irclog2html for #uphpu on 20050516

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01:17.00*** topic/#uphpu is Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org
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15:36.21dataw0lf|wbigdog_ut: finished with that presentation
15:36.22dataw0lf|w?
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15:53.30dataw0lf|wdid you get the info you needed involving soft versus hard links, wps?
15:56.37wpsyeah
15:56.50wpsI am clear on the technological difference now
15:56.53dataw0lf|wword.
15:56.58wpsI am still fuzzy on usage difference though
15:57.14wpscan you give me an example of why/when you would use one over the other?
15:58.22dataw0lf|wsoft links can be used for directories, hard links cannot span disk drives.
15:58.47wpssorry, let me be more specific
15:59.12wpswhat about just a text file that you want to access from a few different locations?
15:59.48wpsyou  want to be able to open the links and edit the file and have it all visible in the original
15:59.57wpswould you use soft or hard?
16:00.03macnewboldit depends...
16:00.10wps~depends
16:00.11macnewboldone of the biggest differences is what happens when you delete
16:00.36macnewboldif you delete a hard link, the file is still there in the other location, since it literally is the same file in two places
16:00.39wpsokay, so my decision would be based on what I want to happen when I want to delete the file?
16:00.39macnewboldwith a sym link,
16:00.54macnewboldif you delete the sym link, the file is still there in the other location
16:01.19macnewboldif you delete the _target_ of the symlink, the file is gone, and the symlink will just be a broken link
16:01.48macnewboldwps: yeah, partly... I can't think of many other differences though, except for things like calculating disk uage, etc.
16:01.55macnewboldor archiving
16:02.08macnewboldif you want it to behave exactly like a normal file, use a hard link
16:02.08dataw0lf|wLike I said in my mailing list, this all has to do with inodes.
16:02.28macnewboldif you want it to behave more like a shortcut to a file in a different place, use a symlink
16:02.40macnewboldI almost always use symlinks rather than hard links.
16:02.50macnewboldif it's a different file system, you must use a sym link.
16:03.12macnewbolddataw0lf's explanation is probably worth reading
16:03.18wpsI read it
16:03.28macnewboldah, okay
16:03.35macnewboldyou could also try "man ln"
16:03.42wpsman ln is worthless
16:03.43wps:)
16:03.51wpsthat's why I posted about it
16:03.57bigdog_utlol
16:04.12wpsk, for my specific application, it sounds like hard link is what I want, _except_ I have discovered that OS X does not write to the original file when editing a hard link through the GUI
16:06.32bigdog_utif the inodes are the same then it should
16:07.15wpsyeah, for some reason the inode gets changed
16:07.16wpslame
16:07.52bigdog_utare you sure
16:08.12bigdog_uthow are u creating the hardlink
16:10.03wpsln originalfile hardlink
16:10.14dataw0lf|wJeez.
16:10.15bigdog_utthen that should work for ya
16:10.24dataw0lf|wAnd I thought I didn't need anymore reason to OS X. :)
16:10.38wpsto what it?
16:10.54bigdog_utunless macnewbold knows a reason...cause osx is freebsd under the hood
16:11.00dataw0lf|wwell.
16:11.03dataw0lf|wMach under the hood.
16:11.15dataw0lf|wwith some FreeBSD kernel magic.
16:11.40wpsk, just confirmed it
16:11.40bigdog_utcorrect
16:11.40wpsafter creating the link, the inodes are the same
16:11.55wpsbut, once I open the file in the GUI, edit, and save, the inode of the hard link changes
16:12.46wpsif I edit with vi though it works
16:12.54wpssounds like a bug to me
16:14.08dataw0lf|wwhat GUI?
16:14.13wpsMac OS
16:14.29dataw0lf|wvi+++++++++++
16:15.25bigdog_uthow are you checking the inode numbers?
16:16.45wpsls -lia
16:19.54dataw0lf|wtry a find -inum / <original inode #>
16:20.31wpsbefore or after I edit it via the GUI?
16:20.54dataw0lf|wbefore and after
16:21.29wpsk
16:23.13wpsbefore -> 311460 -rw-r--r--    2 wade  wade      12 May 16 10:12 originalfile
16:23.34wpshard link now created
16:23.37wps311460 -rw-r--r--    3 wade  wade      12 May 16 10:12 hardlink
16:23.38wps311460 -rw-r--r--    3 wade  wade      12 May 16 10:12 originalfile
16:23.42wps(same inode)
16:25.01wps(running find)
16:25.34macnewboldright
16:25.37macnewboldthat's a hard link for you
16:25.45macnewboldnow edit it and see what it does
16:26.18macnewboldthe only reason I can think of why an editor might do that is if they save the changes as a new file just after they move the old one to the "backup" file
16:26.34macnewboldbut that's not a good idea, since it breaks hard links :-D
16:26.42macnewboldit probably might break symlinks too
16:26.48macnewboldso wps, what editor did you say it was?
16:27.31fungusIt isn't an OSX thing,  it is an editor thing.  Some editors will mv the old file to a backup (or just simply unlink it) and save a new inode.
16:28.08macnewboldyeah, that's a lame way to do an editor, but most non-*nix editors wouldn't know that that's a bad thing
16:28.24macnewboldsince windoze doesn't have real hard links or real symlinks
16:28.47wpsah... good callā€¦ let me try another editor
16:28.53wpsI was using TextEdit
16:29.19macnewboldhm... if they updated it for OSX, it probably should do that right. Someone go file a bug report...
16:29.51fungusI have just tested that the emacs on OSX is smart about the hardlink.
16:30.29fungusTextEdit breaks the link just as I described.
16:30.44wpsI just tested it in ZDE
16:30.49wpsit keeps the inode
16:31.00bigdog_utcause zend is built on eclipse
16:31.01wpsso, it is confirmed, it is a problem with TextEdit and not the OS
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16:53.54macnewbold~seen jsmith
16:54.08jbotjsmith <~jsmith@pip.drs1.omniture.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #uphpu, 9d 19h 37m 47s ago, saying: 'bigdog_ut: Nice!'.
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19:01.31*** join/#uphpu mindjuju (~mindjuju@216.20.238.225)
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19:02.13TrojanHorsehello!
19:02.13TrojanHorseplease can u tell me how to config the apache and the php on a lan?
19:02.13TrojanHorsei've already read the apache manual (install.txt from php5), but i've install the wamp on a workstation (in the lan it has the ip 192.162.1.74), and in the main cfg files i wrote the servername as ws32 and when i'm opening ie, and i write ws32, or localhost is opening the site...
19:02.13TrojanHorsenow is coming the problem... (it has novell install)
19:02.13TrojanHorsewhen i'm triing to access from another ws i get a white blank page, or dns error.... what should i modify to be possible to access it from another ws
19:02.16TrojanHorse(i already try that thing with ip, or v host, or bind adress)
19:02.19TrojanHorse(i've added that thing with application /x-hhtp-php or what ever, i've included the in the doc_root, i've copied the php.ini and some dll's in the win dir (dlls in the system32), and much more...)
19:02.21TrojanHorsefor nothing
19:02.24TrojanHorseplease do not ban me
19:03.06macnewboldTrojanHorse: are you in Utah?
19:03.19TrojanHorseplease respond on alex@pc-dojo.ro
19:03.20TrojanHorseno
19:03.26TrojanHorsefrom romania
19:03.30macnewboldk
19:03.40macnewboldyou might be best to ask a local group, or try google first
19:03.51macnewboldmost of the answers you're seeking are readily avaliable on the web
19:03.54TrojanHorsei'm new in branch
19:03.55macnewboldand can be located with google
19:04.06TrojanHorseyse but dial-up,
19:04.14macnewboldit sounds like you need to set up dns
19:04.15TrojanHorsei don't have any time
19:04.20macnewboldyou can use google over dial-up
19:04.42TrojanHorseis a novell lan
19:05.09macnewboldthat's okay
19:05.16macnewboldDNS interoperates with novel lan doesn't it?
19:05.16TrojanHorseit also sees the another ws's
19:05.21TrojanHorseyes
19:05.35macnewboldyes, do you hvae a dns server for the domain you're trying to host on the apache box?
19:05.59TrojanHorsehow?
19:06.01macnewboldif you want the apache to host a web site, you need to configure it, which it sounds like you've done,
19:06.11macnewboldbut you also need to configure DNS to know htat the web server is at that IP address,
19:06.15macnewboldso others can find it
19:06.26TrojanHorseyes
19:06.51TrojanHorsehow can i do taht from a nover os or win 2000 server?
19:07.54TrojanHorsei wreely do not work in win 2000 server or novell
19:08.25TrojanHorseplease respond me i do not have time
19:09.29TrojanHorseis about a school project
19:09.41TrojanHorseat home is already configured
19:10.59TrojanHorsebut in my highschool the ws who has installed apache is down
19:12.53TrojanHorseis about a school project
19:15.15TrojanHorse10x
19:15.43dataw0lf|wthank you.
19:16.29macnewbold"I do not have time"... yeah, like any of us do either...
19:16.39macnewboldfix it yourself, mr high school
19:17.52*** topic/#uphpu by macnewbold -> Meeting on Wednesday: XHTML/CSS/Design by Wade Shearer (wps) *Different Day and Location* | Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org
19:18.25macnewboldso wps, when you have some time, let's talk about starting up the group project
19:18.48macnewboldthough your class schedule may not make that easy... you're gone Tues and Thurs for how long?
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19:33.11wpsuntil the third week in June
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19:45.27*** topic/#uphpu is Meeting on Wednesday: XHTML/CSS/Design by Wade Shearer (wps) *Different Day and Location* | Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org
19:52.08macnewboldwps: so what's your opinion on starting the group project? Do it soon (i.e. next week or two weeks), or do it after your class finishes?
19:52.43wpsI will support either, but I won't be able to participate much until class is over
19:53.53macnewboldyeah, that's what I figured. And I'm busy every Wednesday indefinitely, except for maybe on exception every 2-3 months, like this week.
19:54.20bigdog_uti say start it or others will not participate
19:55.10macnewboldso wade would miss probably 1-2 meetings, depending on how hard we push in the first few meetings
19:55.28wpsmeaning that with all of the rev-up, we'll loose the interest if we don't move right in?
19:55.45bigdog_utyep
19:55.55wpsagreed
19:56.00macnewboldme too
19:56.07bigdog_utif the requirements are done right then wps will have no issue coming to speed
19:56.33macnewboldit's hard not to have wps for those first meetings, since we'll be coming up with the top-level plan
19:56.41macnewboldbut I guess part of every project is evolving it :)
19:56.54macnewboldand we want this to be realistic and practical
19:57.08wpsI will have classes on T/Th nights until the third week of June though and M/W/T/Th nights for July and August
19:57.11bigdog_uttrue...i think wps will still have time...perhaps to do email
19:57.16wpsafter that though, I am graduated and will have TONS more time
19:57.34wpsI can still participateā€¦ just cyber-ly
19:57.38macnewboldBTW, I got permission to use the space here for the meetings, with the potential for having to move into a smaller room as a backup plan
19:57.50wpscool
19:57.51macnewboldwe'll want to find someone that can bring a projector though
19:57.56wpslots of meeting options
19:58.06wpsmindjuju's places sounds really good too
19:58.14wps(where we are meeting Wednesday)
19:58.18wpslarge room with a projector
19:58.27bigdog_utwhat is the location?
19:58.28wpsthere is a projector, right mindjuju?
19:58.44bigdog_ut~wake mindjuju
19:58.45jbotmindjuju: GOOD MORNING!!!
19:58.57wpshttp://maps.google.com/maps?q=12393+Gateway+Park+Pl+Draper,+UT+84020-2317&spn=0.061768,0.056873&hl=en
19:59.04macnewboldjbot, melvin mindjuju
19:59.05jbotACTION pulls mindjuju underwear up to the ceiling...and smiles
19:59.16macnewbold~seen mindjuju
19:59.31jbotmindjuju is currently on #uphpu
19:59.31bigdog_uti thought slc is where we want to meet
19:59.58macnewboldI'd like that, but I'm a bit biased ;)
20:00.17bigdog_utwell ya...where did everyone pick?
20:00.33wpsit is in SLC
20:00.35macnewboldif mindjuju's place can be available any Tuesday, then it might work too, though that's like an extra 30 minutes for bigdog
20:00.35wps(draper)
20:00.42macnewboldPotM
20:00.57wpsit's closer for bigdog_ut (than Bluffdale, the usual)
20:01.11macnewbolddraper and bluffdale are practically the same
20:01.24wpsI am pretty sure that mindjuju's place is available any time
20:01.24macnewbolddraper can even be worse, depending how far off the freeway it is
20:01.36bigdog_utmacnewbold, yeah
20:01.38wpsit's right off the freeway
20:01.41wpscheck the link to the map
20:02.25macnewboldwhat's the name on the building for mindjuju?
20:02.50wpsnot sure if there is a name for the building
20:03.51macnewboldis it his work? what's the company called?
20:04.57wpsyes, his work
20:04.59wpscompany: Bill Good Marketing
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20:07.19dataw0lf|whttp://www.4webhelp.net/us/ip-atlas/plot.php
20:18.14wpsstrange
20:18.24wpsthe map says that all of my domains are in New Jersey
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20:42.01*** topic/#uphpu is Meeting on Wednesday: XHTML/CSS/Design by Wade Shearer (wps) *Different Day and Location* | Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org
20:42.03bigdog_utnot the location of the server
20:42.28bigdog_utfor example our ip address is owned by our parent company in new jersey
20:44.45bigdog_utso we show up as new jersey
20:45.46fungusI show up as Salt Lake City, cause we own our own IP block.  But oddly enough our old block owned by the uplink provider shows up as Australia.
20:46.13dataw0lf|whttp://www.geobytes.com/IpLocator.htm
20:50.43bigdog_utyeah if i submit my ip address 192.168.150.4 i get layton, utah
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21:04.56*** topic/#uphpu is Meeting on Wednesday: XHTML/CSS/Design by Wade Shearer (wps) *Different Day and Location* | Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org
21:05.34bigdog_utlol
21:15.21dripyeah... and I just hacked the crap out of 127.0.0.1!!!
21:15.27dripoh wait!
21:16.07drip=P
21:27.12macnewboldwhere's that located? the thing couldn't find it... Wherever it is, that sounds like a good place to hide an undercover spamming operation...
21:27.24macnewboldhey wait,
21:27.35macnewboldmaybe the _are_ spammers... let's DDoS them!
21:27.47macnewboldOkay everybody, on my count!
21:27.50macnewbold1, 2, 3, go!
21:27.56macnewboldnobody let up until they surrender
21:27.58wpsping... ping... ping... ping
21:28.25wpsmacnewbold, you should teach jbot to do this kind of dirty work
21:33.13macnewboldyeah... /me ponders how to get jbot to execute programs...
21:33.18macnewbold~ping
21:33.19jbotpong
21:33.24macnewboldyeah, he's there
21:33.33macnewbold~ping 127.0.0.1
21:33.34jbotpong 127.0.0.1
21:47.06bigdog_utbigdog_ut is the king
21:49.26usynicoptikal: you there?
21:49.32optikalyeah
21:51.38optikalusynic: whats up
21:51.55usynicoptikal: heard "prayer for england" by massive attack?
21:52.00optikalnope
21:52.20usynicthe nj has it.  pretty sweet.
21:52.52optikalwhich nj?
21:53.05usynicolds
21:53.11optikalwerd
21:56.50bigdog_utanyone done any home recording
21:57.04wpsaudio?
21:57.21bigdog_utaudio with everything
21:57.39wpswith everything?
21:57.52bigdog_utyeah sampling, snyth...etc
21:57.55bigdog_utdrums
21:58.08wpsI've done some
21:58.15bigdog_uton linux
21:58.33wpsnope
21:58.44wpsDAT tape
21:59.46wpswait, I think that that was redundant
21:59.55wpsI think that DAT stands for Digital Audio Tape
22:06.34bigdog_uti think im going ot set one up
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23:12.46*** topic/#uphpu is Meeting Wednesday: CSS & XHTML
23:14.02*** join/#uphpu zardinuk (~jeff@vulcan.americom.com)

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