| 00:28.07 | *** join/#uphpu tierra (~tierra@dsl093-225-126.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 03:03.44 | *** join/#uphpu bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@shylonhunter.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 03:03.44 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o bigdog_ut] by ChanServ |
| 03:05.28 | bigdog_ut | whatz up |
| 03:46.31 | *** join/#uphpu wps (~wade@65.73.113.199) |
| 03:46.36 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 04:33.21 | *** join/#uphpu dataw0lf- (~dataw0lf@c-24-10-173-249.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 04:33.43 | dataw0lf- | sup gentlemen |
| 04:33.46 | dataw0lf- | and bigdog_ut |
| 04:33.51 | dataw0lf- | sorry didn't mean to discriminate. |
| 04:33.57 | dataw0lf- | :] |
| 05:26.41 | wps | :) |
| 05:35.24 | dataw0lf- | wassup wps |
| 05:43.53 | wps | hey |
| 05:44.14 | wps | this is going to be a long night |
| 05:44.21 | wps | especially since I only got three hours of sleep last night |
| 05:45.53 | wps | my wife got whacked on the head with a soccer ball this evening and has a mild concussion… so I have to wake her up ever hour throughout the night to ensure that she stays conscious |
| 05:47.33 | dataw0lf- | oh, man, sorry to hear that. |
| 05:47.35 | dataw0lf- | best wishes. |
| 05:49.35 | wps | thanks |
| 05:50.43 | dataw0lf- | so besides sleeplessness, how's life for yah? :) |
| 05:51.44 | wps | going well |
| 05:51.54 | wps | school is kicking my butt, but I'm good |
| 05:52.15 | wps | you? |
| 05:52.23 | dataw0lf- | word. |
| 05:52.39 | dataw0lf- | Just working, enjoying my birthday, working on some projects. |
| 05:52.47 | wps | did you go to the meeting? |
| 05:52.49 | dataw0lf- | I might just stay up all night, who knows. |
| 05:52.51 | dataw0lf- | Yeah. |
| 05:53.49 | wps | go well? |
| 05:54.20 | dataw0lf- | a little sparse, but I think everybody left with a better idea of the direction we're going in. |
| 05:54.57 | dataw0lf- | and I think I'm going to throw a box together to host svn / the wiki / etc that mac can store at his work. |
| 05:55.14 | dataw0lf- | btw, I liked your logos. 'Specially the one with the paper airplane. |
| 05:55.17 | dataw0lf- | 'twas hawt. |
| 05:55.20 | wps | thanks |
| 05:55.34 | wps | did they decide on one? |
| 05:56.37 | dataw0lf- | not really enough people to make a 'decision', but those who were there were tied between your propellor one (the one that extends below 'Phlyte' a bit) and the paper airplane one. |
| 05:57.27 | wps | yeah, not really worth voting if there is only a handful |
| 05:57.37 | wps | glad I can contribute something |
| 05:57.44 | wps | I've been frustrated that I haven't been able to be involved |
| 05:58.06 | dataw0lf- | yeah, there was a rumor you might be able to sometime in August or so? |
| 05:58.23 | wps | yeah, the term is over on 11 August |
| 05:58.23 | dataw0lf- | I don't think we've ever met, now that I think about it. |
| 05:58.33 | wps | not officially, no |
| 05:58.44 | dataw0lf- | cool. |
| 05:58.46 | wps | I think that I saw you at one meeting at LinuxNetworx though |
| 05:59.07 | dataw0lf- | ah, maybe. Mac's regex presentation? |
| 05:59.13 | wps | that sounds right |
| 05:59.16 | wps | I think that it was your first |
| 05:59.20 | dataw0lf- | yeah, it was. |
| 05:59.37 | wps | you were on the back row |
| 06:01.22 | dataw0lf- | yeah, with xilch, tierra, optikal, and synic. |
| 06:04.02 | wps | well, I'm out… time to head to bed… for an hour |
| 06:04.07 | wps | have a good night |
| 06:04.10 | wps | and happy birthday |
| 06:04.13 | dataw0lf- | thanks, and good night. |
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| 15:25.47 | *** join/#uphpu RyanE (~rerickson@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 15:52.41 | mindjuju | yo dataw0lf |
| 15:53.56 | mindjuju | darn, thought he might be recovering from his party last night |
| 15:54.20 | mindjuju | k, here is a question to the floor, if anybody has any advice, let me know |
| 15:54.41 | mindjuju | i'm building a firewall for an email server, going to close down everything but port 80, 25, 110 |
| 15:55.26 | mindjuju | i'm not thinking i need any other ports open, anybody have anything to say differently? |
| 15:55.57 | RyanE | 443 |
| 15:56.03 | RyanE | want https:// no? |
| 15:56.26 | mindjuju | i'm going to try not to browse too much on the box, but 443 is safe |
| 15:56.43 | mindjuju | thnx! can you think of any others? |
| 15:57.03 | *** join/#uphpu jakea (~jakea@byu292238wks.byu.edu) |
| 15:57.05 | dataw0lf | remove 25, use 22 |
| 15:58.42 | mindjuju | is that to throw off nmap and the like? |
| 15:59.05 | dataw0lf | no, that's to use ssh/sftp over plain old ftp. |
| 15:59.27 | dataw0lf | doesn't matter what port it's on, nmap will know what you're running on it |
| 16:00.23 | toxs | 25=smtp 21=ftp no? |
| 16:00.26 | dataw0lf | ack, wth am I talking about |
| 16:00.32 | dataw0lf | yeah, I'm tired. |
| 16:00.37 | dataw0lf | add ssh/sftp then |
| 16:00.57 | mindjuju | k, you scared me for a sec, had to pull up the IANA list on ports real fast |
| 16:01.07 | mindjuju | how was your party ? |
| 16:01.41 | dataw0lf | I didn't partay last night, gots to work. |
| 16:02.06 | dataw0lf | was up til about 3 am though programming hehe |
| 16:07.34 | RyanE | I'd just have 443 open so you can do squirrelmail (or other webmail access) to the box |
| 16:11.05 | *** join/#uphpu Utah_Dave (~boucha@0-1pool138-158.nas28.salt-lake-city1.ut.us.da.qwest.net) |
| 16:14.03 | jm_ul|w | was greynome at the meeting last night? |
| 16:14.50 | dataw0lf | yes. |
| 16:15.16 | jm_ul|w | ok |
| 17:33.30 | mindjuju | i finally found somebody who seems to have pulled off Horizontal Menus in CSS, but he seems to caution its use. i'm not sure i understand his arguements against using it, as it seems he is just trying to keep compliant to w3c |
| 17:33.37 | mindjuju | anybody see anything wrong with using this code? |
| 17:33.38 | mindjuju | http://www.stunicholls.myby.co.uk/menus/dropdownfun.html |
| 17:55.31 | *** join/#uphpu zardinuk (~jeff@vulcan.americom.com) |
| 17:58.04 | mindjuju | I'm having a hard time objectively reading this article on Internet Governance. some in the UN want Internet Goverance to be a UN thing, others are against it. Me, i can't get past the fact that we paid for most of it, and I like the governance just the way it is. any to the contrary? |
| 17:58.07 | mindjuju | http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050715/ap_on_hi_te/internet_control |
| 18:01.06 | mindjuju | i mean if it is an argument on we should share, and blah blah, it will benefit the whole world to have UN goverance, couldn't the same thing be said for Oil production? The whole world uses oil so we should put it under the ospices of the UN? (ps, not a big fan of the UN and see this as their way of them trying to stay relevant) |
| 18:01.55 | dataw0lf | I'm going to lunch. |
| 18:02.18 | dataw0lf | But a comprised entity of many countries based hegemony, is better than the US hegemony that is being attempted currently (with more success) |
| 18:02.20 | dataw0lf | I'm out. |
| 18:02.20 | zardinuk | the UN is a bunch of countries trying to diminish the United States's #1 super power status |
| 18:02.51 | mindjuju | agreed |
| 18:02.51 | dataw0lf | ack |
| 18:02.56 | dataw0lf | zardinuk: with excellent reasons |
| 18:02.57 | dataw0lf | ok, lunch |
| 18:03.15 | zardinuk | maybe to you, but I like things in the US |
| 18:03.58 | mindjuju | excellent reasons?!? like oh, i don't know a little trading money under the table *COUGH* Iraq Oil for food *COUGH* |
| 18:04.21 | mindjuju | no wonder France and Russian were against Iraq |
| 18:04.42 | zardinuk | most of the countries that support turning the internet governing body over to a UN subdivision are the small human rights violator types, the bigger ones just want it owned by a US based non-profit |
| 18:04.46 | mindjuju | i would be too if I was making millions in illicit funds! |
| 18:05.11 | zardinuk | the US, and probably most people in the world, don't see anything wrong |
| 18:05.20 | mindjuju | i noticed that, I wished they'd have gone into more details on the point of who wanted it broken out |
| 18:05.32 | zardinuk | just a bunch of little dictators banding together to try and topple the US |
| 18:06.33 | zardinuk | I hear Chirac may be tossed out of office, very low approval ratings, and he is saying some pretty ridiculous things |
| 18:06.33 | mindjuju | ugh, everytime I read something about the UN i get more disillusioned with them. Is it me? |
| 18:07.07 | zardinuk | nope |
| 18:07.47 | mindjuju | I swear i'm trying to be impartial! I really really am, but these countries that were against the war, weren't against it because of Peace, Harmony, Humanity, blah blah blah, it was financial in large part |
| 18:08.28 | zardinuk | most of the explosives being used by the terrorists in Iraq were manufactured by France and Russia, I dont see any point trying to be impartial... heh |
| 18:10.27 | zardinuk | besides, the whole peace argument doesn't hold much weight... they are conveying the same attitude everywhere, ignoring the human rights violations |
| 18:10.36 | mindjuju | the thing i hate most is the media portrays the UN as this Noble expression of Humanity. Give me a break! |
| 18:11.21 | zardinuk | definately financially motivated, and these european countries have pretty good reason to be worried about their finances as their economies are going down the toilet |
| 18:11.54 | mindjuju | i know! in a way I really feel sorry for them. EU having a hard time staying together... |
| 18:13.48 | zardinuk | I'm sure it won't last, the common currency is one thing but the rest is nonsense |
| 18:26.41 | zardinuk | I think Europe has yet to embrace capitalism, they're still living in the post WW2 era, I read an article in Forbes last month that pointed out all the reasons European nations are hostile to entrepreneurialism, the EU embodies socialism, in a purely capitalist society there is no real need for one unifying body |
| 18:27.13 | zardinuk | the countries aught to compete for businesses, like the US does with other nations |
| 18:27.32 | zardinuk | but you have conglomerates like airbus forming now, which is just ridiculous, airbus will be the next catastrophic failure |
| 18:28.01 | mindjuju | you know what really has me scared |
| 18:28.13 | zardinuk | what? |
| 18:28.30 | mindjuju | is China looking to buy Unocal. And it isn't just a chinese company buying Unocal, it's a Stated Owned company buying Unocal |
| 18:28.30 | zardinuk | that the euro will become valueless and widespread riots throughout europe? |
| 18:29.02 | zardinuk | I haven't thought about that one much, whats the problem there? I think China is on the fast track to success right now |
| 18:29.58 | mindjuju | Well, it's a matter of level playing field. If you put the combined might of a company and their governement, they are going to be able to buy a ton of stuff |
| 18:30.05 | mindjuju | where just a normal company wouldn't be able to do so |
| 18:30.41 | mindjuju | and it isn't company buying company anymore; it's state owned company buying foreign companies |
| 18:30.46 | zardinuk | that happens all the time, the US is really big on corporate subsidies |
| 18:31.28 | zardinuk | that seems to be a real problem though |
| 18:31.35 | mindjuju | hmm... didn't know that. I really need to appropriate more time to study finance |
| 18:31.53 | mindjuju | I center most of my time on computer programming and general politics |
| 18:32.07 | zardinuk | thats what the whole problem is with airbus vs boeing, airbus gets billions of subsidies from european nations and boeing is subsidized by the US |
| 18:32.11 | mindjuju | I should branch out though to include more of domestic and foreign economics |
| 18:32.36 | zardinuk | well I majored in Business, I've had my share |
| 18:33.01 | mindjuju | I thought that was the case, but then concluded i interpreted everything wrong, cause I didn't know we'd do that |
| 18:33.19 | mindjuju | but it came up as a point during this airshow thing were airbus and boeing were announcing contracts |
| 18:33.19 | zardinuk | Well its a cloudy subject |
| 18:33.34 | zardinuk | because they don't actually consider government contracts, for military spending and stuff, to be corporate subsidies |
| 18:34.01 | zardinuk | but auto makers in Japan get all sorts of gimmes |
| 18:34.05 | zardinuk | the auto companies run Japan |
| 18:34.13 | zardinuk | and in order to be competitive the US has to do the same thing |
| 18:34.19 | zardinuk | its just how things operate |
| 18:34.35 | mindjuju | see... that's why I need to study more on finances. it's such a political driver |
| 18:36.23 | zardinuk | next the UN is going to come after Google, and Ebay, I have to admit they have something to worry about, heh... America is taking over the world |
| 18:36.50 | zardinuk | in a good way |
| 18:37.38 | zardinuk | mindjuju: you'd probably be surprised to hear an in depth discussion on why national debt is not such a bad thing? |
| 18:38.00 | mindjuju | Actually, to the contrary, I'm a big beliver in Keyne's econimic theory |
| 18:38.08 | mindjuju | is that how you spell his name? |
| 18:38.12 | zardinuk | Keynes |
| 18:38.24 | mindjuju | confession, i loved keynes |
| 18:38.30 | zardinuk | I was talking to someone the other day about that, they thought our national debt was going to cause WW3 |
| 18:39.08 | mindjuju | it is so funny you say that. cause everybody think debt is bad. I always argue macro enomics - keynes vs the other guy who's name eludes me |
| 18:39.19 | zardinuk | Adam Smith? |
| 18:39.20 | mindjuju | where keynes said government spending good for econmy and the other guy was saying the opposite |
| 18:39.32 | mindjuju | can't remember his name anymore but i did take 1 year of econmics |
| 18:39.36 | mindjuju | about 10 years ago |
| 18:39.38 | zardinuk | Oh, I think I know who you're talking about |
| 18:39.45 | zardinuk | the Reagan tax cut debate? |
| 18:39.53 | *** join/#uphpu greygnome (~greygnome@c-67-186-198-153.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:40.08 | zardinuk | Kemp-Roth |
| 18:40.24 | mindjuju | well, it was actually on Clinton and what a good job he was doing saving all this money and we were out of debt, and I was arguing Keynes and how it isn't that Clinton is a good saver and Bush isn't |
| 18:40.43 | mindjuju | It's more of two economic theories and one president is following one way, another is following another way |
| 18:41.37 | zardinuk | well, I don't know about Clinton, I think he took a stab in the dark and nailed it, he probably wasn't predicting at the time that there would be unheard of growth |
| 18:41.38 | mindjuju | i mean talk about a case study, we had the gov pour billions into technology / space exploration / research, ARPA, etc etc... |
| 18:41.45 | mindjuju | we are still harvesting from that |
| 18:41.48 | mindjuju | And all that is Keynes |
| 18:42.07 | zardinuk | in a perfect world, economicists would be able to predict rise and fall |
| 18:42.20 | mindjuju | well, about Clinton, I was being sarcastic, and was arguing the contrary on clinton that he wasn't that good cause he could save |
| 18:42.35 | *** part/#uphpu Utah_Dave (~boucha@0-1pool138-158.nas28.salt-lake-city1.ut.us.da.qwest.net) |
| 18:43.01 | mindjuju | or are you saying that it was blind luck that he saved any at all? |
| 18:43.13 | zardinuk | well, have you studied the Laffer curve? |
| 18:43.27 | mindjuju | that seems so familiar to me |
| 18:43.30 | zardinuk | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve |
| 18:44.29 | mindjuju | love it |
| 18:44.44 | zardinuk | its anybody's guess what the perfect fiscal policy is at any given point in time |
| 18:45.11 | zardinuk | but I think Bush is definately doing well... I have been watching the stock market lately |
| 18:46.12 | zardinuk | you can pretty much pick any stock in the news right now and make 10%, 20% gains in a few weeks |
| 18:46.32 | zardinuk | I got this little app I set up, sortof a stock game |
| 18:46.49 | zardinuk | I can buy and sell fake stocks, since I have zero money right now |
| 18:46.54 | zardinuk | :) |
| 18:47.04 | zardinuk | Just got married |
| 18:48.05 | mindjuju | k, so towards the end where they were talking about Reagan econmics, that was the whole "Trickle down econimcs", right? |
| 18:48.18 | zardinuk | yeah |
| 18:48.28 | mindjuju | Was young during Reagan so don't remember much, didn't understand much |
| 18:48.33 | mindjuju | Congrats on getting married! |
| 18:49.12 | zardinuk | I was young too, but I read a lot of books on presidential history |
| 18:53.26 | dataw0lf | zardinuk: you're right Bush is doing well! |
| 18:53.31 | dataw0lf | Doing really well. |
| 18:53.35 | dataw0lf | Really really well. |
| 18:53.57 | dataw0lf | At killing american soldiers, continuing to alienate foreign powers, and basically just making a dumbass of himself. |
| 18:54.00 | dataw0lf | you know. |
| 18:54.04 | dataw0lf | the Bush family thing. |
| 18:54.19 | dataw0lf | (besides running companies into the ground and getting bailed out by family members) |
| 18:54.25 | zardinuk | typical dataw0lf, *yawn* |
| 18:54.42 | dataw0lf | If you support Bush so much go to your local recruiter. |
| 18:54.44 | dataw0lf | Right. Now. |
| 18:54.49 | dataw0lf | They need the troops. |
| 18:54.57 | dataw0lf | As soon as stop loss ends, we're going to be in trouble. |
| 18:55.06 | dataw0lf | Well not stop loss ending, but full eight years for troops running out. |
| 18:55.11 | dataw0lf | So pack your bags, boyo. |
| 18:55.18 | mindjuju | alienating foreign powers? like who france? Z and I just discussed how france wasn't against Iraq for peace, they were against it for the money |
| 18:55.27 | zardinuk | I enlisted in the marines when I was 17, DEP, but then I broke my back and wasn't able to go forward with it |
| 18:55.31 | dataw0lf | so? Bush wasn't going into Iraq to help the people? |
| 18:55.41 | dataw0lf | DEP doesn't mean anything. |
| 18:55.46 | dataw0lf | you're telling me you didn't even go through boot camp. |
| 18:55.49 | zardinuk | well I was going to go |
| 18:55.57 | zardinuk | its the thought that counts, right ;) |
| 18:56.00 | dataw0lf | Any schumck can say I 'was going to go' or 'I WAS IN DEP!' |
| 18:56.12 | zardinuk | I really wanted to be in combat... |
| 18:56.17 | mindjuju | What is DEP? |
| 18:56.17 | dataw0lf | I can't continue this conversation |
| 18:56.27 | dataw0lf | the family nature of this channel prevents me describing you. |
| 18:56.28 | zardinuk | well, what did you do, dataw0lf? |
| 18:56.31 | dataw0lf | I'm out. |
| 18:56.32 | *** part/#uphpu dataw0lf (~dataw0lf@66.219.227.114) |
| 18:56.43 | zardinuk | heh, he's nutty |
| 18:57.03 | zardinuk | DEP is delayed entry program, a recruiter came to my high school and nabbedme |
| 18:57.13 | mindjuju | ah |
| 18:57.46 | zardinuk | but I got a compression fracture in my back, to be honest I didn't have to tell them but I decided it wasn't my best option, financially, hehe |
| 18:57.56 | zardinuk | so I used it to weasel my way out |
| 18:59.01 | zardinuk | I was into the whole shooting guns thing and thought it would be fun, but they were only paying something like $900/month |
| 19:00.02 | mindjuju | Sorry to hear about your back! About DW, I don't know a lot about his military experience, but I do know he was something called 19d, attack pathfinder |
| 19:00.12 | mindjuju | he just got back from Iraq, i think he said a year ago |
| 19:00.21 | zardinuk | I saw that on the mailing list |
| 19:00.39 | mindjuju | i'm not sure how long he was there, but he did mention Afghan too. |
| 19:01.09 | zardinuk | well, I like to think I would serve honorably if they really needed me, but you know, some people really need the army and I didn't |
| 19:01.33 | *** join/#uphpu PaRMaLaT (PaRMaLaT@c9115715.rjo.virtua.com.br) |
| 19:01.36 | PaRMaLaT | Hi, anybody knows about make MSN bot using PHP? |
| 19:02.31 | *** join/#uphpu greygnome (~greygnome@c-67-186-198-153.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:03.19 | *** join/#uphpu dataw0lf (~dataw0lf@66.219.227.114) |
| 19:03.41 | PaRMaLaT | Hey, somebody can help me? |
| 19:04.12 | dataw0lf | with what, PaRMaLaT ? |
| 19:04.33 | mindjuju | he was asking about MSN bot using PHP |
| 19:04.43 | mindjuju | if anybody knew about it |
| 19:05.01 | dataw0lf | like the MSN spider? or MSN messaging bot? |
| 19:05.27 | PaRMaLaT | Not exactly |
| 19:05.57 | dataw0lf | PaRMaLaT: What exactly then. Sorry, I might've missed earlier questions. |
| 19:06.04 | PaRMaLaT | I would like to build a bot to coversate with me |
| 19:06.09 | dataw0lf | Oh. |
| 19:06.16 | PaRMaLaT | but I want to built it with PHP |
| 19:07.09 | dataw0lf | You could have a form element that posts to itself, then parses what you said in the form element, throws it through x calculation / 'translation' function, then either respond with a list of responses, or build one yourself (hard) |
| 19:07.18 | PaRMaLaT | I work at a school, and the students will be able to see their grades using the MSN |
| 19:07.34 | dataw0lf | oh, ok, thought you were confused about the MSN thing. |
| 19:07.45 | dataw0lf | so you need them to message from msn to x, and they can get grades from x? |
| 19:07.55 | mindjuju | i don't think MSN has an API you can tap into like that |
| 19:07.56 | PaRMaLaT | exactley! |
| 19:08.13 | dataw0lf | PaRMaLaT: where are the grades kept? |
| 19:08.18 | dataw0lf | SQL database, flat files, etc. |
| 19:08.29 | PaRMaLaT | I have a php class but it is in chineese and it has some mistakes in it, but I can´t solve it |
| 19:08.36 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: but you could have an event operating on a file that the MSN receiving end logged to. |
| 19:08.37 | PaRMaLaT | MySQL |
| 19:09.08 | dataw0lf | or (maybe better) have the logging thrown into SQL, which then uses a trigger of some sort.. hmm |
| 19:09.33 | PaRMaLaT | it´s quite easy then that |
| 19:09.44 | PaRMaLaT | when the student says: GRADE |
| 19:09.56 | PaRMaLaT | the bot replyes: login |
| 19:10.01 | PaRMaLaT | user: MYNAME |
| 19:10.13 | dataw0lf | this what you're looking at, I guess: http://www.phpclasses.org/browse/package/1407.html |
| 19:10.13 | PaRMaLaT | bot says: PASWORD |
| 19:10.20 | PaRMaLaT | student: PASSW |
| 19:10.42 | PaRMaLaT | and then, the bot execute a function to SELECT the grade at the database, and give him the information |
| 19:11.01 | dataw0lf | right, we're talking about the actual way the bot responds, though. |
| 19:11.14 | dataw0lf | i.e., the way MSN is integrated into PHP. |
| 19:11.39 | PaRMaLaT | yeah! |
| 19:11.48 | dataw0lf | right. |
| 19:12.00 | PaRMaLaT | I downloaded this class for a time |
| 19:12.13 | dataw0lf | how well do you know PHP ? |
| 19:12.21 | PaRMaLaT | but the comments are in chineese but whithout the correct font |
| 19:12.27 | PaRMaLaT | so, it´s IMPOSSIBLE to undersatnd |
| 19:12.48 | jm_ul|w | in case anyone is interested..... http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/web/library/wa-rubyonrails/?S_TACT=105AGX02&S_CMP=HP |
| 19:12.54 | PaRMaLaT | I´m working hard with php for 2 years |
| 19:13.11 | jm_ul|w | man...i almost have 2 months under my belt |
| 19:13.43 | dataw0lf | PaRMaLaT: where's your school at? |
| 19:13.59 | *** join/#uphpu cycoboy (cycokilr@c-67-166-121-149.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:14.05 | zardinuk | hey jm_ul|w: what sort of apps do you do in rails? |
| 19:14.06 | PaRMaLaT | in Brasil |
| 19:14.18 | dataw0lf | PaRMaLaT: ah, have you tried #php yet? |
| 19:14.28 | dataw0lf | many more people. This is a 'Utah' based php channel. |
| 19:14.40 | dataw0lf | whilst we're stilling willing to help, you might want to try #php first. |
| 19:14.50 | jm_ul|w | I don't do any apps in rails.... someone pasted that article in #php I'm on the 4th or 5th paragraph |
| 19:14.56 | jm_ul|w | or ruby |
| 19:15.13 | zardinuk | someone pasted that in #rubyonrails too |
| 19:15.19 | jm_ul|w | oh |
| 19:15.21 | PaRMaLaT | Yeah! i´ve tried, but the Chanserv said me that there is not the right place to solve my doubt |
| 19:15.26 | jm_ul|w | hmm...not on that channel |
| 19:15.39 | dataw0lf | PaRMaLaT: nah, don't worry about that. try it again. |
| 19:15.50 | zardinuk | I've been using it exclusively for the last 4 or 5 months |
| 19:16.07 | zardinuk | I love it |
| 19:16.18 | PaRMaLaT | Oh, thanks, I will try to connect again tonight |
| 19:16.24 | dataw0lf | no problem. |
| 19:16.25 | jm_ul|w | zardinuk: Ruby is something that has caught my eye...but as of now I'm too busy learning php while I'm at work and python when I go home. |
| 19:16.39 | PaRMaLaT | I´ve got a go! Thanks for all! holds! |
| 19:16.53 | dataw0lf | take care. |
| 19:17.02 | dataw0lf | jm_ul|w: isn't the #python channel awesome? |
| 19:17.49 | jm_ul|w | dataw0lf: a lot of if not most all of the discussion is over my head.... but I get every question I have answered there.... so I would say it is awesome. |
| 19:18.15 | dataw0lf | jm_ul|w: How's python treating you so far? |
| 19:19.36 | mindjuju | DW, this code you found is tapping straight into MSN chat |
| 19:19.49 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: I didn't bother to look at it. |
| 19:19.49 | mindjuju | this is VERY interesting! didn't know this was possible |
| 19:19.55 | mindjuju | you want a copy? |
| 19:20.49 | dataw0lf | Nah. Trying to stay away from the PHP, thanks though. |
| 19:22.17 | jm_ul|w | dataw0lf: so far python makes complete sense. |
| 19:22.37 | dataw0lf | jm_ul|w: awesome to hear. |
| 19:22.45 | dataw0lf | (and expected) |
| 19:24.20 | jm_ul|w | dataw0lf: would you think idle is good enough or am i going to need any sort of ide sooner or later? |
| 19:24.35 | dataw0lf | IDLE is.. ok. |
| 19:24.46 | dataw0lf | I've been using SPE, it's pretty nice, latest release is a bit buggy, however. |
| 19:24.55 | *** part/#uphpu toxs (~toxs@166.70.209.242) |
| 19:25.07 | dataw0lf | Komodo is really, really nice, but, unfortunately, it's pretty slow / and is commercial. |
| 19:25.27 | jm_ul|w | yeah...i'd need something open source for windows |
| 19:25.41 | jm_ul|w | or freeware |
| 19:25.45 | jm_ul|w | ...whatever |
| 19:26.26 | dataw0lf | spe runs under Windows. |
| 19:26.37 | jm_ul|w | not going to pay for something right now in the learning stage. |
| 19:26.43 | jm_ul|w | cool |
| 19:26.47 | jm_ul|w | I'll look into spe |
| 19:26.50 | dataw0lf | http://www.stani.be/python/spe/blog/ |
| 19:27.25 | RyanE | datawolf: you want a Perl app to connect to MSN? |
| 19:27.25 | jm_ul|w | thanks |
| 19:29.18 | dataw0lf | RyanE: nah, that was some guy in here earlier asking about that. |
| 19:29.29 | dataw0lf | I just found the class he was planning on using. |
| 19:29.32 | RyanE | aha. |
| 19:30.50 | *** join/#uphpu tierra (~tierra@dsl093-225-126.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 19:31.41 | jm_ul|w | dataw0lf: so do I get the latest SPE (.7) or one of the .6 versions? (you stated the latest version was buggy...or is it not buggy enough for a beginner to notice anything?) |
| 19:31.58 | dataw0lf | I'd probably give .6 a try. |
| 19:32.13 | jm_ul|w | I'll do that |
| 19:38.34 | *** join/#uphpu greygnome (~greygnome@c-67-186-198-153.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 19:56.47 | dataw0lf | sup greygnome |
| 20:06.44 | *** join/#uphpu Utah_Dave (~boucha@0-1pool138-158.nas28.salt-lake-city1.ut.us.da.qwest.net) |
| 20:16.21 | *** topic/#uphpu by macnewbold -> July presenter needed! Sign up today! |
| 20:17.30 | dataw0lf | oh yeah. |
| 20:17.38 | dataw0lf | hey, tierra, you should totally do a presentation on something. |
| 20:18.42 | *** join/#uphpu Ryan1 (~rerickson@rberick.dsl.xmission.com) |
| 20:18.46 | tierra | speaking of which, doesn't look like I'm going to get a hold of Dave, so probably no root beer at the bbq, you should volunteer to bring stuff to drink |
| 20:19.14 | Ryan1 | what day is that again? Will you send out another announcement when it gets closer to BBQ time? |
| 20:19.24 | dataw0lf | tierra: I can bring stuff to drink. |
| 20:19.31 | dataw0lf | tierra: but you should do a presentation. seriously. |
| 20:19.56 | tierra | depends, when's the meeting? |
| 20:20.00 | dataw0lf | ahem |
| 20:20.03 | dataw0lf | next Tuesday |
| 20:20.09 | jm_ul|w | spe install didn't take... i'll use IDLE. |
| 20:20.18 | tierra | I don't think that's going to work |
| 20:20.21 | dataw0lf | jm_ul|w: ensure you're using wxwidgets |
| 20:20.23 | dataw0lf | 2.5 |
| 20:20.35 | dataw0lf | tierra: why not? c'mon, dude, I'll help you throw some slides together. |
| 20:21.06 | tierra | I can't commit to having a decent presentation ready by then... besides, it's been a while since I've touched PHP |
| 20:21.28 | jm_ul|w | i installed wxwidgets at home (not here) and that gave me problems too. I saw the wx and thought wxwidgets had something to do with it .. wasn't sure |
| 20:21.34 | tierra | and you already volunteered me to arrange the BBQ |
| 20:21.59 | jm_ul|w | there is no binary is there....? |
| 20:22.10 | tierra | 2.6.1 is latest out btw... not to say it'll work with it though |
| 20:22.40 | tierra | wxWidgets hasn't had a really stable release since 2.4.2 |
| 20:23.30 | tierra | I can't go camping this weekend either dataw0lf |
| 20:23.53 | tierra | I've got too much on my plate right now that I have to take care of |
| 20:24.16 | tierra | haven't even seen my family in close to a month now |
| 20:26.57 | dataw0lf | tierra: it's cool. |
| 20:27.03 | dataw0lf | tierra: I thought it'd fall through. |
| 20:27.09 | dataw0lf | I guess I can call that girl up. |
| 20:30.19 | mindjuju | since there aren't any speakers, we should either 1 - have a phlyte meeting or 2 - LAN party either consoles or laptops or both |
| 20:30.47 | mindjuju | i favor the second option... been a while since i've been to a LAN party |
| 20:32.31 | dataw0lf | mmm Xbox and Halo 2 mmmm with coding afterwards mmmm |
| 20:32.40 | Utah_Dave | mmm |
| 20:32.55 | mindjuju | yeah! let's do it. everybody pack their xbox and a small tv |
| 20:32.56 | dataw0lf | :-) |
| 20:33.06 | mindjuju | i've got an extra switch somewhere i think |
| 20:35.46 | dataw0lf | you don't want a piece of this, sir. |
| 20:35.57 | mindjuju | bring it! |
| 20:36.24 | dataw0lf | awwwwww, no you did NOT, girlfriend. *snaps fingers in intricate pattern* |
| 20:36.46 | jm_ul|w | snaps in Z formation? |
| 20:36.47 | mindjuju | yo, let's bust it old skool |
| 20:37.02 | mindjuju | white chicks quote? |
| 20:37.18 | dataw0lf | I refuse to watch that racist a** movie. |
| 20:37.33 | dataw0lf | if it was the other way around the NAACP would be up in arms. |
| 20:38.11 | mindjuju | v true |
| 20:38.21 | mindjuju | k, so who's in for xbox on tuesday? |
| 20:38.31 | jm_ul|w | i think NAACP served it's purpose and should be broken up |
| 20:38.33 | mindjuju | i think DW is signed up for a major butt kickin' and i'm in for it |
| 20:39.06 | dataw0lf | you are out of your mind, sir. |
| 20:39.09 | jm_ul|w | what xbox games are popular now? |
| 20:39.17 | dataw0lf | you better hope you grab that rocket launcher with a quickness. |
| 20:39.38 | mindjuju | Rocket Launcher! psha! i'd get ya with the little energy sword |
| 20:39.50 | dataw0lf | not if I already have it, buddy. |
| 20:40.10 | dataw0lf | I know tierra is down for getting pwned by me in some Halo 2. |
| 20:40.25 | mindjuju | where's Bigdog? does he do Halo2? |
| 20:40.30 | mindjuju | what about Mac |
| 20:40.37 | mindjuju | ~dhit mac |
| 20:40.37 | jbot | ACTION performs Dog Collar of the Heavens on mac |
| 20:40.46 | macnewbold | ~dhit mindjuju |
| 20:40.46 | jbot | ACTION appears right behind mindjuju and slaps him in the back of the head |
| 20:40.59 | mindjuju | heya mac, you play halo 2? |
| 20:41.07 | macnewbold | nope |
| 20:41.22 | dataw0lf | he's too smart for it, he'd probably end up hax0ring the firmware. |
| 20:41.46 | macnewbold | last time I played a computer game, other than solitare on my palm pilot, was about 8-12 months ago, Warcraft3 |
| 20:43.23 | jm_ul|w | anyone play battlefield 1942-->desert combat mod? |
| 20:44.18 | dataw0lf | yeah, that and Vietnam. |
| 20:44.26 | dataw0lf | not as fun as Call of Duty imho though. |
| 20:44.49 | dataw0lf | or CS. |
| 20:44.56 | dataw0lf | dude, I totally would get my CS on if I had the time. |
| 20:45.04 | jm_ul|w | man... Call of Duty looks awesome.... my brother raves about vietnam |
| 20:45.07 | dataw0lf | cuz me and CS are like tight. |
| 20:45.17 | macnewbold | anyone ever play American Army? |
| 20:45.18 | dataw0lf | Vietnam was definitely an improvement. |
| 20:45.20 | macnewbold | it's free, btw |
| 20:45.32 | tierra | played AA a bit... |
| 20:45.35 | dataw0lf | Yeah, I played America's Army, we all got free cds whilst in Germany. |
| 20:45.44 | jm_ul|w | never heard of AA |
| 20:45.45 | tierra | not more than a few hours worth though, and that was a long time ago |
| 20:45.46 | dataw0lf | I know it's 'free', but the 1st sgt handed em out. |
| 20:45.58 | macnewbold | it's developed and paid for by the USArmy |
| 20:46.01 | macnewbold | recruiting tool :) |
| 20:46.16 | macnewbold | they paid like 16 million for it so far |
| 20:46.24 | macnewbold | goal is realism |
| 20:46.32 | jm_ul|w | oh that ... i remember it grinded my machine to a hault every time I tried to play it |
| 20:46.32 | macnewbold | then they try to hire the best players |
| 20:46.39 | dataw0lf | the weapons are pretty realistic, tbh. |
| 20:46.42 | dataw0lf | especially the SAW. |
| 20:47.26 | macnewbold | SAW = ? |
| 20:47.28 | macnewbold | ~SAW |
| 20:47.28 | jbot | methinks saw is Selected Ambient works, the seminal ambient albums by Aphex Twin, or a sharpish cutty thing. |
| 20:47.31 | dataw0lf | m249 |
| 20:47.35 | dataw0lf | Squad Automatic Weapon |
| 20:47.37 | dataw0lf | light machine gun |
| 20:47.39 | macnewbold | hm |
| 20:47.40 | dataw0lf | 5.56mm |
| 20:47.40 | macnewbold | got pics? |
| 20:47.42 | dataw0lf | (same as m4) |
| 20:47.53 | dataw0lf | http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m249.htm |
| 20:47.56 | macnewbold | yeah, the only one I've fired is an M16 |
| 20:48.19 | dataw0lf | I only fired an m16 once in the Army (during basic) |
| 20:48.40 | dataw0lf | it's still used quite a bit in non combat arms though, and with natty guard. |
| 20:49.01 | dataw0lf | m4 is so much awesomer++ (x10) |
| 20:49.05 | jm_ul|w | oh man "Unit Replacement Cost: $4,087" |
| 20:49.23 | dataw0lf | usually got two per platoon |
| 20:49.37 | dataw0lf | well, in cav scouts / attack pathfinders anyways. |
| 20:49.42 | dataw0lf | that's enough to make a difference. |
| 20:50.05 | dataw0lf | I think it breaks down to 2 saws per platoon, 2 m203s per platoon, 2 at4s per platoon... |
| 20:50.07 | dataw0lf | what am I missing. |
| 20:50.12 | dataw0lf | 2 mk19s per troop |
| 20:50.20 | dataw0lf | 2-3 .50 cals per troop |
| 20:50.43 | jm_ul|w | .50 cal sniper rifles? |
| 20:50.58 | dataw0lf | no, .50 cal machine guns. |
| 20:51.07 | jm_ul|w | mounted? |
| 20:51.15 | dataw0lf | yeah. |
| 20:51.26 | dataw0lf | cav scouts don't have the time to haul those things around. |
| 20:51.27 | dataw0lf | they. |
| 20:51.27 | dataw0lf | are. |
| 20:51.28 | jm_ul|w | how much do those things weigh....about? |
| 20:51.28 | dataw0lf | heavy. |
| 20:51.43 | dataw0lf | I'm unsure, let's say 60 lbs for the actual gun. |
| 20:51.46 | dataw0lf | about 10 lbs per barrel. |
| 20:51.50 | dataw0lf | who knows how much per round |
| 20:51.58 | dataw0lf | 20 lbs for tripod? |
| 20:52.13 | jm_ul|w | heh...did you get to fire one? |
| 20:52.14 | dataw0lf | I'm probably completely wrong. |
| 20:52.20 | dataw0lf | oh jeaaaa. |
| 20:52.35 | jm_ul|w | cool |
| 20:52.40 | dataw0lf | <- expert qualified on m4, m16, m203, at4, grenade, .50 cal, mk19, and 9mm |
| 20:54.07 | dataw0lf | zardinuk: yeah, watch a .50 cal rip through 30 or 40 iraqis, rounds not even hitting them (just displacement force tearing half their heads off), I bet you'll love combat. |
| 20:54.43 | jm_ul|w | explosives guys.... did they have their own group or did every unit have an explosives expert? |
| 20:55.46 | dataw0lf | we had a couple ord guys, but we were attack pathfinders (penetration, secure, extraction) |
| 20:56.20 | dataw0lf | we had a squad of SF guys with our platoon, I think they had an ord guy, but I don't think he ever did anything like movie jawesome or anything. |
| 20:56.36 | mindjuju | ... and on that note, Halo 2 lan party (aka kick dataw0lf's butt) when and where? |
| 20:58.51 | dataw0lf | good question, sir. |
| 21:00.56 | macnewbold | dataw0lf: it sounds like you and me need to head up to a gun range one of these days, and "play" with some of your "toys"... do you own or have possession of any guns? |
| 21:01.32 | dataw0lf | macnewbold: gots a ar15, grabbing a glock 23 (.40) sometime. |
| 21:01.44 | dataw0lf | my dad is got a mini 14 he might let me buy off him too. |
| 21:01.48 | dataw0lf | s/is/has |
| 21:01.49 | macnewbold | cool |
| 21:02.20 | dataw0lf | macnewbold: what do you own? |
| 21:02.33 | macnewbold | my buddy with the m16 was in charge of the armory for their group, in the Nat. Guard, I think. |
| 21:02.36 | macnewbold | I don't own any |
| 21:02.43 | macnewbold | but I enjoy shooting them |
| 21:02.44 | dataw0lf | I was thinking about getting one of them cheap russian mass produced vintage ww2 rifles. |
| 21:02.50 | macnewbold | sweet |
| 21:02.51 | dataw0lf | they're really cheap. |
| 21:03.01 | macnewbold | do they work well? |
| 21:03.08 | dataw0lf | apparently, I've heard good things. |
| 21:03.15 | dataw0lf | and the ammo is supposed to be dirt cheap. |
| 21:04.41 | dataw0lf | mosin-nagant, those are the ones |
| 21:05.59 | jm_ul|w | dataw0lf: is this supposed to be a good gun (in your opinion)? I've heard good things about it. http://www.gunsamerica.com/guns/976345522.htm |
| 21:07.32 | zardinuk | dataw0lf: what sort of things did you do in Iraq? |
| 21:08.16 | dataw0lf | zardinuk: I was a 19d with air assault and pathfinder badges |
| 21:08.21 | dataw0lf | aka super bad a$$ |
| 21:08.26 | zardinuk | so what do they do? |
| 21:08.27 | dataw0lf | jm_ul|w: never fired one. |
| 21:08.36 | dataw0lf | jm_ul|w: 7.62mm, good caliber. |
| 21:08.42 | dataw0lf | (nato) |
| 21:09.14 | dataw0lf | zardinuk: I was in an attack pathfinder platoon. We rappelled from choppers, secured unsecured locations, established LZs, killed people. |
| 21:09.32 | dataw0lf | http://www.combatreform.com/attackpathfinders.htm |
| 21:09.44 | dataw0lf | somebody pasted that yesterday, it's not too bad. |
| 21:10.18 | dataw0lf | jm_ul|w: I'd go with 5.56 any day, though. |
| 21:10.35 | *** join/#uphpu drewbono_work (~drewbono_@12.109.58.174) |
| 21:10.35 | zardinuk | what operations did you take part in? |
| 21:11.10 | dataw0lf | Iraqi Freedom, Enduring Freedom, Display Deterrent and others. |
| 21:11.52 | zardinuk | was that all in Iraq? |
| 21:12.49 | dataw0lf | No, I was in Afghanistan (enduring freedom) Iraq (Iraqi Freedom) Turkey (Display Deterrent), Israel, Kuwait, etc. |
| 21:13.08 | dataw0lf | I was in a combat zone for about 2/3rds of my military career. No joke. |
| 21:13.09 | zardinuk | sounds like you were right up there on the front lines |
| 21:13.11 | dataw0lf | that's why I got the monies. |
| 21:13.19 | dataw0lf | I was in front of the front lines. |
| 21:13.20 | zardinuk | what monies? |
| 21:13.22 | dataw0lf | that's what pathfinders do |
| 21:13.35 | dataw0lf | hazard duty pay combat duty pay no taxes air assault pay etc |
| 21:14.23 | drewbono_work | dataw0lf: were the monies worth the risk? |
| 21:14.26 | dataw0lf | I don't really want to talk to you, I'm sorry. Anyone who says they want to go to combat, I can't talk agreeably with. You're misinformed and are probably dangerous. |
| 21:14.26 | zardinuk | I got a friend in special forces, he says he doesn't see much action, mostly recon |
| 21:14.53 | zardinuk | that's why most people join the army, not for monies |
| 21:14.56 | dataw0lf | SF doesn't see action. They're there to train guerilla forces (why they take a specific language) and recon |
| 21:15.01 | dataw0lf | drewbono_work: nope. |
| 21:15.06 | dataw0lf | zardinuk: really? |
| 21:15.12 | zardinuk | yes |
| 21:15.14 | dataw0lf | you must be talking to, like, all the soldiers I don't know then. |
| 21:15.19 | dataw0lf | well. |
| 21:15.23 | dataw0lf | I guess I joined to see some action. |
| 21:15.29 | dataw0lf | touche. |
| 21:15.31 | zardinuk | heh |
| 21:16.05 | dataw0lf | I get your point. Just trust me, you wouldn't want to see combat. Ever. |
| 21:17.03 | zardinuk | dataw0lf: it's not something I would enjoy seeing |
| 21:17.53 | zardinuk | you probably understand without me having to explain it, just seemed like a good thing to do at the time |
| 21:17.56 | drewbono_work | so...did anyone see that the spreadfirefox.com website got hacked? |
| 21:18.05 | dataw0lf | when you're with a bunch of guys like that, people talk about, you know, 'the brotherhood', it's different once you go through training and combat with them. |
| 21:18.07 | drewbono_work | I'm curious if anyone knows how they got in. |
| 21:19.00 | zardinuk | I'm still considering joining the navy, always wanted to be a navy pilot |
| 21:19.01 | dataw0lf | and a handful of your friends die, and everytime one of your friends die, you actually become a magnitude number to it, you realize you're in the wrong place. |
| 21:20.06 | zardinuk | well you know, seeing stuff like that can really influence your reasoning process, I can sit here and watch these videos of terrorists cutting civilians heads off and it makes me feel like we're doing the right thing by killing them |
| 21:20.36 | zardinuk | so if you saw some guy mow down a kid with his .50 cal machine gun, you may feel the opposite |
| 21:21.24 | *** part/#uphpu drewbono_work (~drewbono_@12.109.58.174) |
| 21:22.06 | dataw0lf | *shrug* Civilians happen. I'm talking about my brothers here. I don't even argue the civilian casualties anymore. |
| 21:22.40 | dataw0lf | I know that if there is a God, I'm probably going to Hell *shrug* I'm just hoping the change people's minds about what's going on over there. |
| 21:23.02 | zardinuk | why? what would lead you to believe its a lost cause? |
| 21:23.46 | dataw0lf | we're wasting lives over there. We've done this before. Eventually, another dictator will rise up. At least Saddam had Iraq incredibly secular. |
| 21:23.53 | dataw0lf | Now we have all these fundamentalists stirring it up. |
| 21:23.56 | dataw0lf | and you can't win against them. |
| 21:24.04 | dataw0lf | Insurgency is something really hard to fight. |
| 21:24.24 | dataw0lf | When we invaded, i could put a guy in my sights and say 'ok, he's got a uniform on, he's a threat, he's the enemy' and shoot him with no hesistation. |
| 21:24.33 | dataw0lf | try picking the insurgents out of a crowd. |
| 21:24.50 | dataw0lf | and they won't stop. |
| 21:24.59 | dataw0lf | would you stop if you believed your God was behind you? |
| 21:25.04 | dataw0lf | I know most of you are religious. |
| 21:25.10 | dataw0lf | I'm not, but perhaps you can relate. |
| 21:25.28 | zardinuk | I think that was the mistake we made in vietnam was trying to fight against an insurgency just like any other war, it seems like the commanders are going about things differently this time |
| 21:26.03 | zardinuk | if you stand around passing out candy to kids, and a terrorist drives a bomb up and kills 50 kids, it's pretty obvious who's on the right side |
| 21:26.37 | zardinuk | it would be nice to kill them before they blow themselves up, but I think its more of a propoganda war at this point |
| 21:27.12 | zardinuk | I heard a quote from one of these Iraqi women who lost a kid in that last bomb attack that killed all those kids, she says "May god punish the Mujahadeen" |
| 21:27.39 | dataw0lf | yeah? |
| 21:27.44 | dataw0lf | look at dataw0lf.org for some more quotes. |
| 21:27.50 | dataw0lf | from citizens. |
| 21:27.54 | zardinuk | that tells me we're winning, sure it's sad that little kids have to die but in the end it all works out for the better |
| 21:28.04 | dataw0lf | the Iraqis think we're using the kids as bait and shields. |
| 21:28.07 | dataw0lf | Alot of them do. |
| 21:28.12 | dataw0lf | You go to Iraq, it isn't a ticker tape parade. |
| 21:28.18 | dataw0lf | There are alot of people who show gratitude. |
| 21:28.24 | dataw0lf | but there's a helluva alot who don't, too. |
| 21:28.33 | zardinuk | I know, I heard it from someone else |
| 21:28.43 | dataw0lf | and it's hard to pick them out when you got shots coming in and there's a massive crowd going every which way. |
| 21:28.50 | dataw0lf | and you eventually just shoot at whatever you guess is the threat. |
| 21:28.54 | dataw0lf | maybe you're right. |
| 21:28.57 | dataw0lf | maybe you're not. |
| 21:29.08 | zardinuk | but that's the problem is the propoganda war |
| 21:29.21 | zardinuk | and it seems to me we're winning |
| 21:29.21 | dataw0lf | there's a propaganda war going on on both sides. |
| 21:29.33 | dataw0lf | I disagree. |
| 21:29.47 | zardinuk | I hear some of these conservatives in the media saying we should be fighting this like we fought WW2 |
| 21:29.54 | zardinuk | by obliterating entire cities |
| 21:29.55 | dataw0lf | When you're in the military, you're supposed to have clearly defined targets, clearly defined objectives for 'winning' |
| 21:30.06 | dataw0lf | zardinuk: we should've done that from the beginning. |
| 21:30.13 | dataw0lf | just wipe em off the map. |
| 21:30.16 | zardinuk | who? |
| 21:30.48 | dataw0lf | Every last *ahem* Arab *ahem* |
| 21:30.51 | dataw0lf | if we want to win. |
| 21:30.52 | dataw0lf | *shrug* |
| 21:32.03 | zardinuk | the alternative to genocide is a propoganda war |
| 21:32.25 | dataw0lf | the only real solution is genocide. You WON'T win a propaganda war against a fundamentalist religion. |
| 21:32.35 | zardinuk | it's not against a religion! |
| 21:32.36 | dataw0lf | Do you think a propaganda war would succeed against Mormons? I doubt it. |
| 21:32.52 | dataw0lf | yes, it is against a religion, because that's the tool WE'RE using, and that's the tool THEY'RE using. |
| 21:33.01 | dataw0lf | saying it isn't is being naive. |
| 21:33.26 | dataw0lf | you could extend it to 'culture versus culture' |
| 21:33.32 | zardinuk | no, many people can understand that these guys are just murdering people... there is no reason for them to kill babies, I heard Al Queda was denying that last horrible attack |
| 21:33.33 | dataw0lf | but it basically boils down to religion. |
| 21:33.44 | zardinuk | its radical fundamentalism |
| 21:33.52 | zardinuk | and even then, I find it hard to call it fundamentalism |
| 21:34.14 | dataw0lf | well, you can call it whatever you want. They're using religion as a tool in a similar way to the Bush administration. |
| 21:34.38 | dataw0lf | i.e., pander to the religions beliefs, it's easy. |
| 21:34.38 | zardinuk | What do you mean by that? |
| 21:34.44 | zardinuk | like what? freedom? |
| 21:34.44 | dataw0lf | they think they're being invaded |
| 21:34.52 | dataw0lf | they think they are owed their holy land. |
| 21:35.04 | dataw0lf | they think we are basically trying to dissolve their religion. |
| 21:35.07 | dataw0lf | we're the infidels. |
| 21:35.13 | dataw0lf | Now, let's say the chinese invaded the U.S. |
| 21:35.17 | dataw0lf | I hate Bush. |
| 21:35.19 | dataw0lf | I HATE him |
| 21:35.21 | dataw0lf | HATE HATE HATE |
| 21:35.21 | zardinuk | you're assuming that every arab is a "radical fundamentalist" terrorist |
| 21:35.32 | dataw0lf | but I'm not going to let some chinese guy take my country away from me. |
| 21:35.36 | dataw0lf | even if they tell me it's for the better. |
| 21:35.43 | dataw0lf | what do they know about better for me, eh? |
| 21:35.46 | dataw0lf | they might believe it. |
| 21:35.49 | dataw0lf | I sure as hell don't. |
| 21:36.05 | dataw0lf | zardinuk: I'm just approaching it from your regular Joe Schmo, I think you're missing the point. |
| 21:36.11 | dataw0lf | Anyone who knows me knows I don't believe that. |
| 21:36.14 | zardinuk | A lot of people in Iraq were around when Saddam Hussein took their country, and I'm sure most of them understand how a Democracy works |
| 21:36.29 | dataw0lf | how is democracy better than X, though? |
| 21:36.33 | dataw0lf | because we say it's better? |
| 21:36.45 | dataw0lf | how does a western culture influence another alien culture with our social and political values? |
| 21:36.48 | zardinuk | yes, it's better |
| 21:36.50 | zardinuk | everybody knows its better |
| 21:36.54 | dataw0lf | you're wrong. |
| 21:36.56 | jm_ul|w | dataw0lf: maybe you can't answer this question...if not thats cool.... what is the highest altitude you ever had to do your job as an attack pathfinder? |
| 21:37.11 | dataw0lf | jm_ul|w: huh. |
| 21:37.13 | dataw0lf | good question. |
| 21:37.17 | dataw0lf | We were really low. |
| 21:37.21 | dataw0lf | (I was air assault, remember) |
| 21:37.35 | dataw0lf | at the most 6k, I want to say, but I'm not sure. |
| 21:37.52 | dataw0lf | zardinuk: the majority of the world, in fact, doesn't know it's better. |
| 21:37.53 | jm_ul|w | yeah...but wasn't afghanistan....uh... the mountains pretty high? |
| 21:38.02 | zardinuk | dataw0lf: yeah they do |
| 21:38.04 | dataw0lf | jm_ul|w: I'm talking about relative altitude here. |
| 21:38.13 | dataw0lf | zardinuk: what's the population of China? |
| 21:38.17 | zardinuk | look whats happening in Iran right now |
| 21:38.30 | dataw0lf | dude, I'm sorry, you can't argue that. |
| 21:38.33 | zardinuk | look what happened when China regained control over Hong Kong |
| 21:38.45 | zardinuk | there were protests |
| 21:38.48 | dataw0lf | I personally think a socialist democracy is in everyone's best interest. |
| 21:38.58 | zardinuk | well there you go! |
| 21:39.04 | dataw0lf | but that's me. |
| 21:39.06 | zardinuk | but it's the people who decide to be socialist |
| 21:39.11 | zardinuk | thats whats important |
| 21:39.15 | dataw0lf | right. |
| 21:39.28 | dataw0lf | did the people in Iraq decide to be democratic? |
| 21:39.34 | zardinuk | so capitalism, socialism, communism whatever, that has nothing to do with totalitarianism vs democracy |
| 21:39.35 | dataw0lf | or, like, did a super power invade their country? |
| 21:39.46 | dataw0lf | zardinuk: I was saying I do agree with democracy. |
| 21:39.51 | dataw0lf | But not everyone does. |
| 21:39.57 | zardinuk | Well the people of Iraq can choose a theocracy for all we care |
| 21:39.57 | dataw0lf | and not every culture can make it work. |
| 21:40.08 | dataw0lf | Islam is not suited for a democracy. |
| 21:40.31 | dataw0lf | it won't work. |
| 21:40.33 | dataw0lf | we wasted lives. |
| 21:40.35 | dataw0lf | alot of people died. |
| 21:40.40 | dataw0lf | it will go back to a dictatorship in about 10-15 years. |
| 21:40.45 | dataw0lf | (after we give them alot of weapons) |
| 21:40.50 | dataw0lf | and then we'll have to sacrifice more lives. |
| 21:41.23 | zardinuk | what is the biggest problem in the world today? |
| 21:41.33 | dataw0lf | major corporations. |
| 21:41.36 | zardinuk | hah |
| 21:41.42 | zardinuk | I was hoping you'd say global warming |
| 21:41.46 | zardinuk | but just as good |
| 21:41.57 | zardinuk | how have major corporations made your life worse? |
| 21:42.00 | dataw0lf | well, honestly, I believe religion is the biggest problem in the world. |
| 21:42.06 | dataw0lf | but I thought that might offend some people. |
| 21:42.31 | zardinuk | it's only a problem from your perspective, I'm not a religious person but I don't share your sentiments at all |
| 21:42.33 | dataw0lf | how have major corporations made my life worse? I live in the U.S.A., I have no room to complain about my living conditions at all. |
| 21:42.46 | dataw0lf | zardinuk: organized religion, rather. |
| 21:42.55 | zardinuk | why don't you explain how wal mart has made the world a worse place to live |
| 21:43.30 | zardinuk | I think the problem is world peace |
| 21:43.38 | dataw0lf | wow, that's a generalized, hippie statement. |
| 21:43.52 | zardinuk | most of the world is in peace except the middle east, and parts of africa |
| 21:44.02 | dataw0lf | really? take a walk on the south side of Chicago. |
| 21:44.10 | dataw0lf | or downtown Frankfurt. |
| 21:44.13 | dataw0lf | or downtown Amsterdam. |
| 21:44.16 | dataw0lf | or Gary, Indiana. |
| 21:44.24 | dataw0lf | or the slums of Paris. |
| 21:44.27 | dataw0lf | or Rome. |
| 21:44.30 | dataw0lf | you tell me that again. |
| 21:44.39 | zardinuk | so, are you blaming poverty on major corporations? |
| 21:45.00 | dataw0lf | I'm blaming poverty on the influence corporations have over the government. |
| 21:45.03 | dataw0lf | so, yeah. |
| 21:45.20 | dataw0lf | you keep on saying false statements, than, like making another false statement. |
| 21:45.24 | dataw0lf | stick with one and argue it out. |
| 21:45.32 | dataw0lf | I can put you to the ropes if I have to. |
| 21:45.45 | zardinuk | I haven't made any false statements |
| 21:45.52 | dataw0lf | zardinuk most of the world is in peace except the middle east, and parts of africa |
| 21:45.56 | zardinuk | and besides, you're only sharing your opinion with me |
| 21:46.15 | zardinuk | yeah, I'm not talking about crime |
| 21:46.27 | dataw0lf | crime is a symptom. |
| 21:46.33 | zardinuk | I grew up in east long beach, heart of the ghetto man, I know what crime is |
| 21:46.49 | dataw0lf | I grew up on the south east side of Chicago and the middle of Gary, I know crime is too. |
| 21:47.02 | zardinuk | People got shot and killed at my high school at least once a year, but that's a different problem |
| 21:47.06 | dataw0lf | *what |
| 21:47.14 | dataw0lf | well, I'm not going to get into a pissing contest of who had it rougher. |
| 21:47.31 | zardinuk | ok, just put crime aside, thats a perpetual problem |
| 21:47.38 | dataw0lf | not necessarily. |
| 21:47.41 | zardinuk | you can't expect people to all behave perfectly |
| 21:47.55 | dataw0lf | how do you know? we haven't really tried. |
| 21:48.00 | dataw0lf | again, corporations. |
| 21:48.06 | dataw0lf | prison $$$ |
| 21:48.08 | zardinuk | haha, what? |
| 21:48.30 | zardinuk | you are trying to pin everything on corporations, for no apparent reason either |
| 21:48.52 | dataw0lf | I think we've been seeing a rather disturbing trend lately: the middle class is disappearing. |
| 21:48.56 | dataw0lf | what do you attribute that to? |
| 21:49.07 | dataw0lf | and what do you think happens when the U.S.'s oil reserves run out? |
| 21:49.23 | dataw0lf | I'm voting on Mad Max stylistics, cuz that's how I roll. |
| 21:49.26 | zardinuk | you're jumping around to different subjects |
| 21:49.34 | dataw0lf | yeah, I'm pulling a zardinuk, so what. |
| 21:49.39 | zardinuk | I can't explain everything to you |
| 21:49.52 | dataw0lf | you don't have to. You sound like you've been cloistered for most your life. |
| 21:50.09 | dataw0lf | which, I mean, is cool. |
| 21:50.33 | zardinuk | you like to put labels on people |
| 21:50.44 | dataw0lf | technical term would be 'ad hominem' |
| 21:51.08 | dataw0lf | Yes, google is your friend. |
| 21:51.16 | zardinuk | look, you have it made here in the US and you can't see why that is |
| 21:51.24 | dataw0lf | I know I have it made in the US! |
| 21:51.28 | dataw0lf | No kidding. |
| 21:51.34 | dataw0lf | I love the US. |
| 21:51.36 | dataw0lf | I'm a patriot. |
| 21:51.39 | dataw0lf | a HUGE patriot. |
| 21:51.43 | zardinuk | you could make it into the middle class, I tire of talking to people like you who think you're supressed |
| 21:51.49 | dataw0lf | haha. |
| 21:51.52 | dataw0lf | I'm in the middle class. |
| 21:51.54 | dataw0lf | I think. |
| 21:51.56 | dataw0lf | 55k / year |
| 21:52.00 | dataw0lf | plus contracts. |
| 21:52.04 | zardinuk | no way, that is so not middle class |
| 21:52.12 | zardinuk | middle class is like 10mil/year |
| 21:52.22 | zardinuk | upper class is the people who have 10 billion in the bank |
| 21:52.32 | zardinuk | I know you hate to hear it but you're lower class |
| 21:52.40 | dataw0lf | that sounds like your regular republican speech. |
| 21:52.45 | dataw0lf | *shrug* so, I'm lower class. |
| 21:52.50 | zardinuk | but you're happy |
| 21:52.51 | dataw0lf | you should see me, I definitely look like a punk. |
| 21:53.05 | zardinuk | who the hell cares if less people are in the middle class? What about all the peons? they have jobs don't they? |
| 21:53.20 | dataw0lf | what happens is, when the middle class continues to shrink. |
| 21:53.24 | dataw0lf | the gap becomes wider. |
| 21:53.25 | dataw0lf | between |
| 21:53.32 | zardinuk | you take this left wing propoganda to heart, it doesn't even apply, to anybody |
| 21:53.32 | dataw0lf | poor people |
| 21:53.34 | dataw0lf | and |
| 21:53.35 | dataw0lf | rich people |
| 21:53.41 | dataw0lf | I'm saying this slowly for yah. |
| 21:54.02 | dataw0lf | when this happens, you start to replicate a system where you have 'nobility' and, like you said, 'peons' |
| 21:54.21 | zardinuk | can you accept your role as a peon? |
| 21:54.26 | dataw0lf | No, I can't. |
| 21:54.42 | dataw0lf | that's why I'm taking the fight to the Man, you know. THE MAN! |
| 21:54.47 | zardinuk | well then you will have a hard life |
| 21:55.25 | dataw0lf | although, I must say, if you said I was a peon to my face, in real life, I'd probably be.. well.. reactive. |
| 21:55.31 | dataw0lf | as some could attest to. |
| 21:55.34 | dataw0lf | I'm an emotional person! |
| 21:55.38 | dataw0lf | Crazy! |
| 21:55.51 | zardinuk | every time in history anybody has taken up arms against the bourgeoisie, it has been bad for everyone |
| 21:56.09 | zardinuk | you hate the man, I get it |
| 21:56.19 | dataw0lf | zardinuk: you're right, the founding of our country, very bad. |
| 21:56.22 | zardinuk | you're a jelouse type, you want all the riches |
| 21:56.24 | dataw0lf | Terrible sir, terrible. |
| 21:56.35 | dataw0lf | but call me a peon again. |
| 21:56.40 | zardinuk | the founding of our country was something different |
| 21:56.50 | mindjuju | k, break it up, ya'll are getting personal here |
| 21:56.56 | zardinuk | if you can't see the difference then you need to re-read your history books |
| 21:56.58 | mindjuju | everybody back to their corners for 30 sec break |
| 21:57.08 | dataw0lf | nah, let him call me a peon again. |
| 21:57.10 | mindjuju | and come back out with your hand ready |
| 21:57.27 | zardinuk | you're a grunt |
| 21:57.33 | dataw0lf | good enough. |
| 21:57.34 | zardinuk | working class |
| 21:57.40 | dataw0lf | :] |
| 21:57.41 | zardinuk | maggot |
| 21:57.53 | mindjuju | what are you pickin' a fight zardinuk? |
| 21:57.57 | zardinuk | you need to understand that you're not the middle class |
| 21:58.02 | mindjuju | layoff |
| 21:58.10 | dataw0lf | the fight has already been picked. |
| 21:58.13 | dataw0lf | *shrug* |
| 21:58.15 | zardinuk | no, he knows what I'm talkin about |
| 21:58.32 | mindjuju | i'm not sure you know what your talking about Z. Have you seen forbes 100 richest |
| 21:58.39 | mindjuju | there aren't that many that are past 1 billion |
| 21:58.39 | zardinuk | yes |
| 21:58.48 | zardinuk | those are the royalty though, upper class |
| 21:58.59 | zardinuk | people that never have to work, and their kids never have to work |
| 21:59.10 | zardinuk | but what're you gonna do? Go in their house with an army and take all their money? |
| 21:59.29 | mindjuju | was he saying that? |
| 21:59.36 | mindjuju | no, he's talking a different point |
| 21:59.47 | zardinuk | are you? |
| 21:59.51 | zardinuk | let him speak |
| 21:59.54 | dataw0lf | it doesn't matter. I'm probably not going to come to any meetings zardinuk is at for a while though, he. |
| 21:59.55 | dataw0lf | heh* |
| 22:00.04 | dataw0lf | unless kryp71k|w is with me so he can leash me up. |
| 22:00.16 | dataw0lf | but I need to go smoke a cigarette, my nerves are on end. |
| 22:00.38 | mindjuju | go smoke DW, i gots to talk to Z for a bit |
| 22:01.13 | mindjuju | K, Z. What's going on, dude? |
| 22:01.41 | mindjuju | Datawolf and i always have civil discourse, but it has never gotten out of hand |
| 22:01.58 | zardinuk | mindjuju: hah, you're makin a big deal out of nothin |
| 22:02.12 | zardinuk | dataw0lf and I were having a political conversation |
| 22:02.14 | kryp71k|w | no my brotha ... you don't know d-dub like I do |
| 22:02.25 | mindjuju | Now, i don't agree with DW all the time, but he brings up some valid points. |
| 22:03.00 | zardinuk | well what're you trying to stymie the debate for? |
| 22:03.16 | mindjuju | cause your takin' it to a personal level |
| 22:03.23 | mindjuju | your not fighting clean |
| 22:03.23 | zardinuk | oh I was? |
| 22:03.33 | mindjuju | yeah, calling him a grunt or a peon |
| 22:03.41 | mindjuju | if it had been me, i'd have been pissed too |
| 22:04.06 | zardinuk | lol, he isn't pissed |
| 22:04.19 | kryp71k|w | `/me looks at Z amazed |
| 22:04.22 | kryp71k|w | gah! |
| 22:04.27 | kryp71k|w | that was an IRC fart |
| 22:04.32 | jm_ul|w | heh |
| 22:04.50 | zardinuk | look who here knows what a middle class citizen makes? |
| 22:05.00 | zardinuk | CEO's |
| 22:05.07 | zardinuk | who thinks they're middle class? |
| 22:05.17 | mindjuju | and just an FYI, before you go spouting conservative rhetoric, you'd better do your research cause i can guarantee DW has |
| 22:05.30 | kryp71k|w | tru dis |
| 22:05.32 | zardinuk | it is very common for people to think they're middle class, 50% of the working class does |
| 22:05.40 | dataw0lf | I'm back. |
| 22:05.47 | dataw0lf | 50 thousand to 250 thousand is middle class |
| 22:05.53 | dataw0lf | 250 thousand to 500 thousand is middle class. |
| 22:05.56 | dataw0lf | and you're a retard. |
| 22:06.03 | kryp71k|w | hhehe |
| 22:06.04 | dataw0lf | err 250-500 is upper middle |
| 22:06.05 | zardinuk | no, that's doctor salary |
| 22:06.14 | zardinuk | that's UPPER WORKING CLASS |
| 22:06.17 | dataw0lf | actually, that's net worth I'm talking about |
| 22:06.25 | dataw0lf | and look up middle class before you start teaching me economics |
| 22:06.48 | zardinuk | lol, DW knows his stuff eh |
| 22:06.51 | mindjuju | k, Z, yeah, i'm going to need to see your definitions in print somewhere before I argue the point of middle class further |
| 22:07.05 | mindjuju | cause your way way off |
| 22:07.14 | dataw0lf | and, yes, you did indeed piss me off. |
| 22:07.16 | mindjuju | i know you just told me you majored business, but i have a feeling your way off |
| 22:07.24 | zardinuk | its in a book at home sompace, you can look it up |
| 22:07.28 | dataw0lf | and I won't be coming to any meetings you're at because I have a quick tongue and am pretty hot headed. |
| 22:07.32 | mindjuju | nah, you show me |
| 22:07.40 | dataw0lf | look |
| 22:07.41 | dataw0lf | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_class |
| 22:07.42 | dataw0lf | READ |
| 22:07.43 | zardinuk | no, you show me |
| 22:09.05 | mindjuju | k, Z here you go |
| 22:09.06 | mindjuju | http://www.forbes.com/lists/results.jhtml?passListId=10&passYear=2004&passListType=Person&searchParameter1=unset&searchParameter2=unset&resultsStart=1&resultsHowMany=25&resultsSortProperties=%2Bnumberfield1%2C%2Bstringfield2&resultsSortCategoryName=Rank&passKeyword=&category1=category&category2=category |
| 22:09.11 | mindjuju | that's forbes richest |
| 22:09.16 | dataw0lf | you have to take a look at what middle means. |
| 22:09.25 | dataw0lf | that's why, you know, economics and math are so closely related. |
| 22:09.28 | zardinuk | k, I'll show you guys, hold on |
| 22:09.28 | mindjuju | and there are only 522 people over 1 bill |
| 22:09.38 | mindjuju | so i guess you are saying upper class is only 522 |
| 22:09.43 | mindjuju | people |
| 22:09.45 | zardinuk | but according to your definitino, 1/3 of the country should be upper class? |
| 22:09.58 | mindjuju | did i say 33%? |
| 22:10.02 | dataw0lf | who said that? |
| 22:10.08 | dataw0lf | middle doesn't mean 33%. |
| 22:10.12 | dataw0lf | that's one hell of a leap of logic |
| 22:10.16 | dataw0lf | good job. |
| 22:10.17 | zardinuk | 1:1:1 |
| 22:10.21 | zardinuk | that's what you're saying |
| 22:10.22 | dataw0lf | Not necessarily. |
| 22:10.32 | dataw0lf | the middle doesn't have to equal the top or bottom, what are you talking about. |
| 22:10.46 | dataw0lf | middle, in fact, could == median |
| 22:10.47 | dataw0lf | no? |
| 22:10.51 | mindjuju | he's right, its not a percentage of the whole, it is an income bracket |
| 22:10.55 | mindjuju | DW is right |
| 22:11.04 | zardinuk | you're advocating socialism |
| 22:11.10 | mindjuju | what! |
| 22:11.14 | zardinuk | when are things good enough for you? |
| 22:11.15 | mindjuju | we're talking about who is middle class |
| 22:11.15 | dataw0lf | are you abot? |
| 22:11.22 | mindjuju | your brain's gone soft Z! |
| 22:11.24 | dataw0lf | are you like some sort of troll bot? |
| 22:11.36 | zardinuk | look, scroll back guys, datawolf says the middle class is shrinking |
| 22:11.39 | dataw0lf | you haven't made much sense since you started, and you're losing any resemblance to sanity you might have. |
| 22:11.48 | zardinuk | I'm telling him that the polls he looks at were probably design to scare him |
| 22:11.49 | mindjuju | yeah, by shrinking he means there are less in that bracket |
| 22:12.00 | dataw0lf | omg |
| 22:12.03 | zardinuk | by categorizing the middle class as people who make 500k-10 mil |
| 22:12.04 | mindjuju | not that the bracket itself is shrinking, just fewer people |
| 22:12.23 | Utah_Dave | maybe this conversation should be held in #politics |
| 22:12.30 | zardinuk | yes, and I'm explaining that things for the average american are getting better |
| 22:12.34 | dataw0lf | sorry, Utah_Dave |
| 22:12.43 | zardinuk | regardless of the middle class |
| 22:12.50 | dataw0lf | I'm done, can't argue with my lessers, it's unbecoming. |
| 22:13.29 | Utah_Dave | I know we're pretty loose on topics in here, but usually we're talking about something directly to technology! |
| 22:13.46 | zardinuk | Hey, it's a friday |
| 22:13.54 | zardinuk | I don't have much work to do |
| 22:14.10 | dataw0lf | kryp71k|w: no need for a ride, today. |
| 22:14.14 | mindjuju | sadly i have to finish up the CSS on this page |
| 22:14.27 | dataw0lf | I think I'm about to leave. |
| 22:14.29 | mindjuju | but i do want to find you a quick report Z from Rand |
| 22:14.33 | kryp71k|w | kool ... I'm taking a nap as soon as I get home |
| 22:14.36 | dataw0lf | Don't take it to hard if I knock your teeth out a meeting.. or something zardinuk |
| 22:14.37 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 22:14.42 | mindjuju | it's about the middle class and education |
| 22:14.54 | zardinuk | dataw0lf: You go ahead and try ;) |
| 22:15.02 | kryp71k|w | pshhh ... hahahaha |
| 22:15.18 | kryp71k|w | zardinuk : obviously you don't know dataw0lf like I do |
| 22:15.20 | zardinuk | what is with this smack talk? |
| 22:15.42 | zardinuk | kryp71k|w: you sound like you're in high school still |
| 22:15.47 | dataw0lf | hahaha |
| 22:15.54 | kryp71k|w | I am ... gosh! |
| 22:15.56 | mindjuju | Z, you've been asking for it. here is the Rand report |
| 22:15.57 | mindjuju | http://www.rand.org/publications/CAE/CAE100/ |
| 22:16.04 | dataw0lf | zardinuk: I'm not a big guy. |
| 22:16.08 | dataw0lf | but I'd probably throw you around. |
| 22:16.14 | dataw0lf | kryp71k is A HUGE guy. |
| 22:16.16 | dataw0lf | and very scary. |
| 22:16.17 | dataw0lf | bouncer type. |
| 22:16.19 | zardinuk | Where's my posey? |
| 22:16.22 | dataw0lf | and he bounce you off the wall. |
| 22:16.25 | dataw0lf | he'd* |
| 22:16.27 | mindjuju | synopsis, middle class is ripping in half by lack of education. |
| 22:16.30 | kryp71k|w | and I still have a hard time wrestling d-dub |
| 22:16.39 | dataw0lf | well, that's cause I'm crazy and hardcore. |
| 22:16.59 | dataw0lf | and well trained and practiced in hurting people. |
| 22:17.02 | zardinuk | how much can you bench? ;) |
| 22:17.04 | kryp71k|w | ;) |
| 22:17.07 | kryp71k|w | me? |
| 22:17.10 | zardinuk | either of you |
| 22:17.11 | dataw0lf | oh, probably on 215 myself. |
| 22:17.14 | dataw0lf | *only |
| 22:17.19 | dataw0lf | well, that was a year ago, probably less. |
| 22:17.22 | dataw0lf | benching doesn't matter though. |
| 22:17.30 | zardinuk | suuure |
| 22:17.32 | kryp71k|w | 320 max |
| 22:17.34 | dataw0lf | I have a penchant for hurting people who could probably bench 10 of me. |
| 22:17.35 | dataw0lf | seriously. |
| 22:17.40 | kryp71k|w | ususally 250 though |
| 22:17.42 | dataw0lf | zardinuk: no, no, you think I'm all talk. |
| 22:18.00 | dataw0lf | but ask tierra and kryp71k|w, they've seen me angry, and fighting at bars. |
| 22:18.00 | Utah_Dave | later, everyone |
| 22:18.01 | *** part/#uphpu Utah_Dave (~boucha@0-1pool138-158.nas28.salt-lake-city1.ut.us.da.qwest.net) |
| 22:18.06 | zardinuk | you talk a lot |
| 22:18.09 | dataw0lf | I sure do. |
| 22:18.14 | dataw0lf | but I'm willing to back it up, every cent. |
| 22:18.22 | dataw0lf | with anyone. |
| 22:18.23 | zardinuk | ooo, a bar fighter! |
| 22:18.26 | dataw0lf | I will fight anyone. any day. |
| 22:18.31 | dataw0lf | but that's how I am *shrug* |
| 22:18.38 | kryp71k|w | zardinuk ... how old are you? |
| 22:18.42 | zardinuk | well, I told you a while back that you and me have more in common than you know, didn't I dataw0lf? |
| 22:18.48 | zardinuk | 23 |
| 22:18.53 | dataw0lf | oh, jeez, he's my age. |
| 22:18.56 | kryp71k|w | pshh .. |
| 22:19.00 | dataw0lf | he'd be dead, he doesn't even have the old man strength. |
| 22:19.08 | kryp71k|w | I do |
| 22:19.11 | dataw0lf | oh, man. |
| 22:19.11 | kryp71k|w | :D |
| 22:19.16 | dataw0lf | kryp71k|w is my roommate, btw. |
| 22:19.41 | dataw0lf | I'm like 5'9 or something. |
| 22:19.43 | zardinuk | so quit talkin, you sound like a child |
| 22:19.46 | dataw0lf | and, only, like 160 lbs. |
| 22:19.48 | kryp71k|w | and I'm 240 pounds of meat .... BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA |
| 22:19.57 | zardinuk | I love it when some shorty starts talkin about what he's gonna do to me |
| 22:20.04 | dataw0lf | omg |
| 22:20.11 | dataw0lf | oh wow. |
| 22:20.18 | zardinuk | oh my gosh! |
| 22:20.27 | zardinuk | haha, you guys crack me up |
| 22:21.16 | zardinuk | dataw0lf wants to come see me |
| 22:21.22 | zardinuk | for the record he has my work address |
| 22:21.34 | dataw0lf | kryp71k|w: ride. |
| 22:21.47 | kryp71k|w | :D |
| 22:22.37 | *** topic/#uphpu by macnewbold -> July presenter found! zardinuk will be taking on dataw0lf for your viewing pleasure! |
| 22:22.43 | zardinuk | lol |
| 22:23.21 | mindjuju | i'm still in favor of a Halo 2 lan party at linux networks |
| 22:24.17 | kryp71k|w | oh ya, btw, dataw0lf : we got the hookup from SLCC on projection LCD's ... ;) we should get two of em |
| 22:24.20 | tierra | is there more than one projector? |
| 22:24.36 | kryp71k|w | they just replaced like 10 of em |
| 22:24.56 | kryp71k|w | My teacher's got the hook-up, I'll talk to him |
| 22:26.26 | kryp71k|w | and there's a party tonight at my boy, Jake's house .. we should all goez! |
| 22:26.53 | *** topic/#uphpu by macnewbold -> July presentation found! zardinuk will be taking on dataw0lf for your viewing pleasure! |
| 22:26.54 | zardinuk | dataw0lf can't make it up here because he needs a ride from his friend, awwwwww |
| 22:27.21 | macnewbold | kryp71k|w: how much they charging for the projectors? |
| 22:27.26 | macnewbold | and are they in good shape? |
| 22:27.55 | dataw0lf | tierra, kryp71k|w: I'm probably going back to jail tonight, this guy won't stop. |
| 22:28.16 | dataw0lf | kryp71k|w: money under my bed for bail, so tierra won't have to bail me out again. |
| 22:28.47 | tierra | heh |
| 22:28.49 | dataw0lf | cya guys :] |
| 22:28.55 | kryp71k|w | hah ... |
| 22:28.58 | tierra | which guy? |
| 22:28.58 | zardinuk | why don't you call the hospital and tell em you're on your way |
| 22:29.03 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 22:29.07 | macnewbold | yeah, zardinuk, that's funny |
| 22:29.12 | kryp71k|w | macnewbold : I don't know how much yet |
| 22:29.17 | kryp71k|w | I'll let ya know though |
| 22:29.22 | macnewbold | sweet, thanks |
| 22:29.42 | macnewbold | if they're reasonable (<$500) for used projectors, I'll probably get one |
| 22:29.52 | macnewbold | as long as the bulb is still good :) |
| 22:29.58 | tierra | was "Utah_Dave" that was in here earlier Dave Turnbull? |
| 22:30.01 | macnewbold | bulbs alone can be several hundred bugs |
| 22:30.13 | macnewbold | tierra: Utah_Dave is David Boucha, not turnbull |
| 22:30.19 | tierra | ah, k |
| 22:30.20 | kryp71k|w | ah man ... either I spend 2 days completely re-writing this page, or I just hack up a mess of script ... hmmmmmm |
| 22:30.24 | macnewbold | I don't think I ever saw turnbull use IRC |
| 22:30.36 | kryp71k|w | ya, the bulbs are still goot |
| 22:30.46 | tierra | yeah, didn't think so, but it raised an eyebrow |
| 22:31.25 | kryp71k|w | zardinuk ... I think zanderloft is easier to type ... |
| 22:32.52 | zardinuk | you guys are like a little gang of kids, you and the roomies |
| 22:34.15 | *** join/#uphpu bradym (bradym@bradym.agsci.usu.edu) |
| 22:35.05 | kryp71k|w | :D |
| 22:35.10 | macnewbold | zardinuk: you're the one acting childish |
| 22:35.21 | zardinuk | yeah? howso? |
| 22:35.28 | macnewbold | oh, please |
| 22:35.36 | zardinuk | oh please what? |
| 22:35.39 | macnewbold | would you be offended if I asked your age? |
| 22:35.48 | zardinuk | they already asked, I'm 23 |
| 22:35.51 | macnewbold | ah |
| 22:35.56 | macnewbold | okay, that explains it |
| 22:36.07 | kryp71k|w | been on a mission or in the army? |
| 22:36.08 | zardinuk | dataw0lf is the instigator here, not me, buddy |
| 22:36.19 | macnewbold | the way you argue with everyone about everything, you're acting about 15, if that |
| 22:36.32 | zardinuk | what do you mean "the way I argue"? |
| 22:36.42 | macnewbold | "too much" |
| 22:36.45 | macnewbold | "don't know when to quit" |
| 22:36.55 | macnewbold | "can't let a dead horse lie" |
| 22:36.56 | zardinuk | perhaps I argue a lot |
| 22:37.05 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 22:37.06 | macnewbold | yeah |
| 22:37.08 | zardinuk | but I let the arguement die, TWICE |
| 22:37.12 | macnewbold | uhuh |
| 22:37.13 | macnewbold | yeah |
| 22:37.16 | zardinuk | he wants to keep bringing it up |
| 22:37.17 | macnewbold | that's why it stayed so dead |
| 22:37.20 | macnewbold | yeah |
| 22:37.21 | macnewbold | whatever |
| 22:37.23 | zardinuk | so don't point the finger at me, buddy |
| 22:37.25 | macnewbold | blame him if you want |
| 22:37.44 | dataw0lf | alright, i can't take the company truck. |
| 22:37.47 | dataw0lf | so I'm a wuss. |
| 22:37.50 | zardinuk | he's the one driving over here, telling me he's gonna shoot me and stuff, lol |
| 22:37.51 | macnewbold | you're not "letting it die" if you go out with an inflammatory remark |
| 22:38.19 | zardinuk | oh, there he is |
| 22:38.20 | macnewbold | I'm not saying you wouldn't deserve it... ;) |
| 22:38.20 | dataw0lf | besides, you're not worth it. |
| 22:38.33 | dataw0lf | I have court on August 10th, I can't get in anymore trouble. |
| 22:38.43 | zardinuk | I find it funny that an argument always leads to physical threats with you, dataw0lf |
| 22:38.44 | kryp71k|w | it's like the microsoft punk you landed at the bar ... |
| 22:38.46 | dataw0lf | (if tierra wants the money he bailed me out with last time) |
| 22:38.48 | kryp71k|w | good times |
| 22:39.10 | dataw0lf | macnewbold, I've argued with you quite a bit, no? |
| 22:39.12 | kryp71k|w | 'ts called testosterone |
| 22:39.16 | tierra | yes, and I would like that money back at some point |
| 22:39.24 | kryp71k|w | haha |
| 22:39.33 | dataw0lf | I don't think I've ever gotten into a fight with macnewbold, or even led up to any sort of 'virtual physical confrontation' |
| 22:39.35 | kryp71k|w | tierra : wanna go to jakes tonight? |
| 22:39.38 | dataw0lf | same with mindjuju |
| 22:39.43 | dataw0lf | cycoboy |
| 22:39.51 | zardinuk | hey neither have I, mac is a nice guy I got nothing against him |
| 22:39.52 | mindjuju | nah, DW and i alway talk and it never gets physical. Z, let's face it, you don't know your rhetoric, you got scared, you started to get personal |
| 22:39.53 | dataw0lf | well, just bout everyone cept for you. |
| 22:40.08 | mindjuju | no biggie, just back down now and we'll forget about it |
| 22:40.18 | tierra | haha |
| 22:40.19 | mindjuju | just don't pipe up unless you've studied, k |
| 22:40.35 | tierra | kryp71k|w, not sure... |
| 22:40.40 | zardinuk | look mindjuju: the other day dataw0lf flung some far far FAR more personal insults at me, I can take it |
| 22:40.54 | dataw0lf | zardinuk: I apologize for allowing it to get to 'physical threats'. I'm just in a bad mood. |
| 22:41.01 | dataw0lf | zardinuk: when was this? |
| 22:41.07 | dataw0lf | are you the same guy who's the OOP guy? |
| 22:41.08 | zardinuk | the other day, you remember |
| 22:41.12 | zardinuk | lol |
| 22:41.15 | dataw0lf | Oh, yeah. |
| 22:41.20 | dataw0lf | You ARE a tard. |
| 22:41.29 | zardinuk | and I can see a hissy fit when I see one |
| 22:41.35 | zardinuk | you think I haven't seen that before dataw0lf? |
| 22:41.38 | dataw0lf | yeah, yeah, you're right, of course. |
| 22:41.42 | zardinuk | "I'm gonna kill you!!!" |
| 22:41.45 | dataw0lf | you got me. |
| 22:41.52 | dataw0lf | you're right, dude, you're right. |
| 22:41.59 | dataw0lf | I'm over it. |
| 22:42.08 | zardinuk | alright |
| 22:42.17 | mindjuju | man, i don't know about you guys, but I think it's come around time for Mac to give Z the big boot |
| 22:42.24 | zardinuk | look, I'm sorry if you felt me calling you a working class citizen was a personal insult |
| 22:42.28 | tierra | dataw0lf is always getting in arguments with me, not to say it's in a bad way... we just always like to argue... and dataw0lf loves to prentend he hates some programming language or something and get in an argument with someone when in fact he loves it |
| 22:42.48 | dataw0lf | I'm an instigator, but it's all in fun, but, you know, zardinuk, you just somehow rub me the wrong way. |
| 22:42.51 | dataw0lf | i can't describe it. |
| 22:42.54 | dataw0lf | Oh, yeah, you're wrong all the time. |
| 22:42.56 | dataw0lf | That's why. |
| 22:43.00 | dataw0lf | And you won't concede anything. |
| 22:43.01 | zardinuk | hey I know dataw0lf, you dont gotta explain |
| 22:43.06 | zardinuk | lol |
| 22:43.13 | tierra | hehe |
| 22:43.14 | zardinuk | and I really like to argue |
| 22:43.14 | dataw0lf | no, you really don't know me, but it's cool. |
| 22:43.44 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: Nah, i was part of that too, if you kick zardinuk, kick me too (the channel might be better! ;) ) |
| 22:44.11 | zardinuk | seriously mindjuju |
| 22:44.19 | macnewbold | dataw0lf is right... he and I have had words repeatedly (it's how we first met, in fact :) ), but never gotten anywhere near this |
| 22:44.34 | macnewbold | we have both proven our ability to act our age |
| 22:44.40 | dataw0lf | and we both will concede on issues (no matter how much it ruffles our feathers to do so) |
| 22:45.05 | zardinuk | look, what do you guys want me to concede? that OOP is inferior? |
| 22:45.14 | zardinuk | I take a position and I argue it |
| 22:45.14 | dataw0lf | no, that you're wrong. |
| 22:45.18 | zardinuk | I am not out to learn new things here |
| 22:45.26 | mindjuju | i don't think anybody wants you to concede, i think we want you to shut up |
| 22:45.27 | dataw0lf | that's the problem. |
| 22:45.52 | zardinuk | hah, mindjuju I'd like you to shut up since you contribute nothing to a good argument but emotional therapy |
| 22:45.52 | dataw0lf | when you don't want to learn new things, you won't admit defeat / inability to even defend what you've already learned. |
| 22:46.12 | dataw0lf | zardinuk: just.. yeah, let's both keep quiet. |
| 22:46.14 | mindjuju | good argument? dude your a disgrace to conservatism |
| 22:46.14 | dataw0lf | ok? |
| 22:46.37 | zardinuk | alright then |
| 22:46.44 | mindjuju | 10billion is upper middle class? |
| 22:47.03 | mindjuju | where'd you get that from? |
| 22:47.08 | mindjuju | weekly world news? |
| 22:47.08 | zardinuk | mindjuju wants to argue some more |
| 22:47.15 | macnewbold | okay, would it make everyone (except zardinuk) happy if he left the room? |
| 22:47.30 | dataw0lf | well.. yeah. |
| 22:47.34 | zardinuk | hey look, children, I'm going home |
| 22:47.37 | *** topic/#uphpu by macnewbold -> July presentation might be cancelled? |
| 22:47.55 | macnewbold | we've had about enough for one day, I think |
| 22:48.11 | macnewbold | cool, I didn't have to kick him... |
| 22:48.15 | mindjuju | whew |
| 22:48.16 | dataw0lf | sorry if I was a bit eh, over the top, there guys. |
| 22:48.36 | dataw0lf | I was actually trying to get him to leave :) |
| 22:49.05 | macnewbold | yeah, I don't think he could stay quiet in here after that, even if he was trying |
| 22:49.50 | macnewbold | well, thanks to today's events, my IRC log for this room is now about 150KB (including the last 3 days) |
| 22:49.53 | mindjuju | k, now I really have to focus and get some CSS coding done, got a hot date with the wife later and I need to finish before I go home |
| 22:49.56 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 22:49.57 | macnewbold | yeah |
| 22:50.02 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: HAWT! |
| 22:50.03 | dataw0lf | :) |
| 22:50.17 | mindjuju | yeah buddy! |
| 22:50.23 | macnewbold | unfortunately, the hot date part is preceded by tech support for a friend... :( |
| 22:50.25 | dataw0lf | lucky guys. |
| 22:50.29 | macnewbold | so I'll have to be quick |
| 22:51.03 | macnewbold | ewww, gross |
| 22:51.06 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 22:51.11 | macnewbold | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:51.15 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 22:51.22 | macnewbold | sorry, I should be more tolerant, I guess |
| 22:51.24 | dataw0lf | ;] |
| 22:51.27 | dataw0lf | you fascist! |
| 22:51.36 | macnewbold | hey man, don't start with me today |
| 22:51.42 | macnewbold | I'll knock you into next tuesday |
| 22:53.20 | macnewbold | anyway, eventful day :) |
| 22:55.36 | mindjuju | so mac |
| 22:55.51 | mindjuju | you see anything wrong with using the css methods in this page? |
| 22:55.52 | mindjuju | http://www.stunicholls.myby.co.uk/menus/drop_down.html |
| 22:55.55 | dataw0lf | hehe |
| 22:56.06 | mindjuju | the guy talks about some of the conventions being out of w3c |
| 22:56.29 | mindjuju | but works in IE and firefox, etc |
| 22:57.18 | mindjuju | the only prob is that this code is for the main nav bar so need to get it as close to 100 compatible as possible |
| 22:57.25 | mindjuju | any thoughts on it DW? |
| 22:57.49 | dataw0lf | oh, man, i couldn't design my way out of a paper bag, bro. |
| 22:59.19 | *** join/#uphpu toxs (~toxs@166.70.209.242) |
| 22:59.27 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 22:59.33 | macnewbold | it moved down the first time I rolled over anything :) |
| 22:59.38 | macnewbold | so far though, it looks good |
| 23:00.01 | mindjuju | k, so i'm going to make some mods and use it. thnx gents |
| 23:00.26 | dataw0lf | definitely some cool stuff. |
| 23:02.01 | macnewbold | hm |
| 23:02.09 | macnewbold | it requires doctype xhtml1.1 |
| 23:02.26 | macnewbold | other than the MSIE-only hacks, |
| 23:02.28 | macnewbold | it looks decent |
| 23:02.33 | macnewbold | the css isn't that bad, either |
| 23:02.40 | macnewbold | I'm not sure I get what makes it tick even :) |
| 23:03.17 | dataw0lf | me either. |
| 23:03.23 | dataw0lf | ALTHOUGH I'LL NEVER ADMIT THAT! |
| 23:39.38 | *** join/#uphpu Utah_Dave (~boucha@0-1pool138-158.nas28.salt-lake-city1.ut.us.da.qwest.net) |