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| 01:29.42 | mindjuju | how's the new site going? |
| 01:29.56 | timinator | awesome |
| 01:30.24 | timinator | signing up guys in a steady stream just as we hoped |
| 01:30.36 | timinator | it's a site of web tools |
| 01:30.50 | timinator | so we're adding new tools |
| 01:31.12 | timinator | guys are using existing tools |
| 01:31.13 | mindjuju | way cool! i saw ya'll were going to have some business states, but also some fun stuff like sports and such |
| 01:31.25 | timinator | yep |
| 01:31.41 | timinator | right now I'm just pulling ESPN's RSS feed |
| 01:31.57 | timinator | but I plan on making a "members only" fantasy football |
| 01:32.17 | timinator | and using an in-house currency for bets |
| 01:32.28 | timinator | (not transferrable) |
| 01:32.29 | mindjuju | that's cool! |
| 01:32.32 | timinator | ya |
| 01:32.56 | timinator | that in-house currency will also work on other games we have planned |
| 01:33.05 | timinator | like a Texas Hold'em |
| 01:33.27 | timinator | I'm finishing a tool now |
| 01:33.34 | timinator | that'll give each user a blog |
| 01:33.52 | timinator | (nobody in this industry knows what a blog is) |
| 01:33.59 | timinator | (virtually nobody) |
| 01:34.17 | timinator | mine's at timber.mylumbertrader.com |
| 01:34.26 | timinator | it's tied to the username obviously |
| 01:34.28 | mindjuju | that'll be awesome! did you roll the blog soft yourself or did you mod an OSS one? |
| 01:34.49 | timinator | rolled it myself.... but it's not impressive |
| 01:35.32 | mindjuju | i think it looks fine, dude |
| 01:35.34 | mindjuju | real good |
| 01:35.42 | timinator | just the basics, but it's lightweight and it's tied to my authentication system for the admin side and it posts on the username.mylumbertrader.com side |
| 01:35.52 | timinator | it'll work for now... |
| 01:36.05 | timinator | I'll add things like comments later |
| 01:37.00 | timinator | then again, perhaps I'll leave it as is.... don't want blogging newbies getting discouraged because somebody writes a bad comment and have them discredit all of MLT |
| 01:37.49 | mindjuju | true that |
| 01:37.50 | timinator | but I would like to add an email subscription list for readers that want to be alerted of new posts |
| 01:38.31 | timinator | oh, and the admin of the blog is completely integrated in MLT (cause I built them both) |
| 01:38.36 | timinator | so that's another plus |
| 01:39.02 | timinator | I need a JS guru though |
| 01:39.59 | timinator | I'm trying to get some tabs to have an "onClick" command that runs an innerHTML replace |
| 01:40.05 | timinator | and it's kicking my butt |
| 01:40.16 | timinator | how's your project going? |
| 01:40.39 | mindjuju | first review of the site went really well, have general staff training on the site next wednesday |
| 01:41.08 | timinator | nice |
| 01:41.29 | mindjuju | i've not attained "enlightenment" in JS, but i'm ok. though InnerHTML has always been tough for me |
| 01:42.00 | timinator | ya, me too |
| 01:43.04 | timinator | didn't you say something about calming down your hours after the site was finished? are you waiting for the general staff training? or are you onto another project? |
| 01:43.52 | mindjuju | nope, gen staff training, then a couple of days to tune, then i'm taking my wife and taking off for several days leaving my son at my father in law's |
| 01:44.11 | timinator | nice |
| 01:44.16 | mindjuju | so after days to tune, everything drops down to normal hours |
| 01:44.33 | timinator | I bet you're wife's anxious for that |
| 01:45.00 | mindjuju | yup, been a long time of heavy studying and writing code |
| 01:45.11 | timinator | yep |
| 01:45.21 | timinator | I know you've been busting your butt |
| 01:45.41 | mindjuju | it'll be worth it, methinks |
| 01:45.54 | mindjuju | want me to talk a look at this innerHTML thing you got? |
| 01:46.32 | timinator | tempting... but it's a mess... in the middle of another mess.... I've put it up for the night |
| 01:47.38 | timinator | I'll probably try it again tomorrow, strip out everything that's not essential and give it another go |
| 01:48.14 | mindjuju | saw bigdog_ut field a question on JS that was fairly tough, you may want to ask him |
| 01:48.58 | timinator | I've heard bigdog_ut is a JS guru |
| 01:49.09 | bigdog_ut | yes that is true |
| 01:49.15 | timinator | :) |
| 01:51.39 | bigdog_ut | timinator, did you have a question on js? |
| 01:52.05 | timinator | I have a goal that I'm not reaching |
| 01:52.07 | timinator | in JS |
| 01:52.16 | bigdog_ut | k |
| 01:52.37 | timinator | I've got 3 main boxes on the web page |
| 01:52.46 | timinator | each box has a couple tabs |
| 01:53.10 | timinator | but by having a traditional <a> tag, it requires a page refresh |
| 01:53.26 | bigdog_ut | k |
| 01:53.30 | timinator | I would like to load all the tabs in invisible <div> tags |
| 01:53.38 | bigdog_ut | k |
| 01:53.40 | timinator | then have a JS function for each window |
| 01:53.54 | timinator | that goes back and forth from one tab to the next |
| 01:54.06 | timinator | w/ onClick triggers |
| 01:54.13 | bigdog_ut | k |
| 01:54.18 | bigdog_ut | and you want to know how to do that |
| 01:54.23 | timinator | ya |
| 01:54.33 | bigdog_ut | one sec and let me find my code for it |
| 01:54.38 | timinator | NICE |
| 01:55.06 | timinator | ^5 mindjuju |
| 01:55.12 | timinator | you were right dude |
| 01:55.19 | bigdog_ut | give me a minute though |
| 01:55.26 | timinator | k |
| 01:55.35 | mindjuju | telling ya, the bigdog has attained enlightment |
| 01:55.42 | timinator | true that |
| 01:56.21 | bradym | i'm not enlightened like the bigdog.. but you might want to look at http://www.barelyfitz.com/projects/tabber/ -- i'm using it in one of my current projects and it works pretty well... |
| 01:56.36 | timinator | thanks bradym |
| 01:56.54 | bradym | sure |
| 01:58.14 | bigdog_ut | timinator, check out his and let me know if you need more help...ive got to fix some code in an application asap right now |
| 01:58.23 | timinator | cool |
| 02:06.19 | timinator | nice |
| 02:09.34 | bigdog_ut | timinator, does his work for you? |
| 02:10.27 | timinator | his looks nice |
| 02:10.41 | timinator | but I need to have images instead of text tabs |
| 02:10.56 | timinator | still working on that |
| 02:10.59 | bigdog_ut | just use css to do that |
| 02:11.06 | timinator | as backgrounds |
| 02:11.08 | timinator | k |
| 02:11.11 | bigdog_ut | yeah |
| 02:11.33 | bigdog_ut | let me know if you have any issues and i can help you out |
| 02:11.42 | bigdog_ut | man is a little complicated |
| 02:11.48 | bigdog_ut | s/man/mine/g |
| 02:11.57 | timinator | k |
| 02:12.05 | timinator | if the tab is a background |
| 02:12.15 | timinator | how would I switch it once highlighted? |
| 02:12.32 | bigdog_ut | in your onclick method you would change that value |
| 02:12.40 | timinator | k |
| 02:12.48 | bigdog_ut | and you can do it with an onmouseover too |
| 02:12.56 | timinator | cool |
| 02:13.06 | timinator | this should do the trick then |
| 02:13.09 | timinator | thanks guys |
| 02:13.09 | bigdog_ut | i would create a js function that changes it for you |
| 02:13.17 | bigdog_ut | and then pass the needed values for it |
| 02:13.27 | bigdog_ut | then call the function from onmouseover |
| 02:13.42 | bigdog_ut | and have a revert function for onmouseoff? |
| 02:13.50 | timinator | right on |
| 02:15.11 | bigdog_ut | onmouseover and onmouseout |
| 02:15.15 | bigdog_ut | that is what i was meaning |
| 02:15.26 | timinator | i got ya |
| 02:15.39 | timinator | thank you |
| 02:15.43 | bigdog_ut | np |
| 02:16.10 | timinator | thank you too bradym and mindjuju |
| 02:16.48 | bigdog_ut | <td id="tabs0head0" class="ongletTextEna" width="100" onmouseover="onTabHeaderOver(0,0,'ongletTextEna')" onclick="selectTab(0,2,0,'ongletTextEna','ongletTextDis','ongletTextErr',null,null);">Asset Groups</td> |
| 02:16.56 | bigdog_ut | that is an example of my tab header |
| 02:17.41 | bradym | glad it will work for you timinator, i've been pleased with how easy it is to use |
| 02:17.44 | bigdog_ut | this is a hacked version i got from somewhere |
| 02:17.48 | timinator | copy, paste, edit |
| 02:27.20 | timinator | php question |
| 02:27.31 | timinator | anyone know of a way to take a string |
| 02:27.41 | timinator | and add a space between each character |
| 02:28.07 | timinator | I could do a for loop |
| 02:28.20 | timinator | but wondered if there was anything easier |
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| 02:31.25 | tierra | I can't think of any shortcut for that |
| 02:31.37 | timinator | me either |
| 02:31.41 | timinator | :( |
| 02:32.15 | bradym | you could do it with CSS using letter-spacing |
| 02:32.52 | timinator | I need the spaces for a text to speech engine |
| 02:33.04 | tierra | actually, this looks promising, one sec while I peice it together |
| 02:33.08 | timinator | so it converts the string as an acronym |
| 02:33.18 | timinator | not a word |
| 02:33.46 | bradym | oh... never dealt with text to speech... the for loop might be your best bet |
| 02:33.55 | tierra | $newstring = chunk_split($original, 1, " "); |
| 02:34.02 | tierra | that may do it (I didn't test) |
| 02:34.07 | timinator | nice... I'll try it |
| 02:37.53 | timinator | B E A U T I F U L |
| 02:38.13 | timinator | thank you tierra |
| 02:41.41 | tierra | nice to know that worked |
| 02:46.37 | tierra | This bothers me about PHP coming from a C++ background: "When inheriting from an abstract class, all methods marked abstract in the parent's class declaration must be defined by the child; additionally, these methods must be defined with the same (or weaker) visibillity. For example, if the abstract method is defined as protected, the function implementation must be defined as either protected or public." |
| 02:47.22 | tierra | in C++, if a member is protected, you can't declare it public in a subclass |
| 02:47.43 | tierra | it pretty much nullifies the point of making it protected in the first place |
| 02:47.51 | timinator | no doubt |
| 02:54.19 | bigdog_ut | i think php's object model needs some work |
| 02:54.32 | bigdog_ut | and namespacing too |
| 02:55.00 | timinator | what would you change bigdog_ut? |
| 02:56.00 | bigdog_ut | it just does not have a strong object model to work with...inheritance is not right, cannot overload/override functions |
| 02:56.13 | bigdog_ut | no really polymorphism in it |
| 02:56.30 | bigdog_ut | im not saying that it is bad...i just want more |
| 02:56.55 | bigdog_ut | but it is a scripting language not strongly typed which is a + |
| 02:57.11 | bigdog_ut | i guess that is why i like ruby and python more |
| 02:58.19 | timinator | I hear ya |
| 03:06.13 | tierra | yeah, the same issues bug me from time to time |
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| 04:11.16 | timinator | I'm out guys |
| 04:11.19 | timinator | thanks for the help |
| 04:11.21 | timinator | later |
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| 14:31.17 | drip | good morning |
| 14:39.45 | Utah_Dave | buenos dias! |
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| 15:54.43 | timinator | that's better than hiring a hit man |
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| 16:06.44 | Lone_Wanderer | What's better, doing it myself? |
| 16:09.35 | timinator | lol |
| 16:09.56 | Lone_Wanderer | This is weird, I just threatened someone with conditional death in another window and now you're talking about a hit man |
| 16:10.12 | Lone_Wanderer | (If you ever hurt Kristy I will hunt you down and murder you.) |
| 16:10.49 | timinator | **note to self: don't hunt Kristy |
| 16:11.07 | Lone_Wanderer | Well you're not her boyfriend so you're okay. |
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| 16:31.34 | timinator | does anybody mind a Mac question? |
| 16:32.09 | _psychic_ | shoo |
| 16:32.11 | _psychic_ | t |
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| 16:40.32 | timinator | Is there any way to put a maximum allowance of RAM or CPU to an app? |
| 16:40.53 | timinator | I've got iTunes converting a movie |
| 16:40.54 | Lone_Wanderer | a php app? |
| 16:40.57 | Lone_Wanderer | ohhh |
| 16:41.00 | Lone_Wanderer | you can nice it down |
| 16:41.01 | timinator | no mac |
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| 16:42.04 | timinator | it's been working on if for several hours at 100% and I'd like to force it to only take 30% or so so that I can do other things today |
| 16:42.10 | Lone_Wanderer | just nice it down |
| 16:42.14 | Lone_Wanderer | I forget how but it's not hard |
| 16:42.37 | timinator | never heard of it... I'll look up |
| 16:43.26 | _psychic_ | just do man nice |
| 16:43.37 | _psychic_ | and negative values give it more priority, remember |
| 16:43.45 | _psychic_ | you'll also need to know the PID |
| 16:43.52 | Lone_Wanderer | I think it's just nice 9 PID |
| 16:43.56 | Lone_Wanderer | you can get the pid from top |
| 16:44.03 | Lone_Wanderer | in fact you can nice it down from top as well |
| 16:44.05 | _psychic_ | no cause you need to give it the priority |
| 16:47.18 | timinator | so nice will just put iTunes at a different priority |
| 16:47.25 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah |
| 16:47.29 | timinator | not put a max on it's CPU allowance |
| 16:47.33 | Lone_Wanderer | nope |
| 16:47.38 | Lone_Wanderer | but it'll have a similar effect |
| 16:47.43 | timinator | so I'll still run at 100% CPU |
| 16:47.58 | Lone_Wanderer | yeah but it doesn't matter |
| 16:48.09 | timinator | by looking at top |
| 16:48.15 | timinator | it's doing that already |
| 16:48.18 | timinator | so I'm good |
| 16:48.18 | Lone_Wanderer | because other processes will have a higher priority |
| 16:48.31 | timinator | ITunes is near the bottom |
| 16:48.43 | timinator | w/ all my other apps above it |
| 16:48.43 | Lone_Wanderer | so when they ask for resources they'll get them. it'll just throw the "scraps" (or whatever) to iTunes |
| 16:48.47 | Lone_Wanderer | k cool |
| 16:48.56 | timinator | cool |
| 16:48.59 | timinator | I'm good then |
| 16:49.05 | timinator | but thank you guys for the info |
| 16:49.12 | timinator | very cool |
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| 17:04.15 | bigdog_ut | ~nice timinator |
| 17:04.17 | jbot | ACTION lowers timinator's priority |
| 17:04.31 | timinator | nice |
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| 17:05.37 | bigdog_ut | ~me |
| 17:05.39 | jbot | [bigdog_ut] Mullet Man, a.k.a. El Perro Loco, or "the gimp", or known as the schwagmeister, or a big meany, or laden, or full of Schmack at times, or the nagios king, or a resident loser, or a mind reader, or a retard at times, or the resident guru of eclipse, or a nerd |
| 17:06.01 | timinator | lol |
| 17:06.16 | timinator | it should say something about JS Guru |
| 17:06.38 | bigdog_ut | oh yeah |
| 17:06.43 | bigdog_ut | ~seen min |
| 17:07.01 | jbot | min <Min@calanos.kaist.ac.kr> was last seen on IRC in channel #familiar, 862d 4h 35m 12s ago, saying: 'How can I install familiar disto on my H4150?'. |
| 17:07.02 | bigdog_ut | ~seen mindjuju |
| 17:07.04 | jbot | mindjuju <n=mindjuju@65-121-75-195.dia.static.qwest.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #uphpu, 15h 11m 29s ago, saying: 'telling ya, the bigdog has attained enlightment'. |
| 17:07.29 | bigdog_ut | ~love mindjuju |
| 17:07.30 | jbot | If you love mindjuju so much, why don't you marry it? (oooooh) |
| 17:09.02 | timinator | lol |
| 17:09.09 | Utah_Dave | ~me |
| 17:09.34 | timinator | ~Utah_Dave |
| 17:09.35 | bigdog_ut | you are nothing Utah_Dave |
| 17:09.45 | bigdog_ut | ~timinator |
| 17:09.46 | jbot | i heard timinator is the person formally known as timothy_, or owns his own business, or likes to wear a stetson and chaps with nothing else on! |
| 17:09.53 | timinator | LOL |
| 17:10.01 | bigdog_ut | man timinator that is just nasty |
| 17:10.15 | timinator | don't knock it till you try it |
| 17:10.15 | bigdog_ut | chaps with the ahole cut out |
| 17:10.16 | timinator | LOL |
| 17:10.55 | drip | lol |
| 17:11.41 | timinator | depends on the type of meeting |
| 17:11.51 | timinator | ;) |
| 17:12.10 | bigdog_ut | he wore them to lunch one time |
| 17:12.43 | timinator | I've never seen bigdog_ut turn that red |
| 17:13.06 | bigdog_ut | oh yeah |
| 17:13.12 | Utah_Dave | :( |
| 17:20.44 | macnewbold | ~clean up this mess |
| 17:20.45 | jbot | ACTION nukes up this mess room and sdays to up this mess: Und zie problem is solved |
| 17:21.31 | timinator | nice mac |
| 17:21.46 | timinator | may I keep the stetson at least |
| 17:26.13 | Lone_Wanderer | Anyone here familiar with Propel? |
| 17:26.16 | Lone_Wanderer | or pear in general? |
| 17:27.04 | _psychic_ | bewarrrreeee the ppeeeeaarrrr |
| 17:27.46 | Lone_Wanderer | ~me |
| 17:27.48 | jbot | [lone_wanderer] on the road again, all alone |
| 17:28.23 | Lone_Wanderer | Trying to install Propel and I can't get the runtime part of it. |
| 17:30.14 | Lone_Wanderer | Supposedly it'll auto-generate them. |
| 17:30.48 | _psychic_ | every time you change your schema? ;) |
| 17:31.06 | Lone_Wanderer | hmmm |
| 17:31.19 | Lone_Wanderer | So what do you use for an orm? |
| 17:31.34 | _psychic_ | the framework I use has a nice orm layer |
| 17:32.47 | Lone_Wanderer | cake? |
| 17:33.43 | _psychic_ | yeah |
| 17:34.29 | Lone_Wanderer | cake doesn't decouple very nicely |
| 17:34.33 | Lone_Wanderer | afaik anyway |
| 17:34.42 | _psychic_ | decouple? |
| 17:35.46 | Lone_Wanderer | yes |
| 17:35.57 | Lone_Wanderer | meaning that all the sections - the orm, the... other stuff |
| 17:36.00 | Lone_Wanderer | are all tied together |
| 17:36.09 | _psychic_ | well yeah: its a framework :) |
| 17:36.10 | Lone_Wanderer | so I can't (as far as I know) use only the orm |
| 17:36.24 | Lone_Wanderer | some frameworks *are* decoupled |
| 17:36.48 | _psychic_ | like zf? |
| 17:36.53 | _psychic_ | its decoupled into oblivion |
| 17:38.03 | _psychic_ | Isn't the whole point of a framework to have a bunch of tools that work really well together? |
| 17:38.46 | Lone_Wanderer | e.e |
| 17:39.17 | Lone_Wanderer | Whatever. |
| 17:39.17 | Lone_Wanderer | The point is, cake doesn't solve my problem. |
| 17:39.17 | _psychic_ | okay |
| 17:39.58 | _psychic_ | I wonder if there are any data access type layers that are any good completely on their own though. |
| 17:40.22 | _psychic_ | Seems like the meat and potatoes of web development methodologies and frameworks is that layer. |
| 17:42.51 | macnewbold | "parts that work well together" is what I'd like in a framework, but what I'd love even more are parts that also work well apart. |
| 17:43.07 | macnewbold | I want to pick and choose which pieces I want from the framework and which I want to do myself |
| 17:43.29 | _psychic_ | that's called a library |
| 17:43.42 | macnewbold | most frameworks I've seen don't have the option to easily pick and choose like that, since it requires decoupling the pieces just enough |
| 17:44.19 | macnewbold | maybe PEAR is the closest thing so far to that goal, but it perhaps falls a little short in the working well together part |
| 17:45.09 | macnewbold | when I think of library, I think of one thing to do one set of related functionality, like an image manipulation library for example |
| 17:46.32 | Lone_Wanderer | So anyway. |
| 17:46.36 | Lone_Wanderer | propel runtime |
| 17:46.48 | bigdog_ut | lol |
| 17:46.56 | bigdog_ut | nice Lone_Wanderer |
| 17:47.08 | Lone_Wanderer | nice what? :p |
| 17:48.27 | macnewbold | I'd love to see a decoupled framework that had all the usual framework stuff, but in a way that lets me use their HTML form helper tools for example, along with their db abstraction thingy, without using their MVC |
| 17:50.00 | _psychic_ | It just seems like "decoupled framework" is a contradiction in terms. I think that might be the reason such an animal is hard to fine. |
| 17:50.04 | _psychic_ | *find |
| 17:50.12 | Lone_Wanderer | man, the spammers are hard at work today |
| 17:50.18 | Lone_Wanderer | try django |
| 17:50.28 | *** join/#uphpu Black_Ch1os (n=admin@70-57-91-148.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 18:00.31 | macnewbold | I'm not saying it is easy to do, but it is definitely possible, and I'd argue useful, and not a contradiction. Imagine if all the "standard" framework parts were joined together by well-documented APIs |
| 18:00.42 | macnewbold | I'd be able to use them seamlessly together, |
| 18:00.50 | macnewbold | or use them separately |
| 18:01.08 | Lone_Wanderer | My initial response to that is "keep dreaming" ;) |
| 18:01.26 | macnewbold | I thought that was one of the goals of object-oriented design - make your objects useful independently of the other objects you designed |
| 18:01.45 | macnewbold | yeah, that's probably true too |
| 18:02.03 | bigdog_ut | if only php had true oo capabilities |
| 18:02.29 | bigdog_ut | but then we could argue that it would loss its free type allowance |
| 18:02.43 | Lone_Wanderer | If only php were Python... |
| 18:02.53 | bigdog_ut | ~hug python |
| 18:03.01 | jbot | ACTION jumps into python's lap and huggles and *hugs* python |
| 18:03.09 | macnewbold | ~lart something |
| 18:03.28 | bigdog_ut | i guess mindjuju is cooking today |
| 18:03.29 | Lone_Wanderer | ~lart contralto |
| 18:03.37 | bigdog_ut | we should make an unscheduled stop for lunch |
| 18:05.51 | Lone_Wanderer | ohhhh, sexy |
| 18:08.26 | xilch|w | those multi tb arrays take forever to format |
| 18:09.09 | xilch|w | bigdog_ut: what controller cards you using? |
| 18:13.31 | bigdog_ut | we are still deciding |
| 18:13.38 | synic | actually, I found that it takes about 5 minutes if you use XFS |
| 18:13.46 | synic | a couple hours for ext3 |
| 18:13.51 | synic | well, maybe an hour |
| 18:14.30 | bigdog_ut | hopefully we can get the formatted before |
| 18:14.52 | bigdog_ut | yeah it does take forever...we did a 3tb and that took 4 hours for ext3 |
| 18:15.38 | synic | xilch|w: that's the one advantage of those adaptec controllers. They let you initialize in the background. The 3ware make you wait, and it takes an hour or two. |
| 18:16.42 | *** join/#uphpu dataw0lf (n=user@64.173.193.1) |
| 18:16.46 | xilch|w | synic: yeah, but the adaptec only supported like, 5 disks per array, right? |
| 18:16.48 | synic | bigdog_ut: we've been all kinds of impressed with the 3ware. They let us throw 16 drives into one big raid-5 |
| 18:16.59 | dataw0lf | Perforce++ |
| 18:17.07 | bigdog_ut | perforce is nice too |
| 18:17.11 | dataw0lf | truuuuue dat |
| 18:17.17 | dataw0lf | sup everyone |
| 18:17.19 | *** join/#uphpu mindjuju (n=mindjuju@65-121-75-195.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 18:17.19 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o mindjuju] by ChanServ |
| 18:17.27 | dataw0lf | morning mindjuju |
| 18:17.40 | bigdog_ut | yeah we will have 3 arrays hopefully at some time...each with 16 drives with scsi 300g drives |
| 18:17.41 | mindjuju | sup dw |
| 18:18.10 | bigdog_ut | ive been looking at xfs for format |
| 18:18.13 | dataw0lf | just working on some XHR stuff. |
| 18:18.27 | dataw0lf | bigdog_ut: probably your best bet after ext3. |
| 18:19.53 | bigdog_ut | big thing is that the file sizes can be huge |
| 18:20.10 | bigdog_ut | so looking at different configs for it |
| 18:20.33 | bigdog_ut | small files are 2mb and big files are 2-300g |
| 18:21.21 | dataw0lf | AdvFS is le best for that, but it's OSF1/Tru64 specific, if memory serves. |
| 18:21.41 | dataw0lf | might be available for HP-UX |
| 18:21.44 | bigdog_ut | yeah...not sure it is supported under centos |
| 18:22.39 | bigdog_ut | advfs is tru64 |
| 18:22.55 | bigdog_ut | nice max file size of 16tb |
| 18:23.19 | dataw0lf | yea, for anything smaller than 1 gig it's kinda bleh, but it scales nicely. |
| 18:23.44 | bigdog_ut | that actually sounds like something we might need to look at |
| 18:24.34 | dataw0lf | you can get StorageWorks equipment fairly cheaply if you don't mind going several years old. |
| 18:24.54 | bigdog_ut | one thing i found with ext3 is directory limits or inodes |
| 18:24.56 | dataw0lf | the drives are a bit expensive, but comparatively it isn't too bad. |
| 18:25.55 | dataw0lf | you can change the max number of inodes upon creation of the filesystem, bigdog_ut |
| 18:26.24 | bigdog_ut | i think it is a kernel setting |
| 18:27.08 | dataw0lf | it's dependent upon the block size |
| 18:27.52 | dataw0lf | you can only get 8kb block size on Alpha and a couple other archs, so you might have to go Alpha anyways, and if you do *shrug* might as well go with Tru64 / AdvFS |
| 18:29.36 | dataw0lf | a 4kb block size might be enough for you though. |
| 18:29.59 | synic | because 'alpha' really is the coolest name for a processor. |
| 18:30.27 | dataw0lf | I'm trying to get rid of one, synic |
| 18:30.28 | dataw0lf | (got two) |
| 18:30.38 | dataw0lf | one has Tru64 4.0f on it, the other Debian |
| 18:30.57 | synic | oh? |
| 18:31.18 | dataw0lf | yar |
| 18:31.31 | synic | what are they? |
| 18:33.24 | synic | brb |
| 18:34.21 | dataw0lf | AlphaStation 500s I believe |
| 18:35.57 | bigdog_ut | dataw0lf, you use the new ext4? |
| 18:36.12 | dataw0lf | Nope. |
| 18:36.59 | dataw0lf | The patchset is interesting, though. |
| 18:37.31 | dataw0lf | It's not revolutionary enough to incur my wrath. |
| 18:37.36 | dataw0lf | so that's good. |
| 18:38.17 | dataw0lf | I wish this developer in Portland would send me the scrubbed database already. Crikey. |
| 18:38.27 | bigdog_ut | i think it just supports more disk space |
| 18:39.28 | dataw0lf | yea, indirect extents, sector_t conversion, etc |
| 18:39.46 | dataw0lf | it's a clever hack on the existing ext3 data structure |
| 18:41.21 | dataw0lf | I truly love the Google Maps API. |
| 18:41.56 | dataw0lf | if me and Python got married, Google Maps would be our illegitimate lovechild. |
| 18:42.01 | dataw0lf | because of a fling with JavaScript |
| 18:42.10 | timinator | LOL |
| 18:42.19 | dataw0lf | :D |
| 18:43.10 | dataw0lf | hey, instance based OOP is just that attractive to me. |
| 18:44.01 | *** join/#uphpu fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 18:44.01 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o fungus] by ChanServ |
| 18:46.52 | dataw0lf | mornin fungus |
| 18:47.36 | fungus | yes, it is morning, though not a good one. |
| 18:47.45 | dataw0lf | uh oh |
| 18:48.01 | fungus | though it rarely is now days anyway. |
| 18:48.33 | dataw0lf | move out to Reno and I'll get you a sweet job |
| 18:48.52 | dataw0lf | anyone know why this JavaScript string object won't split on \n? |
| 18:50.18 | dataw0lf | and how to split a string into a 1 based array rather than zero based? |
| 18:53.29 | *** join/#uphpu burnin (n=burnin@42dbe40a.dsl.aros.net) |
| 18:55.32 | olds | you mean the index starting at 0? |
| 18:55.36 | olds | err 1 |
| 18:58.05 | dataw0lf | correct. Just initialize the Array that way? |
| 18:59.10 | bigdog_ut | what is your code dataw0lf |
| 18:59.55 | olds | I would just initialize it that way |
| 18:59.55 | dataw0lf | XHR to pull database rows and place them on a Google Map, with a bunch of helper user functions |
| 19:00.14 | dataw0lf | Category selection, Polygon selection, etc |
| 19:00.53 | dataw0lf | olds: word. the split method should have that as an argument. damn JS devs. |
| 19:02.50 | dataw0lf | probably should've used my sweet Execute JS addon for Firefox before asking that question. |
| 19:07.22 | dataw0lf | huh. I'm not seeing a way of doing it. |
| 19:07.37 | dataw0lf | nooooooo |
| 19:12.18 | dataw0lf | bigdog_ut: I can't believe I ever used any other versioning system besides Perforce now. |
| 19:13.28 | bigdog_ut | perforce is nice...i used it at enterasys networks for some stuff |
| 19:13.43 | dataw0lf | it's free for OSS dev, too. |
| 19:13.51 | bigdog_ut | yeah |
| 19:14.00 | bigdog_ut | bitkeeper is nice too...but cost $$$ |
| 19:14.14 | dataw0lf | yea, I've used bitkeeper before, I'm thinking I prefer Perforce. |
| 19:15.30 | dataw0lf | I like their merge point imp |
| 19:16.22 | bigdog_ut | labels are nice too |
| 19:16.31 | dataw0lf | yea, and signed revisions |
| 19:17.38 | bigdog_ut | and code props are great...1000x better than cvs |
| 19:19.19 | dataw0lf | heh, everything is 1000x better than CVS ;) |
| 19:22.57 | dataw0lf | heh, I'm retarded |
| 19:24.13 | dataw0lf | I just realized that due to my extraction of this operation to a function, I don't need this switch statement. It never occured to me while I was writing it. |
| 19:26.36 | burnin | are there any websites with good info on php web app architecture? I'm looking at my current method of having a central index.php that handles everything through POSTing of form inputs to transition through the site content but I'm thinking its not such a good idea. |
| 19:27.00 | burnin | I'm concerned that with my current design its impossible for there to be links to content within the site. |
| 19:30.20 | dataw0lf | well, first, you're using POST wrong |
| 19:30.23 | dataw0lf | you should be using GET |
| 19:31.03 | dataw0lf | you can then take the strategic approach of index.php?page=links or whatever, if that suits you. |
| 19:45.22 | macnewbold | btw, it is often a good strategy |
| 19:45.30 | macnewbold | it's also expandable |
| 19:46.06 | macnewbold | for example, you could create a file called links.php that does <? $page="links"; include("index.php"); ?> |
| 19:46.12 | macnewbold | and then you've got real-looking pages |
| 19:46.31 | macnewbold | you could also use the ErrorDocument trick, and skip making the little stub files |
| 19:46.52 | dataw0lf | yea, plus with the separate file (links.php) it's more SEO compatible. |
| 19:47.15 | burnin | search engine? |
| 19:47.20 | dataw0lf | optimization |
| 19:47.28 | dataw0lf | http://www.seomoz.org/articles/search-ranking-factors.php |
| 19:47.31 | dataw0lf | check that site out |
| 19:48.10 | burnin | k, that was my biggest concern with my current setup because it appears that a search engine would not be able to link to the content in the site. |
| 19:56.22 | burnin | time flys, back to work, thanks for the input guys, later... |
| 19:56.45 | mindjuju | yo, i've got a friend looking for a laptop, anybody recommend a seller either online or local |
| 19:56.58 | mindjuju | he's using it mainly for dev |
| 20:04.25 | dataw0lf | Windows? |
| 20:04.33 | mindjuju | yup |
| 20:04.55 | dataw0lf | that's a shame. Tell him to get an IBM Lenovo from eBay. |
| 20:05.05 | mindjuju | i found this one, it seems fairly decent for the price |
| 20:05.05 | mindjuju | http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=2573786&CatId=2511 |
| 20:05.20 | mindjuju | lenovo is pretty good, i'm running around with one and hadn't had any probs |
| 20:05.31 | dataw0lf | they're pretty nice |
| 20:05.42 | dataw0lf | I just got a Serval from System76. |
| 20:07.25 | *** join/#uphpu bradym (n=bradym@bradym.agsci.usu.edu) |
| 20:08.01 | dataw0lf | afternoon bradym |
| 20:08.18 | bradym | hey there... how goes it today/ |
| 20:08.52 | dataw0lf | just merging some code to our depot so I can go to lunch. |
| 20:10.26 | bradym | fun for you... i'm attempting to finish off one of my classes today |
| 20:10.42 | dataw0lf | what class? |
| 20:12.03 | bradym | an interactive media class @ USU. we still have a few weeks till the end of the semester but if we finish all of our projects we don't have to go to class anymore |
| 20:12.38 | olds | sounds.... fun |
| 20:13.20 | bradym | something like that ;) |
| 20:22.48 | dataw0lf | bradym: 'interactive media'? What's that, educational speak for Flash? |
| 20:25.44 | bigdog_ut | anyone use the nvu editor on linux? |
| 20:26.11 | bradym | dataw0lf: more like an introduction to web and a touch of flash from a technical writer point of view... basically i needed an easy class this semester |
| 20:26.42 | bradym | i've played around with it on windoze, but not on linux |
| 20:26.58 | bigdog_ut | does it have code formatter |
| 20:29.03 | dataw0lf | don't use nvu, ew. |
| 20:29.25 | bradym | um.. it will do syntax colors for html, but doesn't appear to do so for php |
| 20:29.37 | bradym | though i might be missing an option or something |
| 20:29.37 | bigdog_ut | oh that sucks |
| 20:31.05 | bradym | i've only really used it as an editor for teaching people html |
| 20:32.23 | swb | interactive media is marketing speak for any web development that isn't static html |
| 20:32.40 | dataw0lf | yea, I know, I was just giving bradym a hard time. |
| 20:32.46 | swb | I know |
| 20:32.57 | swb | oh |
| 20:32.58 | dataw0lf | I know more! |
| 20:33.02 | swb | lol |
| 20:33.06 | dataw0lf | ;-) |
| 20:33.21 | bradym | best part about my interactive media class is that only one project is something besides static html.... |
| 20:33.41 | bigdog_ut | my interactive media class was a java application class |
| 20:33.43 | dataw0lf | sounds like you're really learning something. |
| 20:33.45 | bigdog_ut | go figure on that one |
| 20:34.01 | swb | hey, dataw0lf, didn't you say you were working on something with google maps? how's it going? |
| 20:34.01 | dataw0lf | bigdog_ut: I didn't know they had Java when you went to school. |
| 20:34.11 | bradym | i think i've gone to this class like twice in the past two months |
| 20:34.13 | bigdog_ut | yeah 1.3 |
| 20:34.17 | dataw0lf | bigdog_ut: I thought they were still using abacuses back then |
| 20:34.21 | bigdog_ut | 1.2 really...but i always say 1.3 |
| 20:34.27 | bigdog_ut | tru dat |
| 20:34.43 | swb | I guess interactive media means web development in marketing speak, haha |
| 20:34.44 | bigdog_ut | i rock at fortran and schema |
| 20:34.58 | dataw0lf | swb: pretty good, I've done stuff in Google Maps before, so now for me it's just pinning down a decent way to do an XHR server implementation |
| 20:35.06 | dataw0lf | bigdog_ut: rol |
| 20:35.09 | swb | neat |
| 20:35.33 | dataw0lf | oh, I thought I was slacking off, but it's been lunch time for 20 minutes. yay. |
| 20:36.07 | dataw0lf | swb: yea, Google Maps is <3 |
| 20:36.27 | bigdog_ut | i hate google maps |
| 20:36.37 | swb | you do! y |
| 20:37.40 | dataw0lf | because he's fulfilling the role of my nemesis again, no other reason |
| 20:38.01 | bigdog_ut | give me a sec and ill show you some killer stuff |
| 20:54.36 | bigdog_ut | in a minute _psychic_ i got to wait for the nod from dataw0lf |
| 20:54.46 | bigdog_ut | he might be at lunch now though |
| 20:54.52 | dataw0lf | I'm here |
| 20:55.01 | bigdog_ut | did you get my msg |
| 20:55.27 | dataw0lf | I'm lookin at her right now |
| 20:55.55 | bigdog_ut | i was checking out stanford and it looks great |
| 20:56.03 | dataw0lf | I likes. |
| 20:56.32 | dataw0lf | one of the things I'm writing right now is a tool similar to that 'rubber zoom' |
| 20:56.44 | bigdog_ut | yeah that is nice javascript feature |
| 20:57.04 | bigdog_ut | the only issue we have with this is disk space and io |
| 20:57.09 | bigdog_ut | very intensive |
| 20:57.33 | bigdog_ut | we are creating precached images and that is why i need a huge array |
| 20:57.38 | dataw0lf | yea, looks like it, I was going to do something similar at Aero-Graphics with their photogrammetry images, but, heh, the resources just weren't there. |
| 20:58.05 | bigdog_ut | we will drop about 100k on servers/disks by the end of the year |
| 20:58.20 | bigdog_ut | _psychic_, you ready |
| 20:58.24 | dataw0lf | easily |
| 20:58.28 | _psychic_ | yep |
| 20:58.34 | bigdog_ut | that is just the first phase |
| 20:58.48 | bigdog_ut | i also place gps devices on the map too that is what we are using it for |
| 20:59.22 | dataw0lf | slick |
| 20:59.29 | bigdog_ut | yeah that is killer |
| 21:00.04 | dataw0lf | As soon as I get my new phone, I'm going to have a personal interface to GMaps so I can track where I've been, where I'm at, etc. |
| 21:00.07 | bigdog_ut | i love the javascript movement that we have...ajax behind the seen |
| 21:00.22 | dataw0lf | what's serving the database off? |
| 21:00.39 | bigdog_ut | postgresql + postgis of course |
| 21:00.48 | dataw0lf | No, I mean language wise. |
| 21:00.48 | bigdog_ut | with mapserver behind doing all the image processing |
| 21:01.10 | dataw0lf | mapserver is coolio, but it's a PITA |
| 21:01.22 | bigdog_ut | it is the best by far |
| 21:01.34 | dataw0lf | true enough. doesn't mean it isn't a PITA |
| 21:01.56 | bigdog_ut | unless you have my skillz |
| 21:02.07 | dataw0lf | pfft |
| 21:02.27 | bigdog_ut | the precaching images is what sucks |
| 21:02.47 | bigdog_ut | rendering on the fly sucks ahole |
| 21:03.05 | dataw0lf | when you're dealing with large images, pretty much everything sucks. |
| 21:03.12 | bigdog_ut | true that |
| 21:03.24 | bigdog_ut | we got about 3tb now of images |
| 21:03.57 | dataw0lf | I think we topped out around 50-60 tbs at AG, backup was a nightmare. |
| 21:04.09 | bigdog_ut | yep |
| 21:04.28 | bigdog_ut | for san fran at 350 lvl we are looking at 2tb alone |
| 21:04.43 | dataw0lf | yea, it grows exponentially on you. |
| 21:04.54 | dataw0lf | who you doing this for? |
| 21:04.56 | bigdog_ut | past the 2000 mark it is unreal |
| 21:06.19 | bigdog_ut | we map gps devices over the mapps |
| 21:06.19 | bigdog_ut | for tracking |
| 21:06.19 | dataw0lf | ah |
| 21:06.20 | bigdog_ut | maps are the bread and butter of the application |
| 21:06.20 | dataw0lf | http://www.busmonster.com/ |
| 21:08.23 | dataw0lf | http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/csmoak/blueshape/draw.html? |
| 21:09.52 | bigdog_ut | oh dataw0lf we also use ruby in the background too |
| 21:10.15 | dataw0lf | that language hasn't died yet? darn. |
| 21:10.26 | bigdog_ut | lol...not we use kicking hard here |
| 21:10.32 | *** part/#uphpu beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 21:11.35 | bigdog_ut | now if i said python you would have loved me |
| 21:11.40 | dataw0lf | long time |
| 21:11.50 | dataw0lf | o m g... beandog is a Gentoo developer now? |
| 21:12.10 | dataw0lf | :-) |
| 21:12.27 | bigdog_ut | lol |
| 21:12.33 | bigdog_ut | just wait till im a gentoo dev |
| 21:12.38 | bigdog_ut | the world will end |
| 21:12.43 | dataw0lf | or gentoo will |
| 21:12.46 | dataw0lf | :D |
| 21:12.53 | bigdog_ut | most likely |
| 21:13.12 | Lone_Wanderer | mmmm, python |
| 21:13.45 | dataw0lf | tasty like Eggo waffles |
| 21:15.12 | dataw0lf | time to work again, highlight my name if you need me. |
| 21:35.16 | *** join/#uphpu Black_Ch1os (n=admin@70-57-91-148.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 21:48.59 | bigdog_ut | swb, you around? |
| 21:49.05 | swb | yep |
| 21:56.04 | bigdog_ut | swb, message |
| 22:07.01 | *** join/#uphpu beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 22:07.01 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v beandog] by ChanServ |
| 22:07.52 | *** join/#uphpu Black_Chaos (n=admin@70-57-91-148.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 22:22.10 | dataw0lf | doesn't get much better than free beer and wodka at the office |
| 22:22.34 | swb | more wodka for everyone! |
| 22:22.51 | timinator | wodka?? |
| 22:22.56 | swb | lol |
| 22:23.25 | timinator | is that vodka and you've had a bit too much? |
| 22:23.28 | timinator | :) |
| 22:23.44 | dataw0lf | uh, no. |
| 22:23.57 | dataw0lf | it's the deutsch spelling. |
| 22:24.31 | timinator | deutsch spelling of what? |
| 22:24.37 | dataw0lf | of Vodka. |
| 22:24.57 | timinator | cool |
| 22:25.08 | dataw0lf | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Wodka_gorbatschow.jpg |
| 22:26.19 | timinator | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Jackdaniels.JPG |
| 22:26.25 | timinator | :) |
| 22:26.32 | dataw0lf | my favorite |
| 22:26.48 | dataw0lf | people here are too wuss to drink whiskey, I reckon |
| 22:28.08 | timinator | ya, but I'm from the good ol |
| 22:28.15 | timinator | ol' midwest |
| 22:28.20 | dataw0lf | me too |
| 22:28.39 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: does the stuff actually smell *good* to you? |
| 22:28.48 | dataw0lf | what stuff? |
| 22:28.57 | _psychic_ | whiskey |
| 22:28.59 | dataw0lf | wodka? Not really, I don't like wodka |
| 22:29.07 | dataw0lf | it smells like heaven. |
| 22:29.17 | olds | it smells like rotting wood kinda |
| 22:29.28 | _psychic_ | that's not exactly been my view |
| 22:29.37 | dataw0lf | well, apparently my heaven is a big logpile in the sky, cuz I love the smell of jack |
| 22:30.06 | _psychic_ | I try to steer clear of the rotten smelling stuff |
| 22:30.07 | olds | maybe I'm thinking of com4's courvoiseur (sp?) |
| 22:30.25 | dataw0lf | com4's anything smells bad |
| 22:30.31 | olds | tru that! |
| 22:30.34 | dataw0lf | holla! |
| 22:31.36 | olds | whoever designed this must have thought having redundant data was a good thing |
| 22:31.55 | dataw0lf | olds: yea, tell me about it. |
| 22:32.07 | timinator | I'm out guys |
| 22:32.12 | dataw0lf | peace |
| 22:32.13 | timinator | have a great Thanksgiving |
| 22:32.17 | olds | you too |
| 22:32.17 | dataw0lf | you too |
| 22:32.22 | timinator | thx |
| 22:32.24 | timinator | later |
| 22:33.03 | dataw0lf | olds: you'd think Stanford grads could normalize a 15 table database. I'm here to tell you, they can't. |
| 22:33.29 | bigdog_ut | swb that request has been emailed and you should get a bcc on that |
| 22:33.37 | _psychic_ | normalization is a manner of traveling, not so much a destination |
| 22:33.42 | dataw0lf | which brings me endless levels of amusement after they were mocking me for not graduating. |
| 22:34.07 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: thanks Plato. |
| 22:34.16 | bigdog_ut | roflol |
| 22:34.33 | bigdog_ut | normalization is database enlightenment |
| 22:34.48 | olds | I think difficulty in normalization isn't so much measured by the number of tables as the dependency of the program using it |
| 22:34.56 | dataw0lf | it can also get in the way in a variety of cases. |
| 22:35.24 | bigdog_ut | im all about data warehousing...just put it all in the database anywhere it can fit |
| 22:35.34 | dataw0lf | olds: well, sure, but bringing a 15 table web database to 3NF should be second nature to anyone who has a CS degree. |
| 22:35.43 | olds | true |
| 22:35.52 | olds | stanford grads eh? |
| 22:35.56 | bigdog_ut | i would debate that |
| 22:36.03 | _psychic_ | the complexity of the relations plays alot into it, I'd say |
| 22:36.08 | olds | yea |
| 22:36.08 | dataw0lf | yea, they recruit alot from Stanford here. |
| 22:36.10 | bigdog_ut | there are alot of cs grabs that are unfamiliar with it |
| 22:36.15 | _psychic_ | bigdog_ut: back in your day, maybe it was different. We're a new breed, bro. |
| 22:36.22 | olds | It really depends on the school |
| 22:36.23 | bigdog_ut | sure |
| 22:36.37 | bigdog_ut | i would agree with that |
| 22:36.39 | dataw0lf | and the specific professors teaching DB related material |
| 22:36.42 | olds | at the UofU much more focus on code theory than database design |
| 22:36.55 | olds | computational theory rather |
| 22:36.59 | _psychic_ | my DB prof at the Y was teh suck |
| 22:37.03 | bigdog_ut | actually back in my day you learned more...now days that want to pump cs degrees like gas |
| 22:37.06 | olds | lots of classes on discrete math |
| 22:37.22 | dataw0lf | discrete math. overplayed these days. |
| 22:37.32 | olds | the UofU is a pretty decent CS school from all I've read and the classes I've taken |
| 22:37.33 | bigdog_ut | it is hard to find an good blend of theory and real life |
| 22:37.34 | dataw0lf | as are most theoretical subjects in CS at large universities. |
| 22:37.53 | dataw0lf | bigdog_ut: too true. |
| 22:37.55 | bigdog_ut | you need theory to some degree |
| 22:38.09 | dataw0lf | oh definitely, there's a huge difference between Computer Science and... well, hackery. |
| 22:38.14 | swb | bigdog_ut: thanks! you are the best book finder ever :) |
| 22:38.27 | dataw0lf | but, honestly, I take alot more pride in my hackery skills than anything I was taught in college. |
| 22:39.09 | dataw0lf | it's true, bigdog_ut got skillz in book finding. |
| 22:39.25 | bigdog_ut | still got that |
| 22:39.32 | bigdog_ut | but i do think math is a good thing to have |
| 22:39.41 | bigdog_ut | granted i dont use all my math skillz everyday |
| 22:39.57 | dataw0lf | oh, definitely. as well as most theoretical approaches / subjects focused on in a CS degree. |
| 22:40.00 | bigdog_ut | one thing i hate is that many schools only focus on some langs |
| 22:40.08 | dataw0lf | *cough* Java *cough* |
| 22:40.14 | bigdog_ut | i think that various langs should be studied...taught and reviewed |
| 22:40.23 | bigdog_ut | java is one..cause it is easy |
| 22:40.27 | bigdog_ut | ill admit that |
| 22:40.38 | dataw0lf | I don't think a programming language that limits you to one programming paradigm should be taught in a CS program |
| 22:40.45 | bigdog_ut | i would love to see some older ones too reviewed |
| 22:41.01 | dataw0lf | unless it's like Smalltalk |
| 22:41.16 | olds | They teach Java in the lower level classes, then C++ later on |
| 22:41.22 | bigdog_ut | well i think that many langs should be review...so you have different paradigms and different types of theory practiced |
| 22:41.27 | olds | Some assembly crap |
| 22:41.28 | dataw0lf | I think Lisp, Smalltalk, Python, C, Python, C++, Python should be the focus in university programs |
| 22:41.35 | bigdog_ut | lol |
| 22:41.54 | bigdog_ut | lisp, smalltak, c, c++ , python, java, d |
| 22:42.10 | dataw0lf | hm, D might not be a bad idea. |
| 22:42.18 | dataw0lf | what's the one the military uses? my mind is broken today. |
| 22:42.25 | bigdog_ut | im sure there are others too |
| 22:43.13 | dataw0lf | starts with an A, I think... |
| 22:43.16 | dataw0lf | Ada |
| 22:43.31 | dataw0lf | I'm pretty impressed with Ada... from a theoretical standpoint. |
| 22:43.32 | bigdog_ut | ada is big in europe too |
| 22:43.35 | *** join/#uphpu bradym (n=bradym@bradym.agsci.usu.edu) |
| 22:43.40 | dataw0lf | Is it? |
| 22:43.41 | bigdog_ut | fortran is big in legacy gov |
| 22:43.47 | dataw0lf | well, of course. |
| 22:44.01 | bigdog_ut | assembly would be nice to review too |
| 22:44.07 | dataw0lf | I think everyone should have to learn Haskell too, just so you have something to complain about together during break. |
| 22:44.17 | bigdog_ut | also they dont go over the internals of oses any more |
| 22:44.30 | bigdog_ut | cobol is gov too |
| 22:44.31 | dataw0lf | nowadays requiring assembly seems a bit overkill, but I can understand the reasoning. |
| 22:44.56 | bigdog_ut | i have this debate with people all the time |
| 22:45.04 | bigdog_ut | here is the ideal programmer |
| 22:45.07 | dataw0lf | I dunno, when I went to school in 1999-2001 the internals of OSes were a huge focus. |
| 22:45.10 | bigdog_ut | programming + system administration |
| 22:45.22 | dataw0lf | bigdog_ut: you know I agree with you there. |
| 22:45.33 | bigdog_ut | you get a guy that knows systems and can program...that equals a killer programmer |
| 22:45.36 | olds | yea, I'd agree that there isn't enough focus on system administration |
| 22:45.43 | dataw0lf | bigdog_ut: yea, just look at me. |
| 22:45.46 | dataw0lf | >_< |
| 22:45.57 | bigdog_ut | system admin and also system architecture |
| 22:46.00 | olds | I'd also add in that database classes are few and far between at the UofU (I don't know about other schools) |
| 22:46.04 | bigdog_ut | that knows the hardware |
| 22:46.16 | dataw0lf | more indepth networking classes, every layer of the OSI |
| 22:46.17 | olds | hmmm, we get an overdose of system architecture |
| 22:46.19 | bigdog_ut | olds, i would agree |
| 22:46.22 | dataw0lf | that's going to be a growing focus |
| 22:46.24 | bigdog_ut | dataw0lf, +1 |
| 22:46.32 | bigdog_ut | that even now the layers |
| 22:46.43 | bigdog_ut | at enterasys we interview a lady for networking |
| 22:47.02 | bigdog_ut | we asked about ospf and she busted out the networking book and said yeah pg. 145 |
| 22:47.07 | bigdog_ut | roflol |
| 22:47.28 | bigdog_ut | atleast on the right track i guees |
| 22:47.31 | olds | yea |
| 22:47.39 | dataw0lf | yea, good interview questions, I like to mix up network theory with practical knowledge |
| 22:47.58 | olds | I mean, a big part of any job is knowing how to lookup and solve the problem/dilemma you may face |
| 22:48.01 | dataw0lf | I mean, you can understand how RIP works and not know how to troubleshoot a LAN |
| 22:48.06 | dataw0lf | olds: oh, definitely. |
| 22:48.14 | bigdog_ut | dataw0lf, true...very true |
| 22:48.27 | bigdog_ut | or why routes are not going the way they should |
| 22:48.48 | bigdog_ut | other langs too scheme |
| 22:48.51 | olds | someone tried to put a really big pillow into one of those intarweb tubes |
| 22:49.00 | olds | that's how they get clogged |
| 22:49.09 | dataw0lf | I like to ask people exactly how ARP poisoning works and how to combat it. Easy enough question, but by their answer you can tell how much they know. |
| 22:49.15 | dataw0lf | olds: rol |
| 22:49.59 | olds | I remember ARP poisoning back in the dorms |
| 22:50.07 | dataw0lf | we were interviewing a PHP programmer last week, you should've seen his face when I asked him about ARP poisoning. |
| 22:50.24 | dataw0lf | I think he thought I was asking a question about snakebite treatment |
| 22:51.01 | olds | lol |
| 22:51.19 | *** part/#uphpu bradym (n=bradym@bradym.agsci.usu.edu) |
| 22:51.37 | bigdog_ut | yeah...i would have been like...man that was on double jeopardy last night.... |
| 22:52.44 | swb | I totally want you guys to let me setup mock interviews, you know, to keep our interviewee skillz supa fine |
| 22:52.48 | bigdog_ut | i woudl have said reboot the internet |
| 22:53.00 | dataw0lf | hax the gibson! |
| 22:53.18 | bigdog_ut | is all in th osi model i tell ya |
| 22:53.48 | dataw0lf | or at least the relevant TCP/IP layers |
| 22:54.45 | dataw0lf | I mean, yea, hire a couple guys who don't know em just so you can use their workstations for illegal media storage, but most people should know it. |
| 22:55.32 | dataw0lf | not that I'd do that or anything. |
| 22:57.19 | dataw0lf | need input on the look of this site: homeopinion.com |
| 22:58.12 | bigdog_ut | nice picture of yourself |
| 22:58.13 | swb | can you get a better pic of the guy in the header? he looks like he's squinting |
| 22:58.23 | bigdog_ut | that is dataw0lf |
| 22:58.32 | bigdog_ut | without his hat |
| 22:58.36 | swb | you look like you're squinting |
| 22:58.43 | dataw0lf | I hate you, bigdog_ut. |
| 22:59.01 | dataw0lf | yea, we could probably get a better pic of him. |
| 22:59.06 | swb | looks nice, wondering, y don't you center the design? |
| 22:59.46 | dataw0lf | leaving room for some stuff we're going to add this weekend. |
| 23:00.07 | bigdog_ut | ~arp dataw0lf |
| 23:00.20 | dataw0lf | too bad I have mac addy authentication |
| 23:00.21 | dataw0lf | ha! |
| 23:00.45 | olds | seems like the arrows could be smoother |
| 23:00.48 | olds | they look jagged |
| 23:01.07 | bigdog_ut | yeah |
| 23:01.17 | dataw0lf | alrighty |
| 23:02.19 | swb | I like the ratings stars |
| 23:03.54 | dataw0lf | really? that was one of the graphics I sent back to the art department |
| 23:29.07 | bigdog_ut | too bad php does not have annotations |
| 23:42.00 | *** part/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 23:43.49 | dataw0lf | bigdog_ut: not many languages do. |
| 23:46.02 | bigdog_ut | im starting to like it more and more |
| 23:47.11 | dataw0lf | Python decorators are similar. |
| 23:47.31 | bigdog_ut | yeah |
| 23:47.47 | macnewbold | geeks aren't so good at decorating, so I think it's just as well that php doesn't have decorators |
| 23:58.40 | *** join/#uphpu Black_Ch1os (n=admin@70-57-91-148.slkc.qwest.net) |
