| 00:05.55 | beandog | is there anyway to comment out a CSS line besides /* */ |
| 00:06.13 | thebigdog | doesnt // work |
| 00:06.35 | beandog | nope |
| 00:06.43 | beandog | maybe |
| 00:06.43 | dataw0lf | only /* */ works |
| 00:06.44 | beandog | jerk. |
| 00:07.04 | beandog | oh, whoops |
| 00:07.12 | beandog | I thought it did for a second. Nope // doesnt work |
| 00:07.38 | beandog | make me use shortcuts |
| 00:08.22 | beandog | what does a # mean in front of a CSS definition |
| 00:08.29 | macnewbold | it is an id |
| 00:08.36 | macnewbold | as opposed to a . for a class |
| 00:10.01 | beandog | intresante. |
| 00:10.02 | beandog | thanks |
| 00:14.54 | thebigdog | can you use <!-- --> |
| 00:15.04 | dataw0lf | no. |
| 00:15.22 | macnewbold | in css? what crack pipe have you been tokin? |
| 00:15.31 | macnewbold | ~educate thebigdog |
| 00:15.32 | jbot | ACTION teaches thebigdog the basics, including how to RTM. |
| 00:15.40 | macnewbold | ~school thebigdog |
| 00:15.41 | jbot | ACTION slaps thebigdog around, robs'm, then reminds'm to be thankfully for the education. |
| 00:15.42 | macnewbold | ~teach thebigdog |
| 00:16.08 | thebigdog | i think you can use <% %> |
| 00:16.11 | thebigdog | :) |
| 00:16.16 | macnewbold | just kidding, it's an honest mistake... its lame that they don't have comment syntaxes that make sense |
| 00:16.54 | thebigdog | who puts comments in their code anyways |
| 00:17.02 | dataw0lf | you should give thebigdog a gradefix account so he can study CSS better.... oooooh, burn |
| 00:17.14 | thebigdog | ~pimpslap dataw0lf |
| 00:17.15 | jbot | thebigdog pimpslaps dataw0lf. ouch! |
| 00:17.16 | dataw0lf | thebigdog: Perl programmers |
| 00:17.32 | thebigdog | im a perl monger |
| 00:18.17 | dataw0lf | you're a monger of something alright.... |
| 00:18.26 | beandog | heh |
| 00:18.35 | thebigdog | i got you monger right here |
| 00:18.42 | dataw0lf | for me?! |
| 00:18.51 | thebigdog | ~crack dataw0lf |
| 00:18.53 | jbot | ACTION cracks dataw0lf 's rock in half and then proceeds to shatter the halves into tiny pieces |
| 00:19.36 | dataw0lf | in a couple days you'll start compulsively making fun of Perl, Gentoo, and Java.... and there's NO CURE |
| 00:19.59 | macnewbold | except The Cure, cause they're cool |
| 00:20.04 | dataw0lf | ya cept the cure |
| 00:20.19 | macnewbold | but that doesn't fix the problem |
| 00:20.28 | macnewbold | ~zippy |
| 00:20.32 | macnewbold | ~confuse thebigdog |
| 00:20.33 | jbot | yes them was their hamster yesterday ? |
| 00:20.41 | dataw0lf | beandog: really? I thought it was quite apt |
| 00:20.53 | dataw0lf | APT! GET IT?!?! |
| 00:20.56 | dataw0lf | LIKE DEBIAN?!?! |
| 00:20.57 | dataw0lf | .... |
| 00:20.59 | beandog | ~rimshot |
| 00:21.00 | jbot | ch-ch-chhh |
| 00:34.09 | mindjuju | ~rlart |
| 00:35.19 | beandog | heh |
| 00:35.40 | bradym | ouch.... |
| 00:35.46 | bradym | ~rlart |
| 00:36.16 | bradym | hmmm.. not quite what i had in mind |
| 00:36.51 | mindjuju | yeah, it's a bummer when that happens |
| 00:39.46 | bradym | let's try again |
| 00:39.49 | bradym | ~rlart |
| 00:39.50 | mgeary | ~insult client who have absolutely no clue |
| 00:40.52 | mindjuju | heh |
| 00:46.17 | jsmith | Anybody know of some easy/slick PHP code for generating an RSS feed from a database |
| 00:46.27 | jsmith | I really don't feel like re-inventing that particular wheel tonight |
| 00:47.15 | dataw0lf | anybody who's real quick with photoshop or the gimp want to make me a new hacker gotchi? :) |
| 00:47.18 | dataw0lf | I will pay in BLOOD |
| 00:50.20 | *** part/#uphpu bradym (n=bradym@bradym.agsci.usu.edu) |
| 00:51.13 | mindjuju | dataw0lf, like a captcha? what's a gotchi ? |
| 00:51.28 | thebigdog | tamagotchi |
| 00:51.43 | mindjuju | jsmith, there should be an RSS feed generator on uphpu |
| 00:51.51 | jsmith | Oh? |
| 00:51.56 | mindjuju | cole joplin gave a meet on using PHP and RSS and flash |
| 00:51.57 | jsmith | I found one that looks pretty slick |
| 00:52.12 | jsmith | self-contained, LGPL, and lots of good examples |
| 00:54.27 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: like, a hackergotchi is the face avatars you see on open source projects |
| 00:54.31 | dataw0lf | planetgnome and the like |
| 00:55.14 | jsmith | dataw0lf: Where do you have pictures of your ugly mug? |
| 00:55.49 | dataw0lf | couple porn sites |
| 00:55.54 | dataw0lf | criminal registry |
| 00:55.55 | dataw0lf | y'know |
| 00:55.57 | dataw0lf | things like that |
| 00:56.34 | dataw0lf | http://stderr.ws/media/dump/yearightbuddy.jpg |
| 00:56.40 | dataw0lf | wouldn't that make the perfect hackergotchi, though? |
| 00:58.22 | dataw0lf | k, I need a dropshadow too... |
| 00:58.23 | dataw0lf | :\ |
| 00:58.47 | dataw0lf | http://wouterverhelst.livejournal.com/21322.html |
| 00:58.53 | dataw0lf | tut on it mindjuju ^^ |
| 00:59.02 | dataw0lf | I'm just no good with the gimp nor photoshop whatsoever |
| 01:00.26 | thebigdog | i have your head but no shadow |
| 01:00.37 | dataw0lf | gimp? |
| 01:00.41 | thebigdog | y |
| 01:00.52 | dataw0lf | read that livejournal, it says how to do it |
| 01:04.38 | thebigdog | lol |
| 01:04.44 | thebigdog | this looks great |
| 01:04.47 | dataw0lf | YES! |
| 01:04.49 | dataw0lf | lemme see |
| 01:04.54 | thebigdog | one sec |
| 01:06.54 | *** join/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@c-67-182-239-240.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:06.55 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o Utah_Dave] by ChanServ |
| 01:07.36 | thebigdog | what format...png? |
| 01:11.02 | dataw0lf | yea, that'll do, sir, that'll do. |
| 01:11.36 | thebigdog | can i get a drum roll |
| 01:11.38 | thebigdog | http://www.thebigdog.biz/yearightbuddygotchi.jpg |
| 01:11.46 | thebigdog | for the first time i think i did ok |
| 01:12.48 | dataw0lf | yay! |
| 01:12.57 | dataw0lf | is that transparent sir? |
| 01:13.07 | thebigdog | i dont think so |
| 01:13.13 | dataw0lf | DAMN YOU TO HELL! |
| 01:13.15 | mgeary | jpegs don't support transparency |
| 01:13.16 | dataw0lf | just kidding, thanks dude! |
| 01:13.19 | mgeary | make it a png |
| 01:13.37 | mgeary | i'm outta here. later folks |
| 01:13.39 | *** part/#uphpu mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 01:13.42 | dataw0lf | cya |
| 01:13.43 | dataw0lf | dang it |
| 01:13.51 | thebigdog | i could do it tons better |
| 01:13.56 | thebigdog | that took me like 10 mintues |
| 01:14.06 | dataw0lf | dude, you should make me the sweetest ever hackergotchi |
| 01:14.10 | dataw0lf | in trade, I shall give you |
| 01:14.16 | dataw0lf | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:14.22 | dataw0lf | yea, that right there... nothing :\ |
| 01:14.36 | dataw0lf | unless you want to play paintball when I come down, then I can let you borrow one of my markers and I'll give you a bunch of welts |
| 01:14.36 | thebigdog | that is all that you get from the bigdog |
| 01:14.44 | dataw0lf | :) |
| 01:15.01 | thebigdog | it cropped the chin off though |
| 01:15.18 | thebigdog | the hair cracks me up |
| 01:15.40 | dataw0lf | :D |
| 01:15.46 | dataw0lf | you should see my hair today |
| 01:15.55 | dataw0lf | I obsessively rub my hands through my hair while programming |
| 01:16.11 | dataw0lf | and my hair has no obvious calics (sp?), it's everywhere |
| 01:16.24 | dataw0lf | so I usually end up looking like someone who just got blown up, in a cartoon |
| 01:16.28 | com4 | cowlick |
| 01:16.39 | dataw0lf | thanks com4 |
| 01:16.42 | dataw0lf | cowlick |
| 01:16.52 | dataw0lf | of all the words to misspell... |
| 01:16.58 | mindjuju | dataw0lf, looks like thebigdog 's got me beat, but here's mine |
| 01:16.59 | mindjuju | http://www.billgood.com/vvilla/gotchi.png |
| 01:17.16 | thebigdog | that looks good mindjuju |
| 01:17.17 | mindjuju | i liked the headphones so i left them |
| 01:17.20 | dataw0lf | that's a pretty good one too |
| 01:17.35 | thebigdog | looks real good |
| 01:17.55 | dataw0lf | jeez, he really caught the essence of my cowlick |
| 01:18.07 | thebigdog | yeah a great deal of it |
| 01:18.11 | dataw0lf | I look kinda ridiculous |
| 01:18.14 | dataw0lf | but, obviously, in a good way |
| 01:18.23 | thebigdog | kinda = understatement |
| 01:18.31 | dataw0lf | true |
| 01:18.33 | dataw0lf | I look REALLY good |
| 01:19.27 | dataw0lf | you can't give spans a z-index, can you |
| 01:22.36 | jsmith | Why not? |
| 01:23.40 | dataw0lf | dunno |
| 01:23.56 | dataw0lf | because span isn't a logical division? |
| 01:24.06 | jsmith | I swore I did it like 6 years ago. |
| 01:24.14 | dataw0lf | I'm having trouble with it |
| 01:24.15 | jsmith | But it could have been a div... it's been *way* too long |
| 01:25.34 | *** join/#uphpu burnin (n=burnin@hongkong.machinage.com) |
| 01:29.17 | mindjuju | holy crap!!! |
| 01:29.18 | mindjuju | For those customers still running products like Windows 2000, Exchange 2000 or the earlier Exchange 5.5, which are no longer in Microsoft mainstream support and are thus not covered under standard support agreements, the situation is even more dire, as it will cost them $4,000 for all the DST updates. |
| 01:29.29 | mindjuju | http://www.eweek.com/article2/0%2C1895%2C2102230%2C00.asp |
| 01:29.57 | mindjuju | so much for MS's arguments about not using OSS, seems like they said there was no accountability and nobody around to help when you really needed it |
| 01:30.50 | dataw0lf | ahhhh, this champagne is getting me drunk! |
| 01:38.35 | mindjuju | k, gents, i'm out for an early and well deserved weekend |
| 01:39.14 | dataw0lf | http://stderr.ws/ ! |
| 01:39.46 | mindjuju | i'm glad you liked it dataw0lf |
| 01:39.57 | mindjuju | heh |
| 01:40.58 | dataw0lf | :D |
| 01:47.55 | jsmith | invalid syntax (models.py, line 12) |
| 01:48.17 | jsmith | Nice... throw Python errors at your visitors... classy! |
| 01:48.33 | beandog | heh |
| 01:49.12 | jsmith | Oh, here's the problem... |
| 01:49.17 | jsmith | ENABLE_PSYCO False |
| 01:49.30 | jsmith | You forgot to turn on the Pyshco setting! |
| 01:51.29 | dataw0lf | dude, I have no idea where the hell that error is occuring from |
| 01:51.37 | dataw0lf | it just randomly comes on |
| 01:51.43 | dataw0lf | I think it may have something to do with debug mode |
| 01:51.45 | dataw0lf | but I'm unsure |
| 01:59.54 | Utah_Dave | probably has something to do with using Python instead of PHP. |
| 02:03.54 | dataw0lf | >:( |
| 02:05.10 | Utah_Dave | :) |
| 02:06.16 | dataw0lf | you don't want to be bitten by a w0lf |
| 02:06.20 | dataw0lf | much less a DATAw0lf |
| 02:06.56 | Utah_Dave | Us Utahns hunted wolves to extinction here |
| 02:09.47 | dataw0lf | we can cross borders |
| 02:10.21 | Utah_Dave | true, they have been spotted here again, I think |
| 02:12.59 | *** part/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@c-67-182-239-240.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:18.02 | jsmith | dataw0lf: At the bottom of the page: "You're seeing this error because you have DEBUG = True in your Django settings file. Change that to False, and Django will display a standard 500 page." |
| 02:18.47 | dataw0lf | I figured out the problem |
| 02:18.59 | dataw0lf | I accidentally entered a space in one of my models when adding RSS capabilities |
| 02:19.08 | dataw0lf | should be fine now |
| 03:22.35 | *** join/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@c-67-182-239-240.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:22.35 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o Utah_Dave] by ChanServ |
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| 14:40.52 | timinator | mornin' guys |
| 14:54.30 | herlo | monin timinator |
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| 15:51.40 | dataw0lf | GOOD MORNING |
| 15:51.42 | dataw0lf | err |
| 15:51.44 | dataw0lf | g'morning |
| 15:51.46 | dataw0lf | stupid caps |
| 15:55.57 | _psychic__ | OMG PONIES |
| 15:55.57 | _psychic__ | oops |
| 15:56.13 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v _psychic_] by ChanServ |
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| 16:02.14 | dataw0lf | http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/G/GUATEMALA_BUSH_PURIFICATION?SITE=INEVA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT |
| 16:02.17 | dataw0lf | hehehe |
| 16:06.17 | dataw0lf | hey, you guys hear the news about Gingrich? |
| 16:07.15 | dataw0lf | hee hee hee |
| 16:07.48 | _psychic_ | Anyone want to help me win a Java vs. PHP argument with a client? Maybe this is the wrong channel for this.... ;) |
| 16:08.00 | dataw0lf | ... |
| 16:08.03 | dataw0lf | what's the argument? |
| 16:08.10 | _psychic_ | I'm formulating it now |
| 16:08.17 | _psychic_ | (formally, at least) |
| 16:08.17 | dataw0lf | the basis, I mean. |
| 16:08.21 | _psychic_ | this is for web development |
| 16:08.24 | _psychic_ | agility |
| 16:08.33 | _psychic_ | scalability |
| 16:08.38 | dataw0lf | you're arguing for or against Java? |
| 16:08.41 | _psychic_ | maybe some case studies |
| 16:09.18 | dataw0lf | well, Java is certainly more scalable than PHP |
| 16:09.29 | _psychic_ | I disagree |
| 16:09.43 | dataw0lf | how so? |
| 16:10.40 | _psychic_ | Java seems like it tries to put a stateful model on a stateless system (the web). |
| 16:10.55 | _psychic_ | One reason the web is stateless is because of scaling reasons. |
| 16:11.05 | _psychic_ | PHP is more stateless, and thus, more scalable. |
| 16:11.07 | _psychic_ | (in a nutshell) |
| 16:11.29 | dataw0lf | So, just because PHP is stateless, it's more scalable? |
| 16:11.36 | _psychic_ | its one reason |
| 16:11.36 | dataw0lf | Java provides a stateless system for web development. |
| 16:11.57 | *** join/#uphpu mgeary_ (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 16:11.59 | _psychic_ | mmmmno.... aren't servlets and the like stateless? |
| 16:12.22 | *** part/#uphpu mgeary_ (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 16:12.26 | _psychic_ | Java is a memory hog |
| 16:12.45 | *** join/#uphpu mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 16:12.46 | dataw0lf | PHP has many more performance problems than Java, when scaling. |
| 16:13.00 | mgeary | whew. troubles getting on this morning |
| 16:13.06 | _psychic_ | isn't digg on php? |
| 16:13.10 | mgeary | hi folks |
| 16:13.31 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: like what? |
| 16:14.18 | dataw0lf | jeez, just about everything |
| 16:14.24 | dataw0lf | unless you're using FastCGI or something. |
| 16:14.31 | mgeary | here's a case study on 10,000 active db connections: http://devzone.zend.com/node/view/id/915 |
| 16:14.34 | bradym | I'd have to agree that Java is more scalable -- Java was built for large, scalable apps.. PHP was built for simple stuff |
| 16:14.35 | _psychic_ | http://www.onjava.com/pub/a/onjava/2003/10/15/php_scalability.html |
| 16:14.43 | _psychic_ | people say that |
| 16:14.48 | _psychic_ | but I still haven't heard why they do |
| 16:14.50 | _psychic_ | PHP scales |
| 16:14.52 | bradym | that being said, I don't know Java, and never plan to learn it ;) |
| 16:15.17 | _psychic_ | Java takes twice as long to write, and in the end, its not significantly different than PHP in terms of scalability. |
| 16:15.37 | mgeary | i've heard smart people say that scalability shouldn't be a factor of the language, but the deployment architecture. |
| 16:16.07 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: PHP's WHOLE STRUCTURE isn't scalable, what are you talking about |
| 16:16.11 | dataw0lf | No naming conventions for functions |
| 16:16.14 | dataw0lf | No namespaces |
| 16:16.26 | dataw0lf | this is a significant problem when you get an app that approaches a certain level of complexity |
| 16:16.35 | _psychic_ | what does that have to do with scaling |
| 16:16.47 | mgeary | dataw0lf: so you're talking about scaling up to a large, complex application |
| 16:16.56 | dataw0lf | I'm talking about both |
| 16:17.01 | mgeary | not about a scaling up to serving x-million hits a day |
| 16:17.01 | dataw0lf | They're both intertwined |
| 16:17.07 | mgeary | not necessarily |
| 16:17.12 | dataw0lf | if you get more people to your site, you're going to add complexity, almost always |
| 16:17.21 | dataw0lf | whether it's in security |
| 16:17.22 | dataw0lf | tracking |
| 16:17.23 | dataw0lf | etc |
| 16:17.29 | dataw0lf | I'm talking commercial applications here. |
| 16:17.45 | _psychic_ | I'm talking about the ability for the language to handle lots of requests |
| 16:18.02 | mgeary | right. one is a factor of your deployment, the other is a factor of your programming language/style |
| 16:18.08 | _psychic_ | And if you're going to argue that Java is faster to develop with, we're just going to have to agree to disagree |
| 16:18.12 | _psychic_ | because that's insane |
| 16:18.22 | mgeary | i agree that they can be interrelated, but they are not inseparably connected |
| 16:18.24 | dataw0lf | if you have some simple, no brainer site, it doesn't really matter what language you use |
| 16:18.30 | dataw0lf | it matters much more on how you design the application |
| 16:18.48 | dataw0lf | who would ever argue that Java is faster to develop in than almost anything? |
| 16:18.59 | dataw0lf | C? Assembly? that's about it |
| 16:19.27 | dataw0lf | I'm not arguing FOR Java here. I think it's a ridiculous language. But PHP is not a proper solution to anything larger than mid level sites, if that. |
| 16:19.30 | _psychic_ | so, I'm still not seeing how Java is inherently more scalable than php |
| 16:19.41 | _psychic_ | there are big sites running php |
| 16:19.43 | mgeary | furthermore, i believe that Java is sometimes said to be more scalable simply because there is more infrastructure already present. |
| 16:19.45 | _psychic_ | sites that take down other sites |
| 16:19.56 | _psychic_ | mgeary: which ADDS to the overhead |
| 16:20.04 | _psychic_ | which makes it less scalable, if anything |
| 16:20.17 | dataw0lf | if it only adds to the overhead ONCE, it has nothing to do with scaling. |
| 16:20.29 | dataw0lf | in fact, it scales better on larger sites, then. |
| 16:21.49 | dataw0lf | also, the argument that 'big sites run on php' is ridiculous. |
| 16:21.53 | dataw0lf | there are big sites that run on ASP |
| 16:22.00 | dataw0lf | there are big sites that run on Perl |
| 16:22.04 | dataw0lf | there are big sites that run on Ruby |
| 16:22.09 | dataw0lf | there are big sites that run on just about everything |
| 16:22.28 | dataw0lf | PHP didn't take off because it was inherently better for the enterprise environment |
| 16:22.31 | dataw0lf | quite the opposite |
| 16:22.40 | mgeary | now that i agree with |
| 16:22.42 | dataw0lf | it took off because it was easy to learn and easy to setup on homebrewed environments |
| 16:22.46 | mgeary | and free |
| 16:22.50 | dataw0lf | indeed. |
| 16:23.24 | dataw0lf | PHP's main contender was, let's face it, Perl |
| 16:23.38 | dataw0lf | and the learning curve for Perl is much sharper for newbies (homebrewed kinda guys) than PHP |
| 16:23.48 | mgeary | well, way back when, maybe. but if so, that battle has been fairly decidedly won |
| 16:24.03 | dataw0lf | I did use 'was' |
| 16:24.04 | _psychic_ | Perl is dying or dead for web development |
| 16:24.20 | _psychic_ | But this wanders from my original scaling argument. |
| 16:24.29 | mgeary | but i do have hope that python will be the new php, in terms of adoption |
| 16:24.43 | dataw0lf | the thing is that you're seeing a bunch of these homebrewed guys who first learned PHP because it was easy explode onto the commercial web dev scene |
| 16:24.47 | dataw0lf | can I see a show of hands |
| 16:24.55 | dataw0lf | who's first language here was PHP? |
| 16:25.00 | mgeary | i started web dev in ColdFusion, but then changed jobs and the new employer wouldn't buy me CF, so i taught myself PHP. |
| 16:25.12 | mgeary | now i wouldn't touch CF with a long stick |
| 16:25.30 | dataw0lf | I know there are several people in here who's first language was PHP |
| 16:25.55 | dataw0lf | and these are the primary people who'll argue that PHP can scale. But scalability has much more to do with than how many requests you're getting. |
| 16:25.57 | _psychic_ | Mine was Java. :) |
| 16:26.02 | mgeary | heh. my first language was BASIC, then probably Applescript, then Lingo, then CF, then PHP, then ActionScript, then Python |
| 16:26.59 | dataw0lf | C -> Perl -> C++ -> x86 asm -> Smalltalk -> Python -> Lisp -> PHP |
| 16:27.16 | dataw0lf | I think |
| 16:27.30 | dataw0lf | switch Smalltalk and Python, actually |
| 16:27.42 | _psychic_ | LOGO -> BASIC -> TI-82 -> some C -> Java -> PHP/Ruby |
| 16:28.03 | dataw0lf | I don't know Java. I learned it, but I don't know it. |
| 16:28.11 | _psychic_ | its great for somethings |
| 16:28.23 | _psychic_ | but is definitely *not* write once, run anywhere |
| 16:28.25 | dataw0lf | I only approached the area where I believed I 'knew' PHP about 4 or 5 months ago ;) |
| 16:28.31 | _psychic_ | and its not what I would call an agile language |
| 16:28.53 | dataw0lf | Java is poorly designed and the worst approach to OOP that could be imagined. |
| 16:29.16 | _psychic_ | that's a slight exaggeration |
| 16:29.16 | mgeary | sweet. there are 15 episodes of The Electric Company on iTunes. |
| 16:29.19 | *** join/#uphpu dragonleech (n=jason@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 16:29.25 | _psychic_ | especially in light of your python biases :) |
| 16:29.51 | dataw0lf | I will always agree with problems that have some basis when people comment on them regarding Python |
| 16:30.13 | dataw0lf | I'm not 'biased', really. I've taken a look at many languages, and I think Python is one of the best designed, easily used languages available |
| 16:30.18 | dataw0lf | that being said |
| 16:30.20 | dataw0lf | Python roolz joo |
| 16:30.42 | _psychic_ | lol |
| 16:30.49 | dataw0lf | I've not met a single person who I've introduced to Python who didn't dislike it at first |
| 16:31.01 | dataw0lf | and then come to love it |
| 16:31.24 | _psychic_ | I like it |
| 16:31.24 | dataw0lf | Python has a smaller form of what I call 'LISP enlightenment' |
| 16:31.36 | _psychic_ | The whitespace enforcing is a bit odd |
| 16:31.42 | dataw0lf | when you learn LISP, it's like a light comes on in your head |
| 16:31.46 | dataw0lf | Python has that to a lesser degree |
| 16:31.53 | _psychic_ | ...and then you never use it again. |
| 16:32.04 | dataw0lf | I still use Lisp for some things |
| 16:32.08 | dataw0lf | mostly to feel smrt |
| 16:32.18 | dataw0lf | it's like eating a bunch of brain pills |
| 16:32.32 | _psychic_ | its so you can quote design patters to assert your alpha developer position in the pack |
| 16:32.51 | _psychic_ | "I wrote a CMS in three lines of Scheme yesterday on accident." |
| 16:32.57 | _psychic_ | "Twice." |
| 16:33.12 | dataw0lf | it's so I can implement design patterns in other languages elegantly |
| 16:33.35 | *** join/#uphpu PoeticIntensity (n=jason@70.96.176.13) |
| 16:33.48 | dataw0lf | I haven't really used Lisp too much nowadays, though. |
| 16:34.07 | dataw0lf | although I have a Python interpreter on one monitor that I'll just start typing stuff out while I'm thinking |
| 16:34.40 | dataw0lf | http://xkcd.com/c224.html |
| 16:35.28 | dataw0lf | oh, are we still arguing it? |
| 16:35.37 | dataw0lf | I get off topic easily when the topic is ridiculous. |
| 16:35.55 | _psychic_ | Right. PHP scales. |
| 16:35.58 | _psychic_ | ;) |
| 16:36.14 | dataw0lf | really, it depends on the app itself. |
| 16:36.17 | PoeticIntensity | LOL |
| 16:36.22 | PoeticIntensity | that's hilarious, dataw0lf... |
| 16:36.26 | PoeticIntensity | xkcd is great. |
| 16:36.42 | dataw0lf | any language will scale when it's a small to mid sized web application that's designed well |
| 16:36.47 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: so it isn't language dependent (within reason) |
| 16:36.53 | _psychic_ | that's what I'm saying |
| 16:36.55 | dataw0lf | within reason |
| 16:37.09 | dataw0lf | then we agree |
| 16:37.15 | dataw0lf | why were we arguing again? |
| 16:37.17 | _psychic_ | You probably can't write an "enterprise solution" in Javascript. |
| 16:37.34 | _psychic_ | we weren't - you were agreeing with everything I was saying |
| 16:37.35 | dataw0lf | *cough* Google Apps *cough* |
| 16:37.43 | dataw0lf | oh, yes |
| 16:37.57 | dataw0lf | actually, y'know, JavaScript for an enterprise solution kinda makes sense |
| 16:38.02 | dataw0lf | because it isn't server dependent |
| 16:38.22 | dataw0lf | but then again, I'm one of the few who thinks that JavaScript is an extremely good language |
| 16:38.24 | _psychic_ | there's probably a little more to Google apps than JS |
| 16:38.28 | _psychic_ | not so |
| 16:38.30 | _psychic_ | I love JS |
| 16:38.32 | dataw0lf | sure but it's JS coupled with Python |
| 16:38.38 | dataw0lf | :D |
| 16:38.46 | dataw0lf | JS client side, Python server side. |
| 16:38.51 | dataw0lf | maybe some C in there. |
| 16:38.59 | dataw0lf | added as Python modules |
| 16:39.33 | dataw0lf | oh yea, did you guys see the hackergotchi that mindjuju made for me? |
| 16:39.36 | dataw0lf | http://stderr.ws |
| 16:40.12 | dataw0lf | le sigh |
| 16:42.02 | _psychic_ | is that your head? |
| 16:42.36 | dataw0lf | yes |
| 16:42.42 | dataw0lf | it's my hackergotchi |
| 16:42.50 | dataw0lf | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hackergotchi |
| 16:43.45 | dataw0lf | dude, he got the hair |
| 16:44.12 | _psychic_ | is that your brain? |
| 16:44.22 | thebigdog | mine is better :) |
| 16:44.36 | thebigdog | phones are stupid |
| 16:44.36 | dataw0lf | yes, my brain is half COMPOOTAR |
| 16:45.02 | _psychic_ | and half green spaghetti pudding |
| 16:45.18 | dataw0lf | yes, that's the right brain. |
| 16:47.40 | dataw0lf | anyone who pronounces Missouri as "Mizzuura" needs to be shot, btw |
| 16:49.54 | mgeary | you know you'd take out the whole state of Missouri, right? |
| 16:50.05 | thebigdog | screen is one of the best apps ever created |
| 16:50.06 | mgeary | people from Miss. call it "Missippi" |
| 16:50.18 | jsmith | thebigdog: Amen! |
| 16:50.22 | dataw0lf | thebigdog: true dat |
| 16:50.40 | jsmith | mgeary: No, that's "Missssippi"... |
| 16:50.43 | jsmith | mgeary: (I should know... my wife is from MS) |
| 16:50.46 | mgeary | heh |
| 16:50.52 | thebigdog | i call it the redneck riveria |
| 16:51.48 | dataw0lf | stderr 1591 1 0 Jan08 ? 00:00:09 SCREEN |
| 16:51.55 | dataw0lf | mmm, January 8th |
| 16:52.19 | mgeary | screen rocks, but it has some scrolling/wrapping issues on OS X :/ |
| 16:53.11 | dataw0lf | tsk, that's OS X for ya |
| 16:53.34 | _psychic_ | (works okay for me) |
| 16:59.35 | Utah_Dave | dataw0lf: I like your argument that corporations should have LESS rights than citizens. That makes sense to me |
| 17:00.02 | mgeary | _psychic_: what shell do you use? |
| 17:00.32 | _psychic_ | bash |
| 17:00.57 | thebigdog | bash is great |
| 17:01.30 | thebigdog | ~tunafart _psychic_ |
| 17:01.31 | jbot | ACTION eats a week-old tuna sandwich with relish and walks over to _psychic_, leg raised, to let 'em rip. |
| 17:01.39 | _psychic_ | ~phit thebigdog |
| 17:01.40 | jbot | ACTION wiggles his fingers thebigdog's direction. You now have a strong conviction that Windows is the OS for you. |
| 17:01.57 | mgeary | _psychic_: when you're in screen, and you do a long directory listing, or a ps -auxww, don't you get strange wrapping issues? |
| 17:02.34 | _psychic_ | Not that I remember, but are you running screen locally or remotely? |
| 17:05.36 | mgeary | both |
| 17:06.56 | dataw0lf | Utah_Dave: Thanks |
| 17:13.23 | dataw0lf | ha |
| 17:13.25 | dataw0lf | http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/03/ATbankheist070301/ |
| 17:13.28 | dataw0lf | I know that kid |
| 17:13.35 | timinator | BRB |
| 17:14.20 | dataw0lf | met him two years or so ago with an ex-army friend of mine |
| 17:17.07 | *** join/#uphpu beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 17:17.07 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v beandog] by ChanServ |
| 17:19.02 | jsmith | dataw0lf: Oh no... he owned a game console. Now they're gonna blame it on XBox games... |
| 17:23.06 | *** join/#uphpu timinator (n=timinato@c-67-171-118-199.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 17:23.06 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v timinator] by ChanServ |
| 17:24.19 | dataw0lf | jsmith: yup, it wasn't the Army that taught him how to do a building insertion... IT WAS HALO 2! BANZ THE GAME! |
| 17:39.07 | dataw0lf | http://stderr.ws/feeds/latest/ |
| 17:39.10 | dataw0lf | working for everyone? |
| 17:41.22 | synic | works for me |
| 17:41.30 | mgeary | not here |
| 17:41.44 | mgeary | well, the "rants" don't have any data behind them, and the detail view goes to a 404 |
| 17:42.56 | thebigdog | i still think my gotchi was better :) |
| 17:44.50 | dataw0lf | ohp, I know what the problem is, eine moment |
| 17:45.14 | jsmith | dataw0lf: You may want to set a content-type header as well... |
| 17:48.34 | mgeary | "eine moment"? |
| 17:48.49 | mgeary | meinst du, "ein Augenblick, bitte"? |
| 17:50.56 | mgeary | hey, dataw0lf, you running the built-in django server for that site? not mod_python? |
| 17:51.18 | jsmith | dataw0lf: You still aren't sending a Content-type header... |
| 17:53.15 | dataw0lf | mgeary: I'm using mod_python |
| 17:53.24 | dataw0lf | the feeds are working now |
| 17:53.34 | mgeary | cool. i didn't know that the debug features were available outside the built-in server |
| 17:53.42 | dataw0lf | yea, they are |
| 18:01.55 | Utah_Dave | dataw0lf: Looking at your feed in my reader shows " (title unknown)" for each entry |
| 18:02.33 | mgeary | Utah_Dave: did you clear your cache? That happened for me too until i force-reloaded |
| 18:03.26 | mgeary | though the bottom ~5 postings are all empty and lead to 404s |
| 18:03.38 | Utah_Dave | refreshed several times and still get the same thing |
| 18:04.29 | dataw0lf | my reader shows it fine |
| 18:06.24 | Utah_Dave | dataw0lf hates Google Reader |
| 18:06.30 | Utah_Dave | Oh, wait. |
| 18:06.31 | Utah_Dave | there it goes |
| 18:06.36 | Utah_Dave | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:07.12 | dataw0lf | I use Sage, it's purtier |
| 18:14.18 | unum | I think I want to create my own function in postgres |
| 18:14.33 | unum | I need to be able to count the number of words in a line of text |
| 18:14.49 | unum | how should I go about this |
| 18:20.20 | dataw0lf | in a 'line' of text? or just a text field? |
| 18:21.08 | dataw0lf | either way, your best bet would probably be tsearch |
| 18:22.03 | unum | textfield |
| 18:25.03 | dataw0lf | use tsearch |
| 18:26.15 | unum | is tsearch something seperate I'll have to load in |
| 18:26.49 | dataw0lf | yes |
| 18:27.04 | unum | why use tsearch over php or python |
| 18:27.32 | dataw0lf | because it supplies the tools to do word counts by default |
| 18:27.39 | dataw0lf | you can write one in a PL language *shrug* |
| 18:28.17 | unum | I'm just not sure what the best option is or why to do one over the other |
| 18:28.28 | unum | I don't know a pl langauge |
| 18:28.34 | unum | I do know php |
| 18:32.28 | thebigdog | unum if you know php why are you wanting to create a function in pgsql? |
| 18:32.47 | dataw0lf | are you talking about a word count of a postgres return variable inside a script? I thought you were talking about a Postgres function |
| 18:33.53 | dataw0lf | count(explode(" ", $some_txt)); if that's what you want |
| 18:34.30 | *** join/#uphpu Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 18:34.30 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v Lone_Wanderer] by ChanServ |
| 18:35.22 | thebigdog | or you can use str_word_count |
| 18:35.25 | thebigdog | in php |
| 18:35.56 | dataw0lf | jeez, php has a function for everything |
| 18:36.28 | Lone_Wanderer | That's one of the things I really like about it. |
| 18:36.29 | thebigdog | yeah |
| 18:36.39 | dataw0lf | .... |
| 18:36.44 | Lone_Wanderer | Of course, if I were a Perl fan, I'd point out that CPAN has a function for even more things, and they aren't all in the global namespace. |
| 18:36.55 | thebigdog | y |
| 18:37.03 | dataw0lf | having functions for everything... meh, personally, I think it's one of PHP's greatest weaknesses. |
| 18:37.34 | Lone_Wanderer | That it has so many functions, or that they're all in the global namespace? And why do you consider it a weakness? |
| 18:38.01 | dataw0lf | that is has non standardized functions completely littering the global namespace |
| 18:38.21 | thebigdog | that is my biggest complaint with php...no namespace \ |
| 18:38.43 | Lone_Wanderer | Yes, the non-standardized part is a pain, and that they're in the global namespace is a pain. |
| 18:39.11 | dataw0lf | so now to be able to write a large app, what do I have to do? throw everything in classes to replicate some pseudo namespace |
| 18:39.23 | Lone_Wanderer | But is the sheer number of them the problem, or just the other things? |
| 18:39.38 | dataw0lf | lots of things |
| 18:40.12 | dataw0lf | if they decoupled the built-in global library and threw them into some sort of namespace functionality, you wouldn't hear a peep from me regarding PHP being substandard for web dev |
| 18:40.24 | dataw0lf | well, maybe some complaints about their exceptions |
| 18:41.02 | Lone_Wanderer | exception handling, or functions which don't have a standard order of arguments and are therefore exceptions to the rule? |
| 18:49.30 | dataw0lf | exception handling |
| 18:49.59 | dataw0lf | if you add exception handling (as they did in PHP 5) it makes no sense not to integrate the entire library with exceptions. Now I have different error handling all over the place if I decide to use exceptions. |
| 18:51.16 | mgeary | hey, anyone here want to take a look at a potential gig that we're too busy to take on? Not looking for a subcontractor, just looking to give the client a lead on someone who could help him. |
| 18:52.08 | dataw0lf | specs? |
| 18:53.20 | *** join/#uphpu burnin (n=burnin@hongkong.machinage.com) |
| 18:53.49 | mgeary | looks pretty simple. client & admin interfaces, client logs in and views available feeds from their security cameras. the feeds are supplied by supplied java applets. The only red flag is that they had someone else "do something similar" and they're "providing code as a starting point". But the code is exactly what you'd expect it to be... gack |
| 18:54.20 | mgeary | i believe they need UI creation and php development. |
| 18:54.57 | mgeary | i'll forward the email to anyone who's interested (pm me) |
| 19:00.03 | tierra | oh how I wish CVS checkouts were compatible with TortoiseCVS checkouts... why much I be tortured this way? |
| 19:00.33 | tierra | though this wouldn't be an issue if only there were a TortoiseCVS client on Mac... :( |
| 19:03.16 | dataw0lf | tierra: how are they not compatible? |
| 19:03.51 | tierra | you can't navigate regular CVS checkouts with TortoiseCVS, and vice versa I think |
| 19:04.11 | dataw0lf | really? |
| 19:04.12 | dataw0lf | weird. |
| 19:04.40 | tierra | I'm positive on the first though |
| 19:05.15 | dataw0lf | that's pretty retarded. |
| 19:05.18 | dataw0lf | TortoiseCVS sucks. |
| 19:05.30 | tierra | yeah, vice versa doesn't work either :( |
| 19:05.32 | herlo | ~lart dataw0lf |
| 19:05.43 | herlo | I like TortoiseSVN... |
| 19:05.46 | dataw0lf | that's the most retarded thing I've ever heard. |
| 19:05.59 | dataw0lf | you can switch between checkouts on TortoiseSVN versus SVN though |
| 19:06.14 | tierra | yeah, I've done that... it's nice |
| 19:06.35 | tierra | TortoiseSVN > TortoiseCVS by many times |
| 19:06.48 | dataw0lf | tortoisesvn is pretty slick |
| 19:06.57 | dataw0lf | they need TortoiseP4 |
| 19:07.06 | tierra | hehe |
| 19:07.14 | dataw0lf | because the windows p4 gui client is pretty much the worst thing ever |
| 19:07.26 | dataw0lf | I spend an hour a day trying to wrestle with it |
| 19:07.32 | tierra | that sucks |
| 19:07.36 | dataw0lf | also, p4 and multiple branches with vhosts as the end designator |
| 19:07.45 | dataw0lf | don't even get me started... |
| 19:08.09 | tierra | RapidSVN is like the only GUI client worth anything on Mac, and it sucks :( |
| 19:08.22 | dataw0lf | rapidSVN is pure crap, can't stand it. |
| 19:08.31 | tierra | me neither |
| 19:08.59 | tierra | I've been wanting to go in and make some major improvements to it myself (as it's written with wxWidgets), but I can't bring myself to even do that |
| 19:09.44 | dataw0lf | someone should port tortoisesvn to a non platform specific library so we all can have turtle love |
| 19:10.36 | dataw0lf | that may have sounded perverted |
| 19:10.57 | tierra | haha |
| 19:11.14 | dataw0lf | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:11.21 | Lone_Wanderer | woah |
| 19:11.23 | Lone_Wanderer | I wonder if that's real |
| 19:11.35 | dataw0lf | why wouldn't it be? |
| 19:11.38 | tierra | there was some attempt at a SVN shell integration on Mac, but it's not anywhere near usable |
| 19:11.40 | dataw0lf | mitnick is an autograph whore |
| 19:11.41 | Lone_Wanderer | Buy it for only $10? |
| 19:11.53 | dataw0lf | it's mitnick |
| 19:11.55 | Lone_Wanderer | I guess that's true. |
| 19:12.13 | dataw0lf | that's all he does at DefCon |
| 19:12.18 | dataw0lf | plus cheat at hacker jeopardy |
| 19:12.31 | Lone_Wanderer | I wonder if it's an original from the FBI or a photocopy. |
| 19:12.32 | tierra | heh, it's true |
| 19:12.57 | tierra | pulling out a calculator on Final Jeopardy == cheater |
| 19:13.02 | dataw0lf | ya dude |
| 19:13.14 | Lone_Wanderer | Why would he be that obvious about it? |
| 19:13.16 | dataw0lf | if you want a hacker to worship, worship teh Dan Kaminsky |
| 19:13.20 | dataw0lf | he's mitnick. |
| 19:13.29 | dataw0lf | he's a SE |
| 19:13.30 | Lone_Wanderer | Touche. |
| 19:13.31 | dataw0lf | that's all |
| 19:13.37 | Lone_Wanderer | He was never that good technically. |
| 19:13.49 | dataw0lf | phone systems I guess he was ok at |
| 19:13.50 | dataw0lf | kinda |
| 19:13.58 | dataw0lf | back when everything was open for the taking |
| 19:15.14 | dataw0lf | nowadays, the idea that your average hacker is a 12 year old sitting in his basement wardialing is laughable. |
| 19:15.17 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah, hacking the old phone systems wasn't too difficult. |
| 19:16.04 | Lone_Wanderer | Someone needs to make a movie that dramatizes the difference between script kiddies and someone who actually knows what they're doing |
| 19:16.37 | dataw0lf | I want to make a punk'd/jackass-esque hacker series |
| 19:16.59 | Lone_Wanderer | And not dumb things down so much that the "guy who knows what he's doing" ends up saying "Dude, you need to TCP into his modem so you can phreak his MySQL. Don't you know ANYTHING?" |
| 19:17.02 | dataw0lf | like, go to a friend's house and hijack his computer while he's watching goat porn |
| 19:17.06 | Lone_Wanderer | lol awesome |
| 19:17.31 | dataw0lf | "HAHAHA HACK'D" |
| 19:17.49 | dataw0lf | I just need a cameraman |
| 19:17.51 | dataw0lf | and liquor |
| 19:21.44 | Lone_Wanderer | I'd be the cameraman if one of the episodes involved paying the BYU library a visit >.> |
| 19:24.19 | dataw0lf | I don't want to be condemned to eternal suffering, kthnx |
| 19:41.04 | *** join/#uphpu gibba[w] (n=gibbawho@209-253-35-18.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 19:49.19 | dataw0lf | hehe, Microsoft claiming Google violates copyrights. |
| 19:52.56 | Utah_Dave | ~kill -9 dataw0lf |
| 19:52.57 | jbot | ACTION shoots a charged pseudoelectron gun at -9 dataw0lf |
| 19:53.12 | Utah_Dave | ~kill-9 dataw0lf |
| 19:53.20 | dataw0lf | don't get me started freestylin' again, son |
| 19:56.50 | dataw0lf | debian fo life |
| 20:12.13 | unum | someone showed me some sql commands I can use to get what I want |
| 20:12.28 | unum | the reason I want to do it in postgresql is because I want to get the average |
| 20:12.52 | unum | though I could probably do that all easily with php as well |
| 20:14.06 | thebigdog | doing it in plpsql would be a good way to learn pgsql's pl |
| 20:26.26 | beandog | ++ |
| 20:26.30 | beandog | seriously |
| 20:26.33 | beandog | learn how to do it in SQL |
| 20:26.35 | beandog | youll be glad you did. |
| 20:26.50 | beandog | besides, once you know how to write your own functions, its a whole new world |
| 20:27.48 | dataw0lf | for the love of GOD beandog! |
| 20:27.54 | beandog | :) |
| 20:30.19 | Lone_Wanderer | The HIILLLLLS are alive |
| 20:30.22 | Lone_Wanderer | With the sound of FUNCTIONS |
| 20:30.29 | Lone_Wanderer | (Laaaa, la la laaa) |
| 20:30.54 | Lone_Wanderer | With code they have parsed |
| 20:31.00 | Lone_Wanderer | for a thousand years and more! |
| 20:36.59 | mgeary | hey, is it possible to integrate mod_rewrite with MySQL in some way? |
| 20:37.26 | Lone_Wanderer | Yes. |
| 20:37.29 | Lone_Wanderer | 1. Learn C... |
| 20:37.36 | mgeary | doh! |
| 20:37.45 | Lone_Wanderer | (I don't know the easier answer, if there is one.) |
| 20:39.08 | mgeary | http://linux.lesgarsdvierzon.net/mod_rewrite/, if i'm interested in recompiling mod_rewrite, which i'm not very |
| 20:39.27 | mgeary | ah well, that's okay |
| 20:40.46 | mgeary | how 'bout this one-- how could i set up Apache so that in the event of a 404, a mod_rewrite was used? i realize this could result in an endless loop, but surely such a thing can be done... |
| 20:43.10 | synic | you can set your 404 page to a script that could redirect |
| 20:43.24 | synic | tis how we do it |
| 20:45.44 | mgeary | yeah |
| 20:55.15 | mgeary | i'm actually trying to get a django-esque url handling system implemented |
| 20:55.17 | mgeary | in php |
| 20:55.36 | mgeary | but make it backwards compatible with my existing structure |
| 20:55.43 | Lone_Wanderer | Just use Apache's rewrite tool, innit? |
| 20:55.48 | mgeary | well yeah |
| 20:56.42 | mgeary | but |
| 20:57.10 | mgeary | a) i don't want to muddy my .htaccess file with a bunch of url rewrites, i'd like it to be handled by a db lookup |
| 20:57.41 | mgeary | and b) i need (at least right now) the rewritten urls to live in peace with the existing "normal" php files |
| 20:57.41 | Lone_Wanderer | ~love c2.com |
| 20:57.43 | jbot | If you love c2.com so much, why don't you marry it? (oooooh) |
| 20:58.10 | Lone_Wanderer | Don't put them in your .htaccess, put them in a config file and then include that into your httpd.conf. |
| 20:58.20 | Lone_Wanderer | And they can do that as well. |
| 20:58.52 | mgeary | well, virtual hosting makes that config file/include a bit messier that i'd like |
| 20:59.58 | macnewbold | mgeary: I haven't read back the whole thing, but I agree with synic - use a 404 handler to do it |
| 21:00.01 | macnewbold | it works really sweet |
| 21:03.07 | mgeary | macnewbold: are you redirecting? or proxying? |
| 21:18.10 | Lone_Wanderer | http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?HorsesVsCows for your reading entertainment |
| 21:20.12 | mgeary | heh. |
| 21:20.44 | mgeary | my folks live in rural Utah. they're currently taking care of our dog, an Australian Cattle Dog. If you want to see a cow jump, just let a herding dog get close to it. |
| 21:21.09 | dataw0lf | true dat |
| 21:21.18 | dataw0lf | australian shepherds ftw |
| 21:21.57 | mgeary | ftw? |
| 21:22.22 | Lone_Wanderer | cows can actually jump? |
| 21:22.23 | Lone_Wanderer | (for the win) |
| 21:22.34 | mgeary | all mammals can jump except elephants |
| 21:22.45 | mgeary | http://www.cattledog.com/ |
| 21:23.06 | dataw0lf | I'd like to see the bigdog jump |
| 21:23.09 | mgeary | tough smart dogs |
| 21:23.39 | Lone_Wanderer | In other words, not a dog you want to have if you live in New York City. |
| 21:23.49 | mgeary | probably not |
| 21:24.06 | mgeary | "The great physical strength of the cattle dogs and their seeming indifference to the hardships of driving cattle is legendary. John and Mary Holmes, in their book, The Complete Australian Cattle Dog, describe a cattle dog that was launched by the kick of a disgruntled cow. The dog hit the ground and bounded right back at the cow, seemingly indifferent to the experience" |
| 21:24.42 | mgeary | the breed originated from the pairing of a dingo and a border collie. |
| 21:25.12 | dataw0lf | aren't they usually called blue heelers? |
| 21:25.13 | mgeary | the australian cows that are left alone for months at a time in the outback are near feral. |
| 21:25.18 | mgeary | yeah, or red heelers |
| 21:25.21 | mgeary | ours is red |
| 21:25.22 | Lone_Wanderer | holy cow |
| 21:25.56 | Lone_Wanderer | border collies are so smart and energetic that they go insane if you don't have several acres of land for them to run around on. |
| 21:26.17 | mgeary | yeah. now ask me why my folks are taking care of our dog.. ;) |
| 21:26.26 | Lone_Wanderer | and if you have a party, they'll herd the partygoers into the middle of the room |
| 21:26.28 | dataw0lf | my favorites though are german shepherds |
| 21:26.36 | dataw0lf | my old dog timber saved me when I was 5 from a bear |
| 21:26.40 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 21:26.48 | dataw0lf | yea, he was a bad arse |
| 21:27.07 | Lone_Wanderer | did they actually fight, or did he just put up a good show and convince the bear to take off? |
| 21:27.48 | dataw0lf | I don't remember, but my mom said I had wandered out of the tent in the early morning, timber was in the car sleeping, with the window open, and she woke up when she heard some grunting and growling |
| 21:27.53 | Lone_Wanderer | "Sure HyperCard is object oriented. You just don't get to pick the objects." - Ward Cunningham |
| 21:27.58 | dataw0lf | it had been trying to get into our food |
| 21:28.03 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh, cool |
| 21:28.23 | dataw0lf | my mom ran out and the bear was staring at me and I was like 10 feet away, and timber came barrelling out of the car and chased it off |
| 21:28.32 | dataw0lf | she said he was gone for like 5 minutes chasing that bear |
| 21:28.41 | dataw0lf | yea, timber was an awesome dog |
| 21:28.43 | mgeary | "Yeller, c'mon boy. Here Yeller" |
| 21:28.50 | dataw0lf | some idiot hit him with a semi truck |
| 21:28.57 | dataw0lf | then took off |
| 21:29.07 | Lone_Wanderer | :( |
| 21:29.12 | dataw0lf | if I hadn't been 9 there I woulda been chasing that motha down |
| 21:29.38 | dataw0lf | yea, that whole experience made my early years speech impediment terrible |
| 21:30.42 | Lone_Wanderer | ? |
| 21:31.32 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: I had a really bad stutter when I was young |
| 21:31.43 | dataw0lf | then I woke up when I was like 12 and it had disappeared. |
| 21:31.45 | dataw0lf | weird. |
| 21:31.58 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 21:32.01 | Lone_Wanderer | on the disappearing part anyway |
| 21:32.27 | Lone_Wanderer | ugh, hungry. apparently a single apple and a granola bar aren't going to cut it for lunch :( |
| 21:32.40 | Lone_Wanderer | ~lart the person who ate my leftovers |
| 21:32.41 | dataw0lf | it basically made me do a huge switch from extremely introvert to extremely extrovert. So I got both! |
| 21:41.32 | optikal | Anyone know how to trigger a url in the parent window of a popup, from the popup? I imagine theres just a name you can reference with window.open? |
| 21:41.41 | mgeary | yeah |
| 21:41.50 | mgeary | self.opener.location = "someurl" |
| 21:42.07 | mgeary | or something very similar |
| 21:43.30 | mgeary | that work for you? |
| 21:44.04 | optikal | Trying right now |
| 21:44.34 | optikal | Perfect. :) |
| 21:44.38 | mgeary | :) |
| 21:54.59 | optikal | mgeary: How would I pass focus to that? I've tried self.opener.focus(); |
| 21:55.43 | mgeary | hrm. is focus a method of the document, or the window? that may be where the difficulty lies. one sec |
| 21:56.19 | mgeary | try this: |
| 21:56.21 | mgeary | self.opener.window.focus() |
| 21:56.26 | mgeary | works in Safari |
| 21:57.02 | mgeary | 'course so does "self.opener.focus()" |
| 21:58.43 | Lone_Wanderer | I feel compelled to link timinator to this article... http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article1489930.ece |
| 21:58.50 | optikal | Neither work. =/ |
| 21:58.53 | Lone_Wanderer | I Can't Imagine Why. |
| 21:58.57 | optikal | No error either.. which is odd. |
| 21:59.08 | *** join/#uphpu dragonleech_ (n=jason@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 21:59.20 | mgeary | optikal: you in Firefox? |
| 21:59.25 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh snap, she's Islamic too. I was hoping she was Jewish. Oh well, there goes my point. |
| 21:59.29 | optikal | onclick="opener.window.focus();opener.location='http://www.ezwatchstore.com/shop/cart.php'" |
| 21:59.32 | optikal | Thats what I've got. |
| 21:59.34 | optikal | mgeary: yup |
| 21:59.41 | mgeary | sec |
| 22:00.00 | optikal | It had self. before them, I just removed it for trying sakes |
| 22:01.08 | dataw0lf | opener.focus() should work fine |
| 22:01.41 | mgeary | dunno |
| 22:01.45 | mgeary | sorry |
| 22:02.22 | optikal | The location works great |
| 22:02.25 | optikal | It sends that fine |
| 22:02.41 | optikal | And that works with self.opener.location and opener.location |
| 22:03.31 | dataw0lf | self should be implicit, in most cases |
| 22:05.19 | mgeary | dataw0lf: and you complain about polluted namespaces ;) |
| 22:05.57 | optikal | and it being in an onclick like that is np? |
| 22:06.10 | dataw0lf | namespaces should be explicit, except in the case of a calling script, in which case, if there is no namespace defined, it will default to said calling script |
| 22:06.14 | dataw0lf | duh |
| 22:09.54 | Lone_Wanderer | "I'm freakin' out man!" "You are freaking out, man." |
| 22:10.25 | optikal | Code works fine in IE |
| 22:12.16 | optikal | Also works in FireFox for windows |
| 22:13.29 | mgeary | but not in...? |
| 22:14.16 | optikal | No go for FireFox in Linux |
| 22:14.45 | mgeary | ah |
| 22:15.18 | optikal | Even works in IE under Linux |
| 22:15.28 | optikal | So now I know where the problem is, thanks for your help mgeary |
| 22:15.35 | mgeary | welcome, fwiw |
| 22:15.38 | optikal | Ill let you know the solution when I figure it out |
| 22:17.37 | *** join/#uphpu gibba (i=gibbawho@209-253-35-21.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 22:34.00 | Utah_Dave | If I'm given a week number, how can I find the actual dates of each day of that week? |
| 22:34.27 | Utah_Dave | For example, the date for Monday of week 10 this year is 2007-03-05 |
| 22:35.10 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: Super Troopers |
| 22:35.32 | Lone_Wanderer | dataw0lf: yes |
| 22:35.57 | dataw0lf | cha ching |
| 22:36.52 | Utah_Dave | Hm, there's a couple examples in the php docs |
| 22:39.54 | timinator | you also know the year right? |
| 22:40.20 | Utah_Dave | yes |
| 22:40.24 | timinator | I'd build an array, starting with the first day of the first week for that year |
| 22:40.34 | timinator | then build that array for the year |
| 22:40.56 | timinator | then call it like: $weeks[$passed_week] |
| 22:41.06 | timinator | then strtotime() |
| 22:41.15 | timinator | then date to get what you're really looking for |
| 22:41.26 | timinator | does that make sense? |
| 22:41.57 | thebigdog | the do a bit shift and your good |
| 22:42.05 | Utah_Dave | I don't quite understand the first part |
| 22:42.17 | Utah_Dave | how do I get the first day of the 10th week, for example |
| 22:43.08 | beandog | It'd be a Monday. |
| 22:43.09 | beandog | ;) |
| 22:43.25 | dataw0lf | beandog($date) |
| 22:43.51 | beandog | ooh now Im a function |
| 22:43.56 | thebigdog | lol |
| 22:44.11 | thebigdog | Utah_Dave what date do you have to work with? |
| 22:44.44 | Utah_Dave | I have the year and the week number |
| 22:45.16 | timinator | (I'm on the line, but I'll write it up in a sec) |
| 22:55.29 | thebigdog | Utah_Dave do this: date('Y-m-d', strtotime("+10 week 2007")); |
| 22:55.33 | thebigdog | that should do it |
| 22:56.01 | thebigdog | or remove the plus |
| 22:56.45 | thebigdog | or you might need to calculate the week offset |
| 22:57.08 | thebigdog | meaning if you are in the 3rd week and you want week 10 then you would have +7 week |
| 22:58.38 | thebigdog | Utah_Dave are you using a pgsql database? |
| 22:58.40 | *** join/#uphpu wps (n=wps@67.108.236.230.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 22:58.40 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 23:01.51 | timinator | that's simpler than my idea |
| 23:02.18 | timinator | that's why you're thebigdog |
| 23:02.25 | thebigdog | yep |
| 23:02.28 | timinator | thebigdog++ |
| 23:02.59 | mgeary | ~karma thebigdog |
| 23:02.59 | jbot | thebigdog has karma of -1 |
| 23:03.04 | mgeary | tough luck |
| 23:03.18 | thebigdog | that's what happens when you argue with dataw0lf |
| 23:09.19 | optikal | mgeary: So I didnt actually get the focus thing figured out, any FireFox in linux was doing it.. ended up just window.closing it after changing the url.. which worked fine. |
| 23:09.42 | mgeary | huh |
| 23:10.26 | optikal | What doesnt make sense? That makes perfect sense to me.. |
| 23:10.43 | mgeary | that wasn't "huh?" |
| 23:10.48 | mgeary | it was, more like, "oh" |
| 23:10.52 | mgeary | or, "aah" |
| 23:11.04 | optikal | Ooooh! right. :) sorry |
| 23:11.05 | mgeary | :) |
| 23:11.47 | mgeary | you know, when i was young, it seemed that life was so wonderful. A miracle. oh, it was beautiful, magical. |
| 23:12.37 | mgeary | no takers? |
| 23:12.38 | mgeary | awww |
| 23:18.05 | Utah_Dave | thebigdog: thanks for that snippet. I figured I needed something with strtotime and date, but was having a hard time getting it working |
| 23:18.33 | thebigdog | that was not 100% correct but it will get you there |
| 23:18.46 | thebigdog | like this might help too: echo date('Y-m-d', strtotime("10 week 1 day", mktime(0,0,0,0,0,2007))); |
| 23:19.06 | thebigdog | Utah_Dave also review this too |
| 23:23.27 | thebigdog | http://www.gnu.org/software/tar/manual/html_node/tar_109.html |
| 23:23.36 | thebigdog | sorry senior moment |
| 23:23.56 | thebigdog | those are the type of strings you can use with strtotime |
| 23:24.01 | thebigdog | for the string section |
| 23:25.12 | Utah_Dave | cool, that looks really helpful |
| 23:25.27 | thebigdog | np |
| 23:35.17 | timinator | I'm out |
| 23:35.20 | timinator | later guys |
| 23:40.37 | Lone_Wanderer | mgeary: Can you PM me with the email address you sent your earlier email to? I'm not seeing it in my inbox. |
| 23:52.59 | Lone_Wanderer | I wonder if I can convince my GF to see 300. |
| 23:58.46 | thebigdog | tomorrow im checking it out |
| 23:58.54 | thebigdog | until a couple hours all |
