| 01:38.08 | *** join/#uphpu jnbek (n=jnbek@c-24-10-178-17.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 01:39.56 | dataw0lf | on the new treo 700P |
| 02:00.42 | mindjuju | do you like it? |
| 03:25.23 | *** join/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@c-67-164-201-119.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
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| 05:03.49 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: pretty niceàinstalling python now |
| 05:04.10 | mindjuju | on the treo? |
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| 05:47.35 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: yup |
| 05:47.49 | mindjuju | that's cool, i didn't know you could do that |
| 06:27.16 | mindjuju | you still around dataw0lf ? |
| 06:29.05 | mindjuju | Let's say i have a bank of IP addresses for my server in the colo, a bank of IPs and a subnet mask of 255.255.255.240. K, let's further say that I don't program all the IPs to the server, I leave a few out, the subnet mask remains .240, right? |
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| 13:13.30 | timinator | morning guys |
| 13:25.25 | drip | good morning |
| 13:28.14 | *** join/#uphpu swb (n=designsi@70.98.111.41) |
| 13:28.23 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v swb] by ChanServ |
| 13:28.32 | timinator | hello swb |
| 13:28.40 | swb | morning |
| 13:28.43 | drip | mornin' on ya |
| 13:29.05 | swb | you guys are up early |
| 13:29.26 | drip | I try to get in by 6:30 |
| 13:29.56 | drip | otherwise I add a lot of time to my drive |
| 13:30.19 | swb | remind me where you work drip |
| 13:30.37 | swb | I'm up at Research Park at the U, I work at Myriad Genetics |
| 13:30.48 | drip | CHG Companies |
| 13:31.11 | drip | 40th S 7th E |
| 13:32.11 | swb | ah, that's right, a fellow healthcare industry web developer |
| 13:32.43 | drip | yar |
| 13:50.22 | swb | have you guys seen forms that use really large text in the form elements? (i.e. dictionary.com, WordPress login) |
| 13:51.22 | mindjuju | yup |
| 13:53.02 | swb | I have a feeling large text is a bit much for this form... but I'm messing around with the styles, what do you think? http://www.myriad.com/about/form-large-text.php |
| 13:53.26 | swb | original: http://www.myriad.com/about/form.php |
| 13:54.49 | drip | amen |
| 13:55.04 | drip | they can adjust their size if they want to. |
| 13:55.43 | mindjuju | yeah, i like the original one better |
| 13:59.26 | *** join/#uphpu jsmith_ (n=jsmith@h4605bcfe.area7.spcsdns.net) |
| 13:59.57 | swb | now.. if I can just fix the error handling after I've updated to accessible friendly labeling and the like... bleh |
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| 15:48.08 | timinator | bigdog_ut is in the house!!! |
| 16:06.24 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: regarding your question about subnets, yes, you can leave them out. At no time do you have to use all of the available IPs. |
| 16:06.48 | dataw0lf | anyone know if there's a way to increase the font size on TuSSH? |
| 16:08.11 | dataw0lf | nevermind, I'm an idiot |
| 16:08.16 | *** join/#uphpu jsmith (n=jsmith@h4605bcfe.area7.spcsdns.net) |
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| 16:09.44 | dataw0lf | jsmith: use any Palm devices. |
| 16:10.15 | jsmith | dataw0lf: Nope... I have a cell phone that runs the Symbian OS, which does everything I need |
| 16:12.41 | dataw0lf | dang. |
| 16:13.46 | jsmith | Why? |
| 16:14.05 | dataw0lf | just got some questions about my Treo |
| 16:14.51 | jsmith | Besides, I can run Python on my cell phone -- why would I want to buy a Treo? |
| 16:15.11 | dataw0lf | true dat. |
| 16:15.23 | dataw0lf | All I can find for PalmOS is pippy and it's old and 1.5.2 |
| 16:15.45 | dataw0lf | may have to use prc tools to build my own version of 2.5, which I'm not looking forward to. |
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| 16:28.44 | dataw0lf | screen + irssi is terrible on this ssh client |
| 16:29.37 | dataw0lf | maybe i need to change my term.. |
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| 17:06.18 | *** join/#uphpu Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@208-186-98-2.customer.csolutions.net) |
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| 17:07.40 | mindjuju | ~rlart |
| 17:07.52 | mindjuju | ~wiseguy jbot |
| 17:07.54 | jbot | ACTION runs up to jbot and pokes jbot in the eyes! |
| 17:08.01 | bigdog_ut | jbot that was the best |
| 17:08.12 | mindjuju | ~wiseguy bigdog_ut |
| 17:08.14 | jbot | ACTION runs up to bigdog_ut and pokes bigdog_ut in the eyes! |
| 17:08.27 | mindjuju | did we decide to push the date for the uphpu meet |
| 17:08.31 | mindjuju | couldn't tell from the emails |
| 17:08.33 | Lone_Wanderer | Should I throw this guy's resume out just for having Java on it? |
| 17:09.42 | bigdog_ut | no |
| 17:10.07 | mindjuju | was that no for the java question or no for the meet being rescheduled? |
| 17:10.08 | macnewbold | ~wiseguy bigdog_ut |
| 17:10.11 | jbot | ACTION runs up to bigdog_ut and pokes bigdog_ut in the eyes! |
| 17:10.17 | bigdog_ut | java |
| 17:10.50 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh, he's only a beginner in Java |
| 17:10.56 | Lone_Wanderer | hasn't had time to poison his mind too much yet |
| 17:11.04 | mindjuju | hey, doesn't everybody who went to the Geek Lunch this past time, get to give bigdog_ut a free punch on the arm? |
| 17:11.05 | bigdog_ut | pwfft |
| 17:11.51 | timinator | forget a punch in the arm |
| 17:11.55 | macnewbold | ~lart bigdog_ut |
| 17:11.58 | drip | no, I thought it was just decided that the next lunch was going to be grilled on his BBQ. |
| 17:12.01 | timinator | ~timattack bigdog_ut |
| 17:12.03 | jbot | ACTION uses a 2 handed log saw and starts to go postal on bigdog_ut! |
| 17:12.04 | dataw0lf | dont let any beginner programmer use java |
| 17:12.20 | bigdog_ut | dotn let any beginner programmer use php |
| 17:12.26 | dataw0lf | its a technical death sentence |
| 17:12.37 | dataw0lf | agreed bigdog |
| 17:12.41 | Lone_Wanderer | that's his skill level in java, not in programming in general |
| 17:13.28 | dataw0lf | talk to them for 30 minutes |
| 17:13.40 | mindjuju | have them take a test |
| 17:13.50 | Lone_Wanderer | Some people can talk really well but can't program |
| 17:13.57 | Lone_Wanderer | like me ;) |
| 17:14.19 | mindjuju | yup, but what you do for your rest, prior to interview, is say, write the code for this widget |
| 17:14.29 | dataw0lf | true but you can determine it to a reasonable level |
| 17:14.37 | Lone_Wanderer | say to them to write the code, and have them bring it in? |
| 17:14.45 | mindjuju | nope |
| 17:14.57 | Lone_Wanderer | I write it myself then? |
| 17:15.06 | mindjuju | when somebody comes in for one of my jobs, i have them fill out a small test |
| 17:15.15 | dataw0lf | no give em 20 minutes for a standard problem |
| 17:15.19 | dataw0lf | t |
| 17:15.29 | dataw0lf | dang treo |
| 17:15.59 | dataw0lf | have them parse asample log line or something |
| 17:16.05 | mindjuju | but give them a really wide problem like |
| 17:16.55 | dataw0lf | text parsing is a good sampling of skill and generic enough to suit any lang |
| 17:17.02 | mindjuju | you need to collect the name, address, phone number for the clients who are filling out a survey, survey has 10 questions |
| 17:17.22 | mindjuju | have them write the database schema and the form that collects and fires the data to database |
| 17:17.28 | mindjuju | true that, dw |
| 17:17.39 | dataw0lf | don't get lang specific on the problem |
| 17:18.05 | dataw0lf | youre testing programming skill not lang semantics |
| 17:18.39 | dataw0lf | just say use whatever lang you want |
| 17:19.02 | dataw0lf | and their choice of lang is telling as well |
| 17:19.13 | mindjuju | yup |
| 17:19.46 | dataw0lf | if they choose c give them a cookie and a boot to the arse |
| 17:20.49 | dataw0lf | perl commend them on their tool choice |
| 17:21.02 | mindjuju | hey dataw0lf, are you a big fan of Colin Powell? |
| 17:21.29 | dataw0lf | python give them your fealty cuz theyre uber cool |
| 17:21.32 | dataw0lf | etc |
| 17:21.50 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: nope not really |
| 17:22.27 | mindjuju | oh, just wondering. he gave some comments about exit strategy in Iraq, was wondering if you'd seen them or had a comment on it if you had |
| 17:22.39 | Lone_Wanderer | ambivalent? |
| 17:23.14 | dataw0lf | nope didnt see them but for powell its too little too late imho |
| 17:24.13 | dataw0lf | im on my treo i dont think a political argument is in my power right now |
| 17:24.51 | dataw0lf | id probably end up breaking it against the floor |
| 17:26.04 | dataw0lf | i think my girlfriend is jealous of it |
| 17:26.19 | Lone_Wanderer | of your treo? |
| 17:26.26 | dataw0lf | she understands why i asked her to drive |
| 17:26.29 | dataw0lf | yea |
| 17:27.30 | mindjuju | so macnewbold or wps, are we still hving the meet this month? |
| 17:27.41 | macnewbold | wps would know |
| 17:27.52 | dataw0lf | alright gents time see how well i can use vim on this thing |
| 17:28.02 | macnewbold | ~lart vim |
| 17:28.08 | macnewbold | ~asplode vim |
| 17:28.09 | jbot | vim head asplode, k thx |
| 17:28.17 | Lone_Wanderer | you don't like vim?? |
| 17:29.41 | wps | yes, the meeting is still on |
| 17:29.55 | mindjuju | k, just wonnerin' |
| 17:30.28 | *** topic/#UPHPU by wps -> meeting Thursday: parsing RSS |
| 17:30.42 | Lone_Wanderer | wps - I take it you want actual numbers for salary in the job posting? |
| 17:33.22 | wps | yes |
| 17:33.25 | Lone_Wanderer | k |
| 17:33.42 | Lone_Wanderer | They don't want to give any hard numbers :p |
| 17:41.55 | wps | that range is stupid though :) |
| 17:42.06 | wps | are they looking for a script kiddie out of high school or a professional? |
| 17:42.58 | Lone_Wanderer | I know. We're looking for a professional :p |
| 17:43.17 | dataw0lf | professional what now? |
| 17:43.37 | Lone_Wanderer | I just didn't want to put in any numbers that would get me in trouble if someone copied the email along with their resume. |
| 17:43.53 | Lone_Wanderer | A professional PHP developer. |
| 17:44.07 | dataw0lf | oh |
| 17:44.36 | dataw0lf | i saw script kiddie and was like ill audit your network |
| 17:44.42 | dataw0lf | again |
| 18:01.04 | Lone_Wanderer | two paper towels :p |
| 18:01.23 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm afraid that the water will wick up the paper towels and then drip down into place it's not meant to be |
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| 18:12.27 | Lone_Wanderer | Anyone know of a quick and easy wiki? |
| 18:13.29 | macnewbold | Lone_Wanderer: there are a bunch, but I don't konw all of them |
| 18:13.51 | Lone_Wanderer | Google lists a bunch of them but I'm not sure which are decent and which aren't. |
| 18:14.44 | mindjuju | get like the top 10 wikis from google and write them down, then google wikiname sploit |
| 18:14.52 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh, good plan |
| 18:14.54 | mindjuju | and the one that doesn't have many results is prolly the one to go with |
| 18:24.17 | swb | Lone_Wanderer, I think delicious is a good place to look for something like 'most popular wikis' |
| 18:24.21 | swb | http://del.icio.us/popular/wiki |
| 18:24.53 | mindjuju | that's too easy swb |
| 18:25.13 | swb | to easy? |
| 18:25.18 | mindjuju | too easy |
| 18:25.22 | swb | s/to/too |
| 18:25.37 | mindjuju | ;) |
| 18:26.02 | beandog | Any sedmasters around |
| 18:32.40 | macnewbold | beandog: I do the sed dance from time to time, what do you need? |
| 18:33.03 | beandog | macnewbold: preg_replace(array('/^(>|<=?)|=|~/', '/\*$/'), array('', '') |
| 18:33.04 | beandog | that in sed |
| 18:33.05 | beandog | :T |
| 18:33.42 | macnewbold | the quoting will be the hardest part |
| 18:33.51 | *** join/#uphpu herlo (n=herlo@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 18:33.52 | macnewbold | are you running it from a php script, or on the interactive cmdline |
| 18:33.58 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v herlo] by ChanServ |
| 18:34.03 | beandog | Well, thats php's equivalent right there |
| 18:34.11 | beandog | I got the 2nd one done |
| 18:34.21 | beandog | sed s/\*$//g |
| 18:34.24 | beandog | but I cant do the first one |
| 18:34.34 | beandog | I cant figure out how to do (foo|bar) |
| 18:34.43 | beandog | sed gives me a headache. |
| 18:35.25 | macnewbold | something like sed "s/^(>|<=?)|=|~//g" |
| 18:35.55 | beandog | yah, doesnt work. |
| 18:38.03 | macnewbold | might be a quoting thing |
| 18:38.09 | macnewbold | try single quotes instead of double quotes around it |
| 18:38.23 | macnewbold | what is it supposed to find? |
| 18:38.53 | beandog | uh |
| 18:39.08 | macnewbold | the way it is written now, it will find > or < or <= or = or ~ at the beginning of the line |
| 18:39.12 | beandog | right. |
| 18:39.14 | macnewbold | and replace it with nothing |
| 18:39.18 | beandog | thats what I need |
| 18:39.32 | Lone_Wanderer | gah, it requires php 5 or higher |
| 18:39.32 | macnewbold | okay |
| 18:39.35 | beandog | I suppose I could try something like \W{1,2} |
| 18:40.06 | macnewbold | beandog: did it work with sed 's/^(>|<=?)|=|~//g' ? |
| 18:40.22 | beandog | no, anytime I throw in () or | it stops working. |
| 18:40.26 | macnewbold | ah |
| 18:40.30 | macnewbold | try \( and \) then |
| 18:40.33 | macnewbold | and \| |
| 18:40.43 | macnewbold | or put it in single quotes instead of double quotes |
| 18:42.15 | beandog | oh man. |
| 18:42.17 | beandog | wtc. |
| 18:42.22 | beandog | So it needs some stuff escaped |
| 18:42.23 | beandog | but not all. |
| 18:42.29 | beandog | How is this consistent? |
| 18:42.36 | beandog | sed -e 's/^\(>\|<=?\)\|=\|~//g' |
| 18:42.55 | beandog | well, wait, even thats not working. |
| 18:44.27 | Lone_Wanderer | try sed -e 'lkasdfa3$@#@#)$(#' |
| 18:44.47 | Lone_Wanderer | (That's what it looks like to me, anyway.) |
| 18:45.02 | beandog | hee hee |
| 18:45.05 | beandog | Lone_Wanderer++ |
| 18:46.06 | beandog | Ok |
| 18:46.09 | beandog | I needed to escape the ? too |
| 18:46.12 | beandog | buh D: |
| 18:46.22 | beandog | and not the > or < |
| 18:49.09 | beandog | Ok |
| 18:49.14 | beandog | macnewbold: I got the first one working |
| 18:49.21 | beandog | is it even possible to run them both at once? |
| 18:49.22 | beandog | probably not. |
| 18:49.23 | beandog | :T |
| 18:51.30 | mindjuju | "it's the final countdown!" |
| 18:52.09 | macnewbold | beandog: yeah, you can run them both at once |
| 18:52.41 | macnewbold | sed 's/part1/part2/; s/other one/something else/; s/even three/four/;' |
| 18:52.52 | beandog | oh thats right. |
| 18:52.53 | beandog | duh. |
| 18:52.58 | beandog | Is there a way to write output to two files at once? |
| 18:53.18 | beandog | sed gave me a huge headache, now I cant think straight. :) |
| 18:54.19 | Lone_Wanderer | Just imagine if you were a Perl programmer. |
| 18:54.24 | Lone_Wanderer | You'd have a permanent migraine. |
| 18:54.46 | beandog | ah, n/m |
| 18:54.49 | beandog | yah, seriously. |
| 19:06.55 | *** join/#uphpu fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:250:8dff:fe71:9a6b) |
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| 19:10.33 | dataw0lf | Lone_Wanderer: and a constant yearning to be someone better |
| 19:10.40 | *** join/#uphpu burnin (n=burnin@42dbe40a.dsl.aros.net) |
| 19:11.21 | timinator | so, if I were to learn a new language, beyond PHP, what would it be? |
| 19:11.25 | Lone_Wanderer | I know a Perl hacker who'd flip out if you said that to him :D |
| 19:11.32 | burnin | c |
| 19:11.34 | Lone_Wanderer | timinator: what would you want to use it for? |
| 19:11.44 | Lone_Wanderer | I'd say C as well. Not C++ - just plain C. |
| 19:11.57 | timinator | I don't know... just want to expand my knowledge base |
| 19:11.59 | dataw0lf | timinator you know my answer |
| 19:12.05 | timinator | python? |
| 19:12.11 | dataw0lf | yup |
| 19:12.13 | Lone_Wanderer | The three answers I'd give are Lisp, C, and Python. |
| 19:12.34 | dataw0lf | learn a real high level lang then learn c |
| 19:12.43 | dataw0lf | nah not lisp |
| 19:12.51 | dataw0lf | def learn it |
| 19:12.53 | timinator | DW: so python then C? |
| 19:13.04 | dataw0lf | but not before python |
| 19:13.10 | Lone_Wanderer | Lisp is a good brain exercising language |
| 19:13.10 | dataw0lf | yup |
| 19:13.14 | timinator | LW: what's Lisp for? |
| 19:13.37 | beandog | yah |
| 19:13.37 | dataw0lf | sure it is but its hardly applicable for anything |
| 19:13.38 | beandog | C |
| 19:13.39 | Lone_Wanderer | it's a general-purpose high level language that hardly gets used for anything |
| 19:13.49 | Lone_Wanderer | because there are, in general, better languages |
| 19:13.57 | Lone_Wanderer | but going through the process of learning Lisp will make you a better programmer |
| 19:14.08 | beandog | If you already know php, whats the point of knowing *another* dynamic high level language? |
| 19:14.11 | timinator | beandog: not something like Python first? |
| 19:14.23 | dataw0lf | because the only people who use it are exp programmers and emacs users |
| 19:14.41 | Lone_Wanderer | because PHP, while it technically can do other things, is really best suited for web development |
| 19:14.57 | dataw0lf | any knowledge of c at this point will be wasted |
| 19:15.17 | Lone_Wanderer | You blaspheme against the god of tradition! |
| 19:15.19 | beandog | You could hack the kernel if you knew some C |
| 19:15.21 | beandog | :) |
| 19:15.24 | beandog | that'd be freeking awesome. |
| 19:15.27 | timinator | guys, I won't learn it traditionally... I buy an O'Reilly book and reverse engineer some free apps |
| 19:15.32 | dataw0lf | dude i learned c first |
| 19:15.38 | beandog | timinator: thats how I do it too. |
| 19:15.39 | Lone_Wanderer | I did too :p |
| 19:15.44 | timinator | k |
| 19:15.46 | dataw0lf | more than ten years ago |
| 19:15.46 | beandog | er, somewhat like that. |
| 19:15.50 | beandog | well, yah. |
| 19:15.52 | beandog | close enough. |
| 19:15.56 | dataw0lf | when it was still relevant |
| 19:15.57 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, technically I learned LogoWriter first. |
| 19:16.03 | dataw0lf | its like php |
| 19:16.04 | timinator | lol |
| 19:16.08 | dataw0lf | now |
| 19:16.13 | Lone_Wanderer | You don't think understanding how things work at a low level is relevant? |
| 19:16.14 | beandog | The only irrelevant language is ASP, and I cant believe how much that is still being used. |
| 19:16.20 | dataw0lf | not a general lang |
| 19:16.37 | Lone_Wanderer | Or am I making a false dichotomy? |
| 19:16.40 | beandog | timinator: just do some research, see what looks interesting and go for it |
| 19:16.50 | dataw0lf | c is irrelevant from any heneral area of computinh |
| 19:16.57 | beandog | And ignore dataw0lf ;) |
| 19:17.02 | dataw0lf | i use it all time |
| 19:17.07 | timinator | LOL |
| 19:17.30 | dataw0lf | to hack the kernel |
| 19:17.30 | dataw0lf | and python |
| 19:17.44 | Lone_Wanderer | Just learn C, Python, and Lisp if you feel like it. |
| 19:17.59 | dataw0lf | but id be lying if i said i used it much outside of said areas |
| 19:18.06 | dataw0lf | learn python |
| 19:18.13 | burnin | the majority of open source apps are written in c, by learning it you have a trove of hackable software. |
| 19:18.15 | dataw0lf | and ill mentor you |
| 19:18.31 | timinator | nice |
| 19:18.39 | Lone_Wanderer | Definitely learn Python. It's a language that you can get real, actual use out of. C and Lisp are valuable more for what you'll learn in the process than anything else. |
| 19:18.42 | Lone_Wanderer | Thus saith Dan. |
| 19:18.45 | dataw0lf | time to eat |
| 19:19.52 | Lone_Wanderer | What'd (s)he do to deserve the beating? |
| 19:20.22 | timinator | LOL.... rockstar: black label |
| 19:20.39 | drip | sang off key!!! |
| 19:23.21 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: Quick pgsql question for you, if you have a second |
| 19:26.10 | jsmith | OK, I'll throw it out for everyone. |
| 19:26.25 | jsmith | Let's say I have two tables: users and groups |
| 19:26.37 | Lone_Wanderer | bigdog_ut's time is up, now anyone can answer for double the points! |
| 19:26.49 | jsmith | I want the group_id column in the users table to reference the id column in the groups table as a foreign key. |
| 19:26.58 | jsmith | Pretty simple, right? |
| 19:26.59 | macnewbold | yes, you can do that |
| 19:27.00 | jsmith | Now for a twist. |
| 19:27.01 | macnewbold | yes |
| 19:27.25 | jsmith | I *also* want the group_id column in the users table to be able to be NULL, if they don't belong to a group. |
| 19:27.42 | jsmith | Which, as I understand it, should be pretty simple as well, but I can't get it to work. |
| 19:28.07 | macnewbold | does the group_id column allow nulls? Does the groups.id column allow nulls? |
| 19:28.57 | jsmith | Ah, it may not. |
| 19:29.33 | burnin | hmm, is it possible to have a foreign key restraint on a column and have it NULL? seems like that breaks the constraint rules. |
| 19:29.51 | jsmith | Hmmmn... groups.id is the primary key of the groups table, so I doubt it's allowed to be set to NULL |
| 19:29.53 | Lone_Wanderer | Just have a NULL group. |
| 19:30.11 | Lone_Wanderer | Add a group just like any other and name it "NULL" |
| 19:30.26 | Lone_Wanderer | Then make the group_id column default to that groups.id value. |
| 19:31.12 | Lone_Wanderer | I suspect that may be a hack, but I'm not really familiar with how a "real" database does things. That's how I'd do it in MySQL. |
| 19:31.31 | macnewbold | a string containing "NULL" is very different from a null value, as it should be |
| 19:31.38 | macnewbold | even an empty string is different from null |
| 19:31.59 | Lone_Wanderer | Well it sounds like what he really wants is a way to indicate that a user belongs to no groups. |
| 19:32.00 | macnewbold | jsmith: I'm not sure if there's a way to tell a foreign key that it only applies if it isn't null |
| 19:32.43 | Lone_Wanderer | And making the column accept NULL values just happens to be the solution he thought of first. |
| 19:32.46 | macnewbold | normally a foreign key constraint means "any value here must exist there too" - so you can't use null unless null is over there too |
| 19:33.11 | burnin | jsmith, what is the purpose of the foreign key constraint? if you want to allow null perhaps you don't want the constraint. |
| 19:33.16 | macnewbold | a null value is probably better in most ways than having a magical group that means no group |
| 19:33.17 | jsmith | But, one of the settings on foreign key contraints is "ON DELETE NULL" |
| 19:33.40 | macnewbold | then what error is it giving if you put a null value in the group_id column? |
| 19:33.43 | jsmith | burnin: The obvious -- to make sure that if a value exists in users.group_id, it's a valid group id |
| 19:33.56 | jsmith | macnewbold: Testing it how... hold on. |
| 19:34.31 | burnin | jsmith, then I'd go with Lone_Wanderer's suggestion, create a group for non-associated users and make it the default. |
| 19:34.40 | burnin | jsmith, that way your not trying to break the rules. |
| 19:35.51 | *** join/#uphpu cyco|w (n=cyco@66.114.120.2) |
| 19:35.58 | drip | was the column created as "not null"? |
| 19:36.22 | drip | they should be able to be null |
| 19:36.31 | drip | and only check the constraint when a value is entered. |
| 19:36.58 | drip | that is if the column was created as nullable. |
| 19:37.54 | drip | But groups and users sounds like something that you would probably want to have a many:many relationship on anyway. |
| 19:40.55 | jsmith | OK, I'm an idiot. |
| 19:41.35 | jsmith | I must have some other problem, as foreign keys can be NULL as long as the *referencing* column can be null, even if the *referenced* column is set to "NOT NULL". |
| 19:41.40 | jsmith | So I must have some other problem here. |
| 19:41.42 | jsmith | Hold please... |
| 19:42.50 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh wait... read that wrong. |
| 19:44.36 | *** join/#uphpu xilch|w (n=xilch@66.236.72.101.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 19:45.03 | jsmith | OK, I found my problem. |
| 19:45.09 | dataw0lf | jsmith: pastebin the schema |
| 19:45.13 | dataw0lf | ah |
| 19:45.45 | Lone_Wanderer | lol |
| 19:46.02 | burnin | jsmith, so did drip have the answer? |
| 19:46.02 | beandog | buh. |
| 19:46.05 | dataw0lf | blue moon mm |
| 19:46.10 | Lone_Wanderer | I've often thought that if I ever climbed Everest, I'd want to bring a sat phone and log into my favorite MUD from the summit. |
| 19:46.15 | beandog | So are there any (cheap) colocation facilities somewhere around here. |
| 19:46.25 | dataw0lf | omg you mud lw |
| 19:46.29 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah |
| 19:46.33 | Lone_Wanderer | on occasion anyway |
| 19:46.37 | jsmith | OK, so here was my problem... it would have worked, but the primary key on the groups table was a combination key (with two columns) |
| 19:46.43 | beandog | mm, I miss muds. |
| 19:46.51 | Lone_Wanderer | lensmoor.org:3500 |
| 19:46.57 | Lone_Wanderer | ;) |
| 19:47.28 | burnin | jsmith, doh |
| 19:47.42 | burnin | trick question, I guess we all missed it. |
| 19:47.59 | dataw0lf | dude i started hacking c when i was 13 on a diku based mud |
| 19:48.08 | jsmith | So, I can fix it two ways -- either redefine the primary key to be just the id column, or add a UNIQUE constraint on the id column |
| 19:48.09 | beandog | diku muds are the best. |
| 19:48.13 | burnin | but I learned something :) null can be entered in place of a foreign key |
| 19:48.32 | dataw0lf | i was a jr programmer on sojourn |
| 19:48.44 | jsmith | burnin: Yes ;-) |
| 19:49.12 | dataw0lf | then started known worlds rom deriv when i was 16 |
| 19:49.25 | Lone_Wanderer | I still want to run my own mud. |
| 19:49.27 | Lone_Wanderer | Someday (tm) |
| 19:49.43 | dataw0lf | got to number 3 on the mud connector im proud to say |
| 19:49.51 | Lone_Wanderer | nice |
| 19:50.10 | dataw0lf | lw wanna start one i can host and do most coding |
| 19:50.36 | Lone_Wanderer | Well, the point really is that it'd be a good chance to get some in-depth knowledge of C |
| 19:50.50 | dataw0lf | im apretty good builder too |
| 19:51.07 | Lone_Wanderer | Not that that makes me good at it |
| 19:51.33 | dataw0lf | im an excellent writer i just like coding more |
| 19:51.44 | dataw0lf | lets do it |
| 19:51.57 | dataw0lf | beandog you want a piece |
| 19:52.32 | dataw0lf | dang we could staff it right out of this channel |
| 19:52.38 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah we probably could |
| 19:52.45 | dataw0lf | tjats the hardest part |
| 19:52.46 | _psychic_ | I'd be up for helping if you wanted it (or cared). |
| 19:53.00 | Lone_Wanderer | what is, getting everyone to agree on what to do with it? |
| 19:53.10 | dataw0lf | dude lets do it guys |
| 19:53.23 | dataw0lf | thats the second hardest part |
| 19:53.32 | Lone_Wanderer | what's the hardest part? |
| 19:53.42 | dataw0lf | just getting capae staff is hardest |
| 19:53.44 | _psychic_ | you can fork an existing project |
| 19:53.50 | Lone_Wanderer | capae? |
| 19:53.51 | dataw0lf | capable |
| 19:54.00 | dataw0lf | im down with rom |
| 19:54.06 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh |
| 19:54.22 | dataw0lf | i know the codebase extremely well |
| 19:55.00 | dataw0lf | or tartarus |
| 19:55.16 | Lone_Wanderer | I dunno. What would the theme be? |
| 19:55.16 | dataw0lf | although olc is a pain with tart |
| 19:55.17 | _psychic_ | circleMUD |
| 19:55.31 | dataw0lf | i can do circle too |
| 19:56.06 | dataw0lf | i helped with 3.0 |
| 19:56.38 | dataw0lf | i prefer rom but really any diku deriv im down |
| 19:57.39 | Lone_Wanderer | I don't care what codebase we use |
| 19:59.40 | dataw0lf | what plans you have lw |
| 19:59.40 | Lone_Wanderer | but like I said, I've got a lot of weird ideas that would probably be more suited to small, experimental MUDs than one that's meant for serious long-term viability. |
| 19:59.40 | Lone_Wanderer | Well there are just some things I'd like to mess around with. |
| 19:59.41 | macnewbold | ~surprise dataw0lf |
| 19:59.43 | macnewbold | ~rlart |
| 19:59.45 | dataw0lf | and drinking doesnt help o course |
| 19:59.45 | Lone_Wanderer | Some economics things, player-created content, zones and quests and things that aren't static, and some really far-out stuff with magic that I haven't even categorized yet. |
| 19:59.49 | dataw0lf | well i have similar plans i do believe |
| 20:00.22 | dataw0lf | economy governtmental structur run by players |
| 20:00.24 | Lone_Wanderer | One thing I'd like to try is making a MUD that has a beginning and an end. It'd be online for, say, a year |
| 20:00.35 | Lone_Wanderer | (or however long it takes for one side to win) |
| 20:02.20 | dataw0lf | ive thought of this |
| 20:02.20 | dataw0lf | and we could create shards separate from the main mud |
| 20:02.20 | Lone_Wanderer | Maybe do a Lovecraft-type thing, with openers and closers |
| 20:02.21 | Lone_Wanderer | (openers trying to open the gate to Ctwhoever and closers trying to prevent it) |
| 20:02.21 | dataw0lf | lovecraft as in aaaah insane? |
| 20:02.22 | Lone_Wanderer | I dunno, I never read Lovecraft. |
| 20:02.22 | dataw0lf | love lovecraft |
| 20:02.22 | Lone_Wanderer | But Zelazny did a few takeoffs that used similar mythology. |
| 20:02.22 | Lone_Wanderer | A Night in the Lonesome October, specifically. |
| 20:02.25 | dataw0lf | hm |
| 20:02.36 | Lone_Wanderer | It's a good one to pick up and read in an afternoon. Almost a kids book. |
| 20:02.55 | dataw0lf | well id rather dev a groundbreaking mud over a popar one |
| 20:03.02 | dataw0lf | popular |
| 20:03.17 | Lone_Wanderer | The main character is Jack the Ripper but it never states that explicitly. It's told from the point of view of his dog. |
| 20:03.32 | dataw0lf | i can make a mud popular |
| 20:03.51 | dataw0lf | i got the ins in the community |
| 20:03.59 | Lone_Wanderer | cool |
| 20:04.05 | Lone_Wanderer | have you ever heard of Lensmoor? |
| 20:04.13 | dataw0lf | time to talk to this bartender |
| 20:04.24 | dataw0lf | yea but bbiab |
| 20:10.59 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: so you really gonna do a muc? |
| 20:11.01 | _psychic_ | *mud |
| 20:13.54 | *** join/#uphpu bradym (n=bradym@bradym.agsci.usu.edu) |
| 20:16.40 | Lone_Wanderer | It sounds like he probably is. |
| 20:16.50 | Lone_Wanderer | I guess I've been needing something to do with my time. |
| 20:19.10 | _psychic_ | I used to play some |
| 20:19.15 | _psychic_ | And it would be fun to pick up again |
| 20:19.23 | _psychic_ | Specially if you have some sway in how it works. |
| 20:29.23 | Lone_Wanderer | ohh, it's 1:30 |
| 20:29.25 | Lone_Wanderer | time for lunch |
| 20:55.51 | dataw0lf | time to go watch borat |
| 21:02.20 | *** join/#uphpu herlo (n=herlo@hq-nat2.gurulabs.com) |
| 21:02.27 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v herlo] by ChanServ |
| 21:08.30 | bigdog_ut | jsmith, did you get your answer? |
| 21:16.53 | Lone_Wanderer | great, I'm almost out of disk space again |
| 21:24.08 | mindjuju | ~rlart |
| 21:24.17 | mindjuju | ~poo jbot |
| 21:24.19 | jbot | ACTION summons a troop of flying monkeys to fling their poo at jbot |
| 21:24.25 | _psychic_ | ~lart mindjuju |
| 21:24.36 | mindjuju | ~timattack _psychic_ |
| 21:24.37 | jbot | ACTION uses a 2 handed log saw and starts to chase _psychic_! |
| 21:24.56 | Lone_Wanderer | ~defend Lone_Wanderer |
| 21:24.58 | jbot | ACTION jumps in front of Lone_Wanderer, taking all insults, violence and anything else negative thrown toward Lone_Wanderer so that Lone_Wanderer may live on in peace and quiet |
| 21:25.06 | Lone_Wanderer | Hah. |
| 21:25.23 | _psychic_ | What if we pester you with compliments? |
| 21:25.31 | mindjuju | ~dhit _psychic_ |
| 21:25.32 | jbot | ACTION performs Dog Collar of the Heavens on _psychic_ |
| 21:25.39 | _psychic_ | ~bdhit mindjuju |
| 21:25.41 | jbot | ACTION slaps the diviner's tin avalanche on mindjuju |
| 21:25.42 | Lone_Wanderer | Weird, I need to quit chatzilla in order to uninstall Apache. |
| 21:25.49 | Lone_Wanderer | oh well, brb |
| 21:25.50 | macnewbold | haha |
| 21:26.01 | mindjuju | ~macattack _psychic_ |
| 21:26.03 | jbot | ACTION jumps on bell rope, causing bell to hit _psychic_! |
| 21:26.15 | _psychic_ | Weak. |
| 21:26.22 | macnewbold | definitely |
| 21:26.27 | mindjuju | yeah that was pretty weak |
| 21:26.29 | macnewbold | not a worthy attack |
| 21:26.32 | mindjuju | ~chuck |
| 21:26.34 | jbot | i guess chuck is the freebsd daemon |
| 21:26.43 | mindjuju | ~chucknorris |
| 21:26.44 | jbot | Chuck Norris moves at two speeds: Walk and kill. |
| 21:26.48 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: Yes, I got my answer. |
| 21:27.01 | mindjuju | ~chucknorris |
| 21:27.03 | jbot | Chuck Norris moves at two speeds: Walk and kill. |
| 21:27.34 | mindjuju | ~chucknorris |
| 21:27.36 | jbot | Chuck Norris moves at two speeds: Walk and kill. |
| 21:27.46 | mindjuju | what the heck! i put in like 20 |
| 21:27.58 | macnewbold | ~noris |
| 21:28.00 | macnewbold | ~norris |
| 21:28.03 | macnewbold | ~boris |
| 21:28.04 | jbot | well, boris is not going to sit and write software i am not interested in, in boris's spare time, to make people happy |
| 21:28.06 | macnewbold | ~natasha |
| 21:28.25 | macnewbold | ~rocky |
| 21:28.27 | jbot | somebody said rocky was MarkNovak without the zaurii |
| 21:28.28 | macnewbold | ~bullwinkle |
| 21:28.59 | mindjuju | ~nosepick _psychic_ |
| 21:29.00 | jbot | ACTION plucks _psychic_ out of the nose of humanity and wipes him on the couch! |
| 21:29.36 | _psychic_ | What, pray-tell, is the "nose of humanity?" |
| 21:29.55 | bradym | lol |
| 21:31.15 | mindjuju | imagine all of humanity as a whole, well you'd be the green stuff in the representation's nose |
| 21:31.36 | mindjuju | except that you got wiped on the couch |
| 21:32.14 | *** join/#uphpu Lone_Wanderer (n=chatzill@208-186-98-2.customer.csolutions.net) |
| 21:32.14 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v Lone_Wanderer] by ChanServ |
| 21:32.27 | Lone_Wanderer | Has anyone heard of Maxima? |
| 21:32.29 | Lone_Wanderer | Seems to be some sort of math thing. |
| 21:32.47 | _psychic_ | mindjuju: Leading out with lame attacks and following up with overly metaphorical ones isn't going to win you this battle, my friend. |
| 21:33.20 | mindjuju | ~porkchop _psychic_ |
| 21:33.22 | jbot | ACTION spits on a porkchop and feeds it to _psychic_ Eat up! |
| 21:33.31 | Lone_Wanderer | carl: The dude doesnt want to meet you because your incredibly chiseled jaw and other stunning features make him feel incompetant and intimidated. |
| 21:34.40 | Lone_Wanderer | Woah, I've still got Ruby installed. |
| 21:39.03 | mindjuju | similar to the one that you see on street fighter with that sumo wrestler |
| 21:39.12 | _psychic_ | E. Honda |
| 21:39.18 | _psychic_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:39.19 | mindjuju | yeah, that's the dude |
| 21:40.50 | Lone_Wanderer | Flatulence most foul! |
| 21:41.50 | mindjuju | too funny. i gotta finish up 2 quick projects and then i'll come back and spar some mar |
| 21:41.55 | mindjuju | more, even! |
| 21:42.16 | _psychic_ | truce for now |
| 22:05.21 | beandog | Ok |
| 22:05.24 | beandog | any networking gurus here |
| 22:05.40 | jsmith | For about 30 seconds... what's your question? |
| 22:06.06 | beandog | How do I get passive ftp working. :T |
| 22:06.57 | _psychic_ | server or client? |
| 22:06.59 | beandog | I cant understand this stuff |
| 22:07.04 | beandog | well Im running the server |
| 22:07.05 | jsmith | Behind a firewall? |
| 22:07.09 | beandog | Ive got ports 20 and 21 forwarding |
| 22:07.10 | beandog | yah |
| 22:07.26 | beandog | But from what Ive read, I need to open some other ports for passive transfer to work as well |
| 22:07.31 | beandog | I think / guess |
| 22:07.43 | jsmith | You need a stateful firewall that keeps track of FTP sessions |
| 22:08.56 | beandog | see, you lost me already. |
| 22:12.58 | bradym | a stateful firewall keeps track network connections ( as opposed to stateless firewalls which just pass data along or reject based on roles - once the rule is met the firewall doesn't care about it anymore) |
| 22:13.04 | bradym | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stateful_firewall |
| 22:17.28 | Lone_Wanderer | ~lart uml |
| 22:17.40 | bradym | wish i could offer more help on the ftp side, but i don't use ftp |
| 22:17.56 | beandog | Hmm |
| 22:18.05 | beandog | I just need to find a simple gui firewall that lets me set ranges. |
| 22:18.22 | bigdog_ut | beandog what do you want to do? |
| 22:18.31 | *** join/#uphpu brasto (n=brasto@fw.oremut02.us.wh.verio.net) |
| 22:18.31 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v brasto] by ChanServ |
| 22:18.35 | beandog | basically forward ports 50k to 51k |
| 22:18.36 | beandog | :T |
| 22:18.50 | beandog | for passive transfer |
| 22:19.10 | bradym | this page looks promising: http://www.cyberciti.biz/tips/how-do-i-use-iptables-connection-tracking-feature.html |
| 22:19.34 | bigdog_ut | beandog, for your ftp server? |
| 22:19.37 | beandog | yah |
| 22:19.51 | bigdog_ut | beandog cant you do that in the ftp configuration |
| 22:20.05 | beandog | bigdog_ut: I can specify the ports to use, yes |
| 22:20.10 | beandog | But the router is running suse |
| 22:20.21 | beandog | and the gui isn't that specific. |
| 22:20.27 | beandog | And I suck at iptables. |
| 22:20.50 | bigdog_ut | oh..so you want a gui firewall configuration utility? |
| 22:21.17 | beandog | bigdog_ut: well, what I *think* I need to fix my FTP server issues is to forward the passive firewall ports to the FTP server running behind the firewall |
| 22:21.29 | beandog | So, if I could find a good firewall GUI that'd just let me do that, Id be happy, and I could test that theory. |
| 22:32.43 | Lone_Wanderer | "Let's configure the back end in javascript to support the mysql so the program will run smoothly." |
| 22:33.00 | bigdog_ut | sounds good |
| 22:33.02 | bradym | lol |
| 22:33.11 | bigdog_ut | im all for it |
| 22:33.26 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm training my friend to be a programmer. |
| 22:33.45 | Lone_Wanderer | She's got the "throwing together random buzzwords" part down pretty well. |
| 22:33.53 | bigdog_ut | yep |
| 22:34.28 | bradym | definitely |
| 22:39.35 | Lone_Wanderer | Hmm, Dave_Utah (I think that's his name) is not here. |
| 22:39.43 | Lone_Wanderer | ~seen Dave_Utah |
| 22:40.01 | jbot | Lone_Wanderer: i haven't seen 'dave_utah' |
| 22:40.01 | beandog | Utah_Dave? |
| 22:40.02 | Lone_Wanderer | ~seen Utah_Dave |
| 22:40.07 | jbot | utah_dave is currently on #uphpu (6h 23m 59s), last said: 'the book isn't about immigration per se, but later on in the book it talks about Israel's immigration policy and how it helped strengthen them. I found it very persuasive'. |
| 22:40.07 | Lone_Wanderer | Oh look there he is. |
| 22:40.33 | Lone_Wanderer | ping Utah_Dave - the job we talked about has been posted |
| 22:40.45 | bigdog_ut | ~ping Utah_Dave |
| 22:40.47 | jbot | pong Utah_Dave |
| 22:41.16 | beandog | heh |
| 22:43.35 | herlo | bigdog_ut: Utah_Dave has been challenging for me to get a hold of as well |
| 22:43.58 | bigdog_ut | he is a slacker |
| 22:44.11 | bigdog_ut | Lone_Wanderer i dont think he deserves a job :) |
| 22:44.22 | Lone_Wanderer | He'd fit in perfectly here! |
| 22:44.30 | Lone_Wanderer | I mean... heavens no, we don't want to hire another slacker. |
| 22:44.31 | bigdog_ut | 4? |
| 22:44.41 | Lone_Wanderer | I mean any slackers. |
| 22:44.59 | Lone_Wanderer | is that an abbreviation for "for"? |
| 22:45.59 | bigdog_ut | Lone_Wanderer you work for IPTelesis? |
| 22:46.05 | Lone_Wanderer | I do work for them, yes. |
| 22:46.13 | Lone_Wanderer | Are you familiar with that company? |
| 22:46.30 | bigdog_ut | no...but we might be looking for some voip |
| 22:46.50 | bigdog_ut | jsmith will be setting up asterisk for us and we need voip for that |
| 22:46.59 | Lone_Wanderer | ahh, cool |
| 22:47.26 | Lone_Wanderer | I don't actually know much about what we provide. I think if you're using asterisk then you wouldn't want to use us. |
| 22:47.41 | Lone_Wanderer | 'cause then you'd be paying for stuff you wouldn't be using |
| 22:47.43 | bigdog_ut | aterisk is the phone system |
| 22:47.55 | bigdog_ut | we still need voip to handle the actual calls |
| 22:47.58 | Lone_Wanderer | I think. Maybe. I don't actually know that much about VoIP. |
| 22:48.49 | Lone_Wanderer | I'm just working on their billing system now. |
| 22:49.23 | bigdog_ut | np |
| 22:49.38 | bigdog_ut | so you are a fulltime emp then? |
| 22:49.40 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah |
| 22:51.56 | Lone_Wanderer | The real problem is that I spend half my time agape at the stupidity of the system I'm working with. |
| 23:41.07 | beandog | 102 days of uptime |
| 23:41.09 | beandog | I love linux. |
| 23:41.28 | beandog | my desktop has 91 days, heh |
| 23:41.32 | beandog | 8) |
| 23:45.44 | Lone_Wanderer | My brain has about 16 hours and it's starting to complain already. |
| 23:46.02 | beandog | heh |
| 23:46.05 | Lone_Wanderer | actually... only about 10. |
| 23:46.29 | fungus | 1298 days of uptime |
| 23:46.32 | fungus | I love FreeBSD |
| 23:46.45 | beandog | that is sweet |
| 23:47.12 | Lone_Wanderer | does Borat have any nudity in it? |