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| 04:53.29 | *** topic/#uphpu is Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org | January Meeting: PHP workshop hosted by OALUG & UPHPU Jan 27 in Ogden- Watch http://groups-beta.google.com/group/oalug for details |
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| 12:45.57 | timinator | mornin' PHPers |
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| 15:11.14 | dataw0lf | xilch|w: my puppy stole your rubber duckie |
| 15:39.32 | drip | gasp |
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| 15:55.31 | thebigdog | mornin all |
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| 15:58.19 | timinator | mornin thebigdog |
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| 17:02.08 | macnewbol1 | ~zippy |
| 17:07.53 | dataw0lf | morning all |
| 17:08.27 | macnewbold | g'day |
| 17:09.27 | dataw0lf | stupid |
| 17:15.15 | thebigdog | ~me loves the doc channel |
| 17:15.22 | jbot | moi? |
| 17:15.37 | thebigdog | 2 great docs - Iraq, My Country |
| 17:16.07 | thebigdog | War Photographer |
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| 17:49.25 | xilch|w | dataw0lf: nooooooooooooooooooooooo! |
| 17:49.39 | xilch|w | please keep the puppy from killing it |
| 17:49.52 | xilch|w | I couln't face a day without the duckie |
| 17:50.48 | dataw0lf | one sec, I'll show you the picture |
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| 17:54.30 | dataw0lf | xilch|w: http://stderr.ws/dump/gidget.jpg |
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| 18:08.50 | dataw0lf | huh |
| 18:09.06 | dataw0lf | why don't <hr>s respect block boundaries? |
| 18:14.24 | dataw0lf | dude |
| 18:14.24 | mindjuju | disturbed has those 2 cool songs |
| 18:14.29 | dataw0lf | you're fired timinator |
| 18:14.31 | dataw0lf | Disturbed sucks |
| 18:14.45 | dataw0lf | they're worse than Linkin Park |
| 18:14.52 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: Down with the Sickness? |
| 18:14.57 | mindjuju | yeah, that's one |
| 18:15.49 | dataw0lf | you should hear Richard Cheese and Lounge Against The Machine's version |
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| 18:16.55 | mindjuju | i'll look for it |
| 18:17.31 | dataw0lf | it's on the Dawn of the Dead (remake) soundtrack |
| 18:17.36 | dataw0lf | and there is a montage in the movie to it |
| 18:17.41 | dataw0lf | probably greatest montage ever |
| 18:17.54 | *** join/#uphpu bradym (n=bradym@bradym.agsci.usu.edu) |
| 18:18.05 | dataw0lf | bradym: what's the status? |
| 18:18.43 | bradym | I called Trey on Friday, and she said that she would follow-up to make sure that someone from HQ calls me. |
| 18:18.57 | bradym | Still waiting for a call |
| 18:19.02 | dataw0lf | eine moment |
| 18:19.35 | dataw0lf | alright just emailed her, she'll get back to me in less than 5 |
| 18:23.35 | dataw0lf | bradym: she hasn't heard back from the recruiters yet, but she's on it |
| 18:23.41 | dataw0lf | here's the exact email: |
| 18:23.49 | dataw0lf | I haven't heard back from the recruiters. Don't worry, I'm on it :) |
| 18:23.50 | dataw0lf | I talked to him on Friday. |
| 18:24.08 | bradym | cool, thanks :) |
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| 18:24.24 | timinator_ | I'm back baby |
| 18:30.19 | wps | I thought that thebigdog told you specifically to not call him that at work |
| 18:30.53 | timinator_ | wps: what? a baby? |
| 18:31.06 | wps | yup |
| 18:31.21 | timinator_ | he's not a baby, he rocks the house |
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| 18:32.22 | dataw0lf | timinator: please, leave bigdog and yours relationship offline. |
| 18:33.05 | timinator_ | he rocks the house, not my world |
| 18:33.13 | timinator_ | big difference |
| 18:46.22 | *** join/#uphpu swb (n=designsi@70.98.111.41) |
| 18:46.37 | timinator_ | hello swb |
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| 18:46.57 | swb | hello timinator |
| 18:47.26 | swb | GUESS WHAT?!?!?! |
| 18:47.34 | swb | I'm going to Web Directions North! |
| 18:47.38 | dataw0lf | holla! |
| 18:47.40 | dataw0lf | ^5 |
| 18:47.42 | swb | I'm so psyched. http://designsimply.com/ |
| 18:47.53 | timinator_ | COOL SWB |
| 18:48.14 | dataw0lf | swb: check out my puppy, she's the best http://stderr.ws/dump/gidget.jpg |
| 18:48.27 | swb | awwwwwwwwwwwwwww! |
| 18:48.39 | swb | Gidget is a way cute name |
| 18:48.50 | dataw0lf | ya, she's totally a gidget. |
| 18:49.31 | swb | I love dogs |
| 18:51.40 | swb | you've probably seen this pic of my pup: http://www.istockphoto.com/file_closeup.php?id=765505 |
| 18:58.42 | dataw0lf | ooh, nice looking dog |
| 18:59.11 | dataw0lf | http://stderr.ws/dump/dwngidget.jpg, my girlfriend took that while me and the puppy were playing and we both looked up guiltily |
| 18:59.57 | swb | have you ever had a dog before? |
| 19:00.24 | dataw0lf | yea |
| 19:00.32 | dataw0lf | two german shepherds and an australian shepherd |
| 19:00.37 | swb | cools |
| 19:01.48 | dataw0lf | can you display:none <tr> and <td> ? |
| 19:05.04 | dataw0lf | swb: you know the answer? |
| 19:05.07 | dataw0lf | gibba[w]: you? |
| 19:05.09 | dataw0lf | optikal: you? |
| 19:05.11 | dataw0lf | wps: you? |
| 19:05.17 | swb | you should be able to, but display:none will get rid of the box for that element |
| 19:05.33 | swb | so, display:none on the <td> might not be a good idea |
| 19:05.39 | swb | <tr> should be okay |
| 19:05.43 | dataw0lf | k, danke |
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| 19:06.12 | gibba[w] | dataw0lf: tr works i think ... but not td |
| 19:06.35 | mindjuju | just tried it and it works on both |
| 19:06.51 | mindjuju | tr style="display:none;" kills the whole row |
| 19:07.11 | mindjuju | td style="display:none" kills the cell |
| 19:07.25 | dataw0lf | ok, so here's the question |
| 19:07.27 | mindjuju | so, if you have 2 cells on the same row |
| 19:07.30 | dataw0lf | how would I delineate two separate blocks in a table |
| 19:07.34 | mindjuju | the far right one moves left |
| 19:07.37 | dataw0lf | one some trs that I want displayed right away |
| 19:07.51 | dataw0lf | the other some trs I want displayed with javascript upon clicking on a link |
| 19:07.56 | dataw0lf | sequential ids? |
| 19:08.11 | swb | mindjuju, if you display:none the td, won't that make your <table> code break? |
| 19:08.13 | dataw0lf | then just iterate through them in the javascript? |
| 19:08.32 | mindjuju | it didn't mine |
| 19:08.47 | mindjuju | are you seeing something different? |
| 19:09.51 | mindjuju | nope, works the same in FF 2 and IE 7 |
| 19:10.15 | mindjuju | td display none kills cell, tr kills row |
| 19:10.18 | swb | no, but I just think hiding the <td> box could have repercussions on a complicated CSS layout, just a hunch though |
| 19:10.32 | mindjuju | ohhh... i see |
| 19:10.46 | mindjuju | but then you'd be going up against wps's 1st rule of layout, don't use tables |
| 19:10.52 | mindjuju | for anything but tabular data |
| 19:11.09 | dataw0lf | It is tabular data |
| 19:11.18 | *** join/#uphpu brady2 (n=bradym@bradym.agsci.usu.edu) |
| 19:11.32 | dataw0lf | if it wasn't tabular data, I'd be using divs, sir. |
| 19:11.57 | brady2 | i believe i've hidden tr's with display: none before dw |
| 19:12.41 | mindjuju | now, back to dataw0lf's question though |
| 19:13.19 | dataw0lf | brady2: yea, I see that it can work now, now I'm just wondering how I would delineate two separate groups of <tr>s |
| 19:13.23 | dataw0lf | two tables? |
| 19:13.35 | bradym | <fieldset> |
| 19:14.26 | bradym | http://htmlhelp.com/reference/html40/forms/fieldset.html |
| 19:14.55 | dataw0lf | hmmmm |
| 19:14.59 | dataw0lf | are these accessible via the DOM? |
| 19:15.05 | *** join/#uphpu burnin (n=burnin@42dbe40e.dsl.aros.net) |
| 19:15.11 | bradym | i believe so |
| 19:15.25 | bradym | it can have an ID |
| 19:15.28 | dataw0lf | you may have just answered my question then, sir, let me check. |
| 19:15.39 | dataw0lf | if it can have an id, I assume it can be accessed via the DOM. Sweet. |
| 19:15.40 | dataw0lf | danke |
| 19:15.48 | bradym | np |
| 19:22.20 | bradym | so.. I just remembered that fieldset is used for form fields.. not table rows... dunno if it will work properly |
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| 19:26.36 | dataw0lf | bradym: yea, just figured that out too ;) |
| 19:27.24 | bradym | assuming you're using javascript to hide/display stuff you could just create a function that hides/displays elements with specific ids or something like that |
| 19:27.47 | dataw0lf | well, yea, but then I'd have to iterate, etc, so I'm just creating two tables |
| 19:28.00 | bradym | yeah, that would definitely be easier |
| 19:41.29 | Lone_Wanderer | Panama? |
| 19:42.39 | mindjuju | yeah, the van halen song from 1984 |
| 19:43.26 | mindjuju | haven't you heard the song Lone_Wanderer ? |
| 19:43.33 | Lone_Wanderer | no :'( |
| 19:43.44 | Lone_Wanderer | I lose at music. |
| 19:47.05 | mindjuju | Lone_Wanderer - i sent you a PM |
| 19:47.14 | Lone_Wanderer | Got it. |
| 19:47.16 | mindjuju | cool, listen to that |
| 19:47.20 | Lone_Wanderer | kk |
| 19:48.15 | burnin | I can barely see the road from the heat coming off |
| 19:49.07 | mindjuju | yeah! |
| 19:52.50 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh, that is a good one! |
| 19:53.07 | mindjuju | yup, tons of air guitar play on that one |
| 19:55.39 | mindjuju | in case anybody here needs a course on Air Guitars, i recommend this one... it's the best! |
| 19:55.41 | mindjuju | http://www.mirrorimage.com/air/ |
| 19:55.46 | Lone_Wanderer | There's a new holiday. |
| 19:55.53 | Lone_Wanderer | Calendar Programmer Appreciation Day |
| 19:56.24 | Lone_Wanderer | It occurs on the first Friday following the first new moon after the date six months prior to the next year's date for Mardi Gras. |
| 19:56.50 | bradym | so basically you have to be a calendar programmer to know when that is.. |
| 19:57.37 | mindjuju | hmm... speed tests |
| 19:57.46 | mindjuju | how much do they charge? |
| 19:58.24 | Lone_Wanderer | Nah it's easy. You just find out what next year's vernal equinox is, jump ahead to the next full moon, then go to the next sunday, then the next tuesday. Then you go back six months, then forward to the next new moon, and then go to the next Friday after it. |
| 19:58.42 | bradym | lol |
| 19:59.12 | bradym | or have your calendar programmer add it to your calendar... ;) |
| 20:09.22 | Lone_Wanderer | August 17th |
| 20:09.35 | Lone_Wanderer | That's this year's. And mindjuju - they charge about $500 a year, plus a $500 setup fee. |
| 20:10.03 | mindjuju | did you see my response to your email Lone_Wanderer ? |
| 20:10.07 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah. |
| 20:10.11 | Lone_Wanderer | Thanks :) |
| 20:10.14 | mindjuju | fo sho |
| 20:10.35 | mindjuju | Anybody here REALLY proud of their website so we can test it on websiteoptimization.com ? |
| 20:11.57 | mindjuju | $500 setup fee? that's a bunch of phooey! sounds more like a rounded up car payment |
| 20:12.31 | _psychic_ | those of you who are LDS, the CIO will be holding some open tech talks this month |
| 20:12.39 | _psychic_ | might be interesting to check out fwiw |
| 20:13.22 | mindjuju | dat coo -- where's the info on the particulars? |
| 20:13.36 | mindjuju | hey, anybody here have a cellphone or pda that they'd recommend. I'm looking for something that can hit the internet, get webpages , email, etc |
| 20:13.40 | _psychic_ | http://lds.org/techtalks |
| 20:14.28 | mindjuju | that's pretty cool! |
| 20:14.47 | _psychic_ | he's really open to the community |
| 20:20.04 | *** join/#uphpu gibba[w] (i=gibbawho@209-253-35-21.ip.mcleodusa.net) |
| 20:22.42 | Lone_Wanderer | Does PHP have any libraries that deal with the phases of the moon? |
| 20:23.22 | bradym | http://www.phpclasses.org/browse/package/1201.html |
| 20:23.32 | bradym | never used it myself though |
| 20:24.13 | Lone_Wanderer | kk |
| 20:24.26 | mindjuju | wow, that's cool! |
| 20:29.19 | Lone_Wanderer | It'd be a lot cooler if I could just download the dang thing. |
| 20:30.34 | bradym | yeah, there are a few things that bug me about that site.. some good stuff on it though |
| 20:30.41 | timinator_ | http://www.phpclasses.org/browse/package/1201/download/targz.html |
| 20:33.55 | Lone_Wanderer | What's that one? |
| 20:34.36 | timinator_ | same one.... downloads the whole dang thing |
| 20:34.37 | mindjuju | it brings up the linnk to download the file, but you still have to be logged in |
| 20:34.42 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh ok |
| 20:34.56 | timinator_ | ahh ...yes, need an account |
| 20:35.19 | mindjuju | yeah, and they have dodgeit.com blocked so you can't give them something phoney |
| 20:35.46 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v timinator] by ChanServ |
| 20:35.55 | Lone_Wanderer | Ahh, php DOES have an easter calculation function. |
| 20:35.57 | mindjuju | i have an email account i use for this exact purpose, a gmail one. never check it unless i need an auth code or something like in this case |
| 20:42.23 | mindjuju | dang, doesn't anybody offer a cell plan that allows you to access the internet? |
| 20:42.55 | thebigdog | lol |
| 20:43.01 | thebigdog | probably not...that is an addon feature |
| 20:43.37 | mindjuju | man! i can't even find it that way! |
| 20:43.41 | mindjuju | for verizon at least |
| 20:44.05 | Lone_Wanderer | mindjuju: Cingular has one but it's expensive. |
| 20:45.20 | timinator | T-Mobile too |
| 20:46.04 | timinator | $30/mo |
| 20:53.25 | mindjuju | ugh, now i remember why i hate my cell phone and celluar companies |
| 20:53.53 | mindjuju | you can't go 2 sentences in their product descript without reading "additional fees apply" |
| 20:54.43 | timinator | I've been happy w/ T-Mobile |
| 20:55.16 | _psychic_ | me too |
| 20:55.20 | _psychic_ | the faves thing rocks |
| 20:55.48 | timinator | I just miss the days when my phone bill was $25 |
| 20:56.01 | mindjuju | yeah, it's crazy how much they are charging |
| 20:56.02 | timinator | (land line) |
| 20:56.09 | mindjuju | yeah, them too |
| 20:56.24 | dataw0lf | no kidding |
| 20:56.29 | mindjuju | freak! our base landline service is like $20, no long distance, no extras |
| 20:56.31 | dataw0lf | my phone bill is around 90 bucks a month |
| 20:56.32 | mindjuju | no nothing!!! |
| 20:56.36 | dataw0lf | but I have unlimited internets on it |
| 20:58.02 | mindjuju | unlimited internet on your cellphone? |
| 21:06.40 | dataw0lf | yea |
| 21:06.56 | mindjuju | that's what i want |
| 21:06.58 | dataw0lf | Treo 700p / Verizon |
| 21:07.06 | dataw0lf | the basic plan is 79.95 |
| 21:07.09 | dataw0lf | pretty fast internets |
| 21:07.25 | mindjuju | i want to be able to create a little web page with some server stats on CPU, memory usage, etc |
| 21:07.35 | mindjuju | and be able to open the page and see it |
| 21:07.45 | dataw0lf | shoot, I have TuSSH on my Treo, I just login and hax my servers from there. |
| 21:07.47 | mindjuju | would you be able to do that with the phone / internet ? |
| 21:07.53 | mindjuju | yeah, exactly |
| 21:08.04 | mindjuju | is that the cheapest plan they got for that? |
| 21:09.13 | dataw0lf | Yea. |
| 21:27.28 | *** part/#uphpu bradym (n=bradym@bradym.agsci.usu.edu) |
| 21:31.05 | Lone_Wanderer | Unlimited internets? |
| 21:31.15 | Lone_Wanderer | So you can have one internet or a hundred internets and it's the same price?? |
| 21:31.41 | dataw0lf | that's correct. It utilizes quantum technology to send your packets to various alternate universes. |
| 21:32.39 | Lone_Wanderer | That's awesome. |
| 21:33.05 | Lone_Wanderer | To find the day that's 183 days before a given date, do I have to do math on a timestamp? |
| 21:33.37 | herlo | dataw0lf: I want to go to the 4th universe from the left |
| 21:34.03 | Lone_Wanderer | Don't photons pretty much bounce around from universe to unverse at will anyway? |
| 21:34.09 | Lone_Wanderer | universe* |
| 21:35.25 | dataw0lf | that's the idea. |
| 21:35.29 | dataw0lf | herlo: k, eine moment. |
| 21:35.33 | dataw0lf | VOILA! |
| 21:35.42 | dataw0lf | herlo: adka dkda ekddka eelkda dkda ? |
| 21:35.45 | dataw0lf | oops |
| 21:35.51 | dataw0lf | sorry, my keyboard switched to Dvorak in this universe. |
| 21:36.07 | herlo | dataw0lf: no, that's the 5th from the right, I want the 4th from the left |
| 21:36.23 | herlo | it's "gumpta quar" |
| 21:36.29 | herlo | something something |
| 21:36.43 | herlo | but I can't pronounce (or spell) that something part |
| 21:36.47 | dataw0lf | dang it |
| 21:37.01 | herlo | I need more keycodes than are available in UTF-8 |
| 21:37.18 | dataw0lf | damn this universe, so restrictive! |
| 21:37.30 | Lone_Wanderer | I want the universe where I can fly. |
| 21:37.41 | Lone_Wanderer | (Just me, nobody else.) |
| 21:37.48 | dataw0lf | k, LW, done |
| 21:37.54 | dataw0lf | go jump of a building to test |
| 21:37.58 | dataw0lf | s/of/off |
| 21:38.03 | Lone_Wanderer | I think I'll start with something small to test. |
| 21:38.19 | Lone_Wanderer | It's not working :( |
| 21:38.24 | dataw0lf | no, no, um, in this universe, you, uh, need to fall at least 40 feet |
| 21:38.24 | dataw0lf | k? |
| 21:38.26 | herlo | Lone_Wanderer: you can do that in this universe, what do you need another universe for |
| 21:38.33 | dataw0lf | o |
| 21:38.33 | dataw0lf | m |
| 21:38.34 | herlo | dataw0lf: 42 feet |
| 21:38.35 | dataw0lf | g |
| 21:38.39 | dataw0lf | n3td3v is BACK! |
| 21:38.47 | Lone_Wanderer | netdev? |
| 21:38.48 | dataw0lf | herlo: ah, yes. :-) |
| 21:38.53 | dataw0lf | yes, n3td3v |
| 21:39.01 | dataw0lf | the infamous, hilarious troll of FD |
| 21:39.14 | Lone_Wanderer | FD? |
| 21:39.21 | dataw0lf | Full Disclosure |
| 21:39.26 | dataw0lf | tis a sec mailing list |
| 21:39.29 | Lone_Wanderer | Full Discl... never mind. |
| 21:39.31 | Lone_Wanderer | Ahh, okay. |
| 21:39.47 | dataw0lf | funniest kid ever. |
| 21:40.01 | Lone_Wanderer | Is he a better troll than what's his name? |
| 21:40.19 | Lone_Wanderer | You know, the guy from Dallas. |
| 21:40.26 | dataw0lf | here's a quality quote: |
| 21:40.32 | dataw0lf | 'The most powerful hackers in the world being told to get off fd, well that says a lot for fd then doesn't it. I'll be off and leave you skids to it. I don't want to hold up your list of "free vulnerabilities and exploits" which you stalk this list for, because none of you can find your own vulnerabilities to hack the planet with, bye.' |
| 21:40.43 | dataw0lf | this might be in response to me, I do have fun with him. |
| 21:41.02 | Lone_Wanderer | skids? |
| 21:41.04 | Lone_Wanderer | script kiddies? |
| 21:41.11 | dataw0lf | I assume. |
| 21:41.15 | dataw0lf | here's another |
| 21:41.17 | dataw0lf | " |
| 21:41.19 | dataw0lf | You think this is a joke? n3td3v was never a joke, but everyone on fd treated it like one. We're the biggest group around of rogue employees at major internet companies aka dot-coms... i'm ready to walk upto my local police sation right now just get hand them in, i'm not having a major breakdown... ive known them for 7 years and now im ready to hand myself in and give evidence against these guys at yahoo " |
| 21:41.33 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 21:41.33 | Lone_Wanderer | I have a friend who was fast becoming a script kiddie. I tried to warn him off it but he didn't listen. |
| 21:41.49 | dataw0lf | I love script kiddies. |
| 21:42.34 | Lone_Wanderer | I was telling him about how if he wanted to be a "leet haxor" he'd have to learn all sorts of stuff like the TCP/IP stack, assembly, etc. |
| 21:43.01 | Lone_Wanderer | and he had a friend who was a script kiddie and was telling him "Nah it's easy you just download these programs and run them and there you go!" |
| 21:43.34 | Lone_Wanderer | Then he joined the Marines and he's doing computer stuff for them in Japan now. |
| 21:43.39 | dataw0lf | to be a 1337 hax0r you merely need to understand some internals of TCP/IP and know how to smooth talk |
| 21:44.00 | Lone_Wanderer | He didn't want to learn anything though. |
| 21:44.09 | Lone_Wanderer | So he chose to believe his friend instead of me. |
| 21:44.27 | dataw0lf | oh well, one more kid to make fun of, I count it as a benefit |
| 21:46.06 | Lone_Wanderer | Xah lee |
| 21:46.12 | Lone_Wanderer | Is the famous troll from Dallas. |
| 21:46.20 | dataw0lf | ahhhh |
| 21:46.31 | dataw0lf | yes, but Xah Lee isn't as funny |
| 21:46.33 | dataw0lf | he's just annoying. |
| 21:51.22 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: Whatever is relative to your existence, I'm sure. |
| 21:52.06 | mindjuju | hey, i was talking about others, mine are clean enough i could pack them back up and sell'em |
| 21:57.14 | mindjuju | yeah, dataw0lf, but going back to his original question, is it something that can be built? |
| 21:59.35 | Lone_Wanderer | Hmm. |
| 21:59.42 | Lone_Wanderer | Is there British slang for "confused"? |
| 22:00.05 | mindjuju | "bloody" ? |
| 22:00.06 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: I must've forgotten. What can be built? |
| 22:00.30 | mindjuju | oh, your response to the email just a second ago |
| 22:00.34 | mindjuju | about the speed test |
| 22:00.51 | dataw0lf | Keynote or just a speed testing system in general? |
| 22:01.00 | Lone_Wanderer | Just speed testing in general. |
| 22:01.07 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm just wondering if the services are worth the money or not. |
| 22:01.09 | dataw0lf | If you have the resources. |
| 22:01.24 | dataw0lf | I mean, you're probably going to want three or four nodes, at the very least, scattered across your demo area |
| 22:02.06 | dataw0lf | getting VPSes in Chicago, D.C., L.A., and Seattle would be a start. |
| 22:02.47 | Lone_Wanderer | Ahh okay. |
| 22:02.50 | Lone_Wanderer | Well never mind then. |
| 22:02.59 | Lone_Wanderer | Cheaper just to pay them. |
| 22:03.23 | mindjuju | i'd make sure they are doing that too, though |
| 22:03.54 | mindjuju | and that "they" just aren't some kid sitting in his basement, finger up his nose with a great script |
| 22:04.24 | dataw0lf | yea, make sure they have at least 4 or 5 nodes |
| 22:04.31 | dataw0lf | if they don't, look into Keynote, they're pretty good. |
| 22:04.49 | dataw0lf | no idea how much they cost. |
| 22:05.52 | mindjuju | hey, Lone_Wanderer |
| 22:06.02 | mindjuju | go to sourceforge.net and look up Zenoss Core |
| 22:06.06 | mindjuju | looks interesting |
| 22:06.17 | mindjuju | and written in Python, that should appease dataw0lf |
| 22:07.20 | dataw0lf | well, for web performance / speed, an app on the same server isn't a good idea. |
| 22:07.31 | dataw0lf | You want different nodes on at least the major backbones |
| 22:08.03 | mindjuju | it's to be run on the same server? |
| 22:08.17 | mindjuju | (hadn't looked that far into it, just started looking into an OSS solution) |
| 22:08.51 | dataw0lf | yea, it's just a network / system monitoring app |
| 22:08.54 | swb | Anyone planning to attend Web Directions in Feb? https://secure.webdirections.org/wdn07/aff/wdnsb |
| 22:09.09 | dataw0lf | I mean, if Lone_Wanderer means intranet structure and testing, that's easy |
| 22:09.16 | dataw0lf | I thought he meant external speed tests on his site |
| 22:09.19 | Lone_Wanderer | No, it's internet testing. |
| 22:09.20 | dataw0lf | swb: Me. |
| 22:09.37 | swb | yay!, I just got permission to go |
| 22:09.48 | dataw0lf | I'm going to hit Whistler like a cannonball |
| 22:11.50 | Lone_Wanderer | Breeders! |
| 22:12.30 | swb | dataw0lf, have you already registered? |
| 22:12.46 | dataw0lf | Dunno, my company is taking care of that for me. |
| 22:13.26 | swb | ah, well, I had signed up as an affiliate, so I was wondering if you used my link to sign up |
| 22:13.45 | dataw0lf | I'll tell Abrams to sign me up via that if he hasn't already. |
| 22:13.52 | swb | thanx!! |
| 22:13.54 | dataw0lf | np |
| 22:14.25 | dataw0lf | ? |
| 22:14.29 | Lone_Wanderer | Breeders! |
| 22:14.31 | Lone_Wanderer | Cannonball. |
| 22:14.55 | dataw0lf | Breeders? |
| 22:15.01 | Lone_Wanderer | You don't know this song? |
| 22:15.11 | Lone_Wanderer | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iK30kW6JssI |
| 22:15.13 | dataw0lf | I refuse to breed. |
| 22:15.26 | dataw0lf | The might that would be unleashed on the world would be too much for the likes of ye mortals. |
| 22:15.27 | mindjuju | i've heard the song "beaners" from chech and chong |
| 22:15.40 | Lone_Wanderer | Just listen to the song. |
| 22:15.45 | dataw0lf | k |
| 22:16.22 | dataw0lf | ooooh, the Breeders |
| 22:16.26 | dataw0lf | yea, they're ok |
| 22:16.29 | dataw0lf | kinda Pixies-ish |
| 22:16.33 | dataw0lf | I bet synic would love em. |
| 22:17.24 | dataw0lf | (Kim Deal used to be in the Pixies) |
| 22:17.30 | Lone_Wanderer | (Who's Kim Deal?_) |
| 22:17.32 | Lone_Wanderer | -_ |
| 22:17.43 | dataw0lf | vocalist for the Breeders |
| 22:17.46 | Lone_Wanderer | k cool |
| 22:17.47 | dataw0lf | she was vocals / bassist for the Pixies |
| 22:17.52 | Lone_Wanderer | ahhh |
| 22:17.54 | dataw0lf | hottest bassist evar |
| 22:18.13 | dataw0lf | you should totally look into the Pixies, they rock the casbah. And then some. |
| 22:18.17 | thebigdog | pixies rock |
| 22:18.17 | Lone_Wanderer | The only thing I know about the Pixies is that they had a good bass line, because they mention it at the end of... that one movie from the 90's with Liv Tyler. |
| 22:18.51 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: Empire Records? |
| 22:18.55 | Lone_Wanderer | Yes. |
| 22:19.00 | Lone_Wanderer | Really Good Movie. |
| 22:19.06 | dataw0lf | yea, I like it. |
| 22:19.10 | dataw0lf | High Fidelity is better. |
| 22:19.25 | dataw0lf | thebigdog: true dat |
| 22:19.26 | Lone_Wanderer | I only saw part of it. |
| 22:19.45 | dataw0lf | High Fidelity is awesome |
| 22:19.48 | Lone_Wanderer | But John Cusack is a Film God. |
| 22:19.54 | dataw0lf | Jack Black? John Cusack? Can't go wrong. |
| 22:20.01 | dataw0lf | so true, LW |
| 22:20.05 | dataw0lf | I lubs John Cusack. |
| 22:20.21 | dataw0lf | let us burn one from end to end, and pass it to me my friend |
| 22:20.24 | Lone_Wanderer | Jack Black was in High Fidelity? |
| 22:20.34 | dataw0lf | if you don't like my fire, then don't come around, cuz I'm gonna burn one dooooown |
| 22:20.43 | dataw0lf | yessir |
| 22:20.52 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh wait, is High Fidelity the "There is no way your daughter likes 'I Just Called to Say I Love You.' Wait - is she in a coma?" |
| 22:21.00 | mindjuju | yup |
| 22:21.07 | Lone_Wanderer | XD |
| 22:21.11 | dataw0lf | :D |
| 22:21.44 | *** join/#uphpu bradym (n=bradym@bradym.agsci.usu.edu) |
| 22:21.51 | dataw0lf | my choice is what I choose to do, And if I'm causing no harm, it shouldn't bother you |
| 22:22.04 | dataw0lf | your choice is who you choose to be, and if you're causing no harm, then you're alright with me |
| 22:22.23 | dataw0lf | I just finished all my projects |
| 22:22.30 | dataw0lf | just in time for the Ohio State game! |
| 22:22.56 | dataw0lf | well, I'll be done as soon as Rackspace responds to my multiple emails |
| 22:24.20 | dataw0lf | Jack Johnson is a genius just because he knows exactly what chords his voice sounds good against |
| 22:24.53 | dataw0lf | if you look at his tabs, same theme, and he's got pretty much the best voice against those note combos |
| 22:28.30 | Lone_Wanderer | I will never understand why people choose to remain ignorant on certain issues. |
| 22:28.54 | bradym | people are lazy |
| 22:32.03 | dataw0lf | Repeat justification to fulfill whatever drives their life. |
| 22:32.09 | dataw0lf | Religion, or any sort of ideals. |
| 22:32.15 | dataw0lf | it's human nature. |
| 22:32.52 | dataw0lf | noone can remain completely impartial and practical |
| 22:32.57 | dataw0lf | PYTHON ROCKS! |
| 22:33.18 | bradym | that i can agree with, and i've just started learning it |
| 22:34.25 | dataw0lf | bradym: Trey is following up with the HR/recruiters in Foster City; it's a little chaotic due to whatsername on maternity leave. |
| 22:34.58 | Lone_Wanderer | http://www.theonion.com/content/node/55807 - Kansas Outlaws Practice of Evolution |
| 22:35.00 | bradym | cool - thanks for following up.. it's nice to have someone on the inside :) |
| 22:35.15 | *** join/#uphpu brasto (n=brasto@fw.oremut02.us.wh.verio.net) |
| 22:35.15 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v brasto] by ChanServ |
| 22:35.45 | dataw0lf | don't worry, they took a while to get to me after I interviewed over the phone, I was worried too. Course, it's the holiday season and they got the head HR woman on maternity leave, so I can only imagine. |
| 22:35.55 | brasto | Lone_Wanderer - you're the one i'm presenting to plug with, right? |
| 22:36.03 | swb | bradym applied for a job at dw's company? |
| 22:36.04 | Lone_Wanderer | I believe so yes. |
| 22:36.28 | dataw0lf | swb: yea, looks like he's in. |
| 22:36.29 | bradym | swb: sure did.. |
| 22:36.32 | swb | nice! |
| 22:36.43 | bradym | i'm crossing my fingers :) |
| 22:36.43 | dataw0lf | just trying to get him flown out to Foster City for the final round of interviews |
| 22:36.50 | swb | good luck!!! |
| 22:36.54 | bradym | thanks |
| 22:37.32 | dataw0lf | I heard some words from a friend on the phone, didn't sound so good, the doctor gave him two weeks to live, I'd give him more if I could |
| 22:37.41 | Lone_Wanderer | Nope. |
| 22:40.15 | brasto | i didn't either. |
| 22:40.34 | dataw0lf | what're you kids presenting on? |
| 22:40.39 | Lone_Wanderer | PHP basics. |
| 22:41.03 | Lone_Wanderer | Iteration, recursion, and abstraction. Which is really general programming basics, but we're using PHP to present them. |
| 22:41.26 | dataw0lf | iteration, be sure to include object iteration. |
| 22:41.55 | Lone_Wanderer | Okay. |
| 22:41.59 | brasto | atoponce, anything important beyond what Lone_Wanderer brought up that we should make note of. |
| 22:42.02 | dataw0lf | well all these times they come and go and alone don't seem so long, over ten years have gone by, we can't rewind, we're locked in time. |
| 22:42.10 | Lone_Wanderer | Which is what, iterating over objects, or iterating within an object? |
| 22:42.21 | dataw0lf | iterating over an object |
| 22:42.26 | dataw0lf | like a foreach on an object |
| 22:42.31 | Lone_Wanderer | okay |
| 22:42.38 | Lone_Wanderer | How do you do that? :p |
| 22:42.51 | atoponce | brasto: s/plug/oalug/ |
| 22:42.53 | atoponce | :) |
| 22:43.19 | Lone_Wanderer | acctually I think oalug is the Ogden Area Linux User's Group |
| 22:43.27 | atoponce | yup |
| 22:43.28 | brasto | foreach ($object AS $key -> $value) { |
| 22:43.44 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: Any visible properties will be operated on |
| 22:43.46 | Lone_Wanderer | function iterateVisible() { ? |
| 22:44.04 | dataw0lf | huh? |
| 22:44.08 | atoponce | hmmm. i wouldn't cover recursion or abstraction |
| 22:44.13 | Lone_Wanderer | in PHP 4 and PHP 5 if you don't declare iterateVisible? |
| 22:44.21 | atoponce | that might me a bit too much for the basics of the meet |
| 22:44.47 | Lone_Wanderer | Maybe it's not iterateVisible |
| 22:44.47 | dataw0lf | no |
| 22:44.47 | dataw0lf | you can do a class SomeIterator extends Iterator |
| 22:44.47 | Lone_Wanderer | But there's a magic function in php 5 that you can use to control iteration |
| 22:45.20 | dataw0lf | well there's a bunch of built-in methods for iteration in the Iteration object |
| 22:45.29 | dataw0lf | rewind, current, next, etcv |
| 22:45.32 | dataw0lf | s/etcv/etc |
| 22:45.36 | Lone_Wanderer | hmm... maybe there isn't a magic function |
| 22:45.42 | Lone_Wanderer | I thought it was like __iterate() or something |
| 22:45.42 | dataw0lf | maybe in 4 |
| 22:46.40 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh look, there it is. |
| 22:46.42 | Lone_Wanderer | http://us2.php.net/manual/en/language.oop5.iterations.php |
| 22:47.32 | Lone_Wanderer | and it's "implements Iterator", not "extends Iterator" |
| 22:49.46 | *** join/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 22:49.46 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o Utah_Dave] by ChanServ |
| 22:51.37 | Lone_Wanderer | atoponce: imho, recursion is a concept which is fundamental to programming |
| 22:52.10 | bradym | definitely |
| 22:52.23 | atoponce | i agree. i ❤ recursion, but is it a beginning topic |
| 22:52.36 | atoponce | Lone_Wanderer: brasto: also, you have 3 hours to present, rather than 2 |
| 22:52.41 | Lone_Wanderer | okay |
| 22:52.46 | atoponce | we are going 3 and 1 for the meet |
| 22:52.50 | Lone_Wanderer | I think it can be taught to beginners easily |
| 22:52.54 | Lone_Wanderer | if you do it the right way |
| 22:52.57 | atoponce | so, if you want to do 1.5 a piece, or whatever, is cool |
| 22:53.17 | Lone_Wanderer | brb for real now |
| 22:54.25 | brasto | atoponce, what's the expected attendance? |
| 22:54.58 | atoponce | 20-30 |
| 22:54.58 | brasto | and is it one big 3 hour presentation, or 3 hours of presenting to several groups of people? |
| 22:55.06 | atoponce | 1 big presentation |
| 22:57.10 | brasto | ok, is it a classroom/instructor style, or can it be disussion style? Or perhaps a combination of the 2? |
| 23:02.19 | Lone_Wanderer | back |
| 23:03.08 | Lone_Wanderer | I think it's supposed to be discussion style, where we pause occasionally and have the attendees do exercises to practice the things being taught. |
| 23:04.13 | bradym | in the web development workshops i've taught that format has worked the best |
| 23:05.10 | brasto | cool, that works best for me - as a student and when teaching. |
| 23:05.36 | atoponce | yeah. discussion style would be best |
| 23:05.46 | brasto | Lone_Wanderer, do you use AIM, MIM, YIM, or ICQ? |
| 23:05.56 | Lone_Wanderer | AIM - Oberon4278 |
| 23:06.06 | Lone_Wanderer | I'll have to add you. |
| 23:06.22 | brasto | ok, my AIM is hplsbyufan |
| 23:06.45 | Lone_Wanderer | Harry Potter ls BYU Fan? |
| 23:06.49 | Lone_Wanderer | What's the LS for? :p |
| 23:06.55 | dataw0lf | hopeless.. ? |
| 23:07.02 | dataw0lf | helpless, since BYU sucks? |
| 23:07.02 | Lone_Wanderer | ahhhh |
| 23:07.03 | dataw0lf | har har |
| 23:07.07 | brasto | hopless - that part refers to me |
| 23:07.47 | brasto | BYU is awesome, I'm the hopeless one... actually there's a short story behind that screen name... |
| 23:09.05 | brasto | Shortly after I graduated, I had my wife and 2 kids, and I was feeling pretty hopeless on how to provide for my family. i was signing up for AIM at the moment of hopelessness, and every screen name didn't work... so, i finally put in "hplsbyufan", and it worked |
| 23:09.07 | brasto | the end |
| 23:09.11 | brasto | good story? |
| 23:09.15 | brasto | lol |
| 23:19.17 | dataw0lf | heh |
| 23:19.22 | dataw0lf | the openings left by that statement... |
| 23:19.32 | dataw0lf | anyways, BYU sucks, tis all about the Big Ten sir. |
| 23:19.39 | dataw0lf | goooooo Ohio State! |
| 23:19.43 | Lone_Wanderer | U of MN! |
| 23:19.44 | herlo | brasto: you should also say that to the LDS church |
| 23:19.49 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: Holla! |
| 23:20.05 | dataw0lf | the LDS church and BYU are one and the same, I thought. |
| 23:20.07 | Lone_Wanderer | That was such a good school. I never should have left :'( |
| 23:20.18 | Lone_Wanderer | No, they're different entities, though the church does own the school. |
| 23:20.24 | brasto | herlo, i'd love to see the church go open source. |
| 23:20.41 | herlo | brasto: probably won't happen |
| 23:20.46 | bradym | i doubt it |
| 23:21.10 | brasto | it just makes sense - non-profit church using non-profit software... |
| 23:21.13 | dataw0lf | seems like a fairly good school |
| 23:21.16 | bradym | I bet the church will move some stuff to open source, but i doubt it would ever go all open-source |
| 23:21.27 | dataw0lf | cept for the rules imposed, but the people who're going probably don't mind, so who cares. |
| 23:21.51 | herlo | dataw0lf: uh huh |
| 23:22.08 | brasto | yes, unfortunately it's way too embeded in MS proprietary |
| 23:22.11 | wps | anyone know of any job openings for an ex-wordperfect/novell software engineer? |
| 23:22.32 | wps | my father has an incredible resumé and is available |
| 23:23.20 | dataw0lf | I know we're looking for Java engineers, if that's his cup o tea. |
| 23:23.39 | wps | he know some java, but I don't think it's his forté |
| 23:23.43 | brasto | wps, is your dad in utah valley? |
| 23:23.46 | wps | yes |
| 23:23.49 | wps | http://halshearer.com |
| 23:24.10 | dataw0lf | wps: he must abhor that you're a designer. Unless you work on projects together. |
| 23:24.25 | wps | we've never worked on any projects, actually |
| 23:24.30 | wps | (together) |
| 23:24.31 | dataw0lf | you should, that'd be sweet. |
| 23:24.43 | dataw0lf | I wish my Dad designed, so I could use and abuse him. |
| 23:24.57 | wps | yeah |
| 23:27.46 | dataw0lf | wps: wow, he does have a nice resume |
| 23:27.49 | dataw0lf | nice-looking too |
| 23:28.21 | dataw0lf | 1988-2005 with Novell, that's one heckuva stretch |
| 23:28.25 | _psychic_ | no kidding |
| 23:28.39 | herlo | nobody stays at Novell THAT long!! |
| 23:28.40 | wps | yeah |
| 23:28.51 | wps | and then the hosers stab you in the back with a drop-kick to the curb |
| 23:29.02 | dataw0lf | yea, screw modern Novell. |
| 23:29.09 | dataw0lf | they just up and fired him? |
| 23:29.13 | dataw0lf | that's such BS |
| 23:29.16 | wps | pretty much |
| 23:29.19 | wps | he was old so they canned him |
| 23:29.27 | dataw0lf | what a bunch of idiots. |
| 23:29.41 | Black_Chaos | hey they signed with MS what do you expect? |
| 23:29.42 | wps | why keep an old guy around that you have to pay a lot when you can hire a young'un for peanuts |
| 23:29.48 | _psychic_ | ~lart Novell |
| 23:30.06 | _psychic_ | What does Novell really *do* anymore? |
| 23:30.09 | wps | screwed him over pretty bad |
| 23:30.11 | wps | had to sell his house |
| 23:30.29 | dataw0lf | dang, dude |
| 23:30.49 | dataw0lf | Like I said, Java developers over here, and the pay is pretty premium, but he'd probably have to move |
| 23:30.55 | _psychic_ | http://www.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2007-01-06-hogzilla_x.htm?csp=34 |
| 23:31.15 | *** join/#uphpu beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 23:31.16 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v beandog] by ChanServ |
| 23:31.23 | dataw0lf | http://www.cytiva.com/qnst/cojobs_qnst.asp |
| 23:31.46 | dataw0lf | there is our job listings wps, see if he's interested in any of that, and if he is, I can put in a good word or two |
| 23:31.48 | wps | holy crud (referring to the hog) |
| 23:31.58 | wps | cool |
| 23:32.01 | wps | thanks, dataw0lf |
| 23:32.02 | wps | I'll look |
| 23:32.52 | dataw0lf | alright, give him my condolences, and tell him I'll mock Novell even more in his honor. |
| 23:33.58 | Lone_Wanderer | That's so wrong. |
| 23:34.15 | Lone_Wanderer | "Thanks for the loyalty. In exchange, we give you PINK SLIPS!" |
| 23:34.15 | dataw0lf | dude, if I ran into a pig like that, I think I'd pee my pants. |
| 23:34.30 | _psychic_ | I just wonder what he shot it with. |
| 23:35.03 | dataw0lf | 30.06 prolly |
| 23:35.11 | Lone_Wanderer | I bet it was mean as heck, too. |
| 23:35.14 | dataw0lf | maybe a mini-14, that's what I'd shoot it with |
| 23:35.22 | _psychic_ | RPG |
| 23:35.30 | _psychic_ | :) |
| 23:35.56 | dataw0lf | yea, that's what I meant LW |
| 23:36.17 | bradym | "honey where's my RPG? Hogzilla's wandering around on our property again" |
| 23:36.32 | dataw0lf | I'd like to know what he shot it with too |
| 23:36.38 | dataw0lf | and whether it was running or not when he shot it |
| 23:36.40 | Lone_Wanderer | I'd save any RPG's I've got for overthrowing the guv'mint |
| 23:36.42 | dataw0lf | and what range he shot it at |
| 23:36.49 | _psychic_ | And how many times |
| 23:37.06 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: that's what snide comments and debate is for, sir!~ |
| 23:37.08 | dataw0lf | plus, tanks. |
| 23:37.21 | Lone_Wanderer | snide comments and debate are for overthrowing guv'mints? |
| 23:37.22 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: no kiddin |
| 23:37.27 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: and, tanks. |
| 23:37.37 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh, right. And jets. |
| 23:37.40 | dataw0lf | I asked Santa for a tank for christmas |
| 23:37.46 | dataw0lf | he must not've heard me |
| 23:37.47 | Lone_Wanderer | Did you get one? |
| 23:37.49 | _psychic_ | dude that's the older pic of the smaller hog |
| 23:37.50 | Lone_Wanderer | Awww |
| 23:37.53 | dataw0lf | I know |
| 23:37.55 | Lone_Wanderer | ~comfort dataw0lf |
| 23:37.56 | jbot | There, there, dataw0lf. It's OK. I'm here for you. |
| 23:37.59 | dataw0lf | I'd even take a lightweight tank, like a Bradley |
| 23:38.09 | _psychic_ | http://www.thehawaiichannel.com/news/10682932/detail.html |
| 23:38.10 | dataw0lf | course, I'd want an avenger system on it, but, hey, I'm not too particular |
| 23:38.16 | _psychic_ | dude he's on crutches! |
| 23:38.21 | Lone_Wanderer | What's an Avenger system? |
| 23:38.33 | _psychic_ | I wonder if the crutches were before or after the hog attack. |
| 23:38.35 | dataw0lf | basically, Stingers. |
| 23:38.41 | Lone_Wanderer | Is that the thing that automatically compensates for barrel sloop, or is it cooler? |
| 23:38.46 | dataw0lf | but mounted in launching brackets and controlled by a system inside a vehicle |
| 23:38.49 | dataw0lf | slightly improved of course |
| 23:39.13 | dataw0lf | it's basically just an array of Stinger missiles, really |
| 23:39.26 | dataw0lf | I fired a shoulder mounted Stinger at White Sands during training |
| 23:39.33 | dataw0lf | awesomest thing ever |
| 23:39.39 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 23:39.41 | Lone_Wanderer | big boom? |
| 23:39.53 | Lone_Wanderer | heh, "the DNR urges that you call wildlife experts to remove the animals." |
| 23:39.54 | dataw0lf | course, I missed the target, but it was still awesome |
| 23:40.12 | dataw0lf | the backblast is pretty impressive |
| 23:40.12 | Lone_Wanderer | Hey, that's what training is for. |
| 23:40.22 | dataw0lf | not like the AT-4's little poof |
| 23:40.30 | Lone_Wanderer | AT = Anti-Tank? |
| 23:40.33 | dataw0lf | yea |
| 23:40.35 | Lone_Wanderer | What are Stinger missiles for? |
| 23:40.42 | dataw0lf | low flying aircraft |
| 23:40.44 | dataw0lf | usually choppers |
| 23:40.46 | Lone_Wanderer | sexy |
| 23:40.51 | Lone_Wanderer | choppers++ |
| 23:41.15 | dataw0lf | yea, we sold a bunch to the Afghans to defeat the Soviets, then got a couple apaches and blackhawks shot down by our own weapons when I got deployed over there! |
| 23:41.18 | dataw0lf | Democracy at work |
| 23:41.31 | dataw0lf | an at-4 is even more awesome |
| 23:41.57 | Lone_Wanderer | I think I like AT-4's better because they don't kill my vehicle of choice. |
| 23:41.59 | dataw0lf | very light shoulder mounted launcher that fires a round, that will melt through a foot of steel, then deposits an explosive inside whatever vehicle you fire it at |
| 23:42.10 | dataw0lf | nice, clean kill |
| 23:42.33 | Lone_Wanderer | ohhh |
| 23:42.33 | dataw0lf | course, 'very light' doesn't really matter when you're humping it through baghdad and it keeps banging into your face whenever you make a turn |
| 23:42.38 | dataw0lf | but the stinger is heavy as hell |
| 23:42.42 | Lone_Wanderer | umm |
| 23:42.47 | dataw0lf | (we had to run with mock stingers in pathfinder training) |
| 23:42.52 | Lone_Wanderer | wait - why would you carry an anti-tank missile through Baghdad? |
| 23:43.08 | dataw0lf | to hit the pickup trucks that those bastards were trying to come at us with |
| 23:43.11 | dataw0lf | works just as well |
| 23:43.12 | Lone_Wanderer | I thought only the 'merkans had tanks by the time you got there? |
| 23:43.15 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh |
| 23:43.22 | dataw0lf | dude |
| 23:43.27 | dataw0lf | I was there before anyone else |
| 23:43.29 | dataw0lf | I saw one tank |
| 23:43.30 | Lone_Wanderer | oh |
| 23:43.36 | Lone_Wanderer | how long did it last after you saw it? |
| 23:43.44 | dataw0lf | and it got with two .50 cals and a little bird minigun and exploded into dust |
| 23:43.55 | dataw0lf | got hit* |
| 23:44.01 | dataw0lf | seriously |
| 23:44.01 | dataw0lf | dust |
| 23:44.02 | Lone_Wanderer | So you helped take Baghdad? |
| 23:44.06 | dataw0lf | oh yea |
| 23:44.17 | dataw0lf | I was in Incirlik three weeks before the invasion |
| 23:44.21 | Lone_Wanderer | How big of a fight did they put up? |
| 23:44.29 | dataw0lf | pfft |
| 23:44.35 | Lone_Wanderer | That's what I thought. |
| 23:44.35 | dataw0lf | holding Iraq after the invasion was much harder |
| 23:44.51 | dataw0lf | did you know that Saddam's officers took all their white clothing so they couldn't surrender to us? |
| 23:44.53 | dataw0lf | course, they still did |
| 23:44.57 | Lone_Wanderer | wow |
| 23:45.09 | Lone_Wanderer | what's the protocol for dealing with surrendering troops? |
| 23:45.22 | dataw0lf | Baghdad was ours as soon as we entered it, don't believe the hype about battles during the actual invasion |
| 23:45.29 | dataw0lf | the protocol? |
| 23:45.45 | dataw0lf | well, if you're taking incoming fire still, the unofficial protocol is to take them out |
| 23:45.55 | Lone_Wanderer | I mean, I'm assuming you don't just put down your guns and pull out the beer if they're waving a white flag. |
| 23:45.58 | dataw0lf | course, the Geneva Conventions are a bit more friendly. |
| 23:46.10 | dataw0lf | But, we violated so many rules over there it's unbelievable. |
| 23:46.13 | dataw0lf | not that they weren't, though |
| 23:46.33 | dataw0lf | you're not supposed to fire a .50 cal at personnel, but if you got a bunch of people running at you, it's kind of instinctual. |
| 23:46.37 | Lone_Wanderer | not that they weren't violating rules? |
| 23:46.46 | dataw0lf | right |
| 23:46.49 | Lone_Wanderer | not supposed to according to whom? |
| 23:46.55 | dataw0lf | the Geneva Conventions |
| 23:46.59 | dataw0lf | world wide rules for war. |
| 23:47.13 | Lone_Wanderer | The Geneva Convention dictates the size of ammunition you can use to fire at personnel? |
| 23:47.27 | dataw0lf | you get a card with RoE on it and various statements in Arabic to say to surrendering troops |
| 23:47.33 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: oh yea. |
| 23:47.38 | Lone_Wanderer | what's RoE? |
| 23:47.42 | dataw0lf | Rules of Engagement |
| 23:47.44 | Lone_Wanderer | oh, right |
| 23:47.53 | dataw0lf | the rules of engagement got way worse after the invasion though |
| 23:48.04 | dataw0lf | eventually, our officers were like 'dude, if you get fired at, kill everyone' |
| 23:48.04 | Lone_Wanderer | So what's the largest shell you can fire at human beings? |
| 23:48.12 | dataw0lf | small arms |
| 23:48.17 | Lone_Wanderer | And what's the rationalle behind that rule? It seems sillier than, say, "don't torture people" |
| 23:48.23 | dataw0lf | unrepeating .45 |
| 23:48.39 | dataw0lf | well, if you saw what a .50 did to a person, you may agree. |
| 23:49.19 | Lone_Wanderer | I've heard, but still, you're supposed to go "Oh geez we've only got these rounds that are too big, I guess we just get to die"? |
| 23:52.13 | dataw0lf | sure |
| 23:52.16 | dataw0lf | RoE buddy |
| 23:52.31 | dataw0lf | course, in real life, that's not the way it happens. |
| 23:52.42 | Lone_Wanderer | That's ridiculous. |
| 23:53.09 | dataw0lf | yea, Afghanistan was the worst for RoE. Or Germany right after we invaded Iraq, from what I hear. |
| 23:53.20 | Lone_Wanderer | Germany? |
| 23:53.21 | dataw0lf | they were throwing molotov cocktails at our base gates, couldn't do anything. |
| 23:53.24 | Lone_Wanderer | oh |
| 23:53.39 | dataw0lf | Afghan was bad though, at the beginning. |
| 23:53.45 | Lone_Wanderer | well, presumably you could stand back from the gates and shoot anyone who crosses the perimiter |
| 23:54.01 | dataw0lf | On patrols, you had no idea whom to shoot until you waltzed into an ambush |
| 23:54.06 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: Ha. I wish. |
| 23:54.22 | Lone_Wanderer | or at least tazer them soundly. killing a German citizen in Germany, even during a riot, probably would be a bad idea. |
| 23:54.26 | dataw0lf | they storm the gates, in a friendly country, you retreat to a defensible position. |
| 23:55.15 | Lone_Wanderer | Well it's an embassy, I'm assuming when they lock it down it's hard to get in without some serious work. |
| 23:55.28 | dataw0lf | nah, it's not an embassy, it's a kaserne, a base |
| 23:55.31 | Lone_Wanderer | oh |
| 23:55.34 | dataw0lf | still property of the German government. |
| 23:55.37 | Lone_Wanderer | ahhh |
| 23:55.52 | Lone_Wanderer | that changes things then. but bases are secure too innit? |
| 23:55.55 | dataw0lf | still, even at an embassy in a friendly country, I truly doubt RoE would have any deadly force rules. |
| 23:56.53 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: After the invasion of Iraq, our bases were guarded by either national guard or nationals |
| 23:57.01 | Lone_Wanderer | by German nationals? |
| 23:57.05 | dataw0lf | yea, contractors. |
| 23:57.12 | Lone_Wanderer | that makes sense |
| 23:57.19 | dataw0lf | not too secure either way. |
| 23:57.35 | Lone_Wanderer | well, at least they'd be dealing with people from their own country |
| 23:57.53 | Lone_Wanderer | if there was an incident it'd be between Germans instead of international |
| 23:58.07 | dataw0lf | when we got back from Iraq we had some drunk german nationals ram our gate with their car, a couple shots were fired toward the tires by our guards, huge fuss about it |
| 23:58.42 | Lone_Wanderer | because they opened fire on civilians? |
| 23:58.42 | dataw0lf | personally, I'm just glad I wasn't there, because after being back from Iraq, I would've lit em up |
| 23:58.42 | dataw0lf | yea |
| 23:58.49 | Lone_Wanderer | probably got blown way out of proportion by the tabloids |
| 23:58.54 | dataw0lf | yea, it did |
| 23:59.25 | dataw0lf | two potshots at the rear wheels |
| 23:59.28 | dataw0lf | by pathfinders |
| 23:59.34 | dataw0lf | excellent shots |
| 23:59.40 | dataw0lf | ;) |
| 23:59.40 | Lone_Wanderer | :) |
