| 00:00.00 | beandog_ | yah, seems like there was some reason to keep MyISAM |
| 00:00.06 | beandog_ | I can't remember what it was. |
| 00:00.15 | Lone_Wanderer | There is, but I don't remember what it is, and since I don't remember it, it can't be important. |
| 00:00.22 | Lone_Wanderer | (I learned that from Zaphod.) |
| 00:00.22 | beandog_ | yah. |
| 00:00.41 | Lone_Wanderer | "I have heard of all the fun things in the universe, and I haven't heard of that, so it can't be fun." |
| 00:00.41 | beandog_ | Lone_Wanderer: check this out, it looks like InnoDB already supports foreign keys in 4.x |
| 00:00.53 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah, but it gets better in 5 I believe. |
| 00:01.05 | beandog_ | not sure about constriants or cascade delete, haven't gotten that far yet. |
| 00:01.10 | beandog_ | constraints |
| 00:01.56 | Lone_Wanderer | what are you reading? |
| 00:02.04 | Utah_Dave | MyISAM is faster |
| 00:02.16 | Utah_Dave | InnoDB has the cooler features |
| 00:02.22 | beandog_ | http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/5.0/en/ansi-diff-foreign-keys.html |
| 00:02.38 | beandog_ | I wish MySQL just had one storage engine with all the features there. |
| 00:02.40 | beandog_ | ~lart mysql |
| 00:02.46 | beandog_ | lols |
| 00:03.48 | beandog_ | Lone_Wanderer: first paragraph |
| 00:04.05 | beandog_ | Id still feel better using postgres. |
| 00:04.29 | Lone_Wanderer | imho, Postgres would be an infinitely better choice for that project. |
| 00:04.58 | beandog_ | I've yet to imagine a project where sqlite or postgres couldnt spank the crap out of mysql. |
| 00:05.23 | beandog_ | in my unhumble opinion :) |
| 00:06.07 | Lone_Wanderer | I think the big issue is maintaining it after the postgres developer leaves. It's easy to get another MySQL developer, but getting another Postgres developer is not trivial. |
| 00:06.30 | beandog_ | true, but thats like saying we should run windows because its hard to find a good linux sysadmin |
| 00:06.56 | beandog_ | in fact, why hire an admin when your boss can point and click create a database with sql server? |
| 00:07.12 | thebigdog | Lone_Wanderer, unless you have thebigdog on hand |
| 00:07.15 | beandog_ | Lone_Wanderer: I agree with you though |
| 00:07.19 | beandog_ | thats usually what happens. |
| 00:07.46 | Lone_Wanderer | Except to say that, for this one project, Postgres offers things that we could really make use of that MySQL dooesn't. |
| 00:07.47 | Lone_Wanderer | doesn't* |
| 00:07.53 | beandog_ | yah |
| 00:09.01 | thebigdog | Lone_Wanderer if you need a pgsql admin on hand...give me a growl |
| 00:09.23 | beandog_ | we dont |
| 00:09.34 | beandog_ | :) |
| 00:09.39 | *** kick/#uphpu [beandog_!n=bigdog@208.177.146.102.ptr.us.xo.net] by thebigdog (oh so sorry) |
| 00:09.40 | *** join/#uphpu beandog_ (n=sdibb@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 00:09.45 | beandog_ | hee hee hee |
| 00:09.47 | thebigdog | lol |
| 00:09.57 | thebigdog | i just cant get rid of him |
| 00:10.12 | thebigdog | ~karma beandog_ |
| 00:10.12 | jbot | beandog_ has neutral karma |
| 00:10.21 | beandog_ | ~karma beandog |
| 00:10.21 | jbot | beandog has karma of 4 |
| 00:10.22 | thebigdog | beandog_++ |
| 00:10.27 | beandog_ | huzzah! |
| 00:10.36 | thebigdog | ~karma thebigdog |
| 00:10.36 | jbot | thebigdog has karma of -1 |
| 00:10.42 | beandog_ | thebigdog++ |
| 00:10.44 | thebigdog | YES |
| 00:11.58 | beandog_ | ++ |
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| 00:29.26 | mindjuju | jbot: bobbarker $1 is <action> grabs $1 by the (left hind leg |head |scruff ) and with the other hand prepares to neuter $1! Guess $1 won't be needing THESE THINGS anymore! |
| 00:29.28 | jbot | okay, mindjuju |
| 00:29.35 | mindjuju | ~bobbarker thebigdog |
| 00:29.37 | jbot | ACTION grabs thebigdog by the head and with the other hand prepares to neuter thebigdog! Guess thebigdog won't be needing THESE THINGS anymore! |
| 00:30.02 | mindjuju | ~bobbarker beandog_ |
| 00:30.03 | jbot | ACTION grabs beandog_ by the scruff and with the other hand prepares to neuter beandog_! Guess beandog_ won't be needing THESE THINGS anymore! |
| 00:30.15 | beandog_ | heh |
| 00:30.17 | beandog_ | thats a good one. |
| 00:30.33 | mindjuju | :) |
| 00:33.25 | *** part/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 00:33.29 | beandog_ | take out the spaces though |
| 00:33.49 | mindjuju | yeah, i flubbed up on the spaces |
| 00:34.03 | mindjuju | you know, after all the commands i've written, i can't seem to be able to kill one |
| 00:34.13 | beandog_ | ? |
| 00:34.15 | beandog_ | kill oen? |
| 00:34.16 | beandog_ | one |
| 00:34.18 | beandog_ | a;slkdjf |
| 00:34.46 | mindjuju | yeah, you can remove factoids, but not commands |
| 00:34.53 | mindjuju | or at least i haven't been able to do so |
| 00:34.59 | mindjuju | jbot, forget bobbarker |
| 00:34.59 | jbot | i didn't have anything called 'bobbarker' to forget, mindjuju |
| 00:35.10 | mindjuju | jbot, forget ~bobbarker |
| 00:35.10 | jbot | i didn't have anything called '~bobbarker' to forget, mindjuju |
| 00:35.22 | mindjuju | jbot, del bobbarker |
| 00:35.54 | mindjuju | jbot |
| 00:36.05 | mindjuju | ~jbot |
| 00:36.07 | jbot | it has been said that jbot is only marginally useful at best, He got a C- on his Turing Test, or dating the fembots, or a potty mouth, or some dimwit who learns crud. |
| 00:36.19 | mgeary | "del bobbarker" is an alias for "rm -R /" |
| 00:39.55 | beandog_ | jbot: bobbarker is foo |
| 00:39.56 | jbot | ACTION grabs is foo by the left hind leg and with the other hand prepares to neuter is foo! Guess is foo won't be needing THESE THINGS anymore! |
| 00:40.03 | beandog_ | meh. |
| 00:46.36 | mgeary | ~fishslap some sense into beandog_ |
| 00:46.37 | jbot | ACTION slaps some sense into beandog_ up side the head with a wet fish. |
| 00:47.22 | mgeary | aww. didn't mean to drive him away |
| 00:47.54 | mgeary | is jbot smart enough to take multiple parameters on its insults? |
| 00:48.01 | mgeary | doesn't look like it |
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| 02:47.23 | beandog | bah |
| 02:47.33 | beandog | taxcut.com gets stuck in a redirect loop in konqueror |
| 02:48.27 | mindjuju | ~lart taxcut.com |
| 02:50.29 | burnin | ~lart taxes |
| 02:51.47 | beandog | turbo tax is maxing out my cpu for some stupid reason |
| 02:51.47 | beandog | bah. |
| 02:52.26 | mindjuju | because the tax code is complex? |
| 02:52.28 | burnin | turbo tax online? |
| 02:55.45 | burnin | I don't have enough faith in business to do my taxes online |
| 02:56.26 | burnin | but it probably doesn't matter, the IRS is probably selling of losing my personal info this second. |
| 02:57.24 | burnin | s/of/or/ |
| 02:57.33 | burnin | thanks jbot |
| 02:58.23 | mindjuju | yeah, a lot of things need to change in regards to financial record storage |
| 02:59.10 | mindjuju | it chaps my A that i have to pay $50 a year to have a company keep an eye on my financial info and credit history just cause the credit agencies can't get their crap together |
| 02:59.27 | burnin | mindjuju, many companies are too lax with data and even system security. it takes a disaster to wake them up. |
| 02:59.44 | mindjuju | true that |
| 02:59.49 | mindjuju | that pretexting stuff is nuts |
| 03:00.21 | mindjuju | it's really a catch 22 for me though |
| 03:00.33 | mindjuju | on the one hand, i want to sue companies that have lax security |
| 03:00.50 | mindjuju | on the other hand, i think there are too many lawsuits and that is negatively impacting the courts |
| 03:01.07 | burnin | agreed |
| 03:01.34 | burnin | if there was a way to rate data security practices we could choose who to do business with based on their rating. |
| 03:01.47 | mindjuju | right! |
| 03:01.53 | burnin | businesses listen to dollars leaving. :) |
| 03:02.16 | mindjuju | course, on the other hand, if a person wants to break in, they are only limited by time and skill |
| 03:03.11 | burnin | yeah, I hear that alot, but IMO its a lame excuse. how many people actually have the skill, time, and motive to steal truely secured data? |
| 03:04.11 | mindjuju | well, funny you should ask, just last week in my freetime i was researching about all these supposed NSA, Pentagon computer break ins |
| 03:04.18 | mindjuju | ~wiki titan rain |
| 03:04.54 | mindjuju | prolly one of the more interesting things i was researching |
| 03:06.41 | burnin | so how well were the hacked systems protected and was the data on the systems encrypted? |
| 03:06.48 | burnin | the wiki article is pretty slim |
| 03:07.36 | burnin | I'm less worried about Chinese military hackers and more concerned about Russian mob hackers. |
| 03:08.40 | mindjuju | yup, could tell you stories about my previous employer and Russian / Eastern Europe organized crime |
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| 12:44.57 | t00_m4d_f00 | hey all |
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| 15:59.18 | beandog | me too |
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| 16:00.36 | mindjuju | sup beandog |
| 16:00.41 | beandog | nada |
| 16:00.49 | beandog | just waiting for the weekend. :) |
| 16:01.39 | mindjuju | my weekend actually starts tomorrow. I'm going to give my wife the day off (she's full time homemaker) and send her to a day spa, and i'm hauling my son to discovery gateway for an all day thing |
| 16:01.58 | mindjuju | i've been working crazy hours lately, so it'll be a nice break |
| 16:02.01 | beandog | cool |
| 16:02.04 | dataw0lf | nice |
| 16:02.09 | beandog | go check out the planetarium too |
| 16:02.18 | dataw0lf | plane-arium |
| 16:02.37 | dataw0lf | man, when I read discovery gateway I was thinking GDP at first |
| 16:03.05 | mindjuju | it's funny ya'll mention the planetarium, i was thinking that would be a good afternoon activity for he and i |
| 16:03.06 | beandog | GDP? |
| 16:03.11 | beandog | its really cool |
| 16:03.13 | beandog | me gusta. |
| 16:03.45 | dataw0lf | beandog: Gateway Discovery Protocol |
| 16:03.59 | dataw0lf | weird IRDP-esque Cisco protocol |
| 16:04.10 | beandog | ah okay |
| 16:04.15 | beandog | dataw0lf: youve been working too hard |
| 16:04.38 | dataw0lf | just did some Cisco network consulting |
| 16:04.44 | dataw0lf | my eye is still twitching |
| 16:05.01 | mindjuju | yeah, cisco is no walk in the park |
| 16:05.46 | dataw0lf | especially when their access layer was farked |
| 16:07.35 | dataw0lf | and SNMP was about as hackable as SNMP can get |
| 16:16.43 | dataw0lf | http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c142/buck27/phone.jpg NWS for one bad word on bottom of image (b*) |
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| 16:18.09 | beandog | oh sweet. |
| 16:18.17 | beandog | http://www.ldswebguy.com/2007/03/07/the-testaments-dvd-now-available/ |
| 16:19.27 | mgeary | haven't seen it |
| 16:20.18 | dataw0lf | me neither |
| 16:20.45 | mindjuju | hey beandog, did you see the judge dropped one of the patent cases against MS ? |
| 16:20.51 | beandog | yah |
| 16:20.56 | beandog | theyre appealing though |
| 16:20.59 | beandog | kinda cool all the same. |
| 16:21.08 | beandog | and of course in the news today is verizon filing one against vonage. |
| 16:21.08 | mindjuju | yeah |
| 16:21.12 | beandog | stupid jerks. |
| 16:21.17 | beandog | death to patents. |
| 16:21.31 | mindjuju | yeah, patent law needs to be revised |
| 16:21.46 | mindjuju | and exceptions need to stop being made for big intersts |
| 16:25.21 | beandog | http://www.jonobacon.org/?p=915 |
| 16:25.23 | beandog | yah |
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| 17:10.47 | mgeary | do ya like my new level 46 tunic? <turns around> fancy, eh? I love the tassles |
| 17:12.52 | mgeary | awww c'mon guys! give it back! |
| 17:13.33 | dataw0lf | who here uses codeigniter? |
| 17:13.53 | dataw0lf | I've been playing with it since yesterday, and have a couple questions, since the dang codeigniter site is down and I can't access the forums |
| 17:13.55 | mgeary | never heard of it |
| 17:13.56 | jsmith | dataw0lf: I'd like to... I just haven't had a project that needed it |
| 17:14.08 | dataw0lf | jsmith: looks pretty slick |
| 17:14.10 | Utah_Dave | dataw0lf: I use codeigniter extensively |
| 17:14.13 | dataw0lf | from what I've done so far |
| 17:14.19 | beandog | whats that |
| 17:14.20 | Utah_Dave | every day |
| 17:14.25 | dataw0lf | Utah_Dave: yea, knew that, was hoping you were around :) |
| 17:14.38 | dataw0lf | I'm wondering what the correct process of defining a foreign key in a model is |
| 17:14.42 | Utah_Dave | I just looked in #codeigniter |
| 17:14.43 | dataw0lf | just use a var? |
| 17:14.52 | dataw0lf | instantiate the foreign model in the referencing model? |
| 17:15.00 | Utah_Dave | a model in codeigniter isn't what you think it is |
| 17:15.17 | dataw0lf | what do you mean? |
| 17:15.25 | Utah_Dave | it's not like Cake that ties you into your database real tight |
| 17:15.43 | dataw0lf | right |
| 17:15.48 | _psychic_ | ? |
| 17:15.54 | dataw0lf | so it's just a loose coupling into the db that the view accesses? |
| 17:16.05 | Utah_Dave | the methods in your model are not constrained by anything |
| 17:16.28 | dataw0lf | Utah_Dave: ok, so ... ? |
| 17:16.40 | Utah_Dave | for example $this->user_model->getUserInfo($userid) |
| 17:17.05 | Utah_Dave | you have to create that method and return the info you want. Codeigniter doesn't try to figure anything out for you |
| 17:17.15 | _psychic_ | model methods in cake aren't "constrained" either... |
| 17:17.17 | dataw0lf | ok, so I just write the SQL myself, then? |
| 17:17.29 | Utah_Dave | Yeah, you do write your own sql |
| 17:17.36 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: I think he's talking about ORM coupling |
| 17:17.41 | dataw0lf | Utah_Dave: word, alright |
| 17:17.48 | Utah_Dave | they do have a pretty simple, but useful, Active Record class that I use a lot |
| 17:17.57 | Utah_Dave | but it's nothing like A |
| 17:18.14 | Utah_Dave | but it's nothing like SQL Alchemy or anything cool like they have for Python |
| 17:18.17 | _psychic_ | $this->User->findByFieldName('value') in cake is automatic, is that what you're talking about? |
| 17:18.28 | Utah_Dave | _psychic_: yeah |
| 17:19.36 | dataw0lf | Utah_Dave: does CI encourage you to use other models in a specific model framework? |
| 17:19.39 | dataw0lf | for example |
| 17:19.41 | dataw0lf | if I have a Blog class |
| 17:19.45 | dataw0lf | and an Entry class |
| 17:20.02 | dataw0lf | should I reference an instance of Entry in the class, or should I leave that all to the controller? |
| 17:20.32 | dataw0lf | I just want to do it the 'CI' way so I don't have people commenting on how I should change this, or that. |
| 17:20.33 | Utah_Dave | I have the controller call the different models I need to access |
| 17:21.01 | dataw0lf | usually, I like to reference models in each other, but people like to say it's a bad idea |
| 17:21.03 | Utah_Dave | I can't remember if I call load a model from another model |
| 17:21.06 | dataw0lf | (too tightly coupled, not pure MVC) |
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| 17:21.43 | _psychic_ | so can you associate models in CI? |
| 17:22.18 | dataw0lf | the pythonic way would be to pass an Entry instance into a blog method, and in the method definition implicitly call methods owned by entry |
| 17:22.52 | dataw0lf | but I'm unsure how this is usually dealt with in PHP ( I try to avoid PHP OOP as much as possible ) |
| 17:23.20 | mgeary | dataw0lf: why? i've found PHP5's OOP to be decent |
| 17:23.30 | mgeary | a vast improvement over 4, in any case |
| 17:23.32 | _psychic_ | yeah - why avoid oop? |
| 17:24.26 | dataw0lf | I just don't like PHP's OOP system |
| 17:24.36 | dataw0lf | I've argued this too many times to regurgitate what I think |
| 17:24.40 | mgeary | no worries |
| 17:25.07 | dataw0lf | needless to say, I'll use it when exceptions, namespaces, and other features that ready a language for OOP. |
| 17:25.22 | dataw0lf | nowadays I just use PHP's OOP for pseudo namespaces, and that's all. |
| 17:25.29 | Utah_Dave | dataw0lf: I can't find any instances where I load a model from another model. |
| 17:25.42 | dataw0lf | Utah_Dave: yea, I figured out why I was scratching my head |
| 17:25.45 | _psychic_ | wow |
| 17:25.52 | dataw0lf | CI's user_guide uses ActiveRecord in their examples |
| 17:26.00 | Utah_Dave | I'm not sure whether it works or not |
| 17:26.28 | Utah_Dave | I like the Active Record. It's not full featured, but for most queries it works pretty well |
| 17:27.01 | dataw0lf | is there a full featured reference for Models in CI? I'm not seeing one. |
| 17:27.22 | mgeary | _psychic_: why do you *obviously* prefer cake? You a contributor? |
| 17:27.31 | Utah_Dave | well, the reference that's there is pretty much all there is to it. |
| 17:27.54 | _psychic_ | mgeary: I'm on the dev team :) |
| 17:27.54 | Utah_Dave | A CI model is just a bunch of methods that you create yourself |
| 17:28.07 | Utah_Dave | kind of like a namespace really |
| 17:28.17 | dataw0lf | does the Model class do a $this->load->database() implicitly? |
| 17:28.24 | Utah_Dave | I have a user_model, a schedule_model, a team_model |
| 17:28.40 | Utah_Dave | No, you have to load the database in the model, or in the controller |
| 17:28.45 | Utah_Dave | I do it in the model |
| 17:28.48 | dataw0lf | word |
| 17:29.49 | dataw0lf | $this->load->database() will automatically assign it to the $this->db attribute? |
| 17:30.00 | _psychic_ | so why even have models if you have to do it all manually? |
| 17:30.30 | Utah_Dave | dataw0lf: yep. $this->load->database(); |
| 17:30.51 | Utah_Dave | then $this->db->select('username'); |
| 17:30.58 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: you have to define the model, sure. But it's usage is reflected in the controller. |
| 17:31.04 | Utah_Dave | $this->db->get(); |
| 17:31.10 | dataw0lf | whether or not you have to build the model 'manually' |
| 17:31.28 | _psychic_ | I guess it just seems like db connection stuff should just get handled by it |
| 17:31.36 | _psychic_ | rather than making the developer worry about it |
| 17:31.40 | Utah_Dave | _psychic_: you have models so your controller doesn't have to know anything about the database or where it's getting the info from |
| 17:31.56 | _psychic_ | Utah_Dave: No, you have to load the database in the model, or in the controller |
| 17:32.01 | _psychic_ | ? |
| 17:32.13 | _psychic_ | you, as in the developer? |
| 17:32.15 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: personally, I think being able to control when and where you make a database connection is a plus, not a minus |
| 17:32.33 | Utah_Dave | _psychic_: well, I have models that access a mysql database, but I also have a couple that access an ldap server. |
| 17:32.47 | Utah_Dave | I don't have to load the overhead of the database class when I'm just accessing the ldap server |
| 17:33.05 | _psychic_ | Hm |
| 17:33.17 | _psychic_ | the way i set things up, models are only loaded up if I use them |
| 17:33.26 | _psychic_ | their particular data sources are defined at the model level |
| 17:33.41 | _psychic_ | but having to make that connection happen on my own seems needless |
| 17:33.54 | _psychic_ | imho |
| 17:34.25 | Utah_Dave | In CI you have to load the model explicitly as well, but the model doesn't necessarily access a database, it might be flat files, or an ldap server, or a soap api |
| 17:34.38 | _psychic_ | sure - that's what models are for |
| 17:34.59 | Utah_Dave | so if I'm accessing a flat file, then I don't have to have the overhead of the database class being loaded. |
| 17:35.02 | _psychic_ | in cake, certain models are always available by default, but only get loaded up if you actually use then |
| 17:35.14 | _psychic_ | sure, but the model should just load it when its needed |
| 17:35.20 | _psychic_ | not force you to have to load it manually |
| 17:35.33 | Utah_Dave | well, I can see your point. |
| 17:35.39 | _psychic_ | I don't think I'm making sense (or understanding you) |
| 17:35.41 | _psychic_ | ha |
| 17:35.45 | Utah_Dave | it's one line of code. It doesn't bother me too much |
| 17:36.25 | mgeary | we ought to have a web framework shootout meeting |
| 17:36.30 | Utah_Dave | want me to pastebin a sample model? |
| 17:36.36 | mgeary | i do |
| 17:36.43 | dataw0lf | mgeary: it wouldn't be fair |
| 17:36.48 | dataw0lf | Django would win just because it was Python |
| 17:36.52 | dataw0lf | game over. |
| 17:36.59 | mgeary | well, i mean within the PHP realm |
| 17:37.01 | dataw0lf | oh |
| 17:37.20 | mgeary | i'm on board with Django, but my migration process will be a slow one |
| 17:37.23 | Utah_Dave | I've been thinking of offering to do a short presentation on Codeigniter |
| 17:37.49 | beandog | dunno if thered by any interest though. |
| 17:37.51 | mgeary | ebuilds? |
| 17:38.00 | dataw0lf | mgeary: tell me about it (migration) |
| 17:38.06 | dataw0lf | mgeary: Gentoo |
| 17:38.11 | mgeary | ah |
| 17:38.14 | dataw0lf | I'll do a deb packaging presentation |
| 17:38.15 | _psychic_ | I think we should have a UPHPU meeting in Reno about python. |
| 17:38.21 | dataw0lf | I think so too. |
| 17:38.38 | mgeary | Reno? |
| 17:38.45 | dataw0lf | once you cross the state line, the UPHPU acronym magically transforms to RPYU |
| 17:38.48 | _psychic_ | Either that, or one in Rio about geothermal vents. |
| 17:38.56 | dataw0lf | I'm a vent. |
| 17:39.12 | beandog | RPYU? |
| 17:39.18 | beandog | Reno Python something |
| 17:39.21 | dataw0lf | Reno Python Users |
| 17:39.26 | beandog | dataw0lf: that would be cool |
| 17:39.34 | beandog | are they hard to do? |
| 17:39.34 | dataw0lf | yea |
| 17:39.47 | dataw0lf | they're a pain in the butt |
| 17:39.52 | dataw0lf | especially python debs |
| 17:40.05 | dataw0lf | I'll deny this if you ever repeat this |
| 17:40.06 | beandog | really? eeks. |
| 17:40.08 | beandog | heh |
| 17:40.13 | dataw0lf | but python deb packaging is teh worst |
| 17:40.30 | beandog | whys that |
| 17:40.30 | beandog | all the deps? |
| 17:40.41 | dataw0lf | it's like the two loves of my life couple and produce SATAN |
| 17:40.51 | dataw0lf | just Python's structure |
| 17:41.16 | dataw0lf | and it's hard to determine deps on each and every system |
| 17:41.29 | dataw0lf | that's why there's a Python DEB Packing team devoted to figuring out the problem |
| 17:41.33 | dataw0lf | Packaging* |
| 17:41.45 | beandog | wow |
| 17:41.48 | beandog | thats crazy |
| 17:42.10 | dataw0lf | yea, well we test our packages extensively |
| 17:42.32 | beandog | accusingly? |
| 17:42.52 | dataw0lf | yea, gentoo dweeb |
| 17:43.04 | dataw0lf | more like genpoo |
| 17:43.05 | dataw0lf | ha! |
| 17:43.09 | dataw0lf | ;-) |
| 17:43.42 | beandog | genpoo |
| 17:43.43 | beandog | that's great |
| 17:43.43 | beandog | :D |
| 17:43.53 | dataw0lf | hmmmm |
| 17:44.02 | beandog | lol |
| 17:44.05 | beandog | noooooooo |
| 17:46.46 | optikal | hahah oman |
| 17:46.50 | optikal | nice find. |
| 17:49.43 | dataw0lf | http://www.greenfly.org/mes.html |
| 17:49.46 | dataw0lf | by a coworker of mine |
| 17:51.52 | Utah_Dave | interesting article |
| 17:52.00 | dataw0lf | he's a bright guy |
| 17:54.45 | beandog | yah its pretty spot on, actually |
| 17:54.45 | beandog | though it looks like he hasnt used it much |
| 17:54.45 | beandog | could be wrong. |
| 17:54.45 | beandog | I threw out the optimization argument a while ago. For me its flexibility, now. |
| 17:54.45 | _psychic_ | Mandrake Expatriate Syndrome... lol |
| 17:54.57 | dataw0lf | beandog: he's used it extensively. |
| 17:55.17 | beandog | ok |
| 17:55.25 | beandog | I couldnt tell from the "From scratch" paragraph |
| 17:55.29 | jsmith | dataw0lf: Ubuntu is the new gentoo |
| 17:55.37 | beandog | jsmith: its true, actually |
| 17:55.42 | dataw0lf | jsmith: community wise, sure |
| 17:55.43 | beandog | gentoo used to be really popular |
| 17:55.47 | beandog | now all the fanboys are using ubuntu |
| 17:55.47 | dataw0lf | technology wise? don't think so. |
| 17:56.02 | dataw0lf | it's not just fanboys |
| 17:56.08 | dataw0lf | it's also general users |
| 17:56.11 | beandog | yah |
| 17:56.34 | dataw0lf | that's why I stick with the Debian community but use Ubuntu packages :) |
| 17:56.50 | dataw0lf | I'm like a pure condensation of the Debian community |
| 17:56.52 | dataw0lf | mean spirited |
| 17:56.54 | dataw0lf | sarcastic |
| 17:56.59 | dataw0lf | all the fun things |
| 17:57.03 | beandog | lol |
| 18:02.53 | thebigdog | dataw0lf, you got a minute? |
| 18:03.57 | dataw0lf | thebigdog: sure |
| 18:04.20 | thebigdog | you ever have any issues with udev setting block device to character? |
| 18:04.27 | Utah_Dave | has anyone watched that monzy video on youtube? "Kill -9" |
| 18:05.17 | dataw0lf | thebigdog: never, that's a strange one. |
| 18:05.31 | dataw0lf | it's just arbitrarily setting block devices to character devices? |
| 18:05.35 | thebigdog | yeah i got an external hd that gets set to character |
| 18:05.44 | thebigdog | just on the usb drives i pluggin |
| 18:06.27 | dataw0lf | huh |
| 18:06.30 | dataw0lf | what udev / kernel? |
| 18:06.55 | dataw0lf | what's your udev rule look like? |
| 18:06.58 | thebigdog | kernel is 2.6.9-42.37 (centos kernel) |
| 18:07.31 | thebigdog | BUS="usb", SYSFS{serial}="AA9326233E2C", NAME="lacie", GROUP="disk", MODE="0660" |
| 18:07.42 | dataw0lf | huh |
| 18:07.44 | dataw0lf | looks safe enough |
| 18:07.56 | thebigdog | yeah it works, justs sets it as character |
| 18:08.00 | dataw0lf | try symlinking it to some name |
| 18:08.07 | dataw0lf | and see if it'll catch it as a block device then |
| 18:08.20 | thebigdog | i thought about doing mode="060660" to see what it would do |
| 18:08.29 | thebigdog | let me try that |
| 18:13.24 | mindjuju | ~rlart |
| 18:13.45 | jsmith | Mmmmn...fish heads... |
| 18:13.56 | jsmith | ~zap mindjuju |
| 18:13.58 | jbot | ACTION takes out a cattle prod and gives mindjuju a good jolt. |
| 18:14.22 | Utah_Dave | mindjuju: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fow7iUaKrq4 |
| 18:19.23 | dataw0lf | haha 'you thought the 7 layer model, referred to a burrito' |
| 18:20.16 | jsmith | Mmmmn... 7-layer OSI dip |
| 18:20.36 | mindjuju | yeah, i was just going to say i liked that part |
| 18:21.05 | Utah_Dave | "you're the tertiary storage, I'm the L1 cache" |
| 18:23.32 | dataw0lf | "you use csh, while I'm using bash" |
| 18:24.22 | _psychic_ | What is this, geek rap? |
| 18:24.33 | dataw0lf | nerdcore |
| 18:24.43 | mindjuju | watch the youtube vid that utah_dave posted |
| 18:24.49 | dataw0lf | Monzy is actually pretty good |
| 18:24.51 | dataw0lf | smrt too |
| 18:24.58 | mindjuju | some language though, so may not be SFW |
| 18:25.32 | Utah_Dave | true, sorry, mindjuju |
| 18:26.02 | Utah_Dave | "I'll chown your home and take your access away" |
| 18:26.19 | mindjuju | nah, wasn't saying i got in trouble or anything |
| 18:30.32 | thebigdog | and remove all your + signs |
| 18:31.09 | Utah_Dave | we ought to come up with a UPHPU song |
| 18:31.37 | dataw0lf | hmmm |
| 18:31.43 | dataw0lf | that, sir, is a good idea |
| 18:33.51 | jsmith | Yup... |
| 18:35.18 | herlo | you guys are sick and wrong. Who's gonna sing it? MC Frontalot is probably not available... |
| 18:35.30 | dataw0lf | I could sing it |
| 18:36.51 | mindjuju | i could scratch and mix |
| 18:36.57 | thebigdog | i think mac and wps should sing it |
| 18:37.20 | Utah_Dave | "PHP runs circles around you Python/Django suckas!" |
| 18:37.28 | Utah_Dave | how's that for a start? |
| 18:37.28 | Utah_Dave | :) |
| 18:38.09 | herlo | dataw0lf: not a chance, you suck! |
| 18:38.16 | herlo | that's why it's windy here in Utah! |
| 18:38.53 | herlo | we are such nerds... |
| 18:39.03 | herlo | good thing we don't eat turds... |
| 18:39.08 | dataw0lf | :\ |
| 18:39.09 | herlo | we're UPHPU and we see you |
| 18:39.28 | herlo | but you can't code like a mother lode |
| 18:39.51 | herlo | btw, don't hire me to do lyrics |
| 18:40.04 | dataw0lf | now herlo sitting here, tryin' to diss on this |
| 18:40.12 | dataw0lf | when everyone knows he's a closet Microsoft fascist |
| 18:40.47 | dataw0lf | I'll take him out by the racks, and hit em with my attacks |
| 18:40.56 | dataw0lf | kinda like ibot likes to drop piles of VAXs |
| 18:41.24 | dataw0lf | word up g |
| 18:42.07 | mindjuju | sayin' bro, i think you've stunned him |
| 18:42.20 | herlo | and says bring it beotch, I got a bigger notch! |
| 18:42.36 | mgeary | ~insult bad lyrics |
| 18:42.58 | dataw0lf | dude, I'll nmap you into oblivion, I'll crush your little server |
| 18:43.09 | dataw0lf | then I'll add you to pervertedjustice as a kid lovin' pervert |
| 18:43.18 | herlo | dataw0lf: I've got skillz to protect my server... |
| 18:43.25 | dataw0lf | I'll take your SSN and buy me some thinkgeek |
| 18:43.46 | herlo | sweet baby Jesus, praise the Domino's and KFC and Taco Bell |
| 18:43.48 | dataw0lf | and run one million processes of an overexpired fseek |
| 18:44.59 | herlo | and my "smokin' hot" wife |
| 18:45.00 | jsmith | SQL injection, I'm in fourth normal form... I was handling interrupts while you were sleeping in your dorm... |
| 18:45.01 | herlo | woo! |
| 18:45.15 | dataw0lf | your RH certs are impressive, herlo, it's true |
| 18:45.25 | dataw0lf | but I'll run a parser on your source and change all your variable names to 'foo' |
| 18:45.38 | herlo | dataw0lf: that's not all I've got I have a few other acronyms related to me as well.. |
| 18:45.50 | herlo | take UTOS and UTOSC, S4, UOSP and SSP |
| 18:46.21 | herlo | I'll just go to the bar and revamp that on your ass... |
| 18:46.43 | dataw0lf | your alphabet soup impresses me about as much as Gentoo |
| 18:46.52 | dataw0lf | and you should add one more after your name..... DOO DOO! |
| 18:47.53 | herlo | I like Gentoo, and this ain't no wrap, I just use Fedora and won't take no crap (from you!) |
| 18:48.33 | dataw0lf | I'm a lyrical genius son |
| 18:48.35 | dataw0lf | you don't want none |
| 18:48.44 | herlo | I ain't scared and am having fun |
| 18:48.50 | dataw0lf | I'll make a fun pun that'll block the sun |
| 18:48.58 | Utah_Dave | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:49.05 | dataw0lf | haha |
| 18:54.21 | macnewbold | ? |
| 18:54.23 | macnewbold | dancers? |
| 18:54.39 | macnewbold | mindjuju has been drinking too much cough syrup methinks |
| 18:55.23 | mindjuju | yeah, every rapper group has dancers |
| 18:55.48 | macnewbold | oh, so now you're a rapper? |
| 18:55.52 | macnewbold | ever see canal23? |
| 18:55.57 | mindjuju | nope |
| 18:56.02 | macnewbold | tune in |
| 18:56.06 | macnewbold | it's an over-the-air channel |
| 18:56.18 | mindjuju | actually herlo and dataw0lf were just in a rap-off |
| 18:56.22 | macnewbold | in the evening they get going with a spanish mtv kind of thing |
| 18:56.37 | mindjuju | that sounds like an abomination |
| 18:56.43 | macnewbold | you'd love it |
| 18:56.48 | macnewbold | half of them have accordions |
| 18:56.58 | macnewbold | and the other half are spanish rappers |
| 18:56.58 | mindjuju | did i tell you i heard one thing that actually beats ranchera music? |
| 18:57.05 | macnewbold | no?!? |
| 18:57.05 | mindjuju | yup, that' s it |
| 18:57.09 | mindjuju | spanish hip hop |
| 18:57.12 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 18:57.17 | mindjuju | i was bleeding out my ears when i heard it |
| 18:57.26 | macnewbold | funny thing is, my wife almost can't tell whether they're rapping in english or spanish... |
| 18:57.31 | macnewbold | sometimes I can't either |
| 18:57.38 | macnewbold | not like it makes much difference, it's crap either way |
| 18:57.58 | mindjuju | true that |
| 18:58.07 | mindjuju | techno and breakbeats rules supreme ! |
| 18:58.31 | mindjuju | hey, when is the next uphpu meet and do we have a speaker for it? |
| 19:00.29 | macnewbold | I have no idea |
| 19:00.49 | macnewbold | it is supposed to be on thursday the 15th of march, |
| 19:00.54 | macnewbold | but I'm taking the kids to disney on ice that night :) |
| 19:01.30 | mindjuju | yeah, i thought it was next Thursday |
| 19:01.44 | mindjuju | i think optikal and swb were going to do SEO opt weren't they? |
| 19:02.47 | macnewbold | cool |
| 19:02.52 | macnewbold | ~summon swb |
| 19:02.53 | jbot | apt takes out 20 clean, identical-looking phones, some extra hands, and pretends to be a telemarketer for a large corporation, so he gets delivered a phonelist containing swb's coordinates |
| 19:02.55 | macnewbold | ~conjure optikal |
| 19:05.09 | mindjuju | i think synic should do the next meet |
| 19:06.05 | dataw0lf | http://news.com.com/2300-1043_3-6165368-1.html?tag=ne.gall.pg |
| 19:06.08 | dataw0lf | thank you god |
| 19:06.14 | dataw0lf | I WANT TO BE JACKED IN! |
| 19:07.30 | mindjuju | dataw0lf, have you watched any of the x files? |
| 19:08.27 | mindjuju | cause there is a really cool one called "kill switch" about some crazy uber hackers that actually find a way to plug in |
| 19:12.38 | thebigdog | and kill each other |
| 19:14.19 | mindjuju | well, didn't want to say too much in case he ahsn't seen it yet |
| 19:14.20 | mindjuju | it's actually worth watching, and I think REALLY cool |
| 19:14.24 | dataw0lf | yea, I got it |
| 19:14.38 | dataw0lf | (it's written by William Gibson and Tom Maddox) |
| 19:14.46 | mindjuju | yup |
| 19:15.13 | dataw0lf | you seen "First Person Shooter" ? |
| 19:15.15 | dataw0lf | they wrote that too |
| 19:15.28 | mindjuju | i saw that one, but didn't like that nearly as much |
| 19:15.45 | dataw0lf | yea, kill switch was better. |
| 19:17.10 | dataw0lf | jeez, I wish the CI website would come back up |
| 19:17.24 | Utah_Dave | whatcha need, dataw0lf |
| 19:17.39 | dataw0lf | the forums |
| 19:21.31 | Utah_Dave | Hm, yeah, they're helpful |
| 19:21.54 | macnewbold | dataw0lf: google cache? |
| 19:22.14 | macnewbold | is the server down, or just your route to it is fubar atm? |
| 19:22.52 | Utah_Dave | they're down for maintenance or something |
| 19:32.05 | *** join/#uphpu _psychic_ (n=_psychic@71.32.228.156) |
| 19:32.05 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v _psychic_] by ChanServ |
| 19:37.45 | Utah_Dave | http://www.monzy.com/intro/killdashnine_lyrics.html |
| 19:44.11 | Utah_Dave | later everyone. I'm off early today! |
| 19:44.13 | *** part/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 19:53.39 | timinator | anyone want to help on a simple apache mod_rewrite? |
| 19:53.47 | mgeary | sure |
| 19:53.51 | mgeary | what's up? |
| 19:54.26 | timinator | I'm trying to get all https traffic to route to an http connection |
| 19:54.31 | timinator | for all domains |
| 19:54.46 | mgeary | uhh |
| 19:54.47 | timinator | (cause I don't have the ips and certs setup properly |
| 19:55.18 | mgeary | so, you're proxying the :80 site via :443? |
| 19:55.27 | timinator | so, I adapted one that I wrote for something else... and wrote this: |
| 19:55.33 | timinator | <VirtualHost 166.70.184.202:443> |
| 19:55.33 | timinator | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:55.34 | timinator | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:55.34 | timinator | </VirtualHost> |
| 19:55.40 | timinator | but that's not working |
| 19:55.56 | timinator | right... all 443 traffic routed to 80 |
| 19:56.01 | mgeary | so, you want to redirect? or proxy? |
| 19:56.12 | timinator | .... I dunno |
| 19:56.40 | dataw0lf | do you want to just any traffic going to port 443 to port 80? or do you want to proxy it through Apache? |
| 19:56.43 | timinator | proxy means that it appears to be an https connection when it's not? |
| 19:57.09 | *** join/#uphpu burnin (n=burnin@hongkong.machinage.com) |
| 19:57.15 | mgeary | essentially, yes. though when you say the certs aren't in place... |
| 19:57.18 | dataw0lf | proxy would be fairly useless in this |
| 19:57.29 | mgeary | then it won't really be https, right? they won't see a "lock" icon |
| 19:57.50 | mgeary | what's your objective? People are going to https when they should be going to http? |
| 19:57.54 | timinator | proxy is fine then... no lock is necessary |
| 19:58.11 | timinator | mgeary: yes |
| 19:58.24 | mgeary | okay, then don't proxy |
| 19:58.29 | dataw0lf | just have apache listen on 443 as well as 80 |
| 19:58.33 | mgeary | yeah |
| 19:58.34 | timinator | but it's temporary.... they'll need to connect to https in another day or so |
| 19:58.52 | timinator | how is that done? |
| 19:59.07 | bradym | I would just do this for now: |
| 19:59.07 | bradym | <VirtualHost 166.70.184.202:443> |
| 19:59.07 | bradym | Redirect / 166.70.184.202:80 |
| 19:59.07 | bradym | </VirtualHost> |
| 19:59.48 | timinator | nice |
| 20:00.10 | bradym | Then when https is working properly just delete that redirect line and replace with the proper DocumentRoot and everything |
| 20:00.46 | bradym | i'm using that to do the opposite on one site.. if they don't type in https it redirects them to the https site |
| 20:02.07 | timinator | that didn't work |
| 20:02.44 | timinator | do I need anything else in there? |
| 20:02.52 | timinator | RewriteEngine on perhaps? |
| 20:02.53 | mgeary | bradym: your fix throws an error, at least in Safari |
| 20:03.13 | mgeary | timinator: what's it doing now? did you restart apache? |
| 20:03.15 | bradym | yeah, in firefox too - let me look at my setup again |
| 20:03.29 | timinator | mgeary: yes |
| 20:03.32 | mgeary | bradym: try putting the http:// before the ip |
| 20:03.39 | timinator | https://my.konecnybros.com/ should route to http://my.konecnybros.com/ |
| 20:03.39 | dataw0lf | make sure mod_alias is on |
| 20:03.54 | bradym | yeah, you probably need the http:// |
| 20:04.05 | timinator | mod_alias.... 1 min |
| 20:04.55 | mgeary | timinator: one sec. i'll do this on my server... |
| 20:05.22 | bradym | timinator: try this.. |
| 20:05.24 | bradym | <VirtualHost 166.70.184.202:443> |
| 20:05.24 | bradym | ServerName my.konecnybros.com |
| 20:05.24 | bradym | Redirect / http://my.konecnybros.com/ |
| 20:05.24 | bradym | </VirtualHost> |
| 20:06.34 | bradym | not sure if the ServerName is required, but it definitely won't hurt anything to have it there |
| 20:07.25 | timinator | that's a no go... 1 sec, checking on that mod_alias |
| 20:08.22 | dataw0lf | apache2ctl -l |
| 20:09.11 | timinator | I have "Listen 80" in the conf.... do I need "Listen 443" as well? |
| 20:09.21 | bradym | yes |
| 20:09.42 | timinator | (my old server didn't have that, and it ran 443 traffic) |
| 20:10.01 | bradym | check to see if you have a httpd-ssl.conf being included - that's usually where the "Listen 443" is located |
| 20:10.13 | timinator | oh |
| 20:10.20 | mgeary | ahh |
| 20:10.22 | mgeary | here's the thing |
| 20:10.28 | mgeary | watch: |
| 20:10.34 | mgeary | http://my.konecnybros.com:443 |
| 20:10.35 | mgeary | that works |
| 20:10.38 | mgeary | but this doesn't: |
| 20:10.43 | mgeary | https://my.konecnybros.com/ |
| 20:10.50 | mgeary | because you're *requesting* a secure connection |
| 20:11.01 | mgeary | not sure how to trap around that |
| 20:11.29 | timinator | hmm |
| 20:11.44 | mgeary | see what i mean? |
| 20:11.51 | timinator | ya |
| 20:12.05 | mgeary | so, i'll sit back and wait for a ssl expert to step forward :) |
| 20:12.07 | timinator | so my server's listening correctly and stuff |
| 20:12.09 | mgeary | yeah |
| 20:12.32 | timinator | and it's performing the redirect properly |
| 20:12.33 | dataw0lf | for all you design lovers out there |
| 20:12.42 | dataw0lf | http://www.37signals.com/svn/posts/298-animation-of-a-samuel-l-jackson-pulp-fiction-speech-in-type? (extremely bad language, though) |
| 20:17.33 | bradym | timinator: you find the httpd-ssl.conf file? I think the problem might have to do with the ServerName not being set in the VirtualHost definition in that file |
| 20:17.55 | bradym | just a guess though... i'm definitely NOT an ssl expert ;) |
| 20:18.20 | timinator | I do have that file... it's the one I've been working with |
| 20:18.39 | timinator | it's small... I'll paste |
| 20:19.03 | timinator | <IfModule mod_ssl.c> |
| 20:19.03 | timinator | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:19.04 | timinator | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:19.04 | timinator | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:19.04 | timinator | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:19.04 | timinator | </IfModule> |
| 20:19.37 | bradym | wow.. that is a small file ;) |
| 20:19.46 | timinator | the rest is commented out |
| 20:22.11 | timinator | ~wake thebigdog |
| 20:22.12 | jbot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on thebigdog and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" |
| 20:22.33 | timinator | "BY THE HAMMER OF THOR, WAKE THE BIGDOG" |
| 20:23.31 | mgeary | By Grabthar's Hammer, by the Sons of Warvan, YOU WILL BE AVENGED |
| 20:24.26 | dataw0lf | Sword of Omens, give me sight - beyond sight |
| 20:24.40 | thebigdog | with your rewrite try this: RewriteCond %{SERVER_PORT} ^443$ |
| 20:24.40 | thebigdog | RewriteRule (.*) http://www.example.com/$1 [R=301,L] |
| 20:26.04 | timinator | LOL |
| 20:26.25 | mgeary | ? |
| 20:28.31 | thebigdog | you know what i mean |
| 20:29.17 | timinator | ya, that's a no go though..... |
| 20:29.21 | timinator | I'll paste |
| 20:29.40 | timinator | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:29.40 | timinator | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:29.40 | timinator | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:29.40 | timinator | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:29.40 | timinator | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:29.52 | timinator | (that's w/o the if clause) |
| 20:30.33 | thebigdog | k add the following to that |
| 20:30.46 | thebigdog | RewriteLog "/var/log/rewrite.log" |
| 20:30.53 | thebigdog | RewriteLogLevel 3 |
| 20:31.03 | thebigdog | as root touch that file |
| 20:31.10 | thebigdog | touch /var/log/rewrite.log |
| 20:31.27 | thebigdog | and then restart apache and check that log file when you access the url |
| 20:31.33 | thebigdog | see what the rewrite is doing |
| 20:36.45 | timinator | got all that.... but it's not writing any errors |
| 20:38.29 | beandog | hey macnewbold did you go to that soup place? |
| 20:38.45 | dataw0lf | it's not 'that soup place' |
| 20:38.49 | dataw0lf | it's THE soup place |
| 20:38.51 | beandog | ah. |
| 20:38.53 | mgeary | anyone here use PEAR's QuickForm? |
| 20:38.59 | beandog | that there soup place |
| 20:56.56 | mgeary | so, if no other QuickForm users are here, what do you guys use for compact, portable form validation? |
| 21:01.55 | jsmith | Form validation? That's so 1999... |
| 21:02.17 | macnewbold | javascript is the best form validation, cause it is immediate |
| 21:02.46 | jsmith | macnewbold: But it's easily subverted :-) |
| 21:02.51 | mgeary | yeah, QF offers automatic JS and server-side validation |
| 21:03.06 | macnewbold | I was totally joking |
| 21:03.10 | macnewbold | I hate JS for form validation |
| 21:03.15 | macnewbold | you always have to do it server side |
| 21:03.17 | mgeary | it's very useful |
| 21:03.27 | mgeary | for initial trapping of erorrs |
| 21:03.28 | jsmith | I like AJAXified server-side validation. |
| 21:03.37 | mgeary | well, yeah, that'd be good |
| 21:03.41 | macnewbold | you can add the js if you want for the look and feel stuff, but you must do it server site to make it secure |
| 21:03.49 | macnewbold | even ajax validation won't save you |
| 21:03.56 | jsmith | Don't wait until they filled out the *whole* stinkin' form to tell them their username is already in use. |
| 21:04.05 | jsmith | macnewbold: I know... you still have to validate server-side |
| 21:04.07 | macnewbold | unless you combine it with real server side validation when the data actually gets submitted |
| 21:04.09 | mgeary | right. now that we've all agreed that we all agree... ;), do you all use hand-rolled solutions? |
| 21:04.32 | mgeary | QF is actually very nice |
| 21:04.32 | macnewbold | I usually do, yeah, though generally reused from another project when possible |
| 21:06.31 | mgeary | ah well |
| 21:07.03 | macnewbold | sorry :( |
| 21:07.11 | macnewbold | "if you want something done right..." |
| 21:07.16 | mgeary | no worries. just wanted to bounce some ideas around |
| 21:08.24 | mgeary | but QF really is very useful. It unobtrusively allows you to output and validate all kinds of form elements. And it can be extended in all kinds of ways |
| 21:08.37 | mgeary | and it integrates nicely with Smarty :) |
| 21:37.04 | dataw0lf | hmmm |
| 21:37.35 | dataw0lf | ~onjoin dataw0lf Everyone hide their Perl! |
| 21:37.35 | jbot | dataw0lf: ok |
| 21:46.54 | _psychic_ | ~rlart |
| 21:47.25 | mgeary | ~roulette 6 |
| 21:47.27 | jbot | ACTION watches 6 pull the trigger: BANG! |
| 21:47.36 | _psychic_ | haha |
| 21:47.38 | mgeary | ah well |
| 21:47.39 | _psychic_ | ~roulette 6 |
| 21:47.40 | jbot | ACTION watches 6 pull the trigger: BANG! |
| 21:47.47 | _psychic_ | wait a minute... |
| 21:47.50 | _psychic_ | ~roulette _psychic_ |
| 21:47.51 | jbot | ACTION watches _psychic_ pull the trigger: BANG! |
| 21:47.57 | dataw0lf | ~play roulette |
| 21:47.59 | jbot | ACTION slowly presses the trigger, misses, and shoots herself in the foot instead. |
| 21:48.00 | mgeary | the gig is rigget |
| 21:48.01 | mgeary | rigged |
| 21:48.03 | _psychic_ | something tells me this is a 1-shooter |
| 21:48.09 | dataw0lf | ~play roulette |
| 21:48.10 | jbot | ACTION slowly presses the trigger, misses, and shoots herself in the foot instead. |
| 21:48.14 | dataw0lf | dang it |
| 22:16.07 | thebigdog | ~roulette dataw0lf |
| 22:16.08 | jbot | ACTION watches dataw0lf pull the trigger: BANG! |
| 22:24.51 | mindjuju | ~rlart |
| 22:25.05 | mindjuju | ~wiseguy jbot |
| 22:25.06 | jbot | ACTION runs up to jbot and pokes jbot in the eyes! |
| 22:28.29 | macnewbold | it's about time mj got his own rlart :) |
| 22:29.00 | macnewbold | ~roulette mindjuju |
| 22:29.02 | jbot | ACTION watches mindjuju pull the trigger: BANG! |
| 22:29.08 | macnewbold | yeah, that's a one shooter I think |
| 22:29.10 | macnewbold | ~roulette |
| 22:29.12 | jbot | ACTION watches macnewbold pull the trigger: Click! |
| 22:29.17 | macnewbold | but that one works |
| 22:29.42 | mindjuju | one shooter? |
| 22:29.49 | mindjuju | what you talking bout willis? |
| 22:30.00 | macnewbold | revolver with only one chamber |
| 22:30.09 | macnewbold | you might as well play russian roulette with a semi-automatic |
| 22:30.10 | mindjuju | oh |
| 22:30.20 | mindjuju | that's why i prefer this one |
| 22:30.22 | macnewbold | (1-shooter as opposed to the usual 6-shooter) |
| 22:30.26 | mindjuju | ~crackskulls macnewbold |
| 22:30.27 | jbot | ACTION grabs macnewbold and mgeary 's heads and slams them together knocking both unconscious. Jbot then turns to mindjuju to see who else needs a wallop. |
| 22:30.49 | mindjuju | quick, painless, lethal, crackskulls is the way to go |
| 22:31.01 | _psychic_ | there are worse things that death. |
| 22:31.04 | _psychic_ | ~phit mindjuju |
| 22:31.06 | jbot | ACTION wiggles his fingers mindjuju's direction. You now have a strong conviction that you need to write your next website in x86 ASM. |
| 22:31.08 | _psychic_ | *than |
| 22:31.17 | _psychic_ | There's a decent example. |
| 22:31.28 | mindjuju | here's one that's pretty good too |
| 22:31.35 | mindjuju | ~bobbarker _psychic_ |
| 22:31.36 | jbot | ACTION grabs _psychic_ by the left hind leg and with the other hand prepares to neuter _psychic_! Guess _psychic_ won't be needing THESE THINGS anymore! |
| 22:31.51 | _psychic_ | whaaaaaat the.... |
| 22:32.01 | _psychic_ | gross |
| 22:32.04 | mindjuju | heh |
| 22:32.09 | mindjuju | just made it the other day |
| 22:32.16 | _psychic_ | And please don't tell me why it's called "bobbarker" |
| 22:33.17 | mindjuju | well, that part isn't bad |
| 22:33.38 | mindjuju | it's called bob barker cause bob barker always says at the end of price is right, to spay or neuter your pets |
| 22:34.03 | mindjuju | it's actually written for the beasty type names of the irc channel |
| 22:34.14 | _psychic_ | weird. |
| 22:34.15 | mindjuju | thebigdog , beandog , dataw0lf , |
| 22:37.53 | beandog | yo |
| 22:38.00 | *** join/#uphpu PoeticIntensity (n=jason@70.96.176.13) |
| 22:38.11 | PoeticIntensity | hawwo. |
| 22:39.59 | PoeticIntensity | wow.... crazy activity going on here today. |
| 22:40.05 | PoeticIntensity | will you guys just be quiet? |
| 22:40.12 | PoeticIntensity | I'm trying to maintain a conversation here! |
| 22:40.13 | mgeary | it was cool. we even discussed PHP |
| 22:40.22 | mgeary | well, a bit |
| 22:40.23 | PoeticIntensity | serious? |
| 22:40.40 | PoeticIntensity | now, THAT is just crazy talk. |
| 22:40.46 | beandog | yomes. |
| 22:40.52 | mgeary | well, you know, we didn't actually get into CODE, or actual methodologies or anything |
| 22:41.03 | PoeticIntensity | hmm..... |
| 22:41.04 | PoeticIntensity | then... |
| 22:41.07 | PoeticIntensity | does it count? |
| 22:41.10 | PoeticIntensity | (hi bean) |
| 22:41.14 | PoeticIntensity | 'sup? |
| 22:41.17 | PoeticIntensity | did ya get your car yet? |
| 22:41.18 | PoeticIntensity | ;-) |
| 22:41.26 | beandog | no |
| 22:41.30 | PoeticIntensity | sweeeeeeeeet ride....... :) |
| 22:41.34 | beandog | dont tempt me, jerk |
| 22:41.42 | PoeticIntensity | I saw an eclipse just the a couple of hours ago. |
| 22:41.47 | PoeticIntensity | same color as yours. |
| 22:41.53 | PoeticIntensity | kinda off-white / silverish... |
| 22:41.56 | PoeticIntensity | *really* cool color. |
| 22:42.05 | beandog | yah |
| 22:42.07 | beandog | they are funky looking |
| 22:42.11 | PoeticIntensity | quite... |
| 22:42.19 | PoeticIntensity | if the whole car was that color, it'd look stupid... |
| 22:42.26 | PoeticIntensity | but since there are chrome highlights 'n' junk.... |
| 22:42.30 | PoeticIntensity | really makes it look good. |
| 22:42.38 | PoeticIntensity | holy crap, I'm bored... |
| 22:42.39 | PoeticIntensity | and I shouldn't be. |
| 22:42.40 | PoeticIntensity | ever. |
| 22:42.45 | PoeticIntensity | WAY too much work to do. |
| 22:43.12 | PoeticIntensity | c'mon dataw0lf.... get some controversy goin' on in here. |
| 22:43.25 | PoeticIntensity | also...... |
| 22:43.29 | PoeticIntensity | just in case ya'll are wondering... |
| 22:43.31 | _psychic_ | anyone here develop on a mac? |
| 22:43.32 | PoeticIntensity | which, I know you aren't.. |
| 22:43.50 | PoeticIntensity | I did some research on the Salt Flats.. |
| 22:44.04 | PoeticIntensity | it's perfectly legal to speed there. :) |
| 22:44.12 | PoeticIntensity | yes.... I know... any idiot knows that... but I had to be sure. |
| 22:44.23 | PoeticIntensity | and... it's verified. |
| 22:44.36 | PoeticIntensity | gonna have a blast come the 17th.... w00t! |
| 22:44.56 | PoeticIntensity | _psychic_ I develop on Linux. :) |
| 22:44.58 | com4 | what's a good shared hosting company with lots of bandwidth the give on the cheap? |
| 22:44.58 | PoeticIntensity | Does that count? |
| 22:45.08 | mgeary | _psychic_: i do |
| 22:45.14 | _psychic_ | sometimes yes, but not in this partiular instance |
| 22:45.20 | PoeticIntensity | I see. |
| 22:45.23 | _psychic_ | mgeary: what do you use to code? |
| 22:45.24 | mgeary | com4: Dreamhost |
| 22:45.36 | mgeary | i used to use BBedit, but i have recently migrated to TextMate |
| 22:45.37 | _psychic_ | PoeticIntensity: there's lost of linux/mac crossover |
| 22:45.43 | _psychic_ | I'm loving TM |
| 22:45.45 | PoeticIntensity | yup. |
| 22:45.48 | PoeticIntensity | Unix, baby. |
| 22:45.49 | mgeary | yeah, but the diff sucks |
| 22:45.55 | _psychic_ | there's new PHP bundle stuff I'm just learning |
| 22:45.56 | mgeary | bbedit has an awesome diff |
| 22:46.03 | _psychic_ | I use svn |
| 22:46.11 | mgeary | me too |
| 22:46.11 | _psychic_ | what do you mean? |
| 22:46.14 | mgeary | compare 2 documents |
| 22:46.22 | mgeary | TM uses /usr/bin/diff, or whatever |
| 22:46.33 | mgeary | bbedit has a really great interface for doc compares |
| 22:46.36 | PoeticIntensity | the program I use is cross-compatible with all 3 OSes. |
| 22:46.38 | mgeary | i'll show ya... |
| 22:46.49 | PoeticIntensity | not sure what the consensus on it is here, but... as far as I'm concerned, jEdit rocks. |
| 22:46.52 | mgeary | http://166.70.44.60/download/bbdiff.png |
| 22:46.57 | _psychic_ | eclipse sucks |
| 22:46.58 | PoeticIntensity | heh... |
| 22:46.59 | mgeary | jEdit is too slow on a Mac |
| 22:47.04 | _psychic_ | there. |
| 22:47.08 | PoeticIntensity | ya know, bigdog, I'd use eclipse, but all the dev I do is remote. |
| 22:47.09 | _psychic_ | I said it. |
| 22:47.12 | com4 | mgeary: thanks |
| 22:47.13 | PoeticIntensity | I don't do anything on my local machine... |
| 22:47.17 | PoeticIntensity | and eclipse doesn't do that. |
| 22:47.18 | _psychic_ | PoeticIntensity: that's reason number one it sucks |
| 22:47.20 | PoeticIntensity | which royally sucks. |
| 22:47.22 | thebigdog | PoeticIntensity, it can do remote with no issuse |
| 22:47.24 | _psychic_ | amen |
| 22:47.31 | PoeticIntensity | you'll have to come teach me. |
| 22:47.33 | mgeary | com4: hang on, i can get you a bargain on DH if you want |
| 22:47.40 | thebigdog | ftp, sftp, webdav |
| 22:47.43 | mgeary | if i refer you, you can save heaps |
| 22:47.47 | PoeticIntensity | I've had two Eclipse gurus personally try to do what it is I need it to, and.... no dice. |
| 22:47.50 | _psychic_ | with that extra plugin, thebigdog ? |
| 22:47.52 | mgeary | but i've never set that up before |
| 22:47.56 | _psychic_ | RSE, or whatever |
| 22:48.22 | PoeticIntensity | thebigdog: honestly.... I wanted to fall in love with Eclipse... |
| 22:48.26 | PoeticIntensity | but it didn't want me. |
| 22:48.45 | PoeticIntensity | I've heard so many good things about it, I didn't wanna miss out... |
| 22:48.55 | _psychic_ | I don't think its the best for PHP. |
| 22:49.00 | PoeticIntensity | yet.. alas.... Eclipse just wouldn't help me out. |
| 22:49.07 | PoeticIntensity | jEdit rocks for PHP. |
| 22:49.15 | PoeticIntensity | for me, at least. |
| 22:49.16 | _psychic_ | Zend Studio is kinda eclipse like |
| 22:49.21 | PoeticIntensity | right. |
| 22:49.23 | timinator | later guys |
| 22:49.25 | PoeticIntensity | I've heard good things about that, too. |
| 22:49.28 | timinator | I'm out |
| 22:49.29 | PoeticIntensity | chao, timinator. |
| 22:49.31 | com4 | mgeary: k, what's your refer number... it's not for me, it's for a friend but i'll make sure he uses your id |
| 22:49.31 | thebigdog | cause it is built on eclipse |
| 22:49.32 | optikal | In JavaScript, what is the name of the parent window? (If your on a page, and you spawn a new popup, I want to reference the parent page that spawned the popup) |
| 22:49.58 | PoeticIntensity | thebigdog: Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you *really* like eclipse. |
| 22:50.07 | thebigdog | yeah i use it for all langs |
| 22:50.17 | thebigdog | java, php, python, ruby and c/c++ |
| 22:50.23 | thebigdog | and all my scripting too |
| 22:50.24 | PoeticIntensity | awesome. |
| 22:50.25 | _psychic_ | too bloated for me |
| 22:50.34 | _psychic_ | its unwieldy |
| 22:50.53 | PoeticIntensity | You'll have to help me understand how to get it to work on individual scripts (remote), and not entire projects... |
| 22:50.58 | PoeticIntensity | I'd love to use it, actually. |
| 22:51.11 | thebigdog | team sync and diffs are killer |
| 22:51.19 | thebigdog | not to mention cvs and svn support rocks |
| 22:51.24 | PoeticIntensity | jEdit has a *very* nice diff, as well. |
| 22:51.28 | PoeticIntensity | saved my bacon a number of times. |
| 22:52.41 | mgeary | okay, com4 if you use promo code "uphpu" you'll get $40 off a 1-year contract |
| 22:52.44 | thebigdog | its got some great features |
| 22:53.22 | thebigdog | i love the sql support too very nice |
| 22:53.34 | tierra | I've tried diff with BBEdit... it's about 2nd worst in my book... right above FileMerge |
| 22:53.45 | mgeary | tierra: what do you use? |
| 22:53.56 | mgeary | ah, well |
| 22:54.07 | mgeary | i've heard that BeyondCompare is good |
| 22:54.13 | mgeary | but we're talking OS X here |
| 22:54.14 | tierra | never heard of it |
| 22:54.21 | mgeary | i've got no beefs with BBedit's diff |
| 22:54.45 | _psychic_ | mgeary: does BBedit have any PHP integration stuff? completion/hints/etc |
| 22:55.01 | mgeary | not the same way that TM does. that's largely why i migrated |
| 22:55.12 | mgeary | TM is awesome at context-sensitive actions |
| 22:55.18 | _psychic_ | yeah |
| 22:55.22 | _psychic_ | I like the block editing |
| 22:55.27 | _psychic_ | macros, snippets |
| 22:55.27 | com4 | mgeary: cool. thanks |
| 22:55.35 | mgeary | i can type "fn<tab>" in any language, and i get a function shell appropriate for my current lang |
| 22:55.49 | mgeary | i've had to tweak some of the bundles, but that's not bad |
| 22:56.06 | mgeary | but the non-chunked undo drives me crazy |
| 22:57.08 | thebigdog | _psychic_ eclispe can do that too |
| 22:58.00 | _psychic_ | thebigdog: do what? |
| 22:58.01 | tierra | mgeary: I figured since you were mentioning all Mac apps for diff and text edit that BeyondCompare was also Mac OS X... heh |
| 22:58.11 | mgeary | ah, no |
| 22:58.17 | _psychic_ | mgeary: I like the terminal command too |
| 22:58.18 | mgeary | bbedit is the best OS X comparer i've used |
| 22:58.18 | thebigdog | macro, snippets and other editing like that |
| 22:58.27 | mgeary | _psychic_: bbedit has terminal commands |
| 22:58.30 | _psychic_ | mgeary: nice |
| 22:58.45 | _psychic_ | thebigdog: context sensitive ones that are scriptable? |
| 22:58.56 | thebigdog | like what? |
| 22:59.30 | tierra | kinda was hoping it was going to be a solution I could use on Mac (I do development on Mac, Windows, and Linux), but yeah, for Windows, it looks poor compared to WinMerge |
| 22:59.56 | _psychic_ | thebigdog: like mgeary's example of an fx snippet being language sensitive |
| 23:00.14 | mgeary | also, that in TM you can set keypoints in a snippet and tab through them |
| 23:00.21 | _psychic_ | yep |
| 23:00.33 | mgeary | so fn<tab> creates the function, and then <tab> takes you to the fn name, then <tab> takes you to the params |
| 23:00.33 | mgeary | etc |
| 23:00.47 | tierra | since I have a Windows box right next to the Mac that I do all my dev on, I just end up moving files back forth as needed... which can sometimes be a pain, but it works for now |
| 23:01.56 | tierra | this is funny, because it's exactly what I'm doing right now... I have WinMerge open on some files I'm trying to fix to compile in GCC on the Mac :) |
| 23:13.32 | dataw0lf | http://www.stderr.ws/blog/entry/8/ |
| 23:13.35 | dataw0lf | Truly, Django rocks. |
| 23:15.55 | dataw0lf | dang it, I should've done a wiki: http://e-scribe.com/news/171 |
| 23:15.59 | dataw0lf | that's much cooler :\ |
| 23:29.46 | PoeticIntensity | welcome to the discussion, dataw0lf. |
| 23:29.47 | PoeticIntensity | :) |
| 23:30.16 | dataw0lf | what were we discussing? |
| 23:30.24 | PoeticIntensity | editors. |
| 23:30.30 | dataw0lf | vim |
| 23:30.33 | dataw0lf | I'm done. |
| 23:30.33 | PoeticIntensity | and a bunch of nothing. |
| 23:30.47 | PoeticIntensity | I wish I knew vim well enough to use it as it is supposed to be used. |
| 23:30.49 | PoeticIntensity | honestly. |
| 23:30.53 | _psychic_ | vim's nice |
| 23:30.54 | PoeticIntensity | it rocks. |
| 23:30.58 | PoeticIntensity | but I don't. |
| 23:30.58 | PoeticIntensity | :-( |
| 23:31.00 | PoeticIntensity | yet. |
| 23:31.09 | dataw0lf | force yourself to do so |
| 23:31.41 | PoeticIntensity | I need to |
| 23:33.47 | beandog | vim is great |
| 23:33.54 | beandog | and its everywhere |
| 23:34.54 | PoeticIntensity | I'm outta here. |
| 23:35.53 | dataw0lf | cha cha cha |
| 23:35.56 | dataw0lf | cha cha cha |
| 23:40.14 | beandog | mmm |
| 23:40.20 | beandog | I love designing database schemas |
| 23:40.21 | thebigdog | _psychic_ and mgeary eclipse will do that tab for you as well and you have full control over where you want the tabs to stop |
| 23:40.21 | beandog | :) |
| 23:40.47 | _psychic_ | huh? |
| 23:43.18 | thebigdog | is kernel.org down? |
| 23:46.08 | beandog | doesnt load for me |
| 23:46.53 | thebigdog | man |
| 23:52.56 | *** join/#uphpu _psychic__ (n=_psychic@71.32.228.156) |
