| 00:04.21 | thebigdog | not many people now about the advanced fuzzy logic it supports |
| 00:07.16 | thebigdog | i like the search by number feature |
| 00:07.50 | mindjuju | ~lart thebigdog |
| 00:08.04 | thebigdog | oh...that is nice |
| 00:09.01 | mindjuju | beandog told me to do it |
| 00:09.54 | thebigdog | sure man |
| 00:09.57 | thebigdog | i see how you are |
| 00:10.02 | beandog | it's true |
| 00:10.11 | beandog | he washes my t-shirts, too |
| 00:10.21 | *** mode/#UPHPU [-o mindjuju] by thebigdog |
| 00:10.29 | mindjuju | dag! |
| 00:10.30 | thebigdog | lol |
| 00:10.31 | mindjuju | demoted |
| 00:10.37 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o mindjuju] by thebigdog |
| 00:14.19 | timinator | LOl |
| 00:14.30 | timinator | s/LOl/LOL/ |
| 00:16.12 | mindjuju | http://novelconcepts.co.uk/FlashElementTD/ |
| 00:18.00 | timinator | know anyone who wants to make a Flash game? |
| 00:18.21 | mindjuju | i'd wager cole konws somebody |
| 00:18.35 | timinator | cole? |
| 00:18.50 | mindjuju | cole joplin on the mailing list |
| 00:19.02 | mindjuju | really into flash |
| 00:19.06 | timinator | I'll send an email to the list, thanks |
| 00:19.17 | macnewbold | timinator: if you're meaning to outsource to someone, we know a guy that has done some for us |
| 00:19.34 | macnewbold | he did the one at http://www.kfcbowlscontest.com/ for us |
| 00:19.51 | macnewbold | his prices are pretty reasonable |
| 00:20.47 | timinator | hmmm |
| 00:20.53 | timinator | hook me up dude |
| 00:21.28 | macnewbold | see msg |
| 00:39.05 | timinator | I'm out... thanks again Mac... later guys |
| 00:41.28 | beandog | hmm |
| 00:41.35 | beandog | I just barely figured out how to change my XFCE icon set. |
| 00:41.36 | beandog | how sad is that. |
| 01:13.05 | *** part/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 01:15.13 | *** part/#uphpu bradym (n=bradym@bradym.agsci.usu.edu) |
| 01:25.31 | *** join/#uphpu burnin (n=burnin@42dbe40e.dsl.aros.net) |
| 02:36.15 | beandog | too quiet in here |
| 02:36.17 | beandog | ~melvin mindjuju |
| 02:36.32 | jbot | ACTION pulls mindjuju underwear up to the ceiling...and smiles |
| 02:36.32 | mindjuju | pshah |
| 02:36.34 | mindjuju | jbot knows better |
| 02:36.36 | beandog | hee hee |
| 02:36.38 | beandog | :D |
| 02:36.42 | mindjuju | ~toejam jbot |
| 02:36.43 | jbot | ACTION wipes all the crud and jbot from out between his toes. Yuck! |
| 02:36.47 | macnewbold | ~lart mindjuju |
| 02:36.49 | mindjuju | ~wiseguy beandog |
| 02:36.50 | jbot | ACTION runs up to beandog and pokes beandog in the eyes! |
| 02:36.55 | beandog | heh |
| 02:36.56 | macnewbold | ~trogdor mindjuju |
| 02:36.57 | jbot | ACTION burninates mindjuju |
| 02:36.57 | mindjuju | ~poo macnewbold |
| 02:36.59 | jbot | ACTION summons a troop of flying monkeys to fling their poo at macnewbold |
| 02:36.59 | beandog | nice. |
| 02:37.06 | mindjuju | ~dhit macnewbold |
| 02:37.09 | jbot | ACTION manages to land Gentoo Install Time on macnewbold, freezing him for days |
| 02:37.15 | beandog | doh |
| 02:37.22 | macnewbold | argh |
| 02:44.44 | burnin | if I want to send a download file from a PHP function will I need to pop up a new window to send the download header? |
| 02:45.03 | beandog | yah |
| 02:45.05 | beandog | well |
| 02:45.06 | beandog | no |
| 02:45.10 | beandog | you can do it in that same page |
| 02:45.18 | beandog | I think. |
| 02:45.33 | beandog | or you can have download.php |
| 02:45.37 | burnin | but wont the page come up as a blank page because it ends up as a download? |
| 02:45.40 | beandog | and that just starts dumping the file as an attachment. |
| 02:46.45 | beandog | you wouldnt have to go to a new page that way. |
| 02:47.01 | beandog | well, technically you are going to a new page |
| 02:47.10 | beandog | but since youre not displaying one, it doesnt display anything |
| 02:47.11 | beandog | or something. |
| 02:47.19 | beandog | anyway, it works, however it works. |
| 02:47.23 | macnewbold | most browsers will just leave the window at the page you were on |
| 02:47.29 | macnewbold | when someone clicks on a link that doesn't send back html |
| 02:47.31 | beandog | right |
| 02:47.34 | beandog | thats what I was trying to say. |
| 02:47.47 | macnewbold | i.e. you have a page that displays a link to download.php or whatever, |
| 02:47.57 | macnewbold | and when they click the link, the download dialog pops up, |
| 02:48.01 | burnin | ok, the problem is how I'm using the codeigniter framework then. |
| 02:48.04 | macnewbold | but the browser stays on the page that had the link |
| 02:48.15 | burnin | so I should just make a download.php script outside of the framework |
| 02:48.21 | burnin | and all it does is send the attachment. |
| 02:48.22 | macnewbold | oh, if you're using codeigniter, you're screwed - file downloads don't work in CI |
| 02:48.24 | beandog | yah |
| 02:48.28 | burnin | lol |
| 02:48.31 | burnin | nice |
| 02:48.34 | macnewbold | just kidding, burnin :-D |
| 02:48.59 | burnin | so a download.php script will be the cleanest method? |
| 02:49.23 | burnin | and my CI page where the download selection occurs will just stick around. |
| 02:51.37 | mindjuju | jbot: tunafart $1 is <action> eats a week-old tuna sandwich with relish and walks over to $1, leg raised, to let 'em rip. |
| 02:51.41 | jbot | okay, mindjuju |
| 02:51.48 | mindjuju | ~tunafart macnewbold |
| 02:51.49 | jbot | ACTION eats a week-old tuna sandwich with relish and walks over to macnewbold, leg raised, to let 'em rip. |
| 02:52.03 | macnewbold | oh, that's nasty |
| 02:52.08 | macnewbold | who put that in there |
| 02:52.14 | macnewbold | ~destroy mindjuju |
| 02:52.15 | jbot | no |
| 02:52.21 | mindjuju | heh |
| 02:52.27 | beandog | ~gentoo |
| 02:52.28 | jbot | [gentoo] foo |
| 02:52.30 | macnewbold | ~burninate mindjuju |
| 02:52.31 | jbot | ACTION burninates mindjuju and thrashes him soundly with Trogdor's meat arm. |
| 02:52.32 | beandog | poo. |
| 02:52.43 | mindjuju | ~tunafart beandog |
| 02:52.44 | jbot | ACTION eats a week-old tuna sandwich with relish and walks over to beandog, leg raised, to let 'em rip. |
| 02:53.13 | mindjuju | i should set a randomizer on the tuna part so it could be different tuna cuisine |
| 02:53.29 | mindjuju | so could be tuna and onion casserole |
| 02:55.06 | mindjuju | i'm actually starting a political action committee in support of HB 148 |
| 02:55.30 | burnin | hb148? |
| 02:55.31 | beandog | whats that |
| 02:55.32 | mindjuju | i love law, addicted to it actually |
| 02:55.45 | mindjuju | HB 148 is Education Vouchers |
| 02:55.55 | beandog | ? |
| 02:55.58 | mindjuju | it says that no monies will be taken away from state education fund |
| 02:56.25 | mindjuju | some taxes diverted to create scholarships for students attending private school |
| 02:56.42 | beandog | really? |
| 02:56.43 | beandog | holy cow. |
| 02:56.45 | mindjuju | yup |
| 02:57.05 | macnewbold | so is HB148 the bill that provides for them, or restricts them so that it can't be taken from public school funds? |
| 02:57.44 | mindjuju | well, it provides for the creation of the scholarships and funds them |
| 02:58.02 | mindjuju | so, for parents who for what ever reason decided that public school wasn't for their child |
| 02:58.12 | burnin | oh, wait, hb148 creates a scholarship fund with public taxes for students from private schools? |
| 02:58.14 | mindjuju | they now how access to state funds to help offset the costs of that decision |
| 02:58.58 | mindjuju | yup, strong feelings on both sides from what i've seen |
| 02:59.08 | beandog | I'm lost, now. |
| 02:59.19 | mindjuju | really depends on how you feel about public school as to whether your pro or con on the bill |
| 02:59.24 | mindjuju | k, so let's start from the top |
| 02:59.33 | burnin | if its okay for people to get vouchers to take public taxes to privately school their kids, can I get vouchers for all the taxes I pay for the kids I don't have? |
| 02:59.54 | mindjuju | nope, that money is lost to you |
| 03:00.01 | mindjuju | social contract |
| 03:00.05 | mindjuju | k, so from the top |
| 03:00.21 | mindjuju | beandog, let's say that you've got a couple of little beandogs running around |
| 03:00.33 | burnin | well, the social contract should be for citizens with and without kids. |
| 03:01.07 | mindjuju | and you look at the school they are slated to go to and think, hmmm... i don't like the level of education they are providing |
| 03:01.22 | mindjuju | so, you decide to haul your kids to a private school |
| 03:01.48 | mindjuju | well, to this point, you've paid for all the costs of the private school, plus the costs of the public school, even if your kids arent going |
| 03:02.19 | mindjuju | so, what this bill says is, we WON'T take money from the public school, so they still get the money slotted for the little beandogs |
| 03:02.38 | mindjuju | but we will take a portion of the taxes and help parents who have decided to send their children elsewhere |
| 03:02.49 | mindjuju | that's what HB 148 says |
| 03:02.58 | mindjuju | of course, standard boilerplate applies |
| 03:03.13 | mindjuju | must be legit school, child must be 5, can't make too much money |
| 03:03.17 | mindjuju | etc, etc, etc |
| 03:03.39 | mindjuju | does that make sense? |
| 03:04.33 | burnin | so where exactly do the tax dollars come from to pay for public education? depending on the number of little beandogs out there does beandog actually pay for the public education for all those little beandogs? |
| 03:04.58 | burnin | or is he actaully taking taxes someone else paid so the little beandogs could get a public education? |
| 03:05.00 | burnin | :) |
| 03:05.02 | mindjuju | beandog currently is paying for pub education |
| 03:05.08 | burnin | is he? |
| 03:05.10 | mindjuju | that money still goes to pu education |
| 03:05.10 | burnin | how? |
| 03:05.15 | burnin | what money? |
| 03:05.16 | mindjuju | state taxes |
| 03:05.18 | mindjuju | property tax |
| 03:05.33 | mindjuju | especially property tax |
| 03:05.39 | burnin | ok, so the more little beandogs he has the lower his state tax. |
| 03:05.48 | mindjuju | nope, doesn't run that way |
| 03:05.58 | mindjuju | the more his property is valued, the more tax he pays |
| 03:06.00 | burnin | the more beandogs he has the more benefit he gets for the property tax dollars. |
| 03:06.11 | mindjuju | exactly! |
| 03:06.38 | macnewbold | whoa, backlog... |
| 03:06.46 | mindjuju | so if the beandog ain't spawning he's not getting the full value of his taxation |
| 03:07.22 | burnin | so, does beandog get less for his vouchers if he has more children or if his property is worth less than someone else who wants a voucher? |
| 03:07.42 | mindjuju | nope, the voucher isn't tied to property tax or num of children |
| 03:07.50 | mindjuju | it's actually tied to the amount he makes |
| 03:08.01 | mindjuju | the more he makes, the less he gets in scholarships |
| 03:08.14 | macnewbold | so the public schools get money for my kids that are or are not enrolled, no matter what, |
| 03:08.21 | mindjuju | yup |
| 03:08.25 | macnewbold | and if I want the voucher and do private school, where does that money come from? |
| 03:08.29 | beandog | intresting stuff. |
| 03:09.09 | mindjuju | uh... hang on quick sec |
| 03:09.10 | burnin | sorry, but if beandog wants to send his kids to private school he needs to get a second job and stay out of my wallet. :) |
| 03:09.13 | burnin | sorry beandog :) |
| 03:09.21 | mindjuju | here's the bill by the way if you want to look with me |
| 03:09.22 | mindjuju | http://le.utah.gov/~2007/bills/hbillamd/hb0148.htm |
| 03:10.18 | mindjuju | well, burnin, he's not actually "in your wallet" per se, this is money already collected |
| 03:10.27 | mindjuju | it's deciding what to do with it, is where we are at right now |
| 03:10.56 | burnin | huh? so there is a wad of cash with no current use? sounds like we need a refund. |
| 03:11.05 | mindjuju | ugh, where is it? i know I saw it a little while ago. it was 10 mil to start |
| 03:11.22 | mindjuju | that's one option for the $$$ |
| 03:11.33 | beandog | great, mindjuju lost 10 million. |
| 03:11.53 | mindjuju | and, i think there is a political action committee to get bigger refunds |
| 03:11.56 | burnin | and what happens when the $10 mil is gone? then beandog has to get a second job to pay for private schools? |
| 03:12.07 | mindjuju | seems like i heard about it a little while ago, if i see the info, i'll pass it your way, burnin |
| 03:12.15 | mindjuju | yup |
| 03:12.24 | mindjuju | what the scholarship doesn't cover the parents do |
| 03:13.01 | burnin | actually I'm not that concerned about getting a refund, but I do want them to spend the money properly. |
| 03:13.18 | mindjuju | well, sure -- everybody has that concern. |
| 03:13.20 | burnin | but I'm not so sure assisting private schooling is the right thing to do with public tax dollars. |
| 03:15.09 | mindjuju | i can totally understand where you coming from |
| 03:15.56 | mindjuju | I know the Utah PTA is really miffed about the bill as they are afraid that it will negatively impact public ed |
| 03:16.26 | mindjuju | true, went to public school in Houston |
| 03:16.44 | macnewbold | http://digg.com/software/Gradefix_Helps_Students_Plan_Study_Time |
| 03:16.58 | macnewbold | someone else dugg us again! wth? |
| 03:17.21 | mindjuju | way cool |
| 03:18.29 | burnin | you know, I can agree with "parents are presumed best informed to make decisions for their children, including the educational setting that will best serve their children's interests and educational needs;" |
| 03:18.57 | mindjuju | yup, i'm a big fan of that part |
| 03:19.07 | burnin | but "the establishment of this choice in education program is justified on the basis of funding the educational needs of school-age children as determined by their parents;" is bs. |
| 03:19.16 | burnin | that breaks the social contract |
| 03:19.38 | mindjuju | how does it break social contract? |
| 03:19.52 | mindjuju | many parents of autistic children aren't able to run their children through public schools |
| 03:20.02 | burnin | if you have a beef with the public system which is paid for by the social contract then you can work to change the public system or get a second job to pay for private school. |
| 03:20.05 | mindjuju | those costs are OOP right now |
| 03:20.43 | burnin | so the vouchers are for autistic children? |
| 03:20.56 | mindjuju | except that there are many case studies of this exact procedure helping public ed get better |
| 03:21.05 | mindjuju | schools in Michigan are prime example |
| 03:21.17 | mindjuju | hb 148 not limited to autistic children |
| 03:21.34 | mindjuju | one of the beneficiaries of 148 |
| 03:22.18 | burnin | well, if we need something for autistic children then we should do something specifically for autistic children and not use it as an excuse to pay for private schooling for fully capable children with our public tax dollars. |
| 03:22.48 | mindjuju | that was just one example, didn't mean for you to construe it as the primary cause |
| 03:23.09 | burnin | so how was the Michigan public school system helped by vouchers to pay for private school with public tax dollars? |
| 03:24.17 | mindjuju | well, let's research that, hang on quick sec |
| 03:24.29 | mindjuju | don't want to just pull things from out of my head, want things in print you can read |
| 03:30.08 | burnin | since the public schools would not be losing funding but would have fewer students they would ahve more resources per student, theoretically. |
| 03:31.13 | mindjuju | that is one of the main points that are pointed out, but was looking for somebody in Michigan who said they saw that effect happen |
| 03:31.20 | burnin | giving disadvantaged families the opportunity to send their children to a private school could have some benefit, but I'm not sure the scholarship amounts would be enough to pay the tuition. |
| 03:33.41 | macnewbold | if public schools stink, and they're not really improving, then making it economically feasible to give parents choice in education is a good thing I think |
| 03:34.05 | burnin | if fewer students per dollars is one of the benefits then perhaps the problem isn't public schools but lack of proper funding. :) |
| 03:34.15 | macnewbold | it's basically a free market principle at work - competition and choice between options lets people get what is best for them |
| 03:34.34 | macnewbold | and the things that are good for them get rewarded |
| 03:35.17 | burnin | macnewbold, yes, but there are other ways to look at it too. most children will have to attend public schools and vouchers look more like an attempt to take public tax dollars from the system to benefit a few. |
| 03:35.31 | burnin | hb148 doesn't plan to take dollars from the public system. |
| 03:35.45 | burnin | but it does plan to take public tax dollars from elsewhere. |
| 03:36.12 | macnewbold | I personally feel like the public school system could use more funding, but the bigger problem is the way the public school system is being run |
| 03:36.30 | burnin | freemarket, competition, choice are all great, but if you want to drive a big expensive mercedes you should pay for it, not me. |
| 03:36.32 | burnin | :) |
| 03:36.32 | macnewbold | they're not rewarding the good teachers enough, and they're rewarding the bad ones too much |
| 03:36.52 | burnin | yeah, I hear all the time that our school system sucks and people want to take their kids out. |
| 03:36.58 | macnewbold | the way I see it, the voucher wouldn't be for any more money than the public school system would get if they were the ones teaching the student |
| 03:37.04 | burnin | I'd like to know why it sucks and what we can do to fix it. |
| 03:37.12 | macnewbold | if there's $X going to my local public school to teach my kid |
| 03:37.20 | burnin | having fewer children with a good education is going to kill our economy in the future. |
| 03:37.24 | burnin | I will never get to retire. :) |
| 03:37.29 | macnewbold | I'd like to be able to take that $X away from the public school, put my kid in a different school, and give them my $X |
| 03:38.29 | burnin | macnewbold, yeah, that may sound like a nice idea, but what if those of us who don't have childrend, do we get to pull out all our funding of public schools if we think they suck? |
| 03:39.03 | burnin | but I do have many neices and nephews. |
| 03:39.12 | burnin | and I like my neighbors. :) |
| 03:41.18 | burnin | I don't see where hb148 is limited to $10mil, sounds like they expect it to be funded by the general fund every year until the general fund is dried out. |
| 03:43.03 | burnin | I thought I heard on the radio that the voucher issue had passed. So is it still up for debate? |
| 03:43.33 | burnin | oh, passed the house |
| 03:43.37 | burnin | now its in the senate |
| 03:49.30 | mindjuju | sorry, my wife called and had to talk to her for a bit |
| 03:49.46 | mindjuju | burnin, i'm going to have to look that stuff up for you on Michigan when I have a moment |
| 03:49.54 | mindjuju | got to get this letter out real quick though |
| 04:04.24 | macnewbold | I think if public schools start seeing their students (and the corresponding funding) disappearing, they'll be forced to make the changes necessary to get things back on track |
| 04:04.58 | macnewbold | they're too resistive to change, and keep too many bad teachers in the system - and because of seniority, they're often paying the bad teachers more than the good ones, and far more than they deserve |
| 04:05.56 | mindjuju | yup, sister in law has been preaching that to the rest of the family for the last year. she's got a Masters in Mathematics and is horrified at the level of understanding by her fellow teachers |
| 04:06.23 | macnewbold | they need to start running the public school system a bit more like a business (where results bring rewards) instead of so much like a school (where rewards and results apparently aren't linked) |
| 04:06.59 | mindjuju | yeah, unfortunately unions aren't very keen on being competitive |
| 04:07.08 | mindjuju | and that's one of the major opponents to HB 148 |
| 04:10.16 | mindjuju | burnin, not sure if your still here, but I was wrong. It wasn't Michigan, it was Milwaukee |
| 04:10.23 | mindjuju | and here is what the dude said |
| 04:10.31 | mindjuju | Ken Johnson of the Milwaukee School Board, which is one of the first areas in the nation to implement a voucher system, spoke in support of the bill. Johnson said that Milwaukee schools have shown growth, budgets have increased and market share has increased since the voucher system was put into place. |
| 04:10.50 | mindjuju | i'll try to find you the original quote though so you can see it in context |
| 04:11.30 | macnewbold | nice |
| 04:11.46 | macnewbold | so there's a teacher's union that's fighting it? UEA or something? |
| 04:12.03 | macnewbold | they're the same people that are so resistive to change that they're sinking the whole system |
| 04:12.15 | macnewbold | in business, people who aren't cutting it get terminated |
| 04:12.16 | mindjuju | yup, UEA has a thing on their website asking all teachers and union members to contact their reps to tell them not to vote for this |
| 04:12.26 | mindjuju | yup, exactly |
| 04:12.41 | macnewbold | in business, people whose job it is to deal with clients, but can't deal well with clients, get fired |
| 04:13.03 | macnewbold | in schools, teachers who aren't cutting it get overlooked, then get tenure, and can't be fired (easily) |
| 04:13.34 | mindjuju | yeah, it's really not a very effective system |
| 04:13.53 | mindjuju | affecting change on the smallest degree has been met with considerable resistance |
| 04:14.25 | macnewbold | in schools, teachers who can't work well with students get promoted to administration, to keep them away from students |
| 04:15.03 | macnewbold | in business, people who do well get a raise, and people who don't stay the same or go down in pay |
| 04:15.41 | mindjuju | wish it were that way for education system |
| 04:15.43 | macnewbold | in schools, teachers who have been there longer get paid more, and teachers who do well make the same as teachers who do poorly that have the same seniority/education |
| 04:15.57 | mindjuju | see, that's what i don't understand |
| 04:16.27 | macnewbold | it's not necessarily the unionization that's killing it, but it's stagnating everything, pushing for the status quo, and protecting the people who aren't cutting it |
| 04:19.58 | mindjuju | it's prolly just me, but i've never seen a union that's made it's members more productive as far as work production is concerned. Maybe i'm looking in the wrong spots, but when i looked at unions in various areas of buisness, the more unionized, the less productive the stats. though i'm always open to reviewing information to the contrary, if there be any |
| 04:24.37 | burnin | results from the Milwaukee voucher system seem to be mixed and the study by the university of Wisconsin found little to no significant difference in performance between the public schools and the students using vouchers. |
| 04:25.08 | burnin | some of the private schools making money off the milwaukee voucher system sound pretty scary. |
| 04:25.40 | burnin | a basement room in a church with no planned curriculum, no books on the shelves, and all study and testing done over the internet. |
| 04:26.27 | burnin | looks like the voucher system is putting such a financial load on the government they people are pushing back too. |
| 04:27.09 | burnin | http://www.allianceforqualityed.org/Milwaukee%20report.pdf |
| 04:27.11 | mindjuju | k, i'm back |
| 04:27.30 | burnin | no so sure that those people are unbiased, but I don't see a reason why the university would be biased. |
| 04:27.36 | burnin | s/no/not/ |
| 04:27.49 | burnin | thanks jbot |
| 04:27.51 | burnin | :) |
| 04:30.11 | burnin | of course one question that comes up, if a public school is failing can it just be closed down as the failing voucher schools are in the Milwaukee system? |
| 04:30.40 | mindjuju | wouldn't it be better to close the school and route the funds to more productive schools |
| 04:30.42 | burnin | or is a failing public school allowed to continue failing the students? |
| 04:30.45 | mindjuju | well, funds / children |
| 04:31.11 | burnin | well, routing the students is probably more important than the funds. |
| 04:31.12 | burnin | :) |
| 04:31.26 | mindjuju | except that funds are usually per capita |
| 04:31.40 | mindjuju | each student is worth a certain amount to the school in state and federal funds |
| 04:31.42 | burnin | reading about the Milwaukee decision it almost sounds like it was driven by religion. |
| 04:31.46 | mindjuju | so where the student goes, the money follows |
| 04:32.00 | burnin | so are Utah schools really that bad? |
| 04:32.00 | mindjuju | yeah, that's not a good idea |
| 04:32.22 | burnin | I don't have kids myself. |
| 04:32.38 | mindjuju | on this alliance for education, it *appears* to be the teacher's union page for Greenville, SC |
| 04:32.41 | burnin | but I've done some tutoring for neices and nephews in grade school and they seem to be doing very good. |
| 04:33.09 | burnin | yes, the alliance is not unbiased, but the question is the study done by the Univeristy of Wisconson. |
| 04:33.20 | burnin | the University study found little difference. |
| 04:33.26 | mindjuju | i'd have to see the context of the study |
| 04:33.32 | mindjuju | i've seen the way quotes can be abused |
| 04:33.37 | burnin | and while the alliance is biased, the fraudulent schools in the voucher system are a fact. |
| 04:34.03 | mindjuju | stats can also be skewed, that's why i was saying on that one quote i posted, i'd find you the context so you could get full impact |
| 04:34.41 | burnin | so why are we looking into vouchers here in Utah, is our public education system broken? |
| 04:34.59 | mindjuju | enough parents think so that it has passed the House |
| 04:35.10 | mindjuju | and the Senate is thought to be very likely to pass it |
| 04:35.24 | mindjuju | and the Gov gave it the ole' nod back in 2004 as a campaign promise |
| 04:36.12 | mindjuju | on the other hand, and in the interest of being fair, our AP scores are 3rd in the nation |
| 04:36.30 | mindjuju | behind NY and NH(i think) |
| 04:36.38 | burnin | ah, good, I was just looking up rankings and scores for utah schools. |
| 04:36.55 | burnin | because it seems to me our public school system is doing an excellent job. |
| 04:37.16 | burnin | and I worry that people are making their decision based on something other than the performance of the schools. |
| 04:37.38 | mindjuju | i think there are a lot of reasons parents aren't interested in public schools |
| 04:38.16 | mindjuju | at least in Houston, about as much effort went into cafeteria food as went into the curriculum |
| 04:39.14 | mindjuju | my reasons though have to do with the education methods employed |
| 04:39.19 | burnin | grade 4 utah math performance has consistently exceeded national averages and from 92 to 05 has consistently improved. |
| 04:39.25 | burnin | http://www.utahschools.org/usaag.php?page=national.htm |
| 04:40.19 | burnin | grade 4 reading is just above average, and seems to be slipping. |
| 04:41.03 | burnin | grade 8 math about average |
| 04:41.19 | mindjuju | oh that's funny |
| 04:41.25 | mindjuju | at the bottom is this section |
| 04:41.30 | burnin | grade 8 reading a little above average |
| 04:41.33 | mindjuju | FACTORS OTHER THAN SPENDING LEADING TO SUCCESS |
| 04:41.52 | mindjuju | sorry bout the caps, that is the way it was posted on the page and didn't notice till it posted |
| 04:42.13 | mindjuju | brb |
| 04:48.52 | mindjuju | well, i'm back |
| 04:49.04 | burnin | http://www.greatschools.net |
| 04:49.09 | burnin | interesting ratings |
| 04:49.31 | mindjuju | i've actually seen that page. when I first looked at schools for my son to go to, i looked here |
| 04:49.45 | burnin | utah schools are all over the place from the lowest rank of 1 to 10 which means test scores are in the top 10% of the nation. |
| 04:50.54 | mindjuju | though, if that other website you were quoting from had any truth to it, it sounds like it doesn't have much to do with the education system, but more from parent involvement |
| 04:55.46 | mindjuju | well, you definitely have very valid points. work hard for your money, want to make sure it gets used right. it's frustrating to see your money go to help others. not easy to convince on those points, but i do think this bill is a good idea |
| 04:56.53 | burnin | if it makes a difference great, but I'm not convinced. |
| 04:57.06 | burnin | I actually would like to see the surplus go to education. |
| 04:57.12 | burnin | I don't want a refund. |
| 04:57.40 | burnin | several west valley schools are in bad shape performance wiise. |
| 04:57.56 | burnin | many other utah schools are way up their in national rankings. |
| 04:58.10 | mindjuju | really? when i looked, i was looking for the Lehi / Alpine area because thats where we live |
| 04:58.36 | burnin | how do the schools rank there? |
| 04:59.15 | burnin | I'm in riverton, I have a few nieces and nephews who live in west valley, I'm thinking they need to put down my address as home and go to school out here. :) |
| 04:59.19 | mindjuju | alpine according to that greatschools website is suppose to be top 2 or 3 in the state |
| 04:59.36 | mindjuju | i didn't know you were in riverton |
| 04:59.45 | mindjuju | i work between draper and riverton |
| 05:00.37 | burnin | I work in west jordan and live just inside riverton, outside south jordan. 8 minutes from work. :) |
| 05:02.08 | mindjuju | it's a nice area. i'm considering looking for a home in riverton |
| 05:02.20 | mindjuju | only problem is that a lot of the houses are backbreakingly priced |
| 05:02.49 | burnin | yes, I moved here back in 98. the population has exploded along with the cost of housing. |
| 05:04.25 | burnin | lol, a high school named "Success School" in west valley and their greatschools rating is 1. |
| 05:04.40 | mindjuju | what's a 1, the lowest? |
| 05:04.44 | burnin | yep |
| 05:04.50 | mindjuju | it's been a little while since i was on taht site |
| 05:04.53 | burnin | bottom 10% of national scores. |
| 05:04.59 | mindjuju | yuck |
| 05:07.33 | mindjuju | the area over there that i like is of of 123 south near the article circle between redwood road and the freeway. seems like there are some really nice subdivision over there with reasonably priced homes |
| 05:10.49 | burnin | oh, that success school in west valley is a charted school |
| 05:11.04 | mindjuju | that's scary |
| 05:11.17 | mindjuju | and a great abuse of the system |
| 05:11.23 | burnin | could just be that its for students with special needs. |
| 05:11.42 | mindjuju | yeah, but they weigh the tests different, i think, when they do that |
| 05:13.02 | burnin | when I was looking in riverton I nearly purchased a house a few blocks north of the arctic cirlce on a hill side over looking the jordan river flats. |
| 05:13.21 | burnin | nice neighborhood, nice houses. |
| 05:13.43 | mindjuju | yeah, i think i know where your talking about |
| 05:13.48 | burnin | I ended up buying a house further west that wasn't on the side of a hill and had more land. |
| 05:13.54 | mindjuju | lots of decent homes in a subdivision |
| 05:14.11 | burnin | yeah, there are several nice subs all over riverton |
| 05:14.23 | burnin | but wow, some of them are asking outrageous prices. |
| 05:14.34 | mindjuju | yeah, that's what i noticed |
| 05:14.45 | mindjuju | i hate it when people play the real estate market |
| 05:14.49 | burnin | but if you look around you can find some decent priced properties. |
| 05:15.07 | mindjuju | even Ben Stein said that the one show, flip this house, had skewed the market and people were going to get hurt playing the market |
| 05:15.45 | mindjuju | i guess a lot of people figured they could make crazy money by tying up a house for a couple of months while it appreciated or by trying to fix it and sell it for some crazy price |
| 05:15.47 | burnin | when banks have to offer interest only loans so people can afford to buy houses you know there are going to be some serious problems down the road. |
| 05:15.59 | mindjuju | yup |
| 05:19.20 | mindjuju | ugh, that's just painful thinking about |
| 05:30.03 | burnin | damn forgot, early day morrow, nite... |
| 05:30.13 | macnewbold | I don't think private schools or charter schools are reuqired to use the standaradized tests |
| 05:30.23 | macnewbold | so that might explain the 1 ranking |
| 05:30.44 | mindjuju | possibly. course, from what my sis in law says, most teachers teach test prep |
| 05:30.52 | mindjuju | so all the students know is how to pass the test |
| 05:31.02 | macnewbold | which is ridiculous imho |
| 05:31.09 | mindjuju | yup |
| 05:31.10 | mindjuju | scary |
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| 16:04.14 | thebigdog | ~seen beandog |
| 16:04.36 | jbot | beandog is currently on #utah (59m 17s) #uphpu (59m 17s), last said: 'great, mindjuju lost 10 million.'. |
| 16:04.37 | dataw0lf | ~seen dataw0lf |
| 16:04.40 | jbot | dataw0lf is currently on #utah (1d 16h 50m 16s) #uphpu (1d 16h 50m 16s). Has said a total of 53 messages. Is idling for 4s, last said: '~seen dataw0lf'. |
| 16:04.40 | beandog | not here. |
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| 17:10.29 | dataw0lf | anyone seen bradym recently? I think he got the job :) |
| 17:11.05 | macnewbold | which job? |
| 17:11.08 | macnewbold | with you? |
| 17:11.10 | macnewbold | oh noes |
| 17:11.20 | dataw0lf | pshaw, oh yesh you mean |
| 17:12.53 | gibba[w] | dataw0lf: sup mang |
| 17:12.55 | dataw0lf | if any of you guys have wives / girlfriends who like bare escentuals makeup, I got a killer dealer as web dev for them. |
| 17:12.58 | dataw0lf | gibba[w]: sup dude |
| 17:16.56 | drip | dataw0lf: do they have anything that will make the wife's face disappear? |
| 17:17.00 | drip | =P |
| 17:17.05 | timinator | DW: I'll take some info |
| 17:17.07 | drip | ok.. that was a bitter remark. |
| 17:17.17 | timinator | ya, very bitter |
| 17:18.41 | dataw0lf | timinator: http://bareescentuals.com/id/, I can get that for 30 bucks, let me know. |
| 17:18.57 | drip | normally I probably would have taken you up on that too. |
| 17:19.25 | dataw0lf | drip: I'm still looking for lip gloss that glues their mouth shut |
| 17:19.26 | dataw0lf | >_< |
| 17:19.48 | drip | lol |
| 17:20.46 | timinator | note to self: Don't buy any products from DW |
| 17:21.03 | drip | depends on who you're buying for.. |
| 17:21.08 | drip | =) |
| 17:21.29 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 17:21.48 | drip | I have a couple people I'd love to buy the lip gloss for. |
| 17:24.29 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 17:24.39 | dataw0lf | you should start boxing, I just signed up |
| 17:25.18 | drip | that would be therapeutic too. |
| 17:25.36 | drip | but there is a lot of joy that comes when I break a racquetball. |
| 17:27.20 | drip | plus that way I don't have to take the punishment too |
| 17:27.25 | drip | =) |
| 17:28.48 | timinator | I disagree... racquetball is a form of punishment as well as therapy |
| 17:29.29 | drip | only if I step in front of my opponent. |
| 17:30.12 | drip | but yes, I've had my fair share of welts. |
| 17:33.06 | timinator | last time I played, it was with my main client... my big dog... the financier of my non-corporate existence.... and I hit him square in the nuts with the racquetball at point blank range |
| 17:33.14 | dataw0lf | YOUR big dog? |
| 17:33.20 | dataw0lf | THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE BIG DOG! |
| 17:33.26 | timinator | that's true |
| 17:33.31 | timinator | there is only one big dog |
| 17:33.44 | timinator | hey now DW |
| 17:33.51 | drip | timinator: lmao.. that's his fault if he was putting those in the way. |
| 17:33.59 | dataw0lf | he has to chop this other bigdog's head off, it's just how he is |
| 17:34.24 | timinator | there must be another way |
| 17:34.32 | dataw0lf | THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE! |
| 17:36.40 | beandog | isnt there some kind of function like wordwrap / substr that will only print a certain # of words |
| 17:36.51 | optikal | I need a few recommendations for a web host.. shared hosting is fine, basically need ~400g of space and the same or more transfer per month. |
| 17:37.15 | beandog | 400g? What are you mirroring? |
| 17:37.18 | _psychic_ | wow |
| 17:37.42 | optikal | Its actually for a site that will hold a ton of dj mixes |
| 17:37.42 | dataw0lf | don't go with rackspace |
| 17:37.48 | optikal | Which average ~150mb ea |
| 17:37.54 | beandog | dataw0lf: no good? |
| 17:38.08 | dataw0lf | terrible |
| 17:38.15 | beandog | how come |
| 17:38.24 | dataw0lf | their support tries to BS you at every corner |
| 17:39.04 | beandog | I hate trying to find a good webhost, its always a pita. |
| 17:40.02 | dataw0lf | I really like RimuHosting |
| 17:40.05 | dataw0lf | but that's just me |
| 17:42.35 | beandog | dataw0lf: do you use their vps? |
| 17:43.00 | beandog | timinator: which you using? |
| 17:43.10 | timinator | XMission |
| 17:43.13 | timinator | u? |
| 17:43.15 | *** join/#uphpu bradym (n=bradym@bradym.agsci.usu.edu) |
| 17:43.16 | beandog | nice |
| 17:43.19 | beandog | serverpronto.com |
| 17:43.57 | dataw0lf | beandog: Yea, for stderr.ws |
| 17:44.01 | dataw0lf | and soon to be damnstraight.org |
| 17:44.25 | timinator | dude, that's cheap |
| 17:44.28 | beandog | do you ever have memory issues? |
| 17:44.40 | dataw0lf | None. |
| 17:44.43 | beandog | timinator: yah, not bad ey? |
| 17:44.46 | beandog | dataw0lf: debian? |
| 17:44.46 | dataw0lf | I've never had an issue with them. |
| 17:44.52 | dataw0lf | Ubuntu, actually. |
| 17:45.03 | beandog | huh |
| 17:45.03 | beandog | funky. |
| 17:45.19 | dataw0lf | bradym: how's it going? |
| 17:46.13 | bradym | good, just playing the waiting game now |
| 17:46.55 | dataw0lf | word |
| 17:47.08 | dataw0lf | you told them you wanted to work in Reno? |
| 17:47.29 | bradym | I was told before I went out there that it wasn't an option for the team I'd be on. |
| 17:48.25 | dataw0lf | those bastards |
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| 18:08.24 | mindjuju | it's a good thing you me, i didn't feel it |
| 18:11.33 | beandog | lol |
| 18:12.01 | beandog | looks like xfce4.4 got unmasked in portage. |
| 18:13.41 | thebigdog | sweet |
| 18:13.56 | thebigdog | ^5 dataw0lf |
| 18:14.04 | thebigdog | dataw0lf+2 |
| 18:14.15 | dataw0lf | ;-) |
| 18:14.32 | dataw0lf | ^5 |
| 18:15.22 | thebigdog | dataw0lf actually turned me on to xfce about 1-2 yrs ago |
| 18:15.41 | dataw0lf | was it that long ago? |
| 18:15.42 | dataw0lf | jeepers. |
| 18:16.21 | thebigdog | i think so..it has been a while since i have used it |
| 18:19.36 | thebigdog | ~slap mindjuju wake up |
| 18:19.37 | jbot | ACTION slaps mindjuju wake up, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 18:31.42 | thebigdog | ~melvin mindjuju |
| 18:31.44 | jbot | ACTION pulls mindjuju underwear up to the ceiling...and smiles |
| 18:31.56 | mindjuju | ~tunafart thebigdog |
| 18:31.58 | jbot | ACTION eats a week-old tuna sandwich with relish and walks over to thebigdog, leg raised, to let 'em rip. |
| 18:32.15 | thebigdog | nice one |
| 18:32.24 | mindjuju | yeah, it's new |
| 18:32.25 | thebigdog | man my mouth was open and everything |
| 18:33.42 | dataw0lf | I never knew tuna caused bad farts |
| 18:34.04 | mindjuju | only thing worse than a tuna fart is a scrambled egg fart |
| 18:34.47 | dataw0lf | oh, now I knew about those |
| 18:34.56 | dataw0lf | I eat a lot of eggs.. with tabasco.. |
| 18:35.20 | mindjuju | love tabasco on my chicken nuggets, with a little salt |
| 18:37.06 | dataw0lf | I love tabasco period |
| 18:37.09 | dataw0lf | if you snort it, it keeps you awake. |
| 18:37.21 | _psychic_ | ouch |
| 18:37.40 | _psychic_ | it also keeps you awake if you light your socks on fire |
| 18:38.11 | mindjuju | i know this is prolly blasphemy, but I think the Tapatio is better than tabasco |
| 18:38.16 | mindjuju | you should try it |
| 18:38.25 | _psychic_ | tapatio++ |
| 18:38.27 | mindjuju | http://www.tapatiohotsauce.com/index.aspx |
| 18:38.28 | _psychic_ | el pato++ |
| 18:39.04 | mindjuju | i actually have the second to largest container at work and at home |
| 18:40.41 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: yes, but in Iraq and military training, you can't lose your socks. |
| 18:40.45 | dataw0lf | the MREs come with tabasco |
| 18:40.54 | dataw0lf | gotta stay awake and alert somehow |
| 18:41.38 | _psychic_ | I think I'd take tabasco in the nose over getting surprised in Iraq, though. |
| 18:44.32 | dataw0lf | you start to get used to it after a while |
| 18:44.40 | dataw0lf | my platoon sergeant used to snort one bottle up each nose |
| 18:44.46 | dataw0lf | (little bottles in MREs) |
| 18:45.10 | macnewbold | how many noses did he have? |
| 18:45.12 | thebigdog | +100 tabasco chipo style |
| 18:45.17 | dataw0lf | each nostril |
| 18:45.49 | mindjuju | it's a good thing it's nostrils and not orifices cause that'd REALLY be bad |
| 18:45.57 | _psychic_ | lol macnewbold |
| 18:46.13 | _psychic_ | mindjuju: think tear ducts |
| 18:46.42 | mindjuju | i think that would be blinding |
| 18:47.33 | dataw0lf | yea, eyes are pretty bad. |
| 18:47.39 | thebigdog | i would think wasabi toothpaste would suck too |
| 18:48.07 | _psychic_ | use less |
| 18:48.11 | _psychic_ | its good if you don't use too much |
| 18:48.15 | _psychic_ | (imho) |
| 18:48.20 | mindjuju | it feels like a punch in the nose, for no good reason |
| 18:48.28 | mindjuju | i love hot food, but it's got to have a purpose |
| 18:48.46 | mindjuju | making food with a billion jalapenos just to make it hot is pointless, must have flavor |
| 18:48.54 | dataw0lf | jalapenos are tasty |
| 18:49.00 | mindjuju | fo sho! |
| 18:49.08 | thebigdog | cleans out everything is the purpose |
| 18:49.25 | macnewbold | I don't really enjoy food that makes me sweat |
| 18:49.50 | dataw0lf | I don't like really hot foot |
| 18:49.54 | dataw0lf | food* |
| 18:50.23 | _psychic_ | wuss. |
| 18:50.23 | dataw0lf | but I sure do love a little spice |
| 18:50.30 | dataw0lf | this is why I primarily date mexican girls, subconsciously. |
| 18:51.04 | _psychic_ | indian, thai, and russian food can get too hot for me |
| 18:51.06 | _psychic_ | dang. |
| 18:51.10 | dataw0lf | I can't stand indian food. |
| 18:51.41 | dataw0lf | it's either way too bland, or way too hot |
| 18:51.41 | mindjuju | i've actually never had russian food before |
| 18:51.41 | _psychic_ | Its more interesting to me than delicious |
| 18:51.42 | dataw0lf | thus the 'big' in his name |
| 18:51.44 | thebigdog | yep |
| 18:51.44 | dataw0lf | :) |
| 18:51.52 | dataw0lf | I look like I eat ethiopian |
| 18:51.53 | thebigdog | food movies and sin |
| 18:52.00 | dataw0lf | pieces of cardboard with a side of dirt |
| 18:52.17 | _psychic_ | too late, mister. |
| 18:52.48 | _psychic_ | blam1 |
| 18:52.55 | thebigdog | menudo is good when done right |
| 18:52.58 | macnewbold | ~lart menudo |
| 18:53.00 | dataw0lf | menudo?! |
| 18:53.06 | dataw0lf | this is what I think of menudo |
| 18:53.11 | macnewbold | ~lart mondongo |
| 18:53.14 | dataw0lf | http://www.stderr.ws/dump/yearightbuddy.jpg |
| 18:53.16 | macnewbold | ~lart morcilla |
| 18:53.17 | thebigdog | isnt that a mexican pop group |
| 18:53.59 | macnewbold | whoa, there! you should put warnings on a link like that... |
| 18:54.11 | *** join/#uphpu burnin (n=burnin@42dbe40e.dsl.aros.net) |
| 18:54.17 | thebigdog | lol |
| 18:54.38 | dataw0lf | I think I look beaaaaaaaaautiful |
| 18:55.35 | dataw0lf | I want to eat pecorino |
| 18:56.26 | thebigdog | dataw0lf taht will give you the farts |
| 18:56.39 | dataw0lf | all italian cheeses give you the farts |
| 18:56.46 | thebigdog | yes they do |
| 18:56.56 | dataw0lf | my grandma can let em rip |
| 18:57.05 | thebigdog | cool thing with argentina is that you get a lot of european foods mixed in there |
| 18:57.11 | dataw0lf | then she looks around suspiciously as if someone else in the family did it. |
| 18:57.11 | beandog | menudo??? |
| 18:57.30 | thebigdog | i love the noquis though...what say you mac? |
| 18:57.49 | thebigdog | the name alone is the pasta of love (making?) |
| 18:57.53 | macnewbold | noquis are awesome |
| 18:57.58 | macnewbold | so is the milanesa |
| 18:58.11 | thebigdog | and fresh bread with some dulce de leche |
| 18:58.16 | macnewbold | if you eat mondongo, you might as well eat your tires |
| 18:58.20 | beandog | milanesa++ |
| 18:58.42 | dataw0lf | do you have to memorize scriptures if you're LDS? |
| 18:59.06 | thebigdog | you dont have to do anything if you dont want too |
| 18:59.08 | macnewbold | strictly speaking, not really |
| 18:59.08 | beandog | dataw0lf: just movie ratings |
| 18:59.20 | beandog | dataw0lf: was that a picture of you? |
| 18:59.27 | dataw0lf | yes |
| 18:59.33 | dataw0lf | with a look of surprise and disgust on my face. |
| 18:59.35 | macnewbold | most people know a few though - the articles of faith are popular ones to memorize, since there's only 13 and they're pretty short mostly |
| 18:59.40 | thebigdog | macnewbold likes the quilmes too with his nuqios and asado |
| 18:59.56 | dataw0lf | thanks guys |
| 18:59.56 | macnewbold | never really did the quilmes thing |
| 18:59.59 | macnewbold | just got the shirt |
| 18:59.59 | beandog | the real question is ... river o boca? |
| 19:00.03 | macnewbold | river |
| 19:00.04 | thebigdog | boca |
| 19:00.06 | beandog | ++ |
| 19:00.08 | beandog | nooo |
| 19:00.13 | macnewbold | too |
| 19:00.14 | thebigdog | ~bitchslap macnewbold |
| 19:00.21 | jbot | ACTION beats the sh*t out of macnewbold |
| 19:00.27 | macnewbold | I've got a river jersy in my closet |
| 19:00.37 | thebigdog | river sucks |
| 19:00.39 | beandog | I bought an original one when i was down tehre, it was great. |
| 19:00.42 | thebigdog | boca 4 life |
| 19:00.59 | thebigdog | i got an official 1996 world cup jersy |
| 19:01.13 | macnewbold | the other big rivalry where I was is the two teams in Santa Fe - Colon and some other one that I can't remember |
| 19:01.28 | macnewbold | I almost got an argentina jersey, but ended up not |
| 19:01.43 | macnewbold | I still have a pair of gamuza (suede) boots though |
| 19:02.02 | beandog | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4b/Menudo_-_Video_Explosion_DVD_cover.jpg |
| 19:02.04 | beandog | that'll work |
| 19:02.21 | beandog | http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/dd/QuieroSer.jpg |
| 19:02.24 | beandog | that's even worse. |
| 19:02.37 | dataw0lf | beandog: YOU TRYING TO SAY I'M UGLY?!?! |
| 19:03.07 | beandog | Menudo's real boom came during the 1980s, after the Sallaberry brothers and Oscar and Carlos Melendez were replaced with Rene Farrait, Johnny Lozada, Xavier Serbia and Miguel Cancel. This revolving-door policy made Menudo different from other pop acts: a member would be replaced when he reached his 16th birthday, his voice changed or got too tall. |
| 19:03.18 | beandog | that explains the disocgraphy from 1977 to 2006 |
| 19:03.48 | dataw0lf | they'd like you to think that |
| 19:03.54 | dataw0lf | but they're really unaging aliens |
| 19:04.19 | dataw0lf | remember Occam's Razor! |
| 19:04.36 | macnewbold | dude, and ricky martin in that first link |
| 19:04.43 | macnewbold | he started in menudo apparently! |
| 19:04.44 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 19:04.53 | mindjuju | yeah, he did |
| 19:04.57 | dataw0lf | see? everyone knows ricky martin is an alien. |
| 19:05.03 | beandog | lol |
| 19:05.03 | macnewbold | he's right up front in a yellow shirt, no? |
| 19:05.09 | macnewbold | now look what you did... |
| 19:05.12 | macnewbold | ~lart menudo |
| 19:05.18 | beandog | ~menudo |
| 19:05.24 | beandog | we need a menudo action |
| 19:06.25 | mindjuju | ~menudo |
| 19:06.38 | mindjuju | ~wiki menudo |
| 19:07.16 | beandog | http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Menudo-T-Shirt-Transfer_W0QQitemZ280078566470QQihZ018QQcategoryZ28022QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem |
| 19:07.23 | mindjuju | yuck, di.fm is really sucking today! |
| 19:07.28 | beandog | ~wiki menudo band |
| 19:07.31 | mindjuju | anybody streaming some decent techno today? |
| 19:07.37 | beandog | ~wiki menudo (band) |
| 19:10.35 | macnewbold | ~wiki mendu (food) |
| 19:10.41 | macnewbold | ~wiki menudo (food) |
| 19:11.21 | mindjuju | ~wiki Menudo (soup) |
| 19:11.58 | mindjuju | yup, had it every sunday morn |
| 19:36.18 | *** topic/#UPHPU by mindjuju -> Utah PHP Users Group | uhphu.org | Geek Lunch @ Goodwood in Draper @ 1p be there! |
| 19:36.27 | mindjuju | oops, didn't say what day |
| 19:37.05 | *** topic/#UPHPU by mindjuju -> Utah PHP Users Group | uhphu.org | Geek Lunch @ Goodwood in Draper @ 1p on 2/9 be there! |
| 19:38.06 | mindjuju | who here is going? |
| 19:38.40 | mindjuju | bummer |
| 19:47.50 | mindjuju | scale? |
| 19:53.42 | *** join/#uphpu herlo (n=clints@166.70.63.209) |
| 19:53.42 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v herlo] by ChanServ |
| 19:54.27 | herlo | does anyone quickly know the command to see what the results would be of a update/delete in mysql without actually performing it? |
| 19:55.17 | beandog | isnt there some kind of DESCRIBE or EVALUATE command? |
| 19:55.25 | beandog | I dunno if that will do what you want though. |
| 19:55.32 | beandog | mindjuju: socal linux expo |
| 19:55.37 | beandog | ~google scale 5x |
| 19:55.44 | beandog | bah. |
| 19:55.59 | beandog | http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale5x/ |
| 19:56.23 | burnin | in pgsql I think its EXPLAIN |
| 19:56.29 | burnin | or something like that |
| 19:56.33 | burnin | dunno about mysql. |
| 19:56.37 | beandog | EXPLAIN |
| 19:56.39 | beandog | I was close. |
| 19:59.29 | beandog | wow theres gonna be some cool booths |
| 19:59.29 | beandog | http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale5x/exhibitions.php |
| 20:01.44 | beandog | and the Gentoo booth is directly facing the Debian and Red Hat ones |
| 20:01.46 | beandog | perfect. |
| 20:01.48 | herlo | cool |
| 20:04.35 | herlo | beandog: that doesn't seem to be it |
| 20:13.46 | dataw0lf | herlo: EXPLAIN ANALYZE |
| 20:13.49 | dataw0lf | anyone know how well MySQL 5 will run on CentOS 3? |
| 20:24.17 | thebigdog | beandog inkscape will be there...great!!! |
| 20:34.59 | thebigdog | ~smack beandog |
| 20:35.07 | jbot | ACTION smacks beandog upside the head. |
| 20:35.19 | thebigdog | ~tunafart beandog |
| 20:35.21 | jbot | ACTION eats a week-old tuna sandwich with relish and walks over to beandog, leg raised, to let 'em rip. |
| 20:35.33 | beandog | ~smack jbot |
| 20:35.35 | jbot | ACTION smacks jbot upside the head. |
| 20:35.41 | beandog | that shouldnt have worked |
| 20:35.47 | beandog | tunafart, now thats mean. |
| 20:36.03 | thebigdog | inkscape is svg program |
| 20:36.19 | thebigdog | never |
| 20:36.21 | thebigdog | never |
| 20:36.26 | thebigdog | never |
| 20:36.34 | beandog | ~gnome thebigdog |
| 20:36.44 | thebigdog | ~midget beandog |
| 20:36.54 | beandog | this bot doesnt have enough commands. |
| 20:36.56 | beandog | ~help |
| 20:38.04 | dragonleech | ~help |
| 20:38.05 | beandog | how do you assign commands to jbot? |
| 20:38.33 | beandog | thebigdog: I thought it was a vector drawing program |
| 20:38.37 | beandog | which would make sense, svg ... |
| 20:38.59 | thebigdog | i cant remeber mindjuju knows how to do it |
| 20:39.18 | mindjuju | huh |
| 20:39.32 | thebigdog | welcome dragonleech |
| 20:39.59 | dragonleech | hi bigdog |
| 20:39.59 | mindjuju | oh, i see |
| 20:40.03 | mindjuju | jbot commands |
| 20:40.51 | beandog | yah |
| 20:40.52 | mindjuju | yeah, if you give me your email addy, i'll send them |
| 20:40.54 | beandog | instruct us |
| 20:41.04 | mindjuju | or, i guess i can throw them into here |
| 20:41.33 | mindjuju | well, first, you have 2 different types of commands |
| 20:41.37 | mindjuju | first is a factoid |
| 20:41.39 | mindjuju | like this |
| 20:41.45 | mindjuju | ~thebigdog |
| 20:41.47 | jbot | from memory, thebigdog is a guroob |
| 20:42.05 | mindjuju | jbot, thebigdog is also the sql guru |
| 20:42.07 | jbot | mindjuju: okay |
| 20:42.13 | mindjuju | ~thebigdog |
| 20:42.14 | jbot | hmm... thebigdog is a guroob, or the sql guru |
| 20:42.26 | mindjuju | so that thar is a factoid |
| 20:42.29 | mindjuju | ~beandog |
| 20:42.31 | jbot | well, beandog is cool |
| 20:42.46 | fungus | jbot, forget beandog |
| 20:42.46 | jbot | i forgot beandog, fungus |
| 20:42.52 | beandog | beandog ... is ... cool |
| 20:42.57 | fungus | :) |
| 20:43.00 | mindjuju | now the next is a jbot command where you tell jbot to do something, like attack |
| 20:43.04 | mindjuju | ~tunafart fungus |
| 20:43.05 | jbot | ACTION eats a week-old tuna sandwich with relish and walks over to fungus, leg raised, to let 'em rip. |
| 20:43.19 | beandog | I dont think Im ever gonna get tired of that one |
| 20:43.19 | mindjuju | that command looks like this |
| 20:43.54 | mindjuju | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:44.14 | jbot | ACTION eats a week-old tuna sandwich with relish and walks over to $1 is <action> eats a week-old tuna sandwich with relish and walks over to fungus, leg raised, to let 'em rip., leg raised, to let 'em rip. |
| 20:44.20 | beandog | lemme try this |
| 20:44.42 | mindjuju | now, there is a way you can make an uber jbot command |
| 20:44.45 | mindjuju | like this |
| 20:44.50 | mindjuju | ~timattack fungus |
| 20:44.54 | jbot | ACTION get's Ash's chainsaw and starts to go postal on fungus! |
| 20:45.00 | mindjuju | ~timattack thebigdog |
| 20:45.02 | jbot | ACTION uses a 2 handed log saw and starts to chase thebigdog! |
| 20:45.10 | mindjuju | so it has a little randomizer in it |
| 20:45.12 | mindjuju | that looks like this |
| 20:45.45 | mindjuju | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:45.49 | jbot | mindjuju: okay |
| 20:45.51 | beandog | jbot: menudo $1 is <action> recruits $1 into an never-ending puerto rican boy band to work for tween fanfare and burritos |
| 20:45.54 | jbot | beandog: okay |
| 20:45.59 | beandog | ~menudo mindjuju |
| 20:46.01 | jbot | ACTION recruits mindjuju into an never-ending puerto rican boy band to work for tween fanfare and burritos |
| 20:46.07 | beandog | :) |
| 20:46.13 | mindjuju | heh |
| 20:46.27 | mindjuju | ~commandnamehere beandog |
| 20:46.28 | jbot | ACTION shoots beandog in the eye with a frozen turkey cannon! |
| 20:46.39 | _psychic_ | jbot: psyhit $1 is <action> wiggles his fingers your direction. You no longer believe (you are wearing pants|Windows blows|thebigdog is big|in your own existence). |
| 20:46.41 | jbot | _psychic_: okay |
| 20:46.41 | mindjuju | heh, didn't mean for it to do that, but, oh well |
| 20:46.56 | _psychic_ | ~psyhit mindjuju |
| 20:46.57 | jbot | ACTION wiggles his fingers your direction. You no longer believe Windows blows. |
| 20:47.03 | mindjuju | yipes! |
| 20:47.06 | _psychic_ | forget psyhit |
| 20:47.07 | mindjuju | i've created a monster! |
| 20:47.12 | _psychic_ | jbot: forget psyhit |
| 20:47.12 | jbot | _psychic_: i didn't have anything called 'psyhit' to forget |
| 20:47.16 | beandog | more than one, mindjuju |
| 20:47.28 | beandog | jbot: beandog is cool |
| 20:47.33 | jbot | okay, beandog |
| 20:47.33 | _psychic_ | jbot: psyhit $1 is <action> wiggles his fingers $1's direction. You no longer believe (you are wearing pants|Windows blows|thebigdog is big|in your own existence). |
| 20:47.35 | jbot | ACTION wiggles his fingers your direction. You no longer believe thebigdog is big. |
| 20:47.36 | beandog | ~beandog |
| 20:47.38 | jbot | rumour has it, beandog is cool |
| 20:47.38 | fungus | jbot, mindjuju is also a (j|i)bot super (user|teacher) |
| 20:47.39 | jbot | fungus: okay |
| 20:47.59 | mindjuju | ~mindjuju |
| 20:48.00 | jbot | methinks mindjuju is sleeping with his left eye open, or insane, or prone to messing with other people's factoids, or a windows system administrator *GASP*, or a jbot super user |
| 20:48.18 | mindjuju | thx fungus! |
| 20:49.14 | mindjuju | fun huh |
| 20:49.59 | mindjuju | if you like jbot, go tell timriker in #botpark he wrote and manges jbot |
| 20:51.43 | _psychic_ | jbot: forget psyhit |
| 20:51.43 | jbot | _psychic_: i didn't have anything called 'psyhit' to forget |
| 20:51.49 | _psychic_ | ~psyhit |
| 20:52.47 | _psychic_ | jbot: psyhit $1 is <action> wiggles his fingers in $1's direction. You no longer believe (you are wearing pants|Windows blows|thebigdog is big|in your own existence). |
| 20:52.49 | jbot | ACTION wiggles his fingers your direction. You no longer believe in your own existence. |
| 20:52.59 | beandog | heh |
| 20:53.25 | mindjuju | ~psyhit _psychic_ |
| 20:53.27 | jbot | ACTION wiggles his fingers your direction. You no longer believe Windows blows. |
| 20:53.36 | _psychic_ | get rid of it - it's wrong |
| 20:53.43 | _psychic_ | he can't remember it to forget it |
| 20:53.49 | _psychic_ | jbot: forget ~psyhit |
| 20:53.50 | jbot | i didn't have anything called '~psyhit' to forget, _psychic_ |
| 20:55.15 | mindjuju | hmm... |
| 20:55.41 | mindjuju | ~psyhit |
| 20:57.04 | mindjuju | jbot, forget psyhit |
| 20:57.04 | jbot | i didn't have anything called 'psyhit' to forget, mindjuju |
| 20:58.19 | jsmith | Wow... O'Reilly is celebrating Web Design and Development Month |
| 20:58.23 | jsmith | http://www.oreilly.com/go/webdev |
| 20:58.31 | _psychic_ | jbot: phit $1 is <action> wiggles his fingers $1's direction. You now have a strong conviction that (Windows is the OS for you|thebigdog isn't so big|Java is concise|you need to write your next website in x86 ASM|wps really *is* mister sexy pants|dataw0lf wants to hug you|you need to get a job as an accountant). |
| 20:58.38 | jbot | okay, _psychic_ |
| 20:58.43 | _psychic_ | whew |
| 20:58.56 | _psychic_ | ~phit mindjuju |
| 20:58.58 | jbot | ACTION wiggles his fingers mindjuju's direction. You now have a strong conviction that you need to get a job as an accountant. |
| 20:59.07 | mindjuju | heh |
| 20:59.20 | herlo | dataw0lf: either I am too thick to get it or I am just missing something.. What does EXPLAIN ANALYZE do and where am I to type it? |
| 20:59.21 | _psychic_ | You're almost forgiven, you useless bot. |
| 20:59.34 | _psychic_ | herlo: in the mysql client prompt? |
| 20:59.43 | herlo | tried that, get an error |
| 20:59.46 | jsmith | herlo: It tells you how the query planner is going about running your query |
| 21:00.20 | herlo | so is it supposed to be just EXPLAIN ANALYZE <my query>; ? |
| 21:00.48 | jsmith | Yes. |
| 21:00.59 | herlo | k, trying |
| 21:01.02 | herlo | tx jsmith |
| 21:01.05 | jsmith | EXPLAIN ANALYZE SELECT clue FROM cluebox; |
| 21:03.00 | herlo | this does not work - EXPLAIN ANALYZE delete from Pounds where date > '2007-01-20 00:00:00'; |
| 21:03.00 | _psychic_ | That reminds me of a thinkgeek shirt :) |
| 21:03.24 | mindjuju | i love that thinkgeek shirt on sql |
| 21:03.27 | jsmith | Usually, EXPLAINs work on SELECTS, not DELETEs |
| 21:03.32 | mindjuju | i'm thinking of buying one |
| 21:03.37 | herlo | well, that's what I want it for... |
| 21:04.17 | _psychic_ | why? |
| 21:04.19 | herlo | but I can dig around on mysql now for the right thing. I just needed a start |
| 21:04.33 | _psychic_ | to time it? |
| 21:04.36 | herlo | _psychic_: because I don't want to delete some data |
| 21:04.45 | herlo | and I want to make sure I have the right command first... |
| 21:05.02 | _psychic_ | SELECT it first then |
| 21:05.14 | thebigdog | or copy to a temp table |
| 21:05.14 | herlo | huh? |
| 21:05.46 | herlo | SELECT what? |
| 21:05.49 | thebigdog | herlo _psychic_ is saying that you need to run select first then see if the data is correct |
| 21:05.52 | jsmith | herlo: Looks like the version of MySQL I'm running doesn't have EXPLAIN ANALYZE... I guess I'm too used to PostgreSQL |
| 21:06.06 | herlo | thebigdog: that might actually work... |
| 21:06.06 | thebigdog | select * from Pounds where date > '2007-01-20 00:00:00'; |
| 21:06.11 | herlo | yeah... |
| 21:06.19 | herlo | didn't think of it that way |
| 21:06.25 | herlo | tx _psychic_ thebigdog jsmith |
| 21:06.50 | thebigdog | ok...venting time...i hate nulls in databases |
| 21:07.02 | _psychic_ | y? |
| 21:07.44 | thebigdog | cause the select statement bite me arse |
| 21:08.10 | thebigdog | select * from table where field = null; |
| 21:08.13 | thebigdog | did not work |
| 21:08.15 | thebigdog | lol |
| 21:08.24 | thebigdog | add that too the wtf for today |
| 21:08.26 | jsmith | thebigdog: WHERE field IS NULL; |
| 21:08.35 | thebigdog | yeah |
| 21:08.43 | jsmith | I know, it sucks, doesn't it. |
| 21:08.49 | thebigdog | took me a minute...i guess too much menudo on the brain |
| 21:11.06 | bradym | anyone know why this: rtrim('enthicity_y','_y'); would return: 'ethnicit' instead of 'ethnicity'? |
| 21:11.22 | bradym | it's working fine on a handful of other values.. |
| 21:12.16 | bradym | oh wait.. it strips each character, not the whole set.. |
| 21:12.28 | bradym | nvm |
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| 21:50.21 | thebigdog | anyone here use pgpool? |
| 21:53.00 | dataw0lf | I'll pgpool you... |
| 21:53.34 | thebigdog | ty |
| 21:54.43 | dataw0lf | nah, what's pgpool? |
| 21:55.38 | dataw0lf | ah |
| 21:55.49 | dataw0lf | wonder what the overhead is for using such a proxy solution |
| 21:58.16 | jsmith | dataw0lf: Not much overhead... seems to work quite well for us |
| 22:00.04 | thebigdog | jsmith, do you have to compile your own? |
| 22:00.21 | thebigdog | does centos have some rpms for it? |
| 22:00.52 | jsmith | I don't remember... |
| 22:03.30 | *** join/#uphpu _psychic_ (n=_psychic@71.32.228.156) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 22:03.30 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v _psychic_] by irc.freenode.net |
| 22:04.10 | _psychic_ | whoa |
| 22:20.04 | beandog | heh |
| 22:20.36 | beandog | ~menudo thebigdog |
| 22:20.41 | jbot | ACTION recruits thebigdog into an never-ending puerto rican boy band to work for tween fanfare and burritos |
| 22:20.59 | thebigdog | ~melvin beandog |
| 22:21.00 | jbot | ACTION pulls beandog underwear up to the ceiling...and smiles |
| 22:21.06 | thebigdog | ~whaleslap beandog |
| 22:21.07 | jbot | ACTION beats beandog upside and over the head with a freakishly huge killer whale named Hugh |
| 22:21.14 | thebigdog | ~trick beandog |
| 22:21.15 | jbot | ACTION points beandog the other way and puts a klingon cloak on. |
| 22:21.20 | thebigdog | ~lart beandog |
| 22:23.27 | thebigdog | ~whip beandog |
| 22:23.29 | jbot | ACTION takes beandog outside to be thoroughly whipped by thebigdog |
| 22:23.52 | thebigdog | ~change beandog |
| 22:24.02 | thebigdog | lol |
| 22:36.59 | beandog | nooooooo |
| 22:37.17 | beandog | (PHP 5 >= 5.2.0) |
| 22:37.18 | beandog | bleh. |
| 22:39.00 | beandog | and the substitute function works in 5.0.0 |
| 22:39.02 | beandog | meh. |
| 22:39.38 | gibba[w] | ok ... got a question for those better with css and markup than I ... |
| 22:40.01 | synic | there are people better than css and markup than you? |
| 22:40.17 | synic | er.. s/than/at |
| 22:40.57 | gibba[w] | the problem: i need a div (or any block level element) to be 100% width and height of the window (or at least appear to be) that is floating above the rest of the layout and doesn't disrupt the layout under it |
| 22:41.09 | gibba[w] | and when i say under i mean below on the z-index |
| 22:45.39 | tierra | maybe look at it backwards, and toss the rest of the page on a div on a higher z-index? |
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| 22:57.25 | beandog | what is it with wednesdays |
| 22:57.29 | beandog | almost the entire office here is gone |
| 22:57.40 | beandog | er |
| 22:57.43 | beandog | today is wednesday, isnt it? |
| 23:03.36 | _psychic_ | yup |
| 23:09.24 | beandog | I missed new release tuesday |
| 23:15.35 | thebigdog | im the new release |
| 23:15.43 | thebigdog | hey beandog ty for saturday |
| 23:16.02 | beandog | huh |
| 23:16.56 | _psychic_ | ~phit jbot |
| 23:16.57 | jbot | ACTION wiggles his fingers jbot's direction. You now have a strong conviction that Java is concise. |
