| 00:00.48 | macnewbold | stderr: we missed you yesterday :( |
| 00:01.13 | srippee | nick hypexr |
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| 02:41.24 | bigdog_ut | whatz up all |
| 02:41.34 | jsmith | My blood pressure? |
| 02:41.42 | jsmith | The number of things added to my to-do list? |
| 02:41.51 | jsmith | The price of a good doughnut? |
| 02:44.39 | bigdog_ut | jsmith wants to get kicked |
| 02:44.58 | jsmith | Naw... |
| 02:45.09 | jsmith | Just trying to add a little humor to a long day |
| 02:45.21 | bigdog_ut | long day is right |
| 02:46.03 | bigdog_ut | and more work still |
| 02:46.24 | bigdog_ut | i so want to give up php |
| 02:46.42 | jsmith | Me too... but it keeps dragging me back. |
| 02:47.19 | bigdog_ut | i htink im just going to quite all my side jobs |
| 02:49.19 | bigdog_ut | and make it official |
| 02:49.34 | bigdog_ut | can we just say php5 official sucks |
| 02:50.15 | bigdog_ut | if you can even do namespacing...then you suck |
| 02:50.39 | jsmith | Yeah... the only thing I really like about PHP 5 is the SOAP module. |
| 02:51.37 | bigdog_ut | it is okay |
| 02:52.17 | jsmith | You missed the Amazon web services meeting... but that got me hooked on playing around with SOAP. |
| 02:54.04 | bigdog_ut | i use soap a lot at work and tons of messaging services |
| 02:54.07 | bigdog_ut | like mq |
| 02:54.14 | bigdog_ut | so i get a big fix |
| 02:54.20 | jsmith | I see... |
| 02:54.49 | bigdog_ut | queue messaging is nice |
| 02:55.12 | bigdog_ut | now database messaging is way cool |
| 02:55.57 | jsmith | I'm not sure what you mean by "database messaging" |
| 02:56.11 | bigdog_ut | running messaging services in the db |
| 02:56.20 | bigdog_ut | oracle does it alot |
| 02:56.32 | bigdog_ut | its coined oracle advanced queueing |
| 02:56.42 | jsmith | Aha... that makes sense. |
| 02:56.55 | bigdog_ut | i do alot on the server and in the db |
| 02:58.51 | bigdog_ut | ive been looking into doing webservices with jabber too |
| 02:59.31 | jsmith | Funny... I've been doing a tiny bit with XMMP and ASterisk. |
| 02:59.42 | jsmith | s/XMMP/XMPP/ |
| 02:59.43 | bigdog_ut | yeah jabber is good for that |
| 03:00.07 | bigdog_ut | ajax and jabber |
| 03:00.19 | bigdog_ut | realtime communication via the web |
| 03:00.23 | bigdog_ut | browser |
| 03:00.58 | tierra | heh, that presentation about got me hooked on SOAP... which was going to be a miracle since I've hated SOAP since it first came out |
| 03:01.34 | bigdog_ut | the concept is nice...just i hate the specs on it |
| 03:01.40 | tierra | just his small php5 example at the end about got me playing with it that night, but I got caught up with something else |
| 03:01.44 | bigdog_ut | alot of overhead |
| 03:02.02 | tierra | yeah, that hits the mark |
| 03:02.38 | tierra | there never was any "simple" implementation of it for it to be useful for a small project |
| 03:03.40 | bigdog_ut | yeah |
| 03:03.54 | bigdog_ut | small projects..its too much a hassle |
| 03:04.07 | bigdog_ut | even in an enterprise app we tend not to use it as much |
| 03:04.13 | tierra | heh |
| 03:04.24 | tierra | I could see that |
| 03:04.25 | bigdog_ut | good for ESBs though |
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| 15:51.37 | macnewbold | ~zippy |
| 16:42.54 | wps | bigdog_ut, you still cranky? |
| 16:50.25 | wps | bigdog_ut was bashing on PHP last night |
| 16:50.38 | wps | I say we toilet paper his house |
| 16:50.40 | wps | who's in? |
| 16:51.37 | RyanE | @wps: in on what? Bashing on PHP? |
| 16:51.49 | wps | in on toilet papering his house |
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| 17:29.12 | wps | awesome |
| 17:29.24 | wps | Firefox market share reaches 11.5% |
| 17:29.45 | macnewbold | nice :) |
| 17:29.52 | macnewbold | according to what/who? |
| 17:30.14 | wps | ZDNet |
| 17:30.29 | macnewbold | sweet |
| 17:30.44 | macnewbold | so does that mean we can stop hacking everything to be msie compatible now? |
| 17:34.55 | RyanE | mac: just another 88%, then yes. |
| 17:34.58 | fungus | Yes. the fewer "hacks" the more people will realize that IE sux. |
| 17:35.10 | wps | I agree, fungus |
| 17:35.21 | wps | let people find the site looking poor |
| 17:35.46 | RyanE | fungus: the problem is, the audience doesn't see tha 'hacks', and @wps' suggestion to let them see a degraded version is pretty impractical for a business. |
| 17:35.48 | fungus | All web developers should protest by blocking people using IE. |
| 17:35.54 | RyanE | hehe |
| 17:36.08 | RyanE | yeah, get your CIO to sign off on that one... |
| 17:36.17 | fungus | Yeah, I know, but I can wish. |
| 17:36.28 | wps | don't bar them from your site (saying your browser isn't supported), but put up a not that says that this looks like crap because your browser can render it right |
| 17:36.38 | RyanE | I'd rather wish for a large pile of money to come into my site. |
| 17:36.39 | wps | yes, not doable for all businesses, but you can in many instances |
| 17:36.50 | macnewbold | RyanE: if the MSIE world won't make themselves compatible for the 10-20% minority who don't like MSIE, then why should we keep catering to them once they're the minority? |
| 17:37.02 | RyanE | @wps: you're also living in a dream world. No business would do that. |
| 17:37.22 | RyanE | @macnewbold: they just MAY be compatible by the time they're in the minority |
| 17:37.34 | fungus | In other news, Safari, the first browser to pass the Acid2 test. |
| 17:37.35 | fungus | http://www.webstandards.org/act/acid2/test.html |
| 17:37.45 | RyanE | but until then, you don't have much choice other than to cater to them, realistically. |
| 17:37.49 | wps | I disagree. I know may that have accepted minor rendering issues in MSIE. |
| 17:37.55 | macnewbold | I'd like to put a thing on some of my sites that says "This site is optimized for standards compliant browsers, like Mozilla Firefox. If you're viewing this site with Microsoft Internet Explorer, the bugs in your browser will become apparent." |
| 17:38.49 | RyanE | I'm just talking practicality of trying to do that at a corp. If you want to do that at on a personal site, that's your business, but bitching about what browser people are using is not good business. |
| 17:40.23 | wps | well, that's up the person running the business |
| 17:40.38 | wps | macnewbold, I think that that sounds great. I would leave off the "like Mozilla Firefox" though |
| 17:40.46 | wps | that makes it sound like you just like that browser better |
| 17:41.08 | macnewbold | well, it's the best recommendation for windows users right now |
| 17:46.12 | wps | "This site is built using industry standards. If viewed with a non-standards-compliant browser, you may experience inconsistencies in layout and/or abnormal behavior. We recommend using a standards-compliant browser. You can download one here: http://browsehappy.com" |
| 17:47.24 | wps | just have it display quickly when the site is first loaded and then fade away… like a growl message |
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| 18:43.19 | fungus | yay, I just upgraded my box to FreeBSD 6.0-STABLE |
| 18:44.04 | fungus | It was almost painless too. |
| 18:44.08 | jsmith | Cool -- I'll be TWM is so much faster now... |
| 18:44.09 | macnewbold | sweet! |
| 18:44.10 | macnewbold | from what? |
| 18:44.16 | fungus | 5.4 |
| 18:44.19 | jsmith | s/be/bet/ |
| 18:44.28 | fungus | lol |
| 18:45.04 | fungus | Besides the long mergemaster it was as simple as an world/kernel install. |
| 18:46.06 | macnewbold | sweet |
| 18:46.42 | fungus | the ISO's aren't ready yet, but the src tree is already tagged for 6.0-RELEASE |
| 18:50.11 | macnewbold | so what does 6.0 release buy you other than geek points? any new features worth mentioning? |
| 18:55.07 | fungus | new wireless support, including WPA. |
| 18:59.18 | fungus | better performance with SMP, file systems are no longer under a giant lock, etc |
| 18:59.58 | jsmith | Wow... it sounds like FreeBSD might be worth trying again. |
| 19:01.22 | fungus | also ppc support greatly improved. |
| 19:02.56 | jsmith | blah... who wants to pay for overprice hardware, just to put free software on it? |
| 19:03.01 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 19:03.22 | macnewbold | but overpriced hardware + free OS = better performance than same hardware with overpriced OS :) |
| 19:03.34 | jsmith | Probably so. |
| 19:03.43 | jsmith | Personally, I go for cheap hardware with free OS |
| 19:04.41 | fungus | but it is pretty hardware. |
| 19:04.57 | fungus | dead sexy. |
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| 22:24.28 | com4 | this is an unrelated question to php but i figured i'd give it a shot |
| 22:24.50 | com4 | with CVS, can i have a CVS root in project folders to define access to certain users |
| 22:25.26 | com4 | repos/project/CVSROOT/readers is teh file i want to mess with |
| 22:25.38 | com4 | but it's using the system to authenticate, not pserver |
| 22:26.59 | fungus | sure, IIRC all cvs permissions are simple file system permissions. |
| 22:34.21 | com4 | yeah, they are |
| 22:34.30 | com4 | but say i have 3 people that i want to be able to write to it |
| 22:34.38 | com4 | and 2 people that i want to give only checkout access to |
| 22:34.43 | com4 | i can have 1 owner and 1 group |
| 22:35.52 | macnewbold | the 3 writers could be group, and the 2 viewers could be world, if you can figure out how to keep everyone else out |
| 22:37.18 | macnewbold | or let the three writers share an acct, and make the group be the readers :) |
| 22:37.21 | com4 | ah, i didn't think about that :) |
| 22:37.27 | macnewbold | can you use acls? |
| 22:37.39 | com4 | the 3 writers sharing an account is less than desirable |
| 22:37.54 | com4 | sure, cvs has acls? |
| 22:38.06 | macnewbold | file systems have acls sometimes |
| 22:38.45 | com4 | Ah |
| 22:45.31 | fungus | It might take a bit of work to get your filesystem to work with acls, but I think most modern OS's and filesystems support them. |
| 22:46.05 | fungus | And if yours doesn't you can always switch to FreeBSD. :) |
| 22:46.16 | com4 | heh |
| 22:46.16 | com4 | i'd like to |
| 22:46.20 | com4 | they're still windows based |
| 22:46.31 | fungus | no, I mean on the server. |
| 22:46.33 | com4 | i've luckily got 1 linux box... if you can call it that |
| 22:46.37 | com4 | right |
| 22:46.39 | com4 | so do i :) |
| 22:46.54 | fungus | hell, even windows has acls. |
| 22:47.03 | com4 | yeah, that's true |
| 22:47.16 | com4 | though i'm very windows retarded |
| 22:47.33 | com4 | have an easier time on freebsd |
| 22:47.40 | com4 | and i don't use freebsd very often |
| 22:47.51 | wps | ~com4 |
| 22:48.10 | fungus | I am fine with windows as long as I don't need/want to be productive. eg. games. |
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