| 00:03.26 | Lone_Wanderer | I guess you could. |
| 00:03.41 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm just looking for something that means there's a lot of rows in it though, not necessarily that it's completely totally full. |
| 00:03.49 | macnewbold | Lone_Wanderer: opposite of sparse is dense |
| 00:04.12 | macnewbold | but that's different than "lots of rows" |
| 00:04.36 | Lone_Wanderer | k |
| 00:05.01 | Lone_Wanderer | I just needed a word for "If we did it that way, the number of rows in the many to many table would grow exponentially" |
| 00:05.08 | Lone_Wanderer | Only in one word instead of... more than one. |
| 00:08.28 | macnewbold | "unscalable"? |
| 00:08.37 | macnewbold | "scales exponentially"? |
| 00:08.45 | macnewbold | "scales poorly"? |
| 00:09.28 | mindjuju | i used asymptote in a meeting recently |
| 00:09.42 | mindjuju | to describe exponential climb |
| 00:10.02 | macnewbold | right, where it approaches a particular line without ever crossing it |
| 00:10.08 | mindjuju | exactly |
| 00:10.08 | macnewbold | or arriving at it |
| 00:10.59 | mindjuju | seems like I was talking about ROI where if we continued the same path, we'd increasingly spend more money with minimal return of quality |
| 00:11.14 | mindjuju | and the quality goal never achieved |
| 00:12.10 | macnewbold | right, diminishing returns |
| 00:12.30 | mindjuju | exactly |
| 00:12.36 | mindjuju | i loved first year econ |
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| 00:13.07 | mindjuju | sup utah_dave |
| 00:13.31 | Utah_Dave | not much. slept most of today. Not feeling too well |
| 00:13.45 | mindjuju | sorry to hear that. maybe this will help you feel better |
| 00:13.52 | mindjuju | ~crackskull utah_dave |
| 00:14.07 | mindjuju | ~crackskulls utah_dave |
| 00:14.09 | jbot | ACTION grabs utah_dave and Black_Chaos 's heads and slams them together knocking both unconscious. Jbot then turns to mindjuju to see who else needs a wallop. |
| 00:14.26 | Utah_Dave | ;) |
| 00:14.28 | Lone_Wanderer | I like to use asymptote to describe software development |
| 00:14.37 | Lone_Wanderer | because no matter how many features you add, they still want more |
| 00:14.53 | Lone_Wanderer | the line being "feature complete" |
| 00:15.21 | mindjuju | true that Lone_Wanderer -- scope creep can be a nightmare for all but macnewbold |
| 00:15.38 | Utah_Dave | scope creep is a coders hell |
| 00:15.57 | mindjuju | mac's got the plan on how to cash scope creep into bank |
| 00:16.03 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 00:16.15 | macnewbold | the key is that the client gets what they pay for :) |
| 00:16.44 | macnewbold | if they want to creep scope, that's fine, but price and timeline creep right along with it |
| 00:17.31 | mindjuju | that's beautiful. i've got to develop a similar practice in my business before I go back to doing consulting on the side |
| 00:17.38 | Utah_Dave | my problem is that I'm an employee and they think because I'm on salary I can somehow create world peace with a little intranet app |
| 00:17.53 | mindjuju | heh, i know the feeling |
| 00:18.07 | macnewbold | yeah, that one can be dangerous... they want to equate salary with unlimited time |
| 00:18.11 | Utah_Dave | military officers think they're in a battle zone all the time and can require you to work 24 hours a day |
| 00:18.51 | Lone_Wanderer | If I want to make animations and put them online... what's a good tool to use for that? |
| 00:18.52 | macnewbold | just say you're a civ and that you're allowed to sleep |
| 00:19.14 | macnewbold | animated gif is one way, Lone_Wanderer - depends quite what you're after though |
| 00:19.17 | Lone_Wanderer | I was thinking flash but I think it might have more to it than I really need |
| 00:19.33 | Lone_Wanderer | I was thinking more along the lines of an animated short, complete with sounds and things. |
| 00:19.33 | mindjuju | what kind of animation are you looking for? |
| 00:19.44 | Lone_Wanderer | Just a short cartoon. |
| 00:19.45 | macnewbold | if you don't have a ton of frames, you can do it with JavaScript too, using any image format |
| 00:19.50 | macnewbold | ah, sound |
| 00:20.07 | macnewbold | I'd go either with flash or some movie format probably, as none of the image/animation formats have sound |
| 00:20.14 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah |
| 00:20.16 | Lone_Wanderer | meh, okay |
| 00:20.16 | mindjuju | yeah |
| 00:20.25 | macnewbold | sorry :) |
| 00:20.26 | Lone_Wanderer | Which of course means I need to buy flash. |
| 00:20.28 | Utah_Dave | I am a civilian and I actually told one guy to kiss off. They aren't my direct bosses so I don't really care |
| 00:20.43 | Lone_Wanderer | I'll live. It's just got a ton of scripting stuff in it that isn't necessary if all you want is to do a little clip. |
| 00:20.52 | Lone_Wanderer | Where do you work UTD? |
| 00:21.18 | mindjuju | he works at Area 51 |
| 00:21.25 | mindjuju | oh yeah, i mean Groom Lake |
| 00:21.42 | Utah_Dave | Camp Williams |
| 00:22.07 | Lone_Wanderer | The real problem with doing it with flash is that if I'm going to be drawing directly into the computer, I feel like I should get a tablet PC |
| 00:22.29 | Lone_Wanderer | Which all of a sudden makes the whole prospect a lot more expensive. |
| 00:22.42 | mindjuju | wouldn't a pen / tablet work? |
| 00:22.55 | mindjuju | seems like those were only like $100 for a good one |
| 00:22.58 | Lone_Wanderer | Camp Williams being a military base somewhere in Utah? |
| 00:23.07 | Utah_Dave | We were on the news a few years ago, but they weren't allowed to disclose our location. So the newscaster started off with "Somewhere in Utah..." |
| 00:23.07 | Lone_Wanderer | What do you mean, mindjuju? |
| 00:23.17 | Utah_Dave | It was hilarious |
| 00:23.30 | Lone_Wanderer | Can *you* disclose the location? |
| 00:23.54 | Utah_Dave | yeah, it's Camp Williams, across the valley from the Point of the Mountain |
| 00:23.59 | Lone_Wanderer | ok |
| 00:24.07 | Utah_Dave | sometimes you see Apache's flying in and out of there |
| 00:24.10 | Lone_Wanderer | I used to be a lab technician at the U of MN |
| 00:24.20 | Lone_Wanderer | in their agriculture department |
| 00:24.24 | mindjuju | Lone_Wanderer - http://shop4.outpost.com/search;jsessionid=iaiqD5XkugMlhwuBtWN5sQ**.node1?cat=-47432&pType=pDisplay |
| 00:24.32 | Lone_Wanderer | it just so happened that my lab was in the basement of a building |
| 00:24.52 | Lone_Wanderer | so I always told people that I worked in an underground la-bore-a-torrie |
| 00:25.01 | Utah_Dave | :) |
| 00:25.11 | Utah_Dave | mindjuju: I actually used to work for the FBI, too |
| 00:25.48 | Lone_Wanderer | mindjuju: ahhh, and these can be plugged into just a normal PC? Are they pressure sensitive? |
| 00:25.59 | mindjuju | did you like working for the FBI? |
| 00:26.06 | mindjuju | Yup, on the pressure sensitive |
| 00:26.45 | Lone_Wanderer | sweet |
| 00:26.52 | Lone_Wanderer | that's way better than buying a whole new comp :) |
| 00:26.52 | mindjuju | well, this one has it - http://shop4.outpost.com/product/4972361?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG |
| 00:27.09 | macnewbold | Lone_Wanderer: some of our designer friends use them - they're pretty good stuff |
| 00:27.20 | Lone_Wanderer | that's cool |
| 00:27.33 | mindjuju | yeah, now i couldn't tell you which one to get cause I can draw stick figures and that's about it |
| 00:27.39 | Utah_Dave | working for the FBI was pretty cool. I only left because my direct supervisors were idiots and there wasn't much of a chance of them leaving |
| 00:27.45 | mindjuju | and aside from installing one for a friend, that's the limit of my experience |
| 00:28.07 | macnewbold | hehe - that's probably true to one degree or another in all sorts of govt, military, and even some big corp. jobs... |
| 00:28.17 | mindjuju | yup |
| 00:30.16 | mindjuju | poor steve ballmer, he thinks nobody is buying Vista cause of bittorrent and pirates |
| 00:30.29 | mindjuju | i guess nobody has told him, 50% of apps don't work yet |
| 00:30.36 | Lone_Wanderer | He seriously thinks that people are pirating Vista? |
| 00:30.36 | mindjuju | and driver support is still gappy |
| 00:31.10 | mindjuju | yeah, they found a pretty effective bug that is allowing them to use it for free, though i'm sure MS will catch up and close it off |
| 00:31.32 | mindjuju | though, my understanding is that somehow a volume license got leaked for Office 2k7 and that is far worse |
| 00:31.35 | Utah_Dave | I just read that article, mindjuju I think balmer's crazy |
| 00:31.38 | Utah_Dave | later guys |
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| 00:31.49 | mindjuju | cause those don't call home to verify, AFAIK |
| 00:33.14 | macnewbold | that, and Office is their real cash cow - Windows is just their leverage for maintaining monopoly |
| 00:33.43 | Lone_Wanderer | Speaking of Office. |
| 00:33.48 | Lone_Wanderer | Is Visio available for Mac? |
| 00:34.03 | Lone_Wanderer | I may just buy a copy. This dia thing is like fisher price in comparison. |
| 00:34.14 | mindjuju | hmmm... i don't know about that |
| 00:34.27 | mindjuju | though it seems like the other day, somebody mentioned a visio prog for mac |
| 00:34.34 | Lone_Wanderer | It was me. |
| 00:34.35 | mindjuju | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:35.01 | Lone_Wanderer | I installed it. |
| 00:35.02 | mindjuju | ah, i thought i read it in here, but i'm on 3 other channels, so i didn't remember for sure |
| 00:35.05 | macnewbold | yeah, that's one |
| 00:35.06 | mindjuju | is it any good? |
| 00:35.10 | Lone_Wanderer | It feels like I'm playing with Fisher Price toys. |
| 00:35.14 | macnewbold | I've used it for some stuff without too much trouble |
| 00:35.22 | macnewbold | openoffice has Draw inside of it, that might do what you need |
| 00:35.27 | macnewbold | I've never used real visio though |
| 00:35.34 | macnewbold | xfig is one I've used a lot |
| 00:35.41 | macnewbold | it's a bit old school though, but still works nice |
| 00:35.45 | mindjuju | visio pretty cool, visio for enterprise architects is really cool |
| 00:36.12 | Lone_Wanderer | visio is incredibly slick |
| 00:36.26 | mindjuju | i used to use graph paper and pencil to draw out my database schemas, now i use visio FEA and left the paper and pencil |
| 00:58.59 | mindjuju | macnewbold, you still around? |
| 01:00.09 | macnewbold | mindjuju: yeah, still here |
| 01:00.11 | macnewbold | sup? |
| 01:00.42 | mindjuju | if you have like 5 minutes, can I have you look at a mock up for advice? |
| 01:01.16 | macnewbold | sure |
| 01:01.22 | macnewbold | send me a url |
| 01:02.14 | mindjuju | the sandbox doesn't have a public IP so I have the site saved as an image |
| 01:02.32 | mindjuju | seems like your email address is just mac at macnewbold isn't it? |
| 01:03.13 | macnewbold | yeah that works |
| 01:03.13 | mindjuju | lone_wanderer , or anybody else around that wants to offer advice? |
| 01:03.34 | Lone_Wanderer | sorry, iaw for a sec |
| 01:03.48 | Lone_Wanderer | mine is dcrookston@gmail.com |
| 01:03.53 | Lone_Wanderer | now logged for all time |
| 01:04.44 | mindjuju | k, email sent. thx! |
| 01:06.41 | Lone_Wanderer | kk, I'll respond when I get home |
| 01:06.43 | Lone_Wanderer | see you all later |
| 01:13.42 | beandog | man this is exhausting |
| 01:13.51 | mindjuju | what are you doing beandog? |
| 01:14.02 | beandog | calling around about getting my car fixed |
| 01:14.18 | beandog | its a long story |
| 01:14.35 | mindjuju | sorry to hear that |
| 01:14.47 | mindjuju | is it a big expensive fix, or something smaller? |
| 01:14.59 | beandog | my clutch |
| 01:15.01 | beandog | :T |
| 01:15.43 | mindjuju | bummer, those can be expensive depending on what has to be replaced |
| 01:27.21 | macnewbold | g'night all |
| 01:33.27 | mindjuju | night macnewbold, and thanks for your help! |
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| 04:17.28 | thebigdog | beandog you around? |
| 04:17.34 | beandog | yes |
| 04:17.43 | beandog | im sitting here doing nothing, too tired to do much anything. |
| 04:17.53 | beandog | I have to take my car to the shop and somehow get back home. |
| 04:17.54 | beandog | whee. |
| 04:18.00 | beandog | whats up |
| 04:18.09 | thebigdog | how can i join mpeg files |
| 04:18.24 | thebigdog | is there like an mpegjoin? |
| 04:18.47 | beandog | uhm |
| 04:18.49 | beandog | I was just thinking about that today actually |
| 04:19.00 | mindjuju | I tried doing that once, but didn't work for me |
| 04:19.02 | beandog | command line, Im not sure. cat *.mpg | mencoder - -o foo.mpg will probably break |
| 04:19.11 | beandog | Id just use avidemux. |
| 04:19.23 | beandog | although I remember someone posting a fix to -dev lately that should have fixed that. |
| 04:19.38 | thebigdog | or avimerge |
| 04:19.42 | thebigdog | i wonder if that will work |
| 04:20.19 | thebigdog | well that is for avi files |
| 04:20.40 | beandog | yah |
| 04:20.47 | beandog | Im sure you could do it with some mencoder foobage |
| 04:20.52 | beandog | but, it'd probably be painful. |
| 04:21.17 | mindjuju | beandog, where do you live and where is the mechanic? |
| 04:21.46 | beandog | slc, orem. |
| 04:21.54 | beandog | Ill probably just call a cab. |
| 04:21.59 | mindjuju | yuck! |
| 04:24.30 | beandog | meh |
| 04:24.34 | beandog | I gotta get it in the shop |
| 04:24.36 | beandog | and its on its last legs. |
| 04:24.43 | beandog | I barely made it to work and back today |
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| 04:40.58 | mindjuju | ugh, i need to find out how to shrink the size of these mp3! |
| 04:41.30 | mindjuju | i had somebody make mp3s from dat tapes, but the file sizes are between 80 - 120 mb, and they have to be downloadable from the web!!! |
| 04:43.20 | mindjuju | and all it is, is voice! i could understand if it was beethoven himself directing Symphony 9, but come on!!! |
| 04:46.15 | beandog | speex. |
| 04:46.19 | beandog | speex is your friend. |
| 04:46.23 | beandog | mp3 is of the devil |
| 04:46.25 | beandog | the devil, I say! |
| 04:46.37 | mindjuju | ~wiki speex |
| 04:47.06 | beandog | another codec |
| 04:47.09 | beandog | so you probably cant use it anyway |
| 04:47.10 | mindjuju | oh, i heard of ogg |
| 04:47.15 | beandog | just reencode it to 32kbps |
| 04:47.18 | beandog | make their ears bleed. |
| 04:47.24 | beandog | thats waht I do for OTR |
| 04:47.36 | mindjuju | thebigdog always gets mad that mp3s i send him are in mp3 and not ogg |
| 04:47.37 | beandog | or rather, that's how it is when I get it in the first place, so its not like I have much choice. |
| 04:48.41 | mindjuju | coolio. i just converted this file from 64 to 32 and went from 70mb to 15mb |
| 04:48.49 | mindjuju | mmconvert rox!!! |
| 04:49.12 | beandog | now do variable frame rate |
| 04:49.13 | beandog | :D |
| 04:49.17 | beandog | mmconvert? |
| 04:49.25 | beandog | just use lame |
| 04:49.31 | mindjuju | lame? |
| 04:49.37 | mindjuju | i thought that was a codec? |
| 04:49.47 | beandog | no |
| 04:49.48 | mindjuju | some kind of mp3 codec |
| 04:49.53 | beandog | lame aint an mp3 encoder |
| 04:50.03 | beandog | which, it secretly is. |
| 04:50.06 | beandog | heh |
| 04:50.11 | beandog | theres only one mp3 codec |
| 04:50.14 | beandog | well, two if you count PRO |
| 04:50.17 | beandog | but nobody does. |
| 04:50.58 | mindjuju | oh, i've heard of MP3PRO, it has some German name associated with it |
| 04:51.02 | mindjuju | like Kaufman or something |
| 04:51.11 | mindjuju | can't remember where I saw it, but i remember seeing it that way |
| 04:51.14 | beandog | thats the company that developed it originally |
| 04:51.18 | beandog | MP3 is uber-patented |
| 04:51.25 | mindjuju | who knew? |
| 04:51.29 | beandog | Vorbis is patented too, but its a royalty-free patent. |
| 04:52.24 | mindjuju | well, this audio has to be in a client friendly format which means mp3 or wma |
| 04:52.30 | mindjuju | and i thought wma was of the devil |
| 04:52.39 | beandog | it's not. |
| 04:52.41 | beandog | Its just worthless. |
| 04:53.02 | mindjuju | using mmconvert, i can also convert to mka , wav, ogg, and ape |
| 04:53.07 | mindjuju | never heard of ape though |
| 04:53.08 | beandog | mka! \o/ |
| 04:53.12 | mindjuju | ~wiki ape |
| 04:53.25 | beandog | boy youd have a hard time finding a demuxer for matroska audio Ill tell you that right now. |
| 04:53.48 | mindjuju | not sure what a demuxer is, but it's got plugins for mka |
| 04:53.56 | mindjuju | and an extra install to be able to handle everything |
| 04:54.04 | mindjuju | it's all OSS though |
| 04:54.27 | mindjuju | we're going to be doing rm --> mp3 conversion here shortly using mmconvert. about 5g of rms to mp3 |
| 04:54.48 | beandog | demuxer, just something that uh |
| 04:54.49 | beandog | bleh. |
| 04:54.51 | beandog | plays it pretty much |
| 04:55.01 | beandog | ~google mmconvert |
| 04:56.20 | beandog | yah, realmedia codec is kinda crapalicious. |
| 04:56.24 | beandog | well, I shouldnt say that. |
| 04:56.28 | beandog | I havent used it, really. |
| 04:56.46 | mindjuju | http://mmconvert.sourceforge.net/en_us/ |
| 04:57.52 | mindjuju | oh, i guess there might be a prob with that demuxer? |
| 04:57.54 | mindjuju | http://packs.matroska.org/ |
| 04:58.04 | beandog | intresante. |
| 04:58.13 | mindjuju | very |
| 04:58.43 | beandog | I love matroska. |
| 04:58.48 | beandog | it makes all my dreams come true. |
| 04:59.04 | mindjuju | it's funny you say that, i just saw that movie last night |
| 04:59.22 | mindjuju | "if you vote for me, all your wildest dreams will come true..." |
| 04:59.28 | beandog | I watched What About Bob |
| 04:59.37 | mindjuju | that movie is classic |
| 04:59.46 | beandog | pretty funny stuff |
| 05:06.51 | beandog | ok |
| 05:06.52 | beandog | Im outta |
| 05:06.54 | beandog | g'nite mindjuju |
| 05:06.56 | mindjuju | cya |
| 05:06.57 | beandog | have fun with mp3s |
| 05:10.02 | thebigdog | beandog, you there? |
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| 16:03.37 | swb | morning! |
| 16:09.29 | macnewbold | good morning! |
| 16:09.46 | macnewbold | (I'm wishing you one, not proclaiming that it is one or that I'm having one ;) ) |
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| 16:42.12 | timinator | heh |
| 16:42.29 | swb | meh |
| 16:42.34 | timinator | meh |
| 16:42.58 | timinator | <underbreath>dang women</underbreath> |
| 16:43.12 | timinator | ;) |
| 16:43.19 | swb | not correcting, just replying (hehe) |
| 16:48.53 | timinator | np |
| 16:49.19 | timinator | anyone have strong feelings for partitioned external HDs? |
| 16:49.40 | timinator | I have a 160 GB Lacie Porsche |
| 16:50.01 | timinator | and I'm thinking of partitioning it in half |
| 16:50.42 | timinator | I bought it about 4 yrs ago, and I use it as for backups |
| 16:51.15 | timinator | since it's been a while, I'd like to clean it off and start fresh |
| 16:51.19 | thebigdog | depeneds on what you want ot do with it |
| 16:51.35 | Lone_Wanderer | ~seen dataw0lf |
| 16:51.57 | jbot | dataw0lf is currently on #utah (10h 27m 50s) #uphpu (10h 27m 50s), last said: 'I need to control my temper'. |
| 16:51.58 | Lone_Wanderer | Got somethin' to tell that boy. |
| 16:52.12 | timinator | LOL |
| 16:54.13 | timinator | thebigdog: just use it to store files |
| 16:54.28 | timinator | backups of various things mostly |
| 16:54.51 | thebigdog | then you can use the entire things as one partition or you can break it up |
| 16:55.15 | timinator | no benifit either way? |
| 16:55.15 | thebigdog | basically if it is backup then it really doesnt matter |
| 16:55.36 | timinator | ya, except that I can wipe half of it at a time |
| 16:56.12 | thebigdog | yeah...depends what you are going to do with it though...if you plan to wipe it ever so often then that is one thing...if not then that is another purpose |
| 16:56.15 | timinator | rather than burn a dozen DVDs to get the data off |
| 16:56.47 | timinator | I plan to wipe it every 6-8 mo |
| 17:18.01 | macnewbold | why wipe it? are you using a windows file system on it or something? |
| 17:23.35 | macnewbold | ~poke mindjuju's good ey |
| 17:23.41 | jbot | ACTION cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind mindjuju's good ey, pokes mindjuju's good ey repeatedly, hilarity ensues. |
| 17:23.41 | macnewbold | s/ey/eye |
| 17:24.19 | tierra | http://digg.com/linux_unix/The_Return_of_User_Mode_Linux |
| 17:24.24 | mindjuju | ~wiseguy macnewbold |
| 17:24.25 | jbot | ACTION runs up to macnewbold and pokes macnewbold in the eyes! |
| 17:32.44 | timinator | macnewbold: I guess there's no real reason in the future... right now I've got an old OS on it that I'd like to remove |
| 17:34.07 | timinator | does anyone wipe their backup HD? |
| 17:34.20 | thebigdog | i dont |
| 17:34.47 | thebigdog | i routinely do a restore to validate the backup |
| 17:35.02 | thebigdog | but i dont wipe the drive at all |
| 17:35.07 | timinator | right on |
| 17:35.26 | timinator | well then forget it :) |
| 17:36.07 | thebigdog | the big thing with backup is to make sure you are validating it...make sure it is the right data and that you can restore it |
| 17:36.17 | thebigdog | if not then it will get you some day |
| 17:49.33 | timinator | ya |
| 17:55.30 | *** join/#uphpu mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 18:05.12 | Lone_Wanderer | mindjuju: ping |
| 18:08.02 | macnewbold | Lone_Wanderer: pong |
| 18:08.20 | Lone_Wanderer | But I didn't ping you! |
| 18:08.47 | macnewbold | unsolicited replies are a pain, aren't they |
| 18:09.04 | Lone_Wanderer | :D |
| 18:09.05 | macnewbold | I'm just spoofing his IP I guess |
| 18:09.56 | Lone_Wanderer | dangit, I could have sworn I had the "print to PDF" thingie installed on my laptop. |
| 18:10.51 | mgeary | Lone_Wanderer: aren't you on a Mac? |
| 18:11.10 | Lone_Wanderer | yes |
| 18:11.11 | mgeary | ...where such things are built-in? :) |
| 18:11.12 | Lone_Wanderer | but no ;) |
| 18:11.30 | mgeary | not running OS X? |
| 18:11.43 | Lone_Wanderer | My mac is running osx yes ;) |
| 18:11.58 | mgeary | okaaaay.... |
| 18:12.04 | Lone_Wanderer | but my windows laptop, which is right next to me |
| 18:12.10 | Lone_Wanderer | doesn't have the PDF printer thingie installed |
| 18:13.36 | mindjuju | ~ping Lone_Wanderer |
| 18:13.38 | jbot | pong Lone_Wanderer |
| 18:14.08 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh, I found it. |
| 18:14.17 | Lone_Wanderer | mindjuju: So you have no choice about the gorilla? |
| 18:14.36 | mindjuju | well, here is the absolute truth |
| 18:14.44 | mindjuju | i'm trying to build a case for dumping the gorilla |
| 18:14.52 | mindjuju | but im trying to keep you guys impartial |
| 18:14.54 | Lone_Wanderer | Because honestly, when I see "Bill Good Marketing" and a picture of a gorilla, I think "Bill Good is a primate?!?" |
| 18:14.59 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh o kay |
| 18:15.05 | Lone_Wanderer | well my vote is to nuke the gorilla |
| 18:15.07 | mindjuju | k, that's what i need |
| 18:15.24 | mindjuju | but put it in the email, cause i'm printing those out and sending them up |
| 18:15.26 | swb | best case: usabilty testing, user feedback |
| 18:15.29 | Lone_Wanderer | okay will do |
| 18:15.31 | Lone_Wanderer | in a bit here |
| 18:15.47 | macnewbold | the gorilla, unless he's your logo/mascot, is the problem - I agree too |
| 18:15.48 | mindjuju | i know it sounds bad, but put your comments, just like you did in the IRC, |
| 18:15.49 | mindjuju | Because honestly, when I see "Bill Good Marketing" and a picture of a gorilla, I think "Bill Good is a primate?!?" |
| 18:15.56 | macnewbold | haha |
| 18:15.58 | macnewbold | tha'ts great |
| 18:16.00 | mindjuju | put that in the email, |
| 18:16.08 | Lone_Wanderer | will do :) |
| 18:16.14 | mgeary | point of fact, we ARE all primates, you know |
| 18:16.20 | Lone_Wanderer | Right, right. |
| 18:16.23 | swb | lol |
| 18:16.28 | mgeary | opposable thumbs, and all that |
| 18:16.50 | Lone_Wanderer | I'll be more specific and say ape or something. |
| 18:18.15 | mindjuju | not this friday, but next friday is Geek Lunch. I think we need to represent south of the point. Maybe Am Fork again |
| 18:18.23 | mindjuju | oh, and does somebody know how to get hold of beandog? |
| 18:23.33 | Lone_Wanderer | sent |
| 18:24.05 | Lone_Wanderer | There are several good reasons not to use the monkey on that page. I listed a few of them. |
| 18:25.03 | macnewbold | mindjuju: I can get in touch with beandog for you pretty easily if you want |
| 18:31.02 | mindjuju | macnewbold , yeah if you could, he mentioned yesterday he was having serious car issues, was wanting to see how i could help. I might be heading towards Orem this afternoon |
| 18:31.41 | macnewbold | he just left the office, I told him you were looking for him |
| 18:31.52 | macnewbold | he's got to replace the clutch and stuff it sounds like |
| 18:32.06 | macnewbold | just _barely_ out of warranty perhaps, not sure |
| 18:32.51 | mindjuju | well, if he needs a lift home, ask him to just let me know. I could go to orem to drop him off |
| 18:38.00 | Lone_Wanderer | ouch, that's painful |
| 18:38.08 | Lone_Wanderer | (the car trouble) |
| 18:39.45 | mindjuju | yeah, nothing sux worse than car troubles |
| 19:26.03 | mindjuju | dataw0lf , sup |
| 19:33.24 | Lone_Wanderer | someone needs to call him |
| 19:33.38 | Lone_Wanderer | "ZOMG R U STILL ALIVE?!?" |
| 19:34.10 | mindjuju | yeah, true that. anybody got contact info for him? |
| 19:34.59 | Lone_Wanderer | I might still have his number at home. |
| 19:36.03 | mindjuju | hey, for you guys that monitor firewalls, have ya'll seen an increase in SYN flood attacks, especially in the last couple of months? |
| 19:36.29 | Lone_Wanderer | ohh, Sandra's here. lunchtime. |
| 19:44.51 | macnewbold | ooooh, Sandra.... |
| 19:45.29 | macnewbold | mindjuju: beandog doesn't live in Orem, or even in West Jordan any more... his place is in SLC now |
| 19:46.33 | mindjuju | so is he cool then? |
| 19:47.32 | macnewbold | his roommate has given him rides a few times, and I've offered too, but he hasn't taken me up on it yet |
| 19:47.43 | macnewbold | I'm not sure of the status, but I hope he gets his car back this week |
| 19:48.00 | macnewbold | he was taking it to a different mechanic since the dealership wanted $2000 to fix it (saying the warranty was over) |
| 19:49.00 | mindjuju | 2k for a clutch? |
| 19:57.37 | macnewbold | his is a Cobalt |
| 19:57.42 | macnewbold | I don't know how much those run |
| 19:57.52 | macnewbold | but we all thought the dealer was overpriced |
| 19:59.45 | wps | what are a few ivy league schools (besides Harvard)? |
| 20:01.57 | wps | nevermind |
| 20:01.58 | wps | I'm good |
| 20:05.19 | macnewbold | yale is one I think |
| 20:05.28 | macnewbold | ~google ivy league schools |
| 20:05.56 | wps | jbot hasn't responded to google requests for a long time |
| 20:05.59 | wps | lazy terd |
| 20:06.38 | dataw0lf | harvard, stanford, cornell, yale, etc |
| 20:07.17 | wps | thanks |
| 20:07.28 | dataw0lf | I'm still alive |
| 20:07.39 | dataw0lf | I just went to Seattle on friday and just returned |
| 20:07.49 | dataw0lf | got my laptop stolen within an hour of being there |
| 20:08.36 | dataw0lf | and a bunch of credit cards, that, in a horrible spate of irony, I had put in my laptop case out of paranoia that I'd be pickpocketed |
| 20:09.16 | wps | (comparing BYU's barf-ugly new home page) |
| 20:09.27 | wps | (…with other universities) |
| 20:09.31 | wps | dang, dataw0lf |
| 20:09.34 | wps | that bites |
| 20:09.43 | dataw0lf | oh wait stanford isn't ivy league |
| 20:11.57 | mgeary | brown |
| 20:12.12 | dataw0lf | ya, princeton too |
| 20:12.18 | dataw0lf | penn |
| 20:12.22 | dataw0lf | dartmouth |
| 20:13.03 | dataw0lf | columbia, I think |
| 20:14.27 | mgeary | Pomona :) |
| 20:20.04 | mgeary | painful |
| 20:21.55 | Lone_Wanderer | Ohhh, DW knows the real meaning of irony. |
| 20:22.15 | Lone_Wanderer | Congratulations, you're better educated than 90% of Harvard grads. (Regarding the meaning of a single word, anyway.) |
| 20:23.47 | mgeary | now now |
| 20:25.56 | macnewbold | dataw0lf: how'd it get stolen? was it on you at the time? |
| 20:32.11 | Lone_Wanderer | People still use generic email addresses for business email? |
| 20:32.51 | Lone_Wanderer | http://www.sltrib.com/news/ci_5263947 - at the bottom, "This is my business e-mail account. I decided to sign up for MSN instead." |
| 20:35.17 | macnewbold | no kidding... |
| 20:35.37 | macnewbold | good luck getting MSN to solve anything when something goes wrong with your "business" email |
| 20:41.38 | Lone_Wanderer | I guess it's less obvious to someone who's not familiar with the internet. |
| 20:42.53 | *** join/#uphpu bradym (n=bradym@bradym.agsci.usu.edu) |
| 20:48.28 | *** join/#uphpu jsmith (n=jsmith@000-150-724.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 20:48.28 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v jsmith] by ChanServ |
| 21:13.50 | dataw0lf | macnewbold: I was in the airport bar drinking a beer waiting for a friend, watching highlights of the Indiana vs Purdue game, the laptop was at my feet, I looked away for a couple minutes, looked back down, 'twas gone |
| 21:14.13 | mindjuju | that absolutely sux |
| 21:15.10 | mindjuju | did you have confiential stuff on it? |
| 21:15.20 | dataw0lf | nah |
| 21:16.03 | dataw0lf | I'm waiting to see what IP comes up since the homepage on the browser is a private admin login site that I have access to the logs of |
| 21:16.15 | dataw0lf | then, I'm going to come down like a bomb on him |
| 21:16.37 | mindjuju | yeah, no doubt |
| 21:17.57 | dataw0lf | SYN flooding? |
| 21:18.08 | dataw0lf | That's so mid nineties |
| 21:19.24 | mgeary | hey, what strategies do you folks use to push code from development/staging to the production server? i've been using a glorified rsync script, but now that i've been using subversion, i'm considering change... |
| 21:19.27 | dataw0lf | that's what echo 1 > /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_syncookies is for |
| 21:20.35 | macnewbold | mgeary: we use rsync for ours whenever we can |
| 21:20.45 | dataw0lf | mgeary: Apache accessing Subversion, or Perforce at work |
| 21:20.53 | macnewbold | I've heard people speak well of a svn export too |
| 21:21.08 | mgeary | dataw0lf: i assume you've got Apache configured not to serve .svn/* directories? |
| 21:22.11 | dataw0lf | I use export |
| 21:22.44 | dataw0lf | what mac said |
| 21:22.46 | mgeary | ah, that's new to me, but i assume it dumps a tree w/o .svns |
| 21:22.48 | mgeary | cool |
| 21:23.09 | thebigdog | mgeary, svn export here with code testing |
| 21:24.12 | mgeary | i don't have svn on the production machine. is it possible to chain a svn export with scp, or such? |
| 21:24.21 | thebigdog | yep |
| 21:24.26 | dataw0lf | yay, media attacking Murtha after he comes up with a way to up the readiness of troops |
| 21:25.35 | dataw0lf | left wing media, my butt |
| 21:34.18 | mgeary | thebigdog: google's not being useful for samples of chaining svn and scp. anything you can point me to? Is this built-in functionality, or are we talking about step 1: export site, step 2: use scp -r to push files over? |
| 21:34.56 | thebigdog | step 1...step 2 |
| 21:35.02 | mgeary | ah, okay |
| 21:35.58 | thebigdog | i have a script to do it |
| 21:36.33 | mgeary | alright, so tell me how you guys deal with this. my "mgeary |
| 21:36.37 | mgeary | oops |
| 21:36.38 | mgeary | trying again |
| 21:37.04 | mgeary | alright, so tell me how you guys deal with this. my "mgeary" user on my dev machine doesn't exist on the production machine. Do you chown after pushing files out? or...? |
| 21:39.31 | macnewbold | mgeary: when you scp -r, or even better, rsync, your exported tree onto the live server over ssh, they'll be owned by whoever the ssh user is on the live server |
| 21:39.34 | macnewbold | which is usually fine |
| 21:40.07 | mgeary | i usually use -a, which preserves the user. i guess that's the problem |
| 21:40.10 | macnewbold | you want to make sure that user is in a group with the www user, and probably make sure everything is in that group, and group read (and execute on a dir), and maybe group write |
| 21:40.18 | mgeary | rsync -rave ssh is what i do |
| 21:40.25 | macnewbold | mgeary: if you're not the superuser on the far end, it won't be able to preserve the user |
| 21:40.33 | macnewbold | cause you won't have rights to do so |
| 21:40.43 | macnewbold | it would just leave it as whoever you logged in as |
| 21:40.53 | mgeary | true |
| 21:40.57 | thebigdog | mgeary i use svn with apache and then do a export of the code on the production server where i want it |
| 21:41.07 | thebigdog | then you solve all the problems |
| 21:41.25 | mgeary | so you've got svn on the production server |
| 21:42.15 | thebigdog | nope...i pull from the svn server via apache |
| 21:42.32 | thebigdog | sorry..i got the svn client on the prod server |
| 21:42.40 | thebigdog | not the repo |
| 21:42.41 | mgeary | yeah |
| 21:42.42 | mgeary | ok |
| 21:43.41 | thebigdog | now if you dont want svn on the server then you would copy the files up |
| 21:44.00 | macnewbold | svn client on the web server shouldn't be a hard thing |
| 21:45.31 | thebigdog | yeah...if you have issues the build a static one for that user that accesses svn and put it in is local home dir |
| 21:52.00 | mgeary | yeah, i'm all set. thanks |
| 22:36.19 | *** join/#uphpu hjhjkhj (n=hjhjkhj@41.249.6.54) |
| 22:36.26 | *** part/#uphpu hjhjkhj (n=hjhjkhj@41.249.6.54) |
| 22:40.35 | *** join/#uphpu beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 22:40.35 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v beandog] by ChanServ |
| 22:42.20 | beandog | mindjuju: yo |
| 22:44.06 | dataw0lf | http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?z=y&EAN=9780321444424&itm=1 |
| 22:44.17 | dataw0lf | if you have any interest in application security whatsoever, ye shall read this book |
| 22:46.07 | mindjuju | sup beandog, was just going to see if you had a ride or if you were stranded |
| 22:46.22 | beandog | I rented a car |
| 22:46.30 | beandog | hopefully should be fixed this week |
| 22:47.21 | mindjuju | coolio -- heard that the mechanic told ya $1500 , that's crazy |
| 22:47.32 | Lone_Wanderer | Wooo, Apocalyptica! |
| 22:48.12 | beandog | actually, he told me $2000 |
| 22:48.19 | beandog | this place I took it to said $780 |
| 22:48.41 | beandog | something around there. |
| 22:49.16 | Lone_Wanderer | I need to put mine in the body shop |
| 22:49.23 | Lone_Wanderer | but I've been putting it off 'cause I don't want to be without a car. |
| 22:49.31 | dataw0lf | http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/9748/1066/ |
| 22:49.49 | beandog | dataw0lf: looks cool, the book |
| 22:49.54 | dataw0lf | the chances of every human being perishing in 2036 is better than winning the lotto |
| 22:49.54 | mgeary | hey, i can recommend a *great* body shop |
| 22:50.12 | beandog | dataw0lf: seems like a lot of vulns come down to improper string handling |
| 22:50.30 | Lone_Wanderer | mgeary: cool, pm it to me? |
| 22:50.35 | beandog | Lone_Wanderer: dont blame you, mine was ~$35 a day I think |
| 22:50.41 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh that's not bad. |
| 22:50.42 | dataw0lf | beandog: yea, web wise. |
| 22:51.30 | beandog | dataw0lf: what about otherwise |
| 22:51.52 | dataw0lf | memory management |
| 22:51.55 | beandog | ah |
| 22:51.57 | beandog | ok |
| 23:05.56 | *** join/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@c-67-182-239-240.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:05.56 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o Utah_Dave] by ChanServ |
| 23:09.37 | Utah_Dave | dataw0lf: I got my FON router the other day. So far it seems pretty cool |
| 23:09.56 | dataw0lf | Utah_Dave: Nice! |
| 23:10.22 | mindjuju | ~crackskulls macnewbold |
| 23:10.29 | jbot | ACTION grabs macnewbold and mgeary 's heads and slams them together knocking both unconscious. Jbot then turns to mindjuju to see who else needs a wallop. |
| 23:10.35 | Utah_Dave | yeah, my D-Link has been giving me headaches and I was going to replace it, but I'll probably just use this for a while |
| 23:10.49 | mgeary | ooowwww |
| 23:11.00 | mindjuju | hey mgeary , like that! |
| 23:14.47 | macnewbold | wow, that's killer, mindjuju |
| 23:14.58 | mindjuju | hey, sup! |
| 23:15.04 | Utah_Dave | ~crackskulls mindjuju |
| 23:15.06 | jbot | ACTION grabs mindjuju and olds 's heads and slams them together knocking both unconscious. Jbot then turns to utah_dave to see who else needs a wallop. |
| 23:15.11 | macnewbold | nice Utah_Dave |
| 23:15.21 | mindjuju | heh, i love that one. i'm goign to use that random more often |
| 23:15.21 | macnewbold | ~literal crackskulls |
| 23:15.25 | Utah_Dave | ~fishslap mindjuju |
| 23:15.27 | jbot | ACTION slaps mindjuju up side the head with a wet fish. |
| 23:15.31 | mindjuju | psh |
| 23:15.43 | macnewbold | ~factinfo crackskulls |
| 23:15.43 | jbot | there's no such factoid as crackskulls, macnewbold |
| 23:15.45 | mindjuju | ~nosepick utah_dave |
| 23:15.47 | jbot | ACTION plucks utah_dave out of the nose of humanity and flicks him out the window! |
| 23:15.50 | macnewbold | ~cmdinfo crackskulls |
| 23:15.50 | jbot | command usage include 224 of Factoid Commands, 41 of Help, 31 of Dict, 15 of babelfish, 13 of Exchange, 13 of spell, 11 of Factoid Search, 8 of wtf, 7 of BZFlag, 5 of dns, 5 of Zippy, 4 of botmail, 3 of wikipedia, 3 of Uptime, 3 of nickometer, 3 of Weather, 2 of Factoid Info, 2 of Topic, 1 of piglatin, 1 of Debian Contents ... |
| 23:15.55 | macnewbold | hm |
| 23:15.59 | macnewbold | ~yow |
| 23:16.09 | mindjuju | hey macnewbold |
| 23:16.13 | mindjuju | geek lunch next friday |
| 23:16.24 | macnewbold | serious? |
| 23:16.26 | mindjuju | i think we should represent south of the point |
| 23:16.30 | mindjuju | i think so, isn't ? |
| 23:16.31 | macnewbold | ah, a week from friday |
| 23:16.36 | macnewbold | march 3 is it? |
| 23:16.47 | macnewbold | sorry, friday march 2 |
| 23:16.58 | mindjuju | yeah, that sounds right. first friday where meet is 3rd friday |
| 23:17.09 | mindjuju | though last month we had it a week late |
| 23:17.20 | macnewbold | right |
| 23:17.27 | macnewbold | due to lack of planning ahead :) |
| 23:17.29 | macnewbold | hm |
| 23:17.32 | Utah_Dave | dang, I'm going to be out of town for geek lunch again |
| 23:17.39 | macnewbold | I don't know many of the places down there, but I'm open to that |
| 23:17.56 | macnewbold | let's see what people nominate, regardless of location, the we might favor a southern venue ;) |
| 23:17.57 | mindjuju | methinks utah_dave is afraid to be seen in public with us |
| 23:18.07 | mindjuju | k, i'll send something out |
| 23:19.07 | macnewbold | sweet |
| 23:20.10 | mindjuju | hmmm... 'sploits in Snort |
| 23:31.14 | mindjuju | email sent |
| 23:31.52 | thebigdog | email received |
| 23:34.58 | mgeary | is that the uphpu list? |
| 23:35.08 | mgeary | or is there a special geek lunch list? |
| 23:35.49 | thebigdog | mindjuju thinks the uphpu mailing list is the special geek lunch list |
| 23:35.52 | mindjuju | sent to gen uphpu list |
| 23:35.58 | mgeary | heh |
| 23:36.07 | mindjuju | har har har |
| 23:36.24 | mgeary | i'm interested in the lunch, but don't have bandwidth for yet another mailing list. are the details elsewhere? |
| 23:36.45 | mindjuju | here's what i said |
| 23:36.50 | mindjuju | March Geek Lunch will be March 2nd, but we still don't have a place selected |
| 23:36.50 | mindjuju | and here is your chance to nominate! |
| 23:36.58 | mindjuju | Technically, this Geek Lunch is the one where we eat south of "the point", |
| 23:36.58 | mindjuju | so for you guys in Utah County here's your chance! Send back an email with |
| 23:36.58 | mindjuju | your nomination and let me know of a place you'd recommend. |
| 23:36.58 | thebigdog | :) |
| 23:37.08 | mindjuju | send it in by Thursday |
| 23:37.16 | mgeary | Kneaders is a great place for lunch. Best sandwiches around by a mile |
| 23:37.23 | mgeary | or 20 miles, as it were |
| 23:37.30 | thebigdog | im holding out for north utah |
| 23:38.01 | mindjuju | hey, April, we go north to bountiful again so ya'lls turn is coming up soon |
| 23:38.41 | thebigdog | so far away |
| 23:39.13 | mindjuju | well, we don't go down to provo either |
| 23:39.24 | mindjuju | just a middle point somewhere that's reasonable for everybody |
| 23:40.24 | mindjuju | course though, if you or timinator don't show again, i think there might be punches |
| 23:40.38 | mgeary | Kneaders is in the very northern part of Orem |
| 23:40.55 | thebigdog | its all timinator's fault...he has a stinky finger too |
| 23:41.04 | timinator | LOL |
| 23:41.26 | timinator | hang on, hang on... I've got to read back to see what ya'll are talking about |
| 23:42.52 | thebigdog | timinator -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stinky_Toe_/_House_Broken |
| 23:43.20 | thebigdog | mindjuju that is what happened. |
| 23:43.28 | thebigdog | timinator's real name is norb |
| 23:43.38 | thebigdog | and mine is dag |
| 23:44.06 | thebigdog | we just had a mishap with the rocket shipt |
| 23:44.28 | timinator | LOL |
| 23:44.42 | mindjuju | that's too funny |
| 23:45.11 | thebigdog | could you guys imagine me drunk...now that would be funny |
| 23:45.23 | timinator | LOL |
| 23:45.28 | timinator | I'd pay money |
| 23:45.31 | timinator | to see that |
| 23:45.45 | thebigdog | last time i got drunk it was bad really bad |
| 23:57.47 | Lone_Wanderer | you drunk now bigdog? |