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| 00:01.46 | bradym | anyone know why mysql would give an unknown column error when the column is actually there and the table is listed in the from section of the query like it should be? |
| 00:02.51 | brasto | bradym, i'll be back and forth from my desk, but if you paste the statement, i may be able to help you. |
| 00:03.26 | _psychic_ | bradym: what's the query? |
| 00:03.35 | dataw0lf | bradym: JOIN statement? |
| 00:05.31 | brasto | bradym - the entire SELECT statement |
| 00:05.43 | bradym | it's a nice long statement, so i posted it at http://utah4h.org/~bradym/sql.txt |
| 00:05.55 | dataw0lf | what version of MySQL? |
| 00:05.58 | bradym | dw: the er |
| 00:06.17 | bradym | ack - the error is in the join statement, says Unknown column 'c.access' in 'on clause' |
| 00:06.34 | dataw0lf | yea, MySQL 5, I know what the problem is |
| 00:06.42 | bradym | 5.0.22 |
| 00:06.44 | dataw0lf | one sec, I'll rewrite the statement and explain |
| 00:07.13 | bradym | cool, thanks :) |
| 00:08.03 | dataw0lf | http://stderr.ws/sql.txt |
| 00:08.15 | dataw0lf | try that, tell me if it works, if it does, I'll tell you what happened. |
| 00:08.53 | dataw0lf | well, I know it'll work, so I'll just explain while I'm waiting on your response ;) |
| 00:09.06 | bradym | actually, it did work ;) |
| 00:09.20 | dataw0lf | MySQL 5 has a known bug where, when using JOINs, if you join tables with commas, it will throw that error |
| 00:09.31 | dataw0lf | The solution is to replace the commas with JOINs |
| 00:10.24 | bradym | that's strange.. |
| 00:10.28 | dataw0lf | yup. |
| 00:10.31 | bradym | i never would have figured that one out |
| 00:10.35 | bradym | thanks for your help :) |
| 00:10.43 | dataw0lf | no problem bro, glad to be of service |
| 00:10.55 | dataw0lf | trust me, I chewed on that one for an hour or so when I ran into it ;) |
| 00:12.50 | dataw0lf | bradym: you looking for employment in January 2007 (just checked your page out) ? |
| 00:13.37 | bradym | sure am |
| 00:14.10 | dataw0lf | http://uphpu.org/pipermail/uphpu-jobs/2006-December/000079.html |
| 00:14.14 | dataw0lf | Let me know if you're interested. |
| 00:15.21 | bradym | sounds pretty cool |
| 00:15.42 | dataw0lf | if you're willing to move to Reno, it's a great opportunity. |
| 00:16.55 | bradym | i'm definitely willing to move, in fact, my goal is to get out of Utah :) |
| 00:17.26 | brasto | dataw0lf - i may be interested in that as well |
| 00:17.48 | bradym | I've never even thought about moving to Reno - that could be interesting |
| 00:17.59 | brasto | I have code samples - which I'll update soon - here: http://mscis.org |
| 00:18.03 | dataw0lf | well, send me your guys' resumes in doc format, if you'd be so kind. |
| 00:18.32 | brasto | http://mscis.org/?module=fatcat&fatcat[user]=viewCategory&fatcat_id=81&module_title=pagemaster |
| 00:18.46 | dataw0lf | coolio |
| 00:19.57 | brasto | my resume needs updating before i get it into word format, but: http://res.mscis.org |
| 00:20.26 | dataw0lf | server unreachable. |
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| 00:24.02 | brasto | dataw0lf - a friend of mine must have shut down that server without letting me know i'll move that to another server in the next day or so. |
| 00:24.31 | brasto | google might have a cached copy |
| 00:24.31 | dataw0lf | coolio. Just send it to me in doc format when you get a chance. |
| 00:24.57 | brasto | k. i would like to get a few more details from you as well, perhaps by chat tomorrow. |
| 00:25.39 | dataw0lf | sure. |
| 00:25.43 | brasto | i wont get away with much more chatting tonight - the wife is home, and dinner-time's coming up... |
| 00:26.01 | dataw0lf | ARGH I JUST RIPPED ONE OF MY CCIEs! |
| 00:26.18 | dataw0lf | Noooooooooooo... |
| 00:26.28 | dataw0lf | it's like breaking your child's arm |
| 00:35.57 | dataw0lf | I'm out kids |
| 00:36.00 | dataw0lf | cya |
| 00:36.15 | timinator_ | later DW |
| 00:36.20 | bradym | thanks again for your help dw - later |
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| 01:06.12 | timinator | I'm out guys |
| 01:06.13 | timinator | later |
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| 05:01.57 | jsmith | las mujeres tambien |
| 05:04.27 | el_gaucho | se me gustan las mujeres |
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| 13:55.03 | timinator | morning PHPers |
| 14:10.13 | drip | morning timinator |
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| 14:49.54 | timinator | BRB |
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| 14:54.25 | timinator | back |
| 15:08.49 | *** join/#uphpu jbot (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 15:08.49 | *** topic/#uphpu is Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org | Meeting 12/21 @ 7p |
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| 15:32.49 | timinator | dataw0lf: I've got a link for you |
| 15:33.02 | timinator | that image map you were looking for yesterday |
| 15:33.22 | timinator | this in one that appears to be using HTML links rather than JavaScript |
| 15:33.24 | timinator | http://www.e85refueling.com/ |
| 15:35.07 | bigdog_ut | jsmith, you there? |
| 15:35.59 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: Yup. |
| 15:36.08 | bigdog_ut | you still have that question? |
| 15:36.22 | jsmith | Yeah... Got a second to look at a trigger I'm obviously doing wrong? |
| 15:36.30 | bigdog_ut | y |
| 15:36.58 | jsmith | http://pastebin.ca/278944 |
| 15:37.26 | jsmith | The select in the middle of the trigger obviously isn't finding the right data. |
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| 15:39.11 | bigdog_ut | is it returning anything at all |
| 15:39.47 | bigdog_ut | does the user have perms to query that table? |
| 15:40.55 | jsmith | Yes. |
| 15:41.01 | jsmith | I can query it manually without problems |
| 15:41.51 | bigdog_ut | what data do you get back in the lo_oid when you run it from the trigger |
| 15:43.00 | jsmith | I don't think I get anything |
| 15:43.18 | jsmith | The "else" branch of the "if found" is what gets run. |
| 15:43.23 | jsmith | So it's obviously not finding it. |
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| 15:47.09 | bigdog_ut | from the look of it it seems fine...if you like i can debug it but i would need all the sql for that |
| 15:49.29 | jsmith | Everything you need should be in that pastebin. |
| 15:50.05 | bigdog_ut | what is the update sql that u are using |
| 15:50.09 | jsmith | Except for "INSERT INTO lo_test VALUES (DEFAULT,lo_import(/etc/hosts)); |
| 15:50.17 | bigdog_ut | k |
| 15:50.21 | bigdog_ut | one sec |
| 15:50.23 | jsmith | and the "DELETE FROM lo_test WHERE id = X" |
| 15:50.46 | jsmith | and the "UPDATE lo_test SET data = lo_import(/tmp/blah.txt)" |
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| 16:06.02 | bigdog_ut | jsmith what version of pgsql? |
| 16:08.20 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: PostgreSQL 8.1.4 |
| 16:08.26 | bigdog_ut | k |
| 16:08.55 | jsmith | There will be a variety of servers using this, but it'll all be > 8 |
| 16:09.53 | bigdog_ut | k |
| 16:13.42 | jsmith | Oooh oooh.... I think I got it! |
| 16:15.13 | jsmith | http://pastebin.ca/278974 |
| 16:16.34 | bigdog_ut | did those raise notices error out...i got errors on those |
| 16:27.40 | jsmith | Nope. |
| 16:27.53 | jsmith | I think I was missing a semicolon in the first version I sent you though |
| 16:28.35 | bigdog_ut | looks like you got it working though |
| 16:31.40 | jsmith | Yup... like a champ! |
| 16:31.57 | jsmith | Now I can store Asterisk voicemail in PostgreSQL, as soon as the bug in Asterisk gets fixed |
| 16:32.07 | bigdog_ut | sweet |
| 16:32.11 | jsmith | FWIW, the PostgreSQL ODBC driver is pretty bad |
| 16:32.11 | bigdog_ut | that will be killer |
| 16:32.31 | bigdog_ut | bad = good? or crappy |
| 16:34.38 | jsmith | No, crappy |
| 16:34.55 | bigdog_ut | jdbc driver is really good |
| 16:35.15 | jsmith | Yeah, but then I've gotta use that J thing... and I wanna use C |
| 16:35.37 | bigdog_ut | lol..yeah i understand...is asterisk written in c? |
| 16:36.46 | jsmith | Yes. |
| 16:47.12 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: Do you know if there's a way to call a BEFORE trigger on a DROP TABLE command? |
| 16:47.27 | mindjuj1 | sup all |
| 16:47.33 | timinator | sup mindjuju |
| 16:48.57 | bigdog_ut | you could try, however, i dont think that it will work because the drop command removes triggers |
| 16:49.27 | jsmith | Yeah... according to the guys in #postgresql, it can't be done. |
| 16:49.27 | jsmith | Oh well... I had to try. |
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| 17:42.45 | dataw0lf | jsmith: hmmm, I wonder if there IS a way. |
| 17:43.34 | Black_Chaos | do or do not, there is no try |
| 17:44.26 | jsmith | dataw0lf: If you find a way, I'll buy you doughnuts |
| 17:44.38 | dataw0lf | could you do it with rules? |
| 17:44.59 | dataw0lf | CREATE RULE on_drop AS ON DROP ? |
| 17:45.06 | dataw0lf | I dunno |
| 17:46.27 | jsmith | They guys in #postgresql said something about not being able to do it the DDL stuff |
| 17:47.17 | dataw0lf | hrm |
| 17:49.53 | dataw0lf | honestly, never had a need to run a before trigger on a drop, so I have no idea. |
| 17:50.51 | bigdog_ut | you could do it with a stored proc |
| 17:50.59 | bigdog_ut | but the ddl could not handle it |
| 17:51.25 | bigdog_ut | so instead of calling drop table you could call a stored proc that would do all the stuff for you |
| 17:51.37 | bigdog_ut | simulate the trigger and then drop the table |
| 17:51.39 | jsmith | Yeah, but that defeats the purpose in this case. |
| 17:51.48 | bigdog_ut | true |
| 17:51.56 | jsmith | I'll just warn the users that they need to delete the rows before they drop the table |
| 17:58.55 | bigdog_ut | u just want to delete rows before you drop the table? |
| 17:59.27 | bigdog_ut | ~seen beandog |
| 17:59.42 | jbot | beandog <n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog> was last seen on IRC in channel #uphpu, 18h 6m 10s ago, saying: 'whee!'. |
| 18:00.45 | beandog | i am now beandog |
| 18:02.37 | dataw0lf | timinator: thanks for the link |
| 18:04.23 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: Yeah, because then the DELETE trigger will clean up the large objects |
| 18:04.36 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: If they just drop the table, the large objects get left behind |
| 18:11.07 | timinator | np DW |
| 18:11.47 | macnewbold | ~rlart |
| 18:12.10 | Black_Chaos | !asplode |
| 18:12.22 | Black_Chaos | ~asplode |
| 18:12.24 | jbot | ACTION head asplode, k thx |
| 18:23.39 | bigdog_ut | jsmith, does drop with cascade still leave the large objs |
| 18:24.29 | jsmith | Will try. |
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| 18:33.03 | macnewbold | ~carpe jugulum |
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| 19:44.59 | dataw0lf | you know you work in the right place when a VP sends an email 'everyone help me bring in the booze' to the office |
| 19:46.18 | dataw0lf | stream encryption ciphers in wireless, what a joke. |
| 19:48.44 | macnewbold | you must be in nevada or something... |
| 19:49.05 | dataw0lf | I wish we had a poker machine in the office... |
| 19:49.17 | herlo | dataw0lf: when you coming back to Utah anyway? |
| 19:49.30 | dataw0lf | I rock at single deck blackjack and poker machines |
| 19:49.34 | herlo | although it's more likely that I'll go to NV before you go to Utah |
| 19:49.42 | dataw0lf | I'm visiting next Friday. |
| 19:50.07 | herlo | oh, you almost beat me back...I'll be there then |
| 19:50.26 | herlo | but I meant for permanents |
| 19:51.14 | dataw0lf | not any time in the near future. |
| 19:51.25 | dataw0lf | I'm staying here for a year and moving to either SV or Portland, Oregon |
| 19:51.38 | herlo | SV? |
| 19:51.42 | dataw0lf | Silicon Valley |
| 19:52.02 | herlo | ahh, was thinking you were gonna move to Sweden sometimes they pronounce it SVeden |
| 19:52.11 | dataw0lf | har har |
| 19:52.15 | herlo | dataw0lf: you are a punk |
| 19:52.24 | dataw0lf | man, so true. |
| 19:53.16 | dataw0lf | herlo: did you see my drunk guilty picture? |
| 19:53.57 | herlo | dataw0lf: no, where is it? |
| 19:54.22 | dataw0lf | http://stderr.ws/dw2.jpg |
| 19:54.26 | dataw0lf | http://stderr.ws/dw.jpg |
| 19:54.39 | dataw0lf | work christmas party, I was traaaaaaaashed |
| 19:54.43 | dataw0lf | so, yea, I'm a punk. |
| 19:54.46 | dataw0lf | yee haw! |
| 19:54.47 | herlo | especially the redeye |
| 19:55.06 | dataw0lf | the evil inside me overflows every now and then |
| 19:55.44 | herlo | dataw0lf: doesn't it for all us geek |
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| 19:56.37 | dataw0lf | just because I use Linux, code, and argue about minor technical details doesn't make me a geek! Jeez! |
| 19:57.13 | herlo | dataw0lf: geeks are definitely better than nerds |
| 19:57.26 | herlo | the main difference between a geek and nerd is social skills |
| 19:57.30 | dataw0lf | too true |
| 19:57.32 | herlo | so yes, you are a GEEK |
| 19:57.36 | dataw0lf | yea nerds smell |
| 19:57.43 | herlo | uh huh |
| 19:58.03 | dataw0lf | heh |
| 19:58.25 | dataw0lf | I smell great. I think this has something to do with the fact that I dazedly put on my girlfriend's deoderant instead of my own this morning. |
| 19:58.37 | dataw0lf | deodorant? |
| 19:58.45 | dataw0lf | yea, deodorant. |
| 19:59.48 | dataw0lf | like roses and baby powder. |
| 20:00.09 | herlo | well, at least you smell like something you like |
| 20:00.15 | herlo | your girlfriend |
| 20:00.20 | dataw0lf | yup. |
| 20:00.23 | dataw0lf | I don't mind. |
| 20:00.33 | dataw0lf | at least I'm putting on deodorant, is the key there ;) |
| 20:00.34 | herlo | I don't either, mainly because you're in Reno |
| 20:00.40 | herlo | true, true |
| 20:01.22 | dataw0lf | I'm going to go reheat some excellent Pirate's Pizza I have in the office kitchen. |
| 20:01.35 | dataw0lf | artichoke hearts, salami, mushrooms, olives |
| 20:01.37 | dataw0lf | mMmmm |
| 20:06.21 | macnewbold | ~fungus |
| 20:06.24 | jbot | i guess fungus is Kinda smelly, but grows on you, or a ASCII guru |
| 20:08.13 | herlo | dataw0lf: sounds yummy, we had pot roast today, not that friendly |
| 20:10.25 | fungus | ooh, I love artichoke hearts. skip the salami though. :) |
| 20:15.43 | dataw0lf | mmmm i lubs salami |
| 20:15.46 | *** join/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net) |
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| 20:15.46 | dataw0lf | and italian sausage |
| 20:20.18 | mindjuj1 | ~rlart |
| 20:20.55 | macnewbold | ~bonk mindjuj1 |
| 20:20.57 | jbot | ACTION bonks mindjuj1 over the head |
| 20:21.06 | macnewbold | what kind of person can't even spell their own nick right consistently? |
| 20:21.11 | mindjuj1 | /ghost |
| 20:21.13 | macnewbold | ~asplode mindjuj1 |
| 20:21.14 | jbot | mindjuj1 head asplode, k thx |
| 20:22.32 | *** join/#uphpu mindjuju (n=mindjuju@65-121-75-195.dia.static.qwest.net) |
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| 20:51.13 | dataw0lf | hey optikal |
| 20:52.03 | optikal | yo |
| 20:52.18 | dataw0lf | hey, come in to #utah and explain how we got jumped that one night in Magna/WV |
| 20:52.33 | dataw0lf | someone said I had never walked the streets of WV at night |
| 20:53.30 | optikal | uhmm-- Im knee deep in some SEO at the moment, give me a few~ |
| 20:53.50 | dataw0lf | oh, nevermind |
| 20:58.39 | dataw0lf | "I'll talk about the person I met when I was young.." |
| 20:58.43 | mindjuju | bionic command rules |
| 20:59.39 | mindjuju | course though, a close second would be Metal Gear. I mean, how cool was that to run around in a cardboard box? |
| 21:00.05 | dataw0lf | dang |
| 21:00.13 | dataw0lf | my girlfriend is going to Europe in January |
| 21:00.40 | dataw0lf | lucky. |
| 21:00.47 | dataw0lf | course, that means 4 days of freedom for me |
| 21:02.25 | mindjuju | what you going to do for those four days? |
| 21:02.45 | _psychic_ | mindjuju: I'd rather reduce baddies to little bullets, personally. |
| 21:03.03 | dataw0lf | probably get a half gallon of ice cream every day and watch soaps |
| 21:04.35 | mindjuju | yeah, top honors to BC. I've always wished they'd make a sequal to the game |
| 21:04.42 | mindjuju | heard one came out for the gba or something |
| 21:05.21 | _psychic_ | It'd be a cool next gen console game. |
| 21:05.38 | _psychic_ | Specially since you'd have more buttons. :) |
| 21:05.53 | _psychic_ | Swing the wiimote around to grapple on stuff: that'd be cool. |
| 21:47.28 | macnewbold | ~seen brasto |
| 21:47.46 | jbot | brasto <n=brasto@71-219-149-94.slkc.qwest.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #uphpu, 21h 22m 3s ago, saying: 'i wont get away with much more chatting tonight - the wife is home, and dinner-time's coming up...'. |
| 22:07.36 | jsmith | mindjuju: If you find some, pass it along... I need something to keep me going this afternoon |
| 22:07.49 | jsmith | Too much electrical plumbing this afternoon |
| 22:10.45 | dataw0lf | man. have I mentioned I love Python any time this hour? |
| 22:11.05 | timinator | not this hour |
| 22:11.18 | dataw0lf | I mean, how much easier can modular construction be? |
| 22:11.27 | dataw0lf | see: |
| 22:11.33 | dataw0lf | parse_rules.py : |
| 22:11.43 | dataw0lf | def GET_parse(line): |
| 22:11.48 | dataw0lf | (some parsing stuff here) |
| 22:11.56 | dataw0lf | def DATE_parse(line): |
| 22:11.59 | dataw0lf | (some parsing stuff here) |
| 22:12.14 | dataw0lf | rules = [GET_parse, DATE_parse] |
| 22:12.19 | dataw0lf | logconverter.py: |
| 22:12.24 | dataw0lf | import parse_rules |
| 22:12.31 | dataw0lf | for f in parse_rules.rules: |
| 22:12.41 | dataw0lf | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:13.04 | dataw0lf | I mean, Python encourages you to do such beautiful things! I lubs it |
| 22:14.57 | macnewbold | ~abuse python |
| 22:14.58 | jbot | ACTION smacks python across the face. "Take that, sucker!" |
| 22:17.39 | mindjuju | Python, Shmython... I prefer Logo |
| 22:17.46 | macnewbold | dude, did you use Logo? |
| 22:17.54 | macnewbold | man, we must be old or somethin |
| 22:17.59 | dataw0lf | omg Logo is so kindergarten |
| 22:18.07 | mindjuju | course, cause i'm old skool |
| 22:18.07 | macnewbold | 4th grade, thank you very much |
| 22:18.28 | mindjuju | 30 right 30 down 30 left 30 up |
| 22:18.30 | mindjuju | oh yeah! |
| 22:18.31 | dataw0lf | I never took a class on programming until college. You guys had well funded schools. |
| 22:18.42 | _psychic_ | My first logo image was a swastika. |
| 22:18.51 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: where'd you go to school? |
| 22:19.06 | mindjuju | backwood Louisana prolly |
| 22:19.43 | dataw0lf | south Chicago |
| 22:19.44 | dataw0lf | nerds |
| 22:20.03 | dataw0lf | I was too busy dodging hails of gunfire to program! Duh! |
| 22:20.09 | _psychic_ | lol |
| 22:20.39 | _psychic_ | Well, I was too busy programming my machine gun enabled robots to fart around with dodging hailstorms, personally. |
| 22:20.42 | _psychic_ | With logo, no less. |
| 22:20.49 | _psychic_ | 30 forward 10 fire |
| 22:21.27 | dataw0lf | well, if I could've used Logo to defend myself against gang warfare and the crackhead on the corner, I would've, I assure you. |
| 22:22.20 | _psychic_ | "Good morning class. Please pick up your robotic combat android next to the paste cupboard." |
| 22:25.27 | dataw0lf | if only... |
| 22:25.59 | dataw0lf | I think I'd be a much different person if I had my own personal robotic combat android growing up |
| 22:26.17 | dataw0lf | I'm surprised there are no java applet Logo interpreters. |
| 22:26.35 | dataw0lf | nevermind |
| 22:26.38 | dataw0lf | http://homepage.mac.com/troy_stephens/TinyJavaLogo/ |
| 22:26.42 | mindjuju | i had the Fonzy bike so i didn't have much trouble when I was younger |
| 22:28.46 | dataw0lf | I had the KITT power wheels, so I _was_ fairly safe |
| 22:29.12 | macnewbold | except when the big kids desided to beat you up... |
| 22:29.34 | mindjuju | I have to admit, i didn't have the KITT power wheels, nor any power wheels |
| 22:30.07 | mindjuju | course though, my Fonzy bike had a picture of Henry Winkler holding up his thumb saying "Heyyyyy...." |
| 22:30.13 | mindjuju | all the way down the chain guard |
| 22:30.25 | dataw0lf | macnewbold: I'd like to see some big kids catch up to me on my KITT power wheels! |
| 22:30.37 | _psychic_ | mindjuju: haha |
| 22:30.49 | dataw0lf | I wish I had an adult sized KITT power wheel |
| 22:30.53 | dataw0lf | why don't they make those? |
| 22:30.56 | mindjuju | course, the cool thing about power wheels was that Jake brake on the right side tire |
| 22:31.41 | timinator | I loved that |
| 22:32.02 | _psychic_ | mindjuju: and if you stuck some rocks in the holes in the wheels (from the said braking), you got a really cool noise effect |
| 22:32.17 | _psychic_ | unless you were > mach 1 |
| 22:34.48 | dataw0lf | I want one of those Kawasaki 750 Brute Forces |
| 22:35.20 | dataw0lf | http://www.kawasakiatv.org/kawasaki-brute-force-750-camo.htm |
| 22:38.30 | timinator | does it come with a Jake Brake? |
| 23:00.43 | dataw0lf | it comes with a big engine |
| 23:01.34 | timinator | it's nice dude |
| 23:01.51 | dataw0lf | heh |
| 23:02.15 | dataw0lf | 'the top ten warmest years have all occured in the past 12 years' |
| 23:02.17 | dataw0lf | wow |
| 23:03.36 | mindjuju | 'xcept of course when the earth was a flaming ball of magma |
| 23:03.53 | mindjuju | imagine it was a might bit hotter then |
| 23:04.02 | timinator | well, of course not those years |
| 23:05.09 | mindjuju | i think people need to see the silver lining in things! Global warming means more places to fish and cheaper heating bills in the winter! |
| 23:06.50 | dataw0lf | yea, plus spread of disease, destabilization of ocean currents, more hurricanes, it'll be fun! |
| 23:07.18 | mindjuju | yeah, says who? |
| 23:07.31 | jsmith | Any of you guys using icmptx? |
| 23:07.37 | jsmith | If so, ping me please... |
| 23:08.01 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: just like evolution, global warming isn't really a debated topic in the majority of scientific circles |
| 23:08.16 | dataw0lf | nor is the fact that people are causing it. |
| 23:08.29 | mindjuju | yeah, and nether was the fact that ether existed, until whoops,it was proven that it didn't |
| 23:08.47 | timinator | lol |
| 23:08.52 | mindjuju | still though, all things being equal, i'd like to see it in print |
| 23:09.07 | dataw0lf | yea, no difference in scientific methods now and when ether was thought to have existed |
| 23:09.17 | mindjuju | print please |
| 23:09.29 | dataw0lf | one sec, let me say one more funny thing |
| 23:10.02 | dataw0lf | Personally, I believe global warming to be part of a diabolical plan by oil companies to open the Northwest Passage for shipping routes for supertankers to cut costs |
| 23:10.11 | dataw0lf | kk, I'll go find print |
| 23:10.17 | timinator | LOL |
| 23:10.44 | dataw0lf | http://www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/ |
| 23:10.50 | dataw0lf | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5006970.stm |
| 23:10.56 | dataw0lf | http://www.psrast.org/globecolcr.htm |
| 23:11.06 | dataw0lf | http://www.aip.org/history/climate/index.html |
| 23:11.39 | dataw0lf | http://www.vega.org.uk/video/programme/119 |
| 23:11.45 | dataw0lf | http://www.whoi.edu/institutes/occi/viewTopic.do?o=read&id=521 |
| 23:11.50 | dataw0lf | http://www.aip.org/history/climate |
| 23:11.56 | dataw0lf | oops, repost |
| 23:12.01 | dataw0lf | that'll keep you busy for a while |
| 23:12.08 | dataw0lf | I have, like, four hundred more. |
| 23:12.17 | mindjuju | yeah, here's mine, read it while i read yours |
| 23:12.18 | mindjuju | William Gray, hurricane expert and head of the Tropical Meteorology Project at Colorado State University, in a 2005 interview with Discover magazine: "I'm not disputing that there has been global warming. There was a lot of global warming in the 1930s and '40s, and then there was a slight global cooling from the middle '40s to the early '70s. And there has been warming since the middle '70s, especially in the last 10 years. But |
| 23:12.39 | dataw0lf | .. link instead? |
| 23:13.04 | dataw0lf | " Sherwood Rowland was awarded the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1995 for work in atmospheric chemistry, particularly concerning the formation and decomposition of Ozone. In this interview Rowland chose to talk about two issues: Ozone and Global Warming." |
| 23:13.17 | mindjuju | http://www.livescience.com/environment/060713_global_warming.html -- in their vain attempt to seem impartial posted to con, this one and another |
| 23:13.17 | dataw0lf | that one is http://www.vega.org.uk/video/programme/119 |
| 23:13.34 | mindjuju | look for this one on that page also |
| 23:13.35 | mindjuju | Richard Lindzen, professor of meteorology at Massachusetts Institute of Technology, in an editorial last April for The Wall Street Journal: |
| 23:14.39 | mindjuju | like michael crichton said, you can't have consensus in science |
| 23:15.06 | mindjuju | science isn't about consensus, it's about truth |
| 23:15.22 | dataw0lf | None of these guys are disputing that 1) that global warming exists, nor that 2) there will be negative effects |
| 23:15.45 | dataw0lf | What they don't agree on is how dramatic said effects will be |
| 23:15.57 | mindjuju | not so |
| 23:16.02 | mindjuju | many debate cause |
| 23:16.16 | dataw0lf | no, they debate primary causes |
| 23:16.46 | dataw0lf | we all know that people have contributed to global warming |
| 23:16.47 | *** join/#uphpu herlo (n=herlo@65.212.203.130) |
| 23:16.51 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v herlo] by ChanServ |
| 23:17.03 | mindjuju | have people had an affect on their enviroment, no dobut, is the effect global warming - big debate |
| 23:17.24 | mindjuju | will global warming be as bad as they say - big debate |
| 23:17.25 | dataw0lf | no, we KNOW we influence global warming. To what extent, like you said, is debatable. |
| 23:17.42 | mindjuju | yeah, MIT guy disagrees with you |
| 23:18.00 | dataw0lf | he can disagree with me all he wants. |
| 23:18.19 | mindjuju | cool, thx for the permission! |
| 23:18.20 | dataw0lf | I see two cat 5s AFTER Katrina, Wilma being the strongest hurricane ever recorded, and I say, 'um, there's something going on here' |
| 23:18.44 | mindjuju | ugh! yeah, Katrina caused the crazy flooding. it wasn't like the levies or anything |
| 23:18.58 | mindjuju | or the billions of misappropriated $$ sent to the state and local gov |
| 23:19.19 | dataw0lf | Uh |
| 23:19.23 | mindjuju | they paid for upgrades to the levies! |
| 23:19.28 | mindjuju | where'd the money go? |
| 23:19.31 | mindjuju | hmmm... |
| 23:19.52 | dataw0lf | So you're saying that because they weren't prepared that that somehow lessens how powerful katrina was? |
| 23:20.01 | mindjuju | katrina would have been barely a footnote in history |
| 23:20.03 | dataw0lf | it wasn't, like, a little spud thunderstorm that hit some town that never gets rain. |
| 23:20.13 | mindjuju | we have cat 4 and 5 all the time |
| 23:20.20 | dataw0lf | we DO?? Really. When? |
| 23:20.21 | mindjuju | i lived in texas, see hurricanes all the time |
| 23:20.34 | mindjuju | what, you think we've run out of names for huricannes before? |
| 23:20.37 | mindjuju | check the history |
| 23:20.42 | dataw0lf | uh, here's the history: |
| 23:20.44 | dataw0lf | http://www.weathermatrix.net/tropical/cat5storms.htm |
| 23:21.30 | dataw0lf | 3 cat 5s in one year. Happens all the time. You're right. |
| 23:21.32 | dataw0lf | Not... |
| 23:21.39 | mindjuju | your hilarious |
| 23:21.44 | dataw0lf | it's you're |
| 23:21.52 | mindjuju | weather man can't even predict accurately whether it's goingn to snow |
| 23:21.58 | mindjuju | infact said all last week, crazy snow |
| 23:22.04 | mindjuju | and we got like .8 inches |
| 23:22.07 | dataw0lf | what does that have to do with anything? |
| 23:22.13 | mindjuju | now i'm suppose to trust him for the weather 50 years from now? |
| 23:22.15 | mindjuju | please |
| 23:22.19 | dataw0lf | they might not be able to PREDICT something, but they don't have any problems RECORDING it |
| 23:22.32 | mindjuju | yeah, then what's all this prediction you gave me about global warming |
| 23:22.43 | dataw0lf | I look at trends. |
| 23:22.49 | mindjuju | and you... |
| 23:22.50 | mindjuju | predict |
| 23:22.58 | dataw0lf | Sure. |
| 23:22.58 | mindjuju | and as a rule, weather suck |
| 23:23.07 | mindjuju | whoops, weather men |
| 23:23.09 | dataw0lf | especially when you take global warming into account |
| 23:23.16 | mindjuju | my point exactly |
| 23:23.22 | mindjuju | prediction of weather is iffy at best |
| 23:23.26 | mindjuju | including the future weather |
| 23:23.35 | dataw0lf | ok, ok, there's a difference between predicting local weather |
| 23:23.44 | dataw0lf | and watching GLOBAL trends that are scary |
| 23:24.02 | dataw0lf | this isn't Nebraska and I'm not doing a rain dance |
| 23:24.06 | mindjuju | k, so now your saying that they suck at predicting local weather and we should trust them on a future global scale |
| 23:24.14 | mindjuju | k, that' makes a whole heck of a lot of sense |
| 23:24.24 | mindjuju | considering global weather is significantly more complex |
| 23:24.45 | dataw0lf | I'm saying that if we're already seeing glaciers and ice melting at a significantly faster rate, and it doesn't look like it's going to cool down, there might be something to the whole deal |
| 23:25.08 | mindjuju | and 30 years ago, the saying was if we don't melt them, we were going to roast |
| 23:25.16 | mindjuju | that we were in a global freezing period |
| 23:25.21 | mindjuju | little ice age, they called it |
| 23:25.27 | mindjuju | now, it's that we are roasting |
| 23:25.33 | mindjuju | they weren't right then, they ain't right now |
| 23:25.43 | dataw0lf | oh please, I want to see print of that. |
| 23:25.56 | mindjuju | newsweek, 1979 i htink, hang on |
| 23:26.25 | mindjuju | one quick google search and here we are |
| 23:26.26 | mindjuju | http://denisdutton.com/cooling_world.htm |
| 23:26.30 | mindjuju | read it and weep |
| 23:27.09 | mindjuju | and hey guess what, they quote scientist in there too. scientist who were so darn sure of themselves |
| 23:27.27 | dataw0lf | You have one article? |
| 23:27.29 | dataw0lf | That's it? |
| 23:27.33 | mindjuju | pshah |
| 23:27.35 | dataw0lf | and a NEWSWEEK article?? |
| 23:27.38 | dataw0lf | hahahahahahahahaha |
| 23:27.46 | mindjuju | i post an article you didn't think i had |
| 23:27.52 | mindjuju | fact is, you know i'm right |
| 23:28.05 | mindjuju | and no bits of fake laughing is going to cover |
| 23:28.28 | dataw0lf | haha dude, I'm telling you, it'll take more than a Newsweek article to convince me that this is media fueled hysteria. |
| 23:28.35 | mindjuju | i love this |
| 23:28.36 | mindjuju | To scientists, these seemingly disparate incidents represent the advance signs of fundamental changes in the world’s weather. The central fact is that after three quarters of a century of extraordinarily mild conditions, the earth’s climate seems to be cooling down. |
| 23:28.41 | mindjuju | that's from the article |
| 23:28.45 | mindjuju | want me to find more, i can |
| 23:28.52 | mindjuju | that took like 2 seconds to pull up |
| 23:29.06 | dataw0lf | if it was just a trend, I'd shut up. |
| 23:29.17 | mindjuju | supposedly there is a whole issue of Science at around the same time that said the same thing |
| 23:29.20 | dataw0lf | if the greenhouse gas model didn't exist, I'd shut up. |
| 23:29.32 | dataw0lf | But the amount of CO2 in our atmosphere has hugely spiked. |
| 23:29.41 | mindjuju | ...ether... |
| 23:29.55 | mindjuju | ...scientist believed in ether... |
| 23:29.59 | dataw0lf | along with this, we've seen a trend that goes ALONG with the model. |
| 23:30.15 | mindjuju | yup, scientist needed ether to explain theories of light traveling through space |
| 23:30.19 | mindjuju | had models, everything |
| 23:30.28 | dataw0lf | oh, c'mon. this old hackneyed argument about 'hey, back in the day they believed in so and so...' is ridiculous. |
| 23:31.09 | mindjuju | yeah, cause we know EVERYTHING now |
| 23:31.13 | mindjuju | we are so smart, NOW |
| 23:31.19 | dataw0lf | I never said that, we know next to nothing now. |
| 23:31.25 | mindjuju | my point |
| 23:31.28 | mindjuju | we know next to nothing |
| 23:31.32 | mindjuju | we knew next to nothing |
| 23:31.36 | mindjuju | we will know next to nothing |
| 23:31.42 | dataw0lf | however, in a different light, I could say 'Hey, Mormons used to believe in and practice polygamy. Thus, any modern Mormons today must be wrong.' |
| 23:31.59 | mindjuju | wow, how quickly this turns personal |
| 23:32.10 | mindjuju | dw, your above this, try a different argument |
| 23:32.18 | dataw0lf | things change. We work with what we have in the present. And discounting all science because a couple hundred years ago, or even 50 years ago, they had a different theory, is ridiculous. |
| 23:32.21 | bigdog_ut | swb you around? |
| 23:32.47 | mindjuju | i don't discount science, i don't believe it blindly either |
| 23:32.54 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: I'm just displaying your innate ability to make blanket statements. |
| 23:32.57 | mindjuju | especially when it is politically motivated |
| 23:33.04 | dataw0lf | When have I ever believed in science blindly?? |
| 23:33.16 | dataw0lf | do you really think that the scientific beliefs I have are motivated by politics? |
| 23:33.22 | *** part/#uphpu beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 23:33.22 | dataw0lf | You don't know me at all, then, mindjuju. |
| 23:33.33 | mindjuju | oh please |
| 23:33.51 | mindjuju | everything you've sent is slanted pro global warming, not even a consideration of the antithesis |
| 23:34.02 | dataw0lf | because you wanted arguments FOR global warming. |
| 23:34.07 | dataw0lf | Which I happen to believe in. |
| 23:34.15 | mindjuju | blindy, yes, i agree |
| 23:34.38 | bigdog_ut | ~smack swb |
| 23:34.39 | jbot | ACTION smacks swb upside the head. |
| 23:34.47 | dataw0lf | OBVIOUSLY, I'm going to support my side at the expense of the other. That's what you do when you've made your mind up about something. I didn't just decide one day 'HEY! Dan Rather says global warming exists, therefore it must.' |
| 23:34.58 | bigdog_ut | swb, must be sleeping at the keyboard again |
| 23:35.04 | dataw0lf | I look at facts. |
| 23:35.06 | dataw0lf | And trends. |
| 23:35.10 | dataw0lf | I think about it logically. |
| 23:35.16 | dataw0lf | And I make a decision. |
| 23:35.19 | timinator | bigdog_ut: it's impolite to slap a girl |
| 23:35.25 | mindjuju | k, then how did the newsweek article skip your attention |
| 23:35.35 | bigdog_ut | timinator, that was not a slap but a smack |
| 23:35.40 | bigdog_ut | very different |
| 23:35.50 | dataw0lf | I wasn't looking for research from 30 years ago about the exact opposite effect. |
| 23:35.57 | timinator | especailly a girl who knows how to compile and uses tech terms correctly in a conversation |
| 23:36.02 | bigdog_ut | i just let out some global warming |
| 23:36.08 | mindjuju | lol |
| 23:36.10 | timinator | eeww |
| 23:36.17 | dataw0lf | bigdog_ut is full of global warming. |
| 23:36.22 | bigdog_ut | very much so |
| 23:36.52 | mindjuju | k, i'll read your articles and see if any new arguments that i haven't seen before |
| 23:37.25 | mindjuju | and i'll even try to forget that scientist routinely think they have it right this time |
| 23:37.54 | bigdog_ut | what article |
| 23:38.06 | dataw0lf | isn't this the same argument you used against evolution? |
| 23:38.35 | mindjuju | did we talk about evolution? |
| 23:38.39 | bigdog_ut | i only believe in evolution if i evolve faster than you |
| 23:38.39 | mindjuju | oh yeah, long time ago |
| 23:38.44 | dataw0lf | a year or so ago. |
| 23:39.00 | mindjuju | no, i don't think i used that argument against evolution |
| 23:39.06 | mindjuju | though i do remember us talking about it now |
| 23:39.28 | bigdog_ut | where o' where did swb go...they must have came and took here away from here |
| 23:39.28 | dataw0lf | bigdog_ut: dude, that's a fallacy. Evolution is a non-directional process since it does not lead to an ultimate goal. |
| 23:39.32 | dataw0lf | duh! |
| 23:39.54 | dataw0lf | you can't evolve into a dataw0lf because there can.. be.. only.. one. |
| 23:39.55 | bigdog_ut | no goal...i just want to change faster than the next guy |
| 23:40.08 | dataw0lf | lay your clothes out before you go to sleep. |
| 23:40.39 | dataw0lf | my gf says I'm devolving because I don't fold my laundry. |
| 23:40.52 | dataw0lf | 'What are you? A CHIMP??' |
| 23:40.57 | timinator | if you grew a fin, you'd be devolving |
| 23:40.59 | dataw0lf | then I fling poo at her til she goes away. |
| 23:41.06 | macnewbold | ~monkey dataw0lf |
| 23:41.08 | jbot | ACTION flings poo at dataw0lf |
| 23:42.37 | Black_Chaos | ~asplode everyone |
| 23:42.38 | jbot | everyone head asplode, k thx |
| 23:43.11 | dataw0lf | I want to be a geneticist. That stuff is sweet. |
| 23:48.37 | Utah_Dave | ~seen burnin |
| 23:48.51 | jbot | burnin <n=burnin@42dbe40a.dsl.aros.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #uphpu, 1d 21h 3m 32s ago, saying: 'dataw0lf, whats your poison?'. |
| 23:52.02 | Utah_Dave | hey, dataw0lf. I can't figure out how to see if I have a package installed with yum. |
| 23:52.18 | Utah_Dave | I'm thinking I'm trying the wrong tool |
| 23:53.24 | mindjuju | hey, that's cool, burning is using the same brand ISP that ole' fungus works at |
| 23:54.48 | dataw0lf | Utah_Dave: rpm -q <package> |
| 23:55.19 | Utah_Dave | thanks, man. |
| 23:55.22 | dataw0lf | np |
| 23:56.49 | dataw0lf | alright, I'm leaving early |
| 23:56.51 | dataw0lf | cya guys |
| 23:56.59 | dataw0lf | and I still love you mindjuju, even though you're wrong. |
| 23:57.00 | dataw0lf | ;-) |
| 23:57.03 | mindjuju | cya datawolf |
| 23:57.08 | mindjuju | hey, one thing dataw0lf |
| 23:57.18 | mindjuju | your not mad, are ya? |
| 23:57.26 | dataw0lf | course not |
| 23:57.28 | dataw0lf | c'mon now |
| 23:57.30 | mindjuju | k |
| 23:57.38 | mindjuju | cause truth told, i ain't made up my mind yet |
| 23:57.52 | dataw0lf | I know, you evaluate things, which is why I don't get mad at you |
| 23:58.00 | mindjuju | coolio, bro |
| 23:58.01 | dataw0lf | but I gots to leave - cya |
