irclog2html for #uphpu on 20070319

00:43.29*** join/#uphpu mgeary (n=mgeary@72.8.89.23)
00:43.33mgearyoy
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03:26.50*** topic/#UPHPU by wps -> meetings scheduled now through July… keep 'em coming!
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14:38.58dataw0lfheh, someone patented the linked list
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14:51.41brastowps, did you get my email response yet?
14:53.51wpsjust did
14:54.24brastoI must have deleted Cole's email's - did he want April?
14:55.44wpshe didn't say that he _wanted_ April, per se, but said that he could do April
14:55.52wpsif you would rather him present now, I can put you in for July
14:58.13dataw0lfhttp://ctlocalpolitics.net/2007/03/16/rep-mike-lawlor-voluntarily-tasered/'
14:58.19dataw0lf-'
14:58.22dataw0lfthat dude is awesome
14:58.26dataw0lfI'd vote for him
14:59.17brastoSo people have taken May and June?
15:01.43wpsyes
15:02.03wpsMay: Dojo by Victor
15:02.16wpsJune: SOWA by Boguslaw Gil
15:02.32wpsApril: you or Cole
15:02.46wpsJuly: you or Cole (whichever doesn't take April)
15:02.59brastook, does anyone know Cole's IRC name, AIM name, or other IM?
15:03.09wpsI only have his email
15:03.23*** topic/#UPHPU by wps -> Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org
15:04.54timinatormorning guys.
15:05.30timinatorhappy birthday to me, happy birthday to me, happy birthday to the timinator, happy birthday to me
15:05.55macnewbold~celebrate timinator's birthday
15:06.02*** join/#uphpu thebigdog (n=bigdog@208.177.146.102.ptr.us.xo.net)
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15:06.09dataw0lfhappy birfday tim
15:06.18timinatorty
15:08.27*** join/#uphpu Utah_Dav1 (n=boucha@c-67-182-239-240.hsd1.ut.comcast.net)
15:09.07brasto~elb
15:09.24brasto~lart elb
15:09.57brasto~rlart elb
15:11.37brastoelb is in #gaim
15:12.59macnewboldI've never seen Cole J. on IRC
15:14.37brastohappy birthday timinator
15:14.47brastook, thanks macnewbold
15:15.05brastoi suppose he meant that he uses gaim, not that he frequents #gaim
15:16.11brasto~lart elb
15:16.18brastook, that's better
15:17.11brastonote to elb - I'll usefully contribute the full height scsi disk :)
15:17.19brastook, i'm done ranting now
15:17.30thebigdogwho are you ranting about?
15:17.45brastoelb on #gaim
15:17.49thebigdoglol
15:18.40*** join/#uphpu Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@cg.dsl.xmission.com)
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15:19.11brastodoes jbot do that every time Lone_Wanderer joins the channel?
15:19.25macnewboldyes
15:19.28macnewbold~yarr
15:19.29jbotaye. yarr.
15:19.35brastolol
15:19.38macnewbold~yow
15:20.16*** join/#uphpu PoeticIntensity (n=jason@70.96.176.13)
15:20.21brastoquadrophonic? 4 phones? 4 tones/sounds?
15:20.24PoeticIntensitymornin' all.
15:20.29Lone_WandererHe's so filled with piratey goodness that he just can't help but let out a "Yarr!"
15:20.32brasto~quadrophonic
15:20.38PoeticIntensityquadrophonic is stereo times two.
15:20.50Lone_WandererIt's stereo SQUARED.
15:21.00PoeticIntensitynuh-uh!
15:21.13Lone_WandererWell, since stereo is two, it works out to the same thing in the end.
15:21.21PoeticIntensityWe missed ya on Saturday, Lone_Wanderer...
15:21.24Lone_WandererBut it *sounds* better.
15:21.26Lone_WandererI know :'(
15:21.38Lone_WandererI was up until 3 trying to fix my friend's computer.
15:21.43Lone_Wanderer(It's still borked.)
15:21.45brastolol, PoeticIntensity reminded me of a homework assignment my mom kept that I did in first grade.
15:21.57brastoThe teacher wrote a comment on it that I didn't like
15:22.10Lone_WandererIt was just supposed to be a Windows reinstall, but it ended up going very wrong.
15:22.33brastoI tried to say "nuh-uh", but didn't know how to say it in letters, so I wrote "nut uh"
15:23.09Lone_Wandererlawl
15:23.13brastostereo
15:23.31brasto~lawl
15:23.31jbotit has been said that lawl is the sound of someone who has been on IRC too much. see also: roffle.
15:23.32Lone_WandererSo if anyone here knows how to fix a Windows install, please let me know :p
15:23.44Lone_Wanderersay "lol" out loud, as if you're pronouncing a word.
15:23.47Lone_WandererIt's "lawl".
15:24.18brastoah, same applies to roffle
15:24.22brasto~roffle
15:24.24Lone_WandererYep.
15:24.36dataw0lfno, no, 'lol' is pronounced 'el-oh-el'
15:24.55dataw0lfyou same them distinctly to provide sarcasm when you say it
15:25.02Lone_WandererOnce you've mastered lawl and roffle you can move on to the more advanced "lollerskates" and "rofflecopter".
15:25.43Lone_WandererThen throw in some really bad "ur mom" jokes, and you've got the Barrens chat!
15:25.46brastodataw0lf - you same them?
15:26.01brastoor, you have elb
15:26.17Lone_Wanderer~barrens
15:26.21brastobtw, I've been ranting on elb
15:27.28brastojbot elb is an annoying fetcher who frequents another channel, and who has no sense of humor
15:27.29jbotokay, brasto
15:27.35brasto~elb
15:27.36jbotfrom memory, elb is an annoying fetcher who frequents another channel, and who has no sense of humor
15:27.41brastolol
15:27.52brasto~lollerskates
15:27.54Lone_Wandererjbot: barrens is a low-level Horde zone in World of Warcraft with a notoriously childish, spammy, and consistently irritating chat channel
15:27.55jbotLone_Wanderer: okay
15:28.19brasto~lollerskates
15:28.49brasto~rofflecopter
15:29.10wpsso what do you think, brasto? you want April?
15:30.09brastoI'll get in touch with Cole.  Maybe we can see what the group wants.  We can get votes on topics, maybe.
15:30.25brastoI can present one of the following:
15:30.43brastomy self-designed MySQL-driven addressbook
15:30.52brastoPhpGedView
15:32.11*** join/#uphpu PoeticIntensity (n=jason@70.96.176.13)
15:32.11brastomaybe Drupal's good stuff, and it's shortcomings
15:32.11wpsk… I'll keep you on April until I hear otherwise then
15:32.11wpsthanks
15:32.32brastoyw, wps.  I'm sending an email to Cole now.
15:32.32wpsk
15:34.00brastooh, and possibly ical file parsing with php
15:34.21brastomacnewbold expressed interest in that one
15:34.49macnewboldmy interest was primarily rss and ical generation,
15:34.57macnewboldbut I don't need it anymore, as I already finished that project
15:36.56brastoah, ok
15:38.22*** mode/#UPHPU [+o Utah_Dave] by ChanServ
15:38.54Lone_WandererDoes anyone else find the uphpu site's home page to be kind of busy?
15:40.12dataw0lfit's always found time to talk to me
15:40.24dataw0lfmaybe it doesn't like you.
15:40.38Lone_WandererIt ALWAYS has time for you!  You were ALWAYS it's favorite! :'(
15:41.03dataw0lfso sowwy chawie
15:41.25Lone_WandererCharlie?
15:41.32wpsthat's interesting feedback, Lone_Wanderer
15:41.49dataw0lfNOW DIE!
15:41.55dataw0lfI don't think it's too busy
15:42.14Lone_WandererIt's just got a lot of stuff on it.
15:42.25brastowps, on that topic, I don't like the black background, but maybe that's just me
15:42.55dataw0lfI say you use varying tones of light green
15:43.09Lone_Wandererno no, fuschia
15:43.16Lone_Wandererwith orange background
15:43.26dataw0lfnow you're just being ridiculous.
15:43.47Lone_WandererYou were serious about the light green? >.>
15:43.58dataw0lf>:(
15:44.05wpsI considered it fairly sparse and minimalistic… most recent two articles… recent ten headlines… an about paragraph… and navigation
15:44.13macnewboldI don't mind the colors as much as I mind the placement of the navigation - I can't figure out how to navigate the site very well
15:44.26Lone_WandererThat too.
15:44.45Lone_WandererThere's nothing to offset the navigation from the content.
15:45.02dataw0lfI probably would've gone with the side to side bars over top to bottom, but I think it works *shrug*
15:45.02brastoagreed
15:45.07macnewboldbut since it's being put together on donated time, I try not to complain, since I don't have time to try anything myself
15:45.16thebigdoganyone know if IE has issues with onmouseover in div tags?
15:45.25_psychic_I think that's the key in any criticisms leveled at this point. :)
15:45.36wpsdon't hesitate to offer feedback
15:45.45wpsI want it to be enjoyable to use
15:45.55wpsI want people to want to use it
15:46.40Lone_WandererHow do I set up my profile and whatnot?
15:47.00wpsthe "register" link in the footer
15:47.07Lone_WandererI registered
15:47.20Lone_WandererOhhh, there it is.  Update your profile.
15:48.33dataw0lfwhat the heck
15:48.47Lone_Wandererwoah, it changed
15:48.49Lone_Wandererdrastically
15:49.14wpsI would have to put the links in at the top… but do you like that better?
15:49.22dataw0lfyea, put the links at the top
15:49.24brastothemes can do that
15:49.26Lone_WandererWell I think it's prettier.
15:49.28brasto;)
15:49.42Lone_WandererI wasn't sure if it was a theme change or if it was because I'm logged in now.
15:49.50brastoi like it more
15:50.00wpsk… I'll switch it back for now and fix this theme tonight so that it works
15:50.03brastooh, yea, the logged in area looks different
15:50.18Lone_WandererYeah, but I went back to the home page and it was changed.
15:50.37brastowps, you don't like the Dr. Seuss quote?
15:50.40Lone_WandererI logged in, updated my profile, went back "home", and it was different.  So I wasn't sure which it was.
15:51.01wpsthe quote is fine :)
15:51.19macnewboldthebigdog: onmouseover should work, it's hover that doesn't - you can't use css hover on anything except for <a> tags in MSIE
15:51.30brastowps, I sent that email, and CC'ed you
15:51.37wpsgot it
15:51.43thebigdogmacnewbold, i just could not get that too work
15:52.37macnewboldhehe
15:52.41macnewboldit was a lot of fun
15:52.53Lone_WandererHow was it?
15:53.05brastomacnewbold and thebigdog, hover is even more limited than that for ie (version 6 and less) - it only applies to color settings from my experience.
15:53.34macnewboldwell, I found out that our Toyota Highlander Hybrid tops out at 115mph, by design
15:53.39PoeticIntensityhow is your Highlander, anyway?
15:54.00macnewboldnormally it uses the electric motors _and_ the gas engine when necessary, but the electric motors won't assist after 115mph
15:54.04PoeticIntensityand I found out that Mac's Highlander is quite the quick automobile!
15:54.11macnewboldand the v6 by itself can't go faster than that anyway
15:54.25PoeticIntensity0-60 was pretty impressive.
15:54.27PoeticIntensityhonestly.
15:54.36thebigdogdo they still have the engine shutoff
15:54.36PoeticIntensityI've never seen an SUV perform like that.
15:54.39wpsalright gents… two more options
15:54.43macnewboldwe got almost all the salt off I think - I saw a little left in the undercarriage, despite a car was that was supposed to take care of that, and a little left in the wheel wells
15:54.44wpsvote now or forever hold your peace
15:54.51wpsold black website is going away
15:55.00wpsthere are three options to vote for
15:55.15PoeticIntensityI spent close to an hour trying to get all the salt off mine.
15:55.20wpswait until you see all three to cast your vote
15:55.25macnewboldhehe, yeah, I know what you mean
15:55.36PoeticIntensityt'was totally worth it, though, IMO.
15:55.44macnewboldso how did Scott fare the rest of the day?
15:55.52PoeticIntensityThe video turned out pretty sweet, too.
15:56.01PoeticIntensityScott's car was able to make it all the way home..
15:56.03wpsoption 1: "october"
15:56.04wpshttp://uphpu.org/
15:56.12wps(refresh now)
15:56.20PoeticIntensitythough his engine light was blinking most of the way.
15:56.29PoeticIntensityhold on... I'll ask him exactly what he found out to be wrong.
15:57.04Lone_WandererI wonder what kind of salt the salt flats are made of.
15:57.12wpsoption two: "glossy blue"
15:57.17wps(refresh now)
15:57.27macnewboldI'm not too fond of the colophon, and I'd like to see the category options up higher, personally
15:57.49wps(just judge it on it's general appearance/layout… I would have to hack/clean it up)
15:58.06macnewboldoh, okay
15:58.18wpsoption 3: "redoable"
15:58.21wps(refresh)
15:58.40thebigdog+2 redoable
15:58.47wpsalright
15:58.48wpscast them votes
15:58.52wps1, 2, or 3
15:58.52dataw0lf+1 redoable
15:59.07wps:)
15:59.07thebigdoglol
15:59.15Lone_Wanderer+2 redoable, +1 glossy blue
15:59.20thebigdoglol
15:59.29Lone_Wanderer(to reflect that either are fine but redoable is better)
15:59.30thebigdog+3 #3
15:59.30_psychic_Lone_Wanderer: girl.
15:59.40dataw0lf_psychic_: dude, c'mon
15:59.43wpsif you like the format of 2 a lot and just don't like the colors, I could just change the colors
15:59.44dataw0lfLW isn't a girl
15:59.47dataw0lfLW is a WOMAN
15:59.52_psychic_Lone_Wanderer: woman.
15:59.57dataw0lfbetter
16:00.00macnewboldwps: I would be willing to accept #2 or #3, and given _psychic_'s threat, I'll take #3 I guess :)
16:00.02Lone_WandererYou make me feel like a natural WO-MAN
16:00.12wpsalright… any more votes?
16:00.15_psychic_Ah, the benefits of open ballot.
16:00.17macnewboldI'm not too fond of the colors or the format of #1
16:00.20wpsgoing once…
16:00.22wpsgoing twice…
16:00.32_psychic_Lone_Wanderer: That layout *does* have that effect on people.
16:00.48wpsalright ladies and gentleman… I will work on switching it over to 3 tonight
16:00.54macnewboldsweet!
16:00.56macnewboldwps, you rock
16:01.01dataw0lfthnx wps
16:01.03wpsI'm here to please
16:01.08dataw0lfnow I'm kinda regretting voting on redoable
16:01.11dataw0lfcuz I like it a lot
16:01.18Lone_Wanderer_psychic_: which one, glossy blue?
16:01.20dataw0lfand the green on my site is hurting my eyes.
16:01.23_psychic_Lone_Wanderer: yes.
16:01.51Lone_WandererDude, Josh, that picture of you on your site is perfect.
16:02.11Lone_WandererAlmost as good as this one of Hillary... let me find it quick
16:02.16dataw0lfyea, it captures my essence
16:02.33Lone_Wandererhttp://www.all4humor.com/images/files/Scary%20Hillary%20Clinton.jpg
16:03.06_psychic_dataw0lf: confused, surprised, and disembodied?
16:03.40_psychic_..and comparable to Hillary Clinton?
16:03.56dataw0lf_psychic_: I was thinking more along the lines of frighteningly stylish
16:04.03Lone_WandererNot comparable.
16:04.07Lone_WandererIt just reminded me of that shot of her.
16:04.17_psychic_...reminiscent of Hillary Clinton?
16:04.19_psychic_;)
16:04.23Lone_Wanderere.e
16:04.35dataw0lfLone_Wanderer has Hillary on the brain
16:04.42_psychic_ew
16:05.02dataw0lfman, my new laptop really is just about the awesomest thing ever
16:05.12_psychic_what kind?
16:05.18dataw0lfalienware area-51
16:05.26Lone_Wandererdataw0lf: Did you look at the picture?  It embodies her personality perfectly.
16:05.38dataw0lfinnit loading
16:06.02dataw0lf[+dataw0lf(+ei)] [4:#uphpu(+n)] [Act: 1,5,7,8,9,10,13,15,17,19]
16:06.02dataw0lf(#uphpu) http://stderr.ws/
16:06.03_psychic_I got a new machine too, but its kinda freaking me out
16:06.06dataw0lferr, oops
16:06.17dataw0lfhttp://stderr.ws/blog/entry/11/ specs on my laptop
16:06.41_psychic_dataw0lf: you should play CoD2 with us sometime
16:06.48dataw0lfyou don't want none
16:06.54dataw0lfwif me and my thompson
16:07.02_psychic_"Oh cute... Josh is shooting a smoke grenade!"
16:07.06_psychic_you're right.
16:07.52dataw0lfit'll be more like *respawn* *respawn* *respawn* *respawn*
16:08.08_psychic_mmhmm
16:08.19_psychic_we play pistols and grenades quite often
16:08.23_psychic_s'pretty fun
16:08.41_psychic_And the Garand totally ownz
16:09.06dataw0lfI just surprise circle strafe with the Thompson and yer done
16:10.07timinatorDW: http://www.apple.com/macbookpro/specs.html specs on my laptop (17")
16:10.08_psychic_"surprise" circle strafe, eh?
16:10.10timinator:)
16:10.13_psychic_Sounds.... tactical.
16:10.19Lone_WandererWhat's CoD2?
16:10.23Lone_WandererCall of Duty?
16:10.27_psychic_indeed
16:10.31dataw0lfyes, as in, I jump from a window and circle strafe you from behind, son
16:10.37Lone_WandererIs it better than RtCW?
16:10.48_psychic_dataw0lf: bring it
16:10.58dataw0lfoh, I'm bringing it
16:11.01dataw0lfit and a bag of chips
16:11.07dataw0lfto eat between winning rounds
16:11.14timinatorLOL
16:14.24dataw0lfI'll bring a box of kleenex too
16:15.12dataw0lfor a white hanky so after you're done cryin', you can surrender
16:15.23thebigdogso what is the verdict on the site?
16:17.15dataw0lf3, i believe.
16:18.13thebigdogcool beans
16:18.31thebigdogmacnewbold, smack beandog for us
16:20.13timinatoranyone have screenshots? I missed the refreshes
16:23.42thebigdogyour out of luck timinator
16:24.29timinatorno big
16:24.54timinatorya'll better pick well though
16:25.50macnewbold~smack beandog
16:26.04macnewbold(have to wait a bit to catch him by surprise)
16:26.10macnewbold~wake jbot
16:26.46timinator~lart
16:31.43timinator~lart thebigdog
16:31.47timinatorLOL
16:31.59thebigdogty
16:33.52wpslife sized whale in your browser: http://www.wdcs.co.uk/media/flash/whalebanner/content_pub_en.html
16:34.43thebigdogdataw0lf likes the blow hole
16:34.55dataw0lfhot air++
16:34.56macnewbolddataw0lf is a blow hole
16:35.01dataw0lfhot air++
16:35.16macnewbold~karma hot air
16:35.16jbothot air has neutral karma
16:40.02*** join/#uphpu mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49)
16:40.16mgearyguten Morgen
16:42.16dataw0lfnicht so gut
16:42.24mgearywieso denn nicht?
16:45.09dataw0lfmgeary: ich bin mude
16:46.21mgearyja, ich auch. Habe auch heute Morgen eine Zahn-Würzelbehandlung haben müssen :/
16:46.25Lone_WandererIch wie dansk vhrzghlaben!
16:46.33mgearyexactly
16:47.05dataw0lfder Montag... :\
16:47.06Lone_WandererNicht ischt zie flauder-handeute!!!!
16:47.09timinatorfarfrompuken
16:49.06Lone_WandererI wonder what Germans say when they're making fun of English speakers.
16:50.51dataw0lfthey're too scared of being called Nazis to make fun of engrish.
16:50.51Lone_WandererI should've kept in touch with that cute blonde girl I met in Bonn.
16:51.41mgearygermans think that english-speakers talk in the very front of their mouth
16:52.02mgearywhen they make fun, it usually has to do with our "R"
16:53.43Lone_WandererMakes sense.
16:54.40Lone_WandererI've got Cash in my head.
16:58.53mgearynot as good as in your hand
16:59.05dataw0lf+1 QOTD
16:59.34dataw0lfhttp://intelligence-summit.blogspot.com/2007/03/iran-to-hit-back-at-us-kidnaps.html
16:59.37dataw0lfoy vey
17:00.21_psychic_the URL for that story seems less credible...
17:01.03dataw0lfwell, let me find one even less credible
17:01.05dataw0lfhttp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,259484,00.html
17:01.08dataw0lfthere ya go
17:01.12_psychic_lol
17:02.23dataw0lfget Iran to kidnap some of our officers
17:02.32dataw0lfthen say, 'hey, we gotta declare war'
17:02.41dataw0lfhypocrisy is a bit over the Bush administration's head.
17:04.47_psychic_I think he's going for overt global policing.
17:04.52_psychic_Rather than subterfuge.
17:05.47Lone_Wandererovert global policing is more or less the Neocon party line.
17:06.24dataw0lfyea, global policing + hegemony + anti science
17:06.27dataw0lfit's a great stance
17:07.10Lone_WandererI heard a neocon on NPR the other day talking about how the US's main problem is not that we do too much, but that we're too timid.
17:07.14dataw0lfit's like if Jesus had been a warlord and mentally handicapped, he'd totally have been neocon.
17:07.58dataw0lf^^ I said that the other night and almost got punched, in response to "Bush is JESUS'S candidate"
17:09.05mgearyokay, here's a web dev question for ya--
17:09.08Lone_WandererDid you respond with "Who would Jesus punch"?
17:09.56mgearyi've got a report input page, where we gather parameters. I'm doing server-side validation on this page, so i prefer to keep it all in one PHP page. However, i'd like the report to be in popup window, since it's quite wide and will want to be printed
17:10.00dataw0lfno, but I should've, like "Who would Jesus punch... YOU *smack*"
17:10.21dataw0lfmgeary, right
17:10.41mgearybut i can't do the window in an onLoad handler, since popup blocker will nab it
17:11.01dataw0lfright, so you do input, they have to click a button to submit, correct?
17:11.12dataw0lfuse that as the event to generate the report.
17:11.28mgearybut if the serverside validation fails, then i don't want to pop the window
17:12.02_psychic_ajax the validation respose
17:12.02dataw0lfpop it up, validate, then close if it doesn't validate
17:12.05_psychic_*response
17:14.54mgearyhrm. yeah. neither of those fit super well into what i've got. but hey
17:16.20mgearythe issue is one of the target property. normally my form target is the same page that has the input fields. simplicity would suggest having a _blank window be the target
17:16.48mgearybut then i'm duplicating my form validation to some extent: once in the input field page, and once in the report page
17:18.21Lone_WandererWhy do I like weird, atonal, wailing music?
17:18.50macnewboldmgeary: when you say "duplicating my form validation", do you mean it is running twice, or something else?
17:19.55mgearywell, if the report is in a popup, it obviously needs the input parameters to be passed. If this is done via GET, as seems logical, those values ought to be validated before the report output is displayed
17:20.01dataw0lfLone_Wanderer: Are you Indian?
17:20.04Lone_WandererNo.
17:20.09dataw0lfhm, who knows then.
17:20.10Lone_WandererBut I think the music may be.
17:20.37mgearyanyway, i'll try some things out
17:21.03macnewboldmgeary: yes, but validating them should be quick, and you should be able to just use an include or a function/method call to make sure the exact same validation happens in both cases
17:22.06dataw0lfthat's a much better solution.  Depending upon the validation technique.
17:26.46mgearyyeah, possibly so. i'm using a Report class to manage required inputs anyway, so the redundancy is more of an elegance issue than a real inconvenience
17:28.30dataw0lfwell, I mean, if you abstract it into a method or function, it'll be reusable, so elegance isn't really a problem.
17:28.40dataw0lfespecially if you imp it generically enough.
17:29.13Lone_Wanderer~imp dataw0lf
17:29.20PoeticIntensitywhere the hey is beandog?
17:29.38Lone_Wandererjbot: imp is <action> turns <target> into a small, annoying demon.
17:29.39jbot...but imp is already something else...
17:31.07Lone_Wanderer~imp
17:31.08jbotIMAP and PHP3 based webmail system. URL: http://www.horde.org/imp/
17:31.08Lone_Wanderer~documentation
17:31.09jbot[documentation] not the issue for why the new stuff isn't completed
17:31.09Lone_Wanderer:(
17:31.09PoeticIntensity~lart Lone_Wanderer
17:31.09Lone_Wanderer~crymore
17:31.10PoeticIntensityheh
17:31.11mgeary~frontal lobotomy
17:31.12PoeticIntensityafter talking with Scott, it seems that some salt got into two of the eight chambers in his motor.
17:31.12PoeticIntensitycausing some ruckus.
17:31.16PoeticIntensityweeeeeeird.
17:31.16Lone_Wandererthat sounds very bad
17:31.33PoeticIntensityyeah.... it killed his engine for about an hour.
17:31.40Lone_Wanderer:(
17:31.51PoeticIntensityI actually have *no* idea how he got it started.... especially because it was being towed...
17:32.28PoeticIntensitystrange.... but... he did drive it home.
17:33.21dataw0lfif you don't, I want pics plz
17:33.28PoeticIntensityROFL
17:33.33Lone_Wandererouch
17:33.38mgearykidding
17:33.40Lone_Wandererwhat'd they do to you, mgeary?
17:34.28mgearyhad a crown on a non-root-canaled tooth. the tooth didn't hurt normally, but it really didn't like being chewed on, so after watching it for ~8 months, i finally made the call to have it root-canaled :/
17:36.23macnewboldPoeticIntensity: yeah, the only thing I can think of is that he basically had the equivalent of a push start at 50mph while I was towing him...
17:36.52macnewboldbut he would have had to throw it in gear for that, no?
17:38.15PoeticIntensitymacnewbold:  He drives an automatic....  I have no idea if that's even possible, however.... he seemed to do it.
17:38.26PoeticIntensityheh... and it worked.
17:38.28macnewboldweird
17:38.31PoeticIntensityyeah.
17:38.56macnewboldyeah, I thought he had come loose when he pulled off to the side (cause I slowed down and he got closer, so I thought we lost the tension and he came undone)
17:39.08macnewboldbut then when he accelerated to pass me I knew something else was up
17:39.20Lone_WandererI'm assuming you weren't still towing him at that point...
17:39.44macnewboldno, he had released the tension and come unhooked
17:39.48Lone_Wandererahh ok
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17:42.57dataw0lfyour entire life savings of Manhood?
17:43.05dataw0lf;-)
17:43.20timinatorI've got a little left over
17:43.23timinatorLOL
17:43.26timinatorhttp://www.saturn.com/saturn/vehicles/relay/overview.jsp
17:43.35timinatorin silver
17:44.01dataw0lfyou should take it off some sweet jumps.
17:44.39macnewboldtiminator: you should meet us out at the salt flats / speedway next time ;)
17:44.41timinatorI'll have it paid off in time to have a mid-life crisis Ferari by age 35
17:44.46PoeticIntensitytotally.
17:45.03timinatorfo sho
17:45.14Lone_WandererHow old are you?  You may not qualify yet.
17:45.19PoeticIntensityI just talked with Scott and ......
17:45.24PoeticIntensityhis car will start in neutral.
17:45.25PoeticIntensityso...
17:45.28timinatorhow old am I?
17:45.31Lone_WandererYou have to be at least 38 to qualify for the midlife crisis writeoff.
17:45.33PoeticIntensitywhile he was being towed, he just started it... and it started.
17:45.34Lone_WandererNo, PI.
17:45.40PoeticIntensityshifted it, and he was off.
17:45.42PoeticIntensityI'm 31.
17:45.43PoeticIntensity:)
17:45.46PoeticIntensitydo I qualify?
17:45.53dataw0lfnope.
17:45.55timinatornope... don't qualify
17:45.56Lone_WandererNope.  Seven more years.
17:45.56PoeticIntensitydarn.
17:46.04PoeticIntensitywell, then....
17:46.05Lone_Wanderer*then* you can have a midlife crisis.
17:46.07PoeticIntensitythat means I can get another car!
17:46.13Lone_WandererExactly.
17:46.21dataw0lfthat's how to explain it to the wifie, anyways.
17:46.26PoeticIntensitysure!
17:46.32PoeticIntensityhoney.... I'm having a mid-life crisis.
17:46.38PoeticIntensityI'll be back in a couple of hours.
17:46.38macnewboldthat's bizarre, PoeticIntensity - but I'm very glad he got it started. towing him to wendover wouldn't have been bad (for me) but towing him back to slc wouldn't have been too fun
17:46.49timinatorya.... say it's either a new car or a new woman.....
17:46.52PoeticIntensityno..... that's true.
17:46.57PoeticIntensitythere ya go.
17:47.11PoeticIntensityhe drove all the way home, not without problems, but... he got there.
17:47.15dataw0lfyea, then he'll get no car and be missing some teeth.
17:47.22timinatorLOL
17:47.26timinatorfo sho
17:47.26PoeticIntensityheh.... and my wife and children.
17:47.31dataw0lfmove to Ogden and the transition would be complete
17:47.46Lone_WandererWhy Ogden?
17:47.52dataw0lfbecause he has no car and is missing teeth
17:47.53timinatorya, why Ogden
17:48.04timinatorDW:  .|..
17:48.46dataw0lf:D
17:48.55Lone_WandererAhh, okay.
17:50.35PoeticIntensityLOL
17:50.37PoeticIntensitythat's great.
17:50.45PoeticIntensityOgden...
17:50.53dataw0lfogden, more like hogden
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18:24.56timinatoranyone have tomtom?
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18:27.29mgeary~yowZA
18:27.52mindjuju~ranq
18:27.53jbotACTION One cannot be betrayed if one has no people.
18:56.34mindjujui hate web 2.0 company names
18:57.50wpsI hate most things about web 2.0
19:04.04thebigdog~lart mindjuju
19:04.13timinatormindjuju: what names are you referring to?
19:04.26thebigdogmindjuju 2.1
19:04.33thebigdogmindjuju.2.1.com
19:04.34mindjujugoowy
19:05.05timinatorwps: what other things do you hate about web 2.0?
19:05.21mindjujui was just looking at what it takes for an AJAX desktop and was seeing tons of web 2.0 names
19:05.23timinatormindjuju: I like digg as a name
19:05.33mindjujudigg is alright
19:05.35mindjujuit works
19:05.39mindjujugoowy , is just dumb
19:05.46timinatorfor shure
19:05.59wpsit's not just web 2.0, but web 2.0 is a place where is a rampant
19:06.03wpsthe whole bandwagon thing
19:06.11wpsI _hate_ it when people are not original
19:06.24wpsI _hate_ it when people do thing a certain way just because everyone else is doing it
19:06.38wpspick you own dang color scheme
19:06.41wpspick your own dang font
19:06.43timinatorI hear ya there
19:06.48wpsresearch what will be best for your users
19:07.02wpsI hate that all web 2.0 apps/web sites look the same
19:07.22wpsand I am sick-ready-to-puke over gradients and reflections
19:07.29wpsgag
19:07.32mindjujuyeah, was just going to say reflections
19:07.39thebigdogbiggest problem is that you have programmers as ui guys....not good!
19:07.50timinatorfor shure
19:08.00timinatorwps is a hybrid
19:08.05timinatormost are not
19:08.10timinatormyself included
19:08.46thebigdoglol
19:09.11wpsthere needs to be more time in the world
19:09.17timinatorLOL
19:09.20wpsmore time to fly kites, eat exotic food, and for love-making
19:09.22thebigdog~time wps
19:09.27timinator~clone wps
19:09.41thebigdogmy 2yr old wants a kite
19:09.51thebigdoghe informed me they are at the mall
19:09.58thebigdogcan you tell he has sisters?
19:10.15wpsI can't wait for my daughter to be able to walk so that we can run around at the park and go hiking
19:10.39thebigdogyeah are fun that way
19:11.34timinatorLOL
19:13.01timinatorthebigdog needs to videotape thelittledog playing his electric guitar
19:13.19thebigdogoh yeah...i got that...i need to rip it to divx
19:13.31thebigdogi need to do that tonight
19:13.35mindjuju~wiseguy thebigdog
19:14.08thebigdoghere it comes
19:14.12thebigdog~tunafart mindjuju
19:20.10mindjuju~jbot
19:20.11jbotsomebody said jbot was only marginally useful at best, He got a C- on his Turing Test, or dating the fembots, or a potty mouth, or some dimwit who learns crud.
19:20.19mindjuju~tunafart thebigdog
19:20.28mindjujucurious
19:20.28thebigdog~lart mindjuju
19:20.38thebigdog~melvin mindjuju
19:20.39mindjujutunafart has been removed?
19:20.51mindjuju~timattack thebigdog
19:20.55thebigdoglooks like it might be the case
19:21.04Utah_Davewhat?
19:21.06mindjujuyeah, all the ones we built are gone
19:21.10Utah_DaveNo tunafart!
19:21.15Utah_Davethat was my favorite
19:21.20Utah_Dave~tunafart
19:21.22mindjuju~macattack utah_dave
19:21.34mindjuju~ranq
19:21.35jbotACTION get in the flask!
19:21.37Utah_Dave~fart mindjuju
19:21.43Utah_Dave~tunafart mindjuju
19:21.47mindjujuwell, at least ranq works
19:22.04thebigdogmy melvin is gone?????urgh
19:22.10thebigdoglol
19:22.11mindjujuyeah, everything seems to be
19:22.29mindjujui wonder if they will come back or if they are gone permanantly
19:22.29thebigdog~smack jbot
19:22.41Utah_Dave~mindjuju mindjuju
19:23.13thebigdogmight need to ask riker on that one
19:23.14mindjujuyeah, was just looking for him
19:23.14Utah_Dave~mindjuju thebigdog
19:23.15Utah_Dave:)
19:23.16mindjujuthe bots in botpark are acting weird too
19:24.14mindjujuhe's not on freenode right now
19:24.20mindjuju~seen timriker
19:24.33jbottimriker <n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker> was last seen on IRC in channel #bzflag, 2d 19h 56m 50s ago, saying: 'nice soc flyers. :)'.
19:24.44mindjuju~ranq
19:24.45jbotACTION Carpe diem. Seize the day, boys. Make your lives extraordinary.
19:27.00timinator~timattack thebigdog
19:27.10mindjuju~chuckfact
19:27.11jbotextra, extra, read all about it, chuckfact is Chuck Norris hand is the only hand that can beat a Royal Flush
19:27.25mindjujuyeah, that's my fav
19:27.38mindjujucurrious, so it appears to just be the attack ones we were using?
19:27.45mindjuju~dhit thebigdog
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19:52.36Lone_Wanderer~deadpoet mindjuju
19:52.55mindjuju~ranq
19:52.56jbotACTION Life is pain, princess,anyone who says differently is selling something
19:53.30Lone_WandererWhat does ranq stand for?
19:53.40mindjujurandom quote
19:53.43Lone_Wandererahh cool
19:54.02mindjujutry it out
19:54.13timinatorI'm drawing a blank on the origin of that quote
19:54.16timinatoranyone?
19:54.25mindjujuPrincess Bride
19:54.31timinatorAH, right
19:54.41Lone_Wanderer~ranq
19:54.42jbotACTION get in the flask!
19:54.55Lone_Wanderer...
19:54.56mindjujui love that movie
19:55.12mindjujuhas nobody seen that movie?
19:55.17timinatorfor shure
19:55.19timinatorown it
19:55.23mindjujunice!
19:55.30timinatoranybody want a peanut?
19:55.45mindjujuoh, well, that one was princess bride
19:55.52mindjujuget in the flask is Little Nicky
19:56.07mindjujuAdam Sandler goes running through NYC saying get in the flask, it's pretty funny
19:56.14timinatorOh, my mistake... was still on Princess Bride
19:56.36timinatorI haven't seen Little Nicky... looked dumb
19:57.03thebigdogvery dubm
19:57.18thebigdogis there a trim function in javascript
19:57.30timinatorask the JS guru
19:57.48timinatoroh, you *are* the JS guru
19:57.52thebigdoglol
19:58.01Lone_Wandererlemme get out my book
19:58.03Lone_Wandererone sec
19:58.08thebigdogi dont see one...but i could be wrong
19:59.53macnewboldyou could use replace: s/^[ \t\n\r]+//; s/[ \t\n\r]+$//;
20:00.05thebigdogyeah...that is just ugly though
20:00.31thebigdogwho is running the javascript proj anyways
20:00.40Lone_WandererDoesn't appear to be.
20:01.05thebigdogill just substring the bad boy
20:01.23dataw0lfstring.replace(/^\s+|\s|$/,'')
20:01.27dataw0lfjust prototype 'er
20:02.17dataw0lfString.prototype.trim = function() { return this.replace(thatregexIsaidearlier); };
20:02.21dataw0lfsomestring.trim()
20:02.22dataw0lftada
20:03.22thebigdogyeah
20:04.24dataw0lfAnd for my next trick, I shall make this beer disappear!
20:04.34dataw0lfTADA!
20:05.52thebigdognice
20:10.15PoeticIntensity*sigh*....
20:10.18PoeticIntensityI don't know jack.
20:10.31PoeticIntensityokay..... I guess I know jack, but not a whole lot more.
20:10.45PoeticIntensityI am in need of a link / paper / book / anything that'll help me undertsand SOAP.
20:10.47PoeticIntensityany takers?
20:11.00macnewboldwikipedia?
20:11.07PoeticIntensityand... if anyone here knows how, I could also use a tutorial on how to build a SOAP server.
20:11.07thebigdogwhat do you need to know PoeticIntensity
20:11.16thebigdogin php?
20:11.17PoeticIntensitywell.... I'm reading quite a bit on what it is...
20:11.18macnewboldyou don't want to do that
20:11.27macnewboldREST is a better model in many ways
20:11.30PoeticIntensityit just seems to be a protocol of sorts.
20:11.34PoeticIntensityREST?
20:11.40Lone_Wandererwhat's prototype do?
20:11.40PoeticIntensitynever heard of it...
20:11.49jsmithPoeticIntensity: I've done it, but don't have time to teach it right now.
20:11.55PoeticIntensityalright.
20:12.01dataw0lfLone_Wanderer: prototype adds methods and properties to all available instances
20:12.04Lone_WandererString.prototype.whatever
20:12.08Lone_Wanderercool
20:12.08dataw0lfor maybe all later created instances
20:12.09macnewboldyeah, it's soap's competitor - really it's just a fancy-ish name for making a web service on top of regular http calls
20:12.13dataw0lfcan't member
20:12.18Lone_Wandererso you're changing the String class itself somehow?
20:12.27dataw0lfyes
20:12.27PoeticIntensityok.
20:12.36dataw0lfit's like subclassing, but the instance based OOP way
20:12.40PoeticIntensitymacnewbold: does REST use XML?
20:13.21macnewboldi.e. put together a post string for your request, curl it to the server, then it processes it and returns a response in some pre-agreed format (may be xml, most likely not imho since there are much easier things to parse), and then the requestor parses the response
20:13.25thebigdogPoeticIntensity, if you need something simple then soap is not the way to go...if you need enterprise then soap is good
20:14.03PoeticIntensitythebigdog: This is for our entire company.
20:14.15PoeticIntensitybasically... we need a good way to receive leads into our main db.
20:14.16macnewboldand why does something less simple make it better for larger scale use?
20:14.30mindjujuand for a decent overview of many a topic, i suggest w3schools.com
20:14.31mindjujuhttp://www.w3schools.com/soap/default.asp
20:14.38macnewbold~mindjuju++
20:14.51PoeticIntensityas of now, our many partners are FTP'ing csv and xml files to a server, and we're downloading them and putting them into our parser...
20:14.54PoeticIntensitybut it's not real-time.
20:15.01thebigdogmacnewbold, cause you might be interfacing with alot of other customer and you dont care what they use for their soap implementation
20:15.10dataw0lfPoeticIntensity: well, you just hit on what I do.
20:15.23dataw0lfcode for generating realtime leads
20:15.33PoeticIntensitydataw0lf: interesting.
20:15.42dataw0lfwe don't use SOAP though.
20:15.47dataw0lfWe use REST ;-)
20:15.54macnewboldREST++ :)
20:16.16PoeticIntensitywe just need a way for a customer to give us a small to extremely large (read: 20+M) files full of leads in some format, to be parsed and inserted into our db.
20:16.20macnewboldrest can be a lot simpler, easier, higher performance, more flexible, easier to implement (on both sides)
20:16.21PoeticIntensityREST...
20:16.23PoeticIntensityhrmmm.....
20:16.55PoeticIntensityand we need our system to barf back some sort of signal that it was parsed and inserted correctly.
20:16.55macnewboldone really nice thing about rest is can be used easily by a machine or a person
20:17.13mindjujuand you need it secure
20:17.33macnewboldfor example, you could make a web form that posted the right info (including the file) to your rest server, just like any automated client would use
20:17.47PoeticIntensitydataw0lf: I'm not so interested in the actual generation of the lead...  I just need to take a file, parse it, verify it, insert it into our db, and give a response.
20:18.00PoeticIntensityI assume REST / SOAP was built just for this type of application.....
20:18.01PoeticIntensityright?
20:18.14dataw0lfI wouldn't use SOAP, personally, it's old tech.
20:18.40PoeticIntensityany other technologies I need to read up on before presenting a solution for the company?
20:19.14PoeticIntensity(This is extremely helpful, by the way...  Thank you dataw0lf / macnewbold)
20:19.51dataw0lfuhm, well you always want to read up on HTTP and data structures. ;-)
20:20.08thebigdogold tech but very extensive and used throughout many langs
20:21.17thebigdogif you need other alternatives you have json-rpc too
20:21.41PoeticIntensityyeah...
20:21.52thebigdogif you want to get crazy use beep
20:22.08thebigdogdataw0lf might appreciate that
20:22.38PoeticIntensityAs I understand it, this whole "Web Services" thing is nothing more than a platform unspecific way to catch, process, and then throw back data.
20:22.57PoeticIntensityI'm reading up on google: "SOAP vs REST"
20:23.00PoeticIntensityevidently, there's a war going on.
20:23.01PoeticIntensity:)
20:23.34Lone_WandererSOAP is teh suxorz!!!
20:23.43Lone_WandererREST ROCKS!
20:23.47_psychic_soap isn't restful?
20:24.44thebigdogPoeticIntensity let me through you another option too
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20:24.54thebigdogjabber is nice for what you are doing too
20:25.22thebigdogi have written some services that use jabber for sending and receiving xml files via jabber messages
20:25.45dataw0lfwhy use XMPP when you can use HTTP?
20:25.50thebigdogthat way i did not need to write the server and it was very easy to allow users to send data with security
20:26.03thebigdogframework for the service is there already
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20:26.27dataw0lfso is HTTP.
20:26.27PoeticIntensityveddy eeeenteresting....
20:26.45thebigdogbut i did not need to write a server for it
20:27.00thebigdogand i already had the server up and running and using it
20:27.17dataw0lfbut do you really recommend that in a commercial environ?
20:27.31thebigdogdepends
20:27.37PoeticIntensityI've gotta have serious forethought in this...
20:27.57thebigdogi have used it on commercial apps
20:28.01PoeticIntensityif its built right, it'll be used for much more than lead importing.
20:28.14PoeticIntensityand make my life much easier in the long run.
20:32.40mindjuju~ranq
20:32.41jbotACTION Shop smart. Shop S-Mart.
20:33.17mindjujuanybody who doesn't know where that quote comes from needs to punch themselves in the kidneys
20:45.18Lone_WandererI just tried but it's a bit hard to reach them myself.
20:45.27Lone_WandererShould I have someone near me punch my kidneys on my behalf?
20:46.01macnewboldI'm not sure I've seen that movie...
20:46.43PoeticIntensityhrmmmm.....
20:47.00PoeticIntensitylooks like REST will work best for me.
20:47.14PoeticIntensityhttp://webservices.sys-con.com/read/79282_1.htm
20:47.17PoeticIntensitybased on that.
20:47.25PoeticIntensitypretty objective article.
20:51.52Lone_WandererThe Deadite Cpt. misquoted Shakespeare
20:52.13*** join/#uphpu dataw0lf (n=stderr@stderr.ws) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
20:52.13*** join/#uphpu olds (i=olds@antitech.xmission.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
20:52.13Lone_Wandererit's "Cry havoc and let *slip* the dogs of war."  He said "loose".
20:52.44Lone_Wanderermacnewbold: Army of Darkness
20:52.54macnewboldah, yep, that's why I don't know it
20:53.15Lone_WandererI think I'm going to rent it.
20:58.50Lone_Wandererdataw0lf: ping
20:59.37mindjujuarmy of darkness = one of the best movies EVAR
21:00.45wpsI have one for you timinator
21:01.41dataw0lfLone_Wanderer: sup?
21:01.45dataw0lfScissor Sisters++
21:02.02Lone_Wandererdataw0lf: Hack the Desert.
21:02.09Lone_WandererHow exactly do you hack a type of terrain?
21:02.25dataw0lfby getting really drunk and illogically punching it
21:02.34Lone_WandererGood answer.
21:02.39mindjujuor hitting the ground with a hatchet
21:04.04timinatorcool wps
21:04.14wpsI love the Scissor Sisters
21:04.25Lone_WandererAnd the shellcode is contained in your fist somehow?
21:04.32timinatordo ya?
21:06.25timinatorthey're big in europe, so I hear
21:10.53timinatorI just bought "Comfortably Numb (ATOC Extended Edit)" by them
21:11.15timinatordo you recommend any song specifically wps?
21:13.15Lone_WandererApparently he gives "Ooh" five stars.
21:14.50timinatorthat just means that he want's it to be shuffled into the mix more frequently.... I have a ton of songs that I love, but only have 1 star
21:15.47timinatorany new song for me receives 5 stars... and I drop the ranking as needed
21:15.50Lone_WandererOh.
21:15.58Lone_WandererWhat program is that?
21:16.02timinatoriTunes
21:16.33timinatorit has something called a "playlist shuffle"
21:16.36timinatorI love it
21:17.00Lone_Wandereryes, I am familiar with the demonspawn known as itunes.
21:18.17dataw0lfjobsspawn
21:18.19dataw0lfsamething
21:18.28timinatorLOL
21:18.57Lone_WandererJust as I am familiar with the three-headed dog Cerberus, guardian of the fiery gates of Hell, and the Nidhogg, whose breath melts beauty from the faces of nubile maidens.
21:20.07dataw0lfdude
21:20.11dataw0lfyou really have to stop playing WoW
21:20.18Lone_Wandererlol
21:20.19timinatorseriously
21:20.21Lone_Wanderernone of those are from WoW.
21:20.40Lone_WandererI just wanted to demonstrate my distaste for iTunes.
21:21.06timinatorwhy do you hate iTunes?
21:21.17Lone_WandererCerberus is Greek mythology and the Nidhogg is Nordic.
21:21.33dataw0lfI know
21:21.38dataw0lfI was just trying to be funny :\
21:21.39Lone_WandererFor various reasons, none of which I can remember right now.
21:21.41timinatorI've used other apps.... iTunes rocks in comparison
21:21.42Lone_WandererOh ok.
21:22.20Lone_WandererNono, iTunes has just rotted your brain.  It's like Perl - you *think* you like it after using it for a while, but what's really happened is that you just get used to it.
21:22.24timinatordo you hate it because of DRM? cause i'll agree with you there
21:22.31macnewboldxmms
21:22.58Lone_WandererI don't actually know why I hate it.  I just do.
21:23.03timinatorok
21:23.07macnewboldmemory hog?
21:23.14Lone_WandererSure, that works.
21:23.23timinatortrue... but so is Photoshop
21:23.27Lone_WandererAlthough if I state specific reasons why I don't like it, then those can be refuted.
21:23.28timinatorand I love both
21:23.34Lone_Wanderer^^ like that
21:23.50timinator:)
21:23.59Lone_WandererWhen really it's too subjective to even argue about.
21:24.08timinatorI've got 2 Gigs of RAM.... works great
21:24.09wpsI don't feel like dancin'
21:24.20timinatorwelcome back wps
21:24.30wpsLaura
21:24.53Lone_WandererYou name your rifle whatever you want.  Matilda is *my* Garand.
21:25.05dataw0lfBertha
21:25.10dataw0lfalways the name of my primary rifle
21:25.12wpsShe's My Man, Lights, and I Can't Decide
21:25.13wpsto start
21:25.27Lone_WandererActually I think my Garand was named Melanie.
21:25.45Lone_WandererShe was a good rifle.
21:26.06*** join/#uphpu burnin (n=burnin@hongkong.machinage.com)
21:26.30Lone_WandererAlthough I made the mistake of saying "I have a rifle with that name!" when I met a real girl named Melanie.  She never danced with me again.
21:26.30timinatorI've got to get a few guns before the Dems take the Presidency and strip all of our rights
21:26.54Lone_Wandereris it the Dems that are in favor of gun "control"?
21:27.25Lone_WandererWho are you hoping takes the presidency next time around, timinator?
21:27.37Lone_WandererAs long as Giuliani and Hillary both lose, I'll be happy.
21:27.45timinatorseriously... I don't like any of them....
21:28.00burninhmm, after the current administration it seems they are both after our rights.
21:28.03Lone_WandererWhat don't you like about Obama, other than him being a Dem?
21:28.08wpshillary and rocky anderson should commit suicide together
21:28.18burninbetween the two of them we'll be simple serfs in no time at all
21:28.20macnewboldhaha
21:28.25Lone_WandererThat's a great idea.
21:28.52mindjujui'm voting for Pedro, cause I want all my wildest dreams to come true
21:28.53Lone_WandererI don't mind moderate democrats, but Hillary just gives me the willies.
21:28.56wpsI cannot believe that the citizens of Salt Lake put up with him
21:29.02wpsand that they pay him
21:29.19wps… because he doesn't spend any time working as mayor
21:29.29Lone_WandererKind of like Jesse Ventura.
21:29.29dataw0lfRocky Anderson rocks.
21:29.50Lone_WandererWhen that guy was governor, it was like the entire state was just having one big party the whole time.
21:30.11wpsregardless of whether you agree with his views, how do you agree with him spending all day working on person projects and not doing his job as mayor? He's barely even ever in town!
21:30.25Lone_WandererAlthough, if you go by "The government that governs least governs best" (or however that goes), he did a fantastic job.
21:30.29wpss/person/personal/
21:30.37dataw0lfWhat, kinda like Bush taking vacation while he's president?
21:30.41dataw0lfall. the. time?
21:30.49dataw0lfAnd Anderson has done quite a bit for SLC
21:30.58Lone_WandererI don't think he was asking about Bush though...
21:31.11wpsrocky makes me embarrassed to be from Utah
21:31.24wpsthe is nothing wrong with having an opinion and speaking out about it… that's what being American is all about
21:31.24dataw0lfSLC Green program.  Committed y'all to the Kyoto program.  Led y'all through the Olympics.
21:31.43Lone_WandererI thought it was what's his name that fixed the Olympics?
21:31.54wpsbut you have to be careful if you are an elected official in the way that you go about it… you represent the people
21:31.56Lone_Wandereryou know, that other guy.
21:32.04mindjujuMit Romney?
21:32.10macnewboldmitt
21:32.22mindjujui was in Texas at the time of the Olympics
21:32.37Lone_WandererYes, him.
21:33.29macnewboldeven just the fact that rocky kept slc from getting utopia makes me dislike his actions as mayor
21:35.06mindjujuhe did?
21:35.06mindjujuon what grounds?
21:35.06burninI wonder if Hatch was thinking of the people he represents when he introduced the INDUCE act.
21:35.06macnewboldI wasn't so hot on the way he handled the whole main street plaza issue either
21:35.07mindjujuugh, Hatch
21:35.07mindjujusome days i want to kick Hatch in the shin
21:35.07mindjujuninja kick hard
21:35.08burninI just want to vote him out, but every time I try I fail.
21:35.08macnewboldmindjuju: he was swayed by qwest and comcast "committing" to improve their coverage and such, so he claimed that utopia wasn't necessary in slc.
21:35.08dataw0lfburnin: Hatch?  Look to your left and right on that one.
21:35.08burnindataw0lf, ;)
21:35.15mindjujuugh, qwest
21:35.34dataw0lfbut hey, he's one of the few republicans in office not sodomizing boys, so, Hatch has got that going for him
21:35.38dataw0lfhehe
21:36.11dataw0lfI wonder if there's a connection between suppressing homosexuality and same sex child abuse... HMMMMMMMMMMM....
21:36.14dataw0lfhehe
21:37.01dataw0lfhttp://qdb.zzq.org/?780 Yes, I already know.
21:37.21burninnothing I'm sure can't be cured with some relaxing time off in "rehabilitation"
21:38.13dataw0lfyea, and it helps when yer boss is firing all of the federal prosecutors so they're too busy trying to appease your party, instead of handing your arse to you on a platter for said activities.
21:38.41_psychic_no joke
21:38.48mindjujuoh, and Janet Reno didn't can the same offices when Clinton went into office?
21:38.55mindjujucome on, dataw0lf!
21:39.00dataw0lfThey always can previous administrations when they take office
21:39.01mindjujuquit repeating rhetoric!
21:39.02dataw0lfNOT
21:39.03dataw0lfMID
21:39.05dataw0lfTERM
21:39.22dataw0lfTHAT is the problem
21:39.23burninhehe, Reno, when her name comes up all I can think of is her sipping champagne with Kim
21:39.28mindjujuoh, so your saying it didn't have anything to do with say, the Whitewater investigation ?
21:39.28dataw0lfnot that they canned em in the first place, my friend
21:39.40mindjujuit was whitewater related
21:39.44mindjujugo and look it up
21:39.51Lone_WandererNo, they can fire the US attorneys at any time, period.
21:39.57dataw0lfDude, check your political history.  It's a known fact that every administration replaces the old federal prosecutors upon reelection
21:40.02Lone_WandererThe problem is that they said it was performance-based, when they were performing fine.
21:40.05dataw0lfLone_Wanderer: You're right, they can.
21:40.10_psychic_They can, but it doesn't mean its not an abuse.
21:40.20dataw0lfbut few and far between administrations do it midterm for overt political reasons
21:40.23dataw0lfprobably the last was Nixon
21:40.25Lone_WandererIt's not abuse.  It can't be.  They can be fired at any time for any reason.
21:40.27dataw0lfANOTHER republican. HA!
21:40.34mindjujuah dataw0lf
21:40.39dataw0lfalso
21:40.45_psychic_Lone_Wanderer: so firing people for political games isn't an abuse of power?
21:40.49Lone_WandererNo.
21:40.51dataw0lftheir weren't soldiers dying in a ridiculous war over whitewater
21:41.01dataw0lfI think there's a difference between global moral policing and some real estate deals.
21:41.22_psychic_dataw0lf: I thought that was the same issue
21:41.27dataw0lf_psychic_: it IS abuse of power, but it's beholden to the president.
21:41.28Lone_WandererNot when it is entirely within your rights to do so.  The Bush administration has done many things I disagree with, but firing the attorneys in question is not one of them.
21:41.31mindjujuyou know, dataw0lf, before I go back to coding, i just want to say one thing
21:41.40dataw0lfplease do.
21:41.48mindjujuClinton wanted that same war, he sent Madeline albright to Kent state to argue the case for him
21:41.52Lone_WandererWhat they did wrong is to lie about why they fired them.
21:41.58dataw0lfAnd cite your sources when Clinton fired a bunch of federal prosecutors midterm
21:42.07mindjujuthe students were rude to her and she left
21:42.10mindjujubut it was the same case
21:42.14dataw0lfmindjuju: There is a large, large, large difference between appearing like a hawk
21:42.23dataw0lfand actually resorting to hawkish, extreme right wing measures
21:42.35mindjujuWMD in Iraq, Saddam killed thousands with mustard gas
21:42.39dataw0lfthe fact is, he didn't invade Iraq.  Whether or not he appeared to consider it.
21:42.45dataw0lfso that's a non issue
21:42.47Lone_WandererIf I recall correctly, they lied under oath about why the attorneys were fired.
21:42.50mindjujuhe wanted the same thing, just lacked the fortitude to do it
21:43.04dataw0lfoh, so Bush went into Iraq because he's some big, strong soldier-like maN?
21:43.06dataw0lfAHahaha
21:43.15mindjujuno, that's not what i'm saying
21:43.15dataw0lfNice one.
21:43.28dataw0lfClinton was too much of a pussy to go into Iraq, then?
21:43.32dataw0lfthat's what you're saying?
21:43.37mindjujuno, 9/11 happened
21:43.46dataw0lfok, where's the connection between 9/11 and Iraq.
21:43.53dataw0lfno terrorists from iraq attacked us
21:43.57Lone_Wanderer(Hint: there isn't one.)
21:44.00dataw0lfthey were mainly Bush's good friends, the Saudis
21:44.02mindjujuno, they were all from saudi
21:44.05dataw0lfso, uh, rethink it
21:44.12dataw0lfso, uh, why did we invade Iraq again?
21:44.14mindjujuyeah, just said that
21:44.17Lone_WandererWMD's!
21:44.18Lone_WandererOh wait...
21:44.19dataw0lfas a knee-jerk to 9/11?
21:44.21mindjujuhey, cool down a sec
21:44.34dataw0lfor was it really a hegemony conspired plan to gain economic and social control in the Middle East?
21:44.46dataw0lfto elevate the playing field
21:44.48dataw0lffor when we go into Iran
21:45.00mindjujuk, well when your ready to listen to an alternate perspective other than your own, let me know
21:45.02dataw0lfwhich every Pentagon official who has been fired by Bush has said that was his original plan all along
21:45.08dataw0lfmy perspective is RIGHT
21:45.12dataw0lfI might be wrong about global warming
21:45.17dataw0lfI might be wrong, shoot, even about evolution
21:45.23dataw0lfBut I'm not wrong about the war on iraq
21:45.26dataw0lfit isn't based on opinion
21:45.30dataw0lfit's not based on my personal history
21:45.37dataw0lfit's based completely on facts, available to the people.
21:46.08dataw0lfI've been right for the past 3 years in everything I've predicted regarding Iraq
21:46.16dataw0lfAnd I will continue to be right
21:46.41Lone_WandererSo, what's next then?
21:47.18dataw0lfmore Iranian influence (or supposedly more) in the region, sanctions on Iran, and probably a knee-jerk nuclear reaction by the U.S.
21:47.32Lone_WandererYou think we're gonna nuke Iran?
21:47.32dataw0lfbecause that's the only way we can hit their uranium enrichment program
21:47.36dataw0lfyea, probably
21:47.38burninnuclear?
21:47.40dataw0lfor some new bomb that we don't have
21:47.45dataw0lfyet
21:48.03dataw0lfBush wants to end or cripple the Iranian problem before he leaves
21:48.13dataw0lfhe's shown that he doesn't use logic nor diplomacy to reach these ends
21:48.17dataw0lfnuclear is the only way to go
21:48.28dataw0lfmaybe with Rumsfeld gone we won't... but I wouldn't hold your breath
21:48.28burninheh that would do it, he would probably suspend all elections at that point too.
21:48.43dataw0lfif he would just TALK to Iran, we might have a chance
21:48.44Lone_WandererWhat, exactly, is the Iranian problem?  I know they're making noise about the nuclear program there, but is that the *real* issue?
21:48.54dataw0lfthe intelligence is vague LW
21:48.59dataw0lfbut that's never stopped them
21:49.07dataw0lfwe know they are enriching uranium
21:49.15dataw0lfand we know with their current people in power, they will use a nuclear bomb
21:49.17_psychic_intelligence about Iran's nuclear program?
21:49.23dataw0lfright
21:49.30dataw0lfwe have a pretty good idea where the programs are
21:49.46dataw0lfbut with all these kidnappings, they're probably getting the location down so if they do go nuclear, they know they have em
21:49.55dataw0lfthey already have SOCOM and SF in the country, to the north
21:50.11dataw0lfbut a SOCOM or SF infilitration of one of these underground areas is doomed to failure
21:50.16dataw0lfthey're extremely heavily guarded
21:50.20dataw0lfand way, way underground
21:50.26Lone_Wandererwhat's SOCOM?
21:50.28dataw0lfthus, the nuclear option
21:50.33Lone_WandererSF = special forces, right?
21:50.39_psychic_Special Operation COMmand
21:50.47dataw0lfright and right
21:51.13dataw0lfthere've been many in the pentagon who've stated how bullish the current administration is in trying to push a nuclear option
21:51.24dataw0lfsince, really, besides some form of diplomacy, that's our only real option
21:51.36dataw0lfpersonally, I think we need to take more notice of N. Korea, and use diplomacy with Iran
21:51.47dataw0lfI think a strategic first attack on N. Korea would yield more results
21:51.52_psychic_korea seems to be settling down
21:51.54dataw0lfif we did it right, less casualties
21:51.56_psychic_(I thought)
21:51.58Lone_Wandererheh
21:52.01dataw0lfbut we're talking in the 500k 600k range anyways
21:52.06dataw0lfnah
21:52.06_psychic_aren't we in talks with them in Beijing?
21:52.08dataw0lfthey have nukes
21:52.12dataw0lfthey will sell them
21:52.16dataw0lfwhether or not we talk to them
21:52.23Lone_Wandererisn't N. Korea basically ready to collapse, and isn't Iran one of the most powerful states in the middle east?
21:52.37dataw0lfthat's the whole point, isn't it?
21:52.49dataw0lfwhat's a extremely poor country going to do when they're pushed to the brink and have nukes they can sell?
21:53.01dataw0lfprobably sell them to one of the richer more rogue nations
21:53.02dataw0lfi.e.
21:53.02dataw0lfIran
21:53.02Lone_WandererWell, you said that an attack on N. Korea would "yield more results", which seems like a huge understatement to me.
21:53.21Lone_Wandererahh, I see
21:53.31dataw0lfit would yield results as in we could take out most of their infrastructure and perhaps get most of those nukes before they have a chance to actually sell
21:53.34dataw0lfmost, of the nukes
21:53.38dataw0lfprobably be one more left
21:53.39dataw0lfor two
21:53.55Lone_WandererWhich sets the plot just *perfectly* for an action movie.  Cue Jack Bauer.
21:54.49dataw0lfat best guess, Iran is 2 or 3 years away from the bomb
21:55.01dataw0lfbut Bush has never been a military strategic genius
21:55.02dataw0lfso..
21:55.05Lone_Wanderer(computer-type subtitles) December 2007, North Korea.  US Forces have finalized the decomissioning of all of Korea's nuclear weapons.
21:55.07Lone_WandererAll.
21:55.09Lone_WandererBut.
21:55.10Lone_WandererOne.
21:55.22dataw0lfif we do have a nuclear attack in America in the next 3 or 4 years, I'm going to have to completely and utterly blame Bush.
21:55.34dataw0lfand if we don't remove N. Korea from the equation, I say chances are fairly good.
21:55.36Lone_Wanderer(action movie-type music, guys in uniforms running and saying important things, giant video screens)
21:55.43dataw0lfcourse, Israel is a primer targer.
21:55.47dataw0lftarget*
21:55.49dataw0lffor the Iranians
21:55.57_psychic_you'd think they'd nuke the holy land?
21:56.00dataw0lfbut that depends on which Iranian military leaders get that bomb.
21:56.07dataw0lfdude, they've been wanting to nuke Israel forever.
21:56.16dataw0lfand, really, let's face it, an attack on Israel is an attack on America
21:56.25dataw0lfto include neutralizing a large amount of our infrastructure in the region
21:56.33dataw0lfIraq would go up in flames
21:56.39Lone_Wanderer"Captain!  Captain, your presence is requested at..."  (The Captain, a grizzled veteran smoking a cigar next to a No Smoking sign...)
21:56.42dataw0lfso we'd lose maybe 30% military capability
21:56.46dataw0lfthe U.S.
21:56.52dataw0lfso that'd be the SMARTER target for Iran
21:57.05dataw0lfand the Iranians are pretty smart.
21:57.52dataw0lfI think people don't realize how close to the brink we are
21:57.52Lone_WandererSee, it'd be perfect.  Get the Gladiator guy to play the Captain, and maybe Matt Damon to play the Innocent Kid Who Becomes Wise
21:58.12dataw0lfif they did, perhaps they'd realize 'uh, let's hand over Iraq ASAP and recoup our losses'
21:58.28dataw0lfall we're doing now is providing a training ground for everyone who wants to take a potshot at the Americans.
21:58.56Lone_WandererDid you hear about the insurgents getting a copy of the US sniper training manual?
21:59.13dataw0lfin any case, we'll have a draft fairly soon.
21:59.19dataw0lflong term, 4 years.
21:59.25dataw0lfmaybe 1 year if Bush can't keep his pants up.
21:59.39dataw0lfLone_Wanderer: that's not surprising.
21:59.45_psychic_so, nukes in 3, draft within 4, with Israel a burning wasteland?
21:59.52dataw0lfmaybe nukes
21:59.54dataw0lfnot necessarily
22:00.00dataw0lfbut it's heading toward the inevitable, certainly.
22:00.21dataw0lfif Bush can get a proper Secretary of State and start actually practicing diplomacy, we can reverse
22:00.29dataw0lfor if they can find an alternative way to deter Iran
22:00.36dataw0lfI don't really see it beyond diplomacy though
22:01.58Lone_Wandererdataw0lf: Did you ever read Cryptonomicon?
22:02.49dataw0lfof course
22:02.56Lone_WandererIf Iran *did* nuke Israel, just out of the blue
22:03.11Lone_Wanderersay they got a nuke a year earlier than we thought they could, and used it immediately
22:03.25Lone_Wandererwhat would the most likely US response be?
22:03.34dataw0lfIran would be nuked
22:03.44dataw0lfIsraelis have nukes, the U.S. wouldn't even have to respond, overtly
22:03.54Lone_Wandererahh
22:04.20dataw0lfIran is smarter than just a nuke and leave strategy.
22:04.22Lone_WandererSurely Iran knows that Israel has nukes.  Wouldn't it just turn into a cold war in the desert?
22:04.24dataw0lfthey'd approach Syria
22:04.26dataw0lfand Hezbollah
22:04.32dataw0lfWW3 for sure
22:04.57dataw0lfI honestly don't have too much knowledge of exactly what type of attack Iran would perpetrate
22:05.14dataw0lfbut the SCUDs they have, with support from other regions, they could probably cripple Israel if they did it right.
22:05.36_psychic_~lart Iran
22:05.58dataw0lfAl-Qaida, kinda left in the cold by Iran and Hezbollah for now, would probably approach, then you'd see numerous activated sleeper cells in America
22:06.09dataw0lfit'd be interesting.
22:07.39dataw0lfsee, the thing is, if we can hold off the current Iranian regime for 4 or 5 years, you'll probably see huge changes
22:07.51dataw0lfthe people of Iran are fairly liberal, and WERE sympathetic to the U.S.
22:08.03dataw0lfwe just need to get over this cowboy mentality where we can't be beat.
22:08.06dataw0lfbecause we can be beat
22:08.22dataw0lfespecially with our current military
22:12.39dataw0lfnot saying we're going to be invaded anytime soon
22:12.55dataw0lfbut a war with Iran would leave us completely vulnerable both militarily, and economically.
22:13.09dataw0lfthe problem is that major weapons / war machine companies have coalesced
22:13.18dataw0lfit isn't like WW2, where you had every available company doing whatever they could
22:13.31dataw0lfspecific companies have contracts with our government
22:13.34dataw0lfthey'll make a bunch of money
22:13.40dataw0lfbut the rest of the country would die
22:14.01dataw0lfeconomically, the U.S. just isn't ready for a real war.
22:16.25dataw0lfpersonally, I think we've gone too far, and we're going to fall.  I really hope I'm wrong, I love the U.S.  But I just don't see us recovering from what we've gotten ourselves into.
22:19.33dataw0lfhttp://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/I/IRAQ_POLL?SITE=TXABI&SECTION=HOME
22:19.54dataw0lf"Fewer than half in the country, 42 percent, said that life in Iraq now is better than it was under Saddam Hussein, the late dictator accused of murdering tens of thousands during a brutal regime."
22:19.58dataw0lfheh
22:20.18_psychic_you were over there, right?
22:20.27dataw0lfyes.
22:20.42_psychic_was that your impression?
22:20.48dataw0lfoverwhelmingly.
22:21.08_psychic_uh
22:21.13_psychic_overwhelmingly 42%?
22:21.25dataw0lfPeople want to say that the media is putting a spin on things to make the war worse, but, personally, I think that they've been sugarcoating it.
22:21.43dataw0lffrom what I experienced over there, and I was all over Iraq, I'd say it was less than that, and that was in mid 2004.
22:21.56dataw0lfdowntown Baghdad, yea, they usually cheered us
22:22.05dataw0lfbut man once you leave that tiny safe zone, it's over.
22:23.00dataw0lfwe got a majority of positive reactions maybe a month, two months after the invasion.
22:23.38dataw0lfand even then you couldn't go down the street without getting rocks thrown at you.
22:24.27Lone_WandererI'm assuming that if someone throws a rock at you, you just ignore them, right?
22:24.54dataw0lfyes.
22:25.08dataw0lfwhich is kinda scary, since you don't know when bullets are going to be following the rocks.
22:27.47dataw0lfheh, Israel to get their first Hooters.
22:27.52dataw0lfwhy is that news?
22:28.07dataw0lfJerusalem has more prostitutes and tattoo parlors than any other place I've been.
22:28.38Lone_WandererWhat part of Chicago did you grow up in again? :p
22:29.02dataw0lfpfft, dude, I'm talking tattoo parlor, tattoo parlor, tattoo parlor, whorehouse, whorehouse, tattoo parlor, etc
22:29.23dataw0lfChicago is more like pawn shop, pawn shop, 7/11, tattoo parlor, crackhouse, pawn shop, etc
22:29.49Lone_WandererGood place to find a fence I take it.
22:30.06dataw0lfhow would _I_ know that? >_>
22:30.20_psychic_http://wtfcnn.blogspot.com/
22:30.22Lone_WandererOh, I'm sure you don't even know what I'm talking about ^_^
22:31.20dataw0lfyes, uh, they have many fences, uh, chainlink, white picket, y'know
22:31.23dataw0lf>_>
22:31.24dataw0lf<_<
22:35.05Lone_WandererI've been having trouble finding one.  I should post a craigslist ad.
22:46.59mgearyhoo-boy
22:56.18PoeticIntensityHey macnewbold....
22:56.35PoeticIntensityWould you mind giving me an example of how you use your REST server?  
22:56.52PoeticIntensityAlso... what language is it written in?
22:57.08PoeticIntensityor you, dataw0lf...
22:57.58PoeticIntensityIt seems that you're doing stuff with REST as well..
22:58.13PoeticIntensityI'm having a hard time wrapping my head around what exactly needs to be written...
22:58.25PoeticIntensitysince, it seems, no standards even exist for REST.
22:58.42PoeticIntensitybah...
22:58.45PoeticIntensity~lart REST
23:00.37macnewboldrest is really simple, that's why it is so nice
23:00.56PoeticIntensitybah.... I'm having issues with understanding how it works..
23:01.01macnewboldif I were to write a rest server for some api, it would be apache + a php script
23:01.22macnewbolda rest client can be anything that can send an http POST
23:01.46macnewboldyou just need to be able to create a request (something like var=value&var2=val2&var3=val3) and send it (http POST)
23:02.00macnewboldand get the response back and do something with it
23:02.23macnewboldit might return html, xml, plain text, csv, or even somethig that looks a lot like the request
23:02.39macnewboldif I were making a client in PHP, I'd use curl to do it
23:02.50macnewboldon the command line, I'd use curl or wget probably
23:03.23PoeticIntensity........
23:03.31PoeticIntensityI guess my question is this:
23:04.01PoeticIntensityIf someone wants to send me an XML file, .... they'd send the file as part of the POST?
23:04.25PoeticIntensityeven if the file is like..... 10 megs?
23:04.45PoeticIntensitymaybe I'm getting the whole gist of REST out of context for what it's intended to be used for.
23:04.50macnewboldyeah, that could work
23:05.10PoeticIntensityI just don't see HTTP as being an efficient tool for that, however.... I could be *completely* off base.
23:05.12macnewboldyou could either post the XML instead of posting a normal post request (var=value&var2=val2&var3=val3) as long as your server could interpret the raw post string
23:05.23macnewboldor you could encode the xml file as a html form post with a file upload
23:05.45macnewboldthe encoding type would be multipart/form-data and I'm sure the specs are out there
23:07.08macnewboldthe nice thing about http is it is a well defined and often implemented standard that almost anything (cell phones even) can implement
23:07.20macnewboldand you can set up a REST api that you can use through a normal web form even
23:07.31macnewboldjust like you can do it with a "client" app that meets your api
23:07.45macnewboldREST is more of a methodology than a standard of some kind
23:08.39macnewboldit basically says - just use http for the transport, and then you can focus on the important stuff instead of coding up parsers and generators for some complex standard you don't really care about
23:08.57macnewboldi.e. if you don't need XML, don't bother to use it
23:09.14macnewboldif you want to use plain-text requests, go for it
23:09.19macnewboldif you want to give them more structure, that's fine too
23:11.16*** join/#uphpu Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@cg.dsl.xmission.com)
23:11.16*** mode/#UPHPU [+v Lone_Wanderer] by ChanServ
23:11.30timinatorlater guys
23:11.34PoeticIntensitychao.
23:11.54Lone_WandererAu revoir.
23:12.04Lone_Wanderer~lart dumb girls
23:12.12PoeticIntensitythank you, macnewbold.
23:13.00PoeticIntensitygood stuff....  I *think* I understand.... however, with all that said, why not just build a normal form that can handle an HTTP file-upload, upload the file, and parse it with a PHP script?
23:13.24PoeticIntensitymaybe it's because..... through that medium, the sender isn't expecting a response?
23:13.34PoeticIntensitywith REST, they can receive a response package......?
23:15.27Lone_WandererThat'd be way too simple.
23:15.37PoeticIntensity.....?
23:15.50Lone_WandererIf we did things that way, common folks might start thinking that they understand web development, and we'd all be out of jobs!
23:15.57PoeticIntensityheh...
23:16.02Lone_Wanderer;)
23:16.07PoeticIntensityobfuscation is *THE* way!
23:16.31Lone_WandererWhenever something starts becoming well understood, we create another acronym and another layer of "abstraction" (obfuscation)
23:16.51PoeticIntensityheh.... yeah.
23:16.54PoeticIntensityer somthin'.
23:17.14Lone_Wandererand because only large firms with money to burn can afford to perpetually educate their people to keep them buzzword compliant, this cycle guarantees that those who are currently in power will stay in power.
23:17.14PoeticIntensityI'm beginning to think that REST or SOAP probably isn't necessary for this particular application.
23:17.22Lone_WandererNow where did I put my tinfoil hat?
23:17.50Lone_WandererIt probably isn't.  But I don't know what you're doing so I can't really say either way.
23:19.41PoeticIntensityheh... yeah.
23:19.53PoeticIntensitygah....
23:20.00PoeticIntensity*sigh*...
23:20.17PoeticIntensitythe more I think about it, the more I realize I can do *everything* REST can with a simple web form.
23:20.32PoeticIntensityinteresting, interesting, interesting...
23:20.43mgearyi'm kind of scared to even contemplate this, but i was just asked if it's possible to get a database connection in PHP to a Filemaker Pro database. I don't suppose anyone knows of something offhand? I suspect there's probably an odbc bridge somewhere out there...
23:21.16Lone_WandererIf Filemaker Pro supports ODBC, then yes.
23:21.22PoeticIntensityagh... the memories...... or.....
23:21.23PoeticIntensitynightmares.
23:21.26mgearyyeah
23:21.27Lone_WandererOr, if you're willing to write the connection in C and then integrate it into PHP...
23:22.49Lone_WandererMy usual response to that kind of request is "I can do anything, if you're willing to pay enough and wait long enough."
23:26.48mgearyyeah
23:27.03mgearythat's pretty much where it's at. we'll see if they *really* need it
23:27.14mgearythe better solution, of course, is to rebuild your app as a web app
23:27.33mgearyFileMaker Pro is so 1993
23:28.40Lone_WandererCan FMP export in CSV or something?
23:35.07mgearyyeah
23:35.31mgearybut there's an ongoing synchronization need. was just reading, apparently the FMP server has a http/xml api
23:35.44mgearyso that may work
23:36.30mgearyMySQL question: i'm currently doing a report where i join a table to itself to find duplicate values
23:36.52Lone_Wanderersounds hot
23:37.05mgearybut now the client wants each non-unique instance to be represented as it's own row (previously it would output a line for each pair/collision)
23:37.26Lone_WandererMy initial overwhelming reaction is "why do they care?"
23:37.30mgearyso, for example, if i have 3 invoices with the same invoice number, i'm currently getting 2 rows: A:B, and A:C
23:37.38mgearyclient wants 3 rows: A,B,C
23:37.51Lone_WandererSo long as the invoices come out right, they shouldn't be concerned with how it looks to the program.
23:38.16mgearywell, true, but you get my point. i want to restructure my query
23:38.26Lone_Wandererok
23:39.06mgearyi'm currently getting invoice_a.invoice_amount, invoice_b.invoice_amount and i'm joining the two on invoice_a.invoice_number = invoice_b.invoice_number
23:39.46mgearyi guess i could do a subquery
23:40.22mgearybut that seems sloppy. mysql'd be forced to do a lot of subqueries. one for each unique invoice #
23:40.30PoeticIntensitywhat about invoice_c?
23:40.51PoeticIntensitythat isn't even considered in the query..... I'm probably missing something.
23:41.12mgearysorry, bad re-use of "a" and "b"
23:41.38mgearylet's assume there are 3 invoices with the same #, invoice A, invoice B, and invoice C
23:41.42PoeticIntensityyup.
23:41.44PoeticIntensitysame table?
23:41.59mgearythere is one invoice table, that i am aliasing into, say, invoices_x and invoices_y
23:42.00mgearyright
23:42.10PoeticIntensityk
23:42.38mgearyso currently, my query returns two rows, because there are 2 matches: A to B and A to C
23:42.58mgearyA is coming from invoices_x and B and C are both coming from invoices_y
23:43.01PoeticIntensityselect whatever from invoice_table where invoice_number = #
23:43.11mgearywell yeah, if i want to do a huge loop
23:43.12PoeticIntensityprobably oversimplifying it.
23:43.16mgearyi'm trying to pull this off in one query
23:43.26PoeticIntensitygotcha.
23:43.49mgearywhat's a good pastebin to use?
23:44.14PoeticIntensityno idea, man.
23:44.18PoeticIntensityI never use em'...
23:44.24mgearyhttp://dpaste.com/7110/
23:44.25PoeticIntensityI'm kinda new to this whole IRC thing.
23:44.27PoeticIntensityk
23:44.29mgearyheh
23:44.42PoeticIntensitygot it.
23:44.58mgearyworks like a charm, but basically i now need to do something different
23:45.15mgearynow i need to do:
23:45.25mgearyhmm. i know
23:45.31mgearyoh oh
23:45.41mgearyi got something. not using joins, but using group by
23:45.50mgearyhmm
23:45.54PoeticIntensity.... first question:
23:46.00PoeticIntensitywhy are you joining a table to itself?
23:46.09mgearyto identify duplicates
23:46.10PoeticIntensityI've never seen that before...
23:46.12mgearyit's a neat trick :)
23:46.14PoeticIntensityah.
23:46.26PoeticIntensityeeeeenteresting.
23:46.53PoeticIntensityDISTINCT?
23:47.01PoeticIntensitythat has rid me of duplicate rows....
23:47.06PoeticIntensitywith quite the success-rate.
23:47.25mgearyyeah, but that won't give me the invoices.id for the duplicates. that will just tell me which unique set exists
23:47.34mgearyi need the invoice detail data
23:47.45PoeticIntensityso they aren't *exact* duplicates...
23:47.49mgearyright
23:47.56PoeticIntensityDISTINCT no workie.....
23:47.57mgearyi could do a COUNT(*) .... group by invoices.invoice_number
23:48.03mgearythat'd tell me how *many* of each there is
23:48.24mgearyand i guess from there i could loop through each set and pull the details. it blows my single-query approach, but it might be the most straightforward
23:48.38mgearyanyway, i've gotta run. later yall
23:48.45*** part/#uphpu mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49)
23:48.46PoeticIntensitychao...
23:53.00mindjujuif anybody here likes breakbeats, di.fm has finally started to play some good stuff
23:55.59dataw0lfyea, I like breakbeats
23:56.07dataw0lfWHEN THEY'RE 6 FEET UNDER THE GROUND!
23:56.09dataw0lfHA!
23:56.10dataw0lf>_>
23:56.11dataw0lf<_<
23:56.15mindjujupsh
23:56.27Lone_Wanderermindjuju: hey, did you ever hear a song that's got... oh dangit, I forgot the name of the song now
23:57.04Lone_WandererAnyway, it had Running Man clips, and a song by the Cocteau Twins
23:57.12mindjujubreakbeats tons better than RATM
23:57.13Lone_WandererDid I dream / You dreamed about me
23:57.17Lone_WandererIt's time to start Running!
23:57.20dataw0lfmindjuju: maybe in an alternate universe
23:57.30dataw0lfwith cows as primary lifeform
23:57.31mindjujuand this universe too
23:57.40dataw0lfyou think
23:57.42dataw0lfbut you be wrong
23:57.57mindjujuheh
23:58.02PoeticIntensityI'm outta here.
23:58.49mindjujuk, yeah, your right, sounds good that way
23:59.15dataw0lfeaaaaaaaaaaaagh
23:59.31dataw0lfyou, sir, are not allowed to use this
23:59.34dataw0lfbut I must be going
23:59.42mindjujucya dataw0lf
23:59.57Lone_WandererHow do I listen to stuff on di?

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