IRC log for #uphpu on 20070409

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11:32.34timinatormornin'
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14:46.22mgeary~moo
14:46.24jbotmooooooooo! I am cow, hear me moo, I weigh twice as much as you. I am cow, eating grass, methane gas comes out my ass, or http://www.linuks.mine.nu/moo/ and http://www.riddleme.com/html/cow2.html
14:46.37mgearywow
14:53.57mgeary~oink
14:53.59jboti heard oink is onomatopoeia for "Obviously you didn't calibrate the lateral phase stabilzers correctly because we're heading towards a giant bananna!"
14:54.11mgearyso it is
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15:05.03mgearyperfect for a spring morning
15:09.07dataw0lfmorning gentlemen.
15:10.58mgearyit's a beaut
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15:31.15timinatormornin' DW
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15:34.14dataw0lftiminator: morning, morning
15:37.37timinatoryou missed a great lunch on Fri
15:37.44timinatorlosr
15:37.47dataw0lftwas in San Fran
15:38.12timinatorso you probably had a great lunch anyway
15:38.27dataw0lfchinatown, ftw
15:39.15timinatorI like hitting the pier for "real" seafood
15:39.33timinators/real/fresh/
15:39.47timinatorhard to get fresh seafood in UT
15:40.55timinatoralso hard to get seafood in UT that is not deep fried
15:42.25timinatorI do like the salmon on focaccia bread from Roosters
15:42.29timinatormmmm
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15:54.13beandogbah
15:54.17beandogsilly konqueror is broken.
16:17.49timinatordid you guys see that O'Reilly has opened up an online tech school
16:18.10timinatorhttp://oreillyschool.com/
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16:36.02mgeary~avast
16:36.04jbotACTION Avast, ye scurvy dogs, hoist the main sail!
16:36.47Lone_WandererHow can I tell whether the file being accessed is index.php?
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16:37.16Lone_Wandererwhere index.php is the DirectoryIndex file for this directory, meaning that the browser won't necessarily be requesting index.php
16:38.29beandog?
16:38.34beandogThe browser doesnt get to pick the file to request.
16:38.36beandogThe web server does.
16:38.48Lone_WandererEh?
16:39.05beandogheh
16:39.07Lone_WandererSure it does.  It sends a GET request
16:39.09beandogwhat are you trying to do again?
16:39.15beandogYes, on /
16:39.19Lone_WandererI've got an include file (header)
16:39.26beandogok
16:39.29Lone_WandererRight, if it requests / then the server decides what to send.  Which is the point.
16:39.36beandogright
16:39.46Lone_WandererBut I've got the header and it needs to know whether it's being included by index.php or another page.
16:39.53beandogoh.
16:39.55Lone_Wanderer'cause on the index page it needs to leave out the sub-menu.
16:40.03beandogWell just do $_SERVER something
16:40.10beandogIts one of the variables
16:40.15beandogthe page being served
16:40.31Lone_Wandererk
16:40.42beandogI think it might be SELF
16:40.46beandog$_SERVER['SELF'];
16:40.51beandogmaybe not.
16:40.56beandogwho knows.  It won't take 2 seconds to find out anyway.
16:41.02Lone_Wandererright
16:41.16Lone_Wandererin the time it took you to type that, I added the code :p
16:42.33beandogheh
16:44.08Lone_WandererIt became clear to me, just now, why I need to be able to create a small EMP pulse on demand.
16:44.26Lone_WandererPreferably directed in a specific direction.
16:54.45mgeary"why is that, Lone_Wanderer?"
16:54.57dataw0lfsomeone is playing an annoying youtube video, I'm sure.
16:54.58Lone_WandererThere's a car outside whose alarm is going off and it's driving me nuts
16:55.14Lone_WandererI suppose a bit of conventional explosives would do the trick as well.
16:55.17Lone_WandererBut they're so noisy.
16:56.15Lone_WandererAnd I don't want to attract attention.  I just want to step outside for a minute, fry the car's electronics silently, and then go back to work in peace.
16:56.33beandogreally?
16:56.34Lone_WandererEither that or I could get noise-canceling headphones.
16:56.34beandogI can't hear it.
16:56.44beandogand I thought I was sensitive to noise.
16:56.47beandogwell, I am.
16:56.50Lone_WandererWell it's stopped now.
16:57.00Lone_WandererI think the construction keeps setting it off.  Give it abit.
16:57.00beandogah
16:57.09beandogI was listening to some flamenco music anyway, cant hear much of anything really.
16:57.42Lone_Wandererohhh, flamenco
16:57.48Lone_Wandereris it in the public domain?
16:57.52beandogno
16:57.57Lone_WandererAre you sure?
16:57.59beandogJesse Cook / Vertigo
16:58.00beandogyah
16:58.04beandogspanish guitar stuff
16:58.06Lone_WandererHas it ever been broadcast over the public airwaves?
16:58.09beandogwell, maybe spanish.  who knows.
16:59.13beandogbeats me
16:59.13Lone_WandererAt lunch on Friday he said that anything that gets broadcast over the air becomes public domain.
16:59.16beandogheh
16:59.17beandogI wish.
17:00.18beandogAlthough I do tend to agree that if something is publically broadcast, there shouldn't be any problem in getting a copy of that.
17:00.38beandogSince it was intended for public consumption.
17:00.54macnewboldmy understanding is that it doesn't become public domain, it just becomes fair game to record it. It doesn't become fair game to do whatever you want with that recording, like rebroadcasting it
17:01.03beandogright
17:01.14beandogbasically, who has the rights to make a copy
17:01.35macnewboldso it is perfectly legal to own a recording of a public broadcast, but it is not completely public domain
17:01.49beandogwell its not public domain at all.
17:02.08herloand /me also disagrees with beandog...
17:02.11beandogthanks to wonderful copyright laws where nothing has to be registered with the CO office anymore.
17:02.21Lone_WandererScroll up.
17:02.32herloLone_Wanderer: I know, I see the discussion now....
17:03.09beandogheh
17:03.20Lone_WandererErgh.
17:03.31Lone_WandererThis layout is hideous.  Maybe I'll just put tables inside of tables.
17:03.38beandogIn any event I let common sense and basic civil rights override stupid copyright laws sometimes anyway.
17:03.45beandogWhich is why I rip DVDs and don't feel bad.
17:04.35herlobeandog: :)
17:04.36beandogbut I don't download music or movies or tv shows.
17:04.47herlobeandog: :(
17:04.49*** join/#uphpu PoeticIntensity (n=jason@70.96.176.8)
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17:04.56PoeticIntensityg'day all.
17:04.59beandogI may be in the poor house, but at least I legally own every piece of media I have at home.
17:05.13PoeticIntensityLOL
17:05.16PoeticIntensityrock on, beandog
17:05.37Lone_Wandererhi PI
17:05.45PoeticIntensityhowdy Lone_Wanderer
17:05.46Lone_Wanderer~yarr
17:05.58jbotaye. yarr.
17:06.00PoeticIntensitySo..... I have a question about MySQL.
17:06.03Lone_WandererThat's lame.
17:06.10Lone_Wanderer~avast
17:06.12jbotACTION Avast, ye scurvy dogs, hoist the main sail!
17:06.15Lone_Wanderermuch better
17:06.19PoeticIntensityIt's true that Oracle owns innodb and sleepycat, right?
17:07.12PoeticIntensitymacnewbold, you seem to be hip to mysql... Do you know to what extend Oracle "owns" innodb and bdb?
17:07.21PoeticIntensityextend = extent
17:07.24herlobeandog: I don't think its a matter of legality as much as a morality debate
17:07.29herloIMHO
17:07.43PoeticIntensitypiracy?   not a question of legality?
17:07.49beandogherlo: I agree
17:07.59beandogAnd in the end, I leave the whole thing up to being a personal decision.
17:08.18beandogI've made mine, and I'm happy with it :)
17:08.23herloPoeticIntensity: nope
17:08.29thebigdoghttp://www.innodb.com/
17:08.35PoeticIntensityI was under the impression that piracy is unquestionably illegal.
17:08.46beandogarrrrrh.  I'm a piroot.
17:09.01PoeticIntensity"Copyrighted"...... that's a legal issue.
17:09.28PoeticIntensityI mean... I might be naive, but ..... hrmmm....  seems to me the be very emphatically illegal.
17:09.57PoeticIntensityYou go before a judge for having infringed copyright laws and claim "It's a moral issue, not a legal issue".... I doubt your case would be anything but laughed at.
17:09.59PoeticIntensity.....?
17:10.02herlobeandog: I have no objections to doing what you're doing.  I can't justify spending *that* kind of money on essentially avoiding commercials....
17:10.03PoeticIntensityMaybe I'm wrong.
17:10.03dataw0lf'legal media' what is dis?
17:10.20beandogherlo: It's much more than that.
17:10.46PoeticIntensitythebigdog, thanks... looking at that link now.
17:10.55beandogBelieve me, there are a whole string of reasons and rationality behind my decisions that you probably dont wnat me to get into for fear of confusing you eternally, as PoeticIntensity can attest.
17:10.59herlobeandog: I agree
17:11.07herlothat there is much more
17:11.35beandogherlo: but as far as your case goes, if that was the only reason, then I would agree, and see it as a silly reason standing alone.
17:11.48herloPoeticIntensity: It comes down to interpretation of the statutes IMHO
17:12.14PoeticIntensitywell, in legal terms, I doubt anyone's "opinion" would really matter.
17:12.22beandogThe main argument in my case though is that I cannot keep digital archives of anything or they'll be lost forever either through ignorance or negligence, and so I rely on physical media instead.
17:12.25herlobeandog: plus buying DVDs of something usually just includes other commercials I don't want to see...
17:12.26PoeticIntensitywhat you do personally is entirely up to you, but that doesn't make piracy any less illegal.
17:12.30herloPoeticIntensity: untrue
17:12.50herlothere are 9 people at the top of our Judicial system would completely disagree with you...
17:12.52PoeticIntensityhelp me understand your point, herlo .
17:13.02PoeticIntensityhehe.... okay... their opinions do matter.
17:13.07herloPoeticIntensity: :)
17:13.11PoeticIntensityhowever, they're paid and expected to "interpret" the law.
17:13.16PoeticIntensitynot "opine" on the law.
17:13.17beandogpaid by who? ;)
17:13.37herloPoeticIntensity: but who pays them?
17:13.43herlobeandog: :)
17:13.55PoeticIntensityI just get a little twitchy when people claim that piracy isn't illegal.
17:13.56herlolast I checked it was the government
17:14.05herloPoeticIntensity: it isn't piracy
17:14.13PoeticIntensitywhat isn't?
17:14.15herloits a debate
17:14.29PoeticIntensityI realize I came in half-way on this discussion...
17:14.30herlofrom PoeticIntensity:I just get a little twitchy when people claim that piracy isn't illegal.
17:14.39PoeticIntensityI just feel quite passionately about this subject.
17:14.50PoeticIntensityok.
17:14.59herloPoeticIntensity: I can tell.  I do as well
17:15.22PoeticIntensitygotcha... I'll sit and watch for a moment or two more before interrupting again.
17:15.22herloPoeticIntensity: and there is nothing wrong with a heartfelt discussion....
17:15.51herloPoeticIntensity: no worries, the legality of downloading tv/movies/etc is up for debate IMHO
17:16.31herlono person can claim its illegal when there are arguments for things like tivo or windows media center or mythtv
17:16.42herlothe model is broken, not the people...
17:16.55beandogWell, technically, I think downloading is not illegal.
17:16.58beandogImmoral, yes.
17:17.07beandogIts uploading that is illegal, since you are providing copies.
17:17.18herlothe MPAA has done some very smart things of late to fix their model, unlike what the RIAA did 8-10 years ago
17:17.32herlobeandog: a very good point...
17:17.41beandogI dont think you can justify stealing / piracy / downloading just because the industry is outmoded, though.
17:17.57herlobeandog: again, how is it stealing if someone else is giving it away?
17:18.06herloI am not stealing anything....
17:18.14herloor pirating....
17:18.18herloonly downloading...
17:18.27beandogWell youre still a party to it if someone else knowingly "stole" it.
17:18.38herlobeandog: prove that someone stole it please?
17:18.45beandogequally, prove they didn't.
17:18.52herlohow do I know they didnt?
17:18.55PoeticIntensityoh my goodness...
17:19.11beandogWell, it doesn't take common sense to realize that stuff isn't public domain.
17:19.18beandogwell, maybe it does, who knows. :)
17:19.27beandogEither way, copyright law is clear.
17:19.35herloin this country, the onus is on the prosecution to prove something illegal happened, not that something legal did
17:19.36PoeticIntensityagreed.
17:19.39beandogIf you own the rights to distribution, you can decide on the method.
17:19.53beandogand the limitations
17:19.54beandogetc.
17:19.55herlobeandog: copyright law is not and never has been clear
17:20.05PoeticIntensityhave you studied it, herlo?
17:20.09mgearyin every case i've seen, the issue is always one of *distribution*, NOT of *possession*
17:20.14herloits been misconstrued for years....
17:20.15beandogWhich is why I bring the moral argument into the matter, and let it rest on that.
17:20.22herlomgeary: thank you
17:20.26mgearybecause it's COPYright, that's disputed, not possession
17:20.54PoeticIntensityinteresting.
17:20.56herlobeandog: the morality is not up for debate, its the legality IMO
17:21.07beandogyah, I agree
17:21.14mgearyfurthermore, it's *much* easier to demonstrate that you're probably guilty of distributing, than trying to establish *where* you got all those digital files from
17:21.18beandogand I think we'll both agree that the law is jacked up in favor of industry
17:21.32herlobeandog: yep, we will agree...
17:21.48beandogMy only point is that I don't see that as leverage for justifying the gray areas.
17:21.53beandog(morally).
17:22.23herloas a protest of a broken system (laws)
17:22.38herlobut isn't convinced of this yet....
17:23.29PoeticIntensityhere's where I have a problem... and the more I think of it - it is a moral question, not a legal one...  My problem is getting "something for nothing".  I'm a musician, and I've done my fair share of creating music (or at least beandog thinks it's music)....  Thinking that someone else might get a copy of that and take the right to give it to everyone, without giving anything to me, the artist, the creator, the owner, ...... just seems *very* wrong.
17:23.30PoeticIntensity<PROTECTED>
17:23.51herloPoeticIntensity: and I am all for you getting your fair share...
17:24.23herloPoeticIntensity: I work for a book publisher of sorts.  We sell our books and at some point plan to distribute them via electronic methods...
17:24.44PoeticIntensityyeah...
17:25.05herloI know the work that goes into them...  Its gotta be similar to what goes into an album
17:25.29mgearyhas anyone here read Orson Scott Card's diatribe on the matter? it's worth reading, especially as he's a content-producer
17:25.31herloThing is, most artists/writers don't make the bulk of the money...
17:25.35beandogI think the problem we're having with copyright these days is from the fact that people *don't* have any moral issue with copying stuff freely.
17:25.44herlomgeary: I'd love to read it, where?
17:25.46beandogSo I see it as a social problem in the end.
17:25.47mgearysec
17:25.51mgearyhttp://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2003-09-07-1.html
17:26.00mgearyvery good
17:26.04herlobeandog: fair enough...which was pretty much my point in the first place...
17:26.05beandogOr don't know it's wrong (which I didn't for a very long time, either).
17:26.13PoeticIntensityya know.... herlo, I've heard that argument over and over... that it's the distributors that are getting hammered, not the artist... and I don't think that's true.
17:26.35herloPoeticIntensity: I used to have a good break down....
17:26.51herloand for the most part its true from what I can tell.  Considering
17:26.54PoeticIntensityyeah.... however.... if the dist. gets 99.9%, that means the artist still gets .01% and you're still taking that away.
17:27.07PoeticIntensitytimes that by 2 million copies.... and that's still money.
17:27.29herloConsidering the amounts though, the artist does quite a bit more than the industry.  And yes, I know marketing is expensive...
17:27.31PoeticIntensityto me, all I hear is justification from most people.
17:27.46herloPoeticIntensity: os .01% of what? $12/record?  
17:27.50beandogPoeticIntensity: agreed 100%
17:27.53PoeticIntensityno idea, man.
17:27.54herlothat's like 1.2 cents?
17:27.56PoeticIntensityI really don't know.
17:28.01PoeticIntensitynor do I care.
17:28.03PoeticIntensitytoo much.
17:28.07herlo:)
17:28.14PoeticIntensitymy point is - you're still taking money away from someone who deserves it.
17:28.38PoeticIntensity*you* (the downloader) didn't do jack to create that music, nor do they have any rights to that media.
17:29.06PoeticIntensitywrong is wrong, and it's wrong to steal from someone.
17:29.09herloPoeticIntensity: Like I said, I think its a possible protest...
17:29.21PoeticIntensityyeah.... I'm trying to keep my head on straight..
17:29.26PoeticIntensity;-)
17:29.37PoeticIntensityI just think wrong is wrong.
17:29.42herloPoeticIntensity: but the argument is whether its stealing...
17:29.56herlonot whether stealing is wrong...
17:30.04PoeticIntensityyeah.... ..... to me, you're still taking money away from someone who worked hard to do what they do.
17:30.20PoeticIntensityif I download a song from an illegal p2p network.
17:30.28PoeticIntensitythe artist doesn't get *JACK* for that download.
17:30.34herloPoeticIntensity: so my question is this to that then?
17:30.53PoeticIntensityherlo, I'm not sure I understand.
17:30.58herlolets say that 50-75 years after you recorded a song, someone downloads it for free....
17:31.07herlolike Happy Birthday
17:31.23herloand if I try to use that in public, I've gotta pay for it...
17:31.32herlobecause its under copyright...
17:31.44PoeticIntensityif you didn't create it, it's not yours to use.
17:31.48PoeticIntensitygo buy it.
17:32.03herlobut the person who originally created it isn't living to benefit from it...
17:32.11herlowho gets the money?
17:32.14PoeticIntensityI need a shovel.  I go borrow one from my neighbor.  He's had it for 50 years...  It's still his.
17:32.18herloand why?
17:32.23PoeticIntensity(gotcha)
17:32.31PoeticIntensitylemme read.... and settle down... :)
17:32.41beandogI agree, but you cant use that argument to freely copy stuff when the distributors are still alive and well.
17:32.59beandogThat is, I agree that copyright law is silly.
17:33.15herloand should you benefit from a song you created 70 years ago?  To mee a career is about 50 years or so, and there's a lot more work than what goes into *one* song in a career....
17:33.28PoeticIntensityHere's the deal...  I'm sure the system is broken.  I'm sure there are loopholes 'n' stuff all over the place. and I'm sure that the people who should be getting paid (the artist) aren't getting even close to what they deserve.
17:33.30herlobeandog: I am not arguing that it gives me the right
17:33.43beandogI know
17:33.43herloI am arguaing that it gives me cause to give me the right....
17:33.49beandogOk
17:33.56beandoga true protester. :)
17:34.21PoeticIntensitywhy in the world would studio artists continue to create music if they don't get paid to do it?  The large majority of them do it to make a living.
17:34.21herloas the law is broken, it should be fixed, and as I've said twice before, now believing it more.  Downloading for free *IS* a protest!
17:34.23beandogPersonally, I wish crappy songs from 50 years ago would go in public domain, so no one would benefit from me hearing the same songs in the grocery stores the rest of my life.
17:34.32beandogbenefit financially, that is.
17:34.33VeryHFMost music isn't held/ owned by the artist from the begining anyway.
17:34.34herlobeandog: my point
17:34.48herloVeryHF: exactly!
17:34.55beandogLong Tail economics comes into play here.
17:35.02PoeticIntensitythat doesn't mean *all* music isn't.
17:35.09beandogYoure extending copyright law to still benefit from 1% of the works
17:35.09herloVeryHF: which means you have to have corporate copyright law, which is absolutely ridiculous
17:35.17beandogwhile the other 99% nobody can touch because of the stupid industry.
17:35.23herlobeandog: they call it the Mickey Mouse law for a reason!
17:35.29beandog~lart disney
17:35.29jbotwhips out a shotgun, trudges over to disney, and goes postal
17:35.32PoeticIntensityif you do enough study and research to understand the breakdown for each song you download, that wouldn't be as bad (still wrong, IMO)...
17:35.55VeryHFI agree Dinsey and M$ are the worst.
17:36.08beandogMS has nothing on Disney when it comes to copyright.
17:36.26beandogAh well.
17:36.26herloPoeticIntensity: as i said at the beginning of this discussion, we can have an impassioned discussion and still be friends...
17:36.32VeryHFBill can aspire though...
17:36.33herlobeandog: for sure.
17:36.36beandogVeryHF: lol
17:36.39herloVeryHF: lol
17:36.41PoeticIntensityherlo, agreed.
17:36.41herloROFL
17:37.19PoeticIntensityanywho... I've gotta get back to work.
17:37.29herloPoeticIntensity: how long should a television show/album/movie be copyrighted for?  I think somewhere in the range of 14-28 years at most!
17:37.47PoeticIntensityI dunno.  I think each artist should be able to decide.
17:37.52PoeticIntensitythey created it.
17:37.57PoeticIntensitythey should control it.
17:37.57VeryHFI agree, 14.28 mark 3 years
17:38.04mgearythe artists can
17:38.12PoeticIntensitypersonally, I give all my music away freely.
17:38.15PoeticIntensitybecause I think it sucks.
17:38.16mgearyif they don't relinquish these rights to faceless corporations
17:38.16PoeticIntensity:)
17:38.26mgearythat's where the real tragedy occurs
17:38.29PoeticIntensitymgeary, you're right.
17:38.29VeryHFAaah the United Artists are just the same
17:38.34PoeticIntensityhowever, that still is the artists' decision.
17:38.49mgearyPoeticIntensity: yes, but it's not made without tremendous pressue
17:38.50PoeticIntensitythat's *THEIR* problem if they want to do that.
17:38.51mgearypressure
17:39.00PoeticIntensitystill true, however... they're not forced.
17:39.02herlomgeary: to a point they can...
17:39.22PoeticIntensitygood heavens.....  if that's true, then anything can be debated.
17:39.23beandogStardate 4853.2 ... Mickey Mouse celebrated his release into public domain today
17:39.25VeryHFWhen the artist gets more than .10 per album and CD-roms are still 10+...
17:39.43PoeticIntensityand the pubic are still buying them.
17:39.52VeryHFNot I
17:39.53wpspubic?
17:40.13PoeticIntensityit's not up to the buyer to steal something and call it "right" just because they don't agree with the breakdown of payment.
17:40.54herloPoeticIntensity: what?  I want all of my food for free because I don't want to pay!
17:40.54PoeticIntensityif CDs were really overpriced, they wouldn't sell (which is happening... and which is causing the whole itunes thing)
17:40.56beandogmacnewbold has left the building
17:40.59beandog:(
17:41.07PoeticIntensityhehe..... herlo - precisely.
17:41.22PoeticIntensitythe system is completely shoddy.  It's horrendous.
17:41.37*** join/#uphpu _psychic_ (n=_psychic@66.7.114.126)
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17:41.41PoeticIntensitybut downloading something that would otherwise give an artist a cent, is still stealing, IMO.
17:41.56mgearyPoeticIntensity: the funny thing there is--
17:42.02mgearyper my earlier comment
17:42.05herlo:)
17:42.14mgearyin such a scenario, it's the DISTRIBUTOR, not the downloader, that is charged
17:42.27PoeticIntensitycharged?
17:42.32mgearyyour wrath is arguably directed at the wrong person
17:42.35mgearycharged with a crime
17:42.36PoeticIntensityhuh?
17:42.39PoeticIntensityoh.... ummm...
17:42.42herlomgeary meant crime
17:42.57PoeticIntensitythat's just testifying that the system is broken.
17:43.08PoeticIntensitywhich we all agree is... *very* much the case.
17:43.14mgearyyou're arguing in favor of going after drug users, rather than drug pushers. Granted, a case could be made, but today it generally isn't
17:43.18mgearyand like drugs, users are often pushers
17:43.26PoeticIntensityI'm just saying that downloading illegal copies of music is wrong, and is stealing.
17:43.35mgearybut it remains the pushing, not the using, that is punishable
17:43.38PoeticIntensityI don't want to go after anyone.
17:43.40herloPoeticIntensity: I think the debate of legality comes down to proving somethings legal, not proving its not...
17:43.54PoeticIntensityI'm just saying that downloading copies of music without paying for them is wrong.
17:44.00beandogilllegal or not.
17:44.20mgeary...unless the artist is completely fine with that
17:44.22PoeticIntensitysomeone is trying to sell that music.
17:44.26PoeticIntensitymgeary, TRUE.
17:44.44PoeticIntensityif they're selling it somewhere else, and someone..... bah... you guys know exactly what I"m trying to say....
17:44.49mgearyheh
17:44.50PoeticIntensityyes, there are a million exceptions.
17:45.00mgearythat's one of the problems
17:45.04PoeticIntensitynot really.
17:45.13PoeticIntensitythat's the way people justify doing it.
17:45.23mgearyi believe this is actually just a problem of the moment
17:45.35mgearyin the not-too-distant future, distribution companies will be a thing of the past
17:45.45mgearyand artists will deal directly with their consumers
17:45.51mgearyand the lamb will lay down with the lion
17:45.58PoeticIntensityand we'll all be dead.
17:46.18PoeticIntensity:)
17:46.18PoeticIntensityer.... something.
17:46.43mgearyi haven't bought RIAA music for years.
17:46.47PoeticIntensityI just..... can't get over people's justification of stealing something that isn't theirs.... and being completely okay with it.
17:46.47PoeticIntensity(me neither)
17:46.54PoeticIntensitysounds like we're all on the same page anyway.
17:47.15mgearyi imagine so
17:47.22PoeticIntensitythe whole legality issue (a-la "broken system") is defintely in need of repair...
17:47.23wpsmgeary: eliminating the distribution companies… connecting the customer with the manufacturer… is what my company is doing. We believe that that is the future of commerce.
17:47.31mgearyyou go girl
17:47.34mgearyuh... guy
17:47.44mgearywps: where do you work?
17:47.47wpsDoba
17:47.49beandogfle market
17:47.50mgearyah
17:47.51beandogflea
17:47.52beandoggah
17:47.52beandogfail.
17:48.04mgearyi've seen the billboards. i hate that they don't say what they do
17:48.25wpssorry
17:48.30mgearynot your fault
17:48.33wpsthey are mostly for recruiting
17:48.34mgearypresumably... ;)
17:48.54wpsit is actually, I develop the concept and design the artwork for most of them
17:49.31beandog~blame copyright
17:49.32jbotACTION blames copyright (and Canada) for all the evil in the world
17:49.35beandogLets go back to the 60s!
17:49.40mgearyamen, jbot
17:49.44beandogFree love and thinking!
17:49.56wpsand STDs!
17:49.59wpswhoot!
17:50.39PoeticIntensityheh.. the funny thing is... I'm acquainted with many artists who are just *barely* making it by.
17:50.51PoeticIntensityit's those people who get me passionate about this whole thing...
17:50.57PoeticIntensitybecause *Every* CD they sell counts.
17:51.11PoeticIntensityand if their music is on some p2p network being downloaded.... it hurts them quite a bit.
17:51.39beandogYou're all crooks!
17:51.47beandog:)
17:51.47PoeticIntensity~smack beandog
17:51.49jbotACTION smacks beandog upside the head.
17:51.49beandogheh
17:52.03beandogSo uh ... what's the name of this great band, PoeticIntensity?
17:52.20PoeticIntensity~lart PoeticIntensity
17:52.20jbotdrops a truckload of VAXen on PoeticIntensity
17:52.27PoeticIntensityheh... I think you're the only person on earth who actually likes my music.
17:52.33beandogbuh :@
17:52.51beandogI'm sure there's a small dedicated group of fans building their own community in Tibet.
17:53.16PoeticIntensityTibet......
17:53.20PoeticIntensityyeah....
17:53.21beandogI gotta get a copy of your latest stuff, btw.  My CD has disappeared since the move.
17:53.33PoeticIntensityyou know where to get it.
17:53.35PoeticIntensity:)
17:53.39beandogno, not really
17:53.40beandogoh
17:53.42beandogldscompanion.org?
17:53.49PoeticIntensitythat'd be the place.
17:53.54beandog~woot
17:54.10jbotextra, extra, read all about it, woot is a way cool cat with some nice headspace, or wishes for nitwits to quit fucking up his description, or a description fascist, or a geek, or an ANU student and programmer (http://cbis.anu.edu.au/), or a crack whore
17:54.24mgearyjbot is a potty mouth
17:54.42beandog~potty jbot_
17:55.33mgearybeandog: wget is easier to batch download
17:55.34herlobeandog: regular expresssions....:)
17:55.41mgearywhat's the link?
17:55.46PoeticIntensityheh.... flashgot won't work because all the downloads aren't on the same page.
17:55.55beandogmeh.
17:56.01PoeticIntensityyou could write a bot to do it quite simply.
17:56.03PoeticIntensityyup.
17:56.16beandogI can never remember how to do them on the bash shell.
17:56.28beandogI wanna say wget foo.bar.com/[1-12].mp3
17:56.31beandogbut that didn't work last time.
17:57.48beandog92k up
17:57.49beandogyou suck.
17:57.58PoeticIntensity;-)
17:58.09PoeticIntensityit's gonna get *really* slow now, though... more people are coming in.
17:58.14beandogmgeary, herlo ... so any CLI magic?
17:58.39mgearybeandog: give me a context
17:58.44mgearypm if necessary
17:58.45beandogI did ^^
17:58.45herlobeandog: foe?
17:58.49herlofor?
17:58.53beandogbeandog I wanna say wget foo.bar.com/[1-12].mp3
17:58.54mgearyuhh
17:59.02mgearyoh
17:59.05herlobeandog: close
17:59.08beandoga replacement for seq
17:59.12beandogis it { }
17:59.35herlobeandog: no, yours should work if you are trying to match the numbers 1-9
17:59.41beandogHmm.
17:59.42beandog:T
18:00.14herlobeandog: something like
18:00.46dataw0lfuse the Python II and save yourself some trouble
18:00.58herlowget -q http://foo.bar.com/myfile[0-9]{1,2}.mp3 might match better... depending on what you are looking for
18:01.09herlo~smack dataw0lf
18:01.23jbotACTION smacks dataw0lf upside the head.
18:01.26dataw0lf~block herlo
18:01.29jbotjumps in front of herlo and prevents any more damage from being done to all the victims in the channel
18:01.29herlo~herlo dataw0lf
18:01.32jbotACTION pokes dataw0lf with a sharp needle.
18:01.34beandog~catfight
18:02.39mgearybeandog: i'm not aware of a one-liner. but i use wget to batch get every url that's listed (by line) in a text file
18:02.48mgearywget -i somefile.txt
18:02.55mgearywhere somefile has 10 lines, one URL per line
18:03.10mgearyso it may not apply for your situation
18:04.18beandogfor x in `seq 1 17`; do wget -c http://ldscompanion.org/music/$x.mp3; done;
18:04.20beandogthat's my cheap method.
18:05.38PoeticIntensityit's holding up....
18:05.53PoeticIntensitythough the d/ls are probably gonna get ridiculously slow.
18:06.04beandogso far so good.
18:08.04timinatoranyone have a copy of Mac OS 10.3 lying around?
18:08.17timinatorI own a copy, but can't find the install disks
18:08.26herloPoeticIntensity: I can't find the link you mentioned...
18:08.40mgearytiminator: i do
18:08.41PoeticIntensityherlo, not sure I ever mentioned a link.....
18:08.45timinatorI have EVERYTHING else..... original box, stickers, manual.... etc
18:08.47mgearybut i'm in Orem
18:08.53PoeticIntensityherlo, to my site?
18:08.56PoeticIntensityherlo, music?
18:09.00timinatordang
18:09.04PoeticIntensityherlo, believe me... you don't wanna hear it.
18:09.09PoeticIntensityI wrote / recorded it a LONG time ago.
18:09.13beandogdont listen to him
18:09.14timinatorcan you make an iso and put it on my server?
18:09.14beandogits great stuff.
18:09.14PoeticIntensitywww.enzign.com is better.
18:09.59mgearytiminator: ugh. it's huuuge
18:10.09timinatorso is my server
18:10.11timinator:)
18:10.17mgearyheh
18:10.38timinatorPM
18:11.41herloPoeticIntensity: yes
18:11.45herloPoeticIntensity: yes I do
18:12.10PoeticIntensityokay... if you're gonna listen, it deserves a little bit of a forewarning.
18:12.31PoeticIntensityall of my poeticintensity stuff was done about 5 years ago.
18:12.31herloPoeticIntensity: it won't be until this evening
18:12.47PoeticIntensityvery weird music meant only to be understood by me and a couple of close friends.
18:12.55PoeticIntensityenzign.com is a band I was a member of.
18:13.00PoeticIntensitythat stuff is much, much cooler.
18:13.22PoeticIntensityall of it is free.
18:13.34PoeticIntensityand feel free to distribute it to whomever you wish.
18:15.22herloPoeticIntensity: I'm there...
18:15.28herlothanx
18:15.35herloPoeticIntensity: which one are you?
18:15.57PoeticIntensityI'm the drummer.
18:16.14herloPoeticIntensity: nice!
18:16.35PoeticIntensityherlo, thanks.  It was a fun time playing with those guys...
18:16.43PoeticIntensityit's all over and done now, but I won't let the site die.
18:17.33mgeary..... ;)
18:17.57mgearyoh c'mon
18:18.03mgearyit was worth a chuckle, at least
18:18.14PoeticIntensityI recorded *all* of it.
18:18.17PoeticIntensitymixed it.
18:18.19PoeticIntensityworked it.
18:18.20PoeticIntensityetc...
18:18.21PoeticIntensityit's mine.
18:18.22PoeticIntensity:)
18:18.43PoeticIntensityI'm the producer, director, financer, etc....
18:18.48PoeticIntensityI also host the site.
18:19.09mgearyah, so the truth comes out. PoeticIntensity is actually a music DISTRIBUTOR. He's the enemy
18:19.17PoeticIntensitybingo.
18:19.32mgearyprobably made those other band members sign "work for hire" contracts
18:19.49PoeticIntensitywithout a doubt.
18:19.54PoeticIntensitythey're really all dead now.
18:19.55mgearynow lemme get my tongue out of my cheek and get back to work
18:19.57PoeticIntensityI killed them all.
18:20.07PoeticIntensityso they wouldn't distribute MY MUSIC!!!!!
18:20.13PoeticIntensityLOL
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18:39.55Lone_WandererPI - do you produce music?
18:40.21xilch|wI produce oders
18:40.54Lone_WandererI know a girl who plays the guitar and sings and she's pretty good.  At least, I like it.  She might be interested in getting access to a recording studio for a few hours if the price were reasonable.
18:42.01dataw0lfLone_Wanderer: try dilvie when he's around in #utah
18:42.41Lone_Wandererk
18:43.36herloPoeticIntensity: I like this from the article from Orson Scott Card that mgeary provided:
18:43.39herlo<PROTECTED>
18:47.28Lone_WandererCan someone take a look at http://dev.codegreene.com/sm/specials.php and tell me how to get the "active" on the left to be a different color?
18:51.34*** join/#uphpu jsmith_ (n=jsmith@000-168-745.area3.spcsdns.net)
18:53.53timinatorshould be:   #submenu ul li a .active { color:#FFF; }
18:54.26timinator(but I'm no CSS guru)
18:54.29timinator:)
18:54.45Lone_WandererActually it should be a.active with no space
18:55.05Lone_Wandererbecause a .active (with a space) means "an entity that has the class "active" and is a child of an a element"
18:56.09timinatoroh, right
19:00.46*** part/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@c-67-182-239-240.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
19:09.30dataw0lfor a:active
19:15.23herloanother quote:
19:15.27herlo<PROTECTED>
19:15.51mgearyit's a good article, eh? :)
19:17.14herlomgeary: yes, I don't agree with everything.  I like most of his opinions, however
19:18.41herlomgeary: I can see some of his religion come out, at times its quite obvious
19:19.16mgearyhe's never been fuzzy about that, but i think he makes a clear-headed, reasoned case
19:20.11xilch|wurl?
19:20.20dataw0lfwell, Card is a pretty bright guy.
19:20.22xilch|wI did a quick read up, but didn't see a link
19:20.32dataw0lfmeaning he's a Democrat.
19:20.39mgearyhttp://www.ornery.org/essays/warwatch/2003-09-07-1.html
19:21.10mgearyi also agree with his current article, unfortunately
19:21.11mgearyhttp://www.ornery.org/index.html
19:22.33herlomgeary: I didn't say that I didn't respect his views, I just might not share them...
19:22.41herlodataw0lf: agreed, he is
19:22.41mgearyyeah, i hear ya
19:23.04herlodataw0lf: :)
19:24.29dataw0lfhe's still a bit too LDS politically on some issues for me (pre-marital sex, homosexuality, Iraqi War in some instances), but, hey, it's always refreshing to see a liberal LDS person.  I think it speaks volumes about a person.
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19:52.16_psychic_anyone have a good script that removes or coverts weird MS Word characters?
19:52.32_psychic_(like when people compose something in Word and paste it in a textarea)
19:54.42mgearyi do
19:54.57mgearybut i have since decided it's much easier to set the charset to UTF-8
19:55.13mgearyhave you tried that?
19:59.45_psychic_I don't think I can just yet
19:59.53mgeary?
20:00.01_psychic_Don't have time to test it site wide
20:00.28mindjujui have tried using UTF-8 from a server level, but it seems like we still have issues
20:00.30mgearyin my experience UTF-8 is backwards-compatible with everything i've ever thrown at it
20:00.32mindjujuon the browser side
20:00.41mgearyhuh. i'd like to hear about them, mindjuju
20:00.45mgearyif you can ever reproduce something
20:00.51_psychic_this is for emails
20:00.51mindjujui'm trying to remember them
20:01.10mgeary_psychic_: ah, that does change the playing field a bit
20:01.17_psychic_yeah...
20:02.00mgearyso this is in internal thing? you don't need to clean up anonymous end-user input, but rather something you were sent by a colleague?
20:02.32mgeary'cause i believe TextMate has a command, and i know that BBedit does, to "Ascii-ify" text, as well as converting things to HTML entities
20:02.50mgearydepending on whether you want « to go to " or not
20:02.56mgeary» i mean
20:02.58mgearydang it
20:03.04mgeary”
20:03.05mgearythere we go
20:03.09mgearycurly quotes
20:03.23mindjujuyeah, i hate those darn things
20:03.24_psychic_hm
20:03.30_psychic_ok
20:03.31mindjujuand the -- mdash
20:03.51mgearyi'm just asking because my script seems to work well, but it's messy enough that i've never really liked it, and don't want to support it ;)
20:04.02mindjujuexactly
20:04.08mindjujuthat's where i got caught too
20:04.27mgearyyou never know what some bozo's going to throw at it
20:04.28mindjujuwriting an app to handle, all kinds of little bugs kept popping up
20:04.57mgearyyeah, and in my experience if ONE thing slips through, it screws up the output and compounds the issue with EVERY subsequent save :(
20:05.15mindjujuah, what a terrible memory
20:05.18mgearyoh yes
20:06.08mindjuju_psychic_
20:06.35mindjujui can tell you the direction to go if you want a solution, but it only works for internal
20:06.58Lone_Wanderermgeary: you use bbedit?
20:07.00mindjujuwhen i was researching it, i found the only person who knew reliably when mdash or curly quotes or ... , was MS Word
20:07.05Lone_WandererOhh, I'm on a Mac now, I should download it and give it a try.
20:07.30mindjujuthat said, you can write a plugin for MS word, that converts to standard and Posts
20:07.32mgearyLone_Wanderer: i love BBedit, but i'm a recent TextMate adopter
20:07.40Lone_WandererNooooo
20:07.45Lone_WandererNow I'll never know which one to adopt!
20:07.48Lone_Wandereris bbedit free?
20:07.49mgearyhahaha
20:07.53mgearyTextWrangler is
20:08.01mgearythat's BBedit lite, basically. still quite good
20:08.05mindjujuwhich as it turns out, isn't actually very original, cause that is how WordPress gets around it, if I recall
20:08.08mgearybbedit is not free
20:08.15Lone_WandererI did not ask about your TextWrangler.  Away with you!
20:08.27mgearyTextWrangler ~= BBedit
20:08.33mgearyboth by BareBones
20:08.35Lone_WandererOh.
20:08.38Lone_WandererI just wanted to be contrary.
20:08.46mgearymission accomplished ;)
20:08.52Lone_WandererYay!
20:09.02mgearyi can give you pro's and con's, if you'd like, between TM and BB
20:09.17mgearyi've used BB for 8 years
20:09.23Lone_WandererEh.
20:09.28Lone_WandererI'm using aquamacs now.  It gets the job done.
20:09.42mgearywhatever, dude
20:09.49mgeary:]
20:10.15Lone_WandererWell, if bbedit was free, I'd give it a try.
20:10.27mgearythere's a trial version that unlocks
20:10.29Lone_WandererBut I remembered, as I went to poke around their page, that I'm in the middle of something
20:10.39Lone_Wandererso I don't want to bother downloading, installing, etc. it
20:10.48Lone_WandererI will tomorrow morning.
20:11.37wpsI'm eating a 9.5 ounce box of Hot Tamales for lunch (that's "the big box"). I am going to be really hopped up here in an hour or two and crashing with quite a stomach ache come dinner time.
20:11.47Lone_WandererThe candy?
20:11.53mgearythose things are addictive
20:11.54wpsyessir
20:11.56Lone_WandererWow.
20:11.59wpsvery
20:12.09Lone_WandererI don't think I could eat a normal box.
20:13.32wpsI pretty much have no self control when it comes to Hot Tamales and Red Vines
20:13.45Lone_WandererI think I'd get sick, I mean.
20:13.51wpsoh… I do
20:13.53wps:)
20:13.55Lone_Wandererlol
20:14.02Lone_WandererBut it's SOO GOOD that you just can't help yourself?
20:14.04mgearywps: you must be a party at the movie theater
20:14.35wpsjbot, dance
20:14.45jbotACTION does a pole dance with the Peekabo Pole Dance Kit
20:14.53wpseek
20:14.56wpsnot that kind of dance
20:15.00mindjujugreat job wps
20:15.00wpsjbot, do a dance
20:15.07jbotACTION does a dance.
20:15.07mindjujuthat's just what i wanted to see
20:15.11mindjuju:)
20:15.16wpsweak
20:15.19wpscome on, jbot
20:15.25wpsjbot, do a dance
20:15.26jbotACTION does a dance.
20:15.30wpsjbot, dance
20:15.32jbotACTION does a pole dance with the Peekabo Pole Dance Kit
20:15.35wpshmm
20:15.41wpswhat happened to his mad disco skills?
20:15.46mgearyjbot, do a 15-foot pole vault
20:15.48jbotACTION does a 15-foot pole vault.
20:15.53Lone_WandererI have a friend who knows a guy who works at a strip club.
20:15.56Lone_WandererShe wants me to move in with him.
20:16.07wpsuh…
20:16.14Lone_WandererShe says he's friends with all the strippers and they come home with him all the time.
20:16.25Lone_Wandererjbot's pole dance just reminded me of that.
20:16.35mgeary~disco
20:16.37jbotburn, baby, burn
20:16.43mgeary~groove
20:16.44jbotrumour has it, groove is mojo, or is in the heart
20:16.48wpsthat thought of jbot pole dancing makes me want to vomit
20:16.55wps~bubbles
20:16.56jbothmm... bubbles is michael jackson's monkey
20:17.20wpssorry… have to through that one in every once in and a while
20:18.34mgearythrow?
20:18.44wpss/through/throw/
20:19.36wpsI type with the accuracy of a cheese grater holding water
20:20.17Lone_WandererWhat does whether it's wet have to do with how accurate the grater is? ;)
20:24.40wpsuh… the cheese slips
20:24.55*** join/#uphpu fungus (n=fungus@mailhub.sosstaffing.com)
20:24.58Lone_WandererWe cannot allow a cheese slice gap!
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20:25.11mindjujuoh wow
20:25.22Lone_Wanderers/cheese slice/mine shaft/
20:25.25mindjujuwhat some people will do to get an "epic mount" in WoW
20:25.31Lone_Wanderer?
20:25.37mindjujuhttp://epicslut.ytmnd.com/
20:25.41Lone_WandererI've got one.  I just did a LOT of gold farming.
20:25.42Lone_WandererSFW?
20:25.55mindjujueh, no pictures, but let's say she sold her self
20:26.24Lone_WandererThat's gross.
20:26.30mindjujuyeah
20:26.50Lone_WandererUnless she's a night elf.  Then it's tewtally hawt!
20:27.03mindjujushe did say she was a night elf
20:27.07mindjujulevel 70
20:27.11Lone_WandererWell there you go then.
20:27.18Lone_WandererEpic flying mount?
20:28.21mindjujui've never seen a night elf
20:28.22Lone_WandererOr just an epic mount?
20:28.22mindjujuepic flying mount
20:28.22Lone_Wanderer'cause epic flying mounts are like 5k gold.
20:28.22Lone_WandererWhich is unreasonably expensive.
20:28.22mindjujuyup, that's the amount the article says
20:28.22mindjujuwell, this dude, up and paid the price for a "visit"
20:28.24mindjujuand she now has said mount
20:28.25Lone_WandererOn a good day you can make 100 gold, if you just do mindless gold farming.
20:29.29Lone_WandererSo wait
20:29.29Lone_Wanderershe literally, in real life, sold herself?
20:29.29wps~lart mindjuju
20:29.30jbotpushes the wall down onto mindjuju whilst whistling innocently
20:29.30Lone_WandererNot like, just on a webcam or something?
20:29.31wpsmindjuju: you need to warn people about links with sound like that
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20:29.31mindjujuoh, my comp speakers are off, didn't know
20:29.32wps:)
20:29.32mindjujuLone_Wanderer , i'm not sure if it was real life or not
20:29.41mindjujui've never played WoW so don't know if those "features" are programmed in
20:29.48wpsha ha ha
20:29.50wpsfunny news
20:30.09wps"two BYU football players arrested after water balloon altercation"
20:30.12Lone_WandererDude, she's not even cute.
20:30.33Lone_WandererAnd yeah, it sounds like she did it in real life.
20:30.34mindjujuwater balloon altercation?
20:30.57mindjujuoh, it seemed like it might have been real life, but...
20:30.57wpsso, dude… what're you in for? aggravated assault? murder?
20:31.16Lone_WandererNah, I threw a water balloon at a professor.
20:38.39*** join/#uphpu jbot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
20:38.39*** topic/#uphpu is Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org
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20:39.11Lone_WandererAmmonia - denaturing proteins since 8 million B.C.
20:39.52beandogdenaturing?
20:40.04Lone_WandererYeah.
20:40.08Lone_WandererLike, taking them apart.
20:40.14beandogI wonder if my Captain N DVDs showed up yet
20:40.24Lone_WandererTo induce structural alterations that disrupt the biological activity of a molecule. Often refers to breaking hydrogen bonds between base pairs in a double-stranded nucleic acid molecules to produce in single-stranded polynucleotides, or altering the secondary and tertiary structure of a protein, destroying its activity.
20:41.30Lone_WandererHmm, apparently you can denature other things (like alcohol and radioactive material).
20:41.41Lone_WandererIt just means to make it unfit for whatever you were going to use it for.
20:42.16Lone_WandererDenatured alcohol = you can't get drunk with it, but you can still use it to sanitize surfaces, for example.
20:43.19*** part/#uphpu breece (n=breece@67.108.236.230.ptr.us.xo.net)
20:45.37Lone_WandererI think grain alcohol has to be denatured.  Otherwise it has to be taxed as "recreational alcohol" when you sell it, even if you're only going to use it for non-recreational purposes.
20:45.47Lone_Wanderer(Although that didn't stop the grad students in the lab I worked in.)
20:51.44*** join/#uphpu wps (n=wps@67.108.236.230.ptr.us.xo.net)
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20:52.52*** part/#uphpu mindjuju (n=mindjuju@65-121-75-195.dia.static.qwest.net)
21:03.16Lone_Wandererwps: A little bird told me that you are wise in the ways of IE CSS fixing.
21:03.18Lone_WandererIs this true?
21:03.43wpsit is
21:04.03Lone_WandererWhat tribute do you require to work your magic on a page for me?
21:04.33wpsdepends on what it is… if you just have a question, I am more then happy to help
21:04.57wpsif you have a project that you are wanting me for, they we'll have to talk… I'm a little booked at the moment (new few weeks)
21:05.06Lone_WandererIt's just one page.
21:05.13Lone_WandererThat just has one weird thing on it as far as I can see.
21:05.29wpsURL?
21:05.38Lone_Wandererhttp://dev.codegreene.com/sm/index.php
21:05.43Lone_Wandererthe menu bar is what's broken.
21:05.56Lone_WandererSomeone's working on it right now, maybe you should wait 'till he's done.  He might fix it.
21:06.12wpsk… shout at me when he's done
21:06.19Lone_Wandererk
21:09.44beandogmysql--
21:09.50beandogwhere oh where have subselects gone?
21:09.52Lone_Wanderermysql--
21:09.59Lone_Wandererpostgresql++
21:10.01Lone_Wanderer~karma mysql
21:10.01jbotmysql has neutral karma
21:10.08Lone_WandererWhy do my --'s not work?
21:10.18beandog~karma postgresql
21:10.18jbotpostgresql has neutral karma
21:10.21beandogmeh.
21:10.33Lone_Wanderer~karma Lone_Wanderer
21:10.33jbotlone_wanderer has karma of 1
21:11.45Lone_WandererWhere does karma come from, jbot?
21:11.55beandogI think it might only work on users.
21:12.06Lone_WandererI know where magic comes from (dragons, thanks to Eragon)
21:12.06beandog~karma mindjuju
21:12.06jbotmindjuju has neutral karma
21:12.15beandogmindjuju++
21:12.16Lone_Wanderermindjuju++
21:12.18beandog~karma mindjuju
21:12.18jbotmindjuju has neutral karma
21:12.25beandogLone_Wanderer++
21:12.26Lone_Wandererlart jbot
21:12.28beandog~karma Lone_Wanderer
21:12.28jbotlone_wanderer has karma of 1
21:12.29Lone_Wanderer-lart jbot
21:23.27mgearybeandog: what do you mean? your sub-selects not working?
21:23.40beandogno, this version doesnt support them.
21:23.43mgearyahh
21:23.45Lone_Wandererwps: looks like he fixed it :)
21:23.48mgearyyeah, that'll get ya
21:24.23mgearyPHP5 and MySQL5 are dealbreaker requirements on every job i start
21:24.38mgearyit's just too painful to work with anything less. Well, i can deal with MySQL 4.2+
21:24.56Lone_WandererYou won't work with less than versions 5 of both of them, mgeary?
21:25.15mgearywell, per the above comment, i will do MySQL 4.2. but PHP4 is right  out
21:25.26mgearyi've made way too much benefit of the OOP features of PHP5
21:25.27wpscool, Lone_Wanderer
21:28.25mgearyspeaking of OOP, i'm curious if anyone here has made much use of the __destroy() method. Where a given object generally only has the lifespan of a single page load, i have to be creative to find much use in __destroy. not that i don't like having it. i'm just wondering if there's a cool, oft-used aspect that i'm overlooking.
21:28.57beandogclose your db connection
21:29.02beandogfree up sessions, etc
21:29.13beandogI havent found use for it either yet.
21:29.30Lone_Wanderer$_SESSION
21:29.54mgearyLone_Wanderer: ?
21:30.07Lone_WandererThings in $_SESSION last beyond a page load
21:30.18Lone_Wandererand you could conceivably want to do things with them before they get nuked
21:30.24beandogyah, that was a poo rexample.
21:30.24mgearynot objects, technically speaking. they need to be reserialized
21:30.52beandogmgeary: pm?
21:30.52Lone_Wanderer__destroy is to do things with an object before it gets destroyed though, right?
21:31.02mgearyyeah
21:31.23Lone_WandererRight.  So say you create a shopping cart and you want to make sure that the data in it doesn't get lost when the user logs out.
21:32.29mgearyhmm. interesting notion. but would the __destroy() get called when the session is about to be cleaned out? Or are you talking about putting this as part of the logout process?
21:32.53Lone_WandererEither way.
21:33.20Lone_WandererPoint is that whenever the cart gets nuked, you want to make sure and save their stuff if they haven't checked out or emptied it.
21:33.27mgearyyeah, point taken
21:47.14beandogmy gosh that's a beastie little thing.
21:47.16beandogthanks mgeary
21:47.25mgeary:)
21:47.28beandog~smack mysql
21:47.30jbotACTION smacks mysql upside the head.
21:47.46beandogholy crap its almost 4p
21:48.05beandogthose mind-altering recreation drugs sure do make the time pass quickly.
21:48.27Lone_WandererDude, what are you high on?
21:48.37Lone_WandererAnd why aren't you sharing?
21:48.41beandoglove, brother.  nothing but love.
21:48.53beandogyou can imagine why I won't share.
21:49.04Lone_WandererYeah, you don't want me to steal all the girls ;)
21:49.11beandogheh
21:49.26beandogamazingly enough, Ive also been listening to the same album all day and havent gotten sick of it yet.
21:49.35Lone_Wanderercool
21:49.49mgearyyeah, Amy Grant is like that, eh?
21:49.51mgeary;)
21:49.54beandogbuh :@
21:50.15Lone_WandererDude, that's just low :p
21:50.49mgearybut you young punks probably don't even know that name
21:55.34dataw0lfI know I ain't listening to it
22:08.31Lone_WandererDude, everyone's doing it.
22:08.39Lone_WandererCheck out mgeary, he got a GOOD one.
22:09.10Lone_WandererDude's dreaming of the Goddess now, man!
22:09.38PoeticIntensitywhat version of MySQL are you using beandog ?
22:09.47beandog4.crap
22:09.50PoeticIntensityah.
22:09.56PoeticIntensityROFL
22:09.56beandog:)
22:10.15beandog4.0.x
22:10.32beandogwerdos.
22:10.34beandoger.
22:10.34beandogyah.
22:10.35beandogfail.
22:12.12Lone_Wandererdataw0lf: Who is Lauren M? >.>
22:12.14PoeticIntensityyeah... I Don't know what I'd do without subselects.
22:12.27PoeticIntensityI've gotten into some pretty hairy queries.
22:12.40beandogpuby ones?
22:12.53Lone_WandererIsn't "hairy query" a ritual method of suicide? :p
22:18.42mgeary"keep your dang love to yerself, ya bum"
22:18.46Lone_Wanderer:'(
22:19.12beandogwhy is my internet slow?
22:19.28beandogfix it!
22:20.19Lone_WandererSorry, downloading... "content".
22:20.34beandogoh.
22:20.39beandogwell that's okay.
22:28.40PoeticIntensityheh.... "content".
22:29.23PoeticIntensitySQL question:
22:29.53PoeticIntensity"transactions" means (in essence) nothing more than surrounding your queries with the appropriate "begin transaction" and "commit" (etc) tags.....
22:30.11PoeticIntensitykicks.
22:30.21mgearyis that your question?
22:30.22PoeticIntensityer ..... gives him a swirlie or something.
22:30.23beandogyah
22:30.23beandogso
22:30.24PoeticIntensityyes.
22:30.33PoeticIntensityI've never used em' before.
22:30.37beandogoh
22:30.37mgearythat's a bit of an understatement
22:30.44PoeticIntensity"in essence"
22:31.04beandogwell, no thats not all there is to it.
22:31.12PoeticIntensityI'm just having to wrap my head around it....
22:31.14beandogtransactions can be halted, rolled back
22:31.18PoeticIntensityyes.
22:31.19beandogand theyre supah fast.
22:31.23PoeticIntensityright.
22:31.26mgearytransactions allow you to group sql statements in a cancel-able block, so that if anything fails, the whole thing can be recalled
22:31.35beandogright
22:31.39PoeticIntensitybingo.
22:31.43beandogso if 1 of 1000 queries die, they all die.
22:31.47beandoger, cancel.
22:31.50beandogmgeary said it best.
22:31.54thebigdogrollback
22:31.55PoeticIntensityand that's done by basically encapsulating them inside certain sql statements (such as "commit")
22:31.56mgearyaww
22:32.06PoeticIntensityright?
22:32.16PoeticIntensityjust seems like too easy....
22:32.17beandogBEGIN TRANSACTION; UPDATE foo SET bar; (x1,852) commit;
22:32.19PoeticIntensity..................?
22:32.27PoeticIntensityright.
22:32.37Lone_Wanderer(I didn't like how that whole middle east thing was turning out.)
22:32.41beandogits BEGIN or START
22:32.42PoeticIntensityinteresting...
22:32.46PoeticIntensitylooks like it really is that easy.
22:32.47beandogmy/pg/mssql all have it different.
22:32.57PoeticIntensityI suppose that putting them in the right places is pretty crucial.
22:33.08beandogjust make sure each statement has a closing ;
22:33.19PoeticIntensitythe more I learn about transactions, the more I realize how much at risk of corrupting my systems are. :)
22:33.22thebigdogtransactions are great
22:33.23Lone_WandererThe time is now 4:30.
22:34.23beandogyahppers.
22:34.23beandogatomic commits
22:34.23beandogwell, thats slightly unrelated, but wahtever.
22:34.23PoeticIntensityyup.
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22:34.23PoeticIntensitythanks... just wanted to ask the ethereal gathering of the best minds on earth.
22:34.42mgearyso, go ask 'em
22:34.47PoeticIntensityI knew that was comin'.
22:34.48_psychic_I'm here so that no longer is the case.
22:34.49PoeticIntensity:-D
22:36.47beandogooh now that is funky.
22:36.54beandogyou can set a checkbox's width with CSS
22:37.20Lone_Wanderercool
22:37.59mgearywhat'd be cooler is if you could set a checkbox's on- and off-state images via css
22:43.00Lone_WandererI bet you could with js.
22:43.35thebigdogyou could
22:43.38Lone_WandererAhh.
22:43.51Lone_WandererUse an image instead of a checkbox, and then use js to change the image when it's checked or unchecked.
22:44.28mgearywell yeah
22:45.33mgearyjust saying it'd be cool if css could do that
22:46.35beandoghmm
22:46.42beandogI wonder if theres a website of just crazy missionary stories.
22:57.21Lone_WandererYou should start one.
22:57.34mgearywell, that's arguable
22:57.38Lone_WandererOhTheApostasy.com
22:58.11_psychic_I'm not sure I even like to hear my *own* mission stories.
22:58.16Lone_WandererAnd by "no longer away" I mean "going away".
23:17.02Lone_WandererYou know, someone should just write an extension to the for loop that lets you write for ($foo) {
23:17.27Lone_Wandererand it'll interpret it to be for ($i = 0; $i < $foo; $i++) {
23:22.38beandogI wish php had an in() function.
23:22.42beandogthat would be handy.
23:23.15beandogalthough Im not sure how it'd work.
23:26.34Lone_WandererWhat would an in() function do?
23:28.29beandogreplace something like if($foo == $x || $foo == $y || $foo == $z);
23:28.48mgearyyou mean, like in_array() ?
23:28.51beandogevery time I think of a way to do it, it'd just be faster to use in_array
23:28.58beandogbut youd have to create an array of the options.
23:29.21beandoganyway.  whatever.
23:29.38Lone_WandererJust make an inline array.
23:30.02Lone_Wandererif in_array(foo, array($this, $that, $the_other))
23:30.07Lone_WandererOr... something.
23:30.18beandogright
23:30.35mgearynow what'd be nice is if you didn't have to use "array()", but could just do [$a,b,c...]
23:30.40beandogexactly.
23:31.09PoeticIntensityhuh?
23:31.14PoeticIntensityYou mean your PHP doesn't read your mind?
23:31.18Lone_WandererYeah that'd be cool.
23:31.18beandogif in($foo, $x, $y, $z);
23:31.25Lone_WandererIt reads my mind, PI.  Via my fingers.
23:31.36PoeticIntensitymy script is nothing more than <?php read_mind("jason"); ?>
23:31.38PoeticIntensityand that's that.
23:31.41PoeticIntensityworks for *everything*
23:31.58Lone_WandererWhat if you're asleep while someone tries to access your page?
23:31.58PoeticIntensityyou guys really should learn how to code.
23:32.04Lone_WandererDo they get crazy dream code?
23:32.15PoeticIntensitylet's not talk about that.
23:32.18PoeticIntensity:)
23:32.30Lone_WandererEven worse would be while you're kissing your girlfriend.
23:32.34PoeticIntensityROFL
23:32.41PoeticIntensityI'm pretty sure that'd get the hits.
23:32.49PoeticIntensityfor morbidity, if anything.
23:32.54PoeticIntensityshock value.
23:32.56Lone_WandererAssuming your GF is hot.
23:35.07beandogGAJ
23:35.08beandoga;slkdjfasd;lf
23:35.10beandogmysql--
23:35.14*** part/#uphpu mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49)
23:35.16beandogactually this one is php's fault.
23:38.13beandogsilly mysql_query won't let you run more than one statement at a time.
23:38.21beandog~blame mysql anyway
23:38.23jbotACTION blames mysql anyway (and Canada) for all the evil in the world
23:40.35PoeticIntensitybeandog, you've already realized that...
23:40.37PoeticIntensitylike.... 5 times.
23:40.41beandogI forgot.
23:40.43PoeticIntensitythat's a GOOD thing.
23:40.45PoeticIntensity;-)
23:40.45beandogand this was the 2nd time.
23:40.49beandogno, its not a good thing.
23:40.50PoeticIntensityyes it is.
23:40.57PoeticIntensityLOL
23:41.01PoeticIntensityjust kiddin' man...
23:41.05beandogoh
23:41.07PoeticIntensityit's tough learning new crud.
23:41.07beandogdarn it.
23:41.10PoeticIntensitytoo late.
23:41.12PoeticIntensity*splat*
23:41.16beandogLOL
23:41.23beandogahh, friendship.
23:42.36beandogdarnit, that was easier than I thought.
23:42.43beandog~lart maturity
23:42.43jbotbeats maturity into protomatter with the andromeda galaxy
23:42.48beandogmmmm
23:53.11PoeticIntensityshould I go home?
23:53.55beandogheh
23:54.06PoeticIntensityit's 6:00....
23:54.11beandogPoeticIntensity: man  you missed it today
23:54.11PoeticIntensityso... technically, I should be able to go home.
23:54.14PoeticIntensityI did?
23:54.16beandogI pulled up to two red lights by myself
23:54.20beandogand you were just one car behind me.
23:54.20PoeticIntensityon your way home?
23:54.21beandogya jerk.
23:54.24beandogon the way back here
23:54.32PoeticIntensityserious?
23:54.35PoeticIntensityI didn't see ya?
23:54.37beandogyes, didnt you see me?
23:54.38PoeticIntensitybah.
23:54.38beandoggah
23:54.40beandogya goon.
23:54.48PoeticIntensityI was right behind you!?
23:54.51PoeticIntensityno...
23:54.55beandogI was in the right land
23:54.55PoeticIntensitynooooo no no no.
23:54.57beandogyou were in the left
23:55.00PoeticIntensityoh.
23:55.01beandoger, lane
23:55.06PoeticIntensitycrappy, man!
23:55.11beandogpoopalicious.
23:55.30PoeticIntensityI was lookin' for ya too.
23:55.37PoeticIntensityweeeeeeeeeeeeeird.
23:55.40beandogoh well.
23:55.44beandogit just wasn't meant to be.
23:55.54PoeticIntensityyupr.
23:55.59PoeticIntensityyuppppppppppppppper.
23:56.04PoeticIntensitybah... bah bah bha.
23:56.06PoeticIntensitybah
23:56.12beandogkinda like Cinnamon Toast Crunch with OJ.
23:56.19beandogno mixie.
23:56.23PoeticIntensityyeah.
23:56.26PoeticIntensitydefinitely.

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