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| 02:53.47 | *** topic/#uphpu is Meeting Wednesday: CSS & XHTML |
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| 14:45.59 | macnewbold | morning, all |
| 14:46.16 | *** topic/#uphpu by macnewbold -> Meeting Tomorrow (Wednesday): CSS & XHTML |
| 14:46.18 | bigdog_ut | top o' th' mornin' |
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| 15:59.39 | wps | k, so I am going to try rsync for my first time |
| 16:00.02 | *** part/#uphpu mindjuju_ (~mindjuju@216.20.238.225) |
| 16:00.04 | wps | I want to synchronize my home directory between two computers, using a remote server as an in-between |
| 16:00.28 | wps | so, I will sync to the server when I leave home… sync when I get to the office… and sync again when I get home |
| 16:01.18 | *** join/#uphpu mindjuju_ (~mindjuju@216.20.238.225) |
| 16:03.20 | wps | does this look right? |
| 16:03.21 | wps | rsync -rlHpogt /local/dir server:/remote/dir |
| 16:04.01 | *** part/#uphpu mindjuju_ (~mindjuju@216.20.238.225) |
| 16:04.04 | wps | also, does rsync delete changes as well? (menaing that it' |
| 16:04.16 | wps | (meaning that it's not just backup... but actually keeps them in sync) |
| 16:06.07 | fungus | if you use -a that will replace all that other crap you have there. |
| 16:06.22 | bigdog_ut | why not use cvs or subversion |
| 16:06.23 | bigdog_ut | ? |
| 16:06.37 | wps | cvs for syncing my home? |
| 16:06.45 | bigdog_ut | yeah why not |
| 16:06.57 | *** part/#uphpu tbye_ (~tbye@67.51.216.62) |
| 16:07.19 | fungus | cvs could be cool, but could get enormous |
| 16:07.21 | bigdog_ut | i use it for my /etc and home dir |
| 16:07.35 | fungus | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:08.06 | bigdog_ut | u dont have to put it all in cvs...just the stuff you want ot have access too |
| 16:08.34 | wps | fungus, I don't see the 'a' flag in the manual |
| 16:08.34 | fungus | wps, rsync -av /Users/wps server:/remote/dir |
| 16:08.45 | macnewbold | fungus is right |
| 16:08.50 | macnewbold | the man page talks about -a |
| 16:08.50 | fungus | -a, --archive archive mode, equivalent to -rlptgoD |
| 16:09.26 | wps | ah, there it is |
| 16:09.30 | macnewbold | my usual command is rsync -auvxz --progress --stats ./ server:dir/ |
| 16:09.31 | wps | don't I need 'r' ? |
| 16:09.34 | macnewbold | sometimes with --delete |
| 16:09.43 | macnewbold | or with --exclude |
| 16:09.45 | macnewbold | on some stuff |
| 16:09.58 | macnewbold | the -a includes -rlptgoD |
| 16:09.59 | fungus | use --delete when you want to do a real sync, and not just a copy |
| 16:10.03 | macnewbold | right |
| 16:10.14 | wps | ah, okay, 'a' includes it |
| 16:10.20 | macnewbold | the one I use also won't overwrite files that are newer than what I'm uploading |
| 16:10.31 | wps | so the --progress and --stats give you visual feedback of what is going on? |
| 16:10.33 | macnewbold | so I usually sync in both directions (since it might change on either end) |
| 16:10.35 | macnewbold | yep, they're nice |
| 16:10.40 | macnewbold | verbose, but nice |
| 16:10.56 | macnewbold | sometimes I also use -c if the times might be messed up |
| 16:11.06 | fungus | If you are sitting there it's nice, but from a cron job it is definitely *not* |
| 16:11.07 | macnewbold | but not on huge stuff, since it would take forever to checksum them all |
| 16:11.14 | macnewbold | fungus is absolutely right |
| 16:12.23 | wps | so... looking at your flags, macnewbold |
| 16:12.29 | wps | z is compress to make it faster, right? |
| 16:12.46 | fungus | bigdog_ut is the second person to recommend using cvs or svn for a home directory. Maybe I should consider it. |
| 16:13.00 | wps | x is for security? |
| 16:13.13 | wps | "-x, --one-file-system don't cross filesystem boundaries" |
| 16:13.20 | bigdog_ut | rsync is similar to rpc...so why not use cvs |
| 16:13.28 | fungus | -z will be faster over a slow link, but much slower across a lan. (CPU usage) |
| 16:13.29 | wps | if I am syncing to a remote server, do I want 'x'? |
| 16:14.21 | bigdog_ut | the archive your cvs repos |
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| 16:15.10 | fungus | -x is only necessary if you have a mountpoint in the local tree you are syncing, that you don't want to traverse. |
| 16:15.22 | wps | k |
| 16:16.13 | fungus | example: rsync / server:/backup will backup the *entire* file system. rsync -x / server:/backup will only backup the root filesystem |
| 16:16.52 | wps | k |
| 16:17.29 | fungus | bigdog_ut, do you prefer svn or cvs? |
| 16:17.33 | wps | i want delete any files on the receiving side that aren't on the sending side |
| 16:17.40 | wps | so do I need --delete? or is that in -a too? |
| 16:17.49 | bigdog_ut | cvs for now until svn is stable |
| 16:17.59 | bigdog_ut | but i am starting to move to it |
| 16:18.13 | bigdog_ut | i dont like that u have to have apache2 though |
| 16:19.27 | bigdog_ut | the cool thing with puttting that stuff in cvs is that you can archive it and check it out later |
| 16:19.52 | bigdog_ut | at one job we had all etc and various other dirs in cvs and a script to build servers with it |
| 16:20.04 | bigdog_ut | so it took like 20 minutes to build a new server |
| 16:20.14 | bigdog_ut | and they where all stored in cvs |
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| 16:20.30 | wps | macnewbold, what do you use --exclude for? |
| 16:20.31 | bigdog_ut | then if you make changes u commit to cvs and have all the server pulls from cvs |
| 16:20.38 | wps | specific files you want left out? |
| 16:20.39 | bigdog_ut | to ignore files |
| 16:23.26 | wps | k, next question |
| 16:23.40 | wps | how can you make a shortcut in the command line |
| 16:24.15 | wps | if you have something big that you type a lot, like "rsync -avz --delete --progress --stats ./ server:dir/", can you set that somewhere so you just have to type "backup" and it will execute it? |
| 16:24.32 | bigdog_ut | alais |
| 16:24.35 | bigdog_ut | alias |
| 16:24.49 | bigdog_ut | set it in your login script |
| 16:25.58 | bigdog_ut | wps, what shell are you in? |
| 16:26.07 | wps | bash |
| 16:26.17 | wps | (default on Mac OS) |
| 16:26.22 | bigdog_ut | then add this to your .bashrc file |
| 16:26.49 | wps | i know... I know... I am under-knowledge-ed... but hey, using rsync for my first time is a big step! :) |
| 16:26.50 | bigdog_ut | alias backup="rsync -avz --delete --progress --stats ./ server:dir/" |
| 16:27.07 | wps | k… adding |
| 16:27.09 | bigdog_ut | and restart your shell session |
| 16:27.27 | bigdog_ut | make sure you set all the right vars in the rsync command |
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| 16:33.46 | wps | thanks, bigdog_ut |
| 16:35.08 | bigdog_ut | np |
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| 17:03.14 | wps | how do I delete files that match a certain criteria recursively down through a directory? |
| 17:03.41 | wps | -r didn't seem to work |
| 17:03.47 | bigdog_ut | what files are you looking for |
| 17:04.07 | wps | I need to delete some orphaned temp files |
| 17:04.11 | wps | ._* |
| 17:04.35 | bigdog_ut | the do this: find . -name '.-*' | xargs -i rm -f "{}" |
| 17:04.48 | bigdog_ut | but run the find . -name '.-*' -type f first |
| 17:04.56 | bigdog_ut | to see if you have the ones you want |
| 17:05.15 | bigdog_ut | find . -name '.-*' -type f |
| 17:05.31 | bigdog_ut | find . -name '.-*' -type f | xargs -i rm "{}" |
| 17:05.37 | wps | hmm... returned nothing |
| 17:05.57 | bigdog_ut | give bigdog_ut an example of the file you are looking for |
| 17:06.09 | wps | they all start with "._" |
| 17:06.18 | wps | "dot underscore" |
| 17:06.55 | bigdog_ut | oh then do find . -name '._*' -type f |
| 17:09.08 | wps | this is weird |
| 17:09.29 | wps | I am building a bzip archive and I can see the ._ files, but when I do an ls -all on that dir I can't |
| 17:10.02 | bigdog_ut | perhaps the utility is creating them for the action |
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| 17:24.11 | vontrapp | is there a php function to get the index of an array value? |
| 17:24.22 | macnewbold | sure |
| 17:24.32 | macnewbold | it's either in_array() or array_search() I think |
| 17:24.51 | vontrapp | oh, does in_array() return the index if it's found? |
| 17:24.56 | macnewbold | vontrapp: www.php.net/in_array or www.php.net/array_search |
| 17:24.58 | macnewbold | it might |
| 17:24.59 | vontrapp | i guess that's why i couldn't find it |
| 17:25.02 | macnewbold | I can't remember for sure |
| 17:25.22 | vontrapp | nope, it only returns bool |
| 17:26.01 | vontrapp | array_search looks like it will work |
| 17:30.04 | bigdog_ut | ~in_array |
| 17:30.19 | macnewbold | wps: the ._ files and the .DS_Store files are things I use --exclude for, and for emac's *~ backup files too |
| 17:30.31 | macnewbold | and .#*# files that are emacs working files |
| 17:34.32 | fungus | I usually stuff all those in my .cvsignore and use -C |
| 17:35.19 | bigdog_ut | hence the reason to use cvs |
| 17:35.20 | bigdog_ut | lol |
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| 21:11.34 | *** topic/#uphpu by bigdog_ut -> Meeting Tomorrow(Wednesday): CSS & XHTML | Utah PHP User Group | www.uphpu.org |
| 21:20.27 | bigdog_ut | ~smack wps |
| 21:20.29 | jbot | ACTION smacks wps upside the head. |
| 21:21.17 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: Didn't seem to work... smack him again! |
| 21:21.38 | bigdog_ut | ~smack wps |
| 21:21.39 | jbot | ACTION smacks wps upside the head. |
| 21:22.26 | wps | bigdog_ut is so abusive |
| 21:22.36 | bigdog_ut | ~pimpslap wps |
| 21:23.15 | bigdog_ut | im tired...i have been working 2 weeks straight and im tired of setting up dbs and servers |
| 21:23.33 | wps | :) |
| 21:23.46 | bigdog_ut | ~slap jsmith |
| 21:23.47 | jbot | ACTION slaps jsmith, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 21:24.00 | bigdog_ut | ~tell jsmith to not use rhel4 |
| 21:24.15 | bigdog_ut | lol |
| 21:24.44 | bigdog_ut | ~tell jsmith "dont use rhel4" |
| 21:24.59 | bigdog_ut | ~slap jbot |
| 21:25.00 | jbot | ACTION slaps jbot, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 21:25.39 | bigdog_ut | jsmith, let "me" ask the rdhat guys where they are |
| 21:28.21 | bigdog_ut | wps, are u ready for tomorrow? |
| 21:29.00 | wps | kind of |
| 21:29.31 | wps | haven't actually prepared much |
| 21:29.35 | bigdog_ut | lol\ |
| 21:29.45 | wps | but it sounds like most people want to just see my code instead of my yacking for a while |
| 21:29.45 | bigdog_ut | ~slap wps |
| 21:29.46 | jbot | ACTION slaps wps, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 21:30.08 | bigdog_ut | what code may that be...css? |
| 21:30.58 | wps | yeah, XHTML and CSS... doing layout |
| 21:31.07 | bigdog_ut | layouts like? |
| 21:31.24 | wps | XHTML compliant |
| 21:31.27 | bigdog_ut | oh |
| 21:31.35 | wps | (non-tabular) |
| 21:31.46 | wps | tips, tricks, etc |
| 21:32.52 | wps | you coming? |
| 21:33.03 | bigdog_ut | nope |
| 21:33.16 | wps | jbot, cry |
| 21:33.17 | jbot | ACTION cries and sobs until he nearly drownds in his own tears |
| 21:33.35 | bigdog_ut | sorry...u changed the day on bigdog_ut |
| 21:42.39 | wps | yeah, I wish we didn't have to have done that |
| 21:46.49 | wps | we couldn't find anyone else to present though |
| 21:47.16 | bigdog_ut | yeah |
| 21:47.29 | bigdog_ut | ~wake jsmith |
| 21:47.30 | jbot | jsmith: GOOD MORNING!!! |
| 21:47.37 | bigdog_ut | jsmith, i got an answer for ya |
| 21:52.09 | bigdog_ut | ~slap jsmith |
| 21:52.10 | jbot | ACTION slaps jsmith, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 21:52.49 | bigdog_ut | jsmith, for native compiled eclipse you can do this: try the Fedora Core Rawhide rpms on RHEL4 |
| 21:53.01 | bigdog_ut | but you'll have a long string of dependencies to resolve |
| 22:00.09 | *** topic/#uphpu by wps -> Meeting tomorrow (Wed, 18): CSS & XHTML |
| 22:06.05 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: Been there, done that... requires a newer gcc, which requires a newer glibc, which updates the whole world. |
| 22:10.52 | bigdog_ut | yeah depends are killers |
| 22:11.39 | bigdog_ut | jsmith just do gentoo |
| 22:11.52 | bigdog_ut | ~dropkick dataw0lf|w |
| 22:11.53 | jbot | ACTION sends dataw0lf|w flying like a yipping chihuahua |
| 22:15.18 | dataw0lf|w | bigdog_ut: want to try to help me with a problem ? |
| 22:15.31 | bigdog_ut | sure man |
| 22:15.37 | dataw0lf|w | aight. |
| 22:15.51 | dataw0lf|w | I'm installing Tru64 4.0f on this machine. |
| 22:16.08 | dataw0lf|w | gotta setup NIS auth, with the accompanying NFS automount for home directories. |
| 22:16.20 | dataw0lf|w | auth works fine (ie, can login with username and password) |
| 22:16.39 | dataw0lf|w | NFS works fine (ie, can mount home directories and various other mounts on NFS servers about the workplace) |
| 22:16.42 | dataw0lf|w | HOWEVER |
| 22:16.50 | dataw0lf|w | When I login as a user, it gives me: |
| 22:16.58 | dataw0lf|w | (a NIS authed user that is) |
| 22:17.13 | dataw0lf|w | No directory! |
| 22:17.13 | dataw0lf|w | Logging in with home = "/". |
| 22:17.17 | dataw0lf|w | then promptly logs me out. |
| 22:17.33 | dataw0lf|w | when I login as local root, the user's home dir that was supposed to be mounted IS mounted. |
| 22:18.03 | bigdog_ut | lol...so it is doing the opposite? |
| 22:18.32 | dataw0lf|w | well. |
| 22:18.36 | dataw0lf|w | not really the opposite. |
| 22:18.43 | dataw0lf|w | it just seems to be automounting on logout or something. |
| 22:18.46 | dataw0lf|w | christ, I dunno. |
| 22:18.54 | dataw0lf|w | I'm still new to this Tru64 thing. |
| 22:19.03 | dataw0lf|w | plus, it's an old version of Tru64. |
| 22:19.09 | dataw0lf|w | Which the documentation on it is light. |
| 22:19.35 | dataw0lf|w | Now, before anyone googles and says 'Tru64 clients accessing a Linux server can't have locking enabled server side unless you disable locking client side' I know this. |
| 22:20.15 | dataw0lf|w | (because 4.x uses NFS v 3) |
| 22:21.20 | bigdog_ut | let bigdog_ut check something |
| 22:21.20 | dataw0lf|w | somebody please help. |
| 22:21.26 | dataw0lf|w | :) |
| 22:22.59 | wps | what is the speed different between downloading via HTTP or FTP? |
| 22:23.03 | wps | difference |
| 22:24.26 | dataw0lf|w | Not much, I'm guessing. Probably relies more on the server app rather than the protocol, if anything. |
| 22:24.38 | wps | k |
| 22:26.03 | bigdog_ut | dataw0lf|w, how is your /etc/passwd file set up |
| 22:26.05 | bigdog_ut | did you modify that |
| 22:26.11 | dataw0lf|w | client side? |
| 22:26.13 | dataw0lf|w | No. |
| 22:26.19 | dataw0lf|w | shouldn't even looksie there. |
| 22:26.40 | dataw0lf|w | and NIS auth off the server side works fine on other clients, with same OS. |
| 22:27.09 | bigdog_ut | i know you need a line like this: +nis_user:::::/<home_dir>:/bin/sh |
| 22:28.22 | dataw0lf|w | well, or just +: |
| 22:28.27 | dataw0lf|w | but, yeah, checked that. |
| 22:28.28 | bigdog_ut | yeah that is fine too |
| 22:29.30 | bigdog_ut | perhaps +::::::::: |
| 22:31.29 | dataw0lf|w | nah, I got it setup as +: on the other machines and they work, although I think that might work too. |
| 22:32.59 | dataw0lf|w | it has to be something incredibly estoretic and Tru64 specific. |
| 22:34.16 | bigdog_ut | yeah i cant think of what would cause that |
| 22:34.33 | dataw0lf|w | I know, you're the only guy I thought that might've had a clue. |
| 22:34.42 | dataw0lf|w | cause you're old. |
| 22:34.49 | dataw0lf|w | and used to the NIS stylistics. |
| 22:34.50 | bigdog_ut | yeah...but i hate nis |
| 22:35.02 | bigdog_ut | i use ldap any time i can |
| 22:35.06 | dataw0lf|w | I wish. |
| 22:35.15 | bigdog_ut | caues i have like 10 ldap servers |
| 22:35.18 | bigdog_ut | so it is easier |
| 22:35.30 | dataw0lf|w | Unfortunately, until we can find someone who knows enough about these mice we use here to write a driver for 5.0, we're stuck with 4.0 |
| 22:35.40 | dataw0lf|w | which doesn't support LDAP. |
| 22:35.56 | dataw0lf|w | everything else runs LDAP though. |
| 22:35.58 | bigdog_ut | do you think it is an nis or nfs issue? |
| 22:36.33 | dataw0lf|w | you know, I don't think it's really either, it's something in some weird config file where it's being called (automount) |
| 22:36.44 | dataw0lf|w | so, NFS, kinda. But not really. |
| 22:37.07 | bigdog_ut | how did you set up the automount? |
| 22:38.05 | dataw0lf|w | just auto.master calling auto.home |
| 22:38.09 | dataw0lf|w | like every other machine. |
| 22:38.15 | dataw0lf|w | eine moment, responses from the Tru64 Manager's list |
| 22:39.56 | wps | what are good up-speeds? |
| 22:40.08 | bigdog_ut | 256 |
| 22:40.24 | wps | hmm... I'm only getting 123k |
| 22:40.37 | bigdog_ut | 1.5M |
| 22:40.40 | bigdog_ut | is really good |
| 22:40.41 | jsmith | wps: Upload speeds for what? |
| 22:40.55 | wps | uploading from home to remote server |
| 22:41.17 | bigdog_ut | jsmith, through who? |
| 22:41.26 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: Qwest and XMission. |
| 22:41.40 | bigdog_ut | qwest has home dsl that speed? |
| 22:42.09 | jsmith | Yup... only in the past couple of weeks. |
| 22:42.21 | jsmith | It's $38 a month instead of $28. |
| 22:42.25 | jsmith | Which was a no-brainer. |
| 22:42.25 | bigdog_ut | oh so it is new...i had soemone mention that too me...i need to call |
| 22:42.38 | jsmith | Problem is that they lower your upload speed to 876 instead of 1024. |
| 22:44.00 | dataw0lf|w | I heard about that, upgrading soon. |
| 22:44.05 | dataw0lf|w | But that upload cap sucks. |
| 22:44.56 | bigdog_ut | what did you ask for jsmith? |
| 22:45.04 | wps | that's ten times what I am getting right now! |
| 22:45.59 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: They try to sell you the $54 MSN-sponsered garbage... just tell them you want the 7mbit DSL *with your own ISP*. |
| 22:46.10 | bigdog_ut | yeah |
| 22:46.32 | wps | so it's $38 for Qwest and how much for the ISP? |
| 22:47.15 | bigdog_ut | lol jsmith he told "me" that |
| 22:47.55 | bigdog_ut | i said you better leave bigdog_ut with xmission |
| 22:48.34 | dataw0lf|w | Hm, I think when I said that I was new to Tru64 the Tru64 Managers took that as 'I'm a A+ certified Windows assistant administrator' |
| 22:49.14 | wps | so what's your total price, jsmith? |
| 22:49.24 | wps | (DSL + ISP) |
| 22:50.20 | jsmith | wps: Whatever $38 plus $19 is... $57? |
| 22:50.20 | wps | cool. Thanks |
| 22:50.21 | wps | (comparing to my ISP) |
| 22:50.33 | dataw0lf|w | gotta love XMission. |
| 22:50.42 | jsmith | I could get $17 on XMission if I paid for six months at a time, but I'm lazy. |
| 22:51.24 | bigdog_ut | that is what i do... |
| 22:51.37 | dataw0lf|w | Monthly, all the way. |
| 22:51.43 | dataw0lf|w | Who knows when I'm going to need to leave the country? |
| 22:51.49 | fungus | I get mine for free. :) |
| 22:52.05 | bigdog_ut | ~smack fungus |
| 22:52.06 | jbot | ACTION smacks fungus upside the head. |
| 22:53.35 | jsmith | fungus: So do I... my work is kind enough to pay for my connection. |
| 22:54.02 | fungus | yeah, we rock. |
| 22:55.23 | wps | get this… |
| 22:56.21 | dataw0lf|w | wth |
| 22:56.21 | wps | the four programmers at a previous employer worked off-site backups at each of their homes into the back-up plan, so each had a t1 to their house |
| 22:56.21 | dataw0lf|w | how did 'runs apt-get install this' get mangled into that? |
| 22:56.39 | jsmith | wps: Killer... |
| 22:56.48 | wps | yeah, very nice perk |
| 22:56.51 | jsmith | wps: Of course, I've got faster downloads a home now than a T1. |
| 22:56.59 | wps | true, true |
| 22:57.06 | wps | DLS is spanking T1 now |
| 22:57.11 | wps | DSL |
| 22:57.31 | fungus | on downloads, but not latency, reliability, or uploads. |
| 22:57.33 | jsmith | wps: Well, burst speeds... DSL doesn't have a committed rate... |
| 22:57.41 | wps | correct |
| 22:57.43 | jsmith | wps: Listen to fungus. |
| 22:58.05 | wps | yeah, I was just referring to burst speed |
| 22:58.11 | jsmith | But for the price, I could get two DSL lines for additional redunancy, etc. and still be on top. |
| 22:58.30 | wps | very true |
| 22:59.38 | fungus | You could still but 2 DSL lines for less than 1 T1. Just load balance outgoing traffic, and you come pretty close. |