| 00:00.20 | mindjuju | they should just publish the stories the way they were |
| 00:00.32 | diskotec|w | yeah |
| 00:01.51 | diskotec|w | I found a dvd set about guys that were Medal of Honor recipients. They focused on 4 guys and I think that they could do movies on 3 of them. |
| 00:02.17 | mindjuju | what's the name of the DVD set? |
| 00:04.11 | diskotec|w | Beyond the Medal of Honor. All 4 guys are from Pueblo. I think some foundation in Pueblo along with the Ross Perot foundation got together to make the documentary. Tom Brokaw says a few words at the beginning of the series and so does Paul Harvey. |
| 00:06.49 | diskotec|w | well...they could probably make movies about all 4 guys but 3 of them would have a little more action in them. |
| 00:07.14 | diskotec|w | well....dinner time. catch ya later. |
| 00:07.24 | mindjuju | cya |
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| 01:54.37 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 01:54.40 | macnewbold | that never gets old... |
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| 05:16.50 | diskotec|w | anyone around? |
| 05:18.17 | diskotec|w | when running the find command at a prompt I'm getting... |
| 05:18.23 | diskotec|w | find: WARNING: Hard link count is wrong for /proc/5067: this may be a bug in your filesystem driver. Automatically turning on find's -noleaf option. Earlier results may have failed to include directories that should have been searched. |
| 05:50.25 | diskotec|w | hmm....google searching is coming up with a few suggestions that it's a kernel bug |
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| 20:11.19 | mindjuju | yo fungus |
| 20:11.28 | fungus | oy mindjuju |
| 20:11.39 | mindjuju | have you seen this? |
| 20:11.40 | mindjuju | http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060621/ap_on_go_ot/police_phone_data |
| 20:11.44 | wps | ah! |
| 20:11.46 | wps | yahoo.com is the devil |
| 20:12.03 | mindjuju | yeah, but it does have an AP newswire outlet |
| 20:12.08 | mindjuju | that's what I use it for |
| 20:13.12 | fungus | No I haven't read it. I don't read yahoo news. |
| 20:13.19 | wps | go fungus! |
| 20:13.22 | fungus | The article is interesting tho. |
| 20:13.46 | fungus | Not good enough to subscribe to yahoo news. :) |
| 20:14.09 | mindjuju | you don't actually have to subscribe to read the AP Newswire |
| 20:14.27 | mindjuju | could just as easily be washington post or WSJ |
| 20:14.31 | fungus | Most of the AP news shows up on feeds that I do read. |
| 20:14.41 | fungus | exactly. |
| 20:15.13 | mindjuju | figured since we share similar thoughts on DMCA, thought we'd probably find common ground on privacy |
| 20:15.47 | fungus | I am definitely not a privacy zealot. |
| 20:16.03 | fungus | DMCA/DRM zealot, probably. :) |
| 20:16.12 | mindjuju | really? so this kinda stuff doesn't bug? |
| 20:16.41 | fungus | I am concerned with what some companies do. But I think most of the privacy hype is over exaggerated. |
| 20:18.05 | fungus | that article didn't mention exactly *what* data was being collected, nor did it mention exactly *how* |
| 20:18.33 | fungus | "These brokers, many of whom market aggressively on the Internet, have tricked telephone carriers into revealing private customer information" |
| 20:18.41 | mindjuju | well, it actually does mention that CC records, phone calling records (the same the NSA was looking for) etc |
| 20:19.07 | mindjuju | i don't mind so much if gov does it with court order, but private enterprise |
| 20:19.44 | fungus | We don't know what level of "trickery" they went to. |
| 20:19.53 | mindjuju | well, it does say this |
| 20:19.55 | mindjuju | "We must break various rules of law in acquiring all the information we achieve for you," Touch Tone Information Inc. of Denver wrote to a law firm in 1998 that was seeking records of calls made on a calling card. |
| 20:20.20 | fungus | Yes phone companies could be more diligent, but leaks are always inevitable. It is called Social Engineering. |
| 20:20.31 | mindjuju | employees of private enterprise pretending to be Lonnie Olson to get a copy of Lonnie Olsen Cell phone |
| 20:20.45 | mindjuju | or me for that matter. gives me warm fuzzies |
| 20:21.23 | fungus | Exactly. leaks will always happen. |
| 20:21.35 | mindjuju | yeah, i know what social engineering is, and your right about phone companies needing to be more dilligent with penaties for documented leaks |
| 20:21.47 | fungus | It is a security hole in the human interface. |
| 20:22.08 | fungus | Plugging that hole is next to impossible. |
| 20:22.41 | mindjuju | maybe. was just thinking yesterday that I need to drop all my cards and just pay cash for everything |
| 20:23.05 | fungus | Yes I believe the data brokers should be held liable, and charges filed. |
| 20:23.22 | mindjuju | yup, definantly |
| 20:23.28 | fungus | See it is that attitude that is extreme. Some people really think that way. |
| 20:24.31 | mindjuju | well, it's a slippery slope that leads to very bad places |
| 20:24.48 | mindjuju | let's say that I have a particular fondness for twizzlers (which i do) |
| 20:25.48 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 20:25.51 | mindjuju | and my life insurance company decides it wants to pull in all the purchases of everybody that has a policy. They see my somewhat regular purchase of twizzlers and think, hmmm.. this guy ain't eating right, higher risk category |
| 20:26.12 | mindjuju | let's drop him, cause we know he'll be having issues |
| 20:26.49 | mindjuju | that's where that info shouldn't even be available, IMHO |
| 20:27.09 | fungus | That would suck. but that information can be obtained easily. The problem is what the insurance company does with that information. |
| 20:27.26 | fungus | If you eat twizzlers in public, you can't expect your fondness to be private. |
| 20:27.28 | macnewbold | they can always just ask you, under penalty of perjury, if you eat twizzlers more than once a week... and then drop you. |
| 20:27.55 | fungus | Exactly. |
| 20:27.57 | mindjuju | true on both accounts. but it is not nearly as feasible as just calling a databroker |
| 20:28.08 | mindjuju | for 10,000 policies in CSV format |
| 20:28.09 | fungus | That is why reading privacy notices, and contracts is important. |
| 20:28.22 | mindjuju | and running queries against the data |
| 20:28.55 | fungus | If the data brokers don't break the law obtaining the information, I can't expect any recourse. |
| 20:29.27 | fungus | Think of it as the neighborhood gossip on a massive scale. |
| 20:29.38 | fungus | It's going to happen. Just accept it. |
| 20:29.49 | mindjuju | well, if you use your "discount card" (the please track every one of my purchases to my CC and phone num) at the grocery store |
| 20:29.50 | macnewbold | it's not so much a problem for me of them knowing public things about me in easy-to-access-and-use formats, |
| 20:29.53 | mindjuju | then your just asking for trouble |
| 20:29.58 | macnewbold | but what they do with it |
| 20:30.16 | macnewbold | it's the people that are doing illegal things with my info that are most frustrating |
| 20:30.34 | mindjuju | but, the information that the article specifically mentions includes records of phone logs who you called, when |
| 20:30.39 | mindjuju | CC purchases |
| 20:30.42 | macnewbold | there are some things that should remain private and confidential, and I should know exactly who has access to that info, |
| 20:30.50 | macnewbold | but anything public is pretty much open game, |
| 20:30.52 | mindjuju | ain't nobody's busiiness but my wife and my banker |
| 20:31.02 | fungus | Now stealing your CC number and using it, is not ok. but knowing that I drink lots of Coke is just fine. |
| 20:31.05 | macnewbold | unless they're combining all that to steal my identity or something |
| 20:31.48 | fungus | Anything you expect to be private should never be placed in public. |
| 20:32.08 | macnewbold | who I telephone, where I spend my money, etc. should be between me, my bank/credit card co/phone co and the other participant in the transaction (phone call recipient, store, etc.) |
| 20:32.10 | mindjuju | i've heard the courts say that, Seattle Upskirts come to mind |
| 20:32.18 | macnewbold | what? |
| 20:32.23 | fungus | example, buying 10 bags of twizzlers in a grocery store is public. |
| 20:32.31 | macnewbold | within reason, yes |
| 20:32.31 | mindjuju | well, that if you are in a public place you have no expectation of privacy |
| 20:32.40 | mindjuju | there was a case in Seattle |
| 20:32.41 | macnewbold | for certain things, no |
| 20:32.50 | mindjuju | where guys were taking pictures of women underskirts |
| 20:32.58 | mindjuju | some kind of camera in their shoes or something |
| 20:33.07 | mindjuju | the women sued the website who was sending people out |
| 20:33.09 | macnewbold | underneath your clothing should always have a pretty darn good expectation of privacy |
| 20:33.10 | fungus | Right, and using those images is illegal. |
| 20:33.21 | mindjuju | and the courts ruled against them saying no exptectation of privacy in public forum |
| 20:33.40 | mindjuju | yeah, see, i'm against Seattle upskirt, but the court wasn't |
| 20:33.48 | macnewbold | did it get appealed? |
| 20:34.22 | mindjuju | i didn't follow it beyond the court ruling, but I can see what happened during lunch and send you the info |
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| 20:59.37 | macnewbold | it ought to get appealed |
| 20:59.45 | macnewbold | pictures of a person are one thing, |
| 21:00.11 | macnewbold | but circumventing all reasonable attempts to prevent someone from seeing up your skirt shouldn't be legal |
| 21:00.12 | macnewbold | even in public |
| 21:01.10 | mindjuju | yeah, that's how i feel, except that I prolly take it to the level of semi-zealot, as I don't even like "traffic cams" on the street level |
| 21:01.30 | fungus | yeah, that is semi-zealot. |
| 21:01.31 | mindjuju | why not just call them, POLICE - BIG BROTHER CAMS so we know your license plate and where you go cam |
| 21:01.34 | fungus | :) |
| 21:01.43 | mindjuju | hey! i admit it |
| 21:01.55 | mindjuju | and maybe i wouldn't take it so bad if they were upfront about it |
| 21:03.17 | fungus | I don't have a problem with traffic cams, but I do have a problem with wiretapping w/o a warrant. |
| 21:03.55 | mindjuju | true that. |
| 21:03.56 | Utah_Dave | I have a problem with traffic cams. |
| 21:04.00 | mindjuju | well, about the wire tap |
| 21:04.10 | mindjuju | yeah! utah_dave and I see eye to eye! |
| 21:04.16 | mindjuju | i was begining to feel all alone |
| 21:04.49 | Utah_Dave | traffic cams are like the Soviet Russia monitors checking ID's on everyone who enter or left a city or parts of a city |
| 21:05.32 | mindjuju | Exactly!!! and we are slipping to the level that they are being used in England |
| 21:05.39 | mindjuju | where they do practically know who is where |
| 21:06.23 | mindjuju | who as in that guy with the blue cap who started 10 miles ago and we still know where he is. i don't think they have it connected to a name... yet |
| 21:07.36 | Utah_Dave | I know it was nice for the brit police to be able to scan all the subway and bus video footage to find those guys who set off bombs a while ago. |
| 21:07.51 | Utah_Dave | but I found the amount of video cameras they had spread around the city shocking |
| 21:12.36 | mindjuju | ~dataw0lf |
| 21:12.37 | jbot | dataw0lf is, like, sleeping again, or da supahstah, or a dink, or #utah's number one troll, or known by his full title: dataw0lf, Destroyer of Newbies, Troll of the Seas of IRC, God of All that is Technical, etc, etc, or a lamer as per "~nickometer dataw0lf", or stderr |
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| 21:29.35 | macnewbold | ~seen dataw0lf |
| 21:29.50 | jbot | dataw0lf <n=dataw0lf@70.103.239.58> was last seen on IRC in channel #utah, 35d 15h 33m 16s ago, saying: 'link seems dead, levi.'. |
| 21:30.00 | mindjuju | sent him an email yesterday seeing what up |
| 21:30.05 | macnewbold | 'dataw0lf seems dead, mindjuju' |
| 21:30.32 | mindjuju | well, it's prolly some girlie somewhere that he's met |
| 21:30.49 | mindjuju | but in light of what you said about him torching his room accidentally, just wanted to be sure |
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| 22:20.26 | macnewbold | yeah, the girlie theory had crossed my mind too |
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