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| 14:47.12 | bigdog_ut | the bigdog is in |
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| 15:01.13 | macnewbold | morning, bigdog_ut |
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| 15:23.53 | bigdog_ut | macnewbold, im all about talking the smack right |
| 15:24.14 | macnewbold | ~bigdog_ut is also full of Schmack at times |
| 15:24.16 | jbot | okay, macnewbold |
| 15:31.07 | bigdog_ut | ~bigdog_ut |
| 15:31.08 | jbot | well, bigdog_ut is Mullet Man, a.k.a. El Perro Loco, or "the gimp", or known as the schwagmeister, or a big meany, or laden, or full of Schmack at times |
| 15:31.35 | bigdog_ut | ~bigdog_ut is also the nagios king |
| 15:31.37 | jbot | okay, bigdog_ut |
| 15:31.46 | bigdog_ut | ~bigdog_ut |
| 15:31.48 | jbot | you are, like, Mullet Man, a.k.a. El Perro Loco, or "the gimp", or known as the schwagmeister, or a big meany, or laden, or full of Schmack at times, or the nagios king |
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| 15:37.37 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: You're the Nagios king? |
| 15:38.22 | bigdog_ut | yeah...i crowned myself |
| 15:38.37 | bigdog_ut | cause i installed it all about an hour |
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| 16:01.22 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: Oh. I was hoping you were a long-time Nagios expert (like me), 'cuz I've got a big project I've been wanting to do |
| 16:01.38 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: I wanna rewrite Nagios to be database driven |
| 16:02.10 | jsmith | (and more scalable, and fix the "distributed" architecture) |
| 16:02.36 | jsmith | Nagios just doesn't work well when trying to monitor several thousand hosts :-( |
| 16:06.54 | bigdog_ut | jsmith, nagios uses a database |
| 16:07.05 | bigdog_ut | what are u thinking of doing with the database |
| 16:08.28 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: Nagios uses a database for what!?! |
| 16:08.49 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: The configs are flat files which get re-read and re-parsed every time somebody visits a web page |
| 16:08.59 | bigdog_ut | configs are flat files |
| 16:09.07 | bigdog_ut | i use pgsql for some backend stuff |
| 16:09.07 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: All the status information, etc. is stored in flat files |
| 16:09.17 | bigdog_ut | depends...you can use mysql or pgsql |
| 16:09.29 | jsmith | Yes, but support has been taken out in Nagios 2.0 |
| 16:09.56 | jsmith | I want configs, status, etc. in pgsql... |
| 16:10.00 | bigdog_ut | welll it is a contrib that you can use |
| 16:10.17 | bigdog_ut | yeah i agree and a configuration utility that you can do via the web interface |
| 16:10.18 | jsmith | No, that's a hack... |
| 16:10.25 | jsmith | (the contrib) |
| 16:10.33 | bigdog_ut | yeah it is |
| 16:10.48 | jsmith | That's the completely wrong way to approach it... |
| 16:11.24 | bigdog_ut | drip, nice to see you |
| 16:11.42 | jsmith | By putting the core configs, status, etc. in a database, then it makes building a distributed Nagios setup much much better |
| 16:11.52 | bigdog_ut | oh i agree |
| 16:11.55 | jsmith | (instead of the current distributed setup hack) |
| 16:12.13 | jsmith | Anyway, I was hoping to twist your arm into helping once we get things rolling |
| 16:12.14 | bigdog_ut | the only issue that i have is that it is in perl |
| 16:12.14 | drip | howdy howdy |
| 16:12.45 | jsmith | Oh -- we're not rewriting it in Perl :-) |
| 16:12.56 | bigdog_ut | yeah |
| 16:13.04 | bigdog_ut | what are u thinking of doing it in |
| 16:13.07 | jsmith | The web front-end is obviously gonna be in PHP |
| 16:13.12 | jsmith | Haven't decided on the back-end. |
| 16:13.22 | bigdog_ut | i dont like the web front end either |
| 16:13.36 | bigdog_ut | i would like a standalone app (server-client) thing |
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| 16:41.41 | bigdog_ut | so drip decided to join us today |
| 16:42.12 | usynic | I see that drip is also a java coder |
| 16:42.29 | bigdog_ut | yeah...he rocks |
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| 17:25.15 | drip | i've been in here the last few days as well |
| 17:25.18 | drip | just been quite busy |
| 17:25.36 | drip | gotta pick up bigdog_ut's slack. =P |
| 17:25.38 | bigdog_ut | sure man |
| 17:26.10 | drip | i think i'm turning into a living, breathing java stored procedure |
| 17:26.12 | drip | =/ |
| 17:31.51 | usynic | optikal-: you there? |
| 17:31.57 | optikal- | yeah |
| 17:32.10 | usynic | so I had this sweet idea for nj. |
| 17:32.27 | optikal- | nj? |
| 17:51.02 | bigdog_ut | optikal-, thanks for the hook up |
| 17:53.54 | optikal- | npz |
| 17:56.15 | bigdog_ut | jsmith, that is not that bad |
| 17:56.25 | bigdog_ut | we have terrabits of data here |
| 17:56.26 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: It is when you're running myisamchk on the table |
| 17:56.39 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: So do I -- hundreds of terrabytes |
| 17:56.40 | bigdog_ut | well mysql just sucks period |
| 17:56.49 | jsmith | Oh, I know it. |
| 17:56.59 | bigdog_ut | tell them to give you oracle |
| 17:57.01 | jsmith | Today is a perfect example of why MySQL sucks. |
| 17:57.12 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: It's not free, and they won't transition to pgsql |
| 17:57.30 | bigdog_ut | really |
| 17:59.31 | jsmith | At least not in the short term. |
| 17:59.55 | jsmith | So, in the mean time, I'm stuck doing silly fixes on oversized tables |
| 18:00.03 | jsmith | Instead of doing fun and happy work |
| 18:01.21 | bigdog_ut | jsmith where you work at again? |
| 18:23.34 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: Omniture |
| 18:27.06 | jsmith | I wonder if there's an especially hot room in hades for people who abuse databases :-) |
| 18:37.11 | bigdog_ut | omniture...wow |
| 18:41.22 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: Yeah, it's fun here, other than the MySQL stuff I love to hate... |
| 18:41.41 | jsmith | I get to manage a metric ton of servers... |
| 19:01.26 | bigdog_ut | nice |
| 19:01.37 | bigdog_ut | i was looking at them for a job once |
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| 20:31.57 | jsmith | ARGGGGGGHHHH!!! 211 million rows in this one :-( |
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| 20:37.06 | bigdog_ut | lol |
| 20:37.40 | bigdog_ut | is that one database...man you guys need to work move some of that out |
| 20:41.57 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: I wish I could -- and yes, it's one database. |
| 20:42.03 | jsmith | No, it's one *table* |
| 20:42.09 | bigdog_ut | oh...that sucks |
| 20:42.14 | jsmith | Yup. |
| 20:42.27 | bigdog_ut | im suprised mysql can deal with it |
| 20:42.40 | jsmith | Since I'm not on the programming side of things, they don't believe I know anything about database design :-( |
| 20:42.46 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: Me too, honestly. |
| 20:42.53 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: Most of the time, it actually works OK. |
| 20:43.02 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: Until the tables get corrupted :-( |
| 20:43.18 | bigdog_ut | funny thing is all programmer think they know database design |
| 20:43.20 | bigdog_ut | but they dont |
| 20:43.27 | jsmith | Yup... |
| 20:43.39 | jsmith | It's something that only comes with lots and lots of experience |
| 20:44.07 | bigdog_ut | that is for sure |
| 20:44.55 | bigdog_ut | and that is event in many of the applications i have to fix |
| 20:45.07 | bigdog_ut | ** how come my app is slow ** |
| 20:45.24 | bigdog_ut | cause you got like 30 db queries on each page load |
| 20:45.29 | bigdog_ut | :) |
| 20:47.26 | drip | that's why i just use ONE BIG TABLE for everything. ;-) |
| 20:48.08 | bigdog_ut | oh yeah .5 normal form |
| 20:50.51 | jsmith | Only 30? |
| 20:50.56 | jsmith | Shoot... |
| 20:51.23 | bigdog_ut | it is amazing...how they accumilate |
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| 20:51.43 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: One page view can turn into more than 200 queries here |
| 20:51.53 | bigdog_ut | oh that is unreal |
| 20:52.03 | bigdog_ut | talk about crappy database design |
| 20:52.17 | bigdog_ut | and how many can be combined or limited |
| 20:53.02 | jsmith | It's all dependant on the number of things our customers ask us to track |
| 20:53.32 | bigdog_ut | another reason to use postgresql |
| 20:54.02 | bigdog_ut | ive been finding repeated queries on pages and combine them via functions in pgsql and that works killer |
| 20:54.06 | bigdog_ut | or stored procs |
| 20:54.15 | bigdog_ut | "life is peachy" now |
| 20:55.51 | jsmith | Like I said, I'd love to do that -- but how do you convince management to convert over a thousand database servers to a new platform? |
| 20:58.33 | bigdog_ut | cant you make a postgresql installation and compare the 2 |
| 20:58.42 | bigdog_ut | the present your findings to management |
| 20:59.03 | bigdog_ut | do they do mysql replication? |
| 20:59.12 | jsmith | No, we're still using MySQL 3.x |
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| 20:59.41 | bigdog_ut | i would be curious to see the stats of the 2 |
| 20:59.45 | jsmith | I'd love to compare the two, and have been meaning to, but since I'm from the other side of the office, I honestly don't think they'd listen to me. |
| 20:59.50 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: So would I. |
| 20:59.52 | bigdog_ut | especially on updates and modes |
| 21:00.04 | jsmith | There are *very few* updates. |
| 21:00.14 | jsmith | Mostly just inserts and some selects. |
| 21:00.20 | bigdog_ut | inserts are the killers |
| 21:00.24 | jsmith | Yup. |
| 21:00.44 | bigdog_ut | that woudl be fun to compare the 2 |
| 21:00.53 | jsmith | I just wanted over to talk to one of the chief engineers about this table that has 211 million rows. |
| 21:01.02 | bigdog_ut | i helped a friend in phoenix set that up too with the isp he works for |
| 21:01.29 | bigdog_ut | they moved from sybase to pgsql |
| 21:01.40 | jsmith | In looking at it, we discovered that it's only data for one item for one customer for one month -- it would be hard to split it any further without changing a lot of the business logic. |
| 21:01.41 | bigdog_ut | but we compared the 2 for them |
| 21:01.55 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: That's why you should work here :-) |
| 21:02.10 | bigdog_ut | u can split the tables i believe |
| 21:02.23 | bigdog_ut | so where multi-table look like one |
| 21:02.34 | bigdog_ut | cant remember where i was reading that...perhaps i am thinking oracle now |
| 21:02.39 | bigdog_ut | it all blends together |
| 21:02.49 | jsmith | Not without changing all kinds of other code, which they're not willing to change right now. |
| 21:03.07 | bigdog_ut | it is a database layer change...app would not feel it |
| 21:03.17 | bigdog_ut | but i think it is an oracle feature |
| 21:03.20 | jsmith | You'd think so, but you'd be wrong. |
| 21:03.49 | jsmith | The app is so tightly coupled to the database structure (even down to the underlying table names in the operating system) that they're afraid to fiddle with it. |
| 21:03.58 | jsmith | Again, I didn't design the thing! |
| 21:04.41 | bigdog_ut | yeah, but abstracting that in oracle is different...nothing would change from the apps point of view even table names |
| 21:13.08 | jsmith | I know... |
| 21:15.11 | bigdog_ut | how is the hardware? |
| 21:16.21 | jsmith | bigdog_ut: Nice! |
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| 22:19.37 | bigdog_ut | bigdog_ut is the master pimp |
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| 22:31.28 | dataw0lf | re: bigdog_ut pimpage. It's a lie. It always has been. |
| 22:31.55 | bigdog_ut | dataw0lf just wants the $$$ that bigdog_ut has |
| 22:32.14 | bigdog_ut | dataw0lf hate the game...not the pimper |
| 22:34.23 | dataw0lf | me? a playa hata? you off da hizza of shizza |
| 22:34.25 | dataw0lf | err |
| 22:34.30 | dataw0lf | s/of/fo |
| 22:34.57 | dataw0lf | anyways, I amsged that, and I'm probably in about 20 more channels than you. |
| 22:35.00 | dataw0lf | so HA. |
| 22:35.20 | bigdog_ut | oh...that is funny |
| 22:35.35 | bigdog_ut | u probably are trying to learn the game i am pimping |
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