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| 01:12.59 | wps | mindjuju: I buy my stuff at Inkley's and Amazon |
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| 15:09.15 | dataw0lf | errrm |
| 15:09.22 | dataw0lf | worst christmas ever. |
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| 17:02.09 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: http://news.independent.co.uk./environment/article2099971.ece |
| 17:22.13 | PoeticIntensity | Datawolf: worst Christmas ever???? |
| 17:22.26 | PoeticIntensity | I'd definitely say it was one of my best. |
| 17:22.31 | PoeticIntensity | if not *the* best. |
| 17:22.52 | PoeticIntensity | ~lart dataw0lf |
| 17:23.02 | PoeticIntensity | :) |
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| 17:52.45 | dataw0lf | PoeticInt: oh. You must not had your flight delayed til the day after christmas (supposed to be christmas eve's morning), had Delta force you to check your carry-on and then lose it, and then find out your dog chewed up three gift certificates over 100 dollars each that were supposed to be presents. |
| 17:53.19 | dataw0lf | PoeticIntensity, rather. |
| 17:54.20 | PoeticIntensity | holy crap. |
| 17:54.31 | PoeticIntensity | my condolences, dataw0lf. |
| 17:54.33 | PoeticIntensity | dang... that sucks. |
| 17:55.55 | PoeticIntensity | I hope next year's is better. Seriously, man... If all of that happened to me - that would definitely be a great candidate for my "worst christmas ever" as well. |
| 17:56.01 | dataw0lf | oh, don't worry. I'm feeling better now, after spending two hours getting my car out of 2 feet of snow. |
| 17:56.19 | dataw0lf | I know, I spent Christmas in Afghanistan, and a Christmas in Iraq. this one is way worse. |
| 17:56.20 | PoeticIntensity | can't cut a break, eh'..... |
| 17:56.32 | PoeticIntensity | man alie. |
| 17:56.33 | PoeticIntensity | alive. |
| 17:56.43 | dataw0lf | I had fun in SLC though :) |
| 17:56.47 | PoeticIntensity | w00t! |
| 17:57.01 | PoeticIntensity | is php.net down? |
| 17:57.21 | tierra | http://us3.php.net/ |
| 17:58.27 | tierra | dataw0lf: that sucks, my condolences as well |
| 18:00.01 | dataw0lf | you get that check? |
| 18:00.17 | tierra | na, haven't seen optikal since Saturday |
| 18:00.37 | dataw0lf | tierra: yea, after I took a taxi from optikal's house, I got to the airport and found out my flight was delayed, and then cancelled. |
| 18:00.45 | dataw0lf | I just stayed at a hotel so I wouldn't have to put him out again. |
| 18:01.11 | dataw0lf | + got pretty trashed at Squatter's whilst waiting for the cancellation announcement. |
| 18:01.25 | tierra | heh |
| 18:03.14 | dataw0lf | tierra: http://stderr.ws, yea, or nay? |
| 18:04.02 | dataw0lf | how much is FDIC insure up to? 100k? |
| 18:04.07 | dataw0lf | s/is/does/ |
| 18:04.30 | tierra | hmmm... not sure on the color scheme, and the linked images could stand to lose the white border |
| 18:04.53 | dataw0lf | WHO ASKED YOU ANYWAYS?! |
| 18:04.54 | tierra | s/tried/tries |
| 18:05.00 | dataw0lf | yea, forgots about the images |
| 18:06.22 | tierra | http://kuler.adobe.com/ ... maybe it's usable now that it's not being digged or whatever |
| 18:08.21 | dataw0lf | danke |
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| 18:13.31 | *** join/#uphpu mgeary (n=mgeary@166.70.44.49) |
| 18:13.55 | mgeary | hi folks |
| 18:14.33 | dataw0lf | hidey ho |
| 18:16.02 | mgeary | Michael Geary here. Residing in Provo, working in Orem. Thought it was finally about time to connect with the group. (i normally spend my UG efforts running the Adobe Utah Director & Flash User Group) |
| 18:16.36 | tierra | hehe... speaking of Adobe... |
| 18:17.13 | dataw0lf | greatest colormixer EVAR! |
| 18:17.20 | dataw0lf | how's the look to you now? |
| 18:17.23 | dataw0lf | tierra ^^ |
| 18:17.35 | dataw0lf | little heavy on the gay-aquamarine side? |
| 18:17.37 | _psychic_ | Anyone know how much a t3/ds3 runs for these days? |
| 18:18.53 | dataw0lf | varies widely. |
| 18:19.36 | _psychic_ | across what range? ;) |
| 18:21.13 | mgeary | soooo... i don't suppose this list is full of experienced PHP-ers, who use Smarty, PHP5, and Classes extensively, is it? :D |
| 18:21.14 | tierra | yeah, that's better, though I think going with a light color for the menu category titles and toning down the body background color (maybe just switching the main bg with the content body bg) would look a little more appealing |
| 18:21.40 | _psychic_ | Smarty-- PHP5++ OOP++ |
| 18:21.49 | tierra | mgeary: minus Smarty, I like to think I know a good amount of the rest |
| 18:22.00 | dataw0lf | DS3, eh, over 800 prolly |
| 18:22.01 | mgeary | what do you guys use, if not Smarty? |
| 18:22.05 | dataw0lf | PHP. |
| 18:22.15 | _psychic_ | mvc framework |
| 18:22.50 | dataw0lf | tierra: good call on the changing main with bg. just use a light grey for bg? |
| 18:22.53 | tierra | hehe, there's tons of templating systems, though to be honest, they are really rarely necessary or helpful for most uses |
| 18:23.06 | dataw0lf | especially since PHP is basically a templating language in and of itself |
| 18:23.10 | _psychic_ | I disagree too. |
| 18:23.37 | _psychic_ | First, there's separation of logic and presentation, secondly, there's often some nice caching functionality built in to display engines. |
| 18:24.02 | mgeary | yeah. plus you can render to other languages (XML, etc.) with one source of biz/app logic |
| 18:24.13 | mgeary | but ANYway, i wasn't looking to come here and start a holy war |
| 18:24.33 | mgeary | just wanted to find people doing cool PHP stuff, so ideas could be exchanged |
| 18:25.08 | dataw0lf | You can separate logic and presentation without using a full blown templating system. |
| 18:25.08 | mgeary | umm, and find some folks with bandwidth to take on contract projects :D :D |
| 18:25.17 | dataw0lf | I mean, that's what PHP is all about. If you use it right. |
| 18:25.26 | dataw0lf | mgeary: What type of contracts? |
| 18:25.32 | tierra | also, there is a big difference in templates vs mvc |
| 18:25.42 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: so... you use your own system then. Your own system counts as a templating system. |
| 18:25.44 | mgeary | well, i don't want to clutter IRC with jobtalk |
| 18:25.46 | dataw0lf | gigantic difference. |
| 18:26.03 | mgeary | i'll post to the list and anyone interested can reply. but i wanted to make sure there are living souls here ;) |
| 18:26.19 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: I just separate logic from presentation. I don't use a 'templating system', I'm not that full of myself. I use PHP heredocs and includes(). |
| 18:26.45 | dataw0lf | mgeary: that's all this place is, is jobtalk. That, and global warming and evolution. |
| 18:27.00 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: Mmm. Talking about basically the same thing then. |
| 18:28.31 | _psychic_ | I don't like smarty because you have to learn a whole new language |
| 18:28.47 | mgeary | how much traffic does the general mailing list generate? |
| 18:29.55 | tierra | _psychic_: I've heard some praise for Savant over Smarty from friends who have looked into them |
| 18:30.12 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: I'm just saying that using a separate templating system is pretty much immaterial in a language such as PHP. That's like taking Python code and inserting Perl callbacks inside. It's ridiculous, because Python already provides functionality for what you're trying to do. |
| 18:30.49 | dataw0lf | mgeary: It's low volume. |
| 18:30.59 | dataw0lf | we'll go a couple days without a message, and then someone will bring up a thread that's of interest, and there'll be a flurry of 10-20 messages. |
| 18:31.17 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: Not if the system comes with something like caching. I agree with you - I think PHP does view logic fine all by itself, but Smarty (and others) often also cache. |
| 18:31.45 | dataw0lf | I can do caching without a templating system, PHP provides for that too. |
| 18:33.29 | dataw0lf | I'd be more open to the ideas of all these different frameworks in PHP, if PHP was conducive (sp?) to a framework. Unfortunately, it's not. |
| 18:33.29 | _psychic_ | Natively? |
| 18:33.34 | dataw0lf | yes, natively. |
| 18:33.39 | dataw0lf | what do you think output buffering is for? |
| 18:34.06 | dataw0lf | http://www.ilovejackdaniels.com/php/caching-output-in-php/ |
| 18:34.08 | dataw0lf | voila |
| 18:35.11 | _psychic_ | This shows you how to build a caching system |
| 18:35.28 | _psychic_ | That's like saying authentication is natively available to PHP. |
| 18:36.44 | dataw0lf | that's not 'building a cache system', c'mon. It's creating a hash (functions available in PHP) and then checking it via output buffering (also available in PHP) |
| 18:37.24 | tierra | same basic idea as building your authentication system on top of PHP sessions |
| 18:37.28 | _psychic_ | yeah |
| 18:37.28 | dataw0lf | I could say I "Created a RDBMS management system" when I write functions that sanitize strings for input. |
| 18:37.30 | _psychic_ | a system |
| 18:37.39 | _psychic_ | bunch of stuff that works together |
| 18:37.41 | _psychic_ | :) |
| 18:37.55 | dataw0lf | ok, well, on the definition of 'system', you got me. |
| 18:38.11 | tierra | and no different that building your site on top of Smarty or some other MVC... you have to implement your own stuff on top of the given libraries... what's "native" to you? |
| 18:38.19 | dataw0lf | However, why would I get a templating SYSTEM that provided a caching SYSTEM, when the functions are easily available in PHP? |
| 18:39.02 | dataw0lf | PHP provides all the functionality that a templating system does. It's either 1) PHP don't know how to use it or 2) People looooove complexity. 'Specially, uh, your generic PHP programmer. |
| 18:39.03 | _psychic_ | Why would you go and buy a car when the tools and materials are readily available on the open market? |
| 18:39.18 | dataw0lf | heh, no, bad analogy |
| 18:39.27 | tierra | because you already have the tools in your shop! |
| 18:39.32 | dataw0lf | why would you change your oil when you can get it done at some high priced, bloated place?! |
| 18:39.38 | tierra | they didn't cost you anything! |
| 18:39.47 | _psychic_ | Back up people |
| 18:40.12 | tierra | sorry, but your analogy was just horrible, I couldn't let you get away with that one |
| 18:40.15 | dataw0lf | or, here you go, here you go, DUDE WHY WOULD YOU TOTALLY BUILD YOUR OWN COMPUTER, YOU CAN GET ONE THATS SUPAR SWEET FROM GATEWAY DOOD |
| 18:40.19 | _psychic_ | You can use systems that have already been written rather than reinventing the wheel with your own untested code. |
| 18:40.31 | dataw0lf | you're not reinventing the wheel. |
| 18:40.35 | dataw0lf | You're just, uh, USING it |
| 18:41.00 | _psychic_ | If you copy it from that site you are. |
| 18:41.07 | _psychic_ | Not if you build your own using PHP functions., |
| 18:41.30 | dataw0lf | then I'm just getting the wheel slightly retreaded. |
| 18:41.34 | tierra | the php.net manual and comments include full examples... I don't get where you're going with this... |
| 18:42.03 | dataw0lf | the wheel is already there, I'm just adding some rimz, know wat I'm sayin'? |
| 18:42.21 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: you're shifting your argument then. " why would I get a templating SYSTEM that provided a caching SYSTEM, when the functions are easily available in PHP" |
| 18:42.31 | _psychic_ | Because its already built, that's why. |
| 18:42.44 | _psychic_ | And you can customize it when you get it, that's why. |
| 18:42.52 | dataw0lf | ok, what you're saying is, instead of using the wheel on my sedan, I should go out and get a monster truck wheel |
| 18:42.54 | _psychic_ | And because its tested already, that's why. |
| 18:43.00 | _psychic_ | No |
| 18:43.05 | dataw0lf | and then, go through the trouble of adding it to my car |
| 18:43.10 | dataw0lf | getting it to some how work |
| 18:43.22 | dataw0lf | when I coulda just added some rims and gotten the same hotness factor |
| 18:43.49 | dataw0lf | I bet that I can implement the same caching functionality in less time then you can get it working on an existing site from Smart. |
| 18:44.09 | _psychic_ | No, rather than vulcanizing your own rubber and smelting the ore, just go to the store and pick something off the shelf that is customizable and fits your needs. |
| 18:44.10 | dataw0lf | and I bet it, operationally and performance wise, works better. |
| 18:44.19 | dataw0lf | dude, that's a bad analogy. |
| 18:44.23 | dataw0lf | PHP is a web specific language |
| 18:44.34 | dataw0lf | It gives you all the tools to do the vast majority of stuff |
| 18:44.40 | dataw0lf | you just have to, y'know, pick em up and use em |
| 18:45.13 | _psychic_ | So writing all your own code is preferable to using well tested components from the community? |
| 18:45.22 | dataw0lf | Not at all. |
| 18:45.29 | dataw0lf | the tools in PHP are some of the best tested of all :) |
| 18:45.30 | _psychic_ | That's my point. |
| 18:45.37 | tierra | I just can't stand people who think they need a templating system or MVC framework for everything they write... it's completely unnecessary, you're just using it to use it, and it just builds more project dependancies making it less flexible and less stable to updates and changes. |
| 18:45.59 | dataw0lf | especially in PHP |
| 18:46.00 | _psychic_ | tierra: I've never experienced that personally. |
| 18:46.02 | _psychic_ | Ever. |
| 18:46.12 | dataw0lf | PHP.. is.. a.. web.. focused.. language. |
| 18:46.21 | dataw0lf | Now, a templating system in Perl, or Python makes a bit more sense. |
| 18:46.41 | dataw0lf | because you're going to want that for your web framework, since Python and Perl aren't web specific |
| 18:46.43 | _psychic_ | Neither have output buffering? ;) |
| 18:47.09 | dataw0lf | but when you have a language like PHP, that has been entirely focused on one area of development, chances are, if you grab some bloated framework, it's a mistake, because PHP provides what you need. |
| 18:47.24 | dataw0lf | except for ORM, but I don't support ORM in PHP anyways. |
| 18:48.25 | dataw0lf | woohoo! |
| 18:49.08 | dataw0lf | the PLAYMATE! woohoo! |
| 18:49.49 | *** join/#uphpu burnin (n=burnin@42dbe40e.dsl.aros.net) |
| 18:49.49 | dataw0lf | don't get me wrong. I'll support frameworks in PHP when they come up with exceptions and namespaces. |
| 18:50.17 | _psychic_ | or just PHP |
| 18:51.05 | dataw0lf | well, with namespaces and proper exceptions, a framework will benefit people a lot more. But I'll still be using PHP 4, so who am I kidding? |
| 18:51.12 | _psychic_ | ha |
| 18:51.47 | burnin | doesn't php5 support namespaces and exceptions? |
| 18:51.52 | tierra | phpBB has it's own templating system... you don't see them jumping for use of Smarty or any other templating system, it was easy enough for them to write their own that does what they want it to |
| 18:52.04 | tierra | and no on php5 namespaces, they're saving it for 6 |
| 18:52.30 | tierra | there's hacks out there to give similar functionality, but they're hacks |
| 18:53.21 | Black_Chaos | actually namespaces are looking like they might not make it into PHP6 |
| 18:53.52 | tierra | it annoys me that the transition to PHP6 is going to be just as horrible as the transition from PHP4 to PHP5 |
| 18:54.09 | tierra | Black_Chaos: news to me, last I heard it was planned for 6 |
| 18:54.14 | tierra | thanks |
| 18:54.25 | dataw0lf | HAHA THEY WON'T MAKE IT INTO SIX?? |
| 18:54.28 | dataw0lf | hahaha |
| 18:54.34 | dataw0lf | dude, all the PHP developers should be shot. |
| 18:55.03 | dataw0lf | burning: php 5 technically supports exceptions. But just for user defined structures, unfortunately. Which, y'know, kinda defeats the full point of exceptions. |
| 18:55.06 | Black_Chaos | its pretty hotly contended between the devs |
| 18:55.21 | dataw0lf | the PHP devs are idiots, seriously. |
| 18:55.31 | Black_Chaos | no joke |
| 18:55.40 | burnin | do templates like Smarty buy you much in productivity, considering you have to learn the templating system, and does it add much overhead to your app? |
| 18:56.31 | dataw0lf | burnin: man, you totally just missed our whole argument. |
| 18:56.46 | Black_Chaos | the PHP devs make it so people can write the worst code possible |
| 18:56.49 | burnin | yeah, I just dropped in and caught the tail end. |
| 18:56.57 | Utah_Dave | separating display from the logic has helped me speed up development, but trying to learn smarty and get it set up slowed me down a ton |
| 18:57.03 | dataw0lf | burnin: My opinion is that PHP provides you most of (if not all) the functionality you need for 'templating' |
| 18:57.27 | _psychic_ | burnin: Smarty is bad news |
| 18:57.28 | dataw0lf | Utah_Dave: true that, and have you had any real problems separating display from logic in 'native' PHp? |
| 18:57.37 | dataw0lf | s/PHp/PHP/ |
| 18:58.13 | Utah_Dave | you have to discipline yourself some, because it's really easy to let logic start creeping in |
| 18:58.15 | macnewbold | amen |
| 18:58.23 | burnin | I've been playing with codeigniter for the past few weeks, Utah_Dave introduced it to me, and having the existing framework to build from makes app development fast. |
| 18:58.32 | dataw0lf | Black_Chaos: well, not as bad as the Perl devs, but in general Perl programmers are a bit more skilled. |
| 18:58.39 | burnin | but that I suppose is very different from using a template. |
| 18:58.58 | _psychic_ | burnin: CI uses templates and separation |
| 18:59.15 | Utah_Dave | codeigniter doesn't use templates, unless you want to add it in |
| 18:59.32 | _psychic_ | views == templates |
| 18:59.35 | Utah_Dave | _psychic_: well, the view files are kind of like templates |
| 18:59.38 | _psychic_ | yeah |
| 18:59.39 | Utah_Dave | true |
| 18:59.47 | Utah_Dave | but it's just straight php |
| 18:59.50 | dataw0lf | codeigniter is actually ok, honestly. |
| 19:00.06 | Utah_Dave | with a few usefull convenience helpers thrown in |
| 19:00.07 | _psychic_ | its similar to cake |
| 19:00.42 | Utah_Dave | I'm working on an app in codeigniter as we speak! |
| 19:01.13 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: Really?! Does it do a cover of I Will Survive? |
| 19:01.33 | burnin | Utah_Dave, I finished implementing my class files in CI and uploaded the basic CI app to sourceforge. :) |
| 19:01.51 | Utah_Dave | burnin: cool. I'll have to go check it out. |
| 19:01.53 | burnin | Utah_Dave, its not a library yet, that will require some more changes to my code, I think. |
| 19:01.54 | Utah_Dave | phpgirder,right? |
| 19:01.58 | burnin | correct |
| 19:02.01 | dataw0lf | you guys doing some OSD? links plz |
| 19:02.27 | burnin | http://sourceforge.net/projects/phpgirder |
| 19:02.34 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: $this->doCover($songName);. And it caches the output using output buffers. Twice. |
| 19:02.44 | burnin | http://burnin.chaogenus.org/CI/ |
| 19:03.02 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: omgz sweet |
| 19:03.03 | burnin | I have an example setup that is using 4096 bit ssl keys for the data encryption. :) |
| 19:03.46 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: I thought you were going to say STARTTEMPLATE DO { PLAYTHISCOVER('external: IwillSurvive.mp3') ENDDO ENDTEMPLATE |
| 19:04.24 | burnin | dataw0lf, I take it that is some template syntax? |
| 19:04.31 | dataw0lf | just something ugly I made up |
| 19:04.51 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: there's always the convenience function c() which interfaces with your MP3 player (and your brain) and does the cover automagically. That might be the bloat you're referring to.... :/ |
| 19:05.38 | dataw0lf | Oh, yea, I tried that one, but phpCrappyTemplate needed 4gbs of libraries for it. |
| 19:07.19 | _psychic_ | 4Gb = 0.5 GB |
| 19:07.23 | _psychic_ | That's not real bad... |
| 19:07.24 | _psychic_ | ;P |
| 19:07.47 | dataw0lf | all you could come up with was a response based on my non caps 'gb' ? |
| 19:07.54 | dataw0lf | you can do better than that. |
| 19:08.09 | _psychic_ | Nuh uh! |
| 19:08.18 | _psychic_ | How's that? |
| 19:08.53 | dataw0lf | ti rof seirarbil fo sgb4 dedeen etalpmeTypparC tub ,eno taht I ,aey ,hO |
| 19:09.00 | dataw0lf | Oh, yea, I tried that one, but phpCrappyTemplate needed 4gbs of libraries for it. |
| 19:09.36 | Black_Chaos | you forgot the period on the first one |
| 19:09.57 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: Not if 3.9 GB of those libraries are Cake MP3z. |
| 19:10.05 | dataw0lf | periods don't exist in the parallel dimension that I had to enter, according to quantum physics, to rewind the conversation. |
| 19:10.12 | _psychic_ | Um... lossless mp3z.... :/ |
| 19:10.48 | dataw0lf | you're never, ever there. HEY! |
| 19:13.46 | dataw0lf | so apparently a video is making the rounds on YouTube containing the Knight Riots of 2000, and I have several cameos in it, but I can't find it. |
| 19:14.47 | dataw0lf | _psychic_, tierra, mindjuju, macnewbold: TAKE FORM OF YOUTUBE SEARCHBOTOCON, NOW! |
| 19:14.52 | macnewbold | what? |
| 19:14.58 | macnewbold | ~dwhit dataw0lf |
| 19:15.10 | jbot | ACTION leaps to Sunrise Claw of the Cruel Snake on dataw0lf |
| 19:15.10 | macnewbold | ~rlart |
| 19:15.13 | macnewbold | ~cake |
| 19:15.15 | jbot | methinks cake is all gone :( |
| 19:15.18 | dataw0lf | eek |
| 19:15.27 | macnewbold | ~confuse dataw0lf |
| 19:15.28 | jbot | no who are my gouda today ? |
| 19:15.32 | _psychic_ | wha? |
| 19:15.38 | macnewbold | ~confuse _psychic_ |
| 19:15.39 | jbot | yes where is my gouda tomorrow ? |
| 19:15.44 | macnewbold | ~confuse mindjuju |
| 19:15.46 | jbot | yes where are your gerbil tomorrow ? |
| 19:15.58 | dataw0lf | what're you doing _psychic_, you're the right arm of the YOUTUBE SEARCHBOTOCON, form up! jeez. |
| 19:16.15 | _psychic_ | Apologies. |
| 19:16.19 | dataw0lf | thnx |
| 19:22.42 | dataw0lf | did anyone else see that video of Joe Rogan exploding on some female heckler? After that, I'm having to watch Fear Factor now. |
| 19:24.38 | _psychic_ | Re: Global warming |
| 19:24.39 | _psychic_ | http://www.seanbonner.com/blog/archives/001857.php |
| 19:24.46 | _psychic_ | I think I've located the problem. |
| 19:26.31 | dataw0lf | carbon dioxide? yea, that's a big one. |
| 19:26.49 | _psychic_ | Lack of pirates, actually. |
| 19:27.48 | dataw0lf | hm, well, since I have a plan to become a pirate in 3 years, I guess I'm helping out the movement. |
| 19:28.07 | Lone_Wanderer | pirates? |
| 19:28.27 | Lone_Wanderer | BTW, way to call me back there DW. |
| 19:28.29 | Lone_Wanderer | :p |
| 19:28.38 | dataw0lf | dude |
| 19:28.39 | Lone_Wanderer | I think pirates have more fun. |
| 19:28.41 | dataw0lf | I soaked my phone in beer. |
| 19:28.42 | _psychic_ | Lone_Wanderer: Dwarf or Elf? |
| 19:28.48 | Lone_Wanderer | Are more jolly in general than ninjas. |
| 19:28.56 | Lone_Wanderer | Umm... I didn't know that I had to choose |
| 19:29.12 | Lone_Wanderer | it's cool DW, I went and saw a movie with a friend 'o mine |
| 19:29.32 | dataw0lf | sorry dude, we just sat at optikal's and got wasted anyways. |
| 19:29.43 | Lone_Wanderer | it's cool |
| 19:29.46 | dataw0lf | by the time everyone came I was about four million sheets to the wind |
| 19:29.50 | Lone_Wanderer | lol |
| 19:29.51 | _psychic_ | Lone_Wanderer: I thought you were referencing this, sorry. http://www.plasticbag.org/archives/2004/03/from_pirate_dwarves_to_ninja_elves/ |
| 19:30.09 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh, no, but I'll read it! |
| 19:30.13 | dataw0lf | pirates and ninjas are mortal enemies _psychic_ |
| 19:30.18 | Lone_Wanderer | by the way, Tsingtao officially wins. |
| 19:30.28 | _psychic_ | Its the most awesome personality profiler. |
| 19:30.35 | Lone_Wanderer | It doesn't just win, it *is* win. In a bottle. |
| 19:30.40 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: thus the banter |
| 19:30.47 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: beer? |
| 19:30.51 | Lone_Wanderer | yes |
| 19:31.15 | dataw0lf | it's all about the IPA |
| 19:31.30 | dataw0lf | '..elves more Apple-oriented' |
| 19:31.34 | dataw0lf | I KNEW elves were gay. |
| 19:31.34 | Lone_Wanderer | IPA? |
| 19:31.48 | _psychic_ | haha |
| 19:31.52 | dataw0lf | Squatter's India Pale Ale |
| 19:31.57 | dataw0lf | 6.0% |
| 19:31.59 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh, I'll have to try it |
| 19:32.08 | dataw0lf | the brewery is in SLC. |
| 19:32.12 | dataw0lf | great beer. |
| 19:32.13 | Lone_Wanderer | oh cool |
| 19:32.20 | Lone_Wanderer | I think I need to go back to grade school |
| 19:32.32 | dataw0lf | same guys who make Chasing Tail and Provo Girl. |
| 19:32.41 | Lone_Wanderer | and re-learn my sickness-meter or whatever it is |
| 19:32.57 | Lone_Wanderer | the part of your brain that says "You are now sick enough to be allowed to stay home" |
| 19:33.31 | Lone_Wanderer | Because right now it's set to "never". |
| 19:33.37 | dataw0lf | oh, yea, mine is set on 'Hemmoraghing Internally' |
| 19:33.44 | Lone_Wanderer | Coming down with ebola? THAT'S NO EXCUSE! |
| 19:34.10 | dataw0lf | 'WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU HAVE BLOOD POURING OUT OF YOUR EARS... YOU CAN STILL TYPE AND SEE A MONITOR, RIGHT?' |
| 19:34.20 | Lone_Wanderer | Exactly. |
| 19:34.40 | dataw0lf | nah, my company is cool. I just fill out a PTO form and I'm good. |
| 19:34.41 | Lone_Wanderer | "If you can sit up in bed to take a drink, you can sit up at work and type." |
| 19:35.36 | dataw0lf | I subscribe to the belief of "If you can sit in a seat without having to leave to vomit, apply a tourniquet, or shoot yourself with adrenaline, you should be at work" |
| 19:36.34 | dataw0lf | it's pretty easy. |
| 19:36.45 | dataw0lf | a stick and a length of cloth |
| 19:37.11 | Lone_Wanderer | and you... tie the stick to their severed limb? |
| 19:37.15 | dataw0lf | depends on the location if you want no finger, 1 finger, or 2 finger spacing between skin and cloth. |
| 19:37.31 | Lone_Wanderer | use the stick to twist the cloth tight? |
| 19:38.01 | dataw0lf | half knot, apply stick, full knot, twist stick |
| 19:38.31 | dataw0lf | knowing when to apply a tourniquet is really the one you gotta know |
| 19:39.33 | dataw0lf | if you got blood coming through a full pressure dressing, wanna do a tourniquet. |
| 19:39.40 | Lone_Wanderer | ok |
| 19:39.56 | dataw0lf | and obviously amputations and major trauma damage. |
| 19:40.23 | dataw0lf | worst wound to dress is abdominal. |
| 19:40.34 | dataw0lf | maybe a sucking chest wound, but once you get that down, it usually goes well. |
| 19:41.09 | Lone_Wanderer | with a sucking chest wound don't you just slap something airtight over it and get them to a hospital? |
| 19:41.33 | dataw0lf | take a piece of plastic (or cut a piece off of the field dressing wrapper, that works well), and tape down three sides |
| 19:41.40 | dataw0lf | (over the wound) |
| 19:41.43 | Lone_Wanderer | only three? |
| 19:41.46 | dataw0lf | so they can't breathe in through it, only out. |
| 19:41.47 | Lone_Wanderer | so it's a one-way seal? |
| 19:41.50 | dataw0lf | yar |
| 19:42.23 | dataw0lf | then, apply a dressing over it, fairly loosely, to minimize bleeding. |
| 19:47.58 | Lone_Wanderer | http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/02/01/nharry01.xml - Prince Harry going to Iraq |
| 20:37.47 | *** join/#uphpu macnewbold (n=mac@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 20:37.47 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o macnewbold] by ChanServ |
| 20:41.29 | Lone_Wanderer | hey mac |
| 20:41.50 | *** join/#uphpu gthornock (n=gthornoc@158.91.196.32) |
| 21:05.48 | *** join/#uphpu macnewbol1 (n=mac@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 21:05.48 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o macnewbol1] by ChanServ |
| 21:09.32 | macnewbol1 | argh |
| 21:09.39 | Lone_Wanderer | yarrrrr! |
| 21:12.43 | _psychic_ | ~lart macnewbold |
| 21:12.52 | Lone_Wanderer | what's contralto? |
| 21:12.58 | _psychic_ | lower alto |
| 21:13.06 | _psychic_ | same with contrabase |
| 21:13.08 | _psychic_ | suuuper low |
| 21:13.09 | Lone_Wanderer | I thought maybe it was an alto from Iran. |
| 21:35.06 | *** join/#uphpu macnewbol1 (n=mac@cg.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 21:35.06 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o macnewbol1] by ChanServ |
| 21:36.19 | macnewbold | ~contralto |
| 21:36.22 | macnewbold | ~wiki contralto |
| 21:36.45 | _psychic_ | blam |
| 21:37.34 | macnewbold | to finish the quote: The term is used to refer to the lowest female singing voice, or to a kind of male singing voice utilizing falsetto called a countertenor. |
| 21:46.31 | dataw0lf | I used to play a countertenorrist in CounterStrike. |
| 21:46.59 | Lone_Wanderer | rofl |
| 21:47.09 | Lone_Wanderer | only not really 'cause laughing makes me die |
| 21:50.27 | Lone_Wanderer | grr, why is this broken? |
| 21:53.10 | Lone_Wanderer | $result = mysql_query($sql, $did_conn) - should use $did_conn as the connection identifier, right? |
| 21:53.33 | Lone_Wanderer | Ohhh! I didn't flush privileges. Duh. |
| 21:55.33 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: Perforce. |
| 21:55.42 | Lone_Wanderer | perforce? |
| 21:56.04 | Lone_Wanderer | Okay the user has privileges on the DB in question and it's still not selecting that DB for some reason. |
| 21:56.05 | dataw0lf | source control |
| 21:56.08 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh ok |
| 21:56.10 | Lone_Wanderer | not subversion? |
| 21:56.24 | dataw0lf | Subversion is ok. But if you can afford Perforce, use it. |
| 21:56.30 | Lone_Wanderer | okay |
| 21:57.12 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh man. They could at least get a good looking guy for their home page. |
| 21:59.13 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: what are the main benefits over SVN? |
| 21:59.42 | Lone_Wanderer | Looks like it's the Photoshop to SVN's GAIM |
| 21:59.49 | _psychic_ | nm - found the PDF :) |
| 21:59.50 | _psychic_ | http://www.perforce.com/perforce/comparisons/perforce_subversion.pdf |
| 22:01.38 | dataw0lf | it's faster, changelists, merge tracking, branches versus tags, etc |
| 22:02.06 | dataw0lf | I can't think of any area where Subversion beats out Perforce except for being open source and Apache 2 integration. |
| 22:02.30 | _psychic_ | merge tracking? |
| 22:02.52 | _psychic_ | and you can use both branches and tags in SVN |
| 22:03.06 | Lone_Wanderer | I can select the DB from the command line with that user. |
| 22:03.50 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: yea, but there aren't too many differences between branches and tags in SVN. |
| 22:03.57 | dataw0lf | merge tracking is, well, tracking of merges. |
| 22:04.30 | _psychic_ | everytime you merge or commit.. that's tracked |
| 22:04.49 | dataw0lf | http://subversion.tigris.org/merge-tracking/ |
| 22:05.17 | Lone_Wanderer | SVN suxorz! |
| 22:05.30 | dataw0lf | I use SVN all the time. |
| 22:05.33 | dataw0lf | I like SVN. |
| 22:05.38 | dataw0lf | It just doesn't hold a candle to Perforce. |
| 22:05.51 | Lone_Wanderer | Way to ruin my fun. |
| 22:07.33 | fungus | Perforce is non-free. |
| 22:07.45 | dataw0lf | yea fungus, we know that. |
| 22:07.49 | Lone_Wanderer | Any idea how much it is? |
| 22:07.50 | dataw0lf | now go crawl back into your tree. |
| 22:08.01 | dataw0lf | under 20 users, 800 bucks per user, I think. |
| 22:08.06 | Lone_Wanderer | assuming timinator didn't chop it down |
| 22:08.12 | Lone_Wanderer | 800 per user? cripes |
| 22:08.18 | dataw0lf | yea, it's pretty expensive. |
| 22:08.35 | dataw0lf | it doesn't really make that much sense for such a small team, but, hey, you wanted the OPTIMAL solution |
| 22:08.38 | dataw0lf | ;) |
| 22:08.42 | Lone_Wanderer | well I can always bring it up. |
| 22:08.42 | _psychic_ | ouch |
| 22:08.44 | fungus | So use SVN or any of the other *Free* alternatives. |
| 22:08.50 | Utah_Dave | _psychic_: when you do a merge in SVN, it doesn't now that it's coming from another branch. It just thinks it's coming from your local copy |
| 22:08.53 | fungus | Arch, Bazaar, etc. |
| 22:08.56 | Lone_Wanderer | Free with a capital F. |
| 22:09.10 | dataw0lf | I'll give fungus an F... |
| 22:09.33 | Lone_Wanderer | That stands for Free and that rhymes with "G" and that stands for Trouble! |
| 22:09.43 | _psychic_ | hm |
| 22:09.49 | Lone_Wanderer | Right here in River City! |
| 22:10.25 | dataw0lf | fungus: Yea, until you get on to a large dev team. Then, y'know, they suck. |
| 22:10.28 | dataw0lf | free or not. |
| 22:10.36 | dataw0lf | you damn communist. |
| 22:10.41 | fungus | It doesn't matter. |
| 22:10.46 | fungus | I am not a communist. |
| 22:10.51 | fungus | I am a socialist. :) |
| 22:10.57 | dataw0lf | you're a hippie communist |
| 22:10.59 | Lone_Wanderer | Are you now or have you ever been a card-carrying member... |
| 22:11.03 | fungus | Freedom > features |
| 22:11.21 | dataw0lf | ha! tell that to my slave who sleeps in the guest room and gets free pizza! |
| 22:11.23 | dataw0lf | ... |
| 22:11.29 | dataw0lf | forget I mentioned him. |
| 22:12.38 | fungus | Ahh, dataw0lf has a slave boy. |
| 22:12.59 | *** part/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 22:14.35 | dataw0lf | yea, he was a hippie communist I captured in my back yard. I noticed a smell coming from under my deck, and lured him out with marijuana and cocoa puffs |
| 22:14.54 | Lone_Wanderer | I was wondering where my old roommate went. |
| 22:15.00 | dataw0lf | :D |
| 22:15.19 | dataw0lf | really, he's not a 'slave', since, y'know, he doesn't do anything. |
| 22:15.38 | dataw0lf | except for push GPL agendas and watch Aqua Teen Hunger Force |
| 22:15.54 | *** join/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 22:15.54 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o Utah_Dave] by ChanServ |
| 22:40.15 | olds | I ph34r the ninja launcher |
| 22:47.17 | Lone_Wanderer | Hmm... repeat a loop, or create an ugly hack? |
| 22:47.18 | com4 | oh man, ATHF == awesome |
| 22:47.26 | Lone_Wanderer | And now we know who DW's slave is ;) |
| 22:58.29 | dataw0lf | ATHF is quite possibly the worst show on TV. |
| 22:59.50 | olds | no no, House |
| 23:00.29 | Lone_Wanderer | Isn't House the one that said that incest is okay if you don't know they're your sibling? |
| 23:01.22 | dataw0lf | I <3 House |
| 23:01.48 | dataw0lf | http://www.crazyegg.com/ |
| 23:01.59 | _psychic_ | Is your love related to Lone_Wanderer's comment? |
| 23:02.01 | dataw0lf | Y'know, maybe I'm dumb or something, but is there a <sup> tag? |
| 23:02.09 | _psychic_ | yeah for superscript |
| 23:02.10 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: No. |
| 23:02.16 | _psychic_ | just checkin' ;) |
| 23:02.19 | dataw0lf | oh. |
| 23:02.22 | dataw0lf | I guess I am dumb. |
| 23:02.30 | Lone_Wanderer | Most of us are. |
| 23:02.45 | dataw0lf | yes, but I'm a deity, I'm not s'posed to be wrong. |
| 23:03.24 | _psychic_ | Technically, you never said you didn't think there was one. |
| 23:03.39 | _psychic_ | (in defense of existence) |
| 23:04.53 | dataw0lf | oh |
| 23:04.55 | dataw0lf | quite right |
| 23:05.18 | Lone_Wanderer | phew! universe saved by a technicality |
| 23:05.35 | dataw0lf | I feel like I've fallen into a Douglas Adams novel. |
| 23:05.38 | _psychic_ | Well, it was *my* technicality. |
| 23:05.41 | Lone_Wanderer | it's just like an episode of Star Trek, only we didn't have to reroute any power conduits, reconfigure the main deflector array, or run a Level Three diagnostic! |
| 23:06.14 | _psychic_ | That freaking deflector can do anything from nuking pop tarts to styling Warf's hair. |
| 23:07.00 | Lone_Wanderer | I could totally be a Starfleet captain. I have learned the Golden Triad. |
| 23:07.30 | _psychic_ | All you need to do now is completely ignore the promptings of any empathic staff member, and you'll go admiral. |
| 23:08.22 | dataw0lf | oh yea. Lone_Wanderer, whaddya think of this layout / color scheme: http://stderr.ws |
| 23:13.40 | Lone_Wanderer | I like it. Doesn't hurt my eyes. |
| 23:14.19 | Lone_Wanderer | Someone needs to make some sort of... I don't know, UI pattern or something |
| 23:14.31 | Lone_Wanderer | for free CSS... things |
| 23:14.45 | *** join/#uphpu gthornock (n=gthornoc@158.91.196.32) |
| 23:14.56 | Lone_Wanderer | there's lots of good free designs at OSWD but they don't all deal with the same elements |
| 23:15.43 | Lone_Wanderer | dataw0lf: on that design, I've got an "eternal scrollbar" at the bottom in Firefox 1.5.0.9 |
| 23:20.17 | Utah_Dave | dataw0lf: I clicked on the xhtml 1.0 check link and it said that there's a mismatch between the character encoding specified in the HTTP header and what's in the <meta> tag |
| 23:20.32 | Utah_Dave | utf-8 vs windows-1251 in the meta tag |
| 23:20.49 | Utah_Dave | wow, I sound really anal |
| 23:25.05 | Lone_Wanderer | You think you're anal? |
| 23:25.17 | Lone_Wanderer | I look at my generated HTML to make sure it all lines up properly. |
| 23:36.36 | dataw0lf | NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO |
| 23:36.53 | Lone_Wanderer | ? |
| 23:37.21 | PoeticIntensity | ! |
| 23:38.21 | dataw0lf | there. it validates now. |
| 23:38.29 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: you should totally upgrade then. |
| 23:44.16 | Utah_Dave | dataw0lf: now I can rest tonight. :) |
| 23:46.04 | dataw0lf | http://www.trailfire.com/ |
| 23:46.25 | dataw0lf | Utah_Dave: thank god. Otherwise, I would've had to hit you over the head with a large, heavy object. |
| 23:48.57 | Utah_Dave | dataw0lf: trailfire looks pretty cool |
| 23:49.39 | Lone_Wanderer | grrrr, this girl isn't answering the phone |
| 23:51.04 | Lone_Wanderer | oh, that's odd, I thought it'd update itself to the newest version |
| 23:52.05 | macnewbold | ~rlart |
| 23:52.10 | macnewbold | ~lart mindjuju |
| 23:53.17 | dataw0lf | Utah_Dave: yea, it's pretty slick |
| 23:55.27 | _psychic_ | http://www.mystickies.com/ |
| 23:55.56 | Lone_Wanderer | didn't one of the Wright Brothers do that? |
| 23:56.03 | _psychic_ | yep |
| 23:56.14 | _psychic_ | won the FF extensions contest a while back, too |
| 23:56.22 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |