51.57 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: I wish it were so, but it's not. |
| 15:52.00 | Lone_Wanderer | Either that or inject all religions into government. |
| 15:52.04 | mindjuju | hey from the standpoint of database integrity, i come some ditz putting in data and then trying to rip it out of the database |
| 15:52.09 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: what isn't? |
| 15:52.13 | mindjuju | sorry, not come, caught |
| 15:52.15 | Lone_Wanderer | Including the Church of the Subgenius and Pastafarianism. |
| 15:52.17 | dataw0lf | the death of religion in America |
| 15:52.27 | _psychic_ | religion != god |
| 15:52.40 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh. Well then what are you talking about? |
| 15:52.42 | dataw0lf | true enough, but for too many it is. |
| 15:52.54 | Lone_Wanderer | Klingons do not "pursue relationships." They conquer that which they desire. |
| 15:53.02 | dataw0lf | organized religion is an antique concept, and needs to be removed from society. |
| 15:53.04 | mgeary | ~worf |
| 15:53.33 | mindjuju | so, i called a high level pow wow, and threated to remove all access UNLESS she was taught to follow checklists and if she had questions to ASK SOMEBODY!!! and that if not, i couldn't guarantee database integrity |
| 15:53.33 | dataw0lf | the idea that I need fear instilled into me to be moral is laughable. |
| 15:53.35 | Lone_Wanderer | mindjuju: Is she cute and single? |
| 15:53.46 | Lone_Wanderer | dataw0lf: Not all organized religions operate on that concept. |
| 15:53.52 | mindjuju | uh no and yes |
| 15:53.57 | Lone_Wanderer | Gotcha. |
| 15:53.58 | _psychic_ | mine doesn't |
| 15:54.06 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: Bull. 99% of organized religion is based completely upon fear and the herd mindset. |
| 15:54.08 | mindjuju | recently divorced in early 40tys |
| 15:54.09 | Lone_Wanderer | So, question for you all. |
| 15:54.15 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: that's an exaggeration |
| 15:54.23 | Lone_Wanderer | Is it socially acceptable to attempt to strike up a friendship with a girl at the gym? |
| 15:54.38 | mindjuju | L_W, besides working out, what is a gym for |
| 15:54.42 | Lone_Wanderer | dataw0lf: Maybe "western" religion, but that only makes up half (at most) of the world's religions. |
| 15:55.02 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, the "friendship" would be a ruse meant to get her to go out with me. |
| 15:55.08 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: Bull. Hinduism and it's derivatives are based on fear as well. |
| 15:55.19 | dataw0lf | Although I will grant you that Buddhism seems to be a 'more evolved' religion. |
| 15:55.22 | Lone_Wanderer | Buddhism and Confucianism aren't. |
| 15:55.35 | Lone_Wanderer | Don't know much about Hinduism. |
| 15:56.00 | dataw0lf | If I was good enough to be a Buddhist, I would be. But I'm not. |
| 15:56.18 | mindjuju | AFAIK, there is a coorelation between hinduism and the Caste system |
| 15:56.27 | mindjuju | but i can't remember what it is |
| 15:56.28 | Lone_Wanderer | You don't have to be good to be a buddhist. |
| 15:56.33 | Lone_Wanderer | You don't have to do anything to be a Buddhist. |
| 15:56.37 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: Bull! |
| 15:56.49 | dataw0lf | I've research Buddhism extensively, and attended a lecture by the Dalai Lama |
| 15:56.54 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: there is. |
| 15:57.00 | dataw0lf | Hinduism is a fairly despicable religion. |
| 15:57.24 | mindjuju | yeah, i thought there was |
| 15:57.24 | Lone_Wanderer | Then you should know that you are a Buddha. |
| 15:57.24 | dataw0lf | but most religions are. |
| 15:57.25 | Lone_Wanderer | You are already perfect and whole. You just need to realize and accept it. |
| 15:57.25 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: If I was going to become a Buddhist, I would become a Buddhist. I wouldn't half ass it. |
| 15:57.34 | Lone_Wanderer | Don't "become" a Buddhist. Just be one. |
| 15:57.57 | dataw0lf | I'd be a terrible Buddhist. I'm too mean and too concept and materially orientated. |
| 15:58.01 | dataw0lf | that's what I'm saying. |
| 15:58.06 | Lone_Wanderer | Okay. |
| 15:58.43 | fungus | Buddhism is the only religion that makes sense to me. I would be buddhist if it didn't require so much work. |
| 15:59.01 | Lone_Wanderer | It doesn't require any work. |
| 15:59.11 | fungus | bull crap |
| 15:59.21 | fungus | meditation, compassion, teaching, etc. etc. |
| 15:59.38 | Lone_Wanderer | Meditation isn't hard. Especially not zazen. |
| 15:59.40 | Lone_Wanderer | You just sit. |
| 15:59.43 | dataw0lf | ha |
| 15:59.48 | dataw0lf | meditation is one of the hardest things you can do |
| 15:59.58 | fungus | I'm too lazy for a religion. |
| 15:59.59 | Lone_Wanderer | Some kinds of meditation. Not zazen. |
| 16:00.04 | mindjuju | don't all religions ask for meditation, compassion, teaching, etc? |
| 16:00.13 | Lone_Wanderer | All you have to do is sit. |
| 16:00.48 | fungus | Not Catholicism. They just confess every so often. :) |
| 16:01.02 | dataw0lf | see, I like Catholics, actually. |
| 16:01.06 | dataw0lf | they're sweet. |
| 16:01.26 | dataw0lf | I wouldn't mind freelancing for the catholics, killing demons and stuff. |
| 16:01.32 | dataw0lf | they're so pagan, I just love it. |
| 16:01.41 | Lone_Wanderer | http://barrygraham.livejournal.com/ |
| 16:02.04 | Lone_Wanderer | He's published a book as well, but he'd probably be the first to tell you that you don't need to buy it. |
| 16:02.04 | mindjuju | yeah, but dataw0lf, you just like the catholics that are attending a Catholic girl school |
| 16:02.04 | dataw0lf | the amount of paganism christianity has over time incorporated into their religion to influence and dominate cultures is fascinating |
| 16:02.04 | dataw0lf | that too |
| 16:03.33 | Lone_Wanderer | http://barrygraham.livejournal.com/414788.html on zazen (briefly) |
| 16:03.35 | dataw0lf | I kinda hope I'm wrong about Christianity and there are demons and stuff. |
| 16:04.33 | fungus | The only demons that exist are in your head. Especially *your* head. |
| 16:07.32 | dataw0lf | Nuh uh! |
| 16:07.32 | dataw0lf | (I AM LEGION) |
| 16:07.32 | dataw0lf | You're ridiculous |
| 16:07.33 | Lone_Wanderer | "Are you the Son of Mogh?" "Yes I am." "Is it true you can kill someone just by looking at them?" "Only when I am angry." |
| 16:08.05 | Lone_Wanderer | Ahh, here we go. The entry about how to do zazen. |
| 16:08.06 | Lone_Wanderer | http://urbanmonk.livejournal.com/30882.html |
| 16:09.18 | fungus | "If you were any other man, I would kill you where you stand!" -- Worf |
| 16:09.33 | Lone_Wanderer | That was a good... was it a movie or an episode? |
| 16:09.36 | Lone_Wanderer | Whatever it was, it was good. |
| 16:09.46 | dataw0lf | episode |
| 16:10.02 | Lone_Wanderer | Which one? |
| 16:10.21 | Lone_Wanderer | TNG was just good all around. |
| 16:10.31 | fungus | That one was from First Contact |
| 16:10.44 | Lone_Wanderer | That's what I thought. When Worf wants to stop fighting the Borg. |
| 16:11.02 | fungus | Yup |
| 16:11.26 | Lone_Wanderer | What I've always wondered is why people didn't just resort to melee weapons or firearms any time they dealt with the Borg. Their shield thingies only seemed to work against energy weapons. |
| 16:11.50 | dataw0lf | I thought it was an episode, huh |
| 16:12.03 | dataw0lf | Borg == commies |
| 16:12.24 | Lone_Wanderer | Swiss commies. |
| 16:12.31 | Lone_Wanderer | Swedish, rather. |
| 16:12.46 | dataw0lf | it's strange that most of humanity strives to be like everyone else, yet are terrified of being like everyone else |
| 16:12.53 | dataw0lf | isn't that weird? |
| 16:13.31 | dataw0lf | 'I'm a rebel... *puts goth makeup on and joins the herd*' |
| 16:13.48 | fungus | lol |
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| 16:18.29 | Lone_Wanderer | yo dataw0lf |
| 16:18.43 | dataw0lf | yo |
| 16:18.47 | Lone_Wanderer | WE'RE DRIVIN' TO FLORIDA!!!!! |
| 16:18.59 | dataw0lf | WOOHOO! |
| 16:19.34 | dataw0lf | that's what Von Zippers are fo' |
| 16:19.59 | Lone_Wanderer | Von Zippers? |
| 16:21.01 | dataw0lf | best sunglasses ever |
| 16:21.31 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh |
| 16:21.37 | Lone_Wanderer | I actually need a good pair of sunglasses |
| 16:21.42 | Lone_Wanderer | that won't make me look like an idiot or a redneck |
| 16:21.53 | dataw0lf | I got me five pairs of VZs |
| 16:22.10 | dataw0lf | almost time to bring em out of winter retirement |
| 16:48.14 | Lone_Wanderer | Sweet, this site's captcha is a math question. |
| 16:48.14 | Lone_Wanderer | "What is 9 plus 13?" |
| 16:48.49 | mgeary | see, but that's unfair, 'cause it'd screen mindjuju out, as well as spambots |
| 16:49.00 | mgeary | zing |
| 16:51.15 | dataw0lf | ooooh burn |
| 17:00.09 | mgeary | shocked him into silence |
| 17:00.55 | mgeary | ~fishslap mindjuju |
| 17:01.16 | jbot | ACTION slaps mindjuju up side the head with a wet fish. |
| 17:10.42 | Lone_Wanderer | dataw0lf: "Given the current stop-loss orders in effect, with the difficulty the military has had in retaining all personnel, I suspect the only real requirements right now are breathing and willing, and the latter probably is waivable." |
| 17:11.06 | dataw0lf | I was listening to NPR |
| 17:11.18 | dataw0lf | West Point graduates are leaving after their commission at 50% |
| 17:11.23 | dataw0lf | compared to 10% before the Iraqi War |
| 17:11.25 | dataw0lf | hee hee |
| 17:11.57 | Lone_Wanderer | That's because West Point produces girls and wimps. |
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| 17:14.12 | Lone_Wanderer | jbot: onjoin macnewbold Congratulations. You are now fully dilated to ten centimeters. You may now give birth. |
| 17:14.12 | jbot | Lone_Wanderer: ok |
| 17:20.14 | macnewbold | ? |
| 17:20.31 | Lone_Wanderer | Today is Worf quotes day. |
| 17:20.40 | Lone_Wanderer | "Sir, I object. I am NOT a Merry Man!" |
| 17:20.42 | macnewbold | that's not a worf quote |
| 17:20.50 | macnewbold | oh, that one is |
| 17:20.54 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh but it is. |
| 17:21.02 | Lone_Wanderer | He says it to Keiko when she's giving birth. |
| 17:21.02 | macnewbold | I was talking about the birth thing at first |
| 17:21.12 | macnewbold | hm |
| 17:21.16 | macnewbold | ah, yes |
| 17:21.18 | macnewbold | good call |
| 17:21.28 | Lone_Wanderer | Then he complains about it not being like the holodeck simulation, which was "very orderly". |
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| 18:28.38 | Lone_Wanderer | Great, now I've got Men Without Hats in my head. |
| 18:28.46 | mgeary | awesome |
| 18:29.02 | Lone_Wanderer | If it were the Safety Dance it'd be awesome but it's not. |
| 18:33.06 | mgeary | which one? |
| 18:33.51 | Lone_Wanderer | Jenny Wore Black |
| 18:34.04 | mgeary | from Pop Goes the World |
| 18:34.09 | mgeary | aww, that's alright |
| 18:34.10 | Lone_Wanderer | Do you have... oh snap I just forgot the name of the song. |
| 18:34.15 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah, that's the album. |
| 18:34.22 | mgeary | i'm sure i do have it |
| 18:34.43 | Lone_Wanderer | Name all their albums? |
| 18:34.44 | mgeary | hum a few bars |
| 18:34.53 | Lone_Wanderer | mmmmm mmmmm mmmmmmmm mm mmmmm |
| 18:35.00 | Lone_Wanderer | No wait, that's Crash Test Dummies. |
| 18:35.05 | mgeary | yeah |
| 18:35.06 | mgeary | thought so |
| 18:35.12 | mgeary | have that too |
| 18:35.17 | mgeary | albums: |
| 18:35.26 | mgeary | Rhythm of Youth |
| 18:35.28 | mgeary | Pop Goes the World |
| 18:35.36 | mgeary | Very Best Of.. |
| 18:35.45 | mgeary | that's it, but for some singles |
| 18:35.52 | Lone_Wanderer | I have Pop Goes the World and the Rhythm of Youth. |
| 18:35.58 | Lone_Wanderer | Don't they have one called Life in the 21st Century? |
| 18:36.15 | mgeary | The Adventures of Women & Men Without Hate in the 21st Century |
| 18:36.17 | mgeary | ah right |
| 18:36.32 | Lone_Wanderer | The one I'm thinking of is from that album. |
| 18:36.33 | mgeary | huh |
| 18:36.43 | mgeary | also Sideways. gee, i never saw that one |
| 18:37.32 | Lone_Wanderer | So there's one |
| 18:37.34 | mgeary | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventures_of_Women_%26_Men_Without_Hate_in_the_21st_Century |
| 18:37.39 | Lone_Wanderer | I think it's a reprise of the Great Ones Remember |
| 18:37.52 | mgeary | that's from Rhythm of Youth. i have that on |
| 18:37.53 | mgeary | e |
| 18:37.57 | Lone_Wanderer | Or maybe No Dancing. |
| 18:38.01 | mgeary | track 10 |
| 18:38.02 | Lone_Wanderer | But it's really short |
| 18:38.14 | mgeary | No Dancing is from Very Best of |
| 18:38.15 | mgeary | i have that |
| 18:38.25 | Lone_Wanderer | "Live in a fire, isn't it just like me / To change again / The final hour" |
| 18:38.31 | mgeary | yeah |
| 18:38.35 | mgeary | ban the game |
| 18:38.41 | mgeary | that's a great one |
| 18:38.46 | Lone_Wanderer | But it's just like 30 seconds long |
| 18:39.04 | mgeary | isn' |
| 18:39.13 | mgeary | isn't it strange? isn't it just like me to change again? |
| 18:39.24 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah. |
| 18:39.32 | mgeary | but this is 3:49 minutes |
| 18:39.39 | Lone_Wanderer | And the only accompaniment is a piano. And it's slow. |
| 18:40.23 | mgeary | you're sure you're not talking about No Dancing? that's short and slow |
| 18:40.30 | Lone_Wanderer | Maybe. |
| 18:40.37 | mgeary | and has kind of a pianoy accompaniment |
| 18:40.41 | Lone_Wanderer | But I don't think so. |
| 18:41.03 | mgeary | Folk of the 80's is a great one |
| 18:41.07 | Lone_Wanderer | Nope that's not it. |
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| 18:41.28 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh well. |
| 18:41.48 | Lone_Wanderer | So what's the legal status of albums that aren't being produced any more? |
| 18:41.58 | mgeary | http://www.lyricsdir.com/men-without-hats-ban-the-game-lyrics.html |
| 18:41.59 | Lone_Wanderer | My niece got ahold of my Pop Goes The World tape and shredded it |
| 18:42.21 | Lone_Wanderer | That's the one. |
| 18:42.31 | mindjuju | i'm bigger consumer rights guy, i say when you buy the tape, you own a license to use the songs on the top |
| 18:42.40 | Lone_Wanderer | And I don't know where my Rhythm of Youth tape is any more. |
| 18:42.41 | mindjuju | not top, tape |
| 18:42.44 | Lone_Wanderer | Probably in the garage. |
| 18:42.57 | macnewbold | I don't know what the legal status is, but I feel like if there's not a legal way to get it, but it is legal to possess a copy of it (i.e. out of print etc.) then it's fair game to get it somewhere else |
| 18:44.21 | mindjuju | macnewbold, that's exactly what i was trying to find a way to politely say |
| 18:44.28 | mindjuju | and i entirely agree |
| 18:44.43 | mindjuju | macnewbold ++ |
| 18:45.09 | macnewbold | check your local library for the CD... |
| 18:45.19 | Lone_Wanderer | I think this burrito is more than I've eaten at a single meal in at least a month. |
| 18:45.21 | macnewbold | with that particular one, if you find it, let me know... |
| 18:45.26 | mindjuju | or sniff the ether carefully |
| 18:45.37 | Lone_Wanderer | Which one Mac? |
| 18:49.40 | macnewbold | Pop Goes the World, or Men without Hats, or any other good 80's stuff I liked back in the day |
| 18:49.46 | Lone_Wanderer | k |
| 18:49.57 | Lone_Wanderer | I'll put that in as a search term ;) |
| 18:50.02 | macnewbold | haha |
| 18:50.14 | dataw0lf | Morris Day and the Time, son! |
| 18:51.00 | dataw0lf | My Jungle Love, yeaaah |
| 18:51.24 | mgeary | the 80's rocked |
| 18:51.43 | mgeary | Tainted Love. I mean c'mon, that song *embodies* the 80s |
| 18:51.56 | mgeary | that and Jump, by Bon Jovi ;) |
| 18:52.01 | Lone_Wanderer | I know a girl online who looks like an 80's film goddess. |
| 18:52.04 | mgeary | pretty much covers the spectrum |
| 18:52.14 | dataw0lf | the 80s rocked if you ignore the influx of immense materialism and coke fueled wall street deals |
| 18:52.15 | mgeary | does the have the hairspray claw thing going on? |
| 18:52.25 | mgeary | *the |
| 18:52.28 | Lone_Wanderer | I can provide links to pictures if you want them but they're borderline NSFW. (She took them to apply to a club called "Snatch".) |
| 18:52.29 | mgeary | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:52.32 | dataw0lf | **she |
| 18:52.40 | mgeary | heh |
| 18:52.55 | Lone_Wanderer | No, just big hair. |
| 18:54.02 | dataw0lf | everyone knows the only 80s film goddess is molly ringwald, sir |
| 18:54.02 | mgeary | molly++ |
| 18:54.09 | dataw0lf | heck yea |
| 18:54.19 | mgeary | Breakfast Club++ |
| 18:54.29 | dataw0lf | Sixteen Candles++ |
| 18:54.36 | Lone_Wanderer | Sloan from Ferris Buehler's Day Off? Hello? |
| 18:54.43 | timinator_ | Pretty in Pink++ |
| 18:54.47 | mgeary | yep |
| 18:54.52 | dataw0lf | yea, Sloan was pretty hot |
| 18:54.56 | mgeary | those soundtracks were all awesome |
| 18:55.34 | Lone_Wanderer | I kind of feel bad for the guy who was in all those movies with Molly Ringwald. |
| 18:55.48 | mgeary | Anthony Michael Hall? |
| 18:55.49 | mgeary | don't be |
| 18:55.52 | Lone_Wanderer | Because nobody knows his name. He's just "That guy who was in all those movies with Molly." |
| 18:56.00 | mgeary | he went on to play Bill Gates in Pirates of Silicon Valley |
| 18:56.01 | Lone_Wanderer | Except mgeary. |
| 18:56.10 | mgeary | or do you mean the "good looking guy"? |
| 18:56.22 | dataw0lf | When Cameron was in Egypt's land.... "let... my... cameron... GOOOOOOOOO" |
| 18:56.25 | Lone_Wanderer | No, the geeky guy with braces. |
| 18:56.26 | mgeary | Anthony Michael Hall was the nerd guy in 16 candles. |
| 18:56.29 | mgeary | yeah |
| 18:56.42 | mgeary | but he wasn't Ducky from Pretty in Pink. That was someone else |
| 18:57.00 | mgeary | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Michael_Hall |
| 18:57.36 | Lone_Wanderer | :) |
| 18:57.48 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah, that's him. |
| 18:57.54 | timinator_ | Better off Dead++ |
| 18:58.03 | mgeary | John Cusak is awesome |
| 18:58.05 | mgeary | Cusak++ |
| 18:58.11 | dataw0lf | John Cusack++++++++++ |
| 18:58.14 | mgeary | amen |
| 18:58.24 | mgeary | did you guys see Identity? |
| 18:58.38 | dataw0lf | Say Anything++++ |
| 18:58.39 | mgeary | or Being John Malkovich? |
| 18:58.41 | dataw0lf | both |
| 18:58.44 | mgeary | aww man |
| 18:58.51 | mgeary | you're bringing me back |
| 18:58.53 | dataw0lf | I've seen every Cusack movie evar |
| 18:59.02 | dataw0lf | including Stand By Me, with his small cameo as the older brother |
| 18:59.10 | mgeary | nice |
| 18:59.12 | dataw0lf | he was in Sixteen Candles for a little bit too |
| 18:59.15 | mgeary | yeah |
| 18:59.30 | mgeary | my favorite may well be Gross Pointe Blank, though |
| 18:59.34 | Lone_Wanderer | Anyone here read Snow Crash? |
| 18:59.36 | mgeary | that's just awesome |
| 18:59.45 | dataw0lf | mgeary: incredible movie |
| 18:59.47 | Lone_Wanderer | Gross Pointe Blank++ |
| 18:59.51 | mgeary | heh |
| 18:59.57 | mgeary | Joan is great in that one, too |
| 19:00.03 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 19:00.13 | dataw0lf | when he leaves the packet of money taped underneath her desk |
| 19:00.19 | mgeary | no, the soup line |
| 19:00.23 | dataw0lf | she's running around destroying things |
| 19:00.23 | mgeary | that's the best one |
| 19:00.23 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah :) |
| 19:00.43 | mgeary | http://www.weirdprofessortype.com/grossepointeblank.html |
| 19:01.13 | mgeary | gotta find the line |
| 19:01.32 | dataw0lf | "I was hired to kill you, but I'm not going to. It's either because I'm in love with your daughter or because I have a newfound respect for life." |
| 19:01.49 | dataw0lf | "That punk's either in love with that guy's daughter or he has a newfound respect for life!" |
| 19:02.27 | Lone_Wanderer | http://www.roesch-swiss.ch/?id=1142&prod_id=33 |
| 19:02.35 | timinator_ | MST3K++ |
| 19:02.39 | timinator_ | :) |
| 19:02.41 | dataw0lf | "What have you been doing with your life?" "Uhhh... professional killer." "Oh good for you, it's a growth industry." |
| 19:03.43 | dataw0lf | I like the omelete scene too |
| 19:04.27 | Lone_Wanderer | "Well technically then it's not an omelette." |
| 19:05.26 | dataw0lf | "Look, I don't want to get into a semantic argument, I just want the protein." |
| 19:05.47 | timinator_ | LOL |
| 19:05.56 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v timinator] by ChanServ |
| 19:06.11 | timinator | la la la laaaaaaaa |
| 19:06.26 | timinator | voice baby.... voice is where it's at |
| 19:12.07 | jsmith | timinator: That's why some of us are into VoIP ;-) |
| 19:13.38 | thebigdog | anyone ever deal with corrupt ogg files and how to fix them? |
| 19:14.46 | timinator | jsmith: LOL |
| 19:17.53 | herlo | thebigdog: you should ask spr in #utah |
| 19:18.02 | thebigdog | k |
| 19:18.07 | herlo | he wrote oggify and probably knows all the good stuff to tell you |
| 19:18.40 | thebigdog | ill have to wait and see when he get son |
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| 19:33.33 | Lone_Wanderer | http://thererack.com/blog/2007/04/13/so-a-pc-mac-and-linux-walk-into-a-bar/ |
| 19:36.02 | mindjuju | funny |
| 19:38.24 | Lone_Wanderer | I love gmail's mute thred thing. |
| 19:38.27 | Lone_Wanderer | thread* |
| 19:38.34 | timinator | very funny LW |
| 20:00.58 | Lone_Wanderer | mgeary: When my brother played Pop Goes the World (the album) for his roommate in college, while the intro was playing |
| 20:01.03 | Lone_Wanderer | (the one that takes a while to get going) |
| 20:01.14 | Lone_Wanderer | his roommate said "What is this, Men Without Instruments?" |
| 20:06.50 | mindjuju | anybody here use Cinelerra? |
| 20:09.01 | Lone_Wanderer | Is there a way to tell if a file download completed or not? |
| 20:09.09 | Lone_Wanderer | mindjuju: no I've never heard of it :( |
| 20:10.00 | mindjuju | oh, it's suppose to be OSS version of premiere |
| 20:10.06 | mindjuju | without the pricetag |
| 20:10.08 | mindjuju | http://heroinewarrior.com/cinelerra.php3 |
| 20:10.14 | Lone_Wanderer | Woah buddy. |
| 20:10.33 | Lone_Wanderer | Listening to this Men without Hats really brings me back to Jr. High. |
| 20:11.09 | Lone_Wanderer | Specifically to reading the Hitchhiker's Guide |
| 20:11.23 | Lone_Wanderer | 'cause I always listened to the Rhythm of Youth while I was reading that book. |
| 20:12.20 | mindjuju | what i wouldn't give for a "talking heads" album |
| 20:12.37 | mindjuju | especially the one with "we're on the road to nowhere" |
| 20:12.40 | mindjuju | love that song |
| 20:16.21 | Lone_Wanderer | I've got Road Movie to Berlin by TMBG but nothing by Talking Heads :( |
| 20:16.39 | mindjuju | TMBG is good |
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| 20:21.54 | beandog | ~lart PoeticIntensity |
| 20:21.54 | jbot | explains, ever so gently, that if PoeticIntensity doesn't give the channel more information, they can't help |
| 20:22.35 | PoeticIntensity | heh. |
| 20:22.42 | beandog | no good. |
| 20:22.43 | beandog | ~lart PoeticIntensity |
| 20:22.43 | jbot | slaps PoeticIntensity upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh |
| 20:23.05 | beandog | ~lart PoeticIntensity |
| 20:23.05 | jbot | takes PoeticIntensity to the vet for a "special" visit |
| 20:23.09 | beandog | meh. |
| 20:23.24 | PoeticIntensity | mindjuju, yes... I've used it like.. 3 times. |
| 20:23.35 | beandog | used what? |
| 20:23.41 | PoeticIntensity | All three times I've never even got it to accurately *read* any version of video file. |
| 20:24.18 | PoeticIntensity | I've needed a non-linear video editor in Linux now for about 3 years. Nothing exists that I know of (at least not worth mentioning) |
| 20:24.45 | beandog | avidemux? |
| 20:24.45 | beandog | what's nonlinear mean |
| 20:24.50 | PoeticIntensity | and Cinelerra is ... well.... impossible to use. |
| 20:25.10 | PoeticIntensity | I seriously haven't got it to even read an mpeg, or avi, or mov file - let alone edit one. |
| 20:25.49 | PoeticIntensity | sorry, beandog, gotta work. |
| 20:25.56 | beandog | did you try avidemux? |
| 20:25.57 | PoeticIntensity | This project needs to be done by Monday, end of day. |
| 20:26.07 | PoeticIntensity | I've never even heard of avidemux. |
| 20:26.15 | beandog | thats what I use to rip out commercials of all my recordings |
| 20:26.17 | beandog | and reencod em. |
| 20:26.17 | PoeticIntensity | and if you don't know what "nonlinear" means, I doubt it's what I need. |
| 20:26.36 | PoeticIntensity | man.... I'm being nasty today... Sorry, man. |
| 20:26.36 | beandog | ooh |
| 20:26.43 | PoeticIntensity | Something is wrong with me. |
| 20:26.50 | beandog | no birthday presents for you! |
| 20:26.50 | beandog | ~birthday PoeticIntensity |
| 20:26.52 | jbot | ACTION Happy Birthday to you, Happy birthday to you!, HAPPY BIRTHDAY DEEEAARR PoeticIntensity, Happy Birthday toooo yoooou! |
| 20:27.34 | beandog | avidemux works good. Its in portage, too. hard masked, but thats only because we were going to rip it out because its build system is so whacked. |
| 20:28.01 | PoeticIntensity | looks like it's something that is close, but not nearly close enough to something robust like Final Cut Pro, or Premiere. |
| 20:28.28 | PoeticIntensity | so it's not gonna be in portage long? |
| 20:28.36 | beandog | no |
| 20:28.39 | beandog | its been masked for |
| 20:28.43 | beandog | well, months. |
| 20:28.50 | beandog | we're just not supporting it. |
| 20:28.58 | PoeticIntensity | coo'. |
| 20:29.19 | beandog | or there's kino |
| 20:29.29 | beandog | Kino is a non-linear DV editor for GNU/Linux |
| 20:29.38 | PoeticIntensity | nope. |
| 20:29.42 | PoeticIntensity | kino isn't even close, either. |
| 20:29.56 | beandog | media-video/pitivi |
| 20:29.58 | PoeticIntensity | the closest I've found (besides the whole "cinelerra" thing) is "kdenlive" |
| 20:29.59 | beandog | never heard of that one. |
| 20:30.15 | PoeticIntensity | it allows multiple video / audio streams to be integrated into one video. |
| 20:30.26 | PoeticIntensity | avidemux / kino are just for cutting stuff up. |
| 20:30.29 | PoeticIntensity | not merging. |
| 20:30.36 | beandog | merging? |
| 20:30.39 | PoeticIntensity | yes. |
| 20:30.44 | beandog | like importing clips? |
| 20:30.48 | PoeticIntensity | yes. |
| 20:30.52 | beandog | Ive done that with avidemux |
| 20:30.54 | PoeticIntensity | on top of one another. |
| 20:30.57 | mindjuju | poeticIntensity, were you talking about Cinelerra, you've used it? |
| 20:30.59 | beandog | on top? |
| 20:31.00 | PoeticIntensity | and mutliple audio tracks. |
| 20:31.03 | beandog | Youre right, I dont understand. |
| 20:31.05 | PoeticIntensity | mindjuju, yes. |
| 20:31.16 | mindjuju | awesome! can i ask you a couple of question |
| 20:31.25 | PoeticIntensity | beandog, I graduated in Multimedia. I have to know this crud. |
| 20:31.45 | PoeticIntensity | mindjuju, if ya read the buffer, you'll soon realize that I have had *no* success whatsoever with cinelerra. |
| 20:31.56 | mindjuju | oh, bummer |
| 20:32.04 | beandog | mindjuju: what you need to do man |
| 20:32.06 | PoeticIntensity | I've used it 3 times. |
| 20:32.14 | beandog | plus the interface is bugly. |
| 20:32.25 | mindjuju | i've got 1 license of primerer 1.5 and tons of videos that need to be produced |
| 20:32.28 | PoeticIntensity | all 3 times were a year apart to allow for development... |
| 20:32.42 | PoeticIntensity | all three times were met with frustrating failure to even read a video file - of any type. |
| 20:32.59 | mindjuju | i have got an empty p4, 2ghz with 1g ram, |
| 20:33.01 | PoeticIntensity | I haven't touched it in awhile, so maybe it's cool now. |
| 20:33.04 | Lone_Wanderer | Hmm. |
| 20:33.10 | Lone_Wanderer | It's select distinct(whatever) right? |
| 20:33.15 | beandog | yah |
| 20:33.19 | PoeticIntensity | mindjuju, premier will do it. |
| 20:33.19 | Lone_Wanderer | Weird. |
| 20:33.20 | mindjuju | looking for some way to offload the rendering from the computer with primerer so that it can still be functional |
| 20:33.24 | beandog | er |
| 20:33.25 | beandog | no |
| 20:33.26 | PoeticIntensity | it's better than anything OS now. |
| 20:33.28 | beandog | wait |
| 20:33.33 | beandog | I forget if you need () |
| 20:33.43 | PoeticIntensity | in MySQL? |
| 20:33.49 | PoeticIntensity | distinct doesn't need () |
| 20:33.58 | PoeticIntensity | SELECT DISTINCT blah blah blah |
| 20:34.34 | Lone_Wanderer | hmm |
| 20:34.37 | mindjuju | so PoeticIntensity, how do i offload the rendering to a second computer so that the first can still edit ? |
| 20:34.42 | Lone_Wanderer | so I can't say that just one field is distinct? |
| 20:34.51 | PoeticIntensity | no idea, man. |
| 20:34.55 | PoeticIntensity | Lone_Wanderer, no. |
| 20:34.59 | PoeticIntensity | it's across all selected columns. |
| 20:35.04 | Lone_Wanderer | ok |
| 20:35.07 | Lone_Wanderer | lame |
| 20:35.09 | PoeticIntensity | very. |
| 20:35.34 | Lone_Wanderer | Fine, I'll track it manually. Cripes. |
| 20:35.45 | Lone_Wanderer | MySQL sucks more every day. |
| 20:35.50 | PoeticIntensity | mindjuju, I really don't know. Since all the A/V crap in Linux is elementary at best, I'm not sure how you'd do that. |
| 20:36.01 | PoeticIntensity | mplayer / mencoder does wonders with compressing... |
| 20:36.05 | PoeticIntensity | beandog, knows his crud about mplayer, too. |
| 20:36.05 | beandog | ++ |
| 20:36.09 | Lone_Wanderer | Insert obligatory "You can do that with postgres" comment. |
| 20:36.25 | beandog | Actually thats an SQL limitation you'll just have to work with. |
| 20:36.33 | PoeticIntensity | mindjuju, but rendering is different than compressing.... |
| 20:36.37 | beandog | although, with postgres you could do a subselect. :) |
| 20:36.38 | PoeticIntensity | I don't know how you'd offload anything. |
| 20:37.03 | PoeticIntensity | I don't believe that premier is meant to be used in conjunction with any external program / library set to render. |
| 20:37.16 | PoeticIntensity | MySQL does subselects, too with 5.0+ |
| 20:37.18 | mindjuju | yeah, was googling that this morn |
| 20:37.20 | PoeticIntensity | I use em' all the time. |
| 20:37.31 | beandog | isn't there some way to show the schema that was used to create a table? |
| 20:37.35 | mindjuju | seems like after effects can use somethign called gridiron, but that's about it |
| 20:37.40 | beandog | outside of mysqldump that is (Im in the mysql shell) |
| 20:38.09 | PoeticIntensity | EXPLAIN tablename; |
| 20:38.10 | Lone_Wanderer | I wonder how many programmers there are in the world |
| 20:38.10 | PoeticIntensity | I believe. |
| 20:38.19 | Lone_Wanderer | and how many lines of code we write collectively |
| 20:38.37 | beandog | No, that just shows me the schema... I need the CREATE TABLE foo .. command |
| 20:38.38 | beandog | :T |
| 20:38.41 | Lone_Wanderer | and how much of that ends up actually being used |
| 20:38.53 | PoeticIntensity | beandog, ah... phpmyadmin does that wonderfully. |
| 20:38.58 | PoeticIntensity | but console, dunno. |
| 20:40.29 | beandog | hmm. |
| 20:40.31 | beandog | ok |
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| 20:48.03 | mindjuju | anybody here use kino video editor ? |
| 20:51.15 | timinator | negative |
| 20:55.07 | mindjuju | how cool - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yoLSTWloMs |
| 20:56.59 | beandog | Lone_Wanderer: you here? |
| 20:57.35 | Lone_Wanderer | Yes. |
| 20:58.03 | beandog | me and Jason were trying to figure out how much of the office has left. |
| 20:58.08 | beandog | without getting up of course |
| 20:58.16 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh. Jon is still here if that's what you mean ;0 |
| 20:58.20 | Lone_Wanderer | ;) |
| 20:58.23 | beandog | heh |
| 20:58.43 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm leaving as soon as I make this zip thing work, or at 4:45, whichever comes sooner. |
| 20:58.52 | beandog | oh yah, hows it coming? |
| 20:58.57 | beandog | I would just do a system call if I were you |
| 20:59.06 | beandog | but Im lazy like that |
| 20:59.07 | beandog | sometimes. |
| 21:00.07 | Lone_Wanderer | That's what I'm going to do. |
| 21:01.35 | Lone_Wanderer | But I've got to worry about things like determining if the file already exists, what to do if it does, what to name it, how to handle files they bought three days ago, etc. |
| 21:01.39 | Lone_Wanderer | So far I'm just keeping it simple. |
| 21:01.43 | beandog | wait a minute |
| 21:01.52 | beandog | PoeticIntensity: editing multiple audio tracks in a movie? |
| 21:02.14 | beandog | wouldnt you just extract them, edit them individually, and then put them back in? |
| 21:02.34 | beandog | Oh, island beast? |
| 21:02.52 | beandog | sounds gloriously exciting. |
| 21:03.49 | PoeticIntensity | beandog, no... If you've ever tried to sync mouths to words using an external editor.... and various audio tracks - it's near impossible. |
| 21:03.59 | beandog | oh. |
| 21:04.00 | PoeticIntensity | the nonlinear video editor needs to be able to do it. |
| 21:04.03 | beandog | yah, Ive never tried that. |
| 21:04.15 | beandog | oh well. |
| 21:04.21 | beandog | I did watch Captain N the other night though. |
| 21:04.27 | PoeticIntensity | huzzah. |
| 21:04.33 | Lone_Wanderer | Well then you're excused from your noobing. |
| 21:04.36 | Lone_Wanderer | For now. |
| 21:04.39 | beandog | woots |
| 21:04.40 | beandog | :D |
| 21:04.58 | beandog | anyone else remember that cartoon show COPS |
| 21:06.54 | Lone_Wanderer | beandog how old are you, and are you dating anyone? |
| 21:07.00 | beandog | um |
| 21:07.05 | beandog | I dont see how thats relevant. |
| 21:07.16 | Lone_Wanderer | She's cute. |
| 21:07.25 | Lone_Wanderer | At least I think so. |
| 21:16.19 | beandog | Scooby Doo season 3 just came out too |
| 21:16.20 | beandog | I gotta get me that sucker. |
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| 21:16.20 | Lone_Wanderer | rofl |
| 21:16.20 | Lone_Wanderer | Jon is listening to Jungle Boogie |
| 21:16.20 | beandog | whats that |
| 21:16.20 | Lone_Wanderer | Complete with grunting vocals. |
| 21:16.20 | Lone_Wanderer | A song. Come on in and listen. |
| 21:16.21 | beandog | eh |
| 21:16.21 | beandog | I think I better pass |
| 21:16.21 | Lone_Wanderer | lol |
| 21:16.21 | Lone_Wanderer | It's quintessential 70's |
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| 22:03.00 | PoeticIntensity | hey jbot, wanna kick beandog_ for me? |
| 22:03.27 | PoeticIntensity | ~wake beandog_ |
| 22:03.42 | jbot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on beandog_ and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" |
| 22:04.27 | Lone_Wanderer | Hmm. |
| 22:04.38 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm trying to do some shell commands and they're not working |
| 22:04.51 | Lone_Wanderer | and there's nothing in stdout that helps |
| 22:05.15 | Lone_Wanderer | Ohh maybe that will fix it. |
| 22:05.38 | Lone_Wanderer | Nope. |
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| 22:25.55 | mgeary | what's up? |
| 22:26.03 | mgeary | what command(s)? |
| 22:29.05 | Lone_Wanderer | zip zips/5.zip music/201/2449.mp3 2>&1 |
| 22:31.53 | mgeary | and what are you intending to happen? |
| 22:44.31 | Lone_Wanderer | Well I want to add the second input (the music file) to the zip archive (the first input) |
| 22:44.37 | Lone_Wanderer | Which is what the command does when run from the command line. |
| 23:53.22 | *** part/#uphpu mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
