| 00:27.38 | *** join/#uphpu synic (n=synic@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 02:15.04 | *** join/#uphpu bigdog_ut (n=bigdog_u@shylonhunter.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 02:15.04 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o bigdog_ut] by ChanServ |
| 02:19.11 | bigdog_ut | whatz up all? |
| 02:30.11 | *** join/#uphpu synic (n=synic@pdpc/supporter/student/synic) |
| 04:25.45 | bigdog_ut | man it is quiet in here |
| 05:13.06 | diskotec|w | zzzzzz |
| 05:21.39 | bigdog_ut | yeah |
| 08:10.58 | *** join/#uphpu RyanE_ (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 14:01.27 | *** join/#uphpu wps (n=wade@66.237.80.85) |
| 14:01.29 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 14:21.00 | dataw0lf | port knocking implemented with just iptables : |
| 14:21.02 | dataw0lf | http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/268 |
| 14:21.03 | dataw0lf | awesome |
| 14:22.58 | mindjuju | k, i'm confused |
| 14:23.15 | mindjuju | it sounds like port knocking is like upnp |
| 14:23.23 | mindjuju | and i thought upnp for firewalls was bad |
| 14:24.51 | dataw0lf | upnp is different |
| 14:25.17 | mindjuju | oh, here is a better explination, i think |
| 14:25.18 | dataw0lf | port knocking, you have a specified number of ports that take a specified amount of packets each and open a service for a specified amount of time |
| 14:25.21 | mindjuju | http://www.portknocking.org/ |
| 14:25.32 | dataw0lf | I wasn't explaining it, I thought you'd already know what it was. |
| 14:25.36 | dataw0lf | I was showing an implementation. |
| 14:25.47 | mindjuju | i haven't hit l337ness yet |
| 14:25.58 | mindjuju | learning though |
| 14:26.02 | mindjuju | but i get it now |
| 14:26.16 | dataw0lf | well, there's an implementation with just iptables. |
| 14:26.18 | dataw0lf | it's cool. |
| 14:26.19 | dataw0lf | trust me. |
| 14:26.30 | mindjuju | send packets to the correct ports in a particular sequence and it triggers a server reaction |
| 14:26.59 | dataw0lf | correct. |
| 14:27.07 | dataw0lf | like unblocking ssh in the above example |
| 14:30.04 | dataw0lf | there's even a PHP version somewhere. |
| 14:30.07 | dataw0lf | but it's more like 'web knocking' |
| 14:30.34 | dataw0lf | yeah, http://semaphor.homeunix.org/semaphor.php?item=webknocking |
| 14:33.59 | mindjuju | out of curiosity, do you read German or did you pipe the page into babelfish? |
| 14:34.23 | mindjuju | seems like you said you spent time in Germany |
| 14:35.17 | dataw0lf | yeah, but I don't speak German. |
| 14:35.30 | dataw0lf | cept for 'eine hefeweisen bitte' |
| 14:36.54 | mindjuju | is that a request for beer? it got lost in translation |
| 14:36.55 | mindjuju | a yeast-wise ask |
| 14:37.19 | dataw0lf | hefeweisen is a popular beer in germany |
| 14:37.23 | dataw0lf | 'ne beer please' |
| 14:37.26 | dataw0lf | One* |
| 14:38.43 | dataw0lf | that's all I needed to know. |
| 14:38.53 | dataw0lf | besides, I'm already bilingual, and the german language doesn't interest me. |
| 14:39.21 | mindjuju | what other language do you speak? |
| 14:39.37 | dataw0lf | Italian |
| 14:40.25 | dataw0lf | specifically Napoletano |
| 14:41.54 | mindjuju | never heard of that dialect of italian. did you spend time in italy too? |
| 14:42.17 | dataw0lf | No, I lived with my grandmother for a while, and she speaks italian primarily. |
| 14:42.25 | dataw0lf | Napoletano is one of the more common dialects. |
| 14:43.37 | dataw0lf | it's kind of like old english somewhat. |
| 14:43.41 | dataw0lf | I can't describe it. |
| 14:44.17 | dataw0lf | But my family is from a small area of Tuscany that speaks a form of Napoletano |
| 14:44.21 | dataw0lf | which is weird of course |
| 14:44.36 | mindjuju | you mean old english in syntax or old english as the proper form of the english language? |
| 14:44.44 | dataw0lf | Napoletano is what most americans think of when they hear Italian |
| 14:44.48 | dataw0lf | more like 'classical' |
| 14:45.04 | dataw0lf | like, all operas and songs and poetry etc are sung / written in the Napoletano dialect |
| 14:45.08 | dataw0lf | it's hard to explain. |
| 14:45.25 | mindjuju | do you still have family over in italy? |
| 14:48.18 | dataw0lf | my biological father's side yes. |
| 14:49.07 | dataw0lf | me and him have a rather strange relationship. |
| 14:49.37 | dataw0lf | he's been pretty pissed for a while because my step dad adopted me. |
| 14:49.55 | mindjuju | which is the anthropologist? |
| 14:50.02 | dataw0lf | my step dad |
| 14:51.26 | dataw0lf | I feel uncomfortable calling him my step dad however. |
| 14:51.50 | mindjuju | what do you call him? |
| 14:52.53 | dataw0lf | my dad |
| 14:54.27 | *** join/#uphpu RyanE (n=ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 14:55.30 | mindjuju | yeah, i can empathize. big estrangement between my dad and I. |
| 14:59.13 | mindjuju | the funny thing is that there is so much estrangement that he recently had a son from a woman he married a few years back. He gave his new son my exact name. |
| 14:59.20 | mindjuju | he's kinda jacked up in the head |
| 15:00.10 | *** join/#uphpu osynic (n=synic@66.239.17.226.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 15:00.49 | dataw0lf | damn. |
| 15:00.51 | dataw0lf | that sucks. |
| 15:01.20 | mindjuju | it was a shocker, true, but now i laugh about it. he's jacked up something bad |
| 15:12.52 | wps | man I hate it when stuff won't load (such as flash or streaming vide) when the browser window doesn't have focus |
| 15:46.02 | *** join/#uphpu fungus (n=fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 15:57.18 | dataw0lf | wps: Huh. never had that problem. |
| 15:58.07 | wps | here, test this |
| 15:58.26 | wps | (warning, this site is awful—all flash) |
| 15:58.28 | wps | http://mediarain.com/ |
| 15:58.45 | wps | does the loading and animation slow down for you when you take focus off your browser window? |
| 15:59.30 | wps | hmm… interesting |
| 15:59.37 | wps | I just tried it in Firefox and it didn't slow at all |
| 15:59.43 | wps | ~wedgie Safari |
| 15:59.45 | jbot | ACTION hangs Safari from the flag pole by his underwear |
| 15:59.56 | mindjuju | doesn't seem to go slower for me, but i have one page element that doesn't seem to finish downloading |
| 16:00.20 | dataw0lf | wps: I'll leave the obvious Apple attack unspoken. |
| 16:00.29 | wps | thanks :) |
| 16:00.50 | wps | anyone with Konquerer that can try it? |
| 16:02.31 | dataw0lf | Yup |
| 16:02.34 | dataw0lf | one sec |
| 16:03.21 | dataw0lf | works fine. |
| 16:03.59 | wps | interesting |
| 16:04.00 | wps | thanks |
| 16:04.06 | dataw0lf | yup |
| 16:04.56 | RyanE | @wps: you could just look in the source to see why it does that... oh wait! you don't *have* Safari source. :) |
| 16:06.27 | dataw0lf | you don't have to look at the source to find the problem. |
| 16:06.38 | dataw0lf | Just look under About or whatever and find the platform. |
| 16:06.40 | dataw0lf | :D |
| 16:09.12 | RyanE | dataw0lf: I thought you were leaving the obvious Apple attack unspoken. That's why I spoke it. :) |
| 16:10.37 | *** join/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@0-1pool139-69.nas28.salt-lake-city1.ut.us.da.qwest.net) |
| 16:10.53 | dataw0lf | RyanE: Couldn't help it. |
| 16:10.58 | dataw0lf | Apple deserves as much scorn as possible. |
| 16:12.47 | *** join/#uphpu jsmith (n=jsmith@64.0.193.23) |
| 16:14.43 | jsmith | dataw0lf: For once we agree! |
| 16:15.33 | mindjuju | k, it's true they aren't really set up for tweaking, but they are effective in graphic design / video |
| 16:16.01 | mindjuju | i wouldn't go gaming or use one for a web server, but, they do have a niche |
| 16:16.08 | mindjuju | just my humble opinion |
| 16:17.29 | jsmith | mindjuju: How's Photoshop on Windows any different than Photoshop on the Mac? |
| 16:17.40 | dataw0lf | no kidding. |
| 16:17.50 | dataw0lf | except for the mac is a bright fluorescent color |
| 16:17.59 | dataw0lf | seems like it'd be distracting, really |
| 16:18.00 | dataw0lf | :) |
| 16:18.31 | dataw0lf | yeah, back in the day, Apples were good for graphical design / video editing. |
| 16:18.35 | dataw0lf | They've been surpassed. |
| 16:19.57 | jsmith | Amen! |
| 16:20.06 | jsmith | (and pass the spuds) |
| 16:38.59 | xilch|w | mmmmmmm, spuds |
| 16:40.39 | macnewbold | jsmith: thanks again for a great presentation on Saturday |
| 16:40.49 | jsmith | macnewbold: No problem. |
| 16:40.50 | macnewbold | I think I figured out a way I can perhaps use Asterisk here at work |
| 16:41.00 | jsmith | macnewbold: FWIW, I've got a couple of free books for the UPHPU meeting. |
| 16:41.03 | macnewbold | do you know anything about hunt groups for multiple phone numbers? |
| 16:41.07 | macnewbold | nice |
| 16:41.16 | jsmith | Yes. |
| 16:41.25 | macnewbold | in particular, I was wondering if I can add some VOIP numbers to a hunt group with our regular numbers |
| 16:41.37 | jsmith | Either create a queue (queues.conf and agents.conf), or do the logic yourself :-) |
| 16:41.42 | macnewbold | it's a circular group, so there'd be one normal number that would hunt to a voip |
| 16:41.46 | jsmith | Sure... |
| 16:41.53 | macnewbold | and one voip that would hunt back to a normal one |
| 16:41.58 | jsmith | Not a problem... |
| 16:42.00 | macnewbold | cool |
| 16:42.43 | macnewbold | provider for the normal lines is eschelon - (Those lines wouldn't be going through my asterisk, because the cards don't work under FreeBSD yet) |
| 16:42.54 | macnewbold | what would I tell them? |
| 16:43.08 | jsmith | Oh, you want a hunt group outside of Asterisk? |
| 16:43.11 | macnewbold | I presume the voip half I would handle myself, in my asterisk |
| 16:43.13 | macnewbold | yeah, well kinda |
| 16:43.26 | macnewbold | we've got two lines that currently hunt to each other (circular) |
| 16:43.38 | macnewbold | I'd want the 2nd one to hunt to my voip number |
| 16:43.40 | macnewbold | (s) |
| 16:44.01 | macnewbold | then the last voip number(s) would hunt back to the first normal line |
| 16:44.15 | macnewbold | so in asterisk it would look like a hunt that ends up hunting externally |
| 16:44.19 | macnewbold | and the same thing to my other provider |
| 16:44.26 | macnewbold | could that work? |
| 16:44.41 | macnewbold | if so, I can get one of the little voip boxes and tie it into our phones here, and we're golden |
| 16:44.44 | jsmith | YOu'd have to use a VoIP provider that gives you a local number, and then ask Eschelon to be nice and add an external number to the hunt group |
| 16:44.49 | macnewbold | right |
| 16:45.06 | macnewbold | if I can get a local number with a small fixed fee plus a per-minute charge, |
| 16:45.18 | jsmith | Yup. |
| 16:45.19 | macnewbold | we'd have more lines when we need them, but wouldn't have to pay through the nose for the extra capacity |
| 16:45.53 | macnewbold | btw, do they have any voip adapters that can do two analog lines? |
| 16:46.21 | macnewbold | especially if the can do the two-lines-on-the-same-cable thing, where the inner pair in the rj11 is line1, and the outer pair is line 2 |
| 16:48.37 | jsmith | macnewbold: Yes, I think there are. |
| 16:49.34 | macnewbold | cool |
| 16:49.37 | macnewbold | that would be perfect |
| 16:49.48 | macnewbold | then I won't need any cards in my asterisk server, it would just speak voip |
| 16:50.15 | jsmith | Exactly... |
| 16:50.45 | macnewbold | do you know which of the providers you mentioned would have a plan like that, w/low monthly fee and a local number, with reasonable per-minute charges? |
| 16:51.14 | dataw0lf | macnewbold: hey, can we do that server installation tomorrow? :\ I thought I'd be able to do it today but I don't think I'm going to get this server memory issue fixed early enough |
| 16:52.35 | macnewbold | yeah, I think so |
| 16:52.41 | macnewbold | same time? |
| 16:52.58 | dataw0lf | yeah |
| 16:58.50 | macnewbold | dataw0lf: that will work. |
| 17:06.30 | Utah_Dave | jsmith: I'd be interested in any recomendations for voip/local number providers, too |
| 17:08.44 | mindjuju | oops |
| 17:09.09 | jsmith | mindjuju: Which one is that :-) |
| 17:09.22 | mindjuju | hang on, give me a sec, i'm making this up as I go! |
| 17:09.31 | mindjuju | uh, err, the one in Utah, yeah! |
| 17:13.45 | mindjuju | yeah, i am, i'm bored out of my gord. i'm editing a video for my company and i'm bored |
| 17:14.24 | mindjuju | i don't really have a VOIP business |
| 17:16.28 | jsmith | macnewbold, Utah_Dave: Check out BroadVoice, Mixnetworks.com, and nufone.net |
| 17:27.35 | Utah_Dave | jsmith: thanks |
| 17:28.09 | jsmith | Utah_Dave: No problem... let me know how they work out for you, will you please? |
| 17:31.43 | macnewbold | nufone only does local in Michigan, it appears, and they've got some bad reviews out there about their customer service, among other things |
| 17:32.02 | macnewbold | broadvoice only has one plan that allows businesses, and it's $30/month |
| 17:46.15 | Utah_Dave | broadvoice also doesn't offer Utah DID's at the moment |
| 17:48.46 | macnewbold | doh |
| 17:48.48 | macnewbold | really? |
| 17:49.01 | macnewbold | jsmith: any comments about packet8? |
| 17:49.10 | macnewbold | they seem to offer business plans at $40, $20, and $10 |
| 17:50.48 | macnewbold | doh, nevermind. the $10 is a non-phone plan. |
| 17:55.45 | jsmith | macnewbold: Last I checked, they didn't offer local numbers, and wouldn't let you connect your own equipment. (You had to use their adapters) |
| 17:55.54 | jsmith | macnewbold: That was over a year ago, so maybe they've relaxed. |
| 18:11.44 | macnewbold | hm |
| 18:11.47 | macnewbold | I doubt it |
| 18:13.14 | macnewbold | hehe, mixnetworks wants $5/month (extra!) to use their softphone :) |
| 18:14.16 | macnewbold | broadvoice has a $50 disconnect fee (!) but not if you bring your own device |
| 18:35.26 | RyanE | jsmith: do you know if any of the 'unlimited' plans will give you more than one call appearance at a time? |
| 18:35.39 | RyanE | like 'up to 5' or something along those lines? |
| 18:39.25 | jsmith | RyanE: Nope. |
| 19:17.10 | macnewbold | RyanE: you can add extra lines to most of the unlmited plans at a discounted rate - like $10/line or something |
| 19:19.33 | macnewbold | http://voxilla.com/compare/compare.php?typeid=1&mode=type |
| 19:19.36 | macnewbold | that's pretty cool |
| 19:24.20 | RyanE | @macnewbold: right. I would only be hesitant in doing that because I'd like to have them available, but not generally used. |
| 19:24.41 | macnewbold | right |
| 19:24.53 | RyanE | I guess I could forward the first call through an unlimited plan, and any other used lines through pay-per-minute accounts |
| 19:25.16 | RyanE | i.e. least-cost routing |
| 19:25.16 | macnewbold | for a business, $10 for an extra line is cool |
| 19:25.16 | macnewbold | but for home, it's a bit steep |
| 19:25.16 | macnewbold | maybe they can do call waiting? |
| 19:25.16 | RyanE | I don't have a business, so that'd be frowned upon by the wife. |
| 19:25.23 | macnewbold | right |
| 19:25.24 | RyanE | I'm mostly concerned with outgoing. |
| 19:25.26 | RyanE | :) |
| 19:25.28 | macnewbold | that's what I'm working on |
| 19:25.39 | RyanE | if I'm on the phone, call waiting is fine. |
| 19:25.48 | macnewbold | voip as line3 and line4 to go with our normal line1 and line2 |
| 19:25.55 | macnewbold | won't get used much, caues the others are unlimited |
| 19:26.08 | macnewbold | but handy for L.D., and when both lines are busy (two calls or a conf. call) |
| 19:26.49 | RyanE | yeah. |
| 19:27.23 | RyanE | I'm thinking an unlimited plan + asterisk would be quite handy. I take an adapter with me, call into asterisk direct, then out on the unlimited plan to whereever. |
| 19:27.36 | RyanE | and / or the multiple cell phones, one living at home, doing the same thing. |
| 19:34.31 | macnewbold | or we get someone (maybe Jared) to run a big asterisk server for a bunch of us, with a bunch of outgoing lines w/unlimited use, and we all use them, getting only as many lines as we can usually keep busy |
| 19:34.41 | macnewbold | and aim to keep them busy as much as possible |
| 19:34.45 | macnewbold | j/k |
| 19:38.17 | RyanE | that's what a provider does. and... the contract with any other provider specifically says you can't resell them... |
| 19:39.31 | RyanE | *all* the fun stuff is disallowed by the contract... |
| 19:42.59 | macnewbold | that stinks |
| 19:43.06 | macnewbold | then you don't resell, you just share them |
| 19:50.33 | RyanE | hehe. share them, and then ask people to 'chip in' to help defray the costs... hmmm.... sounds a lot like 'reselling', eh? |
| 19:50.36 | RyanE | :) |
| 19:50.46 | macnewbold | eliminate the money part, and it doesn't |
| 19:51.05 | RyanE | how about if you form a 'coop'. sometimes you can get around that sort of thing with a coop. |
| 19:51.30 | RyanE | i.e. the coop 'owns' all the accounts, and the coop members can use the accounts, but have to pay into the coop. |
| 19:51.30 | macnewbold | yeah |
| 19:51.35 | macnewbold | right |
| 19:51.36 | Utah_Dave | sounds good to me! |
| 19:51.39 | RyanE | I guess it should really be co-op. not a Chicken coop. :) |
| 19:51.50 | macnewbold | yeah, I've got a coop already |
| 19:51.53 | macnewbold | but not a co-op |
| 19:51.55 | RyanE | you have chickens? |
| 19:51.58 | macnewbold | yep |
| 19:52.01 | macnewbold | 10 right now, |
| 19:52.15 | RyanE | a former co-worker raises about 20 a year. then he puts it up on the slaughter-cam when it's slaughtering time. |
| 19:52.23 | RyanE | for the benefit of those of us who don't live in Eagle MOuntain. |
| 19:52.24 | RyanE | :) |
| 19:54.45 | mindjuju | yum yum, give me some! |
| 19:55.03 | mindjuju | free range chickens -- i'm guessing? |
| 20:01.42 | RyanE | I dunno. I don't think they can be too free-range, as he only has a couple of acres. |
| 20:03.07 | mindjuju | really? for 20 chickens, couple acres is way huge. I've seen a dozen in a fenced area about 20x20 that had plenty to eat, but that was in Arkansas. |
| 20:03.38 | RyanE | I just meant, I don't know how 'free' it would need to be to be called 'free range'. |
| 20:03.49 | RyanE | I'm not a chicken guy. |
| 20:03.57 | RyanE | other than the eating, of course. :) |
| 20:07.57 | mindjuju | eagle mountain sounds familiar, i think it is close to where I live |
| 20:08.22 | RyanE | mindjuju: where do you live? |
| 20:08.53 | mindjuju | i live at housing development near thanksgiving point and work on the other side of the point of the mountain |
| 20:09.18 | mindjuju | i suspect, it is somewherez near utah dave, seems like he mentioned once that he lives really close |
| 20:09.19 | RyanE | eagle mountain is considerably further west. you go west of Lehi, and just keep going west. |
| 20:09.31 | RyanE | past Saratoga Springs |
| 20:09.32 | Utah_Dave | yeah, I live in pilgrim's landing |
| 20:09.46 | mindjuju | your kidding! the townhomes? |
| 20:09.48 | RyanE | is Pilgrim's Landing before Saratoga Springs? |
| 20:09.50 | RyanE | aha. |
| 20:09.56 | RyanE | nevermind |
| 20:10.23 | Utah_Dave | no, down on Newland Loop |
| 20:10.40 | RyanE | mindjuju: I'm just on the *other* end of SR-92 from you, in Highland. |
| 20:11.02 | mindjuju | sweet! we should have a LAN party one weekend! |
| 20:11.10 | Utah_Dave | definitely! |
| 20:11.19 | Utah_Dave | you live in the townhomes? |
| 20:11.23 | mindjuju | yup |
| 20:11.50 | RyanE | @wps doesn't live far from you guys, either. He's (I believe) in the houses north of Lehi Block, just on the other side of the freeway. |
| 20:11.51 | Utah_Dave | cool. |
| 20:12.05 | mindjuju | over by Cabrellas? |
| 20:12.13 | RyanE | south of Cabelas |
| 20:12.14 | wps | just south of Cabellas |
| 20:12.17 | RyanE | hehe |
| 20:12.25 | mindjuju | that's awesome! |
| 20:12.42 | RyanE | so @wps, are you in the neighborhood that's just south of the freeway, north and West of Lehi Block? |
| 20:13.04 | wps | Northeast of Lehi Block |
| 20:13.24 | wps | between the Alpine and 1200 West exits, East of the Freeway |
| 20:13.31 | RyanE | aha. I have a friend building on the last new road directly north of Lehi Block, on the west side of that road. |
| 20:14.23 | RyanE | a lot of development in that area. |
| 20:14.30 | wps | indeed |
| 20:14.37 | wps | our ward has been split four times in less than two years |
| 20:14.52 | wps | 'bout ever four-five months |
| 20:14.54 | RyanE | I have a friend who was in 3 wards in 1 year, same house. |
| 20:15.05 | mindjuju | dang! that's craziness |
| 20:15.05 | RyanE | about the same rate. |
| 20:15.16 | RyanE | moved into ward 1, split into ward 2, split into ward 3 |
| 20:15.25 | mindjuju | yeah, we just had a split not too long ago |
| 20:15.30 | Utah_Dave | I'm on my second ward in 1 year |
| 20:15.34 | RyanE | of course that's in Spanish Fork, that also went from 3 stakes to 5 in 1 split. |
| 20:15.42 | wps | funny thing is that with all the splits I am still in the ward I moved into in 2003 |
| 20:15.51 | wps | they just keep splitting off around us and we're in the center |
| 20:16.23 | RyanE | our ward was just split (well, 4 were turned into 5), but I think we'll split within a year because of a new development up in the gravel pits. |
| 20:33.36 | macnewbold | crazy, huh |
| 20:34.16 | macnewbold | most recent boundary change of my ward was over 20 years ago, when they basically undid a 2-to-3 split they had done 10-20 years prior |
| 20:39.57 | macnewbold | but when the ward is 1/4 mile wide and less than 1/2 long, it's hard to have need to split it unless it's full of high-density housing, which it isn't |
| 20:47.06 | Utah_Dave | mindjuju: which ward are you in? |
| 20:53.03 | macnewbold | (that, and I'm in SLC, not a high-growth area) |
| 20:57.34 | Utah_Dave | later, everyone. I'm going home early today!! |
| 20:58.08 | macnewbold | have fun, Utah_Dave |
| 20:58.26 | Utah_Dave | thanks! |
| 20:58.28 | *** part/#uphpu Utah_Dave (n=boucha@0-1pool139-69.nas28.salt-lake-city1.ut.us.da.qwest.net) |
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