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| 03:44.18 | dataw0lf- | can anyone advise of a reasonable place to buy POS boxes locally? |
| 03:44.43 | jsmith | POS? Sure, but do you want *cheap* POS boxes... |
| 03:45.31 | dataw0lf- | yes, very cheap |
| 03:45.46 | jsmith | Used? New? |
| 03:45.49 | dataw0lf- | not something that's going to die in a day, but I'm just setting up a mock network for a couple projects. |
| 03:45.56 | dataw0lf- | depends on the quality of the equipment. |
| 03:46.06 | jsmith | For used stuff, try MAS computers in Orem |
| 03:46.14 | jsmith | They've got a *large* selection :-) |
| 03:46.18 | dataw0lf- | nice :) |
| 03:46.26 | jsmith | Everything from barely-used to way-past-its-prime. |
| 03:46.36 | dataw0lf- | cool. |
| 03:47.07 | dataw0lf- | I'm about to get several estoretic computers with varying architectures but I also need about 6 or so x86 boxes for this network setup |
| 03:47.26 | jsmith | That many? |
| 03:47.31 | dataw0lf- | yea. |
| 03:47.45 | dataw0lf- | well, I could do with less, but *shrug* |
| 03:47.54 | jsmith | Can't just use virtual machines for the simulation, eh? |
| 03:48.00 | dataw0lf- | Nope. |
| 03:48.49 | jsmith | Well, you can build yourself a nice little cluster when you're done... |
| 03:49.21 | dataw0lf- | yea, and distcc of course |
| 03:49.30 | jsmith | Surplus sales (at the U, or the State) are often a pretty good spot to scrounge up POS computers |
| 03:49.52 | dataw0lf- | yea, I love bulk sales at universities. |
| 03:50.02 | dataw0lf- | they got a schedule for those anywhere? |
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| 13:52.46 | *** topic/#uphpu by wps -> Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org |
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| 15:21.55 | wps | how'd the meeting go? |
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| 16:00.15 | jsmith | How was the meeting last night? |
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| 16:04.19 | _psychic_ | I'd like to hear about it |
| 16:30.01 | macnewbold | wps, jsmith, _psychic_: meeting was good |
| 16:30.14 | macnewbold | Richard talked for a while about frameworks in general, what MVC is, why it is good |
| 16:30.16 | jsmith | I wish I could have made it, but my wife was sick, so I got to play babysitter |
| 16:30.24 | jsmith | Nice. |
| 16:30.24 | macnewbold | then John, creator of PHP on Trax spoke |
| 16:30.26 | jsmith | Did someone record it by chance? |
| 16:30.27 | macnewbold | for about an hour or so |
| 16:30.33 | macnewbold | jsmith: I don't think so |
| 16:30.35 | macnewbold | :( |
| 16:30.53 | macnewbold | John went through the API a bit, and how you use it |
| 16:31.02 | macnewbold | it's really a php lookalike for Rails |
| 16:31.10 | macnewbold | one of the guys there had used Rails extensively |
| 16:31.13 | _psychic_ | its a port afaik |
| 16:31.24 | macnewbold | and said you could easily learn PHP on Trax from a Rails bok |
| 16:31.26 | macnewbold | book |
| 16:31.44 | jsmith | Interesting... |
| 16:31.47 | macnewbold | _psychic_: yeah, I guess you could call it a port - he's not doing a "line-by-line" port of rails like some of the others are trying to do |
| 16:31.53 | jsmith | Does it tie only to one particular database? |
| 16:31.56 | macnewbold | but he's keeping the API |
| 16:32.05 | macnewbold | he uses Pear::DB, so should work portably |
| 16:32.08 | macnewbold | for the most part, anyway |
| 16:32.22 | macnewbold | he mentioned MySQL and PG |
| 16:32.30 | macnewbold | but says he doesn't test it much on PG |
| 16:32.33 | jsmith | As long as it works w/ PG, I'm happy. |
| 16:32.36 | jsmith | Doh! |
| 16:32.53 | macnewbold | it probably does |
| 16:33.02 | macnewbold | he just doesn't use it that way |
| 16:33.09 | macnewbold | he'd be happy to take patches if you found problems |
| 16:33.10 | jsmith | I'll have to try it out ... |
| 16:33.12 | macnewbold | oh, and it is PHP5 only |
| 16:33.13 | jsmith | Cool. |
| 16:33.16 | jsmith | That's OK. |
| 16:33.22 | jsmith | PHP5 is what I'm running. |
| 16:33.27 | macnewbold | he mentioned a whole list of them |
| 16:33.38 | macnewbold | Cake, Biscuit, symfony, etc. |
| 16:33.48 | jsmith | symfony is awful |
| 16:33.50 | jsmith | Have you tried it? |
| 16:33.58 | jsmith | Their tutorial is awful too. |
| 16:34.16 | jsmith | What a bloated evil "the framwork is bigger than the app" framework |
| 16:34.28 | jsmith | Haven't tried Cake... |
| 16:36.32 | macnewbold | I looked at cake once, and it scared me |
| 16:36.45 | _psychic_ | macnewbold: why? |
| 16:37.22 | macnewbold | looked way more complex than what I wanted. that, and it forced me into OOP everywhere, and decided how my URLs had to look, and made a bunch of other decisions for me that I didn't want it to make |
| 16:37.40 | macnewbold | many of those things are problems I have with most frameworks, so it's not really that specific to cake |
| 16:37.45 | macnewbold | but I took one look at the API, |
| 16:37.55 | macnewbold | and I don't think I saw a single function with a name shorter than 20 chars |
| 16:38.25 | _psychic_ | well, it is MVC, so, you're gonna be OOP in most places. |
| 16:38.33 | macnewbold | it just does things very differently than what I want to do them |
| 16:38.40 | macnewbold | many are OOP, but some are not |
| 16:38.48 | macnewbold | for example, Cake is PHP5+OOP, |
| 16:38.54 | macnewbold | and Biscuit is PHP4+procedural :) |
| 16:39.00 | _psychic_ | And you can decide how you want to do URLs, its configurable |
| 16:39.08 | _psychic_ | cake is php4/5 and oop |
| 16:39.32 | _psychic_ | and most all the functions in the api are short.... so I'm not sure it was cake you were looking at. :/ |
| 16:39.34 | macnewbold | I stand corrected. if I'm going to try one in the near future it would probably be Biscuit, since I have no php5 on hand, and all the cool stuff you can do with oop that really helps isn't in php4 |
| 16:40.02 | macnewbold | well, the web site said Cake on it, and had a big picture of a cake. Pink icing if I recall correctly, don't remember if there were candles or not. |
| 16:40.30 | _psychic_ | cake 0.10.x is php 4 friendly, and so will 1.0 be so, but 2.0 will probably move to php5 |
| 16:40.32 | macnewbold | well, they've got a new website now |
| 16:40.56 | _psychic_ | we've come a long way, though, so ymmv |
| 16:42.01 | macnewbold | yeah, it has been several months at least since I looked at it |
| 16:42.10 | macnewbold | probably 6 months, maybe 8-9 |
| 16:42.23 | macnewbold | back before we were trying to get Phlyte rolling |
| 16:42.59 | macnewbold | I really liked some of the stuff I saw in Trax though... it overcomes some of the major issues I have with many MVC things |
| 16:43.28 | macnewbold | many of them say it is better to split it into 3 files, but with a lot of them that just means you have to edit 3 files instead of 1 when something changes... |
| 16:43.34 | macnewbold | but with Trax, that's not the case |
| 16:43.45 | _psychic_ | how does it combine then? |
| 16:43.48 | _psychic_ | *them? |
| 16:43.56 | macnewbold | because it uses some cool php5 features to overload -> for example |
| 16:44.28 | macnewbold | it uses 3 files, but makes it so that you don't have to change them all around when something changes. |
| 16:44.41 | macnewbold | they stick quite closely to the Rails API |
| 16:45.25 | _psychic_ | I don't understand. |
| 16:45.32 | macnewbold | nevermind |
| 16:45.36 | macnewbold | hard to explain |
| 16:48.32 | _psychic_ | :/ |
| 16:48.39 | macnewbold | maybe in a sec |
| 16:48.42 | macnewbold | busy at work :) |
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| 20:51.46 | _psychic_ | anyone know a good SVN browser for php/ |
| 20:57.39 | jsmith | _psychic_: For PHP? Hmmmn.... wasn't there one in the Horde collection of apps -- Chora or something like that. |
| 20:57.55 | wps | _psychic_: do you mean written in PHP? |
| 20:57.58 | jsmith | There's also one called WebSVN on tigris.org, but it doesn't appear to have been updated in years... |
| 20:58.10 | jsmith | _psychic_: What's wrong with ViewCVS? |
| 20:58.19 | jsmith | _psychic_: (Other than the fact it's not written in PHP) |
| 21:05.43 | _psychic_ | jsmith: The fact that its CVS and not SVN ;) |
| 21:06.07 | jsmith | _psychic_: It works with svn as well |
| 21:06.11 | _psychic_ | jsmith: We've tried chora... and its cool enough, but it kinda sucks |
| 21:06.19 | jsmith | Yeah |
| 21:07.01 | _psychic_ | ~bonk jsmith |
| 21:07.03 | jbot | ACTION bonks jsmith over the head |
| 21:07.07 | _psychic_ | its python |
| 21:10.37 | _psychic_ | I tried Trac (which is also python), but I'm having svn binding issues I can't solve. I really need something that is SVN and PHP. |
| 21:19.30 | macnewbold | what does google say about it? |
| 21:22.41 | _psychic_ | not much |
| 21:22.47 | _psychic_ | that's why I'm asking ;) |
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| 21:27.32 | dataw0lf | Python > PHP. |
| 21:27.34 | dataw0lf | that is all. |
| 21:28.40 | _psychic_ | not for me right now it isn't ;) |
| 21:33.03 | Utah_Dave | flexysvn seems to work pretty well. but it appears to be a xul/php combo for firefox. |
| 21:37.19 | _psychic_ | hm... gots to be cross browser |
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| 21:43.50 | dataw0lf | they have svn bindings in PHP, right? |
| 21:43.55 | dataw0lf | don't have time to write your own? |
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| 21:59.01 | _psychic_ | dataw0lf: do you? |
| 21:59.03 | _psychic_ | ;) |
| 22:00.29 | dataw0lf | actually, I was working on a web based Sourceforge clone / SVN tracker in Python for a while, but other projects and my fellow developers becoming busy with school and work diverted my attention. |
| 22:01.23 | dataw0lf | and was actually using WebSVN for development of it |
| 22:01.27 | dataw0lf | http://svn.zzq.org/websvn/listing.php?repname=ironforge&path=%2F&sc=0 |
| 22:01.59 | dataw0lf | we didn't get much done, about a weeks worth of work, but we're probably going to start picking up development again this summer. |
| 22:05.22 | dataw0lf | by that time, my IronSite framework will be completely finished, so we'll be able to integrate that. We'll probably completely restructure Ironforge, though, because I really never liked how it was designed in the first place. |
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