| 00:07.12 | thebigdog | importing 32m records is a lot of data |
| 00:07.21 | jsmith | Yup. |
| 00:07.37 | cyco|w | into what? |
| 00:07.42 | thebigdog | pgsql |
| 00:07.44 | thebigdog | gis data |
| 00:07.55 | cyco|w | ahh.. pretty fast? |
| 00:08.03 | thebigdog | takes a few |
| 00:08.11 | thebigdog | gis data is a ton of stuff |
| 00:08.13 | beandog | use COPY |
| 00:08.15 | beandog | it'll go much fastah. |
| 00:08.18 | thebigdog | yeah it si copy |
| 00:08.20 | beandog | doh. |
| 00:08.33 | beandog | well then gzip it into a PDF. that speeds things up too. |
| 00:08.43 | thebigdog | lol |
| 00:08.46 | thebigdog | yeah it does |
| 00:09.02 | thebigdog | that is gigs of data |
| 00:09.06 | beandog | and XML ... be sure to use XML. |
| 00:09.09 | thebigdog | lol |
| 00:09.12 | thebigdog | xml for everything |
| 00:09.22 | thebigdog | then i use xslt to transform to fop |
| 00:09.23 | beandog | how does that quote go |
| 00:09.32 | beandog | XML is a lot like violence, if it doesnt work, you aren't using it enough. |
| 00:09.34 | thebigdog | fop it up and in |
| 00:11.43 | jsmith | thebigdog: If only the'd finish the rewrite of fop |
| 00:14.18 | thebigdog | someday someday |
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| 14:29.27 | mindjuju | i kinda like the idea of a CSS users group |
| 14:29.34 | mindjuju | i wonder if it'll take? |
| 14:37.31 | pr0le | mindjuju: that's a great idea. with all the quirks of CSS it should have it's own user group |
| 14:38.23 | pr0le | first meeting: replacing tables for non-tabular data :) |
| 14:38.23 | mindjuju | yeah, was just writing a response to Velda's email suggesting that we move on that one |
| 14:38.50 | mindjuju | course though, only one prob |
| 14:39.16 | pr0le | what's that? |
| 14:39.18 | mindjuju | can the OSS community and the proprietary software community sit in the same room at the same time? |
| 14:39.27 | mindjuju | you'll have EVERYBODY there |
| 14:39.40 | pr0le | ha, true |
| 14:39.47 | mindjuju | .net , .php , .jsp |
| 14:39.49 | mindjuju | everybody |
| 14:40.24 | mindjuju | on the other hand, i think it could be VERY beneficial |
| 14:41.18 | pr0le | I agree. after all, it'll all come down to the presentation, and not so much the languages used |
| 14:41.38 | mindjuju | plus, who doesn't like a decent fight? |
| 14:42.03 | mindjuju | we could almost make a joke of it, and have 50 lbs gloves brought to the meet |
| 14:42.20 | synic | I'm sure if a rule was made to not go off topic, and ask politely to stop if it does, you wouldn't have a problem |
| 14:42.48 | synic | ... or just bring a baseball bad and whack anyone that does go off |
| 14:42.56 | synic | s/bad/bat |
| 14:42.57 | mindjuju | heh |
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| 15:09.36 | timinator | I like the gloves idea.... |
| 15:09.40 | timinator | then we could sell tickets |
| 15:09.53 | timinator | pay per view baby |
| 15:11.25 | mindjuju | yeah! |
| 15:11.37 | timinator | "In this corner, weighing in at 163 lbs, known for it's ease of use and open source foundation, we have PHP" |
| 15:13.34 | timinator | "In the other corner, weighing in at 182 lbs,, the bad boy, the clunky, bloated, M$ bound ASP!!!" |
| 15:13.59 | timinator | I'll bring the popcorn |
| 15:14.32 | mindjuju | i can even tell you how the fights 'll start |
| 15:14.45 | mindjuju | it'll start at IE's adoption of CSS |
| 15:14.51 | mindjuju | then will go to IE v FF |
| 15:14.58 | mindjuju | then name calling |
| 15:15.03 | jsmith | mindjuju: adoption? More like an abortion... |
| 15:15.08 | mindjuju | then jumping from tables, full rumble |
| 15:15.17 | timinator | LOL |
| 15:15.28 | jsmith | Or at least a serious case of child abuse |
| 15:15.32 | timinator | then somebody'll pull a piece and it'll all be over |
| 15:15.46 | mindjuju | and people think geeks are so passive |
| 15:15.50 | timinator | cops, cusffs |
| 15:15.58 | jsmith | ~shoot bad software |
| 15:16.00 | jbot | ACTION shoots bad software in the ear with a glue gun! |
| 15:16.04 | timinator | LOL |
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| 16:20.19 | mindjuju | ahhhh YEAH! nothin' like dallas funk factory! check out breaks@di.fm if you love the breaks! |
| 16:20.45 | mindjuju | that goes double for dataw0lf since he loves the breaks! |
| 16:21.32 | synic | ... but Shiloh is on ravetrax.com! |
| 16:21.36 | synic | WHAT A DILLEMA! |
| 16:21.52 | mindjuju | dallas, you gots to go dallas! |
| 16:22.01 | synic | AAAH! |
| 16:22.13 | synic | I hate you |
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| 17:42.27 | macnewbold | ~cookie |
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| 19:26.38 | mindjuju | ~rlart |
| 19:26.56 | synic | yeah, he's totally a dork |
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| 19:35.27 | bradym | dataw0lf, you around? |
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| 19:52.54 | thebigdog | ~smack beandog |
| 19:52.56 | jbot | ACTION smacks beandog upside the head. |
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| 20:42.28 | macnewbold | ~rlart |
| 20:42.34 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 20:42.49 | timinator | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:42.51 | macnewbold | feeling satisfied, /me goes back to work |
| 20:43.21 | beandog | thebigdog: whot now? |
| 20:43.32 | mindjuju | hey, macnewbold, i just mentioned you in an email on the uphpu list |
| 20:48.10 | mindjuju | the beandog afraid of thebigdog ? pshah! thebigdog is a lot of bark and very little bite |
| 20:48.27 | timinator | I'd swear there's a wand and some latin involved |
| 20:49.23 | timinator | thebigdog has a bite, he's just patient. |
| 20:50.15 | mindjuju | hey, i forgot. we need to find a place for geek lunch |
| 20:52.32 | Utah_Dave | macnewbold: yeah, I'd love to hear your thoughts on that email |
| 20:52.45 | mindjuju | ~wake macnewbold |
| 20:52.47 | jbot | ACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on macnewbold and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!" |
| 20:52.56 | mindjuju | ~melvin macnewbold |
| 20:52.58 | jbot | ACTION pulls macnewbold underwear up to the ceiling...and smiles |
| 20:53.05 | macnewbold | ~bonk mindjuju |
| 20:53.07 | jbot | ACTION bonks mindjuju over the head |
| 20:53.15 | macnewbold | Utah_Dave: replying right now, in fact :) |
| 20:53.19 | mindjuju | heh, i knew it would work eventually |
| 20:54.01 | Utah_Dave | coo |
| 20:54.06 | Utah_Dave | cool |
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| 21:05.31 | mindjuju | dan's is funny, i should use that |
| 21:05.44 | mindjuju | *After* you come up with your estimate, then double the value, and increase the unit of measure by one. |
| 21:05.44 | mindjuju | So, if the estimate ends up being 40 weeks -- it really means 80 months. |
| 21:06.01 | _psychic_ | holy crap 3-4 times your estimates? |
| 21:15.14 | tierra | I think I usually at least double to account for unforseen problems (which _always_ come up), or I triple if I know they've got me working on other stuff at the same time (that's also inevitably going to need additional time) |
| 21:17.43 | Utah_Dave | tierra: that's part of my problem. coding isn't my only responsibility. I spent this whole morning working on out-processing user accounts. |
| 21:18.06 | _psychic_ | how is it a real estimate if you double it, though? |
| 21:18.46 | tierra | because on average, that's how long it ends up taking, so yes, it's an estimate |
| 21:18.46 | mindjuju | well, you first get the likely deliverable date (real estimate) and double that. So what your giving isn't the real estiamte |
| 21:19.00 | mindjuju | that's your card to hold, padding is the hedge when things go wrong |
| 21:19.26 | _psychic_ | double, though? |
| 21:19.32 | _psychic_ | that sounds crazy to me |
| 21:19.36 | macnewbold | you guys are all on the right track... I'm about to send my reply... |
| 21:19.39 | mindjuju | well, true that |
| 21:19.42 | mindjuju | but.... |
| 21:19.49 | _psychic_ | if a project takes three months, you tell them six? |
| 21:19.58 | macnewbold | ~uphpu archives |
| 21:19.59 | jbot | uphpu archives is probably http://ibot.rikers.org/%23uphpu/, or http://uphpu.org/pipermail/uphpu/ |
| 21:20.07 | mindjuju | there is one source i should have quoted, that i didn't. |
| 21:20.08 | mindjuju | http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Scotty+Principle |
| 21:20.24 | _psychic_ | I don't think he doubled estimates though |
| 21:20.24 | tierra | Utah_Dave: working contracts vs working full time makes a big difference, where I'm working full time, I'm also keeping up maintenance on the systems I've already delivered, and it adds up |
| 21:20.40 | tierra | sounds like you know how that is :) |
| 21:26.43 | _psychic_ | macnewbold: well said |
| 21:26.53 | macnewbold | _psychic_: thanks |
| 21:26.56 | macnewbold | I hope it helps someone |
| 21:27.00 | macnewbold | we've done a lot of it over the years |
| 21:27.03 | macnewbold | and learned a lot of lessons |
| 21:27.12 | _psychic_ | I bet |
| 21:27.34 | macnewbold | mindjuju: I'm going to post that link, okay? |
| 21:27.35 | _psychic_ | You constantly have to hone estimating, prototyping, proposals, etc. |
| 21:30.50 | macnewbold | yeah, it takes time and practice most of the time |
| 21:31.13 | macnewbold | if you don't have practice, it's never too late to start, but be careful - make the ranges as big and conservative as you can get away with at first |
| 21:31.32 | macnewbold | and document like crazy the factors that make plans change and budgets run out and weeks go by too quickly |
| 21:31.58 | tierra | macnewbold: your posts are getting too chatty again |
| 21:32.27 | macnewbold | ~trim tierra |
| 21:32.57 | macnewbold | tierra meant: macnewbold: your posts are getting too |
| 21:33.05 | macnewbold | and was going to follow up with something positive |
| 21:33.38 | macnewbold | it takes thousands of words (or at least a dozen pictures) to demystify the black magic of project estimating |
| 21:33.51 | tierra | that's true |
| 21:33.53 | macnewbold | plus someone asked :) |
| 21:34.05 | macnewbold | it wasn't like I was just spouting off to hear myself on the mailing list |
| 21:34.10 | macnewbold | ;) |
| 21:34.14 | macnewbold | but point taken |
| 21:36.00 | macnewbold | I usually think that if my reply is about 10K or more bigger than the message it replied to, it is getting too big |
| 21:36.19 | macnewbold | this one went from 4K to 11K, so I did say a lot |
| 21:36.22 | Utah_Dave | macnewbold: great post to the mailing list |
| 21:36.29 | macnewbold | Utah_Dave: I hope that helps |
| 21:36.32 | Utah_Dave | yeah. |
| 21:36.43 | macnewbold | mostly it comes down to remembering all the things that go into the project cost/timeline, end to end |
| 21:36.58 | Utah_Dave | I think I'm going to have to start tracking how much time I spend on each task or feature. That will probably help me get a better idea of how long things take |
| 21:37.00 | macnewbold | forgetting things and not factoring them in gets you blamed for all sorts of things that aren't your fault :) |
| 21:37.08 | macnewbold | yeah, it isn't a bad idea at all |
| 21:37.32 | macnewbold | there are things like gtimer or titrax/timetracker or who knows what else that can help with stuff like that |
| 21:37.51 | macnewbold | even just making annotations with rough guesses in your flyspray/bugtracker can help |
| 21:38.17 | macnewbold | if you've got estimates on medium sized tasks, it's easier to add it up and see what it really takes to do it |
| 21:38.28 | tierra | I may write project scheduling software, but our company is far from one that can accurately hit deadlines, heh. |
| 21:39.06 | macnewbold | but don't forget to add in the time to integrate all the pieces, and test them all together, in the test environment and the live environment, and the time it takes to get everything launched, etc. |
| 21:39.15 | macnewbold | that's funny, tierra |
| 21:39.33 | macnewbold | you'd think that if MS used MS Project they might stand a chance, but they're worse than almost every company I know |
| 21:39.41 | tierra | hehe |
| 21:39.42 | mindjuju | macnewbold++ |
| 21:39.54 | mindjuju | that's good stuff, i'm printing it for my padawan |
| 21:39.59 | macnewbold | haha |
| 21:40.06 | _psychic_ | its funny we have this discussion on the day vista launched |
| 21:40.15 | macnewbold | the Scotty principle is great, and works in real life |
| 21:40.18 | macnewbold | haha |
| 21:43.08 | tierra | 10-20% on testing.... |
| 21:43.59 | tierra | we spend about that much time ourselves, but we should honestly be spending closer to 30% |
| 21:44.31 | tierra | though a lot of what I work on can't be backed up by unit tests |
| 21:44.49 | macnewbold | yeah, sometimes it is hard to test at the small scale |
| 21:45.01 | macnewbold | but if you can't unit test, one thing that helps is a good debug trail |
| 21:45.08 | macnewbold | printf debugging it is usually called |
| 21:45.19 | macnewbold | if you're getting a wrong result, print out what's going on here and there, |
| 21:45.32 | macnewbold | and as soon as you can find where it breaks down, you can isolate your bug |
| 21:46.21 | tierra | well, I also factor in usability testing when I talk about testing since I'm developing for general public consumption |
| 21:46.36 | macnewbold | the same goes for doing profiling when something is taking way too long to excute |
| 21:46.44 | macnewbold | yeah, that's true |
| 21:46.56 | macnewbold | it takes users (usually dumb users) to really do good usability testing |
| 21:47.26 | macnewbold | we never cease to be amazed at some of the things users do in some of the stuff we've made |
| 21:47.34 | tierra | hehe |
| 21:47.49 | macnewbold | especially frequent are dumb things that school principals and administrators pull off, |
| 21:47.58 | macnewbold | or that the sales reps for another site manage to pull |
| 21:48.15 | macnewbold | there's all sorts of "// remember, sales reps are dumb, so we have to do it this way" comments in one of our sites |
| 21:48.22 | tierra | haha |
| 21:48.34 | macnewbold | along with the "<!-- MSIE is stupid, so we've got to use the <center> tag to make this work right...-->" |
| 21:49.29 | mindjuju | that's funny, do ya'll remember that MS site that got dugg that had some comment like that? it said something like Dumb IE CSS bug hack, on an MS web site |
| 22:02.15 | Black_Chaos | I remember! |
| 22:13.00 | macnewbold | ~ibot mindjuju |
| 22:13.02 | jbot | ACTION does... erm... I dunno... some bot stuff or something to mindjuju. |
| 22:13.29 | mindjuju | ~poo macnewbold |
| 22:13.31 | jbot | ACTION summons a troop of flying monkeys to fling their poo at macnewbold |
| 22:13.37 | macnewbold | ~wedgie mindjuju |
| 22:13.39 | jbot | ACTION hangs mindjuju from the flag pole by his underwear |
| 22:13.51 | mindjuju | ~nosepick macnewbold |
| 22:13.52 | jbot | ACTION plucks macnewbold out of the nose of humanity and wipes him on the couch! |
| 22:14.05 | mindjuju | hey macnewbold , we got to plan the geek lunch |
| 22:14.19 | macnewbold | is it the 2nd, or the 9th? |
| 22:14.31 | mindjuju | 9th |
| 22:14.34 | macnewbold | deadwood's bbq? |
| 22:14.48 | mindjuju | i want to, but FUNGUS .... no eat meat |
| 22:14.53 | macnewbold | ah, right |
| 22:15.02 | mindjuju | course though, he did ditch us last time |
| 22:15.06 | macnewbold | don't they have like a roasted tofu or something healthy like that? |
| 22:15.15 | mindjuju | garden salads |
| 22:15.17 | macnewbold | yeah, he's been really really busy lately |
| 22:15.21 | mindjuju | they have soup and gardan salad |
| 22:15.57 | mindjuju | but let me say this for the record, their West Texas Beef ribs are best |
| 22:16.18 | macnewbold | well, unless fungus speaks up and says that (a) he's coming, and (b) he has a strong preference for somewhere else |
| 22:16.23 | macnewbold | I'd say let's go for it |
| 22:16.31 | mindjuju | yeah!!!! |
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| 22:17.25 | macnewbold | what's the price range like? |
| 22:17.57 | mindjuju | it seems like lunch is from 7 ~ 10 |
| 22:18.17 | mindjuju | though i'll prolly order rack o ribs and take home left overs |
| 22:18.35 | macnewbold | 7am-10pm? or 7pm-10pm? or 7am-10am? |
| 22:18.44 | macnewbold | oh, dollars |
| 22:18.45 | macnewbold | gotcah |
| 22:18.48 | mindjuju | yeah |
| 22:18.53 | macnewbold | s/tcah/tcha/ |
| 22:19.10 | mindjuju | if ya'll want a coworker of mine has a menu, i can PDF and post it somewhere |
| 22:19.14 | macnewbold | what time? 12:30p? 1p? |
| 22:19.32 | macnewbold | don't they have a web site? send them my card - we might be able to work out a trade... |
| 22:19.35 | mindjuju | doesn't matter, what do you think? |
| 22:19.36 | macnewbold | j/k |
| 22:19.43 | macnewbold | it's in sandy |
| 22:19.45 | mindjuju | yeah, their site sucks |
| 22:19.50 | macnewbold | not too out of the way for most of us |
| 22:20.00 | macnewbold | those of us that come anyway (~lart thebigdog) |
| 22:20.11 | mindjuju | yeah, it's the same exit as the uphpu meets |
| 22:20.14 | macnewbold | I'm fine with either |
| 22:20.29 | mindjuju | except that instead of going west, you go east to the first light and it's right there |
| 22:20.43 | thebigdog | to far for thebigdog |
| 22:20.46 | mindjuju | let's say, goodwood, feb 9 1p |
| 22:21.16 | mindjuju | yeah, thebigdog is prolly a vegetarian anyways. |
| 22:21.16 | macnewbold | sounds fine to me |
| 22:21.20 | macnewbold | send out the promo to the list |
| 22:21.28 | mindjuju | will do |
| 22:21.32 | macnewbold | w00t |
| 22:21.40 | macnewbold | we'll have to get wps or someone to put it on the calendar |
| 22:21.40 | thebigdog | i am |
| 22:21.54 | macnewbold | yeah, you'd never eat an asado I'm sure |
| 22:22.01 | macnewbold | or a chorizo, all plump and dripping with juices |
| 22:22.04 | wps | eh? |
| 22:22.17 | macnewbold | mindjuju: give wps the address and other details |
| 22:22.24 | mindjuju | will do |
| 22:22.24 | macnewbold | it's just something for the UPHPU calendar - geek lunch next week |
| 22:22.28 | macnewbold | sweet |
| 22:22.42 | mindjuju | brb |
| 22:26.01 | thebigdog | macnewbold i dont do chorizo...bad experience with that |
| 22:28.02 | beandog | story time! |
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| 22:52.28 | thebigdog | only in spanish |
| 22:54.20 | beandog | bueno |
| 22:54.31 | mindjuju | estoy listo |
| 22:55.48 | thebigdog | ok so my dl comes to do splits and we decide to eat lunch with this chilean family |
| 22:55.55 | thebigdog | they make some blood chorizo |
| 22:56.03 | thebigdog | we eat and it tastes good... |
| 22:56.51 | thebigdog | then at around 1am i feel the chorizo wants to make a come back |
| 22:56.57 | thebigdog | so im runnin to the bathroom |
| 22:57.05 | thebigdog | worst thing is i dont make it |
| 22:57.14 | beandog | sure, blame it on the sausage. |
| 22:57.17 | mindjuju | oh no! |
| 22:57.30 | thebigdog | so it all over the floor and entrance to the bathroom |
| 22:57.43 | thebigdog | so i start clean and my dl wakes up and asks what im doing |
| 22:57.51 | thebigdog | my response "night prayers" |
| 22:58.29 | thebigdog | so im not a big fan of the chorizo |
| 22:58.55 | beandog | hmm, meat never made me sick. |
| 22:58.57 | beandog | pasta, once. |
| 22:58.59 | beandog | that was it. |
| 23:02.17 | thebigdog | well blood chorizo |
| 23:03.48 | beandog | yah Ive had those too |
| 23:03.51 | beandog | theyre not bad |
| 23:04.16 | beandog | a little weird |
| 23:04.37 | thebigdog | they are sick...ive had some funky stuff...but that stuff is sick |
| 23:05.14 | beandog | funky stuff? |
| 23:05.15 | beandog | story time! |
| 23:05.16 | beandog | :D |
| 23:05.40 | thebigdog | pudding made from horse cartlidge |
| 23:05.57 | thebigdog | with vegs in it |
| 23:06.01 | thebigdog | that was funky |
| 23:06.10 | thebigdog | macnewbold you remember the salad dressing |
| 23:06.24 | thebigdog | ls |
| 23:07.14 | beandog | macnewbold ran off somewhere |
| 23:07.38 | thebigdog | so like the first week im there and they offer me a salad |
| 23:07.40 | beandog | the nastiest thing I ate was flan. blech. |
| 23:07.55 | thebigdog | bowl of green tomatos |
| 23:08.03 | thebigdog | tomatos are of the devil |
| 23:08.11 | thebigdog | so i asked for a green salad |
| 23:08.19 | thebigdog | they brought out a bowl of lettace |
| 23:08.23 | thebigdog | looked good |
| 23:08.37 | thebigdog | then poured crisco vegetable oil all over it for the dressing |
| 23:08.50 | thebigdog | i about lost the figgy puddin |
| 23:09.06 | thebigdog | flan is great...i love that stuff |
| 23:09.18 | beandog | crisco oil? |
| 23:09.22 | beandog | oy. |
| 23:09.27 | thebigdog | oh yeah |
| 23:09.41 | thebigdog | crisco vegi oil |
| 23:09.57 | Utah_Dave | I had cow hoof once |
| 23:10.02 | thebigdog | my comp laughed this butt off |
| 23:10.03 | beandog | I can feel my arteries collapsing already |
| 23:10.39 | beandog | thats nasty. |
| 23:11.23 | thebigdog | but on the other hand..i have had some of the best steak in the world |
| 23:11.32 | beandog | thebigdog: where did you go |
| 23:11.37 | _psychic_ | beandog: a friend tricked me |
| 23:11.42 | thebigdog | argentina |
| 23:11.46 | beandog | thebigdog: ! which part |
| 23:11.47 | _psychic_ | beandog: he was from Ghana |
| 23:11.58 | beandog | those crazy Ghanans. |
| 23:12.00 | thebigdog | neuquen and south |
| 23:12.06 | beandog | thebigdog: when?/ |
| 23:12.12 | thebigdog | 94-96 |
| 23:12.20 | thebigdog | sept. 94-96 |
| 23:12.27 | thebigdog | oh nice |
| 23:12.29 | Utah_Dave | I was in Chile 94-96 |
| 23:12.59 | thebigdog | welcome to the club |
| 23:13.15 | beandog | thebigdog: what cities |
| 23:15.30 | thebigdog | Cinco Saltos, Neuquen, Comodoro Riva. , Allen, Los Kilometros, Pico Truncado |
| 23:16.11 | thebigdog | esquel |
| 23:16.12 | beandog | ah wow, just the names bring back memories |
| 23:16.12 | beandog | I was in Esquel, 25 de Mayo, Neuquen |
| 23:16.12 | thebigdog | i opened a couple of those |
| 23:16.36 | beandog | Neuquen == 11 months. freek. |
| 23:17.09 | thebigdog | i was in comodoro for a long time |
| 23:18.11 | beandog | "Since I've been home I've immersed myself in Star Trek, and looking for women. In that order." |
| 23:18.14 | beandog | ah, some things neve rchange. |
| 23:18.40 | thebigdog | are you married now? |
| 23:19.17 | beandog | nope |
| 23:19.29 | beandog | I still havent seen all of DS9! |
| 23:19.33 | beandog | priorities, you know. |
| 23:19.38 | thebigdog | tru |
| 23:23.35 | thebigdog | there was some good times down there |
| 23:23.44 | beandog | toties. |
| 23:23.47 | beandog | id move back in a heartbeat. |
| 23:23.52 | thebigdog | yeah me too |
| 23:23.59 | thebigdog | i tried to the get the wife to go...but no luck |
| 23:24.09 | thebigdog | i love it down there |
| 23:24.15 | beandog | its really beautiful |
| 23:24.21 | thebigdog | esquel is beautiful |
| 23:24.25 | beandog | yah |
| 23:24.26 | beandog | and bolson |
| 23:24.32 | thebigdog | i love it there |
| 23:24.40 | thebigdog | did you go to the gaelic museum there |
| 23:25.23 | beandog | no |
| 23:25.26 | beandog | dont remember that |
| 23:25.34 | beandog | we did go to some waterfalls though |
| 23:25.38 | beandog | trevelin I think it was |
| 23:26.32 | thebigdog | yeah |
| 23:26.39 | thebigdog | we could not go under our pres |
| 23:26.48 | thebigdog | but we did hit the museum that was killer |
| 23:40.20 | beandog | sounds kinda familiar |
| 23:51.29 | *** part/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net) |