| 00:51.00 | *** join/#uphpu wps (n=wade@65.73.113.199) |
| 00:51.03 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 03:20.56 | *** join/#uphpu mindjuju (n=mindjuju@216.20.238.225) |
| 03:22.19 | *** join/#uphpu com4 (i=com4@antitech.xmission.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:22.49 | *** join/#uphpu LightGuard (n=jason@leporter.dsl.xmission.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:22.49 | *** join/#uphpu diskotec|w (n=UN@12.125.156.114) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 03:22.49 | *** join/#uphpu RyanE (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 03:26.14 | *** join/#uphpu LightGua1d (n=jason@leporter.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 03:29.31 | *** join/#uphpu stderr (n=stderr@c-67-166-64-28.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 03:32.54 | *** join/#uphpu RyanE_ (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 13:08.13 | *** join/#uphpu RyanE (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 14:09.27 | *** join/#uphpu synic (n=synic@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 14:11.59 | *** join/#uphpu bigdog_ut (n=bigdog_u@shylonhunter.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 14:11.59 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o bigdog_ut] by ChanServ |
| 14:20.47 | *** join/#uphpu wps (n=wade@207.135.130.2) |
| 14:20.50 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 14:37.43 | *** join/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@0-2pool130-200.nas28.salt-lake-city1.ut.us.da.qwest.net) |
| 14:37.53 | Utah_Dave | morning all |
| 14:37.58 | mindjuju | yo |
| 14:56.50 | *** join/#uphpu xilch|w (n=zandork@66.239.17.226.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 15:13.28 | LightGua1d | Morning. |
| 15:23.57 | *** join/#uphpu synic (n=synic@66.239.17.226.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 15:31.01 | macnewbold | ~zippy |
| 16:01.32 | *** join/#uphpu drewbono (n=andrew@m615e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 16:02.55 | *** join/#uphpu fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 16:12.16 | *** join/#uphpu jsmith (n=jsmith@64.0.192.113) |
| 16:27.04 | Utah_Dave | has anybody here had any experience with the Lampshade php framework that was posted to the list? |
| 16:29.57 | jsmith | link? |
| 16:32.17 | RyanE | dunno, but their website was really ugly, at least on Firefox Win. |
| 16:35.00 | RyanE | http://www.thinkcomputer.com/software/lampshade/index.html |
| 16:35.02 | RyanE | ug |
| 16:35.28 | mindjuju | k, that pun is just awful |
| 16:35.33 | mindjuju | The PHP Framework That Makes Cents. |
| 16:36.17 | mindjuju | what the jones!!! |
| 16:36.29 | RyanE | and... I was a bit turned off when I read in the press release: "The company will still charge fees for commercial use of the product as listed on its web site. " |
| 16:36.57 | mindjuju | wow! |
| 16:36.59 | mindjuju | CPU License |
| 16:36.59 | mindjuju | Standard: $3,999.00 |
| 16:36.59 | mindjuju | E-Commerce: $4,999.00 |
| 16:36.59 | mindjuju | Academic: $1,999.00 |
| 16:37.01 | jsmith | Yuck! |
| 16:37.05 | jsmith | It's not free! |
| 16:37.42 | Utah_Dave | from the press release it sounded like they were releasing it under an OpenSource license, but I don't see anything about that on their web page |
| 16:38.11 | RyanE | they have one press release that says 'free for personal use', then another one that says 'available as open source, but we'll still charge you for commercial use.' |
| 16:38.17 | mindjuju | yeah, i guess nobody thought well enough to buy it, have to start shoveling it out for free |
| 16:38.42 | Utah_Dave | open source as in, if you don't use it commercially you can view the source |
| 16:38.54 | macnewbold | you can see the source in any case |
| 16:38.57 | RyanE | which of course they would want you to get familiar with it, then when a commercial project pops up, you already have a solution, although you'll need to pay for it. |
| 16:39.11 | macnewbold | you just can't run the source for commercial purposes without paying them a bundle |
| 16:39.24 | Utah_Dave | yep |
| 16:39.50 | RyanE | can't blame them, but I'm not going to use a framework that locks me in that way. |
| 16:40.08 | jsmith | me neither |
| 16:40.09 | RyanE | the PHP Framework that makes *them* Cents. :) |
| 16:40.54 | RyanE | how would you sell a PHP framework without you being able to see the source, unless you're obsfucating it, which is pretty pointless in many cases. |
| 16:41.18 | jsmith | You can semi-compile PHP code :-) |
| 16:41.48 | jsmith | You don't remember the whole Zend Accelerator/Optimizer/Whatchamacallit thing? |
| 16:42.12 | RyanE | yeah, I know it's *possible*. I even use an accelerator on my personal website, but not to obsfucate the code. |
| 16:46.42 | mindjuju | i think the word should be redefined |
| 16:54.41 | optikal | http://www.browsercam.com -- very cool site if you need to check for a broad range of site browser/platform compatability |
| 16:55.12 | mindjuju | hey optikal, sup |
| 16:55.27 | optikal | namuch, just workin to the grindstone |
| 17:09.20 | macnewbold | browsercam wants $20/day for a single user, or $60 for a month (single user), or $40/month for 10 users w/auto-recurring billing. Or pay for a year at $40/month, and you get access for 25 users for 13 months. |
| 17:09.22 | macnewbold | what a rip off! |
| 18:42.01 | *** join/#uphpu gthornock (n=gthornoc@translate.sento.com) |
| 18:47.51 | *** join/#uphpu jsmith (n=jsmith@64.0.192.113) |
| 19:56.27 | *** join/#uphpu synic (n=synic@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 20:09.23 | mindjuju | got a question. I have to create a report with 4 columns. column 1 and 2 the result of a join statement. col 3 is going to display computations from an all together different table from col 1 and 2. col 4 is going to show computations from a table all together different than those used in col 1, col 2 or col 3 |
| 20:10.08 | mindjuju | so the question is, at this point do i 1) hammer that into a massive inner join statement 2)slit wrists 3)both |
| 20:38.20 | Utah_Dave | mindjuju: are you using php5? |
| 20:39.19 | mindjuju | i'm embarassed to say that I'm actually building this into a coldfusion page |
| 20:39.25 | mindjuju | but not my call |
| 20:39.48 | mindjuju | though was thinking the backend query should be similar despite the server code |
| 20:50.43 | fungus | as long as all the tables relate on the same key it won't be hard, just a long ugly join statement. |
| 20:52.12 | mindjuju | right now i'm trying to figure out how to get the computation to happen for col 3 using some of the data from the inner join of col 1, col 2.-- that is to say, i need the same userid from col1&col2 to be used to count the number of rows in table 3 |
| 20:54.17 | mindjuju | see, what is happening is that i have a select statement over an inner join. and the results of that select statment isolates a userid which i'd now like to see how many instances of an event from table 3 occured for that user, for every user identified from the select statement over col 1 & 2 |
| 20:54.23 | mindjuju | does that make sense? |
| 21:00.00 | fungus | kind of. sounds really ugly. if you had mysql 5 you could use subqueries. |
| 21:02.02 | jsmith | Or postgresql :-) |
| 21:04.18 | fungus | a GROUP BY clause could handle the counting in table 3 |
| 21:07.25 | fungus | maybe something similar to this. |
| 21:07.29 | fungus | SELECT a.userid, a.name, b.address, COUNT(*) as rows |
| 21:07.29 | fungus | FROM a,b,c WHERE a.userid=b.userid AND a.userid=c.userid |
| 21:07.29 | fungus | GROUP BY c.userid |
| 21:12.52 | mindjuju | going down the subqueries method. never had a need to use it before now, didn't think about it as an option until you recommended it. thnx fungus! |
| 21:14.00 | fungus | yeah, it is rare they are desired, and usually even when they are desired there is another way to do it anyway. It is rare that these situations come up. IMHO. |
| 21:14.09 | fungus | postgres-- |
| 21:16.28 | jsmith | Sure, it's simpler -- it doesn't support as many features :-) |
| 21:16.37 | jsmith | As for stability, I've seen a lot more corrupted tables on MySQL |
| 21:16.49 | jsmith | And as far as ubiquity goes -- I could care less |
| 21:37.49 | jsmith | I fight them daily. |
| 21:38.00 | jsmith | Of course, I'm talking terabytes of MySQL data... |
| 21:40.19 | mindjuju | that sounds bad. while i was researching a sql topic earlier today, i read about one admin's lament that he inherited a table with 400 fields and millions of records, indexes on 12 of those fields |
| 21:40.23 | mindjuju | pretty crazy |
| 21:40.24 | fungus | I picked up MySQL really fast, but I am still fighting with the hideous way postgres does authentication. |
| 21:41.22 | fungus | I pretty much gave up, and gave the project to the sys guy that actually likes postgres. |
| 21:42.13 | mindjuju | good thing bigdog isn't here, he's a huge fan of postgres. though i'm personally partial to MySQL |
| 21:42.34 | fungus | I thought my 5G table full of email addresses was huge, I couldn't imaging a table that huge. |
| 21:43.42 | jsmith | mindjuju: That's an especially bad story, considering that MySQL will only use one index on any given query... |
| 21:43.55 | fungus | To be honest it is just personal preference. mysql just fits me well. |
| 21:44.08 | jsmith | I've used MySQL a ton too, don't get me wrong. |
| 21:44.36 | jsmith | I just happen to like PostgreSQL better for the majority of the projects I have control over. |
| 21:44.42 | fungus | postgres isn't bad, I just don't want to manage it. |
| 21:45.15 | macnewbold | fungus and his 5GB list of email addresses.... he must be working for a spammer |
| 21:45.20 | fungus | cron jobs for nightly vacuuming just plain sucks |
| 21:45.46 | macnewbold | enforced foreign-keys are in mysql production versions now too, so that's no longer an excuse :) |
| 21:45.48 | fungus | heh, yup, I was. back in the day. |
| 21:46.30 | fungus | Now I have reformed myself, and am anti-spammer forever. |
| 21:46.50 | macnewbold | it's sounding like most people prefer the nov. meeting to be about Arrays in PHP, judging by the amount of feedback I've gotten both on and off the list |
| 21:47.22 | mindjuju | @fungus - Once you start down the dark path forever will it dominate your destiny |
| 21:49.08 | fungus | I disagree. I find great happiness shutting off people for spamming. |
| 21:49.38 | mindjuju | hey, that was Yoda who said that, you can't 1up Yoda |
| 21:51.40 | jsmith | fungus: PostgreSQL now has auto-vacuum :-) |
| 21:51.58 | jsmith | mindjuju: Will MySQL do cascading deletes and updates on foreign keys now? |
| 21:52.28 | mindjuju | you know, i'm not sure about the cascading deletes |
| 21:52.37 | mindjuju | never used the function |
| 21:56.37 | jsmith | mindjuju: I use them all the time... for example, if I take a product out of my products table, it automagically removes all the prices from the prices table, etc. |
| 22:06.53 | *** join/#uphpu RyanE_ (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 22:22.15 | jsmith | fungus: Yeah, but did you see the price? |
| 22:22.34 | mindjuju | wow, CERT just sent out an warning on some oracle patches, i guessing some what serious? |
| 22:22.35 | mindjuju | http://www.us-cert.gov/cas/techalerts/TA05-292A.html |
| 22:24.12 | macnewbold | my partner was playing around with it, and configured a basically maxed-out Quad, and it was about $24,000. for one Quad. |
| 22:24.34 | macnewbold | About $10K of that was to get it from 8GB RAM to 16GB RAM, |
| 22:24.52 | macnewbold | and another several grand were for the dual 30" displays |
| 22:25.07 | mindjuju | dual 30 displays?? |
| 22:25.10 | macnewbold | yep |
| 22:25.13 | macnewbold | LCD panels |
| 22:25.15 | macnewbold | giant ones |
| 22:25.47 | macnewbold | you can get a really really good Quad for under $10,000 though |
| 22:25.49 | mindjuju | while i have a decent size desk, i don't think i have one big enough for dual 30s |
| 22:25.57 | macnewbold | yeah, that's 5 feet of monitor... |
| 22:26.18 | macnewbold | you'd have to hire a chiropractor almost full-time if you owned that set |
| 22:26.18 | fungus | I'll get a bigger desk if I could have those displays |
| 22:26.50 | macnewbold | One 30" would be good for me... that's about as big as dual 17" LCDs |
| 22:27.05 | macnewbold | any bigger and I'd have to get more space in which to move my mouse |
| 22:27.10 | macnewbold | and longer arms |
| 22:28.06 | fungus | heh, I have 2 19" screens, and my 12" laptop right now. |
| 22:28.56 | mindjuju | i have 2 19" with a 17" for my personal music server and a sandbox on a kvm switch |
| 22:28.58 | fungus | I still need more! |
| 22:29.19 | mindjuju | a personal music server is the life, i'll never go back |
| 22:32.00 | fungus | I am just fine with my NFS mount of my music from home. |
| 22:32.57 | mindjuju | yeah, but then you have to stream, and blah blah blah, with a box that just does music, i can program on the two 19's and have winamp trippy visualizations on the 17 -- hypnotic! |
| 22:33.19 | mindjuju | i even have some DVDs here at work for some after hours viewing |
| 22:33.48 | mindjuju | the whole thing is connected to a very cheap -- but loud (and that is the important part) stereo system that pumps the techno volume |
| 22:33.51 | mindjuju | woot! |
| 22:34.36 | jsmith | Who needs a music server, when you work in an office with 200 itunes-loving freaks? |
| 22:34.56 | mindjuju | yeah, but does iTunes have visualizations? |
| 22:35.05 | Utah_Dave | I had 3 monitors hooked up for quite a while. A 22" lcd, a 19" lcd, and a 19" crt |
| 22:35.27 | mindjuju | you got me there, my 19s and 17s are all CRTs |
| 22:35.51 | Utah_Dave | I found myself getting tired running my mouse all the way across and let someone take the smaller LCD |
| 22:36.05 | Utah_Dave | I'm really happywith the 2 that I have right now |
| 22:36.47 | mindjuju | is that 3 monitors on the same box or 2 on a box and 1 for whatever? |
| 22:37.53 | Utah_Dave | 3 monitors on the same box, plus my laptop for internet next to all of them. |
| 22:38.18 | Utah_Dave | I have a dual head agp card, plus a pci video card |
| 22:38.24 | Utah_Dave | It worked great |
| 22:39.03 | mindjuju | yeah, you got me there too. i just have 2 monitors tied to a box, and then another 2 computers on the 17" tied together with a KVM |
| 22:39.21 | mindjuju | heard about 3 and 4 screen setups, but never seen one |
| 22:39.39 | Utah_Dave | Everyone thought I was crazy here when I hooked up the second monitor (ooh, you're crazy) but I hated coding without it. |
| 22:39.42 | mindjuju | know there are a few wallpaper places that cater to those l33t enough for the setup |
| 22:39.44 | Utah_Dave | Now everyone wants it |
| 22:40.06 | Utah_Dave | They've put in the budget for 150 more monitors for this next fiscal year so everyone can have dual monitors |
| 22:42.37 | macnewbold | I've got 9 1280x1024 screens on my box, but I only have enough monitor to view one at a time. But it works pretty well |
| 22:42.44 | macnewbold | it's rare that I could effectively use more than that |
| 22:43.23 | macnewbold | If I were doing a 4-screen setup, I'd probably be almost as likely to do a 2x2 as anything else |
| 22:43.27 | macnewbold | 2up 2down |
| 22:44.14 | Utah_Dave | cool |
| 22:44.58 | fungus | mindjuju, of course iTunes does visualizations, dur. |
| 22:45.15 | mindjuju | well i don't know, i'm not an itunes user |
| 22:45.25 | mindjuju | ! |
| 22:46.43 | fungus | but visualizations are a waste of screen real estate. |
| 22:47.00 | mindjuju | not if you have a 17" setup for nothing but visualizations |
| 22:47.19 | mindjuju | the sandbox server sitting on the same monitor i remote to, so rarely access it over the KVM |
| 22:47.25 | fungus | but that is 17' that could be used for more windows, more, more, more. |
| 22:47.45 | mindjuju | yeah, and that more more more = visualizations |
| 22:48.03 | mindjuju | visualization + techno + plus dark cold office = uberprogramming |
| 22:50.59 | fungus | eww, no thanks. dark cold office + non techno tunes + several terminal windows + editors, browsers, IM client, etc = ubër programming |
| 22:53.01 | fungus | ¡™£¢∞§¶•ªº–≠«` |
| 22:53.07 | fungus | doh |
| 22:53.12 | jsmith | That's exactly how I feel... |
| 23:00.59 | synic | triphop ! |
| 23:01.35 | mindjuju | triphop? is that like Ranchera-Rap |
| 23:02.39 | synic | no, that's like "Sneaker Pimps" and "Massive Attack" |
| 23:03.23 | mindjuju | where can i catch some triphop? are they on shoutcast radio? |
| 23:04.47 | synic | you've never heard "Six Underground" ? |
| 23:16.12 | mindjuju | anybody know off hand if you can do multiple counts in the same SQL query? |
| 23:18.13 | mindjuju | hmmm.. that is a subquery thing too |
| 23:18.14 | mindjuju | cool |
| 23:28.31 | *** part/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@0-2pool130-200.nas28.salt-lake-city1.ut.us.da.qwest.net) |
| 23:52.55 | macnewbold | mindjuju: you can without subqueries too |
| 23:53.19 | mindjuju | cna you? |
| 23:54.08 | macnewbold | as long as they're pertaining to the same group by, yes |
| 23:54.50 | macnewbold | like count(distinct tab1.id) as ids1, count(distinct tab2.id) as ids2 |
| 23:55.02 | macnewbold | but I may be misunderstanding what you're going fo |
| 23:55.04 | macnewbold | for |
| 23:55.55 | mindjuju | so imagine i have a table with 10 pizza delivery companies like dominos, godfather's, etc. now, i want to count how many reviews i have for each of the pizza Cos. can i do that in one query |
| 23:56.24 | macnewbold | if you're grouping by the name of the companies, yes |
| 23:56.40 | macnewbold | you'll get a row for each of them |
| 23:56.44 | macnewbold | with the count from your join |
| 23:57.48 | macnewbold | select s.pizzaco, count(reviewid) as reviews from stores as s left join reviews as r on s.pizzaco=r.pizzaco group by s.pizzaco; |