| 00:43.59 | *** join/#uphpu RyanE_ (~ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 00:53.45 | *** join/#uphpu d510 (~example@c-67-166-116-4.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 00:53.48 | d510 | hi |
| 00:54.13 | d510 | anyone had experience using pear::db_data_objects? |
| 01:59.54 | mindjuju_ | looking for a book on GPG and encryption, anybody have any books to recommend? |
| 02:18.19 | *** join/#uphpu tierra (~tierra@c-24-10-173-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:29.46 | jmul|w | GPG?....or PGP? if GPG...what does that stand for? |
| 02:30.10 | mindjuju_ | PGP is pretty good privacy, GPG is the same thing but open source |
| 02:30.33 | jmul|w | oh ok |
| 02:30.40 | mindjuju_ | I've personally heard that GPG is a smidge faster than PGP, PGP has more encrypting algorithms |
| 02:31.12 | mindjuju_ | i need the server to run encryption from the command line and PGP is $1200 for commandline utility, GPG is FREE! |
| 02:31.15 | mindjuju_ | Woot!! |
| 02:32.00 | mindjuju_ | you can see more about it here |
| 02:32.00 | mindjuju_ | http://www.gnupg.org/ |
| 02:32.35 | mindjuju_ | how's your day going? |
| 02:33.47 | jmul|w | busy.....barely got to sit at my desk...had to actually do user support. |
| 02:33.58 | mindjuju_ | yuck |
| 02:34.28 | jmul|w | yeah...normally I get to sit here in one spot, take a few (3-4) phone calls and learn PHP. |
| 02:34.42 | mindjuju_ | dat coo |
| 02:35.01 | jmul|w | I think I've been at my desk maybe 45 minutes total now |
| 02:35.11 | mindjuju_ | mind if i ask where you work at? |
| 02:35.47 | jmul|w | san luis valley regional medical center http://www.slvrmc.org/ |
| 02:35.57 | jmul|w | btw, I did not make that crappy web page. |
| 02:36.15 | jmul|w | spelling/grammatical errors all over the place |
| 02:37.08 | mindjuju_ | i know the feeling bro, i have to apoloies for our corporate website all the time. the good news is that i am almost ready to release the new facade and over the next couple of months release rewritten server code |
| 02:37.15 | mindjuju_ | for advanced functionality / stability |
| 02:37.51 | jmul|w | thats cool |
| 02:39.10 | mindjuju_ | well, i'm flying solo tonight, the wife is at the inlaws until tomorrow |
| 02:39.12 | jmul|w | I have no control over the website....they paid some enormous stupid amount of money for some lady that learned html to put ours up. i think she knew more about graphics than anything else...from what I heard anyway |
| 02:39.39 | mindjuju_ | you ought to tell 'em you'll redo it for them |
| 02:39.45 | jmul|w | I heard it was close to 20k |
| 02:39.45 | mindjuju_ | add in some snazzy functionality |
| 02:39.49 | mindjuju_ | whaaa!!! |
| 02:39.58 | jmul|w | our new I.T. director has plans for it |
| 02:40.04 | mindjuju_ | tell 'em i'll up date it! i'll charge 'em half! |
| 02:40.13 | mindjuju_ | ;) |
| 02:40.17 | jmul|w | hehe |
| 02:41.04 | mindjuju_ | so, since the wife is gone, (actually second day that she's been out) i've pulled out all my kung fu movies and watching them at night. Have you ever seen Zu Warriors from Mystic Mountain? |
| 02:41.27 | jmul|w | the director hasn't really shared his plans with anyone yet. I hope he doesn't hire out cause there is 1 of us that knows php pretty good, I'm learning it and one guy that knows some Perl. |
| 02:41.50 | jmul|w | lol |
| 02:41.56 | jmul|w | kung fu movies eh |
| 02:42.07 | mindjuju_ | PHP is really easy. you should shoot for it, we'd help out |
| 02:42.11 | jmul|w | those are the kind I watch when my wife is out as well. |
| 02:42.17 | mindjuju_ | yeah, love kung fu movies |
| 02:42.37 | mindjuju_ | the crazier, the better |
| 02:42.52 | mindjuju_ | i love seeing people flying around on wires and all that stuff |
| 02:43.14 | jmul|w | well... I don't really watch kung fu movies and no I haven't heard of the one you mentioned. I do love that movie Shaolin Soccer....own it. wife rolled her eyes when I put it in the shopping cart at wal-mart |
| 02:43.48 | mindjuju_ | yup, they have no understanding for it. Sure, they love Costner in this or What's his face in that, the sappier the better for them |
| 02:43.59 | jmul|w | that goalie kills me....he looks just like Bruce Lee....well...almost like him |
| 02:44.15 | mindjuju_ | funny you mention that movie, i was going to watch it tonight |
| 02:44.26 | mindjuju_ | somehow i missed it when it came out, but plan to correct that oversight tonight |
| 02:44.40 | jmul|w | do you own it? |
| 02:44.44 | jmul|w | or is it a rental? |
| 02:44.48 | mindjuju_ | nah, firend let me borrow it |
| 02:44.53 | mindjuju_ | he got the hong kong version |
| 02:44.58 | jmul|w | oh man...you'll be buying it....I think |
| 02:44.58 | mindjuju_ | so i have to do subtitles |
| 02:45.31 | jmul|w | yeah...i downloaded it about 3 or so years ago...then bought it....has the english dub |
| 02:45.45 | mindjuju_ | my chinese isn't as good as it used to be, plus, they actually speak Cantonese in HK so i could only understand a little at my best |
| 02:45.59 | jmul|w | thats cool |
| 02:46.10 | jmul|w | do you like eastwood movies? |
| 02:46.17 | mindjuju_ | love 'em |
| 02:46.33 | mindjuju_ | the ending of Good, Bad, Ugly is best ending of all cinema |
| 02:46.44 | jmul|w | me too. my wife quickly changes the channel if she see's him...hoping I didn't see him to say "turn it back" |
| 02:46.44 | mindjuju_ | with the 3 way shootout? Suspense! |
| 02:51.07 | jmul|w | I like that (Good Bad Ugly) movie and that part as well. As far as the best eastwood western .....it's a toss up, Josey Wales or Pale Rider. Unforgiven was a little too "raw" for my taste. |
| 02:51.27 | mindjuju_ | never saw unforgiven |
| 02:51.42 | mindjuju_ | josey wales and pale rider, haven't seen in super long time |
| 03:02.21 | jmul|w | well... in Shaolin Soccer, those two chicks caught me off guard....I was like "whoa! what the heck?" You'll see them when you get to that part....kinda nasty. |
| 03:03.04 | mindjuju_ | thanks for the heads up |
| 03:03.19 | jmul|w | if i lived closer I'd let you borrow my dvd's with the english dub |
| 03:03.33 | mindjuju_ | nah, i don't mind subtitles |
| 03:03.45 | jmul|w | nasty as in gross....not nasty= x-rated |
| 03:04.23 | mindjuju_ | oh! |
| 03:05.56 | *** part/#uphpu jsmith (~jsmith@smithfam.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 03:20.00 | jmul|w | mindjuju: my guess is that you've already seen these....if not.... here you go.... http://dudu.dyn.2-h.org/nist/gpg-enigmail-howto.php |
| 03:20.09 | jmul|w | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:20.15 | jmul|w | http://codesorcery.net/mutt/mutt-gnupg-howto |
| 03:21.59 | jmul|w | I learn something new every day in here. I thought all along pgp was open source and I didn't know gpg existed. never really looked up pgp or had a need for it. |
| 03:22.55 | mindjuju_ | i need to hold credit card numbers for a limited time. I'm going to use gpg to secure it so that it it can be easily transfered |
| 03:23.09 | mindjuju_ | then only 3 other people other than myself will be able to decrypt |
| 03:24.00 | jmul|w | ah ok. |
| 03:40.08 | *** join/#uphpu wps (~wade@65.73.113.199) |
| 03:40.11 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 03:46.40 | jmul|w | hi wps |
| 03:46.46 | wps | yo |
| 03:56.53 | *** join/#uphpu wps (~wade@65.73.113.199) |
| 03:56.56 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 04:34.10 | *** join/#uphpu jmul (~virc@12.125.156.114) |
| 04:52.24 | dataw0lf- | damn |
| 04:52.27 | dataw0lf- | sorry macnewbold |
| 04:52.36 | dataw0lf- | I got called into work. |
| 04:55.41 | mindjuju_ | sup dataw0lf |
| 05:00.48 | mindjuju_ | 'nite all |
| 05:15.18 | dataw0lf- | sup mindjuju_ |
| 05:15.19 | dataw0lf- | g'night |
| 05:37.17 | *** join/#uphpu bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@shylonhunter.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 05:37.17 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o bigdog_ut] by ChanServ |
| 05:39.02 | bigdog_ut | evening all |
| 05:41.34 | dataw0lf- | evenin |
| 05:41.42 | dataw0lf- | I'd talk more, but I got a chickie here, woot woot. |
| 08:33.55 | *** join/#uphpu jbot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 08:33.55 | *** topic/#uphpu is Next meeting: BBQ, Friday Aug. 12, 7pm | Utah PHP User Group | http://www.uphpu.org |
| 10:29.45 | *** join/#uphpu mindjuju (~mindjuju@216.20.238.225) |
| 11:50.51 | *** join/#uphpu RyanE_ (~ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 13:31.42 | *** join/#uphpu bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@shylonhunter.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 13:31.42 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o bigdog_ut] by ChanServ |
| 13:54.42 | macnewbold | dataw0lf: no biggie, I'll get over it |
| 13:54.46 | macnewbold | enjoy DefCon! |
| 14:42.22 | *** join/#uphpu el_gaucho (~bigdog_ut@shylonhunter.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 14:42.22 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o el_gaucho] by ChanServ |
| 14:47.17 | macnewbold | any IRC gurus in here? |
| 14:47.39 | macnewbold | I opened a new channel, then overnight my client dropped, which lost my op privs, and now it won't let me op myself any mroe |
| 14:47.43 | macnewbold | s/mroe/more |
| 14:47.50 | dataw0lf | sup |
| 14:47.54 | dataw0lf | sorry about the other day dude |
| 14:48.01 | dataw0lf | emergencies, and I couldn't find your number. |
| 14:48.10 | dataw0lf | and did you register the channel with chanserv |
| 14:48.12 | dataw0lf | ? |
| 14:48.16 | macnewbold | no prob |
| 14:48.22 | macnewbold | not registered with ChanServ yet |
| 14:48.31 | macnewbold | that's why I need to get op back :) |
| 14:48.33 | dataw0lf | register it with chanserv and you'll be able to op yourself |
| 14:48.45 | macnewbold | ChanServ won't let me register it cause I'm not an op :) |
| 14:49.00 | dataw0lf | won't be able to op yourself unless you have chanserv |
| 14:49.04 | dataw0lf | I'd ask a IRC op |
| 14:49.08 | *** join/#uphpu gthornock (~gthornock@translate.sento.com) |
| 14:49.09 | macnewbold | in #freenode? |
| 14:49.14 | dataw0lf | yeah. |
| 14:49.26 | macnewbold | k, thx |
| 14:51.18 | el_gaucho | macnewbold, anyone else in the channel? |
| 14:53.23 | macnewbold | yep |
| 14:53.25 | macnewbold | nobody's op though |
| 14:53.51 | el_gaucho | you can get ops if everyone logs out of the channel and you log back in...first one gets ops |
| 14:54.01 | macnewbold | and I just found out I don't have / can't seem to get voice in #freenode |
| 14:54.20 | macnewbold | yeah, that would work, but not an option, cause some of the people are asleep |
| 14:54.26 | el_gaucho | they give voice when they want too...it took me like 3 days to get voice |
| 14:54.45 | macnewbold | wow |
| 14:54.54 | macnewbold | the faq says they try to voice everyone who walks in |
| 14:55.05 | el_gaucho | lol...sometimes happens |
| 14:57.35 | el_gaucho | i had to have them reset the password for the channel |
| 15:03.45 | dataw0lf | macnewbold: it's acceptable to priv various IRC ops. |
| 15:27.41 | *** join/#uphpu fungus (~fungus@firebat.aros.net) |
| 15:28.51 | *** join/#uphpu wps (~wade@65.73.113.199) |
| 15:28.55 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 15:29.05 | wps | what's the email width standard? |
| 15:29.10 | wps | 75 chars? 80? |
| 15:29.31 | el_gaucho | depends i have seen some at 76 and 82 |
| 15:34.16 | *** join/#uphpu tierra (~tierra@c-24-10-173-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 15:35.13 | el_gaucho | but i am sure there is an rfc out there on it |
| 15:36.10 | gthornock | RFC 1855 suggests 65 chars. |
| 15:36.29 | wps | gthornock |
| 15:36.32 | wps | you have a URL? |
| 15:36.40 | wps | I am not sure where I would find that |
| 15:37.50 | gthornock | http://mailformat.dan.info/body/linelength.html, ftp://ftp.rfc-editor.org/in-notes/rfc1855.txt |
| 15:40.42 | gthornock | On the other hand, it looks like 822/2822 set the "should" limit at 78, and the absolute limit at 998. (Also mentioned in that first URL.) |
| 15:41.16 | wps | I have an employer generating HTML email and I am trying to get them to reduce the width |
| 15:41.22 | wps | they have it at 600 px |
| 15:41.23 | wps | ug |
| 15:42.00 | wps | I would love to talk them out of HTML completely, but that's not an option, so I am at least trying to get them to 400 px or so |
| 15:42.18 | wps | (so that people don't have a horizontal scroll bar) |
| 15:42.58 | fungus | The reasons for limiting email to 78 chars do not apply when sending HTML. |
| 15:43.53 | wps | right, but 400px is close to 80 chars of screen width |
| 15:44.41 | fungus | If you have to send HTML email please provide a plain text alternative. |
| 15:46.13 | fungus | As far a width, I think most people use three paned mail readers, and would have limited viewing space. I am guessing 600px might be ok though. |
| 15:49.41 | wps | jbot, get everyone's attention please |
| 15:50.16 | wps | jbot, are you awake? |
| 15:50.26 | wps | jbot, wake up! |
| 15:50.26 | jbot | up!: GOOD MORNING!!! |
| 15:50.49 | wps | jbot, can you get everyone's attention, please? I have an announcement |
| 15:51.23 | wps | Steer clear of Panda Express! |
| 15:51.48 | wps | but alas, he won't be going back |
| 15:52.47 | dataw0lf | :\ |
| 15:52.52 | wps | ooooooooo |
| 15:52.55 | wps | the pain |
| 15:52.59 | dataw0lf | you alright dude? |
| 15:53.10 | dataw0lf | if you have salmonella you should go to the hospital. |
| 15:53.31 | wps | no man… I'm really sick |
| 15:53.57 | dataw0lf | dude you should go to the hospital asap. |
| 15:54.07 | wps | I might… we're monitoring me |
| 15:54.14 | dataw0lf | food poisoning isn't something to screw around with. |
| 15:54.16 | dataw0lf | Alright. |
| 15:54.18 | dataw0lf | Hope you feel better. |
| 15:54.40 | wps | my wife works at a doctor's clinic and has been talking to a doctor and he thinks I'll be okay with some meds we're going to pick up |
| 15:54.47 | dataw0lf | macnewbold: help me with some arguments for C as a first language, I've almost exhausted all of mine own. |
| 15:54.53 | dataw0lf | wps: ah, cool. |
| 15:55.07 | wps | but, dang, I got some bad voodoo in me |
| 15:56.08 | gthornock | Which Panda Express location was that? |
| 15:57.46 | wps | in Fashion Place mall |
| 15:58.26 | wps | :( |
| 16:08.05 | macnewbold | C as a first language? |
| 16:08.23 | macnewbold | for starters, the concepts you learn there are in a very pure form, and apply to almost every other language you'll work with |
| 16:08.43 | macnewbold | you can see enough of the low-level workings to be able to understand the basics of "not being dumb" in terms of performance |
| 16:09.03 | macnewbold | all the good stuff you need to learn doesn't get bogged down by all the OOP |
| 16:09.12 | macnewbold | hehe, or should I say (p)OOP |
| 16:13.00 | jmul | wps: you going to try and talk to a manager at that Panda Express or maybe the local health department? heh |
| 16:13.16 | wps | hadn't thought of it |
| 16:13.18 | wps | guess I should |
| 16:13.22 | wps | …let them know |
| 16:13.40 | jmul | something needs to happen...I wonder how many other people are feeling the same way you are now. |
| 16:14.21 | jmul | it'd suck if some kid was all curled up in a ball because he/she was in pain. |
| 16:18.56 | el_gaucho | wps, call the health dept and report it...they will send someone there |
| 16:19.07 | wps | k |
| 16:21.58 | el_gaucho | dataw0lf, you can also say that c is the foundation for most languages |
| 16:22.38 | el_gaucho | my strongest argument is that you will learn more about hardware and systems then any other language |
| 16:22.48 | el_gaucho | crap look at pointers and memory management |
| 16:22.53 | dataw0lf | el_gaucho / macnewbold: yeah, I've made those arguments already. |
| 16:23.14 | el_gaucho | what is their argument? |
| 16:24.54 | dataw0lf | 1) it's error prone and difficult 2) the fundamentals of programming can be learned in any language |
| 16:25.19 | macnewbold | C is error prone and difficult? or are you talking about Java? |
| 16:25.23 | dataw0lf | he of course says that knowledge of lower level functionality (mem. management, etc) is not applicable to today's programmer. |
| 16:25.39 | macnewbold | re #2: They _can_ be, but some are _much_ better to learn it in than others |
| 16:25.40 | dataw0lf | I've got him on the run, I was just seeing what you guys had to offer. |
| 16:25.45 | macnewbold | what language is he aruging for? |
| 16:26.02 | mindjuju | quick question -- what language does he want to learn instead of C ? |
| 16:26.28 | jmul|w | "it's" error prone? I thought computers did what they were told ... this person must be error prone |
| 16:26.34 | macnewbold | dataw0lf: you may not need to manually manage your memory, but you _must_ know how to manage your memory use, or you'll write _dog_slow_ code that hogs so much RAM that you can't run it on a normal computer |
| 16:27.43 | dataw0lf | macnewbold / mindjuju: that's why he's hard to pin down, he's not arguing _for_ any language, just against C. |
| 16:27.50 | dataw0lf | http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=50687 |
| 16:28.46 | dataw0lf | The second page is when we start getting into it. |
| 16:29.57 | dataw0lf | This is like Fight Night at ubuntuforums, our inevitable battle has been foreseen by many. |
| 16:30.47 | dataw0lf | aw shoot, he just replied. |
| 16:34.37 | macnewbold | make him pick a language, and it will be at least as easy to knock down as C |
| 16:34.47 | macnewbold | C is better than most, and probably equal to some |
| 16:38.13 | mindjuju | you've got a strong point d dub in your comments from 10:44a this morn about the levels of abstraction and how removed today's programmers are from the code behind the sceen |
| 16:41.02 | *** join/#uphpu scott (scott@crackaddict.com) |
| 16:41.18 | mindjuju | ugh, i hate his stance at 10:55a about learning to fill a job requirement - that is shortsited, sadly the reason most people go to college / univeresities these days... they go to get a degree / job , they don't go to learn how to learn |
| 16:41.33 | scott | is there a way to have php give me detailed output of what happens when I run mail() ? |
| 16:42.48 | mindjuju | are you sending a bunch of email to a whole list of people? |
| 16:42.56 | mindjuju | like in a loop? |
| 16:43.42 | scott | I'm going to be. right now I'm just testing sending emails. I sent emails to about 5 of my addresses and only 1 arrived correctly |
| 16:55.38 | macnewbold | did the others bounce? or are they just "not there yet"? |
| 16:56.20 | mindjuju | officially, there doesn't seem to be anything built in - i usually build a couple of variables to catch what is happening if something doesn't seem to be working right |
| 16:57.08 | el_gaucho | scott, check your mail logs |
| 16:57.32 | el_gaucho | scott, turn on errors in php |
| 16:58.04 | mindjuju | d dub, you still here? |
| 17:03.38 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: yessir. |
| 17:04.06 | mindjuju | just read your last statements, v strong |
| 17:04.26 | dataw0lf | this guy is bouncing around like a boxer, I tried to pin him down, didn't work. Now I just have to take specific arguments and focus on them, that's the only way I shall win. |
| 17:06.53 | *** join/#uphpu RyanE_ (~ryan@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 17:07.11 | scott | macnewbold: they aren't coming back to the from address. they're not arriving, maybe big email hosts don't accept emails from just any server? |
| 17:08.22 | mindjuju | hmmm... he replied |
| 17:08.31 | jmul|w | is he ever going to say what language is best to start out with? |
| 17:09.03 | mindjuju | at this point, he's not even listening to your arguements |
| 17:09.21 | mindjuju | he's bliinded - hate it when this happens - |
| 17:09.26 | mindjuju | look at this arguement |
| 17:09.26 | mindjuju | But if I, as the programmer don't have to deal with it, then it isn't really relevant is it? Because it's solidly out of my control. |
| 17:10.09 | mindjuju | he's not even understood your point that while you can't manage memory on the granular level, you will know that you should close your dbase connections, etc because that is good memory management |
| 17:11.43 | dataw0lf | Haha, he screwed up. |
| 17:11.44 | dataw0lf | He cursed. |
| 17:11.50 | dataw0lf | And now I can mod him to oblivion. |
| 17:11.51 | dataw0lf | I win./ |
| 17:14.34 | *** join/#uphpu toxs (~toxs@166.70.209.69) |
| 17:16.55 | macnewbold | scott: so you're getting no bounces, and they're not going through. Like bigdog_ut / el_gaucho said, check your mail logs, and they'll tell you what happened with them. |
| 17:17.05 | mindjuju | this guy is funny. he wants to start teaching nuclear physics to kids who haven't taken physics yet on the grounds that they aren't going to use it anyways |
| 17:17.16 | macnewbold | most places will accept email that is destined from them from almost anywhere, as long as it isn't on a spam blacklist |
| 17:18.25 | jmul|w | I wonder if this is the same guy... askutt@wnec.edu http://wiki.arslinux.com/User:LordHunter317 |
| 17:20.47 | mindjuju | ha! prolly... |
| 17:23.15 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: my response has been posted. |
| 17:23.24 | mindjuju | yup, reading it now |
| 17:24.38 | mindjuju | i love that mentality, let's just squeeze out programmers out as quickly as possible |
| 17:24.55 | mindjuju | heck, with that reason, why send prelaw students to college, why not just law school? |
| 17:25.07 | mindjuju | why even bother with the Magna Carta, nobody lives by it anyways |
| 17:26.40 | mindjuju | it's that level of mentality that gives rise to so many levels of abstraction which will ultimately present problems |
| 17:30.03 | mindjuju | heck, a couple of months ago i had to use 10 windows computers to grep through millions of text files looking for particular strings. in the need to have ever faster response time, I did it all through DOS batch files, Sysinternal's PSEXEC and a flatfile to capture results - a heck of a lot faster then logging in and using some GUI GREP to try to find results |
| 17:34.13 | jmul|w | what language is this.... http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/sesame/openrdf/src/org/openrdf/sesame/sailimpl/rdbms/RdfSource.java?rev=1.44 |
| 17:34.18 | jmul|w | java? |
| 17:34.33 | jmul|w | adam skutts name is listed as an author |
| 17:39.30 | *** join/#uphpu kryp71k|w_ (~kryp71k@67.41.175.169) |
| 17:42.04 | *** join/#uphpu kryp71k|w_ (~kryp71k@67.41.175.169) |
| 17:42.54 | mindjuju | he's trying to pull rank by mentioning he's an EE -- hilarious, i love this part - Frequently, I (who designed the thing) don't even need to understand or worry about all the actual physics behind the device's operation. |
| 17:43.00 | mindjuju | and there in lies the problem |
| 17:43.12 | mindjuju | he doesn't want to know why it works or doesn't |
| 17:43.43 | mindjuju | i'd take jmu' s stance, ask him to propose a language that fits his criteria |
| 17:46.58 | dataw0lf | nah, I'm done. Just posted my second to last response. |
| 17:47.04 | mindjuju | here is a conversation closer if you want one - people who think like he does are people whose job are being outsourced overseas as we speak. |
| 17:47.04 | dataw0lf | My last one will be to tie everything up. |
| 17:47.34 | macnewbold | mindjuju's right: make him pick an language, and it will be easy to show why C works better, or at least as well |
| 17:47.43 | macnewbold | but ending it is probably best :) |
| 17:47.56 | mindjuju | i love this "I'm more angry about your childish treatment of my person than anything else." |
| 17:48.03 | mindjuju | does he think he works at MIT? |
| 17:48.05 | macnewbold | if he really wants to pull rank, tell him you're the moderator, and he's officially been moderated |
| 17:48.19 | mindjuju | he works at west new england college! |
| 17:48.32 | macnewbold | just tell him if he didn't act childish, he wouldn't get childish treatment |
| 17:48.49 | macnewbold | just cause he likes to use big words and archaic syntax doesn't mean he's not being childish |
| 17:49.21 | jmul|w | west new england college....MIT....same thing =P |
| 17:50.03 | jmul|w | i've been looking up his posts on about 4 different boards now....I'm guessing his language of choice now is Java. |
| 17:50.21 | mindjuju | nothin' like a good brawl to get the blood flowin |
| 17:51.22 | mindjuju | so whats the scoop with this chiX0r you found dataw0lf |
| 17:52.05 | dataw0lf | she's a woman. |
| 17:52.08 | dataw0lf | good nuff for me |
| 18:05.15 | *** join/#uphpu mindjuju_ (~mindjuju@216.20.238.225) |
| 18:20.21 | dataw0lf | mindjuju_: hehe |
| 18:20.25 | dataw0lf | check out my last reply. |
| 18:21.55 | mindjuju_ | that's awesome ! |
| 18:22.45 | dataw0lf | :d |
| 18:24.38 | macnewbold | nice, dataw0lf |
| 18:25.08 | dataw0lf | dude, I'm sure he's steaming about it. |
| 18:25.25 | macnewbold | yeah, well let him steam. |
| 18:25.28 | macnewbold | he earned it |
| 18:25.34 | dataw0lf | true true. |
| 18:25.43 | dataw0lf | ohp, he's replying. |
| 18:25.59 | RyanE | so where is the archive of the boss / mindjuju / dataw0lf email volley? :) |
| 18:27.02 | dataw0lf | RyanE: eh? |
| 18:27.53 | RyanE | dataw0lf: you guys are referring to the emails going back and forth, I was wondering if they were public... |
| 18:28.14 | mindjuju_ | ryan, they are posts here |
| 18:28.14 | mindjuju_ | http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=50687&page=3&pp=10 |
| 18:28.17 | RyanE | aha |
| 18:28.25 | RyanE | must've missed that part |
| 18:28.30 | mindjuju_ | no worries |
| 18:33.46 | dataw0lf | he must be posting one helluva message, he's been replying forevah |
| 18:33.54 | dataw0lf | there it is |
| 18:34.53 | dataw0lf | oh, jeez, he had to make the totalitarian argument. |
| 18:34.57 | dataw0lf | too bad I'm not replying anymore. |
| 18:36.19 | macnewbold | makes you want to just slap him around until it draws lots of blood... |
| 18:52.24 | *** join/#uphpu jbot (ibot@apt.bot.TimRiker.active.supporter.pdpc) |
| 18:52.24 | *** topic/#uphpu is Next meeting: BBQ, Friday Aug. 12, 7pm | Utah PHP User Group | http://www.uphpu.org |
| 19:34.42 | jmul|w | ~dhit LordHunter317 |
| 19:34.42 | jbot | ACTION manages to land Gentoo Install Time on LordHunter317, freezing him for days |
| 19:35.12 | jmul|w | finally he's frozen |
| 19:44.34 | fungus | http://www.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/07/18/1626241 |
| 19:49.26 | mindjuju_ | so quick question for the masses to see if i can get consensus. I'm updating some eCom capabilities on a website. I don't want to hold CCs any longer than I have to. I'm thinking about storing it in a database after processing it through GPG. |
| 19:49.32 | mindjuju_ | is that what ya'll would do? |
| 19:50.09 | mindjuju_ | and have the key to decrypt in the billing office |
| 19:52.58 | el_gaucho | you could do that with some rsa keys and subkeys |
| 19:53.44 | gthornock | Given the option, I'd rather not store the CC at all, but if I had to have it, then yes, GPG would be a good way to go. |
| 19:54.27 | mindjuju_ | looking up RSA keys. is that similar to GPG and if so, do you know if it is possible to do off the command line? |
| 19:55.14 | el_gaucho | yes gpg creates rsa and dsa keys |
| 19:55.14 | *** join/#uphpu tierra (~tierra@dsl093-225-126.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 19:55.37 | el_gaucho | i would suggest rsa 4096 keys |
| 19:55.54 | el_gaucho | and you better have the sec keys secure as a mofo...or else you are reliable |
| 19:56.32 | gthornock | s/reliable/liable/g |
| 19:56.56 | el_gaucho | lol |
| 19:57.03 | el_gaucho | yes, ^5 gthornock |
| 19:57.15 | gthornock | You could probably also do something with OpenSSL or gnutls. PHP does have a set of OpenSSL functionality available; I'm not sure about gnutls. |
| 19:57.26 | macnewbold | does it let you have passphrases on your keys? |
| 19:57.59 | el_gaucho | openssl does...however, i suggest doing gpg |
| 20:00.35 | *** join/#uphpu Rajah (~hemptasia@208.177.141.226.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 20:00.54 | macnewbold | if you can't have a passphrase, then how are you supposed to keep your key secure? |
| 20:01.31 | gthornock | GPG also allows passphrases on private keys. |
| 20:03.47 | macnewbold | oh, good |
| 20:07.21 | el_gaucho | mindjuju_, you could shell out and encrypt the data with gpg public key and store it in the db, then the billing dept would access it via the private key (using passphrase) |
| 20:08.27 | dataw0lf | what're you talking about? |
| 20:08.41 | el_gaucho | mindjuju_, do they use windows at your work?...the billing dept? |
| 20:08.42 | mindjuju_ | that's what I was thinking where the billing department would pull the GPG encoded string through the internet encoded, then have a seperate box here in office to manage the decryption |
| 20:08.48 | mindjuju_ | windows, yes |
| 20:09.28 | mindjuju_ | talking about "safely" storing CCs |
| 20:09.34 | dataw0lf | Ah. |
| 20:09.37 | dataw0lf | don't store em at all? |
| 20:10.02 | mindjuju_ | i wish, they've argued we need to keep 'em 90 days so i researched and came up with GPG as solution |
| 20:10.10 | *** join/#uphpu trogdorr (~ksnyder@12.174.39.194) |
| 20:10.41 | dataw0lf | that's about the best you're going to get. |
| 20:10.41 | el_gaucho | use gpg to create the public keys...encrypt the data, store in db...and decrpyt on client system |
| 20:10.52 | el_gaucho | however, i would not do decryption on the server |
| 20:10.53 | dataw0lf | better use the highest key possible though ;) |
| 20:10.58 | el_gaucho | let them do it locally |
| 20:11.01 | el_gaucho | when they need it |
| 20:11.10 | dataw0lf | el_gaucho: not a bad idea. |
| 20:11.19 | el_gaucho | there are client apps that decrpyt it locally...that is the best way |
| 20:11.42 | el_gaucho | i would go as far as doing subkeys with different passphrases and give each person their own |
| 20:12.07 | el_gaucho | but that is me |
| 20:12.20 | mindjuju_ | so i just want to make sure I understand. i make the key in the billing office, give the server the public key and have it encode using the public key |
| 20:12.28 | mindjuju_ | the billing key has the private side, right |
| 20:12.41 | el_gaucho | yeah |
| 20:13.02 | mindjuju_ | now the key is a passphrase of at least 7 "words" or more |
| 20:13.03 | el_gaucho | but the kicker is that these boxes need to be "secure" |
| 20:13.18 | el_gaucho | it can be anything really...but it should be long |
| 20:13.42 | el_gaucho | and the problem with that is that people will want to write it down on paper...that is a holy fear |
| 20:14.28 | mindjuju_ | yeah, i was thinking of going to up on high and having the CEO make an edict saying "thou shalt not write down the password", luckily only a few people need to know |
| 20:14.56 | el_gaucho | this is one policy that would need to be made and followed |
| 20:15.09 | el_gaucho | the liability is paramount |
| 20:15.54 | el_gaucho | ^5 gthornock |
| 20:16.20 | mindjuju_ | k, so question about RSA 4096 , 4096 is the encryption strength? |
| 20:16.34 | el_gaucho | size, yeah |
| 20:16.39 | dataw0lf | el_gaucho: gthornock doesn't want a ^5, foo |
| 20:16.46 | dataw0lf | his hands are busy. |
| 20:16.51 | el_gaucho | slap gthornock |
| 20:17.11 | gthornock | ::confused:: what's a ^5 |
| 20:17.20 | dataw0lf | ^ == high |
| 20:17.22 | dataw0lf | 5 == five |
| 20:17.30 | gthornock | OH. Ok. |
| 20:17.36 | el_gaucho | ^5 == high five |
| 20:17.51 | dataw0lf | there are alternatives I've come up with, as well. |
| 20:21.14 | el_gaucho | mindjuju_, did that help out? |
| 20:26.08 | mindjuju_ | yup, i researched a ton but makes me feel better to know i'm on the right track |
| 20:29.58 | el_gaucho | cool |
| 20:30.18 | el_gaucho | this is actaully similar to a solution i am working on for a customer |
| 20:30.49 | el_gaucho | we are encrpting saved data to files and then moving them between servers |
| 20:31.55 | el_gaucho | mindjuju_, one thing to remember is that if you want to do encryption with rsa keys you need to have a subkey for encrypting |
| 20:32.09 | el_gaucho | im not sure if dsa does full encryption |
| 20:32.25 | el_gaucho | meaning full file encryption |
| 20:32.55 | el_gaucho | i think that is part of the output when you generate your rsa keys...that information is relay |
| 20:33.39 | el_gaucho | mindjuju_, also if you want to test your keys out let me know i have a couple pubs that you can encrypt to me and we can test it out |
| 20:57.38 | el_gaucho | dataw0lf, where you at? |
| 20:57.50 | dataw0lf | el_gaucho: i'm here. |
| 20:58.11 | el_gaucho | what you got going on? |
| 20:59.01 | dataw0lf | just working |
| 20:59.08 | el_gaucho | muziK? |
| 21:00.09 | dataw0lf | oh, I'm listening to a advance Metric album I got my hands on |
| 21:05.06 | mindjuju_ | bigdog - your always listening to Pantera |
| 21:05.16 | el_gaucho | dataw0lf, educate the man |
| 21:05.32 | mindjuju_ | you want me to send ya some techno? |
| 21:05.46 | mindjuju_ | i have some psychedlic breaks by Morlack |
| 21:05.50 | mindjuju_ | pretty good stuff |
| 21:06.30 | mindjuju_ | sad sad |
| 21:06.36 | dataw0lf | go give somebody a light show. |
| 21:06.37 | mindjuju_ | your wimpy hits have no affect on me |
| 21:06.52 | dataw0lf | that has nothing to do with how hard I'm hitting you. |
| 21:06.56 | dataw0lf | it's the drugs you're on. |
| 21:06.59 | dataw0lf | you raver. |
| 21:07.52 | el_gaucho | seether rocks |
| 21:08.30 | mindjuju_ | you'll listen to seether but won't listen to yngwie malmsteen? |
| 21:08.37 | el_gaucho | hell no |
| 21:08.43 | el_gaucho | dataw0lf, educate the man |
| 21:09.24 | *** join/#uphpu tierra (~tierra@dsl093-225-126.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 21:09.54 | el_gaucho | my favorite |
| 21:10.43 | el_gaucho | mindjuju_, you need some new musik |
| 21:10.44 | trogdorr | ooh seether--good idea |
| 21:10.56 | dataw0lf | yngwie.. mamsteen??? |
| 21:11.03 | mindjuju_ | new? I just got a new batch of techno! |
| 21:11.15 | mindjuju_ | whaaa!!! he's one of the best! |
| 21:11.18 | el_gaucho | oh...just put that in the trash and walk way |
| 21:11.20 | mindjuju_ | come on! |
| 21:11.23 | el_gaucho | put down the techno |
| 21:11.25 | el_gaucho | put down the techno |
| 21:11.30 | dataw0lf | THROW IT IN THE TRASH |
| 21:11.32 | dataw0lf | THROW IT IN THE TRASH |
| 21:11.35 | el_gaucho | walk away slowly...ares up |
| 21:12.29 | mindjuju_ | you know, that mexican ranchera stuff will kill ya! |
| 21:12.35 | mindjuju_ | drives me crazy |
| 21:12.37 | macnewbold | ya know, the kind with accordions and stuff |
| 21:13.06 | dataw0lf | better than techno |
| 21:13.12 | mindjuju_ | where's optikal when I need 'm |
| 21:13.34 | mindjuju_ | ~wiseguy el_gaucho |
| 21:13.34 | jbot | ACTION runs up to el_gaucho and pokes el_gaucho in the eyes! |
| 21:13.34 | dataw0lf | probably giving someone a light show. |
| 21:13.47 | mindjuju_ | ~curse d dub |
| 21:13.47 | jbot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, d dub ! |
| 21:14.01 | el_gaucho | i like the gaucho music |
| 21:14.02 | mindjuju_ | ~melvin macnewbold |
| 21:14.02 | jbot | ACTION pulls macnewbold underwear up to the ceiling...and smiles |
| 21:14.14 | dataw0lf | this is as close as I'll come to your world mindjuju_ |
| 21:14.46 | mindjuju_ | ya'll just need to give it a chance |
| 21:14.50 | dataw0lf | Rock rock rock rock a Roll a roll a roll a roll |
| 21:14.50 | el_gaucho | when i hear techo this is all i remember..."man down, we need a medic" |
| 21:14.50 | mindjuju_ | i'll find you some stuff |
| 21:15.21 | el_gaucho | and dataw0lf is shanking...cause he is watching the el_gaucho slip into a comma |
| 21:15.26 | dataw0lf | mindjuju_: some of the best have tried, and failed, to convert me to your satanic homosexual music. |
| 21:15.45 | el_gaucho | did anyone watch jackass last night...very funny |
| 21:15.52 | mindjuju_ | satanic?!? |
| 21:15.59 | mindjuju_ | homosexual?!? |
| 21:17.44 | dataw0lf | mindjuju_: it's ok, we're trying to help. |
| 21:17.50 | dataw0lf | Where's Father Karras when you need him. |
| 21:18.39 | kryp71k|w | http://i30www.ira.uka.de/~kutzner/allwords/n.html :D |
| 21:19.03 | el_gaucho | oh cause you listen to metallica you are cool |
| 21:19.16 | mindjuju_ | i'm showing i've got the toonz |
| 21:19.23 | dataw0lf | Metallica is a bunch of wussies anyways. |
| 21:19.28 | el_gaucho | put on some pantera and you will rock |
| 21:19.40 | el_gaucho | some ol' school stuff |
| 21:19.48 | mindjuju_ | pantera, pantera, i think your attraction to them goes beyond music |
| 21:19.53 | mindjuju_ | ! |
| 21:21.08 | dataw0lf | haha Gwar |
| 21:21.21 | el_gaucho | now that is rocking...with humor |
| 21:21.22 | mindjuju_ | G n R Paradise City |
| 21:21.28 | *** kick/#uphpu [mindjuju_!~bigdog_ut@shylonhunter.dsl.xmission.com] by el_gaucho (el_gaucho) |
| 21:21.35 | el_gaucho | lol |
| 21:22.13 | el_gaucho | oh..i like their early albums |
| 21:22.28 | dataw0lf | like em all. |
| 21:22.40 | dataw0lf | flea can rock that bass like a mad man. |
| 21:22.52 | el_gaucho | flea and les are my favorites on base |
| 21:22.54 | el_gaucho | bass |
| 21:23.03 | el_gaucho | and stu ham |
| 21:23.05 | dataw0lf | flea and timmy c here. |
| 21:23.09 | dataw0lf | les is probably third. |
| 21:23.32 | el_gaucho | oh mindjuju is gone now |
| 21:25.15 | el_gaucho | wps seems to never be on |
| 21:25.38 | *** join/#uphpu mindjuju (~mindjuju@216.20.238.225) |
| 21:26.37 | jmul|w | probably went to the hospital after getting dehydrated |
| 21:26.44 | el_gaucho | lol |
| 21:26.47 | el_gaucho | no doubt |
| 21:26.52 | el_gaucho | i hoep the ahole is okay |
| 21:27.12 | el_gaucho | mindjuju ^5 |
| 21:27.15 | jmul|w | yeah |
| 21:27.34 | mindjuju | top that |
| 21:27.38 | mindjuju | ^5 |
| 21:27.48 | mindjuju | can't beat the Nugent |
| 21:28.04 | el_gaucho | ouch mindjuju that must hurt |
| 21:28.10 | mindjuju | k, that's true, that does trump |
| 21:28.34 | mindjuju | oh, I found it! |
| 21:28.53 | mindjuju | that beats! |
| 21:29.13 | jmul|w | I can top that.... Tiffany - i think we're alone now ok...sorry, that was wrong. =| |
| 21:29.53 | jmul|w | thought i'd get kicked for that one. |
| 21:30.04 | el_gaucho | i did not see it |
| 21:30.08 | dataw0lf | psh, I got you all. |
| 21:30.47 | el_gaucho | nice |
| 21:30.50 | el_gaucho | that is the best version |
| 21:31.53 | dataw0lf | ok, death blow to you all! |
| 21:32.04 | dataw0lf | GOAL! |
| 21:32.18 | el_gaucho | that is a great song...i like to karaoke to that one |
| 21:32.31 | mindjuju | that is tough to beat |
| 21:33.42 | el_gaucho | you cant have any puddin |
| 21:33.59 | dataw0lf | if you don't eat your meat, you can't have any puddin! |
| 21:34.08 | mindjuju | i hate to sound cliche but comfortably numb has to be Pink Floyd's best |
| 21:34.28 | mindjuju | except for the last 3 songs on dark side of the moon |
| 21:34.32 | dataw0lf | nah, Wish You Were Here, Time, Money, and Another Brick In The Wall beat em out |
| 21:34.35 | mindjuju | but that don't count cause that's 3 songs |
| 21:34.39 | el_gaucho | all pink floyd is great |
| 21:34.57 | dataw0lf | true true |
| 21:35.05 | el_gaucho | okay... |
| 21:35.53 | el_gaucho | co..co...colors |
| 21:35.57 | el_gaucho | that was a good movie |
| 21:36.01 | el_gaucho | back in the day |
| 21:37.17 | dataw0lf | psh. |
| 21:37.22 | dataw0lf | I'm so much more gangster than all you |
| 21:52.09 | dataw0lf | aw jea, girl showing up at 5:30 tonight |
| 21:52.29 | el_gaucho | nice |
| 21:53.14 | mindjuju | d dub, same one from last night? |
| 21:53.18 | dataw0lf | yeah |
| 21:53.20 | dataw0lf | she's a whiner |
| 21:53.21 | dataw0lf | but who cares |
| 21:53.28 | el_gaucho | lol |
| 21:53.32 | el_gaucho | whiner about? |
| 21:53.58 | dataw0lf | about how I went to Liberty Park last night to meet her then kryp71k|w got sick so I went to take him home and she was all whining and stuff |
| 21:54.10 | dataw0lf | now, kryp71k|w didn't REALLY get sick, but she couldn't know that. |
| 21:54.15 | el_gaucho | lol |
| 21:54.18 | el_gaucho | nice |
| 21:54.41 | kryp71k|w | good times. |
| 21:54.51 | dataw0lf | we were about to leave and she called |
| 21:54.58 | dataw0lf | so I was like, 'Tom's sick, I gots to go' |
| 21:55.07 | dataw0lf | and she's like 'you're not going anywhere' |
| 21:55.13 | dataw0lf | and I was like 'he got sick from a hot dog!' |
| 21:55.20 | dataw0lf | and she's like 'you better come and meet me right now' |
| 21:55.25 | dataw0lf | so I was like 'ok' |
| 21:55.36 | el_gaucho | good little retarded boy |
| 21:55.53 | dataw0lf | I just walked to her friends and split though. |
| 21:56.01 | dataw0lf | *her to her friends* |
| 21:56.07 | el_gaucho | dataw0lf, where is your car? |
| 21:56.15 | dataw0lf | hm. |
| 21:56.20 | dataw0lf | probably on the autobahn right now. |
| 21:56.24 | dataw0lf | being driven by a black guy. |
| 21:56.31 | dataw0lf | is my best guess. |
| 21:57.04 | el_gaucho | hwo? |
| 21:57.11 | dataw0lf | ? |
| 21:57.15 | dataw0lf | wth does hwo mean? |
| 21:58.06 | el_gaucho | hwo = dyslexic how |
| 21:58.10 | dataw0lf | oh. |
| 21:58.27 | dataw0lf | because my ex fiancee cheated with a black guy and then is not giving up my beamer. |
| 21:58.40 | dataw0lf | so, my best guess is that he's driving it on autobahn in Germany. |
| 21:58.45 | dataw0lf | since that's where they're both at. |
| 21:58.50 | dataw0lf | with my car. |
| 21:59.08 | el_gaucho | damn...are you still paying on it? |
| 21:59.12 | dataw0lf | pfft, no. |
| 21:59.23 | dataw0lf | I bought it cash money style, twas only a 94 7 series. |
| 21:59.24 | el_gaucho | good...so are you going to buy one here? |
| 21:59.33 | macnewbold | yeah, a humvee |
| 21:59.36 | dataw0lf | my parents are supposed to be delivering me a motorcycle for my birthday. |
| 21:59.38 | macnewbold | cause he misses them |
| 21:59.43 | el_gaucho | h3...for the poor guys like me |
| 21:59.48 | macnewbold | oooh, a harley, chix0rs dig those |
| 21:59.51 | dataw0lf | I was thinking of getting a 2005 Mazda 6 like eco |
| 21:59.57 | dataw0lf | nah, it's a honda |
| 22:00.09 | macnewbold | I've got a mazda protege, and they get sweet mileage, and drive well |
| 22:00.11 | macnewbold | lots of fun |
| 22:00.19 | dataw0lf | his mazda is purty swete. |
| 22:00.25 | macnewbold | yeah, the 6 looks nice |
| 22:00.26 | el_gaucho | mitsubishi is good too |
| 22:00.31 | dataw0lf | I want it in silver with black european racing stripes |
| 22:00.37 | macnewbold | hehe, yeah |
| 22:00.39 | el_gaucho | i like the new dodge charger |
| 22:00.44 | dataw0lf | and some hydros, if you know what I'm saying. |
| 22:00.46 | macnewbold | dataw0lf is teh r0x0rs |
| 22:00.50 | dataw0lf | cuz I'm so gangsta fo sho |
| 22:01.35 | dataw0lf | with, like, mad womenz and stuff in the passenger side, know wat I'm saying? |
| 22:01.41 | dataw0lf | can you get a package like that from Mazda? |
| 22:02.00 | dataw0lf | 'Um, cd player, automagic windows ummm leather interior... and two womenz, plz. kthnx' |
| 22:02.13 | dataw0lf | 'are they warrantied' |
| 22:02.14 | dataw0lf | ? |
| 22:02.19 | dataw0lf | :D |
| 22:14.25 | el_gaucho | man i have been using psi for jabber and it rocks |
| 22:27.46 | dataw0lf | your momma |
| 22:27.49 | dataw0lf | cya guys tomorrow |
| 22:47.03 | *** join/#uphpu Utah_Dav1 (~boucha@c-24-10-150-48.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 23:06.07 | jmul|w | just listened to George Winston play some classical guitar...in person |
| 23:06.32 | jmul|w | he plays for the hospital employees for free whenever he's in town |
| 23:15.20 | macnewbold | wow, cool |
| 23:15.24 | macnewbold | is he in town a lot? |
| 23:20.54 | mindjuju | mac |
| 23:29.55 | *** join/#uphpu eco|w (~eco@dsl093-225-126.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 23:48.50 | mindjuju | bigdog, you around? |
| 23:50.00 | macnewbold | mindjuju: did you need something? |
| 23:50.25 | mindjuju | yeah, i've got a prob where the firewall was tightened and i've lost ability to VNC to web server |
| 23:50.29 | macnewbold | doh |
| 23:50.35 | mindjuju | now the catch is that the guy running the firewall says it isn't him |
| 23:50.47 | macnewbold | hm, he probably "tightened" it on accident |
| 23:50.55 | macnewbold | in other words, he b0rk3d it |
| 23:51.01 | mindjuju | yup, very likely |
| 23:51.11 | mindjuju | looking for something like tracert |
| 23:51.20 | mindjuju | except where i can specify port |
| 23:51.23 | macnewbold | any particular reason why he's filtering high (>1000) port numbers? |
| 23:51.47 | macnewbold | there's a program called tcptraceroute that does that |
| 23:52.03 | macnewbold | (you have to be either TCP or UDP to have a port number, IP itself doesn't have them) |
| 23:52.24 | macnewbold | if you want me to test it for you, just msg me the info |
| 23:52.26 | mindjuju | well he says he opened those ports specifically, i think it has to do with a scan on the packet themselves |
| 23:52.31 | macnewbold | (port #, IP addr, etc.) |
| 23:52.37 | macnewbold | and we can always nmap it :) |
| 23:53.14 | macnewbold | he's firewalling based on packet _contents_? (i.e payload, not just protocol/port#/src/dst) |
| 23:53.21 | macnewbold | talk about paranoid |
| 23:53.25 | mindjuju | i think that is what happened |
| 23:53.33 | macnewbold | especially for a guy who sounds a little clueless |
| 23:53.36 | mindjuju | stateful packet monitoring |
| 23:53.42 | macnewbold | sillyness. |
| 23:53.45 | macnewbold | just give me a connection |
| 23:53.58 | macnewbold | if you msg me the IP / port #, I'll tcptraceroute it |
| 23:54.07 | macnewbold | that will tell us where it's getting blocked |
| 23:54.14 | macnewbold | and test the packet contents theory |
| 23:54.29 | mindjuju | info to the firewall or to the webserver? |
| 23:54.43 | macnewbold | the one you can't connect to - the destination host |
| 23:54.50 | macnewbold | the traceroute will find the firewall for us |
| 23:55.24 | macnewbold | tcptraceroute 1.4 (2002-07-30) |
| 23:55.24 | macnewbold | Copyright (c) 2001, 2002 Michael C. Toren <mct@toren.net> |
| 23:55.24 | macnewbold | Updates are available from http://michael.toren.net/code/tcptraceroute/ |
| 23:55.24 | macnewbold | Usage: tcptraceroute [-nNFSAE] [-i <interface>] [-f <first ttl>] [-l <packet length>] [-q <number of queries>] [-t <tos>] [-m <max ttl>] [-pP] <source port>] [-s <source address>] [-w <wait time>] <host> [destination port] [packet length] |
| 23:55.30 | mindjuju | well see, that's the catch, i run the firewall on the webserver, i've not got that side clamped, i'm behind the firewall that is clamped |
| 23:55.41 | mindjuju | so wouldn't i have to run the tcptraceroute here to see where it stops? |
| 23:55.41 | macnewbold | that's fine |
| 23:55.51 | macnewbold | depends... are you trying to get out, or in? |
| 23:56.01 | macnewbold | he shouldn't be blocking much on the way out... |
| 23:56.01 | mindjuju | i'm having problems getting out |
| 23:56.08 | macnewbold | do you have tcptraceroute |
| 23:56.09 | macnewbold | ? |
| 23:56.20 | macnewbold | if not, a try from outside is better than nothing |
| 23:56.22 | mindjuju | if i jump on a computer outside the firewall i can vnc no problems |
| 23:56.28 | macnewbold | ah |
| 23:56.38 | macnewbold | then what's your src IP? |
| 23:56.45 | macnewbold | (or your NAT IP, if you're natted) |