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| 00:43.58 | mindjuju | anybody around? |
| 00:58.16 | mindjuju | bummer |
| 01:04.40 | tierra | I could be |
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| 01:46.10 | synic | I'm possibly about |
| 01:47.55 | burnin | strange choice of names for their product |
| 01:50.35 | synic | wow, people still use cold fusion? |
| 01:50.59 | burnin | guess so |
| 01:51.42 | burnin | when I mentioned that I could assist with the IT projects if they were PHP I was given a stern "corporate policy dicatates we use cold fusion". |
| 01:52.04 | burnin | funny though, some of the corporate apps from the corporate webserver are PHP, not cold fusion. |
| 01:52.09 | burnin | makes one wonder. |
| 01:52.13 | burnin | oh well |
| 01:52.26 | beandog | cold fusion? |
| 01:52.30 | beandog | Ive always wondered if thats any good. |
| 01:52.39 | beandog | Probably a step above ASP, Im sure. |
| 02:05.52 | mindjuju | burnin, i write coldfusion |
| 02:05.59 | mindjuju | 6.1 and 7 |
| 02:06.16 | burnin | mindjuju: so what is it like, compared to PHP? |
| 02:06.26 | beandog | are they even still developing it? |
| 02:06.34 | burnin | think so |
| 02:06.45 | mindjuju | yup, since macromedia merged with adobe |
| 02:06.58 | mindjuju | adobe is really moving money to the dev of cf 8 |
| 02:06.59 | burnin | about a year ago I checked to see if I could download it for linux, you could buy it but not download it for free. |
| 02:07.20 | beandog | I dont know why someone would buy that when theres so many free languages to code in. |
| 02:07.23 | mindjuju | there is a 30 day enterprise demo that converts to a dev license |
| 02:07.45 | mindjuju | it plugs into a linux using the Jrun server |
| 02:08.06 | mindjuju | it's very easy to use, like php |
| 02:08.26 | mindjuju | some of the functions don't quiet work the way you'd want |
| 02:08.39 | mindjuju | and your not able to really get underneath and change it, so that's a bummer |
| 02:09.16 | mindjuju | like today, i was trying to use the cfcache function which tells the app server to cache the code on mostly stagnant pages |
| 02:09.25 | burnin | is it object oriented, classes and what not? |
| 02:09.36 | mindjuju | the prob with cfcache is that it puts a comment as the first line in the page that it caches that it was cached |
| 02:09.48 | beandog | oh, boy. |
| 02:09.59 | mindjuju | that pisses off IE cause if the doctype isn't the first line, it instantly goes into quirks mode |
| 02:10.05 | mindjuju | which means bad css implementation |
| 02:10.07 | burnin | wa? it modifies your pages? |
| 02:10.17 | beandog | sounds like our mail server. |
| 02:10.48 | mindjuju | cfcache? it doesn't really modify, it renders the page, then caches it server side so that if it is a page that doesn't change much it can deliver faster |
| 02:11.01 | mindjuju | but it does add that one line that it was cached as the first line of the page |
| 02:11.20 | mindjuju | which is enough to piss off IE, everybody else is ok with it, FF, NS, Opera, etc |
| 02:12.01 | burnin | adding anything to a cached paged seems like a bad idea. they should come up with some other means of identifying a page as cached. |
| 02:12.18 | beandog | that is lame. |
| 02:12.24 | mindjuju | yup, tons of people have been complaining about it so i'm hoping it gets fixed |
| 02:12.48 | mindjuju | i used to really HATE CF |
| 02:13.07 | mindjuju | but, you get used to the rules |
| 02:13.22 | mindjuju | then when used to them, you can start to sling some pretty cool code really quick |
| 02:13.27 | mindjuju | make some cool aps fast |
| 02:14.05 | beandog | mindjuju: how many languages are you proficient in anyway |
| 02:15.08 | mindjuju | Serverside - PHP, CF, Classic ASP |
| 02:15.21 | mindjuju | Clientside - JS (fairly decently) |
| 02:15.43 | mindjuju | i was slinging openlaszlo around, it's not too bad, but i don't know enough to really do more than basic |
| 02:16.21 | beandog | JavaScript .. meh. |
| 02:16.52 | mindjuju | yeah, ASP was pretty lame |
| 02:16.57 | beandog | man its horrid. |
| 02:17.07 | beandog | I remember when I frst started my job I had to relearn it |
| 02:17.14 | beandog | It took me forever to figure out how to loop through a recordset. |
| 02:17.33 | beandog | Or even get a count. |
| 02:17.36 | beandog | Which I dont think is possible |
| 02:17.38 | beandog | like numrows() |
| 02:17.44 | beandog | gah, asp is the suck. |
| 02:18.19 | beandog | Found a few bugs in that language, too. |
| 02:18.22 | beandog | nasty stuff. |
| 02:22.35 | mindjuju | i'm thinking about learning C#... i hate the idea, but it would be handy |
| 02:23.00 | beandog | yanno |
| 02:23.05 | beandog | I havent heard anything negative about it yet. |
| 02:23.21 | beandog | Id still never use it. :) |
| 02:23.51 | mindjuju | well, the problem is that they go around advertising that you can get way cool stuff done with "70% less coding" |
| 02:24.00 | mindjuju | that just seems wrong to me |
| 02:24.20 | beandog | thats just lame. |
| 02:24.33 | beandog | but, theyre selling to the PHBs |
| 02:24.44 | beandog | Instead of the PHBs actually trusting in competent coders. |
| 02:25.05 | mindjuju | yup, see that is exactly where we are |
| 02:25.39 | beandog | I hate that crap. |
| 02:25.44 | mindjuju | these C# writers were actually field promoted tech support people who don't understand theory but because c# allows you to sling code around easier, they made a cool app and got upgraded |
| 02:26.12 | mindjuju | now we are in a crazy bad situation |
| 02:26.38 | mindjuju | well, not earth shattering serious but I have to go in and translate for the owner |
| 02:26.48 | mindjuju | and explain how what they say isn't always true |
| 02:26.52 | beandog | translate? |
| 02:26.53 | beandog | Oh |
| 02:26.55 | beandog | gotcha |
| 02:26.59 | beandog | you mean act as a BS filter |
| 02:27.30 | mindjuju | exactly |
| 02:28.16 | beandog | that you even need to do that is a little red flag, id say. |
| 02:28.53 | mindjuju | yeah, the owner knows now it was a bad call, funny, seems like i went on record SEVERAL times before the promotion telling him not to do it |
| 02:29.33 | beandog | oh did he already buy into something? |
| 02:30.15 | mindjuju | oh, they are writing an app for the company that is a significant revenue stream. it's way overdue and serious code probs |
| 02:30.48 | mindjuju | the owner has let go my leash so every time they start spewing crap, i get to call them on it |
| 02:32.55 | beandog | heh |
| 02:33.00 | beandog | told you so. ;) |
| 02:33.44 | mindjuju | hey, beandog, do you write CSS? |
| 02:33.50 | beandog | oh, man, not in the least. |
| 02:33.54 | beandog | I suck at web design. |
| 02:33.59 | mindjuju | bummer |
| 02:34.01 | beandog | I prefer really complex backend coding. |
| 02:34.38 | beandog | need a good challenge. :) |
| 02:34.48 | beandog | where I work now its such a disaster zone. Ive learned quite a bit. |
| 02:35.05 | beandog | you wouldnt believe our db even if I showed you in person. |
| 02:35.20 | mindjuju | tell me about it. when I got here, our web server was litterally crashing 3x a day |
| 02:35.30 | beandog | oy. |
| 02:35.33 | beandog | what server? |
| 02:35.39 | mindjuju | when i finally got access to the web server from the old guy i ousted out of the company, i found out why |
| 02:35.40 | beandog | apache? iis? |
| 02:35.44 | mindjuju | IIS 6 |
| 02:35.53 | beandog | Hmm, Ive only used 5. Horribly slow. |
| 02:35.55 | mindjuju | he had literally, 100 access dbs running the whole show |
| 02:36.01 | beandog | LOL |
| 02:36.09 | beandog | niiice. |
| 02:36.11 | mindjuju | yeah, a HUGE nightmare |
| 02:36.19 | mindjuju | what you got over there? similar? |
| 02:36.29 | beandog | MS SQL Serve.r |
| 02:36.35 | beandog | Which isnt the worst of it. |
| 02:36.43 | beandog | no naming scheme standard. |
| 02:36.45 | beandog | No normalization. |
| 02:36.58 | beandog | *really* screwed up indexes. |
| 02:37.09 | beandog | Heck, the data was spread across 8 databases and doing inner joins everywhere. |
| 02:37.23 | mindjuju | that is bad |
| 02:37.31 | beandog | yah |
| 02:37.55 | beandog | weve gotten a lot of it cleaned up, but I estimate it'd still take a year to get to the point where Im even close to being content. |
| 02:38.14 | mindjuju | are you a dba? |
| 02:38.24 | beandog | I guess you could say that. |
| 02:39.06 | beandog | Its me and one other IT guy where we work |
| 02:39.08 | beandog | we run the show. |
| 02:39.11 | beandog | So Im pretty much everything. |
| 02:39.55 | beandog | systems admin isnt so bad, once I switched everything over to linux. |
| 02:40.04 | mindjuju | what servers do you work on besides MS SQL? |
| 02:40.20 | beandog | like database or in general? |
| 02:40.25 | mindjuju | sorry, database |
| 02:40.33 | beandog | at work? just postgres. |
| 02:40.45 | beandog | me, personally, postgres, mysql, sqlite |
| 02:42.06 | beandog | what about you, what are you guys using |
| 02:42.10 | beandog | besides Access :) |
| 02:43.37 | mindjuju | i've moved us off Access to MS SQL 2k now shifting to 2k5 |
| 02:44.32 | beandog | 2k5 any better? |
| 02:45.21 | mindjuju | yeah, better than 2k |
| 02:45.37 | mindjuju | i get several benefits by combining several things |
| 02:45.50 | mindjuju | like IIS 6, win 2k3, sql 2k5 |
| 02:45.58 | mindjuju | can go pretty high performance |
| 02:46.23 | mindjuju | if I slinging in .net programming, it's suppose to be pretty robust. |
| 02:46.38 | beandog | weve got a 2k3 server at work |
| 02:46.49 | beandog | im deathly afraid to touch it. |
| 02:47.09 | mindjuju | what's it running? |
| 02:47.17 | beandog | the database |
| 02:47.19 | beandog | thats it |
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| 02:48.37 | mindjuju | do ya'll have an MSDN licesne? |
| 02:49.30 | beandog | we did |
| 02:49.40 | beandog | I told them not to renew it when I came on, since were porting everything. |
| 02:49.53 | beandog | we > me |
| 02:50.00 | mindjuju | was going to say, you could get an install of win2k3 and play with it |
| 02:50.11 | mindjuju | i'd swing off 2k3 if i could |
| 02:50.29 | mindjuju | i spend a good chunk of wednesday researching patches, then patching my servers |
| 02:50.43 | mindjuju | and even then, somtimes i get hit with a bad patch |
| 02:50.48 | beandog | yah everything else runs on 2k, I like that one okay. |
| 02:51.05 | beandog | Im trying to find the easiest way, if there is one, to migrate to postgres. |
| 02:51.27 | mindjuju | you ought to talk to bigdog_ut , he lives on postgres |
| 02:52.03 | beandog | well its just a matter of patience. |
| 02:52.14 | beandog | I'm fairly okay with postgres, it was the first DB I ever cut my teeth on. |
| 02:52.41 | mindjuju | how long you been doing dba? |
| 02:52.44 | beandog | the schema is so NASTY as is, its just a question of do we want to convert it now or clean it up and convert it or a mix of both. |
| 02:52.47 | beandog | 5 years, I guess. |
| 02:53.05 | beandog | postgres, mysql, mssql |
| 02:53.31 | mindjuju | me, when I converted from Access to MS SQL, i converted just straight accross, no clean, no convert. too complicated / risky |
| 02:53.37 | mindjuju | then when in MS SQL, cleaned |
| 02:53.41 | mindjuju | now normalizing |
| 02:53.47 | beandog | Well the real problem is rewriting queries. |
| 02:53.56 | mindjuju | now that is another matter |
| 02:53.58 | beandog | is going to be in, I mean. |
| 02:54.06 | beandog | ANSI SQL again (thank goodness) |
| 02:54.23 | beandog | just rewriting the functions |
| 02:54.28 | beandog | using booleans |
| 02:54.41 | beandog | recreating the views, sp's and udfs, ugh. |
| 02:54.46 | beandog | that's not gonna be fun. |
| 02:54.58 | beandog | oh well, it'll be worth it. |
| 02:55.13 | mindjuju | i can imagine |
| 02:55.31 | beandog | right now were going through and 'standardizing" as many queries as we can |
| 02:55.52 | beandog | eventually though were just gonna have to pull the plug, move over, and fix everything else. |
| 02:56.53 | beandog | Im actually excited, though |
| 02:57.14 | beandog | I really hate sql server. |
| 02:57.18 | beandog | Im never taking a job again with it. |
| 02:57.49 | beandog | Im glad I learned it, but man its caused so many headaches. |
| 02:57.58 | mindjuju | yup, but it sounds like good resume pieces |
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| 02:58.08 | mindjuju | make $$$ helping others make the conversion |
| 02:58.21 | beandog | yah, I was thinking about that too. |
| 02:58.31 | beandog | It's actually not THAT hard to convert the raw data. |
| 02:58.39 | beandog | In fact I started writing a script to do it for me. |
| 02:59.28 | beandog | and php has so many very nice postgres functions, its great. |
| 02:59.42 | beandog | I really cant wait to use pgsql |
| 03:02.09 | beandog | mindjuju: where do you work at? |
| 03:05.21 | mindjuju | bill good marketing -- before you go look at the site, i'm still in the process of changing it |
| 03:05.45 | mindjuju | i'm doing that same thing you are, except that i'm doing a full website rebuild along with rebuild sprocs, etc |
| 03:05.53 | mindjuju | i'm actually hoping to release in 2 weeks |
| 03:06.25 | beandog | sprocs? |
| 03:06.37 | mindjuju | stored procedures, sp |
| 03:06.43 | beandog | ok |
| 03:06.47 | beandog | I kinda figured.. |
| 03:07.08 | beandog | meh, site looks okay to me. |
| 03:07.42 | mindjuju | thx, but it's slow and boggy |
| 03:07.59 | beandog | oh, wait |
| 03:08.02 | beandog | I see what youre saying now. |
| 03:08.02 | beandog | Yah |
| 03:08.10 | beandog | it could use a bit of uh |
| 03:08.23 | beandog | consistency |
| 03:12.43 | mindjuju | yeah, here is what we used to look like before I got here |
| 03:12.43 | mindjuju | http://web.archive.org/web/20050313033324/http://www.billgood.com/ |
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| 03:21.13 | beandog | oy. |
| 03:21.15 | beandog | not much better. |
| 03:21.22 | beandog | The Bill Good Marketing |
| 03:21.23 | beandog | System is a computer-based, client marketing, prospecting, and office management system. |
| 03:21.25 | beandog | eh? |
| 03:21.26 | beandog | :) |
| 03:21.45 | mindjuju | yeah, i don't get to write the content |
| 03:21.51 | mindjuju | just layout |
| 03:22.03 | beandog | isnt that the great irony |
| 03:22.08 | mindjuju | where you at? |
| 03:22.16 | beandog | management who know nothing about how to make a great website design the things. |
| 03:22.36 | beandog | called Knightsbridge |
| 03:22.39 | beandog | we dont even have a website. |
| 03:22.49 | beandog | Just a client login page. |
| 03:22.49 | beandog | -_- |
| 03:23.08 | beandog | http://knightsbrg.com/ |
| 03:23.37 | beandog | man that is ugly. |
| 03:24.50 | mindjuju | nah, not too bad |
| 03:24.54 | mindjuju | justa log in form |
| 03:26.57 | beandog | man |
| 03:27.05 | beandog | for some reason a ton of stuff in craigslist is from west jordan. |
| 03:27.41 | beandog | mindjuju: were almost done porting from ASP, thats the good news. |
| 03:27.52 | beandog | once thats done we can start putting in some site-wide theme design |
| 03:27.53 | beandog | I hope. |
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| 04:00.01 | mindjuju | oh, the irony |
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| 04:36.19 | mindjuju | las muchachas? |
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| 04:52.21 | el_gaucho | mis senoritas |
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| 07:09.27 | mindjuju | anybody around |
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| 13:23.02 | el_gaucho | im here |
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| 14:25.21 | timinator | mornin' all |
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| 15:00.36 | Utah_Dave | morning |
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| 15:31.00 | herlo | Utah_Dave: I finally got SVN working on my site |
| 15:31.48 | Utah_Dave | sweet. Did you set up Webdav and everything? |
| 15:31.57 | herlo | yep |
| 15:32.34 | herlo | Utah_Dave: check your pms |
| 15:33.01 | Utah_Dave | gotcha |
| 15:33.46 | herlo | you should be able to view it from the web....that's what makes web_dav_svn so cool |
| 15:39.36 | jsmith | herlo: Woo hoo! Anything good in your SVN repos? |
| 15:44.13 | herlo | jsmith: not really yeat |
| 15:44.15 | herlo | yet |
| 15:44.54 | herlo | jsmith: it's mostly for my new Lard Wars site |
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| 16:31.30 | drip | Lard Wars? |
| 16:31.50 | drip | as in.. the hurling of pig fat? |
| 16:32.30 | jsmith | drip: Pretty close. |
| 16:34.16 | fungus | because it forces them to separate business logic from presentation. It's for people who can't control themselves. |
| 16:34.47 | bigdog_ut | my argument is that you still have logic in presentation |
| 16:34.50 | _psychic_ | you don't need smarty for MVC |
| 16:35.04 | _psychic_ | presentational logic is okay in presentation |
| 16:35.07 | bigdog_ut | smarty is not mvc though |
| 16:35.08 | _psychic_ | business logic is not |
| 16:35.31 | bigdog_ut | if they do it right |
| 16:35.49 | fungus | Right, but if you use smarty, you are forced to separate business from presentation. W/O smarty you have to be smart yourself. :) |
| 16:36.18 | _psychic_ | or stupid |
| 16:36.20 | fungus | Smarty is for stupid retards who don't "get it". |
| 16:36.52 | _psychic_ | Using a tool to maintain separation isn't bad. I just don't see a need for the extra layer above what PHP is already doing. |
| 16:37.07 | timinator | here here |
| 16:37.09 | fungus | I agree |
| 16:38.23 | bigdog_ut | i like what wps and I did on a project a while ago...just send objects to the front with the data |
| 16:39.12 | _psychic_ | ? |
| 16:39.35 | fungus | that works well, but I have also used assoc arrays as well. |
| 16:39.42 | bigdog_ut | yep that too |
| 16:40.10 | fungus | extract comes in handy in those cases. |
| 16:40.20 | fungus | but objects often make sense too. |
| 16:40.48 | _psychic_ | (specially for MVC type stuff) |
| 16:41.39 | timinator | right now, all my MVC stuff is based on objects |
| 16:43.04 | timinator | who does it another way? and what way do you like your MVC? |
| 16:43.14 | timinator | :) |
| 16:43.53 | bigdog_ut | i like my mvc overeasy with a side of http |
| 16:44.02 | timinator | nice |
| 16:44.13 | _psychic_ | mine is a piece of cake ;) |
| 16:44.18 | timinator | lol |
| 16:45.17 | timinator | I'm fond of a side of https rather than http |
| 16:45.22 | timinator | not as dry, I think |
| 16:45.39 | _psychic_ | I prefer DRY |
| 16:46.00 | timinator | but definitely overeasy, hate it scrambled |
| 16:47.45 | timinator | I'm sure we've all had to take care of some previous programmer's scrambled MVC leftovers |
| 16:47.53 | timinator | :) |
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| 17:43.54 | wps | mindjuju: is there a computer at your office that our presenter can use for his presentation? |
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| 18:38.43 | mindjuju | yup, i'll have compy and projector setup |
| 18:38.56 | mindjuju | next thursday, though right, wps? |
| 18:40.50 | mindjuju | yup, next thursday -- not a prob |
| 18:43.26 | wps | nce |
| 18:43.27 | wps | nice |
| 18:43.27 | wps | thanks |
| 18:43.37 | wps | the presenter doesn't have a laptop |
| 19:12.35 | mindjuju | no worries |
| 19:57.28 | mindjuju | wps, do you know what the presenter is going to be using for presentation? Will he be using powerpoint or something else? |
| 19:58.05 | mindjuju | seems like there are several version of Knoppix that have OSS software if he needs for presentations |
| 20:01.22 | wps | I don't think he'll nee PPT |
| 20:18.04 | *** part/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 21:02.06 | _psychic_ | one of my coworkers has a nigerian spammer on the phone! |
| 21:38.35 | *** join/#uphpu timinator_ (n=timinato@c-67-171-118-199.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 22:00.58 | *** join/#uphpu beandog (n=sdibb@gentoo/developer/beandog) |
| 22:01.14 | beandog | Ok |
| 22:01.16 | beandog | Im really lost |
| 22:01.21 | beandog | Can someone tell me why this is returning true |
| 22:01.31 | beandog | var_dump((string)"C" == (int)0); |
| 22:02.23 | beandog | even without the casting its true. |
| 22:08.32 | timinator_ | you got me dude |
| 22:09.52 | beandog | man |
| 22:09.55 | beandog | it does it on *everything* |
| 22:10.01 | beandog | I tried range('A', 'z'); |
| 22:10.02 | beandog | all true. |
| 22:10.35 | beandog | I have to cast them both to strings to return false. |
| 22:10.44 | beandog | I dont remember seeing that ever before. |
| 22:10.48 | beandog | Certainly makes me nervous. |
| 22:11.35 | timinator_ | either that or use a triple = |
| 22:11.42 | timinator_ | "C" === 0 |
| 22:12.06 | timinator_ | that will take into account casting as well |
| 22:12.07 | beandog | yah |
| 22:12.15 | beandog | but I wanted it to do the string comparision on its own. |
| 22:12.29 | timinator_ | I hear ya... you got me on that one |
| 22:17.38 | beandog | timinator_: what version you running |
| 22:17.49 | timinator_ | 4 |
| 22:17.55 | beandog | and it does it on there too |
| 22:18.42 | timinator_ | 4.4.2 ....yes |
| 22:18.54 | beandog | poop. |
| 22:18.56 | beandog | Im on 5.1.6 |
| 22:19.13 | beandog | I cant believe this is the first time Ive hit this. |
| 22:20.11 | timinator_ | I always seem to have data that is the same type |
| 22:20.32 | timinator_ | count($files) >0 |
| 22:20.35 | timinator_ | and so on |
| 22:20.52 | timinator_ | $username == "timinator" |
| 22:21.13 | beandog | http://us2.php.net/manual/en/language.types.string.php#language.types.string.conversion |
| 22:21.17 | beandog | Theres the documentation |
| 22:21.22 | beandog | I just dont understand *why* they are doing that. |
| 22:25.18 | beandog | huh |
| 22:25.23 | beandog | Does it for any string, looks like. |
| 22:26.14 | beandog | So, dont compare any strings to 0. |
| 22:27.08 | timinator_ | that link you sent to me |
| 22:27.13 | timinator_ | it says this: |
| 22:27.44 | timinator_ | The value is given by the initial portion of the string. If the string starts with valid numeric data, this will be the value used. Otherwise, the value will be 0 (zero). |
| 22:27.59 | timinator_ | so... it appears that it's looking for an int in the string |
| 22:28.04 | timinator_ | to start the string |
| 22:28.25 | timinator_ | when it sees a char to begin with |
| 22:28.49 | timinator_ | it considers the string to have a value of 0 |
| 22:28.54 | timinator_ | that's what it looks like to me |
| 22:29.10 | beandog | yah |
| 22:29.13 | beandog | I still think thats lame. |
| 22:29.46 | timinator_ | I hear ya |
| 22:52.51 | *** join/#uphpu mindjuju (n=Administ@65-121-75-195.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 22:52.59 | mindjuju | anybody around? |
| 22:53.36 | synic | yup |
| 22:53.36 | mindjuju | k, good |
| 22:53.38 | mindjuju | it seems like i read somewhere that nothing is free |
| 22:53.50 | mindjuju | like its in the laws of thermodynamics or something |
| 22:53.57 | mindjuju | then explain this? |
| 22:53.58 | mindjuju | http://freeconferencing.liveoffice.com/ |
| 22:54.23 | mindjuju | cause, the boss found this and wants to switch everything over, and i'm thinking in the back of my head, this is impossible |
| 22:58.47 | timinator_ | nothing gets 'em in the door like the word "free" |
| 23:00.14 | mindjuju | yeah, but we are talking a conference bridge for 250 people at a max of 6hrs per call |
| 23:00.17 | mindjuju | for FREE? |
| 23:00.53 | synic | mindjuju: heh, now I have to send this link to xilch|w |
| 23:01.32 | mindjuju | i'm telling ya, if this == true, then awesome; else this == con |
| 23:01.55 | mindjuju | and i'm still leaning towards the con part |
| 23:02.01 | timinator_ | me too |
| 23:02.03 | mindjuju | like the phone has some crazy surcharge or something |
| 23:02.29 | beandog | maybe they record the whole thing. |
| 23:02.45 | mindjuju | they do, and offer it up as a podcast for 30 days no charge |
| 23:02.52 | beandog | hmm |
| 23:02.52 | mindjuju | ! |
| 23:03.32 | xilch|w | don't do anything on it you couldn't easily switch to someone else for |
| 23:03.39 | beandog | especially when their website hardly loads. |
| 23:04.17 | beandog | meh, probably just me. |
| 23:06.09 | beandog | LiveOffice provides web-based, compliance management solutions as well as collaboration technologies to protect, grow, and enhance your business. |
| 23:06.10 | beandog | sheesh. |
| 23:06.28 | mindjuju | yup |
| 23:06.33 | beandog | http://www.liveoffice.com/website2/products.asp |
| 23:06.57 | mindjuju | i'm calling the telephone operator to find out about charges |
| 23:07.02 | beandog | whats a webinar? |
| 23:07.04 | beandog | holy cow. |
| 23:17.39 | xilch|w | I get emails about growing and enhancing my "business" all the time |