| 00:00.04 | dataw0lf | so, based on scientific and available data, you've made a decision. |
| 00:00.15 | dataw0lf | That the Holocaust did happen. And anyone else who thinks otherwise is, well, nuts. |
| 00:00.21 | dataw0lf | see, that's how I feel :) |
| 00:00.57 | thebigdog | i studied this on in college alot Streptococcus pneumoniae |
| 00:01.09 | dataw0lf | http://anthro.palomar.edu/evolve/evolve_3.htm |
| 00:01.42 | _psychic_ | Most of the infallibility of science just comes from people changing the working model, too. They were never wrong, they just didn't see the whole real picture. |
| 00:01.54 | thebigdog | if you have kids you have evolution |
| 00:02.05 | olds | I don't |
| 00:02.07 | olds | therefore |
| 00:02.11 | olds | evolution !exist |
| 00:02.14 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 00:02.28 | olds | the end |
| 00:02.35 | thebigdog | evolution has passed olds by |
| 00:02.35 | dataw0lf | thebigdog: I dunno, I've seen some of your kids... |
| 00:02.36 | dataw0lf | ;-) |
| 00:02.45 | olds | yea, it's true |
| 00:02.45 | thebigdog | dude my kids rock... |
| 00:02.55 | thebigdog | momma's good looks and daddy's money |
| 00:03.05 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 00:03.07 | thebigdog | so i got my son a guitar and a train set |
| 00:03.16 | dataw0lf | you'd think momma's good looks would take off with daddy's money |
| 00:03.22 | thebigdog | i spent 4 hours setting up train set |
| 00:03.29 | thebigdog | needless to say he never touched it |
| 00:03.29 | dataw0lf | and he didn't play with it? |
| 00:03.32 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 00:03.45 | thebigdog | nope he rocked out on his guitar |
| 00:03.49 | _psychic_ | thebigdog: what kind of guitar? |
| 00:03.50 | thebigdog | cracked me up |
| 00:04.11 | thebigdog | oh just a 6 string kids tyco...with mini amp |
| 00:04.29 | thebigdog | he is just 2 yrs old...strat is waiting for when he is older |
| 00:04.59 | thebigdog | i do have a new strat for him when he gets older...but not now |
| 00:05.08 | _psychic_ | I got my kids guitars too |
| 00:05.16 | thebigdog | he rocked out on christmas though...made sure i got him a pick too |
| 00:05.18 | _psychic_ | acoustic ones though.. walmart cheapies |
| 00:05.28 | _psychic_ | they loved em too |
| 00:05.38 | thebigdog | yeah use and abuse...if you can play and want too...pops will get the real thing |
| 00:06.12 | dataw0lf | yea, just pick up cheapies til they've gone after it for about a year or so, at least |
| 00:06.18 | thebigdog | i got a ukulele that he has beat up |
| 00:06.30 | _psychic_ | ukes are fun too |
| 00:06.34 | dataw0lf | shoot, I still have my old practice bass to bang around with |
| 00:06.47 | thebigdog | but 2 yrs old and he cracks me up...he gets into the zakk wylde stance and rocks |
| 00:06.49 | dataw0lf | I've been playing a lot more lately, which is nice. |
| 00:07.20 | dataw0lf | man. |
| 00:07.36 | dataw0lf | can someone give me the benefits of using database logging, I mean really. |
| 00:07.49 | thebigdog | i hope he practices everyday and rocks...makes money and takes dad all around the world |
| 00:07.56 | dataw0lf | that'd be perfect for SQLite. |
| 00:08.23 | thebigdog | yeah...i love database loggin...i added it just hte other day for loggin |
| 00:08.32 | thebigdog | then a cronjob to send out daily notices |
| 00:09.20 | dataw0lf | I don't believe in it. |
| 00:09.27 | dataw0lf | not if you're using MySQL, Postgres, etc |
| 00:09.45 | *** join/#uphpu jsmith (n=jsmith@000-151-792.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 00:09.45 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v jsmith] by ChanServ |
| 00:09.46 | dataw0lf | the overhead has gotta be pretty bad if the site grows to any extent. |
| 00:10.07 | fungus | binary logs are required for replication on MySQL. |
| 00:10.58 | thebigdog | dataw0lf, depends on requirements...syslog is my favorite...however, that is not always feasible to use |
| 00:11.02 | fungus | I can see some other benefits of logging, but in general, replication is the only reason I care about. |
| 00:11.20 | dataw0lf | the daemon doing binary logs for data changing is one thing, I'm talking about a web app logging via RDBMS fungus |
| 00:11.34 | thebigdog | severe error loggin is ok with me |
| 00:11.44 | dataw0lf | thebigdog: I dig syslog, o' course. |
| 00:11.52 | fungus | oh. |
| 00:12.00 | swb | _psychic_: SUPHPUR.. the R because it sounds like super |
| 00:12.13 | thebigdog | we tried using oracle for an application with 70k sim users and we had to move to syslog for it |
| 00:12.19 | dataw0lf | I bet. |
| 00:12.22 | _psychic_ | I renamed it to SUPHPU-R(dw) for clarity and ease of use. |
| 00:12.42 | fungus | yeah, heavy logging to a database doesn't sound good at all. |
| 00:12.56 | dataw0lf | it just seems like one of those 'omgz I learned SQL I'm going to use it for EVARYTHING!1!ONE!' that's common in newbie PHP programmers |
| 00:12.59 | thebigdog | but anything finer than error loggin in production is a no-no in my case |
| 00:13.37 | thebigdog | yeah i wrote an article about when to use database for web development...many people told me i was stupid |
| 00:13.43 | thebigdog | guess im stupid |
| 00:13.53 | dataw0lf | no, you just have *gasp* experience |
| 00:14.05 | thebigdog | cause they want everything in database |
| 00:14.06 | fungus | although the archive storage engine could be useful for some logging applications. |
| 00:14.28 | dataw0lf | fungus: archive storage engine? |
| 00:14.38 | fungus | http://dev.mysql.com/tech-resources/articles/storage-engine.html |
| 00:15.02 | fungus | MySQL 5. introduced it. essentially a fast write, slow read compressed table. |
| 00:15.16 | dataw0lf | holy crikey, this is EXACTLY what we need. |
| 00:15.28 | olds | a guy here used the memory engine type |
| 00:15.34 | olds | for logging bandwidth on apache |
| 00:16.30 | dataw0lf | I just took over for a bunch of MySQL using sites here, and the team assigned to them has been complaining about our data growth rate, so I told them to give me some possible solutions by last Friday |
| 00:16.45 | olds | you should buy this book dataw0lf |
| 00:16.47 | olds | Pro Mysql |
| 00:16.50 | olds | it's really helpful |
| 00:17.01 | thebigdog | or just use tablespace in pgsql |
| 00:17.02 | olds | and Mysql Database Design and Optimization |
| 00:17.40 | dataw0lf | thebigdog: yea, we're not migrating those sites to pg, however. |
| 00:17.46 | dataw0lf | olds: danke, I'll look into em. |
| 00:18.02 | dataw0lf | thebigdog: I really wish we were, though. |
| 00:18.15 | thebigdog | yeah that would be cool |
| 00:18.27 | dataw0lf | most of my problems would be gone. |
| 00:18.31 | thebigdog | mysql does have its place...just not in my tool box |
| 00:18.32 | dataw0lf | db problems that is |
| 00:18.33 | thebigdog | :) |
| 00:18.40 | dataw0lf | hehe, no kidding, I've been forced to use it |
| 00:19.20 | thebigdog | i cant see how its been around with views for so long... |
| 00:19.27 | thebigdog | s/with/without |
| 00:19.53 | fungus | Because it was simple and fast. |
| 00:20.41 | jsmith | fungus: And lacked referential integrity ;-) |
| 00:20.47 | thebigdog | lol |
| 00:20.51 | jsmith | There's a reason it's so fast. |
| 00:21.07 | fungus | yup, but it is a great intermediate step between BDB and PG/Oracle |
| 00:21.13 | thebigdog | yeah without refint you dont have much...but then is that a database? |
| 00:21.39 | jsmith | thebigdog: Well, you'd call Access a database, right? Oh wait -- Access has foreign keys.... |
| 00:21.50 | thebigdog | out |
| 00:21.52 | thebigdog | ouch |
| 00:22.11 | atoponce | ~flame jsmith |
| 00:22.13 | jbot | jsmith, YOU SUCK. And you know it. |
| 00:22.16 | fungus | jsmith: i agree, but MySQL is good as an intermediate database. |
| 00:22.21 | dataw0lf | jsmith: ROL |
| 00:22.39 | dataw0lf | Personally, most of the stuff I've seen done with MySQL, could be accomplished with SQLite |
| 00:22.51 | thebigdog | php is good as an intermediate language |
| 00:22.53 | dataw0lf | and the stuff that's done in MySQL and shouldn't be, well, that's what PG is for. |
| 00:22.57 | fungus | and SQLite is a great DB too. |
| 00:23.04 | dataw0lf | chu dat |
| 00:23.50 | thebigdog | derby is good too |
| 00:23.50 | dataw0lf | never tried Derby. |
| 00:24.08 | thebigdog | its pretty nice and light weight |
| 00:24.23 | jsmith | fungus: No it's not... it tells you it's doing a transaction, when it's not! |
| 00:24.23 | dataw0lf | Apache project, right? |
| 00:24.36 | thebigdog | y |
| 00:24.39 | olds | mysql has views |
| 00:24.41 | jsmith | fungus: What kind of database would lull you into that type of false security |
| 00:24.54 | dataw0lf | olds: MySQL just got views |
| 00:24.55 | jsmith | s/security/security?/ |
| 00:25.05 | olds | ok |
| 00:25.13 | thebigdog | olds, yes with the new version |
| 00:25.13 | fungus | It only tells you it does transactions to be compatible with SQL standards |
| 00:25.29 | olds | right, which we're running :) |
| 00:26.41 | fungus | Derby does sound cool. I'll have to try it someday |
| 00:26.43 | jsmith | fungus: Right... so does the SQL standard say that the database has to support transactions, or just that it has to *say* that it supports them. |
| 00:27.12 | fungus | are you saying that MySQL has *no* place anywhere? |
| 00:27.50 | jsmith | Nope. |
| 00:28.01 | jsmith | All I'm saying it's that it's often used in situations where it isn't ideal. |
| 00:28.17 | dataw0lf | fungus: I'm saying it's overused and many, many times people start using it on a project that outgrows MySQL very quickly. |
| 00:28.21 | fungus | ok, that's my only point. It isn't the best, but it is a good solution for some, if not many, situations. |
| 00:28.24 | jsmith | I've used MySQL to manage hundreds of terabytes of data... I'm not just talking out my butt. |
| 00:28.41 | olds | I, on the other hand, am talking out of my butt |
| 00:28.47 | dataw0lf | pics plz |
| 00:29.11 | thebigdog | drip has that problem too |
| 00:29.51 | fungus | Yes there is a big fanboism around MySQL that thinks it will rule everything, but that's not me. I just defend it's good points. |
| 00:30.34 | *** join/#uphpu smoke (n=janix60@70.103.72.146) |
| 00:30.49 | dataw0lf | I think that there's an overestimation of MySQL performance that's unwise. |
| 00:32.14 | fungus | I'm reading the Getting Started doc on Derby. It doesn't sound so hot anymore... at least not so hot for non-java projects. |
| 00:32.28 | swb | dataw0lf: compared to PG? (which is postgres, right?) |
| 00:32.31 | thebigdog | it has bindings for others |
| 00:32.50 | _psychic_ | gnite gents |
| 00:32.54 | fungus | ok, I'll keep looking |
| 00:33.02 | swb | nite _psychic_! |
| 00:33.16 | thebigdog | http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/db2/library/techarticle/dm-0409casey/ |
| 00:34.15 | thebigdog | cool thing with derby is that you can bundle it with your application |
| 00:34.15 | dataw0lf | swb: Well, in comparison with general database operations. personally, I think MySQL is overkill in many situations where it's used (in cases where I'd use SQLite - like blogs and stuff), and then it's also used in situations that quickly outgrow MySQL's capacity to handle the data and maintain integrity |
| 00:34.42 | fungus | SQLite is public domain, so it is bundleable too. |
| 00:35.23 | fungus | Derby doesn't look quite a clean and simple as SQLite. |
| 00:36.00 | swb | huh, I should probably be using SQLite |
| 00:36.38 | fungus | SQLite is awesome. Especially for small, read heavy, apps. |
| 00:37.18 | dataw0lf | true dat |
| 00:37.18 | mindjuju | you still around dataw0lf? |
| 00:37.19 | dataw0lf | yessir |
| 00:37.34 | mindjuju | k, didn't want you to think i just left your argument hanging |
| 00:38.06 | mindjuju | i've noticed that when we talk, especially about this topic, definitions as to what terms mean is subjective to the debater |
| 00:38.22 | mindjuju | especially in the use of the terms theory and fact |
| 00:38.56 | fungus | The scientific method clearly defines the definitions for those. |
| 00:38.56 | mindjuju | soooo..., i've gone back to research presices defs for the terms to allow our debate to be more productive |
| 00:38.58 | dataw0lf | well, a theory is meant to explain facts. |
| 00:39.06 | dataw0lf | facts are observable conditions in an environment. |
| 00:39.12 | dataw0lf | Evolution meets both criteria. |
| 00:39.51 | dataw0lf | There is a theory of evolution which is meant to explain the fact that evolution occurs. |
| 00:40.08 | mindjuju | yes, i see that now |
| 00:40.23 | mindjuju | though, for some reason, I remembered it differently from schooling |
| 00:40.43 | dataw0lf | heh, that's why Americans have one of the lowest rates of any country on 'believing' in evolution. |
| 00:41.00 | fungus | hypothesis -> experimentation -> theory -> consensus -> fact |
| 00:41.02 | mindjuju | so, let me read the defs as provided by wiki and coorborated by other established dictionaries, and then we can proceed |
| 00:41.20 | mindjuju | coolio? |
| 00:41.21 | dataw0lf | ok, sir, however, do you have any response to my antibiotic argument? |
| 00:41.48 | mindjuju | i'm a big fan of this argument, but in a slightly different respect |
| 00:41.51 | fungus | s/fact/law/ |
| 00:41.53 | mindjuju | so, it's hard for me to argue |
| 00:42.07 | mindjuju | i argue it from the point of the overmedication of the populous being bad |
| 00:42.10 | dataw0lf | alright, well, how about we tackle the real reason why you're arguing this. |
| 00:42.27 | mindjuju | allow the human immune system to become stronger and that is the better way |
| 00:42.28 | dataw0lf | specifically, that the theory of evolution hypothesizes that our ancient ancestors were primates of a lower form. |
| 00:42.55 | dataw0lf | and I'll destroy you with the gene argument. |
| 00:43.09 | dataw0lf | first, however, I'm going to drink this beer, and have a cigarette. |
| 00:44.54 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: It still supports evolution, however. Unless you're talking about some sort of divine or other sort of other vague 'rule' where supplanting the 'created' bodies natural system with a foreign system is 'bad', in some moral or theological sense of the word |
| 00:45.08 | mindjuju | the argument that humans evolved from ape, or some lower form similar to ape is one that is evolving (by the nature of it being a theory) |
| 00:45.20 | mindjuju | i'm just not sure we should be teaching theory |
| 00:45.51 | dataw0lf | well, there are a lot of 'theories' that are taught, that have a huge scientific consensus to back them. |
| 00:46.00 | mindjuju | v true |
| 00:46.13 | thebigdog | a good example is math |
| 00:46.16 | dataw0lf | and arguing that along with evolution we should also teach creationism is ridiculous. Creationism is a form of faith, which has no place in public schools. |
| 00:46.16 | mindjuju | some get pulled and refined and then reinserted into the mainstream |
| 00:47.07 | dataw0lf | due to the fact that there's not really any other scientific theory to explain the various facts we've collected, what would you like taught? |
| 00:47.18 | mindjuju | fact |
| 00:47.25 | mindjuju | gravity exists and works in this way |
| 00:47.34 | mindjuju | terminal velocity is the result of gravity |
| 00:47.38 | dataw0lf | ok, so how about this |
| 00:47.45 | dataw0lf | we present students with all the facts of evolution |
| 00:47.49 | dataw0lf | and so, so many exist |
| 00:48.05 | dataw0lf | and don't give them the scientific agreed upon theory up til now to pull them together? |
| 00:48.48 | mindjuju | see, here we run into def issues again |
| 00:49.03 | mindjuju | "facts of evolution" |
| 00:49.26 | mindjuju | is there commanality between the animals? yes |
| 00:49.31 | dataw0lf | http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/evolution-fact.html |
| 00:49.38 | dataw0lf | Please read this. |
| 00:50.03 | mindjuju | is it highly probable that they originated from an ancetoral species? perhaps |
| 00:50.09 | mindjuju | does that make it a fact? |
| 00:50.19 | mindjuju | well, what do you consider a fact to be? |
| 00:50.27 | mindjuju | that is why defs are so important here |
| 00:50.32 | olds | lol |
| 00:50.40 | dataw0lf | I can't argue this with you mindjuju. |
| 00:50.43 | dataw0lf | I'm sorry. |
| 00:50.47 | dataw0lf | Let's talk PHP. |
| 00:51.04 | mindjuju | fair enough |
| 00:51.19 | dataw0lf | danke |
| 00:51.22 | olds | It amazes me how people are able to compartmentalize their education |
| 00:51.28 | olds | and knowledge |
| 00:51.42 | olds | and critical thinking |
| 00:51.52 | dataw0lf | it's a huge problem. |
| 00:52.09 | dataw0lf | in all areas, not just evolution. |
| 00:52.34 | dataw0lf | smart people are able to justify various ideals to themselves much easier than the dumb ones. |
| 00:52.37 | dataw0lf | it astounds me |
| 00:52.44 | mindjuju | here i thought the conversation was over? |
| 00:52.57 | olds | we're talking though |
| 00:53.23 | dataw0lf | I'm not arguing evolution, I'm just noting some observations of mine to olds |
| 00:53.47 | fungus | class Human extends Primate {} |
| 00:54.13 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 00:56.04 | dataw0lf | olds: You've graduated now, haven't you? |
| 00:56.10 | olds | I'm done with 1 degree |
| 00:56.14 | olds | getting my 2nd |
| 00:56.24 | *** join/#uphpu burnin (n=burnin@42dbe40e.dsl.aros.net) |
| 00:56.24 | dataw0lf | nice, congrats. |
| 00:56.26 | dataw0lf | what's your second? |
| 00:56.29 | olds | CS |
| 00:56.32 | dataw0lf | word. |
| 00:57.28 | olds | I think a lot of the problem with people trying to 'discredit' evolution is that it has Theory attached to it |
| 00:58.01 | dataw0lf | I know, that's the #1 argument. DUDE IT'S A THEORY. So is the Theory of Relativity, the Pythagorean Theory, I mean, crikey |
| 00:58.19 | olds | Gravity, etc |
| 00:58.32 | olds | well, some people say Law of Gravity |
| 00:58.36 | olds | but it's really a Theory |
| 00:58.48 | dataw0lf | true dat, especially with quantum physics joining the fray. |
| 00:58.55 | olds | yea |
| 00:59.07 | dataw0lf | gravity is an OBSERVABLE PHENOMENON (like evolution), a theory just explains the why and the how |
| 01:00.09 | fungus | A theory is a scientifically proven idea through experimentation. |
| 01:00.27 | fungus | A law is a theory that has gained consensus of the community over a long time. |
| 01:00.35 | olds | that's the more commonly (among academia) used definition |
| 01:00.50 | dataw0lf | the real hard part comes when you try to explain macroevolution |
| 01:01.07 | dataw0lf | microevolution, you can usually get them to mutter under their breath about, 'ok, ok, you got me there' |
| 01:01.51 | fungus | agreed, macroevolution needs more data over a few more centuries to really show the truth. |
| 01:02.16 | burnin | fossil record isn't accetable as data? |
| 01:02.29 | burnin | s/accetable/acceptable/ |
| 01:02.41 | olds | srsly |
| 01:03.54 | dataw0lf | have you guys ever heard Bill Hicks piece on creationists? |
| 01:04.07 | dataw0lf | got the DVD for christmas, I'm loving it |
| 01:06.20 | dataw0lf | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qmglGWMsdk |
| 01:06.24 | dataw0lf | oh jeaaaaaaaaaaaa |
| 01:08.15 | burnin | lol |
| 01:09.09 | burnin | "dinosaur" |
| 01:09.12 | burnin | hehe |
| 01:10.42 | burnin | why an English teacher is discussing dinosaurs and meteorites in an English class is what I was thinking. |
| 01:12.57 | dataw0lf | "some prankster god running around... hohoho... we'll see who believes in me now. hohoho" |
| 01:16.13 | mindjuju | yeah, it's prolly a good idea we're dropping the debate, dw. you can't seem to believe that a person would have issues with evolution outside of religious ones |
| 01:17.00 | dataw0lf | well, I'm just wondering what your motives are. I honestly haven't met anyone who argues against evolution that isn't motivated by religion. |
| 01:17.19 | mindjuju | science isn't always right |
| 01:17.30 | mindjuju | theory, by defs that i've read so far, are evolving |
| 01:17.47 | olds | the mechanisms of evolution and their theories, are indeed 'evolving' |
| 01:18.04 | dataw0lf | I don't think science is always right. I don't worship science. However, I take scientific data and read about it. |
| 01:18.06 | olds | but the overriding concept is not in limbo in the scientific community |
| 01:18.16 | mindjuju | yesterday, we used ether to explain light's passage, today, we give light particle~wave properities |
| 01:18.21 | mindjuju | i wonder what it's going to be tomorrow |
| 01:18.24 | dataw0lf | Evolution is one that's very, very, very, very, very, very convincing. |
| 01:18.41 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: Correct! But that doesn't mean LIGHT doesn't exist! |
| 01:19.06 | dataw0lf | I have issues, especially with macroevolution. But it's closer than anything else out there to explain the phenomenon! |
| 01:19.10 | mindjuju | right, but where gettign into probs is your instances to say that light and evolution are the same in the anology |
| 01:19.17 | burnin | mindjuju, it'll change when another theory can be tested, duplicated, and does a better job of explaining the observations. |
| 01:19.27 | mindjuju | true that, burnin |
| 01:19.28 | dataw0lf | they're both observable phenomenon mindjuju. |
| 01:19.33 | dataw0lf | There isn't much difference. |
| 01:20.08 | mindjuju | back to point, you want to say that evolution is like light in that case |
| 01:20.11 | mindjuju | and I don't agree with that |
| 01:20.31 | olds | actually light is a much more interesting and complex phenomenon ;) |
| 01:20.31 | dataw0lf | you don't agree that evolution is an observable phenomenon, and that's why I cannot argue the point with you. |
| 01:20.34 | mindjuju | it's all in the defs |
| 01:20.57 | dataw0lf | and that you disagree that evolution is an observable phenomenon, that's what makes me suspect you're religiously biased. |
| 01:21.00 | dataw0lf | Just sayin', mindjuju. |
| 01:21.30 | mindjuju | there are similarities that "strongly suggest" |
| 01:21.34 | mindjuju | that's a quote from wiki |
| 01:21.43 | mindjuju | my quote marks |
| 01:21.59 | dataw0lf | similarities in what? the fossil record? genomes? what? |
| 01:22.24 | mindjuju | even you, you, you said this |
| 01:22.25 | mindjuju | Evolution is one that's very, very, very, very, very, very convincing. |
| 01:22.45 | mindjuju | but, is there data to prove if you put a monkey in an enviroment similar to earth, give it 2 mil years, will you get a human? |
| 01:22.53 | olds | lol |
| 01:23.05 | dataw0lf | oh man, you're missing the point mindjuju, that's why I can't argue this with you, brotha. |
| 01:23.12 | burnin | I can guarantee you wont get a human. :) |
| 01:23.24 | olds | yea, it's almost certain you won't get a human |
| 01:23.27 | mindjuju | yeah, just a 2mil year old monkey and some poo |
| 01:23.31 | dataw0lf | haha |
| 01:23.35 | burnin | hehe |
| 01:23.39 | dataw0lf | no, you'll most likely get a more advanced form of life |
| 01:23.58 | dataw0lf | or the monkey(s) will die off |
| 01:24.07 | olds | you might end up with different creatures, or the same creature |
| 01:24.13 | olds | it depends on so many factors |
| 01:24.20 | dataw0lf | yes indeed |
| 01:24.24 | mindjuju | yeah, random mutations that natural selection choose from |
| 01:24.30 | olds | well |
| 01:24.37 | dataw0lf | evolution isn't random, let's kill that right off. |
| 01:24.48 | mindjuju | didn't say evolution was random |
| 01:24.52 | olds | right, but evolution is not a steady thing, it typically occurs in bursts due to widespread ecological change |
| 01:24.52 | dataw0lf | there do exist (microevolution) random mutations, but the end result isn't random |
| 01:24.52 | mindjuju | said the mutations were random |
| 01:24.57 | burnin | I could be wrong about this but I suspect the odds of the monkeys going exstinct is more likely than evolution. |
| 01:25.09 | dataw0lf | burnin: yea, I'd say so too |
| 01:25.18 | dataw0lf | 2 million years is one helluva long time |
| 01:25.26 | mindjuju | right, natural selection according to the theory, chooses, but what does it choose from? random mutations |
| 01:25.38 | mindjuju | errors in replication |
| 01:25.52 | olds | well, not errors |
| 01:26.02 | burnin | now if you have an entire ecosystem I can guarantee you'll get evolution, just look at the fossil record. |
| 01:26.10 | burnin | :) |
| 01:26.27 | olds | natural selection is about selecting certain traits... naturally |
| 01:26.35 | mindjuju | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution look about 1/8th the way down |
| 01:26.37 | dataw0lf | selection is the key word there |
| 01:26.44 | mindjuju | but i've heard this before the wiki article |
| 01:27.06 | mindjuju | errors, gamma rays == random |
| 01:27.09 | olds | or example, if my short stocky self were in Africa and then there was a big flood and all the trees only had fruit that was accessible if I was tall, then I'm a goner, and you're left with a tall population |
| 01:27.21 | olds | no errors in replication, no random mutations |
| 01:27.41 | olds | just selection of a certain trait |
| 01:27.45 | olds | due to environmental change |
| 01:27.48 | dataw0lf | well just look at polar bears |
| 01:27.55 | olds | yea, pwnt |
| 01:27.59 | mindjuju | that can happen, but errors is what caused the deviance between the tall and the short |
| 01:28.02 | olds | the polar bears that is |
| 01:28.18 | mindjuju | else, there would be no variance |
| 01:28.23 | olds | no mindjuju, errors in replication did not choose tall or short |
| 01:28.30 | olds | okay step back |
| 01:28.40 | olds | you get half of your dna from your dad, half from your mom |
| 01:28.46 | olds | basically |
| 01:28.48 | olds | your genes that is |
| 01:28.50 | olds | not dna |
| 01:28.58 | mindjuju | and since we are all from the same ancestor, they are both short |
| 01:29.11 | olds | but we are not all from 1 ancestor |
| 01:29.32 | olds | we are from a group that evolved |
| 01:29.38 | dataw0lf | and 'mutations' occur at a constant rate |
| 01:29.54 | dataw0lf | you could say we've evolved to take advantage of this |
| 01:29.55 | dataw0lf | :) |
| 01:30.04 | dataw0lf | complex lifeforms being 'we' that is |
| 01:30.08 | mindjuju | These mutations are generally considered to be random (with respect to fitness) and to occur at a fairly constant rate in the absence of additional factors. Mutations are permanent, transmissible changes to the genetic material (usually DNA or RNA) of a cell, and can be caused by: "copying errors" in the genetic material during cell division; by exposure to radiation, chemicals, or viruses. |
| 01:30.21 | olds | right |
| 01:30.51 | olds | but the selection of the traits is not random |
| 01:31.00 | mindjuju | i didn't say they were |
| 01:31.06 | dataw0lf | gamma rays, I'm sure, have been around longer than life. So, obviously, carbon based lifeforms will adapt and, well, evolve to match this. |
| 01:31.08 | mindjuju | i said natural selection chooses from random |
| 01:31.24 | dataw0lf | I don't really consider it all that random |
| 01:31.48 | olds | yea, it's not random, certain traits are going to be more advantageous than others |
| 01:31.58 | burnin | natural selection will choose traits from genetic drift or mutation. |
| 01:32.00 | dataw0lf | when life is going to exist and adapt in any environment, even 'reality' or the 'universe' itself, it will take advantage of what is at hand |
| 01:32.34 | dataw0lf | eventually, it's going to be fun, because once quantum computers become available, we'll see a proof of evolution |
| 01:32.37 | dataw0lf | :) |
| 01:33.21 | dataw0lf | quantum physics will be the new religion, mark my words... |
| 01:33.21 | mindjuju | hope your not disappointed after the model displays something slightly different from what your expecting |
| 01:33.32 | dataw0lf | no, I won't be, I fully expect that. |
| 01:33.53 | burnin | new religion? I doubt it. |
| 01:34.09 | burnin | quantum physics will probably end up just like every model before it. |
| 01:34.25 | olds | but jesus made the quantum computer so he totally has r00t on it |
| 01:34.28 | olds | pwnt dataw0lf |
| 01:34.37 | mindjuju | heh |
| 01:34.42 | burnin | I suppose at some point there will be absolute understanding, but will quantum physics be it? Somehow I don't think so. |
| 01:35.46 | burnin | ok, I'm not getting any work done, knock it off. :) |
| 01:35.53 | olds | srsly |
| 01:36.05 | mindjuju | yeah, i got to finish deploying this server |
| 01:36.44 | burnin | mindjuju, oh, linux apache server, mysql, postgresql? :) |
| 01:37.09 | mindjuju | win 2k3 for multimedia streaming |
| 01:37.12 | olds | IIS, Visual Fox Pro, Perl |
| 01:37.13 | macnewbold | eww |
| 01:37.18 | olds | and Access |
| 01:37.37 | mindjuju | Access? now that's hitting below the belt! |
| 01:37.42 | mindjuju | ~bdhit olds |
| 01:37.46 | jbot | ACTION gives olds the Priest Flip of the Blessed Foulness |
| 01:37.46 | dataw0lf | I dunno, I'm pretty sure quantum physics is it. |
| 01:37.57 | dataw0lf | or a huge jump in the right direction, anyways. |
| 01:38.28 | dataw0lf | this is totally based on the fact that I can't understand it hardly at all, so, c'mon, it's gotta be it! |
| 01:38.36 | olds | tru |
| 01:38.50 | burnin | dinner time, mmmm, fajitas... |
| 01:39.07 | mindjuju | fajitas? |
| 01:39.21 | dataw0lf | dang duge, share. |
| 01:39.26 | dataw0lf | s/duge/dude/g |
| 01:39.41 | dataw0lf | trying to get healthy? |
| 01:40.02 | mindjuju | nah, in a hurry. yesterday made a killer caesar salad and didn't ahve time to pack anything for lunch |
| 01:40.09 | mindjuju | so just grabbed the leftovers and ran out the door |
| 01:40.18 | dataw0lf | ew, leftover salad. |
| 01:40.25 | dataw0lf | it browning yet? |
| 01:40.32 | mindjuju | i keeps the stuff seperate |
| 01:40.38 | mindjuju | dressing added on the plate |
| 01:40.40 | dataw0lf | ooh, nice. |
| 01:40.44 | mindjuju | croutons and others same |
| 01:40.58 | mindjuju | but it's definently not fajitas |
| 01:41.01 | dataw0lf | they should make a salad snack pack. California, millions, right there. |
| 01:41.52 | mindjuju | so, are you really coming to lunch on the 12th? |
| 01:42.01 | olds | dataw0lf? |
| 01:42.02 | dataw0lf | yup, just bought my ticket |
| 01:42.06 | dataw0lf | I got a three day that weekend. |
| 01:42.11 | mindjuju | that's awesome! |
| 01:42.15 | dataw0lf | might as well take Friday off too, gotta spend the PTO |
| 01:42.29 | thebigdog | i might as well see dw |
| 01:42.51 | dataw0lf | yea, it should be sweet. |
| 01:43.36 | dataw0lf | o.m.g |
| 01:43.38 | dataw0lf | dude |
| 01:43.57 | dataw0lf | I just beat my buddy's friend who's in some major clan 25 to 4 and I hadn't played for months |
| 01:44.01 | mindjuju | dude, i'll try to find some way to handicap my awesome skills to make it fair for you |
| 01:44.14 | dataw0lf | you better eat some spinach or something |
| 01:44.33 | dataw0lf | cuz I'll just rock the pistol with the machine gun and still destroy you |
| 01:44.37 | olds | I just beat the halo world champion.... blindfolded |
| 01:44.48 | dataw0lf | while on ketamine |
| 01:44.54 | olds | and valium |
| 01:45.04 | dataw0lf | under heavy fire in Baghdad. |
| 01:45.09 | mindjuju | pistol and machine gun? i just go one handed pistol |
| 01:45.15 | olds | with an open bullet wound |
| 01:45.30 | dataw0lf | and talking on the phone with his mom trying to reassure her he'd be ok |
| 01:45.30 | mindjuju | too bad they don't have a crowbar, the would even it up a little more for ya! |
| 01:45.45 | dataw0lf | I'll just grab the sword and land on your head |
| 01:45.56 | dataw0lf | ASSASSINATION |
| 01:46.07 | mindjuju | and I'll shoot ya as ya come down |
| 01:46.16 | dataw0lf | yea, good luck when I have the shield |
| 01:46.31 | mindjuju | oh, you use the shield? i don't too wussy |
| 01:46.42 | mindjuju | :) |
| 01:46.49 | dataw0lf | I'm a pragmatist. I'll use anything and everything to win. |
| 01:47.11 | dataw0lf | that's why I'd learn how to dodge rockets this week before I come down, too |
| 01:47.21 | dataw0lf | cuz I'm gonna hitcha |
| 01:47.23 | dataw0lf | in midair |
| 01:47.26 | dataw0lf | with some rockets |
| 01:48.04 | dataw0lf | then I'll sticky grenade you after I'm up like 10 - 1 just to make it funny |
| 01:48.24 | mindjuju | you'll have to hit me first |
| 01:48.35 | dataw0lf | that won't be a problem because your back will be to me |
| 01:48.37 | mindjuju | you ain't seen my jukes yet, |
| 01:48.51 | mindjuju | i'm the juke king!!! |
| 01:48.54 | dataw0lf | you juke all you want, I'll just throw the sticky on your feet |
| 01:49.12 | mindjuju | pshah |
| 01:49.26 | dataw0lf | now I'm really looking forward to this |
| 01:49.31 | dataw0lf | you better not wuss out |
| 01:50.04 | dataw0lf | the second game we played that kid turned off the xbox and stomped out of the room |
| 01:50.08 | dataw0lf | don't pull that |
| 01:50.33 | mindjuju | heh, nah, wouldn't do that |
| 01:50.47 | dataw0lf | oh, btw, I punch you in the shoulder if you get a kill on me |
| 01:50.49 | dataw0lf | ask tierra |
| 01:50.57 | dataw0lf | it's just a reflex action, I can't help it |
| 01:51.12 | mindjuju | i'll have to strap pillas to my shoulder then |
| 01:51.28 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 01:51.55 | mindjuju | k, i've got to finish this deploy and then i'll come back and talk some more smack |
| 01:52.06 | dataw0lf | I mean, honestly, do you not remember this screenshot mindjuju: |
| 01:52.09 | dataw0lf | http://dataw0lf.phonese.cx/comments.php?660 |
| 01:52.18 | thebigdog | lol they hate me here at work |
| 01:52.55 | dataw0lf | 37 out of 37 with the rocket launcher |
| 01:52.59 | dataw0lf | direct body hits |
| 01:53.01 | dataw0lf | I mean |
| 01:53.02 | dataw0lf | c'mon |
| 01:53.12 | mindjuju | we you playing by yourself? |
| 01:53.20 | dataw0lf | no, I was playing against harm |
| 01:53.45 | dataw0lf | you might not know harm |
| 01:53.56 | mindjuju | don't |
| 01:53.57 | mindjuju | any good? |
| 01:54.02 | dataw0lf | eh, he was ok |
| 01:54.08 | dataw0lf | nothing special |
| 01:54.09 | dataw0lf | still |
| 01:54.11 | dataw0lf | 37 out of 37 |
| 01:54.22 | dataw0lf | 25 to 0 score |
| 01:54.32 | dataw0lf | 'twas ridiculous. |
| 01:55.39 | macnewbold | luck |
| 01:55.46 | dataw0lf | pshaw! |
| 01:55.52 | macnewbold | sorry, cat jumped on the keyboard |
| 01:55.57 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 01:57.00 | dataw0lf | alright, I'm out gents |
| 01:57.09 | mindjuju | man, nobody said anything about my killer ascii art |
| 01:57.11 | mindjuju | cya dataw0lf |
| 01:57.20 | mindjuju | psh! |
| 01:57.33 | mindjuju | first you got to try to hit the side of a barn |
| 01:57.42 | mindjuju | then you can up your skills to hit something like me |
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| 01:58.20 | mindjuju | xilch|w , you around? |
| 01:58.20 | olds | I know harm |
| 01:58.24 | olds | he's jittery |
| 01:59.02 | mindjuju | i actually haven't played halo 2 in a LONG while, but i think i'm slightly better than average |
| 02:03.13 | macnewbold | mindjuju: yeah, the ascii art took me a while to figure out the letters were tilted |
| 02:03.21 | macnewbold | I thought my pine window was too narrow and wrapping it funny or something |
| 02:04.10 | macnewbold | didn't look any better in gmail either |
| 02:04.18 | macnewbold | but after I figured it out, it was cool |
| 02:08.00 | mindjuju | bummer! |
| 02:18.51 | burnin | time to play with some code now |
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| 03:20.36 | xilch|w | mindjuju: sorry, I've been afk alot today. And I'm just about ready to head home. I'll try to hit you up tomorrow |
| 03:20.59 | mindjuju | i'll bug ya then |
| 03:21.05 | xilch|w | word |
| 07:43.03 | mindjuju | anybody around? |
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| 16:03.38 | Utah_Dave | buenos dias |
| 16:05.00 | jsmith | Igualmente |
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| 16:06.28 | beandog | buenos |
| 16:08.29 | _psychic_ | dias |
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| 16:21.24 | dataw0lf | dude, seriously |
| 16:21.39 | dataw0lf | http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/01/03/subway.rescue.ap/index.html |
| 16:21.45 | dataw0lf | that guy is awesome |
| 16:22.01 | dataw0lf | not only is he a hero, he's got on a playboy bunny hat |
| 16:22.15 | dataw0lf | this really is what america used to be at it's core. |
| 16:23.33 | beandog | http://www.samag.com/documents/s=10113/sam0713b/0713b.htm |
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| 16:29.47 | dataw0lf | beandog: psh, easy as pie |
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| 16:39.42 | brasto | lol, wps, i think Alvaro may have it - check his post that just came in. |
| 16:40.05 | wps | :) |
| 16:40.09 | wps | yeah, am trying it now |
| 16:40.31 | brasto | timinator - that PLUG PHP presentation is in the Ogden area - care to present with me? |
| 16:41.00 | brasto | provided you have some spare time between mlt and family? |
| 16:41.02 | atoponce | brasto: i have daniel crookston presenting also |
| 16:41.25 | atoponce | s/PLUG/OALUG/ |
| 16:41.28 | atoponce | :) |
| 16:41.32 | brasto | are we presenting together or separately - for 2 groups? |
| 16:41.42 | timinator | present with you: definately..... get time off to prepare (or even attend): not going to happen |
| 16:41.57 | atoponce | i don't know about PLUG, but OALUG only has one workshop. |
| 16:42.11 | atoponce | brasto: so far, you and daniel have volunteered |
| 16:42.21 | timinator | sorry brasto |
| 16:42.26 | brasto | no prob |
| 16:43.25 | atoponce | i'm not against a group effort, but you'll need to coordinate with each other |
| 16:44.09 | brasto | atoponce - that sounds good. is Daniel the one that posted and said he used to teach a class on it? |
| 16:44.23 | atoponce | not sure. let me look |
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| 16:47.03 | brasto | atoponce - it looks like it was Lamont Peterson |
| 16:47.56 | brasto | but it was not a solid committment: |
| 16:48.18 | brasto | I think I'll be back in town by the 27th, and would be able to present. 2 hours is nothing to me (I usually do 40 in a week when I'm teaching). |
| 16:49.51 | brasto | macnewbold - I'm looking into parsing ics files soon, so i'll let you know when i have some published info on it. |
| 16:50.30 | brasto | it will be my next task after migrating mscis.org to my homegrown cms |
| 16:52.10 | brasto | macnewbold - i also found how to do automatic CreateDate fields in MySQL 5. The answer was too obvious... therefore it took me a while ;) . Use a trigger... |
| 16:52.39 | jsmith | Hey, anyone know of good program for replying to certain emails with a canned response? |
| 16:53.48 | jsmith | I may have to write my own :-( |
| 16:55.11 | brasto | macnewbold - something like this: |
| 16:55.12 | brasto | CREATE TRIGGER [nameOfTrigger] |
| 16:55.13 | brasto | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:55.15 | brasto | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:55.16 | brasto | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:56.08 | macnewbold | brasto: nice! |
| 16:56.13 | atoponce | brasto: is it clear what i'm looking for in the workshop? |
| 16:56.15 | macnewbold | what mysql versions does that work with? |
| 16:56.29 | macnewbold | jsmith: procmail or vacation or some combination thereof might do it |
| 16:56.36 | macnewbold | in fact, I'm quite sure they will |
| 16:56.59 | jsmith | macnewbold: In this case, I don't want it to *automatically* send the response. |
| 16:57.07 | brasto | atoponce - yes, i believe so - i'll set up some preliminary stuff on my website so you can provide some feedback |
| 16:57.14 | jsmith | macnewbold: I want someone to look at each email, then press the button for the appropriate canned response ;-) |
| 16:57.19 | brasto | macnewbold - MySQL 5+ |
| 16:57.55 | atoponce | brasto: ok. coord with daniel to make sure you guys are on the same page, if you wouldn't mind :) |
| 16:58.38 | brasto | yes, will do |
| 16:58.56 | atoponce | thx |
| 16:59.16 | macnewbold | jsmith: it wouldn't be hard to whip up something in php, I bet, or perl or whatever - sending email is easy from any of those |
| 16:59.28 | brasto | I'll Lamont Peterson wants to help still |
| 16:59.49 | atoponce | probably |
| 17:00.06 | atoponce | i have his contact in jabber. i'll im him when he gets online, and see what he plans on doing |
| 17:00.14 | brasto | insert the words "also see if" between "I'll" and "Lamont" |
| 17:00.22 | jsmith | macnewbold: Yeah... I'd just hate to reinvent the wheel if someone knows of something like that already. |
| 17:00.25 | atoponce | brasto: :) |
| 17:00.40 | brasto | lol |
| 17:00.55 | atoponce | i'll just let you 3 do as needed. :) |
| 17:01.22 | atoponce | anyone know of a good place in weber or davis counties for a backup location? |
| 17:01.35 | atoponce | the wsu comp lab is looking less and less likely as the days move on |
| 17:01.52 | macnewbold | pine could work, with a little cut and paste action, jsmith, but it wouldn't be real graceful |
| 17:02.16 | macnewbold | if #utah doesn't know, there probably is no such wheel, at least not a simple one outside of some big system |
| 17:02.42 | jsmith | OK... I'll either bend the requirements, or do it myself. |
| 17:02.45 | jsmith | Thanks |
| 17:07.15 | dataw0lf | what're you looking for? |
| 17:08.11 | dataw0lf | ah, an autoresponder |
| 17:08.29 | dataw0lf | just google for 'autoresponder linux' |
| 17:08.33 | jsmith | Yeah, but not really "auto" |
| 17:08.42 | jsmith | More like "mechanical turk"-responder |
| 17:08.55 | jsmith | I think I've found a better way... |
| 17:08.58 | dataw0lf | yea, google for autoresponder |
| 17:09.20 | jsmith | Been there, done that. |
| 17:09.26 | jsmith | Nothing really fits my needs. |
| 17:09.37 | jsmith | Thanks though... |
| 17:09.40 | dataw0lf | alrighty |
| 17:10.16 | dataw0lf | I know there's several manual versions with a curses interface out there |
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| 17:50.03 | Lone_Wanderer | Good morning everyone. |
| 17:50.17 | beandog | mo'nin |
| 17:50.46 | beandog | Im outta donuts. |
| 17:50.50 | macnewbold | g'day Lone_Wanderer |
| 17:51.07 | Lone_Wanderer | Out of donuts? That's tragic! |
| 17:51.16 | macnewbold | ~cake |
| 17:51.17 | jbot | well, cake is all gone :( |
| 17:51.22 | beandog | worse than that, im hungry! |
| 17:51.46 | beandog | heh |
| 17:51.47 | beandog | :) |
| 17:52.01 | dataw0lf | everyone seen the subway hero story? |
| 17:52.15 | Lone_Wanderer | Everything lately is a tragedy of Hellenistic proportions. |
| 17:52.19 | Lone_Wanderer | No, what was it? |
| 17:53.30 | Lone_Wanderer | The guy who jumped in front of the train to save someone? (thank you Reddit) |
| 17:53.32 | dataw0lf | http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/01/03/subway.rescue.ap/index.html |
| 17:53.42 | dataw0lf | dude, check out his picture |
| 17:53.45 | dataw0lf | he's awesome |
| 17:53.54 | dataw0lf | he's wearing a playboy hat that's so cool |
| 17:53.58 | dataw0lf | all heros should dress like that |
| 17:54.27 | Lone_Wanderer | He looks like he's just as soon bust your skull in as save you, too. |
| 17:55.09 | dataw0lf | yea, he's sweet |
| 17:55.23 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh you got a different picture. |
| 17:55.27 | Lone_Wanderer | http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/03/nyregion/03life.html?ex=1325480400&en=bfb239e4fab06ab5&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss |
| 17:56.08 | dataw0lf | nice |
| 17:58.17 | mindjuju | i hope swb isn't disappointed, i've only got 1 RSVP |
| 17:58.58 | macnewbold | rsvp for what? |
| 17:58.59 | Lone_Wanderer | one rsvp for what? |
| 17:59.05 | macnewbold | ~jinx Lone_Wanderer |
| 18:01.12 | mindjuju | RSVP for the geek lunch |
| 18:01.21 | macnewbold | count me in, mindjuju |
| 18:01.28 | mindjuju | did that email come out ok, or did the ASCII graphic throw everybody off? |
| 18:08.21 | tierra | mindjuju: I'll be there... also, your ASCII didn't look pretty in Gmail |
| 18:09.37 | Lone_Wanderer | (a bit late, had to go afk) |
| 18:10.53 | tierra | mindjuju: actually, I'm still not sure whether I'll be gone @ MacWorld or not |
| 18:11.11 | tierra | I don't think it's going to happen |
| 18:11.36 | tierra | but there's still a chance |
| 18:11.47 | mindjuju | don't think macworld will happen or don't think kyoto will happen? |
| 18:12.03 | tierra | MacWorld, sorry |
| 18:12.24 | mindjuju | no worries |
| 18:12.42 | tierra | I'll know for sure in plenty of time to let you know |
| 18:13.06 | swb | I'm not disappointed, we should just get informal RSVPs the day before |
| 18:13.23 | mindjuju | sup swb |
| 18:13.28 | swb | sup |
| 18:14.00 | macnewbold | ~swb |
| 18:14.01 | jbot | from memory, swb is UPHPU's resident webmistress |
| 18:14.05 | mindjuju | not much here, not feeling well so coding from home while watching james bond. does it gt any better? |
| 18:14.35 | synic | it would probably be better if you were feeling better :P |
| 18:14.35 | Lone_Wanderer | ~facepalm |
| 18:14.52 | swb | I'm sorry you don't feel good! |
| 18:15.08 | swb | more garlic.. |
| 18:15.27 | swb | garlic cures all kinds of illnesses you know |
| 18:15.50 | mindjuju | well, i like garlic bread |
| 18:15.57 | diskotec|w | cod liver oil |
| 18:16.06 | diskotec|w | heh |
| 18:16.14 | mindjuju | cod liver oil? hmmm... |
| 18:16.30 | macnewbold | I thought that was castor oil |
| 18:16.53 | mindjuju | castor oil is a diarehtic, i think |
| 18:17.07 | diskotec|w | hmm...my mom made me take stuff out of a bottle titled Cod Liver Oil |
| 18:17.29 | mindjuju | what symptoms where you having? did it help? |
| 18:17.31 | diskotec|w | bleh |
| 18:17.50 | macnewbold | hehe - diarehtic like diarrhea? or diuretic like makes you pee a lot? |
| 18:17.55 | diskotec|w | I don't remember. That was 20 years ago |
| 18:18.09 | *** join/#uphpu fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:250:8dff:fe71:9a6b) |
| 18:18.09 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o fungus] by ChanServ |
| 18:18.27 | mindjuju | oh, i meant that i thought that castor oil makes you poo a lot |
| 18:18.54 | mindjuju | and I think that the active ingrident in castor oil, in pure high amounts is fatal |
| 18:19.10 | mindjuju | ~wiki castor oil |
| 18:19.45 | diskotec|w | I always think of that movie "Stand By Me" when I think of castor oil |
| 18:19.49 | swb | um, stick to garlic |
| 18:19.56 | swb | it's yummier |
| 18:21.21 | mindjuju | k, found it. castor oil is a laxative and the killer ingredient is called ricin |
| 18:21.23 | Lone_Wanderer | castor oil makes you puke |
| 18:21.34 | swb | garlic, garlic! |
| 18:21.44 | Lone_Wanderer | because it's toxic |
| 18:21.47 | mindjuju | i'm actually a cayene pepper fan |
| 18:21.49 | diskotec|w | keeps the vampires away...right swb? |
| 18:22.33 | dataw0lf | yum garlic |
| 18:23.04 | dataw0lf | vampires rock |
| 18:23.17 | Lone_Wanderer | Great. |
| 18:23.28 | Lone_Wanderer | No changes to the billing code since last month |
| 18:23.39 | Lone_Wanderer | and yet somehow it bills everyone more than it should have |
| 18:23.59 | dataw0lf | hey! |
| 18:24.12 | dataw0lf | don't use a weapon if you're not going to clean it afterwards! |
| 18:24.23 | swb | mmm, cobb salad from Eggs in the City... see ya after lunch |
| 18:24.26 | Lone_Wanderer | It was just my left foot. |
| 18:24.29 | dataw0lf | carbon up in the bolt, thanks dude. |
| 18:24.34 | dataw0lf | oh |
| 18:24.40 | mindjuju | lone_wanderer, umm... i think your not looking at it right. that's not a bug, that's a feature! |
| 18:24.55 | swb | like office space |
| 18:25.06 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah, I should shunt the extra money off into my own account. |
| 18:25.17 | mindjuju | double charge everybody... automatically? |
| 18:25.23 | mindjuju | WAY COOL! |
| 18:25.24 | dataw0lf | that's no moon... it's a spacestation! |
| 18:25.29 | Lone_Wanderer | At least this will be a good selling point for putting in some kind of versioning software. |
| 18:25.36 | swb | if anyone in you're office starts mumbling about staplers, watch out! |
| 18:25.44 | dataw0lf | your* |
| 18:27.55 | dataw0lf | I wonder if I quote SW more than three times a day |
| 18:27.58 | dataw0lf | probably |
| 18:28.29 | Lone_Wanderer | I heard that if you quote Star Wars more than three times a day it unlocks a secret level. |
| 18:29.15 | dataw0lf | omg rly? |
| 18:29.38 | dataw0lf | The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers |
| 18:30.16 | dataw0lf | Travelling through hyperspace isn't like dusting crops, boy! |
| 18:30.19 | Lone_Wanderer | Tarkin? |
| 18:30.40 | mindjuju | yeah, as in "General Tarkin, i thought i smelled your foul stench..." |
| 18:30.41 | Lone_Wanderer | My clan on a MUD is called Tarkin. |
| 18:30.44 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh. |
| 18:31.04 | dataw0lf | it's Governor Tarkin |
| 18:31.14 | mindjuju | oh was it? |
| 18:32.24 | dataw0lf | I've been waiting for you, Obi-Wan. We meet again, at last. The circle is now complete. When I met you I was but the learner. Now _I_ am the master. |
| 18:32.31 | dataw0lf | Only a master of evil, Darth. |
| 18:32.45 | dataw0lf | I can quote all three movies pretty much in their entirety. |
| 18:34.12 | dataw0lf | hahaha BRING IT |
| 18:36.16 | mindjuju | "Answer me these questions three, ere the other side he see!" why did Lucas change who shot first in the Mos Eisley cantina scene? |
| 18:37.11 | Lone_Wanderer | Wasn't it to make Han Solo seem less barbaric, or whatever? |
| 18:37.20 | mindjuju | yup, that's it |
| 18:37.41 | dataw0lf | oh, c'mon, that was easy |
| 18:37.58 | dataw0lf | what type of armor does Boba Fett wear? |
| 18:38.05 | mindjuju | mandaliorian |
| 18:38.05 | Lone_Wanderer | They should have left it the way it was. |
| 18:38.09 | Lone_Wanderer | I like him barbaric. |
| 18:38.23 | dataw0lf | *mandalorian |
| 18:38.27 | macnewbold | mithril |
| 18:38.32 | Lone_Wanderer | Why is Boba Fett so cool? |
| 18:38.39 | dataw0lf | he has a rocket pack |
| 18:38.46 | mindjuju | cause he disentegrates his foes |
| 18:38.59 | macnewbold | cause his ship looks funny, flying standing up |
| 18:39.05 | mindjuju | "nooo disintigration" |
| 18:39.17 | mindjuju | hey, i had the Slave2 when i was a kid! |
| 18:39.22 | dataw0lf | me too |
| 18:39.40 | mindjuju | sad to say, i only had that and the AT - AT |
| 18:39.51 | mindjuju | took FOREVER to save for the AT - AT |
| 18:40.06 | dataw0lf | I had the Millenium Falcon |
| 18:40.09 | mindjuju | buddy of mine though had all the x-wing and the other ships |
| 18:40.18 | mindjuju | yeah, the millenium falcon would have been cool |
| 18:40.39 | dataw0lf | I didn't have an X Wing. |
| 18:40.43 | dataw0lf | ooh, here's a good one |
| 18:40.56 | dataw0lf | what was Darth Vader's personal fighter the prototype of? |
| 18:41.33 | mindjuju | hmmm.... |
| 18:41.46 | Lone_Wanderer | You mean his little TIE? |
| 18:41.54 | mindjuju | well, it was kind of a mix between a tie fighter and a tie bomber |
| 18:42.03 | dataw0lf | it was the prototype for the TIE Interceptor |
| 18:42.14 | mindjuju | not NEARLY as cool as that way cool double bomber thing you see in Empire |
| 18:42.25 | Lone_Wanderer | What I'm wondering is, why did they have manual controls in their ships? |
| 18:42.31 | Lone_Wanderer | Why didn't they just plug their brains in directly? |
| 18:43.04 | dataw0lf | viral contamination |
| 18:44.52 | mindjuju | what was the name of the famous army unit that han solo goes up against on the Endor moon? (with the ewoks) |
| 18:45.31 | Lone_Wanderer | Someone should write a movie where character shields don't exist. |
| 18:45.38 | mindjuju | no wait |
| 18:45.57 | Lone_Wanderer | loathe > hate? |
| 18:46.02 | mindjuju | i think so |
| 18:46.27 | mindjuju | and there is actually one thing absolutely, undenably worse than accordian music or ranchera music |
| 18:46.33 | mindjuju | it's the jub jub song |
| 18:47.05 | Lone_Wanderer | What's the jub jub song? |
| 18:47.19 | mindjuju | jub jub song is the one the ewoks sing at the end of Jedi |
| 18:47.20 | Lone_Wanderer | And I think the time's up on your question. |
| 18:47.23 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh |
| 18:47.27 | beandog | heh |
| 18:47.31 | beandog | I bought the original DVDs the other day |
| 18:47.32 | beandog | much better. |
| 18:47.34 | mindjuju | it's maddening for me |
| 18:47.37 | beandog | The SE stuff is lame. |
| 18:47.53 | mindjuju | true that, SE is lame, BUT they did remove the jub jub song |
| 18:48.09 | beandog | ol George is losing his marbles in his old age. |
| 18:48.10 | mindjuju | and that makes Jedi SE better |
| 18:48.11 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: no idea, Wraith Squadron? |
| 18:48.12 | beandog | oh, I thought they put it in for SE |
| 18:48.25 | mindjuju | it was the 501st |
| 18:48.38 | mindjuju | yuck! |
| 18:48.42 | mindjuju | hate ewoks |
| 18:48.49 | dataw0lf | I don't mind em |
| 18:48.53 | dataw0lf | not after Phantom Menace |
| 18:48.58 | beandog | http://www.amazon.com/Star-Wars-Ewok-Adventures-Adventure/dp/B0002YCUR0/sr=1-1/qid=1167850126/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/002-9018889-9852042?ie=UTF8&s=dvd |
| 18:49.04 | mindjuju | dataw0lf prolly likes the jub jub song! |
| 18:49.16 | dataw0lf | yup, I dance naked to it around a campfire all the time. |
| 18:49.25 | mindjuju | lol |
| 18:50.07 | *** join/#uphpu burnin (n=burnin@42dbe40e.dsl.aros.net) |
| 18:52.07 | dataw0lf | http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/01/02/robertson.predictions.ap/ |
| 18:52.11 | dataw0lf | har har har |
| 18:52.54 | dataw0lf | EVERYONE PANIC |
| 18:54.42 | el_gaucho | oh hell |
| 18:54.51 | mindjuju | yeah, i heard about that, that's wierd |
| 18:55.03 | Lone_Wanderer | You'd think that if the Almighty Lord were revealing things to him, that his track record would be more than "pretty good". |
| 18:55.20 | dataw0lf | yea, that seems to indicate that God's track record is 'pretty good' |
| 18:55.20 | thebigdog | +1 |
| 18:56.54 | Lone_Wanderer | Caramel popcorn is delicious. |
| 18:59.00 | Lone_Wanderer | So far I've got versioning software and a testing harness. |
| 18:59.50 | burnin | why do "respectable" news outlets publish his tripe? |
| 18:59.57 | macnewbold | doesn't sound like Robertson is getting messages from any higher power to me... the predictions that do come true seem to be likely anyway, or vague enough that they can be easily satisfied, like storms hitting the coast in 2006 |
| 19:00.05 | dataw0lf | burnin: good question. |
| 19:00.06 | macnewbold | that's an extremely good question |
| 19:00.10 | dataw0lf | macnewbold: yea, no kidding. |
| 19:00.38 | dataw0lf | 'I prophesize that.... there will be a hurricane... somewhere in the .. gulf of mexico..' |
| 19:01.47 | burnin | their all trolls |
| 19:02.02 | Lone_Wanderer | Like it or not, he's a "notable" figure in the US, so when he does his song and dance, it does count as news. |
| 19:03.47 | dataw0lf | no, no, seriously |
| 19:03.50 | dataw0lf | look at this headline |
| 19:03.58 | dataw0lf | 'Spears Dozed Off in Nightclub' |
| 19:04.01 | dataw0lf | no, no, really |
| 19:04.51 | Lone_Wanderer | How could you sleep with all that noise? |
| 19:05.23 | dataw0lf | why is this reported? |
| 19:05.38 | Lone_Wanderer | It was more like an atmospheric effect. |
| 19:05.52 | dataw0lf | are we so bereft of news that we are actually reporting when Britney Spears dozes off? |
| 19:07.51 | burnin | dataw0lf, nah, its just that we no longer have news outlets, just 24/7 entertainment |
| 19:08.24 | dataw0lf | indeed |
| 19:08.41 | dataw0lf | anyone read Just For Fun? |
| 19:08.57 | dataw0lf | Torvalds talks about our need for entertainment a bit in there |
| 19:08.57 | Lone_Wanderer | something about delivering the same level of intensity 24 hours, regardless of whether there's news to report or not |
| 19:10.28 | burnin | Lone_Wanderer, the objective are those advertising dollars so its important to not lose your audience whether you have anything of value to comunicate or not. |
| 19:12.37 | burnin | ahhh, stir fried hot'n'spicy japanese noodles, cabage, and tofu |
| 19:12.40 | burnin | that was good |
| 19:12.56 | burnin | time for a bit of code |
| 19:12.58 | Lone_Wanderer | If you go for that kind of thing I suppose. |
| 19:13.49 | Lone_Wanderer | How does print_r know when it's got a recursive structure? |
| 19:14.59 | Lone_Wanderer | It must keep a list or something, and then every time it follows a reference it checks to see if it's printed (or is in the process of printing) what it points to already |
| 19:17.39 | burnin | this is probably a basic question, but I'm gonna ask anyhow :) |
| 19:17.54 | Lone_Wanderer | Go for it. |
| 19:18.10 | mindjuju | i hate to rehash old hash, but for those of you looking for a truely terrifying horror... |
| 19:18.11 | mindjuju | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3S2auEHR4rg |
| 19:18.15 | burnin | when you have a submit button in a form and you give it a name= and value= does the value get past in the $_POST/$_GET? |
| 19:18.28 | mindjuju | you can hear the yub nub song in the background |
| 19:18.30 | Lone_Wanderer | truly* |
| 19:18.43 | Lone_Wanderer | I believe it does burnin |
| 19:19.14 | burnin | yub nub? |
| 19:19.45 | mindjuju | yeah, turns out what i heard as "jub jub" was really "yub nub" |
| 19:19.54 | mindjuju | who knew that yub nub means freedom in ewokese |
| 19:19.56 | Utah_Dave | burnin: CI cleans out the $_GET variables though |
| 19:20.02 | timinator | it does burnin |
| 19:20.22 | burnin | Utah_Dave, yeah, I'll be using $_POST |
| 19:20.40 | Utah_Dave | try $this->input->post() |
| 19:20.59 | burnin | what does that do? |
| 19:21.36 | timinator | I've got some that work with $_POST["submit"] |
| 19:22.07 | timinator | $_POST["submit"]="Delete"; $_POST["submit"]="Update", etc. |
| 19:22.18 | macnewbold | why does CI clean out GET, yet leave POST? what does it do with REQUEST or COOKIES? |
| 19:22.21 | burnin | timinator, that's my plan. I was using some javascript to change the form's action depending on which button is pressed. |
| 19:22.33 | burnin | I didn't realize I could send the button pressed along with the form :) |
| 19:22.41 | burnin | changing my code now, no need for the javascript. |
| 19:22.44 | timinator | ya, much easier |
| 19:22.48 | timinator | :) |
| 19:23.00 | dataw0lf | wget -r -l1 --no-parent -A.jpg http://bobcat:7099/dev/ho1 |
| 19:23.05 | dataw0lf | gah |
| 19:23.26 | macnewbold | wrong window? |
| 19:24.03 | dataw0lf | screen is too slow fo' me |
| 19:24.06 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 19:25.11 | Lone_Wanderer | what's CI? |
| 19:25.16 | dataw0lf | codeigniter |
| 19:26.16 | macnewbold | what, do the CI fanboys call themselves the Arsonists or something? |
| 19:26.28 | burnin | burnin |
| 19:26.29 | burnin | :) |
| 19:26.38 | Lone_Wanderer | code igniter? :p |
| 19:26.48 | Lone_Wanderer | Clearly it lights your code on fire. |
| 19:27.13 | dataw0lf | with pure COOLNESS |
| 19:28.08 | Lone_Wanderer | I didn't know that coolness was combustible? |
| 19:28.22 | dataw0lf | in large amounts |
| 19:29.15 | burnin | LEL man, LEL |
| 19:29.57 | burnin | its like acetylene |
| 19:30.22 | Lone_Wanderer | LEL? |
| 19:30.41 | dataw0lf | lower explosive limit |
| 19:30.47 | burnin | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Explosive_limit |
| 19:30.52 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh |
| 19:33.10 | Lone_Wanderer | wow, acetlyne has a large range |
| 19:34.03 | dataw0lf | it burns hoooooooooot too |
| 19:34.31 | dataw0lf | something on the order of 3000 Celsius |
| 19:36.29 | dataw0lf | over 3300 Celsius, apparently |
| 19:36.37 | Lone_Wanderer | "the use of acetylene and oxygen mixtures was dropped after several gas explosions inside patients' lungs" |
| 19:36.46 | Lone_Wanderer | (as an anesthetic) |
| 19:36.55 | burnin | lol |
| 19:37.03 | burnin | wasn't aware of that application |
| 19:37.20 | Lone_Wanderer | apparently if you get the impurities out of it, it works great |
| 19:37.21 | mindjuju | that reminds me of the time when i was an RA and ran into several guys blue darting |
| 19:37.22 | burnin | surgical team doubles as a bomb squad |
| 19:37.24 | Lone_Wanderer | except that your chest might explode |
| 19:37.33 | Lone_Wanderer | blue darting? |
| 19:37.42 | mindjuju | ~blue dart |
| 19:37.56 | mindjuju | c'mon wiki, don't let me down |
| 19:38.15 | mindjuju | ah well, blue dart is when you light your own farts, with a lighter |
| 19:38.27 | burnin | hehe |
| 19:38.35 | dataw0lf | yea, that's not fun |
| 19:38.46 | Lone_Wanderer | ahhh |
| 19:39.07 | Lone_Wanderer | don't you run a risk of burning yourself? |
| 19:39.30 | dataw0lf | yes, yes you do |
| 19:39.42 | mindjuju | you know, i've never done it, so i don't know. but none of the guys went to the nurse |
| 19:39.44 | mindjuju | that i know of |
| 19:40.32 | mindjuju | just makes you think though, if you light a hair spray jet, there is a chance (i've heard) that the flame can go up into the can, i wonder if that is the same for a blue dart? |
| 19:41.07 | dataw0lf | hah |
| 19:41.18 | dataw0lf | http://www.sltrib.com/portlet/article/html/fragments/print_article.jsp?articleId=4924216&siteId=297 |
| 19:41.22 | dataw0lf | after being farked |
| 19:41.25 | burnin | what's the lel and uel of methane? |
| 19:41.57 | dataw0lf | methane's LEL is pretty high, I'm sure. |
| 19:42.02 | dataw0lf | dunno about the UEL |
| 19:42.38 | macnewbold | mindjuju: the only way the flame can come back in (with hairspray, lighter fluid, or any other liquid/gas/fluid exiting a container) is if the oxygen to fuel ratio inside the container becomes appropriate for combustion as well |
| 19:43.06 | macnewbold | otherwise, it is immediately extinguished by suffocation and lack of oxygen |
| 19:43.20 | mindjuju | curious |
| 19:43.27 | macnewbold | so with a blue dart, it _could_ happen, but only with enough internal oxygen |
| 19:43.34 | macnewbold | I wouldn't want to find out though |
| 19:47.33 | mindjuju | when using a web service, cookies don't come into play would they? |
| 19:47.49 | mindjuju | i mean, i thought a web service was pass params and get xml |
| 19:48.02 | mindjuju | would the service put a cookie on the client box? |
| 19:50.31 | macnewbold | depends if it is fully done over http, or if it's only a partial http-workalike |
| 19:50.42 | macnewbold | of course the client is never obligated to accept cookies |
| 19:51.06 | macnewbold | but the problem would more likely be in sending some that weren't expected, or submitting variables in get or post that weren't expected |
| 19:54.19 | fungus | web services theoretically could work with cookies, but it is not recommended. Very few web service clients have support for cookies. |
| 20:07.17 | Lone_Wanderer | cookies + web services sounds like a recipe for horrible breakage to me |
| 20:13.46 | beandog | I want a cookie |
| 20:14.03 | timinator | grab a snickers for me |
| 20:14.10 | beandog | Ive got those in my desk |
| 20:14.25 | beandog | I still have halloween candy sitting out |
| 20:14.25 | timinator | eek |
| 20:14.27 | timinator | nevermind |
| 20:14.29 | beandog | I guess nobody likes Mr Goodbar but me |
| 20:14.42 | beandog | or Nutrageous |
| 20:14.50 | Lone_Wanderer | Nutrageous sounds delicious. |
| 20:14.56 | Lone_Wanderer | I've never heard of them before though. |
| 20:16.32 | dataw0lf | what should I have for lunch... |
| 20:17.36 | dataw0lf | mongolian shrimp? |
| 20:19.18 | dataw0lf | dude I love the new Spider-Man 3 trailer |
| 20:20.45 | dataw0lf | what's up with 'Thr3e' anyways |
| 20:20.54 | dataw0lf | what a total ripoff of Se7en |
| 20:21.13 | *** join/#uphpu macnewbol1 (n=mac@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 20:21.13 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o macnewbol1] by ChanServ |
| 20:26.24 | Lone_Wanderer | They have good sandwiches. And soup. |
| 20:27.31 | Lone_Wanderer | Curses! |
| 20:30.18 | dataw0lf | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVhE7DVUFvA&NR |
| 20:31.45 | Lone_Wanderer | Who's the guy on the left? |
| 20:32.20 | dataw0lf | Spielberg |
| 20:33.03 | Lone_Wanderer | I figured. |
| 20:33.07 | Lone_Wanderer | The poor sod. |
| 20:33.18 | Lone_Wanderer | Relegated to making movies out of children's toys. |
| 20:33.23 | beandog | what sandwich place |
| 20:33.29 | beandog | I love the little side shop delis |
| 20:33.30 | Lone_Wanderer | The Robin's Nest |
| 20:33.31 | beandog | they are always the best |
| 20:33.44 | Lone_Wanderer | It's on 33rd south and 10-something east. Probably like 1030 east. |
| 20:33.56 | dataw0lf | new Harry Potter looks awesome too |
| 20:34.06 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah I saw that one. |
| 20:35.07 | Lone_Wanderer | Man, it's been forever since I wrote a class in PHP. |
| 20:38.54 | beandog | classes++ |
| 20:39.49 | Lone_Wanderer | The thing that sucks is, we're using PHP 4. |
| 20:39.57 | Lone_Wanderer | I should just upgrade to PHP 5. Right now. |
| 20:40.15 | beandog | heh |
| 20:41.23 | Lone_Wanderer | And CentOS is easy to roll back. |
| 20:44.28 | macnewbold | Lone_Wanderer: if it is easy to detect problems and roll back, go for it! |
| 20:44.35 | Lone_Wanderer | Okay I will! |
| 20:44.41 | macnewbold | j/k |
| 20:44.44 | drip | wow.. so persuasive. |
| 20:44.49 | macnewbold | no, really |
| 20:44.54 | drip | =) |
| 20:44.54 | Lone_Wanderer | It's easy to roll back, it's not easy to detect problems since we have no testing harness. |
| 20:45.04 | fungus | Ick. Michael Bay doing Transformers... |
| 20:45.22 | Lone_Wanderer | But if someone comes yelling at me that something's borked, then yeah I can roll it back in about 30 seconds. |
| 20:45.22 | macnewbold | if you can determine in 3-10 minutes whether the basic functionality is working or not, go ahead |
| 20:45.28 | macnewbold | oh, you're fine then |
| 20:47.53 | Lone_Wanderer | Hmm. Apparently Yum doesn't have php5 in the default respository thingie whatever. |
| 20:48.11 | beandog | php is super simple to compile by hand. |
| 20:48.34 | Lone_Wanderer | Yeah but if I do that it eliminates the ability to roll back easily. |
| 20:49.22 | jsmith | Lone_Wanderer: Which distro? |
| 20:49.26 | Lone_Wanderer | CentOS |
| 20:49.32 | jsmith | Lone_Wanderer: Check out the Centos-plus repo |
| 20:49.41 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm searching it now ;) |
| 20:49.56 | Lone_Wanderer | Ahh, there it is. |
| 20:50.05 | jsmith | yum --enablerepo=centosplus install php php-imap php-pgsql php-mysql, etc. |
| 20:51.32 | Lone_Wanderer | There we go, php 5! |
| 20:51.55 | thebigdog | grats!!! |
| 20:58.38 | *** join/#uphpu macnewbol1 (n=mac@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 20:58.38 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o macnewbol1] by ChanServ |
| 21:09.19 | *** join/#uphpu macnewbold (n=mac@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 21:09.19 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o macnewbold] by ChanServ |
| 21:30.45 | thebigdog | mac you around? |
| 21:31.44 | thebigdog | ~smack macnewbold ' |
| 21:31.46 | jbot | ACTION smacks macnewbold ' upside the head. |
| 21:32.12 | dataw0lf | tsk tsk |
| 21:32.15 | dataw0lf | http://fedoranews.org/cms/node/2320 |
| 21:35.42 | thebigdog | oh man...my fc1 is not supported |
| 21:36.03 | wps | ~fc1 |
| 21:36.36 | jsmith | Can't blame them really... Jesse can't do it all by himself, especially with his new job |
| 21:37.03 | timinator | ping macnewbold |
| 21:37.27 | thebigdog | ill just have to step up and do it then |
| 21:38.54 | macnewbold | pong timinator |
| 21:39.04 | macnewbold | ~smack thebigdog |
| 21:39.05 | jbot | ACTION smacks thebigdog upside the head. |
| 21:41.35 | dataw0lf | tierra: cashed that check, right? |
| 21:43.02 | dataw0lf | yea you did |
| 21:43.03 | dataw0lf | word |
| 21:51.47 | Lone_Wanderer | world |
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| 22:16.19 | tierra | dataw0lf: just put it in yesterday |
| 22:36.22 | dataw0lf | tierra: yea, logged on to WF to check |
| 22:36.28 | dataw0lf | tierra: crazyegg.com |
| 22:39.51 | optikal | dataw0lf: holy hawtness |
| 22:40.14 | dataw0lf | pretty slick |
| 22:40.38 | optikal | Thats what I'm starting to dig into a lot now.. user tracking and optimization |
| 22:40.50 | optikal | Have a web conference in the morning with Omniture |
| 22:42.15 | Lone_Wanderer | Can someone explain to me the purpose of a factory method? Why not just instantiate the class yourself? |
| 22:42.17 | dataw0lf | Tell me about it. I've gone through WebTrends, ClickTracks, and Urchin so far here |
| 22:43.01 | swb | Omniture looks slick, and they're a UT company |
| 22:43.46 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: to allow subclasses to pick which type to create |
| 22:44.04 | mindjuju | optikal, what do they price at? |
| 22:44.23 | mindjuju | i'm using google analytics right now (urchin) |
| 22:45.03 | optikal | mindjuju: $1000/mo |
| 22:45.13 | optikal | For starters |
| 22:45.33 | mindjuju | wow |
| 22:45.45 | optikal | Yeah, but look at their customer showcase: http://www.omniture.com/company/customers |
| 22:45.51 | optikal | Your jaw will drop |
| 22:45.57 | jsmith | Having worked for Omniture for a couple of years, I can proudly say their analytics rock! |
| 22:46.14 | optikal | jsmith: Good to know |
| 22:46.16 | optikal | Thanks~ |
| 22:46.20 | jsmith | No problem |
| 22:47.19 | mindjuju | wow, that's practically everybody |
| 22:47.33 | olds | we did some work for omniture |
| 22:47.35 | dataw0lf | well, a lot of bigname companies use WebTrends, and it sucks. |
| 22:48.32 | Lone_Wanderer | A lot of bigname companies use Windows for their servers. |
| 22:48.50 | swb | jsmith: past tense? |
| 22:49.00 | dataw0lf | I think he still works there |
| 22:49.13 | Lone_Wanderer | What game are the guys in Kristy's office watching? |
| 22:49.25 | mindjuju | jsmith? i thought he was a VOIP consultant |
| 22:49.38 | dataw0lf | he is |
| 22:49.47 | mindjuju | making bank, living on the gravy train, signing autographs on his book |
| 22:50.18 | swb | wow, that's awesome, I think Omniture is pretty cool, but too expensive for my company |
| 22:50.46 | mindjuju | yeah, same here. google analytics is pretty good for free |
| 22:51.01 | swb | :( |
| 22:51.10 | optikal | yeah.. some fun stuff ahead... we're also ordering a Google Mini server in a week or so |
| 22:51.17 | optikal | Looking forward to playing with that :) |
| 22:51.23 | mindjuju | that's cool! |
| 22:51.33 | mindjuju | are you still working for that company that does the cameras? |
| 22:51.40 | optikal | yeah |
| 22:51.54 | optikal | Wholesale video surveillance |
| 22:52.57 | dataw0lf | optikal fights terrarizts |
| 22:52.58 | Lone_Wanderer | For places that need a lot of video surveillance? |
| 22:53.12 | optikal | A lot, or a little. |
| 22:53.14 | Lone_Wanderer | Terrorists, and petty thieves. |
| 22:53.29 | optikal | Everything from cameras, completely hardware dvrs, time lapse kits, even eas |
| 22:53.37 | optikal | *complete |
| 22:54.22 | Lone_Wanderer | is a hardware DVR a thing, or is it an abbreviation for "driver"? |
| 22:54.27 | optikal | We've launched another site that deals more with burglar alarm systems and motion sensors too |
| 22:54.29 | Lone_Wanderer | and what's eas? and a time lapse kit? |
| 22:54.30 | optikal | DVR = Digital Video Recorder |
| 22:54.33 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh ok |
| 22:54.45 | optikal | EAS = Electronic Article Surveillance.. when things have those "electronic" tags that beep when you leave the store |
| 22:54.53 | Lone_Wanderer | k |
| 22:55.03 | dataw0lf | oh yea |
| 22:55.11 | dataw0lf | you got one of dem cd security removers? |
| 22:55.11 | Lone_Wanderer | can you give me a video that will show me who's walking around my cubicle so I can alt-tab quick when my boss is coming? |
| 22:55.34 | Lone_Wanderer | or can you give me a thing so that I can see, from my bedroom, if there's anyone directly outside? |
| 22:55.46 | Lone_Wanderer | not that I dart quickly into the bathroom naked EVERY day bt it's nice to know... |
| 22:56.17 | Lone_Wanderer | but* |
| 22:56.35 | optikal | dataw0lf: Not for cds |
| 22:57.55 | optikal | Lone_Wanderer: All you'd need is a single camera + software, and you could setup a motion event to trigger the focus of a specific application :) |
| 22:58.05 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 22:58.14 | dataw0lf | optikal: hey you got one of dem deactivator thingies, then? |
| 22:58.27 | Lone_Wanderer | DW wants someone to help him steal leather jackets. |
| 22:58.37 | dataw0lf | I wanna go on a rampage through Best Buy and steal everything possible, since they screwed me on my new TV |
| 22:58.42 | Lone_Wanderer | Just hijack a semi, dude. |
| 22:58.47 | dataw0lf | dude |
| 22:58.49 | dataw0lf | this isn't Heat |
| 22:58.57 | Lone_Wanderer | Heat? |
| 22:58.58 | dataw0lf | and I'm not Robert De Niro |
| 22:58.58 | optikal | http://www.security-kits.com/shop/Detatchers-Deactivators-p-1-c-43.html |
| 22:59.19 | Lone_Wanderer | Is Heat a movie? |
| 22:59.28 | dataw0lf | dude |
| 22:59.31 | dataw0lf | that's embarrassing |
| 22:59.37 | dataw0lf | Heat is the greatest robber movie ever |
| 22:59.41 | Lone_Wanderer | okay |
| 22:59.52 | Lone_Wanderer | if all it involves is hijacking a semi, I'm not terribly impressed so far |
| 23:00.00 | dataw0lf | dude |
| 23:00.06 | dataw0lf | greatest robber movie ever |
| 23:00.12 | dataw0lf | Al Pacino versus Robert De Niro |
| 23:02.13 | Lone_Wanderer | Okay those two guys are cool. |
| 23:02.23 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh wait - that's not the one where they steal gold, is it? |
| 23:02.31 | dataw0lf | no. |
| 23:02.38 | Lone_Wanderer | Okay 'cause that one wasn't very good. |
| 23:02.45 | Lone_Wanderer | And all the nice people died. |
| 23:03.04 | dataw0lf | http://imdb.com/title/tt0113277/ |
| 23:03.42 | Lone_Wanderer | ohhh, Natalie Portman |
| 23:04.01 | dataw0lf | yea, when she was real young |
| 23:04.57 | Lone_Wanderer | Fine, fine, I guess I'll see it. |
| 23:09.04 | macnewbold | is there anyone in here who would be interested in an easy, small, short-term contract job in Salt Lake City? A guy I know wants some help to set up some MSWord/MSExcel templates for him with his logo and stuff, for invoices and stuff. I just don't have time for it. |
| 23:10.45 | jsmith | mindjuju: Yes, I'm a VoIP consultant now... previously, I managed a team of sysadmins at Omniture |
| 23:13.26 | mindjuju | macnewbold does work with ms word and excel? |
| 23:13.34 | mindjuju | talk about coming out of the closet |
| 23:16.04 | macnewbold | did |
| 23:16.14 | macnewbold | I did some work for him long long ago, cause he's my brother's boss |
| 23:16.29 | macnewbold | this time I got up enough guts to tell him I just can't help right now |
| 23:19.27 | swb | has anyone used Podcast Maker? http://www.potionfactory.com/podcastmaker/ |
| 23:19.54 | Lone_Wanderer | The word "podcast" reminds me that I haven't checked Maddox lately. |
| 23:20.27 | Lone_Wanderer | Ehh, nothing new. |
| 23:20.43 | dataw0lf | darn |
| 23:20.47 | dataw0lf | swb: negative |
| 23:20.56 | timinator | same swb |
| 23:21.43 | swb | what I really want is something that will let me coordinate audio with slides... |
| 23:21.58 | jsmith | swb: If you find something along those lines, let me know |
| 23:22.09 | swb | this is nifty slideshow sharing, but no audio: http://www.slideshare.net/ |
| 23:22.14 | swb | pretty neat tho |
| 23:27.00 | Lone_Wanderer | Uh oh. Apparently php-mysql didn't get updated along with php. |
| 23:27.38 | swb | this looks the most promising so far: http://www.koingosw.com/products/slideshowmagic.php |
| 23:29.10 | swb | wps, u around? |
| 23:29.22 | Lone_Wanderer | Which is odd because there is an upgrade available... |
| 23:29.29 | wps | yes |
| 23:30.11 | swb | I was wondering about the video you shot during the database design meeting |
| 23:30.43 | macnewbold | Lone_Wanderer: you may need to find php-mysqli |
| 23:30.47 | macnewbold | it's the php5 thingy |
| 23:31.02 | Lone_Wanderer | oh right |
| 23:31.02 | wps | sorry, but it isn't going to happen |
| 23:31.07 | swb | I don't know if there's anything I can do to help... but I'm learning about podcasting |
| 23:31.15 | swb | np, was just curious |
| 23:31.20 | Lone_Wanderer | because php5 has mysql support bundled into it, right? |
| 23:31.33 | beandog | no I think they took it out |
| 23:31.43 | beandog | but, doesnt matter, you can still cram it back in easily enough. |
| 23:31.52 | beandog | That is, I meant to say, I think they disable it by default now. |
| 23:32.06 | Lone_Wanderer | Odd. |
| 23:32.10 | beandog | Which doesnt really matter, just one argument to flip *on* if youre compiling by hand. |
| 23:32.28 | beandog | Which Id assume if youre compiling by hand you know what you want in the first place. |
| 23:33.24 | wps | I tried to get it all done, but had a computer problem that made things messy and then gave up |
| 23:34.22 | wps | the problem is that I recorded it in HD and imported it in HD and therefore had massive file to work with since Mac couldn't stop talking ( :) ) and it turned out to be three and a half hours |
| 23:34.25 | Lone_Wanderer | php-mysql.i386 5.1.6-1.2.1.centos installed |
| 23:34.26 | swb | what software were you planning to use to create/convert the video? |
| 23:34.36 | swb | :) |
| 23:34.38 | Lone_Wanderer | Which you'd think would mean that it's, you know, installed. |
| 23:34.45 | wps | there is no need for it to be in HD if it is going to be distributed via the web |
| 23:34.56 | wps | so, next meeting, I'll record it in SD and give it another try |
| 23:35.20 | swb | wps: what software were you planning to use to create/convert the video? |
| 23:35.43 | wps | I used iMovie |
| 23:35.53 | swb | I should've figured |
| 23:35.53 | swb | neat |
| 23:36.07 | beandog | Lone_Wanderer: what v of mysql are you trying to connect to |
| 23:36.11 | wps | it rocks for small movies, but has a hard time with hours worth of footage |
| 23:36.13 | beandog | the newer ones probably require mysqli support |
| 23:36.40 | wps | I use that for small projects and After Effects for larger |
| 23:37.07 | Lone_Wanderer | 4 I believe, but that version of php-mysql matches the version of PHP that's installed. |
| 23:37.50 | beandog | oh yah |
| 23:37.54 | beandog | no |
| 23:37.59 | beandog | php-mysql.i386 5.1.6-1.2.1 |
| 23:38.03 | beandog | thats php 5.1.6 |
| 23:38.13 | swb | wps: can iMovie do slideshows with fine-tuned audio controls? |
| 23:38.23 | swb | do you ever convert short videos to flash? |
| 23:38.25 | wps | what do you mean by fine-tuned? |
| 23:38.40 | beandog | v1.2.1 of that lib |
| 23:38.40 | wps | iMovie can export to flash, but no I haven't done it before |
| 23:38.43 | Lone_Wanderer | Yes. Like I said, the version of php-mysql matches the version of PHP. |
| 23:38.43 | beandog | er, rpm |
| 23:38.47 | beandog | oh |
| 23:38.52 | beandog | I thought you meant matches the version of mysql. |
| 23:38.56 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh, no |
| 23:39.10 | Lone_Wanderer | mysql is 4.1.20 |
| 23:39.36 | Lone_Wanderer | And, incidentally, the --without-mysql has been set in my php installation |
| 23:40.30 | beandog | thats okay you can always load it as an external lib |
| 23:40.43 | swb | wps: I want to combine slides with audio and have audio snippets play in the appropriate slide |
| 23:40.47 | beandog | if its a php rpm, it would have been compiled without most everything anyway |
| 23:41.18 | swb | unfortunately, I'm in pc land :( |
| 23:41.45 | Lone_Wanderer | okay. it's also processing... well, take a look |
| 23:41.48 | Lone_Wanderer | http://www.voip-call.us/info.php |
| 23:42.16 | Lone_Wanderer | mysqli.ini, mysql.ini, and pdo_mysql.ini |
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| 23:44.14 | Lone_Wanderer | So it's set to load all of those libraries... but it doesn't seem to be regardless. |
| 23:44.54 | Lone_Wanderer | beandog: you load it externally by putting extension=mysql.so (or whatever it is) in the php.ini right? |
| 23:45.24 | wps | that's a piece of cake in iMovie |
| 23:45.34 | beandog | yah |
| 23:45.36 | beandog | or dl(mysql); |
| 23:45.43 | swb | figures, now I just need a mac |
| 23:45.47 | swb | ;) |
| 23:46.44 | Lone_Wanderer | dl(mysql) isn't making phpinfo() tell me anything more about mysql being available... |
| 23:46.51 | xilch|w | heya optikal, my cousin was super stoked |
| 23:47.00 | xilch|w | oops, wrong chan. :) |
| 23:47.06 | optikal | hahah |
| 23:47.08 | optikal | sweet ;) |
| 23:47.24 | synic | heh, that could have been worse than it was. |
| 23:47.47 | xilch|w | is mindjuju around? |
| 23:47.58 | beandog | mindjuju is watching Ewoks movies |
| 23:48.10 | optikal | hehe so true |
| 23:54.59 | beandog | anyone going to SCALE |
| 23:56.58 | beandog | http://www.socallinuxexpo.org/scale5x/ |
| 23:57.46 | dataw0lf | I'm going to OpenSolutions in NY |
| 23:58.17 | macnewbold | I'm going to php|tek in Chicago |
| 23:58.53 | dataw0lf | I'm going to the bathroom down the hall |
| 23:59.00 | dataw0lf | brb |