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| 15:46.06 | macnewbold | morning, everyone |
| 15:46.08 | macnewbold | happy friday |
| 15:46.10 | macnewbold | ~rejoice |
| 15:46.12 | jbot | No, damit!!! |
| 15:46.17 | *** join/#uphpu wps (~wade@207.108.169.214) |
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| 15:46.29 | macnewbold | happy friday, wade! :) |
| 15:46.31 | macnewbold | ~rejoice |
| 15:46.32 | jbot | No, damit!!! |
| 15:51.57 | macnewbold | ~seen jsmith |
| 15:51.59 | jbot | jsmith <~jsmith@pip.drs1.omniture.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #uphpu, 6d 18h 35m 38s ago, saying: 'bigdog_ut: Nice!'. |
| 15:52.07 | macnewbold | hm |
| 15:59.40 | wps | happy friday, mac |
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| 17:03.13 | macnewbold | so wps, you all ready for your meeting presentation next week? |
| 17:05.27 | wps | sure :) |
| 17:05.35 | wps | haven't prepared anything yet |
| 17:05.53 | macnewbold | if you can throw in some cool graphic design hints, that would be really cool |
| 17:06.03 | wps | k |
| 17:06.07 | wps | thanks for the imput |
| 17:07.31 | macnewbold | I'd also like to see some of your table-less design magic |
| 17:08.00 | macnewbold | it just seems to me like there are a lot of things I can never accomplish when i try to do it that way, and I'm betting you've got ways to do it for at least some of those |
| 17:08.56 | mindjuju | hey yeah. i was looking over your portfollio (its referenced on your uphpu account) |
| 17:09.02 | mindjuju | there is some really good stuff there |
| 17:09.05 | macnewbold | thanks :) |
| 17:09.12 | macnewbold | or are you talking to wps? |
| 17:09.13 | macnewbold | ;) |
| 17:09.20 | macnewbold | wade's stuff is great |
| 17:09.25 | mindjuju | when I try to use css it looks like a brick with a pretty bow |
| 17:09.33 | mindjuju | can't seem to get the whole thing looking good |
| 17:09.38 | mindjuju | know what i mean |
| 17:10.02 | macnewbold | the stuff that we work on is generally a design from a graphic designer, and we have to implement it in html/css |
| 17:10.04 | mindjuju | like it has some of the nice stuff, but something seems to be fundamentally wrong, can't tell what it is |
| 17:10.28 | macnewbold | we've gotten really good at it, but I'm not real happy with the ways we have to do it sometimes |
| 17:10.47 | mindjuju | it's funny you mention working with a graphic artist |
| 17:10.56 | mindjuju | my company just hired one and i have first meetign today |
| 17:11.03 | mindjuju | first time i'll be working with one |
| 17:11.09 | mindjuju | any recommendations? |
| 17:11.15 | mindjuju | on like what to say or what to ask for |
| 17:12.20 | mindjuju | you know what might be cool for that meeting is if wade or you mac find some awful page and show how simple CSS can make it look better |
| 17:12.33 | wps | that's my plan |
| 17:12.39 | wps | to code something in front of the croud |
| 17:12.42 | wps | crowd |
| 17:13.19 | mindjuju | nice, that's exactly what i need. how to take ordinary or bad looking pages and make them extrondinary |
| 17:15.23 | macnewbold | mindjuju: in my experience, the most important thing to discuss with your graphic designer |
| 17:15.51 | macnewbold | is that stuff for the _web_ is _very_ different than stuff for printing or sign making or most other static media |
| 17:15.59 | wps | exactly |
| 17:16.02 | macnewbold | you don't know what size their screen will be |
| 17:16.09 | wps | I am not sure what you need to ask him, but I would make sure that he understands the web |
| 17:16.16 | macnewbold | you don't know what browser they're using, and every browser shows it differently |
| 17:16.31 | macnewbold | you may even have to deal with a dynamic layout that tries to fill the width of their screen |
| 17:16.33 | wps | designers who don't understand web programming and design for the web create things that are not realistic |
| 17:16.39 | macnewbold | exactly |
| 17:16.50 | wps | they don't have to know how to program, but they need to at least understand the technology and it's limits |
| 17:16.51 | macnewbold | you have to help them know what they can and can't expect the web to be able to do |
| 17:16.54 | macnewbold | yes |
| 17:17.11 | wps | and when they design, they need to understand what should and should not be a graphic |
| 17:17.30 | wps | you don't just paint a picture and then slice it up and slap it on the web |
| 17:17.32 | macnewbold | that's the only thing we've really had to do with our designers - everything else has gone smoothly, with at least 4 different design teams |
| 17:17.36 | macnewbold | right |
| 17:17.42 | wps | sure, you can, but that's a pretty crappy website |
| 17:18.02 | wps | they _must_ understand that the web is completely different... it's not static... it's fluid |
| 17:18.02 | macnewbold | they need to know that most of the text will be done as html text, not image text rendered from their pretty font |
| 17:18.08 | macnewbold | bingo |
| 17:18.11 | wps | sure, you can have static layouts, but fluid is better |
| 17:18.16 | macnewbold | _much_ better |
| 17:18.52 | macnewbold | you've got to balance out the look they're going for with its functionality, usability, and in most cases, with it's accessablity to search engines |
| 17:18.58 | macnewbold | ~spell accessability |
| 17:19.04 | wps | so, if they understand that they need to use graphics as little as possible (ie, solid color blocks will be done with CSS and not graphics) and that the layout will be fluid, then you will have success |
| 17:19.28 | macnewbold | exactly |
| 17:19.51 | macnewbold | and as the screen changes in size, things will lay out a little differently |
| 17:20.04 | macnewbold | different font sizes and widths in different browsers will do different things |
| 17:20.08 | macnewbold | lines will break differently |
| 17:20.10 | macnewbold | etc. |
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| 17:20.20 | wps | and as the users increases and decreases their font size |
| 17:21.01 | macnewbold | if they're used to working on printed material, they expect to be able to make an image that looks pretty, however they want, and send that image to be printed, and there's never any problem except maybe spot color vs process color and color matching |
| 17:21.36 | macnewbold | so mindjuju, great question |
| 17:22.00 | macnewbold | wps, you should maybe talk about that in the meeting a little :) it's really helpful to know how to work with graphic designers |
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| 17:31.24 | mindjuju | sorry, had to step away for a moment. See, that was my fear. that they would design for a page and not leave me enough flexibility since i'm going for major SQL infusion |
| 17:31.37 | mindjuju | i want fresh news and content, all SQL driven |
| 17:31.40 | wps | I would check on all that pre-hire |
| 17:31.53 | mindjuju | but if they have their pretty pictures, then not a lot of flexibility |
| 18:07.37 | macnewbold | most of the time, you just need a front page layout, |
| 18:07.44 | macnewbold | and a inside page layout (generally) |
| 18:07.51 | macnewbold | and sometimes a couple of special pages |
| 18:08.16 | macnewbold | but most of the pages should all follow the basic design that _every_ page has on it |
| 18:44.42 | fungus | today at 1pm, Kevin Mitnick will be a guest on radiogodaddy.com |
| 18:44.57 | wps | and he is? |
| 18:45.21 | fungus | Probably the most famous hacker ever. |
| 18:45.43 | wps | ah |
| 18:46.52 | tierra | definately not the best though |
| 18:47.00 | tierra | just more notorious |
| 18:47.46 | fungus | agreed, but he is now on the good side speaking and writing a lot about social engineering, and other topics. |
| 18:48.25 | tierra | yeah, made him famous enough to pull off putting together a consulting company that makes a lot of money now |
| 18:50.44 | fungus | he kind of deserves it after the extreme mistreatment by law officials. |
| 18:50.58 | dataw0lf|w | heh. |
| 18:51.01 | dataw0lf|w | Mitnick was a retard. |
| 18:51.13 | dataw0lf|w | If he hadn't been one, then he wouldn't have been 'mistreated' |
| 18:51.20 | dataw0lf|w | you act like a criminal, you'll be treated like a criminal. |
| 18:51.34 | fungus | Yeah, but his mistreatment was *extreme* |
| 18:51.57 | dataw0lf|w | Sure, he didn't 'deserve' waiting, waiting, waiting in jail, but if he hadn't been an idiot he wouldn't have been in that situation. |
| 18:52.05 | fungus | I think 8 mos solitary confinement for the suspicion of starting a nuclear war over a telephone. |
| 18:53.13 | tierra | his Art of Deception book is just full of other people's stories... there's maybe a single chapter that's his writing and it's not impressive by any means |
| 18:53.30 | dataw0lf|w | fungus: Don't believe everything 2600 shoves down your throat. |
| 18:53.37 | dataw0lf|w | it was 2 months solitary confinement. |
| 18:53.46 | dataw0lf|w | on the flip side, Markoff is an idiot too. |
| 18:53.56 | tierra | yeah, he is as well |
| 18:54.36 | tierra | Freedom Downtime was a piece of junk |
| 18:54.57 | dataw0lf|w | Goldstein is always getting all weepy about Mitnick, it's ridiculous. |
| 18:55.07 | dataw0lf|w | Someone needs to tell Goldstein to just SHUT UP! |
| 18:55.19 | fungus | I haven't read his books yet, but I have seen him on many radio/tv shows and he is quite intelligent. |
| 18:55.30 | dataw0lf|w | 'You're the guy who's screwing anybody and everybody in the scene!' |
| 18:55.36 | tierra | that was part of the reason we started up the DC groups... so we wouldn't be affiliated with that idiot |
| 18:56.06 | dataw0lf|w | fungus: I've met Mitnick in person. He's not as impressive when he hasn't memorized a self pitying script. |
| 18:56.07 | fungus | Hey, I like Goldstein. |
| 18:57.03 | tierra | the published 2600 mag hasn't had any decent piece of material in a LONG time |
| 18:57.26 | fungus | But he is the only one that is really trying to get the social engineering problem out in the public. |
| 18:57.27 | dataw0lf|w | if you want to idolize / sympathize somebody, do it with phiber, Lambrecht, or Schwartz |
| 18:57.52 | dataw0lf|w | I've been in one or another 2600 / DC group since 95/96, and it's continually going downhill. |
| 18:58.16 | dataw0lf|w | I thought it hit rock bottom with Freedom Downtime, but nope, broke right through the floor and kept going. |
| 18:58.20 | fungus | I don't idolize any hackers, just people who pursue free thought and other freedoms. |
| 18:58.37 | dataw0lf|w | they 'pursue' free thought by twisting the facts just as bad as the media and everyone else, fungus. |
| 18:58.44 | tierra | well, Goldstein isn't doing a very good job of that |
| 18:58.45 | fungus | eg. Richard Stallman |
| 18:58.56 | dataw0lf|w | I like Stallman. He's a nut, but I like him. |
| 18:59.18 | dataw0lf|w | Stallman certainly isn't comparable to Goldstein or Mitnick, though, for chr*stsake. |
| 18:59.27 | dataw0lf|w | Eric Raymond. |
| 18:59.31 | tierra | hehe |
| 18:59.33 | dataw0lf|w | There's a guy I can get behind. |
| 18:59.36 | fungus | of course, but I *like* Goldstein, not idolize him. |
| 18:59.48 | dataw0lf|w | Why do you like Goldstein? |
| 18:59.50 | fungus | Of course Eric. |
| 19:00.01 | dataw0lf|w | he's a blabbering idiot. |
| 19:00.21 | dataw0lf|w | he's almost singlehandedly bringing about the destruction of what the scene is supposed to be about. |
| 19:00.25 | fungus | I like his radio shows most of the time. He is an interesting person, with good ideals. |
| 19:01.15 | dataw0lf|w | all he does is use those, (which admittedly, I would agree with if he meant them) to push his own personal agenda into peoples' laps. |
| 19:01.32 | fungus | I don't listen to him for that scene. I listen to him because I like his personal agendas |
| 19:01.39 | dataw0lf|w | He's using the whole hacker persona / political views to get people who don't know better to support him. |
| 19:02.01 | dataw0lf|w | You don't understand, fungus. His personal agendas really aren't what he's feeding you on the radio or at talks. |
| 19:02.30 | fungus | well, I like what I hear that is what I know. |
| 19:02.41 | dataw0lf|w | heh. |
| 19:02.43 | dataw0lf|w | okie dokie. |
| 19:03.29 | dataw0lf|w | Sklyarov <-- good guy to sympathize with. |
| 19:04.23 | dataw0lf|w | http://www.freesklyarov.org/ |
| 19:04.55 | dataw0lf|w | Mitnick destroys stuff, Sklyarov creates. there's the basic difference. |
| 19:05.07 | fungus | yeah, godaddy sucks ass. |
| 19:05.55 | fungus | I dislike the radio, except for the occasional George Noory. |
| 19:06.34 | dataw0lf|w | www.pythonchallenge.com |
| 19:08.25 | scott | dataw0lf|w: how far are you? |
| 19:08.38 | dataw0lf|w | I just heard about it. |
| 19:10.42 | usybic | someone needs to create an mp3 player that uses half size DVDs. |
| 19:12.03 | usybic | that would eliminate: a) all the problems hard drive players have and b) OS compatability issues |
| 19:12.45 | scott | they would skip. |
| 19:13.02 | usybic | meh, they would use that ESP business |
| 19:13.17 | usybic | some sort of uber buffer. |
| 19:14.03 | usybic | I should invent this. |
| 19:14.11 | usybic | this is even better than my "boot reer" idea. |
| 19:14.19 | fungus | but it would still be larger than hard drive players. |
| 19:14.39 | usybic | fungus: I think the benifits would be worth it |
| 19:14.50 | scott | no one wants to have to burn a dvd these days, they want to just copy it and be done w/ it |
| 19:15.10 | fungus | No way, a DVD would get scratched and damaged, requires the user to own a DVD burner, etc. |
| 19:15.27 | usybic | but you'd have unlimited storage space |
| 19:15.56 | fungus | That was the idea of CD-MP3 players, I had one. Good idea, but actually bad in practice. |
| 19:16.02 | scott | most people don't fill up their ipods (the big ones) |
| 19:16.06 | fungus | Changing disks sucks. |
| 19:16.20 | usybic | how often would you change 4GB ? |
| 19:16.36 | fungus | I wan't more storage than that. |
| 19:16.38 | wps | I have a 60 GB iPod photo and it's half full |
| 19:17.08 | fungus | Also, I enjoy using my ipod as an external hard drive for general file transport. |
| 19:17.40 | usybic | ... and mp3 players that are supported in linux are few |
| 19:17.48 | fungus | I feel your pain. I would have convulsive fits w/o my iPod. |
| 19:18.08 | fungus | gtkpod works on linux. |
| 19:18.17 | usybic | yeah... I'll probably just get an iPod. |
| 19:18.30 | fungus | You don't get the iTunes Music store though. |
| 19:18.46 | usybic | which sucks, but oh well. |
| 19:41.25 | dataw0lf|w | I'm on level 6. |
| 19:43.15 | *** part/#uphpu fungus (~fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 19:52.00 | dataw0lf|w | scott: are you on 1 or 2 ? |
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| 20:04.03 | scott | 1 (not 0) |
| 20:04.49 | dataw0lf|w | want me to give you a wee hint on how to do it in Python? |
| 22:00.17 | wps | man, it just kills me watching people hunt-and-pick at a keyboard |
| 22:00.28 | wps | correction: hunt-and-peck |
| 22:00.48 | wps | my coworker only users his pointer fingers |
| 22:01.56 | *** join/#uphpu Alphahawk (~Alphahawk@70.56.105.158) |
| 22:04.48 | Alphahawk | anyone know a link that shows a dhcpd.conf file that can handle 512+ ip address pool |
| 22:05.46 | macnewbold | hm |
| 22:05.59 | macnewbold | ~google dhcpd address limit |
| 22:06.22 | macnewbold | ~google dhcpd pool size max OR maximum OR limit |
| 22:13.18 | macnewbold | Alphahawk: any of those look helpful? |
| 22:13.44 | macnewbold | I looked at your email, and as far as I can tell it looked good. The subnets and netmasks were my first suspect, but they were set right. |
| 22:18.21 | Alphahawk | ya I am starting to wonder if it is the switches that have propblems |
| 22:36.29 | macnewbold | switches don't care about IP addresses unless they're really routers |
| 22:36.37 | macnewbold | they just care about mac addressses |
| 22:36.54 | macnewbold | I konw you can't ping, but you might check with tcpdump to see if arp packets are getting through |
| 22:37.35 | macnewbold | knowing what's going out on the wire will help you to know better where the problem lies: in your own box, in the transmission, or in the other box |
| 22:37.46 | macnewbold | anyway, good luck with it, Alphahawk |
| 22:39.01 | dataw0lf|w | turned 9 times 'round, and the poor ole dog was drown, I'M THE LAST OF THE IRISH ROVER |
| 23:17.49 | Alphahawk | thanks for mac. It was actually part of my firewall |
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