| 00:00.56 | brasto | i looked up the B-52s "Love Shack" because I always thought they said "f***ing in a shack" when they were actually saying "funky little shack" |
| 00:01.49 | brasto | i wouldn't listen to that song for years because of my misunderstanding the lyrics |
| 00:04.51 | beandog | mindjuju: you forgot 'cuz massah's gone away' |
| 00:05.01 | beandog | That's an old song about slavery, to be sure. |
| 00:06.20 | beandog | wow, gotta love wikipedia |
| 00:06.59 | fungus | eww, I never noticed that. I feel dirty now. |
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| 00:43.56 | mindjuju | wow, wps took off before I got back. meant to talk to him |
| 00:44.10 | mindjuju | i hope he didn't take today's conversation too hard |
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| 03:33.11 | mindjuju | i've just seen the stupidest IE 6 bug in the world |
| 03:33.37 | mindjuju | works perfect in FF and IE 7 of course, but in IE 6, this div is out of place by 5 px |
| 03:33.59 | mindjuju | so, i put in margin-right:-5px and it moves it 10 px |
| 03:34.14 | mindjuju | margin-right:1px; still too much, but by a hair |
| 03:34.32 | mindjuju | i have to put in margin-right:0px; and it lines up perfectly |
| 03:34.42 | mindjuju | IE 7 and FF ignore it as a stupid request |
| 03:35.24 | timinator_BRB | crazy |
| 03:35.32 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v timinator] by ChanServ |
| 03:35.53 | timinator | oops, forgot to switch my nick back earlier |
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| 04:40.57 | *** topic/#UPHPU by wps -> macnewbold vs. wps, round 2, Friday at noon… right here on #uphpu! |
| 04:44.26 | mindjuju | hey wps, love the new topic. just wondering, are you leaving that there until macnewbold see it, or were you planning on leaving it there till friday? |
| 04:44.55 | wps | doesn't matter… just making a joke |
| 04:45.10 | wps | you are welcome to change it back to the announcement about tomorrow's lunch |
| 04:45.17 | mindjuju | i figured as much, but just wondering |
| 04:45.33 | wps | go ahead |
| 04:45.51 | mindjuju | nah, let's leave it until mac sees it, he'll get a quick out of it |
| 04:46.30 | mindjuju | yall were exchanging some pretty hefty blows there for a while, though |
| 04:46.44 | wps | hmm… actually, I don't like it |
| 04:46.51 | *** topic/#UPHPU by wps -> UPHPU |
| 04:47.07 | wps | yeah… frustrating |
| 04:47.56 | mindjuju | i thought as much |
| 04:48.30 | wps | I don't know… I shouldn't base opinions off of textual conversation, as it is difficult to communicate |
| 04:49.50 | mindjuju | true, text does lack the ability to express emotion, though i think in this case, a verbal debate would have sounded as heated as words |
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| 04:53.47 | wps | I guess we shouldn't talk about that again… or we won't be friends anymore :) |
| 04:56.35 | mindjuju | yeah, dataw0lf and I got into some huge arguments both here and in PMs. I think a health debate is a good thing, though I think that debate from today was shifting too close to personal aspect of things. And if that is the case, then ya, stay away from that stuff cause it will ruin friendships |
| 05:00.13 | mindjuju | And i think if you look over what was said, you see underneath, it was a discussion between 2 artists as to why they create art. macnewbold formally trained with a CS degree drawing up code. You, formally trained, drawing designs and logos. That's the kind of argument that nobody wins cause you both create art for different reasons |
| 05:00.37 | mindjuju | just my 2 cents |
| 05:03.43 | timinator | I'll add that I don't think the photography industry was ready for the digital age.... the digital age has made a commodity of art... which is hard for an artist to swallow |
| 05:03.58 | wps | indeed |
| 05:04.01 | timinator | (I say that from both perspectives) |
| 05:05.02 | mindjuju | course, I wonder if oil based painters were ready for pictures? |
| 05:05.24 | timinator | they're just getting over the printing press |
| 05:05.48 | timinator | now they have a model for "original artwork" and "prints" |
| 05:06.51 | timinator | that took a while |
| 05:07.34 | mindjuju | are you a photog timinator? |
| 05:07.43 | timinator | I used to be |
| 05:08.06 | mindjuju | nice, what's your weapon of choice? Are you a Canon man, or do you prefer Nikon? |
| 05:08.08 | timinator | but I have both perspectives |
| 05:08.14 | timinator | Canon |
| 05:08.17 | timinator | hands down |
| 05:08.40 | mindjuju | oh yeah, you were drooling for the 20D |
| 05:08.40 | timinator | yes |
| 05:09.09 | mindjuju | yeah, my bro in law who has a photog business in provo says he sends out the photogs in training out to shoot with 20Ds because they are really good for the money |
| 05:09.10 | timinator | what about you wps? |
| 05:09.18 | mindjuju | he's GOT the 20D |
| 05:09.25 | mindjuju | and torments me about it from time to time |
| 05:09.31 | mindjuju | :) |
| 05:09.35 | wps | yes, I have the 20D |
| 05:09.39 | timinator | nice |
| 05:09.55 | wps | part of the problem with when macnewbold and I discuss that issue is that I speak in a general, broad sense and he is speaking specifically about specific examples that are actually the few exceptions that do have grey areas |
| 05:10.04 | wps | I'm concerned with the principle… he's concerned with pennys |
| 05:10.50 | mindjuju | true, i noticed that. Which one is right? |
| 05:10.56 | timinator | I understand... but the principle is from an old model.... pre digital age.... |
| 05:11.02 | wps | both are |
| 05:11.09 | timinator | perfect example: Flickr's success |
| 05:11.20 | timinator | photography is a commodity now |
| 05:11.40 | wps | not completely, timinator |
| 05:11.48 | timinator | anyone w/ a cell phone is now an "artist" |
| 05:11.50 | wps | everyone can take photographs, but not good photographs |
| 05:11.54 | timinator | or at least think they are |
| 05:12.02 | timinator | it's not even about art now |
| 05:12.12 | timinator | I agree wps |
| 05:12.15 | wps | yes, Apple is a perfect example |
| 05:12.20 | timinator | I completely agree |
| 05:12.36 | wps | everyone can make music, photos, web pages, etc, etc, etc |
| 05:12.43 | timinator | yes yes |
| 05:12.47 | wps | so the market is saturated |
| 05:12.58 | timinator | preach it brotha |
| 05:13.26 | timinator | so the industry needs to be flexible |
| 05:13.29 | wps | but even so, there is a difference between something you took with your phone's camera and something professional |
| 05:13.36 | timinator | just as it did when the printing press was invented |
| 05:13.40 | wps | yup |
| 05:13.43 | timinator | yep |
| 05:13.54 | wps | you can pay your sister-in-law to shoot your wedding, or hire a professional |
| 05:14.01 | timinator | yes |
| 05:14.06 | wps | you guys are web guys… you'll understand this example |
| 05:14.58 | wps | ever struggled pitching to a client and trying to convince them to pay you x-grand of dollars to do their project instead of having their sister's boyfriend's brother that "does web pages" do it? |
| 05:15.39 | wps | everyone can do anything now days… we have tools for everything… but tools are just tools |
| 05:15.58 | mindjuju | yeah, i've seen that argument before |
| 05:16.04 | wps | photoshop and illustrator don't make you any more an artist or any more creative then a pencil did in the 1500s |
| 05:16.18 | burnin | wps: with notepad.exe, iexplorer.exe, and your dell super PC you can do anything. :) |
| 05:16.19 | timinator | yes... but I've never had said client give me a General Release Form because he wants to possibly change something in the future |
| 05:16.36 | wps | that's why trade school frustrate the crap out of me |
| 05:17.09 | wps | they teach people photoshop! and then they are designers! |
| 05:17.22 | wps | sheesh |
| 05:17.25 | wps | photoshop is a pencil |
| 05:17.37 | wps | knowing how to click your mouse doesn't qualify you |
| 05:17.47 | timinator | I hear ya.... but we're not talking about quality |
| 05:17.53 | timinator | we're talking about rights |
| 05:18.26 | wps | they are intertwined |
| 05:18.28 | timinator | and technically, the sis-in-law that "does photos" will still technically own the photos she takes |
| 05:18.32 | wps | right exist because of value |
| 05:19.04 | wps | that's right… she does own them |
| 05:19.14 | wps | even if you hire her to shoot your wedding |
| 05:19.17 | timinator | rights exist because the photographic industry is still working off a model that was designed several hundred years ago |
| 05:19.26 | wps | unless she signs away her those rights, she owns the copyright to her work |
| 05:19.30 | timinator | but that model doesn't work for any other industry |
| 05:19.37 | timinator | not for programming |
| 05:20.09 | timinator | not for any other skilled industry |
| 05:20.38 | wps | why not? |
| 05:20.47 | timinator | in every other model, paying for the work done, means that you own the product produced |
| 05:21.34 | timinator | guys... I gotta go... |
| 05:21.41 | wps | example: Adobe produced a kick butt application called Photoshop. I purchased a license to use it. I am happy to pay the license because it's a sweet app. |
| 05:21.42 | mindjuju | cya timinator! |
| 05:21.45 | wps | what doesn't work about that? |
| 05:21.46 | timinator | I don't mean to back out of this conversation |
| 05:22.05 | timinator | LOL |
| 05:22.09 | wps | just kidding |
| 05:22.24 | timinator | dude, I wish I could stay |
| 05:22.29 | timinator | guys, rather |
| 05:22.39 | timinator | cya.... perhaps tomorrow |
| 05:22.42 | wps | and I'm not saying that licensing is the _only_ model… or even the best model |
| 05:22.47 | wps | just saying that it exist and works |
| 05:22.52 | timinator | eek |
| 05:22.54 | wps | s/exist/exists/ |
| 05:22.58 | timinator | I gotta go |
| 05:23.10 | timinator | **but I want to stay |
| 05:23.14 | mindjuju | get out of here timinator, we'll pick this up tomorrow |
| 05:23.23 | timinator | let's all chat tomorrow |
| 05:23.33 | timinator | LOL |
| 05:23.42 | wps | cluck |
| 05:23.44 | wps | cluck |
| 05:23.57 | timinator | wps: you , me, noon tomorrow |
| 05:24.01 | wps | :) |
| 05:24.02 | wps | just kidding |
| 05:24.08 | burnin | wps: it works, but it can be abused in the market. |
| 05:24.09 | timinator | :) |
| 05:24.10 | wps | see you |
| 05:24.13 | wps | agreed |
| 05:24.14 | timinator | later |
| 05:24.25 | wps | ha ha ha |
| 05:25.30 | wps | get this, mindjuju |
| 05:25.40 | wps | we launched our new site two weeks ago |
| 05:25.43 | wps | and get this stat |
| 05:26.02 | mindjuju | who you work for doba or was that a contract? |
| 05:26.11 | wps | yes, Doba |
| 05:27.05 | wps | before, of first visit users that would land on our home page, 24% would click to something deeper within the site |
| 05:27.10 | wps | but my new design? |
| 05:27.21 | wps | 72%! |
| 05:27.28 | mindjuju | that's awesome! |
| 05:27.39 | mindjuju | i strolled around doba the other day that i saw the ad |
| 05:27.42 | burnin | what did you change in the design? |
| 05:27.51 | wps | just about everything :) |
| 05:27.54 | wps | we reskinned |
| 05:27.55 | burnin | put naked ladies on all the links? :) |
| 05:29.18 | mindjuju | it's a good site -- well thought out |
| 05:29.27 | wps | before: http://anavidesign.com/site/images.portfolio/t_web_doba.jpg |
| 05:29.31 | wps | after: http://doba.com |
| 05:29.31 | burnin | so aesthetics alone improved the click through or just a better interface? |
| 05:29.40 | wps | no, not just asthetics |
| 05:29.59 | wps | aesthetics + a much improved interface |
| 05:30.22 | wps | better organized, better structured, better focused, better functionality |
| 05:30.40 | wps | lots of research and testing |
| 05:30.51 | wps | heat maps, tracking, click-paths |
| 05:31.50 | mindjuju | heat maps = sexy SEO word of the day |
| 05:32.04 | mindjuju | it means the place that eyes naturally gravitate to on a web page |
| 05:32.04 | burnin | the jpegs are kinda small, the two sites look very similar, but their appear to be menus on the new site |
| 05:33.01 | mindjuju | your prime content should be there, in the case of doba, the pathing is front center |
| 05:34.13 | mindjuju | ugh, why isn't di.fm playing anything good tonight |
| 05:34.24 | mindjuju | it's like 10 techno channels of garbage |
| 05:36.01 | burnin | so what is doba.com? is it a live production website? |
| 05:36.45 | burnin | the description for the Airinix air intake for the Subaru Impreza WRX is a long ####### that goes off the right side of the page. |
| 05:36.45 | wps | product sourcing |
| 05:37.03 | wps | we connect small business (mostly online retailers) with products to sell |
| 05:37.06 | wps | drop shipping |
| 05:37.10 | wps | no inventory or overhead |
| 05:37.47 | burnin | so you connect business to business or business to consumer? |
| 05:38.00 | wps | b2b |
| 05:38.07 | burnin | ah k |
| 05:38.14 | burnin | the site looks nice |
| 05:38.18 | burnin | all css, no tables? |
| 05:38.22 | wps | thanks |
| 05:38.37 | wps | no, there are tables… where tables should be used |
| 05:38.47 | wps | but yes, it is cutting edge XHTML/CSS |
| 05:38.54 | wps | only the best |
| 05:48.16 | mindjuju | hey, don't mean to pry, wps, but wondering what up with all the iframes? |
| 05:48.29 | mindjuju | if it's top secret stuff, i'll understand, just curious |
| 05:49.04 | wps | ajax navigation that's launching tomorrow! |
| 05:49.16 | wps | you'll be able to burrow down through the catalog without the page refreshing |
| 05:49.54 | mindjuju | cool! was going to say -- i'll have to check it out tomorrow |
| 05:53.51 | mindjuju | how do you like working with revenue science? have they been effective in your marketing strategy? |
| 05:54.19 | wps | revenue science? |
| 05:54.51 | mindjuju | yeah, about 2/3 way down on site, there is some JS for a revsci.net |
| 05:55.06 | mindjuju | that linked to a co called revenuescience |
| 05:55.23 | wps | ah… I think we are just starting that |
| 05:55.35 | mindjuju | targeted marketing, seems like a good strategy |
| 05:56.03 | wps | yes, we're starting some projects with that |
| 05:56.14 | wps | I'm not involved with that thought |
| 05:56.19 | wps | that's the marketing department |
| 05:57.16 | mindjuju | bummer. i might actually have to call these guys. i've PO'd for a special budget for online advertising, were going to use google adwords, but the ideas presented here are interesting |
| 05:57.20 | mindjuju | that's why i was wondering |
| 05:57.57 | mindjuju | wow, their cleints is a who's who |
| 06:00.00 | mindjuju | oh well, better get back to work |
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| 15:16.51 | *** topic/#uphpu is UPHPU | http://www.uphpu.org | Utah PHP User Group |
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| 15:30.25 | bigdog_ut | gm all |
| 15:30.39 | jsmith | Howdy bigdog_ut |
| 15:30.49 | bigdog_ut | whatz up mr smith |
| 15:31.05 | jsmith | Trying to figure out some buffering things w/ icecast |
| 15:31.22 | bigdog_ut | nice nice |
| 15:31.30 | jsmith | Beats digging ditches |
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| 15:35.00 | timinator | morning all |
| 15:35.32 | jsmith | Howdy timinator |
| 15:36.48 | timinator | wassup jsmith |
| 15:37.30 | jsmith | Trying to figure out some buffering things w/ icecast |
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| 15:39.15 | design5279 | q |
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| 15:54.12 | drip | good mornin' on ya |
| 16:03.18 | timinator | mornin drip |
| 16:07.36 | drip | how's your day timinator? |
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| 16:39.22 | bigdog_ut | ~note |
| 16:39.23 | jbot | commandline note tool. URL: http://www.daemon.de/software.html |
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| 17:34.47 | mindjuju | outsourcing tech is one thing, outsourcing medical??? you got to be kidding! |
| 17:34.48 | mindjuju | http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061102/ap_on_he_me/outsourcing_health |
| 17:36.22 | _psychic_ | "Salary range is |
| 17:36.23 | _psychic_ | 40k to 80k per year dependent on experience." (UPHPU-jobs) ;) |
| 17:37.40 | wps | what kind of experience are they looking for? experience that deserves 40k? or 80k? |
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| 17:45.11 | _psychic_ | wps: I just think its a rather wide range |
| 17:45.35 | wps | yes, that's what I meant too |
| 17:45.37 | wps | it's stupid |
| 17:45.46 | wps | how does anyone know what they are looking for? |
| 17:46.39 | *** topic/#UPHPU by wps -> Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org |
| 17:46.44 | wps | clear |
| 17:46.59 | Lenolium | Perhaps they have a position that they can fill with a newbie, but have enough cash to hire a fairly experienced guy |
| 17:49.44 | _psychic_ | seems like php devs are in demand lately |
| 17:54.06 | Lenolium | Yeah, I'm looking to hire a few guys, the place I'm working at is looking at starting a Salt Lake office because the people and places are cheaper than San Jose. |
| 17:54.34 | _psychic_ | we're hiring too |
| 17:54.56 | _psychic_ | Lenolium: what's the name/URL of your outfit? |
| 17:55.18 | Lenolium | _psychic_: SugarCRM, http://www.sugarcrm.com/ |
| 17:56.09 | _psychic_ | nice |
| 17:59.53 | Lenolium | _psychic_: What about you? |
| 18:01.36 | timinator | wps: you got an hour Mr. Photographer |
| 18:01.48 | wps | an hour? |
| 18:01.55 | timinator | high noon |
| 18:02.00 | wps | oh :) |
| 18:02.07 | timinator | :) |
| 18:02.28 | timinator | you feelin' lucky, punk? |
| 18:03.36 | _psychic_ | Lenolium: http://mediarain.com |
| 18:05.39 | Lenolium | _psychic_: Ahh. I get a nice big window of "Plugin not found". amd64/linux has some advantages, no flash is one of my favorite. :) |
| 18:08.50 | _psychic_ | Lenolium: that page isn't for developers so much as it is clients :) |
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| 18:13.42 | Utah_Dave | Lenolium: where's your office going to be in SLC? |
| 18:15.10 | Lenolium | Utah_Dave: It's just in the discussion phase right now but probably somewhere mid-valley 40-70th south'ish |
| 18:17.29 | Utah_Dave | cool. Be sure to send an email to uphpu-jobs when you're hiring. I really like sugarcrm. I've installed and customized it a few times for some clients |
| 18:19.11 | Lenolium | Utah_Dave: Well, if you are interested, ship me off a resume to rob@sugarcrm.com and I'll get it to the right people, I think we are hiring for both engineering and professional services (I'm in professional services) |
| 18:20.00 | macnewbold | what's the difference between the two, Lenolium? |
| 18:20.35 | macnewbold | so Lenolium, are you here in SLC telecommuting, or in San Jose? |
| 18:20.38 | Lenolium | Engineering builds the product, Professional Services builds whatever the customer wants (regardless of if it goes back in to the client) |
| 18:20.52 | Lenolium | I'm telecommuting, we also have another guy out here doing the same. |
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| 18:55.45 | wps | :) |
| 18:56.05 | timinator | :) |
| 18:56.26 | wps | ~burnin |
| 19:00.58 | burnin | ??? |
| 19:01.23 | wps | apparently jbot doesn't know you |
| 19:01.56 | wps | do you have an iron stove door lashed to your chest? |
| 19:02.10 | timinator | wouldn't you like to know |
| 19:02.14 | timinator | :) |
| 19:03.05 | burnin | wps: nah, I think jbot knows what I do to bots and has issues. http://bothell.chaogenus.org/ |
| 19:03.38 | wps | wow |
| 19:03.42 | wps | no wonder he was silent |
| 19:04.21 | timinator | I'd keep my mouth shut too |
| 19:04.47 | timinator | wps: "Nobody calls me chicken" |
| 19:04.49 | timinator | LOL |
| 19:07.09 | timinator | It's high noon wps.... you got anything to say? |
| 19:07.20 | wps | it's seven past |
| 19:07.24 | wps | Mac didn't show |
| 19:07.48 | timinator | this is between you and me |
| 19:07.54 | timinator | you leave mac out of this |
| 19:07.59 | timinator | :) |
| 19:08.55 | *** kick/#uphpu [timinator!n=wps@64.72.210.10] by wps (wps) |
| 19:09.06 | *** join/#uphpu timinator (n=timinato@c-67-171-118-199.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:09.06 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v timinator] by ChanServ |
| 19:09.28 | timinator | LOL |
| 19:09.36 | wps | :) |
| 19:09.39 | timinator | :) |
| 19:10.50 | timinator | huh... thought so |
| 19:11.56 | *** join/#uphpu brasto (n=brasto@71-32-236-165.slkc.qwest.net) |
| 19:11.56 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v brasto] by ChanServ |
| 19:20.37 | *** join/#uphpu mindjuju (n=mindjuju@65-121-75-195.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 19:20.37 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o mindjuju] by ChanServ |
| 19:25.50 | timinator | mondjuju... wps has nothing to say today |
| 19:26.49 | macnewbold | mindjuju has nothing to say today either |
| 19:26.59 | timinator | :) |
| 19:27.13 | macnewbold | hey, I'm here, what's up with calling me out, wps? |
| 19:28.43 | timinator | :) |
| 19:29.13 | wps | I didn't call you out. I was chuckling with mindjuju about how the conversation turned out yesterday and it turned into a western dual joke with timinator |
| 19:29.47 | timinator | we had a little rehash of yesterday's conversation... but it was just as I had to go... so we agreed to meet at noon today |
| 19:29.47 | timinator | yep |
| 19:30.08 | timinator | I'm wearing a stetson and chaps! |
| 19:30.09 | timinator | CHAPS!!! |
| 19:30.10 | mindjuju | i hope that's not all your wearing timinator |
| 19:30.14 | timinator | oh, and an iron stove door under my shirt |
| 19:30.18 | timinator | LOL |
| 19:30.35 | timinator | (well, I do have a bow tie) |
| 19:30.39 | timinator | ROTF |
| 19:30.41 | timinator | LOL |
| 19:30.50 | wps | oh, nasty |
| 19:31.27 | mindjuju | that's too funny. |
| 19:31.29 | timinator | watch what you say wps, I still have a dueling pistol on my hip |
| 19:31.51 | timinator | :) |
| 19:31.55 | wps | is that what you call it? |
| 19:32.10 | timinator | OH |
| 19:32.16 | wps | sorry |
| 19:32.48 | brasto | ~chaps |
| 19:33.03 | mindjuju | ~timinator |
| 19:33.05 | jbot | timinator is probably the person formally known as timothy_, or owns his own business |
| 19:33.40 | *** topic/#UPHPU by wps -> UTCACA |
| 19:34.39 | timinator | I got nothin' wps |
| 19:34.42 | timinator | LOL |
| 19:35.00 | timinator | I'm still trying to get off the floor from my ROTFL |
| 19:35.40 | *** join/#uphpu design5279 (i=jlo@xmission.xmission.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 19:36.00 | mindjuju | jbot, timinator is also likes to wear a stetson and chaps with nothing else on! |
| 19:36.01 | jbot | mindjuju: okay |
| 19:36.06 | mindjuju | ~timinator |
| 19:36.07 | jbot | [timinator] the person formally known as timothy_, or owns his own business, or likes to wear a stetson and chaps with nothing else on! |
| 19:36.17 | timinator | lol |
| 19:38.05 | brasto | ~chaps |
| 19:38.07 | jbot | chaps are cowboy pants, made of leather, that do not attach like normal pants - they only attach at the belt line. |
| 19:38.28 | mindjuju | ~commando |
| 19:38.29 | jbot | [commando] damn cool with the emul on wince but the problem is u cant run and shoot |
| 19:38.49 | timinator | lol |
| 19:39.05 | mindjuju | jbot, forget commando |
| 19:39.06 | timinator | you know all sorts of things, don't ya jbot |
| 19:41.12 | mindjuju | ~going commando |
| 19:41.41 | mindjuju | jbot, going commando is walking outside of your house without boxers or briefs |
| 19:41.42 | jbot | okay, mindjuju |
| 19:41.47 | mindjuju | ~going commando |
| 19:41.48 | jbot | somebody said going commando was walking outside of your house without boxers or briefs |
| 19:42.10 | mindjuju | ~burnin |
| 19:42.40 | mindjuju | jbot, burnin is a person who likes "going commando" |
| 19:42.41 | jbot | mindjuju: okay |
| 19:42.49 | mindjuju | ~burnin |
| 19:42.51 | jbot | burnin is probably a person who likes "going commando" |
| 19:43.51 | timinator | nice |
| 19:44.28 | mindjuju | yup |
| 19:44.39 | mindjuju | anybody have any idea what UTCACA is? |
| 19:44.44 | mindjuju | ~utcaca |
| 19:45.28 | *** topic/#UPHPU by wps -> UTCACT |
| 19:46.15 | burnin | when you suddenly realize the nurse has plans for the hyperdermic other than your arm suddenly going commando becomes a liability. |
| 19:46.43 | burnin | back to work... |
| 20:01.19 | mindjuju | site should be back up |
| 20:07.06 | *** join/#uphpu atoponce (n=aaron@c-24-2-85-66.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 20:07.07 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v atoponce] by ChanServ |
| 20:21.19 | wps | ~utcact |
| 20:21.44 | timinator | ~utcaca |
| 20:21.47 | jbot | well, utcaca is the Utah Traveling Circus and Comedy Troop |
| 20:21.55 | timinator | NICE |
| 20:23.14 | mindjuju | that's pretty cool. mind if i change it back to the reminder about tommorow's lunch? |
| 20:23.27 | wps | jbot, forget utcaca |
| 20:23.28 | jbot | i forgot utcaca, wps |
| 20:23.33 | wps | go ahead, mindjuju |
| 20:23.40 | wps | macnewbold++ |
| 20:24.17 | bigdog_ut | mindjuju, you changing the topic? |
| 20:24.25 | mindjuju | yup |
| 20:24.35 | mindjuju | why, you got something you want to add to topic? |
| 20:24.52 | *** topic/#UPHPU by wps -> bigdog_ut is the greatest programmer of them all |
| 20:25.53 | *** topic/#UPHPU by mindjuju -> Geek Lunch - Tomorrow is Geek Lunch @ 12:30p @ Thai Village in Am Fork |
| 20:29.31 | mindjuju | are you going to be able to go, wps? |
| 20:29.50 | wps | no, not to lunch tomorrow |
| 20:29.57 | wps | but I should be at the next meeting |
| 20:30.08 | mindjuju | bummer about lunch |
| 20:30.34 | mindjuju | i think next lunch i'll be the one in bountiful if timinator, drip and bigdog_ut can go |
| 20:30.57 | mindjuju | that el_gaucho punk though should definitely not be invited! |
| 20:31.07 | *** topic/#UPHPU by bigdog_ut -> Geek Lunch - Tomorrow is Geek Lunch @ 12:30p @ Thai Village in Am Fork | UPHPU | http://www.uphpu.org |
| 20:31.30 | bigdog_ut | right..he is a crazy sucker |
| 20:32.03 | timinator | when is that following lunch? |
| 20:32.16 | mindjuju | a month from tomorrow |
| 20:32.20 | drip | I should be able to make one in Bountiful. |
| 20:32.45 | timinator | a month from tomorrow should be good for me |
| 20:32.45 | mindjuju | so that looks like Dec 1st |
| 20:33.00 | mindjuju | coolio. bigdog_ut, how bout you? |
| 20:33.24 | bigdog_ut | im fine with that |
| 20:33.42 | bigdog_ut | we should send out an fyi to the mailing list |
| 20:33.51 | bigdog_ut | announcements and perhaps on the website |
| 20:34.01 | mindjuju | fyi for this month's or next? |
| 20:34.14 | mindjuju | cause this month, i just sent |
| 20:34.45 | timinator | I agree for sending out a notice now for next month |
| 20:34.53 | drip | yar |
| 20:35.04 | bigdog_ut | next month too |
| 20:35.10 | bigdog_ut | then i can add that to my calendar |
| 20:35.16 | bigdog_ut | we also need a place to eat? |
| 20:35.24 | drip | you mean write it on your hand? |
| 20:35.36 | mindjuju | i thought we had that part hammered out |
| 20:35.38 | bigdog_ut | yeah on my |
| 20:36.00 | mindjuju | a place in bountiful, Italian place, name is slipping my mind |
| 20:36.06 | drip | robintinos probably |
| 20:36.11 | mindjuju | yup, that's the one |
| 20:36.35 | drip | they have good grubbage. |
| 20:36.53 | mindjuju | haven't eaten there, but several were saying it was good eats |
| 20:37.06 | macnewbold | yeah, it's good |
| 20:37.15 | macnewbold | there's one in SLC that I've been two several times |
| 20:37.40 | drip | they made one that was a "to go" version in Syracuse but I think it flopped since it wasn't the usual sit down |
| 20:37.43 | wps | macnewbold: why is your nick greyed out? |
| 20:37.51 | timinator | Is it an italian rest w/ Italians in it? or an italian rest w/ caucasians in it? |
| 20:38.04 | drip | yes |
| 20:38.07 | drip | =) |
| 20:38.11 | macnewbold | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:38.13 | macnewbold | hm |
| 20:38.16 | macnewbold | it's blue for me |
| 20:38.18 | wps | ah, looks like you're marked as away |
| 20:38.29 | macnewbold | sohuld be fixed now |
| 20:38.31 | drip | red for me.. just not as bright as ChanServ |
| 20:38.34 | drip | lol |
| 20:38.41 | wps | nope |
| 20:38.42 | wps | still grey |
| 20:39.11 | macnewbold | weird |
| 20:39.14 | macnewbold | I'm not away though |
| 20:39.28 | wps | I didn't even know that you could have away status' in IRC |
| 20:39.47 | *** part/#uphpu wps (n=wps@64.72.210.10) |
| 20:39.49 | *** join/#uphpu wps (n=wps@64.72.210.10) |
| 20:39.49 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 20:39.51 | macnewbold | hm |
| 20:39.58 | wps | Utah_Dave: is the same |
| 20:45.02 | bigdog_ut | yes you can have away status in irc |
| 20:45.16 | bigdog_ut | wps just kick macnewbold and it will reset |
| 20:45.26 | _psychic_ | :) |
| 20:45.53 | macnewbold | ~kick bigdog_ut in the head |
| 20:45.56 | jbot | bugger off, macnewbold! |
| 20:46.02 | macnewbold | ~boot to the head bigdog_ut |
| 20:46.03 | jbot | ACTION inconspicously shuffles over to get a straight line across to the head bigdog_ut to the window above the dumpster, takes aim, and punts to the head bigdog_ut out to where he belongs! |
| 20:46.05 | bigdog_ut | thank you jbot |
| 20:46.07 | macnewbold | ~boottothehead bigdog_ut |
| 20:46.29 | macnewbold | apparently it won't notice that I'm not away anymore |
| 20:47.17 | _psychic_ | macnewbold: do /away |
| 20:47.27 | fungus | I think it is a client thing. My client doesn't show you as away. |
| 20:47.30 | bigdog_ut | macnewbold, you are present now |
| 20:47.59 | bigdog_ut | el_guacho is some ahole from layton |
| 20:48.26 | bigdog_ut | and dont listen to him...he is like timinator_BRB thinking he knows everything |
| 20:48.42 | bigdog_ut | he is usually on at night |
| 20:49.02 | bigdog_ut | works from home or something...what a pansy waste |
| 20:50.15 | macnewbold | yeah, it is |
| 20:50.24 | macnewbold | too much crack for bigdog_ut |
| 20:50.41 | bigdog_ut | bigdog_ut's version |
| 20:51.01 | macnewbold | yeah, his crack is alfajores |
| 20:51.02 | bigdog_ut | i just smoke as much as macnewbold does |
| 20:51.10 | bigdog_ut | o' yeah |
| 20:51.28 | macnewbold | and if he gets tired of alfajores, he tries betajores, or just any old jores |
| 20:51.32 | brasto | alfajores? |
| 20:51.38 | brasto | ~alfajores |
| 20:51.42 | _psychic_ | haha |
| 20:51.45 | bigdog_ut | some gaucho thing |
| 20:51.45 | macnewbold | ~alfajor |
| 20:51.47 | jbot | Cookie Filter (Python). URL: http://www.andrewcooke.free-online.co.uk/jara/alfajor/index.html |
| 20:52.24 | brasto | i know what alf is... |
| 20:52.27 | brasto | ~alf |
| 20:52.28 | jbot | alf is, like, kandalf - kand, or a muppet alien from outer space |
| 20:52.32 | bigdog_ut | ~wiki alfajor |
| 20:52.41 | brasto | i added the bit about the muppet alien... |
| 20:53.10 | bigdog_ut | it is a small piece of heaven |
| 20:54.04 | bigdog_ut | macnewbold, i could go for a alfajor triple |
| 20:54.06 | macnewbold | jbot: alfajor is a kind of sandwich cookie, especially popular in Argentina, made with two or more thin cookies and dulce de leche (milk caramel) sandwiched in between, and sometimes covered with shreded coconut, milk chocolate, dark chocolate, or white chocolate |
| 20:54.08 | jbot | ...but alfajor is already something else... |
| 20:54.09 | *** join/#uphpu watermouse (n=byronw@66.236.72.126.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 20:54.28 | macnewbold | jbot: alfajores is a kind of sandwich cookie, especially popular in Argentina, made with two or more thin cookies and dulce de leche (milk caramel) sandwiched in between, and sometimes covered with shreded coconut, milk chocolate, dark chocolate, or white chocolate |
| 20:54.30 | jbot | okay, macnewbold |
| 20:55.42 | brasto | this one's funny: |
| 20:55.46 | brasto | ~kandalf |
| 20:55.47 | jbot | kandalf is probably the stupid wizard which welcomes new KDE users |
| 20:55.55 | brasto | lol |
| 20:56.07 | wps | http://freestone.blogspot.com/uploaded_images/try-748898.jpg |
| 20:57.24 | wps | why not? |
| 20:58.10 | brasto | is it someone you know? |
| 20:58.15 | wps | nope |
| 20:58.18 | brasto | lol |
| 21:17.02 | fungus | http://youtube.com/watch?v=BqFRBHPIE-w |
| 21:20.31 | mindjuju | that's funny |
| 21:42.38 | *** join/#uphpu jsmith (n=jsmith@000-178-815.area3.spcsdns.net) |
| 21:42.38 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v jsmith] by ChanServ |
| 21:43.47 | brasto | what do y'all think of the layout I have for articles on my test site: |
| 21:43.56 | brasto | http://bstout.securesites.net/?catID=117&artID=1&page=1 |
| 21:44.20 | brasto | that's the only article right now, and it's not as complete as the one on my mscis.org |
| 21:44.55 | brasto | original at mscis.org: http://mscis.org/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=71 |
| 21:46.48 | macnewbold | anyone here do Ruby on Rails? |
| 21:46.52 | macnewbold | there's a guy Jeff Burningham <jeff@jsbconsultinggroup.com> |
| 21:47.03 | macnewbold | who sent a message to UPHPU about a job opportunity back in july |
| 21:47.05 | *** join/#uphpu dw (n=cyixevoa@dialup-4.246.108.50.Dial1.SanJose1.Level3.net) |
| 21:47.08 | macnewbold | and now is looking for a rails person |
| 21:47.13 | macnewbold | contact him if you're interested |
| 21:47.42 | timinator | whatever bigdog_ut |
| 21:47.52 | bigdog_ut | lol |
| 21:47.56 | bigdog_ut | about time timinator |
| 21:47.58 | mindjuju | dataw0lf? |
| 21:48.14 | dataw0lf | holla |
| 21:48.19 | _psychic_ | heeeey |
| 21:48.21 | mindjuju | sup dude! |
| 21:48.28 | dataw0lf | wasssssssup |
| 21:48.41 | _psychic_ | brasto: too much whitespace... its hard to tell where things start and end |
| 21:48.47 | mindjuju | did you get my message through myspace? |
| 21:48.49 | timinator | what's up dataw0lf, where ya been looser? |
| 21:48.55 | macnewbold | ~seen dataw0lf |
| 21:48.59 | jbot | dataw0lf is currently on #uphpu. Has said a total of 2 messages. Is idling for 31s, last said: 'wasssssssup'. |
| 21:49.05 | macnewbold | wow, he's back |
| 21:49.13 | macnewbold | we were up to like many months before |
| 21:49.15 | bigdog_ut | ^5 dataw0lf |
| 21:49.22 | macnewbold | ~welcome dataw0lf |
| 21:49.26 | jbot | [all in unison] Hi, dataw0lf! |
| 21:49.27 | dataw0lf | wish I'd known about the Geek Lunch earlier I would've flown to SLC, need to pick up some stuff anyways |
| 21:49.27 | macnewbold | ~greet dataw0lf |
| 21:49.29 | jbot | ACTION dumps a bucket of cold oatmeal on dataw0lf |
| 21:49.29 | dataw0lf | ^5 bigdog_ut |
| 21:49.30 | brasto | _psychic_ - so use borders around more <div>'s and <ul>'s? |
| 21:49.43 | bigdog_ut | its been awhile brother dataw0lf |
| 21:49.44 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: shore did, that's what reminded me to join back up. |
| 21:49.47 | macnewbold | so dw, what you been up to? |
| 21:49.51 | _psychic_ | brasto: something... that or background colors for navigational stuff |
| 21:50.03 | dataw0lf | living up in the Sierra Nevadas, working as a senior web dev for a thinktank here |
| 21:50.04 | macnewbold | where you at now? |
| 21:50.07 | dataw0lf | in Reno |
| 21:50.08 | macnewbold | nice |
| 21:50.28 | mindjuju | i've heard cool things about Reno |
| 21:50.30 | dataw0lf | yea, bout to get my snowboardin on, I'm like half a mile from a nice ski resort. |
| 21:50.33 | macnewbold | we do the geek lunch every month now, so you're welcome to come to the next one at least |
| 21:50.39 | macnewbold | cool |
| 21:50.52 | dataw0lf | I'm down. |
| 21:50.58 | bigdog_ut | yeah and you might see my good looking self |
| 21:51.03 | macnewbold | haha |
| 21:51.05 | dataw0lf | ;-) |
| 21:51.10 | macnewbold | where's that self every time I've seen you? |
| 21:51.16 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 21:51.27 | macnewbold | j/k |
| 21:51.29 | dataw0lf | I've only seen bigdog's dark side |
| 21:51.30 | macnewbold | partly |
| 21:51.34 | bigdog_ut | lol |
| 21:51.39 | brasto | _psychic_ - what about the navbar page numbers? good or bad as you see it? |
| 21:51.42 | dataw0lf | s/dark/hairy |
| 21:51.59 | bigdog_ut | sometimes hairy is good right? |
| 21:52.06 | _psychic_ | brasto: any particular reason you're paginating things? |
| 21:52.14 | dataw0lf | yea, my girlfriend has me growing a beard, so I guess so |
| 21:53.05 | dataw0lf | bigdog_ut: but yea, finally found that Python web dev job I was looking for. |
| 21:53.21 | bigdog_ut | nice about time |
| 21:53.22 | brasto | _psychic_ it will have alternative "all-in-one" page views and paginated views |
| 21:53.28 | mindjuju | dag, kickin' it in reno. how was cali? |
| 21:53.33 | brasto | pages will be longer though, not tiny sections like this |
| 21:53.47 | brasto | i only made tiny sections so i had test pages to work with |
| 21:53.53 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: pretty nice surfin'. got myself trapped in a relationship by a woman. |
| 21:54.13 | dataw0lf | trying to gnaw my foot off to escape the dang thing right now. |
| 21:54.33 | mindjuju | sounds like she went psycho hoseBeast on ya |
| 21:54.37 | dataw0lf | (she has started punching me over that statement) |
| 21:54.52 | brasto | pagination for long articles might be good for faster load (one section/page at a time). |
| 21:54.59 | dataw0lf | oh, my first one went psycho hosebeast |
| 21:55.19 | dataw0lf | she's been trying to email bomb me |
| 21:55.23 | dataw0lf | pretty wacko |
| 21:55.30 | mindjuju | sounds like it |
| 21:55.49 | brasto | dataw0lf - is there a Nevada PHP Users Group? |
| 21:55.57 | dataw0lf | I pretty much have a nose for crazy women. |
| 21:56.03 | dataw0lf | brasto: Negative. |
| 21:56.46 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: All I got to say is never date a girl who attends or has attended UCSB |
| 21:57.17 | mindjuju | yeah, college girls can go weird quick |
| 21:57.26 | mindjuju | never had one throw punches though |
| 21:57.35 | timinator | no doubt |
| 21:57.53 | dataw0lf | oh, you know how my tongue can be fairly sharp at times, I'm a little too sarcastic, so it was partly my fault. |
| 21:58.34 | dataw0lf | 'twas all in good fun |
| 21:58.43 | dataw0lf | they just don't like to be called Chubby McGee, apparently. |
| 21:58.53 | mindjuju | wow! |
| 21:58.53 | timinator | ha ha ha |
| 21:58.56 | *** part/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 21:58.58 | mindjuju | yeah, hmmmm... |
| 21:59.02 | timinator | NICE |
| 21:59.02 | *** join/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 21:59.03 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+o Utah_Dave] by ChanServ |
| 21:59.17 | dataw0lf | sup Dave |
| 21:59.41 | dataw0lf | y'all will be amused to note I've started attending church. |
| 22:00.04 | bigdog_ut | lol about time |
| 22:00.17 | bigdog_ut | brasto, get pics man |
| 22:00.54 | mindjuju | dataw0lf, is it the girl draggin' ya or you going of your own volition? |
| 22:00.57 | brasto | i wasn't fast enough to get the camera |
| 22:01.00 | timinator | good for you dataw0lf |
| 22:01.18 | dataw0lf | she was the inspiration, but it's of my own volition. |
| 22:01.31 | dataw0lf | I don't mind it |
| 22:01.38 | dataw0lf | I haven't burst into flames yet |
| 22:01.38 | Utah_Dave | how's it going, dataw0lf? been quite a while |
| 22:01.43 | dataw0lf | ;-) |
| 22:02.03 | synic | heh, I've been toying with going myself. |
| 22:02.10 | dataw0lf | pretty good. you? |
| 22:02.21 | mindjuju | alls i can say is nobody can judge but God, so doubt you'd be bursting into flames |
| 22:02.25 | dataw0lf | syniiiiiiiic |
| 22:02.31 | synic | dataw0lf: hey man :) |
| 22:03.04 | Utah_Dave | been doing pretty well! |
| 22:03.15 | synic | I think I might even go all out and read some bom |
| 22:03.31 | dataw0lf | Utah_Dave: awesome. Still toying with Python? |
| 22:03.37 | *** mode/#UPHPU [+v synic] by ChanServ |
| 22:03.41 | dataw0lf | synic: that's cool |
| 22:04.11 | Utah_Dave | yeah, I am. Still doing a lot of PHP, but I'm working on some python gui stuff. |
| 22:04.23 | mindjuju | brb |
| 22:04.35 | Utah_Dave | I keep peeking at Turbogears and Django, but they haven't been able to pull me away from my first love, PHP :) |
| 22:04.42 | dataw0lf | there's some PHP jobs at my company if anyone wants to move to Reno :) |
| 22:04.52 | dataw0lf | Utah_Dave: wx? |
| 22:04.56 | Utah_Dave | yeah |
| 22:05.05 | Utah_Dave | how's the work environment there? |
| 22:05.11 | dataw0lf | sweet stuff |
| 22:05.13 | brasto | what's the start pay for a php developer in Reno? |
| 22:05.42 | dataw0lf | Utah_Dave: Nice, you'd have your own office, good work hours, good people |
| 22:06.06 | dataw0lf | brasto: this is basically an entry level PHP job, 1-2 years experience at most, I think it's 50-55k start |
| 22:06.33 | Utah_Dave | dataw0lf: how's the cost of living of Reno compare to SLC? |
| 22:06.40 | dataw0lf | not too shabby, it's real easy stuff for that position. |
| 22:06.42 | brasto | that may be be enough for me - what's the cost of living in Reno like? |
| 22:06.51 | dataw0lf | Utah_Dave: about the same. |
| 22:07.03 | dataw0lf | maybe even a little cheaper |
| 22:07.05 | brasto | lol, just noticed Utah_Dave asked the same thing |
| 22:07.13 | dataw0lf | not nearly as spread out either. |
| 22:07.32 | timinator | I've heard Reno is not a nice town |
| 22:07.33 | bigdog_ut | when they pay 51k then me and drip might need to go out there |
| 22:07.35 | Utah_Dave | cool. I lived near reno when I was a kid. Sparks |
| 22:07.38 | _psychic_ | sparks is nice, too |
| 22:07.46 | dataw0lf | I'm getting an apartment about a mile from our offices probably, it's only 750 for a real nice neighborhood and floor plan. |
| 22:07.59 | timinator | cool |
| 22:08.12 | dataw0lf | bigdog_ut: you could get 90k+ real easy. |
| 22:08.14 | brasto | datow0lf means there are no rocky mountains in Reno, spreading civilization one way? |
| 22:08.42 | bigdog_ut | dataw0lf, yeah probably |
| 22:08.47 | dataw0lf | brasto: oh, they got the Sierras right here but it's not a valley, qnd most of the tech jobs are in Reno or Sparks |
| 22:08.52 | bigdog_ut | but i hate php |
| 22:08.55 | bigdog_ut | :) |
| 22:08.57 | bigdog_ut | right mindjuju |
| 22:09.03 | dataw0lf | bigdog_ut: I know there are some mid-level PHP jobs around here hiring right now for 85k |
| 22:09.12 | bigdog_ut | wow that is really good |
| 22:09.15 | _psychic_ | ! |
| 22:09.17 | dataw0lf | jea |
| 22:09.33 | dataw0lf | it's through a recruitment company, though, so... |
| 22:10.29 | Utah_Dave | dataw0lf: isn't the mustang ranch not too far from there? ;) |
| 22:10.44 | dataw0lf | I'm making 76k but I got alot of benefits and a signon bonus, plus that's for a 9 month probationary period |
| 22:10.59 | dataw0lf | Utah_Dave: it's 9.3 miles away from me |
| 22:11.03 | dataw0lf | ;-) |
| 22:12.09 | bigdog_ut | that aint bad dataw0lf |
| 22:12.15 | synic | dataw0lf: exaile is all kinds of hot now (IMHO) - http://www.exaile.org/screenshots/exaile.jpg |
| 22:12.19 | bigdog_ut | drip makes more than all us |
| 22:12.30 | dataw0lf | and Python dev is really booming, we'll probably be hiring some midlevel python devs in a year or so. |
| 22:12.43 | dataw0lf | bigdog_ut: lucky punk |
| 22:12.44 | dataw0lf | ;-) |
| 22:12.54 | dataw0lf | synic: nice, I'll have to download it. |
| 22:12.58 | dataw0lf | work on OS X? |
| 22:13.02 | synic | get the svn. |
| 22:13.03 | dataw0lf | yes, I'm on a mac right now. |
| 22:13.04 | bigdog_ut | he works all the time though |
| 22:13.04 | synic | no, it doesn't |
| 22:13.26 | dataw0lf | darn |
| 22:13.33 | dataw0lf | I'll download it later then |
| 22:14.17 | bigdog_ut | dataw0lf, not running ubunut? |
| 22:14.22 | Utah_Dave | dataw0lf: what's your company's website? |
| 22:14.28 | synic | I bailed on wxPython and converted it to gtk |
| 22:14.44 | dataw0lf | synic: traitor! |
| 22:14.45 | bigdog_ut | pygtk rocks |
| 22:14.48 | dataw0lf | boooo |
| 22:15.05 | dataw0lf | Utah_Dave: quinstreet.com |
| 22:16.34 | brasto | not over, but slowed down, that is |
| 22:16.41 | dataw0lf | hit me up, I'll test it. |
| 22:17.23 | bigdog_ut | i think i want to be a business development associate |
| 22:17.43 | dataw0lf | I'm telling you guys, I like SLC, but you gotta get out of there unless the tech pay starts going up, shoot. |
| 22:18.03 | brasto | http://bstout.securesites.net/?catID=117&artID=1&page=1 |
| 22:18.11 | _psychic_ | php devs seem to be in demand, though... |
| 22:18.39 | dataw0lf | oh, they're really big in SF right now. |
| 22:18.40 | brasto | my original article is on mscis.org, the above one is only part of it, broken into pages to test the page-layout view |
| 22:19.14 | brasto | original article: http://mscis.org/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=71 |
| 22:19.43 | dataw0lf | bring the main div over the left a tiny bit |
| 22:19.52 | bigdog_ut | mindjuju, thanks for the heads up |
| 22:20.11 | mindjuju | fo sho dude, didn't want you to go and worry |
| 22:20.14 | dataw0lf | I like the new UPHPU site, btw. |
| 22:20.26 | dataw0lf | wade design that? |
| 22:20.33 | _psychic_ | Maybe we can annex Nevada and call it unphpu... wait... |
| 22:20.43 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 22:20.46 | dataw0lf | nuphpu |
| 22:20.51 | bigdog_ut | i think e did |
| 22:21.13 | dataw0lf | what's that, your scottish accent coming out, bigdog? |
| 22:21.18 | brasto | or NePUG |
| 22:21.25 | brasto | or N'PUG |
| 22:21.31 | drip | bigdog_ut: so everyone is making under $35k, eh? |
| 22:21.39 | drip | if I'm making more than everyone else |
| 22:22.18 | mindjuju | ***awkward silence*** |
| 22:22.53 | mindjuju | i'm making a few pesos more |
| 22:23.03 | drip | lol |
| 22:23.15 | timinator_meetin | last "***awkward silence***" I had to call a BYU Official out, let's not have that again |
| 22:24.13 | mindjuju | anyhow, when timinator's website goes live, he'll likely be making more than anybody, right? |
| 22:24.19 | drip | seems like that's about what I make after the cost of commuting. sheesh |
| 22:24.28 | timinator | I hope so |
| 22:24.53 | mindjuju | plus seems like i heard that timinator was going to buy lunch for everybody and stuff |
| 22:24.56 | dataw0lf | how much is gas in SLC nowadays? |
| 22:25.11 | timinator | hopefully I'll be tipping w/ hundred dollar bills |
| 22:25.22 | timinator | not yet mindjuju |
| 22:25.26 | drip | cheap stuff $2.22 up in Davis county.. more like $2.35 in SLC |
| 22:25.27 | dataw0lf | I just bought a 2001 Passat, decent mileage |
| 22:25.51 | mindjuju | yup, was looking at the Passat |
| 22:26.14 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: I might drive up instead of flying if you wanna give 'er a test drive. |
| 22:26.48 | mindjuju | dude, passat is suppose to be a real smooth ride, looks nice, and not bad price |
| 22:26.54 | brasto | dataw0lf - how far is Reno from SLC in freeway miles? |
| 22:27.14 | dataw0lf | brasto: unsure |
| 22:27.17 | _psychic_ | you get to drive across the salt flats |
| 22:27.22 | _psychic_ | that's kinda spooky sometimes |
| 22:27.23 | brasto | i saw pix of a monster miata the other day |
| 22:27.38 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: I love my passat |
| 22:27.59 | dataw0lf | I'm getting like 32 mpg on the highway. |
| 22:28.47 | wps | should I change the job posting requirement "What pay range do you feel appropriately compensates for the skills, experience, and services you are looking for?" to "Salary?" |
| 22:29.14 | wps | or just remove "range"? |
| 22:29.25 | _psychic_ | yeah |
| 22:29.29 | _psychic_ | remove range |
| 22:29.38 | dataw0lf | agreed |
| 22:29.47 | _psychic_ | today: 40-80k |
| 22:29.57 | _psychic_ | that was pretty awesome |
| 22:30.10 | dataw0lf | that's one heck of a range |
| 22:30.20 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: you like python because its more oop? what framework (if any) do you use? |
| 22:30.26 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: that's what I thought |
| 22:30.43 | dataw0lf | oh jeez, you just opened up a can of worms by asking me about Python |
| 22:31.39 | dataw0lf | The Reason I Like Python |
| 22:31.47 | dataw0lf | An Essay by Joshua 'dataw0lf' Simpson |
| 22:31.59 | dataw0lf | *ahem* |
| 22:32.17 | dataw0lf | The number one reason why I like (love) Python is because it's a pragmatic language. |
| 22:32.41 | dataw0lf | It has no real alliance or diehard loyalty to any particular programming paradigm. |
| 22:32.55 | dataw0lf | As far as web programming frameworks go, I've been using a highly modified version of Django. |
| 22:33.11 | macnewbold | I think the explanation of that makes sense though - I wouldn't be surprised if we found ourselves hiring for a position that could take an entry level, mid level, or well experienced person, and it would have a range about like that |
| 22:33.34 | dataw0lf | However, the Python web frameworks available are still too restrictive, thus kinda killing Python's whole pragmatic approach. |
| 22:33.35 | wps | any recommendations on how to work it macnewbold ? |
| 22:33.58 | dataw0lf | macnewbold: good point. |
| 22:34.01 | wps | s/work/word/ |
| 22:34.20 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: are there any particulars you wanted to know about? |
| 22:35.01 | macnewbold | wps: I like the current wording pretty well, even with range in it. |
| 22:35.02 | macnewbold | hm |
| 22:35.14 | macnewbold | It's good to keep a small range, but at the same time, |
| 22:35.17 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: just curious. I'm looking to broaden my options a little, and it seems like python is used on the web and the desktop some, which I like. |
| 22:35.24 | macnewbold | if they're really willing to hire someone good for $80K, |
| 22:35.28 | macnewbold | why not let them list that |
| 22:35.37 | _psychic_ | because I doubt that they really are |
| 22:36.01 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: Yea, that's definitely an attraction. Python can be used very well in system administration scripts, to CGI and other web application code, to major user end desktop applications, and so on. |
| 22:36.03 | macnewbold | then how do we filter the "really are" from the "say they are"? |
| 22:36.04 | timinator | ya, it's unlikely.... rather they're trying to lure w/ 80k and pay 40k |
| 22:36.11 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: that, and php devs are generally viewed as hacks, and get less pay. |
| 22:36.16 | Utah_Dave | Yeah, they'll pay $80K if you have programmed in every language invented by man back through 1910 |
| 22:36.24 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: also, Python as a viable language for potential tech employees is booming. |
| 22:36.50 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: to a degree, although that perspective is lessening somewhat. |
| 22:36.52 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: I'm seeing that. Did you know php before you started in Python? |
| 22:37.00 | dataw0lf | especially as major organizations are making the move from perl to php |
| 22:37.05 | _psychic_ | true |
| 22:37.13 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: Nope, I've known Python far longer than PHP. |
| 22:37.14 | _psychic_ | php is becoming the workhorse of the web that perl was |
| 22:37.22 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: indeed. |
| 22:37.46 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: just wondering what the learning curve is. I know Java well enough, and PHP very well. |
| 22:38.04 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: the learning curve is ridiculously easy. |
| 22:38.30 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: something more OO would be nice on occasion, but Java sucks the life out of me. Its really verbose and nit-picky. |
| 22:38.47 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: Ruby looked cool, but it the syntax seems to... flexible. |
| 22:39.04 | mindjuju | that's what i've read about python is that it is suppose to be human readable |
| 22:39.20 | mindjuju | so i'm guessing it should be as easy to write? |
| 22:39.43 | _psychic_ | I just get sick of Java train wrecks |
| 22:41.01 | macnewbold | wps: maybe this "What pay range do you feel appropriately compensates for the skills, experience, and services you are looking for?" could add something about "would you be willing to pay" |
| 22:41.03 | dataw0lf | sorry, phone call, gotta fly to San Fran Wednesday |
| 22:41.59 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: the thing about the "learning curve" in Python, and this surprises and delights most new users as they become comfortable with it, is that you're primarily learning general programming paradigms, strategies, etc |
| 22:42.09 | dataw0lf | the Python syntax is amazingly transparent in that respect |
| 22:42.19 | _psychic_ | as far as design patterns, or what? |
| 22:42.32 | dataw0lf | so, the time that you'd ordinarily be spending on learning small language quirks in a language such as Perl, or Java |
| 22:42.44 | dataw0lf | you're spending time learning just ... well, how to program |
| 22:42.57 | dataw0lf | _psychic_: yes, design patterns certainly fall into that category. |
| 22:43.53 | dataw0lf | I like to say that someone who's spent 3 years learning Perl will have the same general programming abilities and strategic outlook as someone who's been programming in Python for, say, 1 year. |
| 22:45.27 | dataw0lf | of course, Perl is the Heavyweight King of Spending Time Learning Language Quirks (tm) |
| 22:45.46 | macnewbold | haha |
| 22:45.47 | _psychic_ | timtowtdi |
| 22:45.58 | dataw0lf | I can feel the heat coming from #utah next door |
| 22:46.58 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: what python book did you pick up? |
| 22:47.35 | dataw0lf | I've trashed it before, but Learning Python, after careful review, is pretty slick. |
| 22:48.13 | mindjuju | OReilly's |
| 22:48.31 | dataw0lf | Learning or Programming? |
| 22:48.45 | mindjuju | left it at home actually, but i think it was learning |
| 22:48.55 | mindjuju | cause i wanted to start from ground up |
| 22:49.07 | dataw0lf | cool, all of O'Reilly's Python texts are the best out there, which shouldn't be a surprise. |
| 22:49.15 | mindjuju | remember it had a mouse on it |
| 22:49.35 | dataw0lf | yea, that's Learning. |
| 22:49.38 | dataw0lf | and I think it's a rat. |
| 22:49.52 | fungus | Dive into Python is my favorite book for beginners. |
| 22:50.03 | dataw0lf | sup fungus |
| 22:50.10 | dataw0lf | DiP is good for experienced programmers |
| 22:50.23 | dataw0lf | but it really lives up to it's name |
| 22:50.30 | fungus | Hey long time no see. |
| 22:50.44 | dataw0lf | I think if you're an experienced programmer, read DiP to psyched up and then go for Programming Python or Learning Python |
| 22:50.52 | _psychic_ | DiP? |
| 22:50.55 | dataw0lf | s/to/to get |
| 22:51.00 | dataw0lf | fungus: still working at Aros? |
| 22:51.03 | fungus | http://diveintopython.org |
| 22:51.05 | dataw0lf | Dive into Pytohn |
| 22:51.08 | _psychic_ | rgr |
| 22:51.09 | fungus | dataw0lf: unfortunately |
| 22:51.10 | dataw0lf | s/Pytohn/Python |
| 22:51.28 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 22:51.43 | dataw0lf | good job opportunities here in Reno. |
| 22:51.49 | _psychic_ | sweet. free book. |
| 22:52.05 | dataw0lf | www.byteofpython.info <- free too |
| 22:52.28 | fungus | Hmm, Reno... maybe, but I like Utah too much. (geography not culture) |
| 22:52.44 | dataw0lf | fungus: same geography here, basically. |
| 22:52.49 | dataw0lf | Sierra Nevadas right next door. |
| 22:53.05 | _psychic_ | UNR campus was nice |
| 22:53.09 | *** join/#uphpu watermouse (n=byronw@66.236.72.126.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 22:53.13 | dataw0lf | yea, it's pretty cool. |
| 22:53.25 | fungus | next door as in less than 15min drive? |
| 22:53.32 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: if you get addicted to Python, make sure to pick up the python essential reference, too |
| 22:53.36 | dataw0lf | fungus: yes indeed. |
| 22:53.40 | dataw0lf | about a 5 minute drive |
| 22:53.48 | fungus | Very nice. |
| 22:53.48 | dataw0lf | I live right now at 7600 feet |
| 22:54.59 | dataw0lf | I'm about 15 minutes from Tahoe and about 15 minutes from Reno, perfect placement. |
| 22:55.12 | dataw0lf | but I want an apartment at lower altitude |
| 22:56.13 | dataw0lf | it's like a tiny, clean Las Vegas right next to the mountains. |
| 22:57.02 | _psychic_ | it didn't use to be that way |
| 22:57.07 | _psychic_ | I grew up in southern nevada |
| 22:57.21 | _psychic_ | once I read a new story about how the river... caught on fire up in reno |
| 22:57.54 | dataw0lf | the Truckee? |
| 22:58.06 | dataw0lf | yea, there's been a major cleaning up of it. |
| 22:58.15 | _psychic_ | yep |
| 22:58.19 | _psychic_ | so much crap in it |
| 22:58.21 | _psychic_ | and it caught on fire |
| 22:58.41 | _psychic_ | the crazy thing was that it was taking down bridges and stuff as the fire meandered down town |
| 22:58.47 | _psychic_ | don't know how long ago that was though |
| 23:00.11 | dataw0lf | the hippie quotient is pretty high, I think the about ran the casinos outta town until they got funding for major clean up operations in the 90s |
| 23:00.15 | dataw0lf | don't quote me on that |
| 23:00.20 | dataw0lf | but it sounds bout right |
| 23:00.45 | dataw0lf | s/the/they |
| 23:00.53 | dataw0lf | jiminy christmas, these mac keyboards |
| 23:01.55 | _psychic_ | :) |
| 23:02.37 | timinator | mac keyboards rock |
| 23:02.42 | timinator | sexy smooth |
| 23:02.59 | dataw0lf | not this one |
| 23:03.36 | timinator | the new white ones are very nice |
| 23:03.53 | dataw0lf | alright, I gotta go call the offices in SF and get my plane ticket information ironed out, and then I'm going to put more money on the Bears at Circus Circus |
| 23:04.12 | dataw0lf | my new gmail email is std3rr@gmail.com, in case anyone wants to send me love letters |
| 23:04.16 | timinator | so are you leaving us dataw0lf? |
| 23:04.22 | dataw0lf | I'll be on later |
| 23:04.25 | bigdog_ut | whatz up |
| 23:04.26 | dataw0lf | cya guys |
| 23:04.49 | _psychic_ | pretty cool to hear from him again |
| 23:23.41 | *** join/#uphpu jnbek (n=jnbek@c-24-10-178-17.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:49.55 | *** join/#uphpu jnbek (n=jnbek@c-24-10-178-17.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:54.56 | *** part/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net) |
