| 00:01.07 | scott | jsmith: any students working there? |
| 00:02.29 | jsmith | scott: Yes, a lot |
| 00:04.49 | scott | lol, I imagine it's popular but I'd never heard "person-hours" before |
| 00:04.57 | scott | s/popular/common |
| 00:06.36 | jsmith | scott: Dell is not a customer... yet. |
| 00:06.46 | scott | they do so many transactions on their site and have such a wide number of deals I'd think they'd definitely use something like this |
| 00:07.10 | jsmith | scott: Yes, you'd think they'd be using something like what we offer :-) |
| 00:07.24 | scott | like their always changing their prices and making combos I wonder what they use to see what's working best |
| 00:07.40 | jsmith | Well, time to go get some dinner on the way to the meeting... See some of y'all there... |
| 00:07.53 | macnewbold | yeah, I gotta run too |
| 00:07.59 | jsmith | scott: Knowing Dell, it's probably something they spent 200 man-years writing internally |
| 00:08.05 | scott | oh right php gtk dealio |
| 00:08.16 | scott | person-years :) |
| 00:08.19 | macnewbold | see y'all there! :) |
| 00:08.30 | scott | anyone going from provo? :) |
| 00:09.03 | jsmith | I'm leaving from Orem, but I'm not sure I'll be coming back this far. |
| 00:09.18 | scott | 's fine |
| 00:09.33 | jsmith | Otherwise, I"d be happy to give you a ride. |
| 00:09.37 | jsmith | Later! |
| 00:09.39 | scott | later |
| 00:15.46 | beandog | man |
| 00:15.50 | beandog | distcc hates me. |
| 01:06.37 | *** join/#uphpu wps (~wps@66.239.25.78.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 01:06.40 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 01:14.31 | *** topic/#uphpu by wps -> Meeting underway! |
| 01:16.36 | spiderbiter | wps ... how's the turnout |
| 01:16.48 | wps | 15 |
| 01:16.59 | wps | alright... a little low |
| 01:17.11 | spiderbiter | I got sandbagged .... |
| 01:17.21 | wps | dataw0lf didn't show up with his harem |
| 01:17.31 | spiderbiter | haha |
| 01:17.50 | spiderbiter | Is ray already underway? |
| 01:17.55 | wps | yup |
| 01:18.03 | eco|w | dataw0lf has a harem? Why wasn't I informed of this!? |
| 01:18.10 | spiderbiter | well ... I'll just shoot for next month again |
| 01:28.40 | tierra | I'd go, but I'm still up in bountiful right now stuck at work |
| 01:30.36 | optikal- | I wanted to make it, but as usual.. something has to come up. |
| 01:37.34 | dataw0lf | are you calling my girlfriend a whore, wps? |
| 01:37.44 | wps | which one? |
| 01:37.57 | dataw0lf | ... |
| 01:39.04 | wps | no, dataw0lf, complimenting you in your ability to multitask |
| 01:40.24 | dataw0lf | I never knew I had more than one girlfriend. |
| 01:40.46 | dataw0lf | that's depressing. |
| 01:40.56 | optikal- | hehe |
| 01:41.46 | wps | "harem" isn't necessarily a negative thing |
| 01:41.47 | wps | http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en&q=define:+harem&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 |
| 01:41.54 | dataw0lf | maybe not to mormons. |
| 01:42.00 | dataw0lf | I know you're all down for that kinda thing. |
| 01:42.11 | wps | I meant it in the sense of "a lady on each arm" |
| 01:42.17 | dataw0lf | I'm sure. |
| 01:42.56 | dataw0lf | I encourage attacks on myself. |
| 01:43.11 | dataw0lf | but, please, lay off the girlfriend. |
| 01:44.15 | dataw0lf | especially in a 'family safe' channel such as this, where I cannot respond appropriately out of respect. |
| 01:44.31 | optikal- | hehe |
| 01:47.23 | dataw0lf | I don't think everyone here who doesn't know me outside this channel understands how much I hold back. |
| 01:48.20 | dataw0lf | I think they get the basic outline of 'dataw0lf is a mean and selfish person', of course. |
| 01:48.41 | optikal- | that doesn't quite cover it, but good enough. |
| 01:49.00 | dataw0lf | again, the nature of the channel prohibits me from expressing myself clearly. |
| 01:49.28 | wps | my sincere apologies if I was misunderstood... it was not referring to or suggesting anything personal |
| 01:49.48 | wps | I barely even know who you are... or anything about your personal life |
| 01:50.15 | wps | my comment was intended as playful banter in a very abstract sense |
| 01:51.18 | wps | it was intended in the same light as something such as: "woot! woot! where's the bigdot? where's the man? he's the mack-daddy with all the ladies!" |
| 01:52.21 | dataw0lf | no worries, I was thinking that may be the case. |
| 01:52.26 | dataw0lf | but I don't know you either. |
| 01:52.48 | wps | yeah, got to be careful with textual communication |
| 01:53.04 | wps | I should have picked on bigdog_ut instead, since I know him better |
| 01:53.14 | tierra | yes, it's very limiting without full expression of emotion |
| 01:53.19 | optikal- | heh |
| 01:53.26 | tierra | very dangerous |
| 01:53.31 | tierra | hehe |
| 01:53.38 | dataw0lf | I think everyone who knows me can agree that my online avatar is quite different from me in person. |
| 01:53.44 | dataw0lf | tierra: true. |
| 01:53.52 | dataw0lf | You might end up Adrenalized. |
| 01:53.57 | tierra | hehe |
| 01:54.00 | wps | ...without inflection |
| 01:56.03 | optikal- | haha |
| 01:56.52 | dataw0lf | I think I might add 'Adrenalized' to urbandictionary.com |
| 01:57.07 | dataw0lf | just for kicks. |
| 01:57.44 | optikal- | hahaha. |
| 01:57.58 | optikal- | nice |
| 02:06.09 | wps | don't an incredible job actually, he created a window with a button that says "hello world" |
| 02:06.16 | wps | and it has a tool tip! |
| 02:06.27 | dataw0lf | heh |
| 02:08.27 | eco|w | I've never heard (read) "don't" used like that. |
| 02:08.29 | eco|w | :) |
| 02:08.44 | *** join/#uphpu macnewbol1 (~newbold@66.239.25.72.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 02:08.44 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o macnewbol1] by ChanServ |
| 02:08.56 | wps | :_ |
| 02:08.58 | wps | :) |
| 02:08.59 | wps | doing |
| 02:10.01 | macnewbol1 | slackers |
| 02:10.04 | macnewbol1 | not coming to the meeting |
| 02:10.14 | macnewbol1 | you should all be shot |
| 02:10.53 | macnewbol1 | I should have logged into IRC at the _beginning_ of the meeting |
| 02:10.57 | macnewbol1 | this is a lot of fun :) |
| 02:11.09 | *** topic/#uphpu by macnewbol1 -> Meeting almost over! |
| 02:11.45 | optikal- | I couldnt make it. =( I had plans to go, but stuff came up.. Was lookin forward to checking out GTK and PHP. |
| 02:11.53 | eco|w | It's in Bluffdale? Huh. I thought the meetings were in Provo/Orem for some reason. |
| 02:11.59 | *** part/#uphpu macnewbol1 (~newbold@66.239.25.72.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 02:12.17 | eco|w | Bluffdale is almost worth traveling out to. |
| 02:12.34 | optikal- | Its not bad. |
| 02:12.42 | optikal- | The drive, that is. |
| 02:13.02 | optikal- | Its right off the freeway too, which makes it convienent. |
| 02:13.15 | tierra | but it's still down in bluffdale... |
| 02:13.21 | eco|w | Hehe, indeed. |
| 02:15.15 | optikal- | yes.. and driving from my house, even tho its in Magna, still makes it like im coming from almost north bountiful |
| 02:32.41 | *** join/#uphpu cycokilr (cycokilr@c-67-177-1-14.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 02:57.23 | spiderbiter | I'm still at work too ... when are we going broadcast video directly from the UPHPU meeting? |
| 03:05.19 | *** join/#uphpu jakea (~jakea@128.187.221.255) |
| 03:15.12 | tierra | which accounts for all 2 of them? |
| 03:16.28 | tierra | well, one of them on FreeNode anyway |
| 03:17.08 | tierra | unless your in private channels |
| 03:26.08 | scott | #ubuntu, #utah, #uphpu |
| 03:26.31 | scott | which one is private? |
| 03:33.39 | *** join/#uphpu wps (~wps@ns2.digis.net) |
| 03:33.49 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 03:38.41 | *** topic/#uphpu by wps -> Utah PHP Users Group | uphpu.org |
| 03:38.43 | tierra | both #utah and #ubuntu |
| 03:40.07 | tierra | well, after a join, I see #ubuntu isn't... they just aparently don't list channels I'm not in |
| 03:41.32 | tierra | which is a little odd since every other network I'm on does |
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| 10:00.13 | *** join/#uphpu karthik_2000b (~Hercules@aspireindia.aspiresys.com) |
| 10:00.18 | karthik_2000b | Hi all |
| 10:00.22 | karthik_2000b | Greetings |
| 10:09.35 | karthik_2000b | anybody here knock knock |
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| 13:38.55 | macnewbold | Morning, everyone |
| 13:40.03 | dataw0lf|w | good morning. |
| 14:07.01 | macnewbold | a bunch of y'all missed a good meeting last night... |
| 14:12.51 | *** join/#uphpu tbye (~tbye@67.51.216.51) |
| 14:19.50 | dataw0lf|w | I wanted to come, but couldn't make it unfortunately. |
| 14:34.41 | macnewbold | very useful meeting last night, bigdog_ut... thanks for presenting |
| 14:40.41 | *** join/#uphpu jakea (~jakea@jamestkirk.byu.edu) |
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| 14:48.45 | bigdog_ut | macnewbold, thanks! |
| 14:51.27 | macnewbold | oh, good, wps is here now |
| 14:51.47 | macnewbold | we had a good chat after the meeting about what direction to go with the training classes |
| 14:52.08 | macnewbold | and wade had a great idea, about using a UPHPU group project as a vehicle for training classes |
| 14:52.29 | macnewbold | in other words, we'll take a group project, and take it from start to finish |
| 14:52.39 | macnewbold | by having training classes about each step in the process |
| 14:53.01 | macnewbold | so at the beginning, we'd do stuff like getting the right answers from your client, |
| 14:53.08 | macnewbold | setting up your php infrastructure, |
| 14:53.17 | macnewbold | designing your database |
| 14:53.27 | macnewbold | graphic design 101 for programmers |
| 14:53.36 | macnewbold | and stuff like that |
| 14:53.48 | macnewbold | the move into some good SQL stuff, |
| 14:53.57 | macnewbold | php code style guidelines, |
| 14:54.08 | wps | indenting! :) |
| 14:54.18 | macnewbold | and other various topics needed by the project |
| 14:54.38 | macnewbold | (possibly file uploading, GD images, PDF generation, or whatever) |
| 14:54.44 | macnewbold | in a very hands-on way |
| 14:54.48 | macnewbold | since we'll actually be building it |
| 14:55.13 | macnewbold | so we'll know it's all kept in the most practical sense, |
| 14:55.25 | macnewbold | and we'll have one big example to use in all the training classes |
| 14:55.33 | dataw0lf|w | that's possibly the absolute best way you could take it, bravo. |
| 14:55.48 | macnewbold | we talked about setting up a mysql server on uphpu.org, and probably a cvs server |
| 14:55.59 | macnewbold | or perhaps using sourceforge instead of our own cvs |
| 14:56.08 | dataw0lf|w | eh. |
| 14:56.09 | dataw0lf|w | svn |
| 14:56.12 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 14:56.16 | dataw0lf|w | ;) |
| 14:56.37 | bigdog_ut | i could even set up a cvs/svn server too |
| 14:56.38 | macnewbold | I have no major issues either way, other than that I have no experience with subversion, and that cvs is probably more widely used |
| 14:57.02 | bigdog_ut | cvs is but svn is really moving forward |
| 14:57.14 | dataw0lf|w | yeah, and it's not a HUGE transition from CVS to SVN |
| 14:57.16 | macnewbold | then we hook everybody up, who's interested, with an account to be able to access the database and stuff |
| 14:57.18 | bigdog_ut | if you can use cvs then you can use svn with no problems |
| 14:57.19 | dataw0lf|w | and I think just about everybody is doing it. |
| 14:57.35 | macnewbold | "c'mon, man, everybody's doing it!" |
| 14:57.38 | *** join/#uphpu xilch|h (~xilch@c-67-166-119-0.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 14:57.46 | bigdog_ut | i can even set up a postgresql database an even an oracle one if needs be |
| 14:57.48 | macnewbold | oh, xilch is here... party's over... |
| 14:57.50 | dataw0lf|w | well, talking from a stability / reliability standpoint here. |
| 14:57.59 | macnewbold | actually, bigdog, that's a great idea |
| 14:58.08 | *** join/#uphpu xilch (~xilch@c-67-166-119-0.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 14:58.11 | macnewbold | having our thing be compatible with mysql/pg/etc. |
| 14:58.14 | dataw0lf|w | oh no. |
| 14:58.14 | macnewbold | would be very cool |
| 14:58.16 | dataw0lf|w | three of em. |
| 14:58.59 | bigdog_ut | if you really want to learn sql then those are the dbs to use |
| 14:59.00 | macnewbold | we'd also probably need to do some install scripts, which gets into the more sysadmin side of web development |
| 14:59.08 | bigdog_ut | mysql,pgsql,oracle in that order too |
| 14:59.08 | macnewbold | yeah, bigdog_ut, I agree |
| 14:59.11 | macnewbold | yes |
| 14:59.27 | dataw0lf|w | sqlite? |
| 14:59.39 | macnewbold | yeah, if we're php5 compatible, we should do sqlite too |
| 15:00.03 | dataw0lf|w | but, I agree, mysql -> pgsql -> oracle. |
| 15:00.37 | bigdog_ut | does php4 use sqlite? |
| 15:00.44 | macnewbold | anyway, if this is sounding good to people, I'll draft up a couple of emails to get some threads started on the mailing list. |
| 15:00.54 | usynic | bigdog_ut: there's a pecl package |
| 15:01.00 | macnewbold | bigdog_ut: it can, but doesn't have to |
| 15:01.06 | usynic | but doesnt' come with it like php5 |
| 15:01.21 | bigdog_ut | so php5 really uses the sqlite stuff then |
| 15:01.24 | macnewbold | it's too bad the mailing list archives don't work |
| 15:01.28 | dataw0lf|w | yeah, SQLite got bundled with PHP 5, but it was available earlier. |
| 15:01.56 | bigdog_ut | but how does sqlite do with sql standards? |
| 15:02.07 | usynic | pretty well considering. |
| 15:02.21 | bigdog_ut | does it follow atleast sql92 standard? |
| 15:02.26 | dataw0lf|w | I believe it does. |
| 15:02.28 | usynic | it follows a subset. |
| 15:02.29 | dataw0lf|w | I could be mistaken. |
| 15:02.50 | usynic | here are the features it doesn't support from sql92: http://sqlite.org/omitted.html |
| 15:02.53 | macnewbold | anyone here know how to fix the uphpu mailing list archives? |
| 15:03.00 | dataw0lf|w | what's the problems? |
| 15:03.02 | bigdog_ut | then if you are teaching sql i would not use sqlite for that but pgsql or oracle |
| 15:03.14 | dataw0lf|w | problem(s) |
| 15:03.37 | bigdog_ut | mysql is kinda close...but there are some things that i would not teach that are mysql types |
| 15:03.59 | dataw0lf|w | I think MySQL is good for beginners who don't understand the basics of SQL. |
| 15:04.15 | dataw0lf|w | Postgres, Intermediate and + |
| 15:04.21 | dataw0lf|w | Haven't done much with Oracle. |
| 15:04.50 | bigdog_ut | postgresql is good for beginners too |
| 15:04.56 | bigdog_ut | there really isnt much about it |
| 15:05.06 | macnewbold | if we can't fix the mailing list archives, we ought to just set up some new ones that work... these have been dead for 2 months |
| 15:05.29 | macnewbold | hehe... "Java portability"... yeah, whatever |
| 15:05.47 | bigdog_ut | usynic, you dont know how right you are |
| 15:05.58 | bigdog_ut | cause they are still useing like jvm 1.1.8 lol |
| 15:06.25 | dataw0lf|w | macnewbold: uses Mailman, correct? |
| 15:06.39 | macnewbold | dataw0lf: yeah, Mailman and pipermail, IIRC |
| 15:06.52 | dataw0lf|w | huh, what exactly is wrong? the arch script broken ? |
| 15:06.57 | macnewbold | something like that |
| 15:07.01 | macnewbold | wps knows more about it than I |
| 15:07.12 | macnewbold | no new mail is getting put into the archives |
| 15:07.25 | dataw0lf|w | yeah, arch probably isn't cronned or something. |
| 15:07.26 | macnewbold | but as far as wps and others who have looked can tell, it should be set up correctly |
| 15:07.47 | macnewbold | dataw0lf: if you have a sec to take a look, wade has an acct he can let you log into |
| 15:08.04 | wps | yeah |
| 15:08.06 | wps | I need some help |
| 15:08.09 | wps | I can't figure it out |
| 15:08.16 | wps | and haven't had time this past month with school |
| 15:08.22 | macnewbold | and if you know a good way to add the messages that were missed, I've got copies of all of them I think |
| 15:08.31 | wps | I have been planning on trying again in a few days when finals are over |
| 15:08.45 | dataw0lf|w | well, I'm at work right now, i can probably take a look at lunch, if you want me to, wps. |
| 15:08.50 | wps | macnewbold: it's possible |
| 15:08.54 | macnewbold | sweet |
| 15:09.00 | wps | sure, dataw0lf |
| 15:09.06 | macnewbold | I really miss archives... |
| 15:09.09 | dataw0lf|w | word |
| 15:09.18 | wps | me too... it's made me mad that they haven't been working |
| 15:09.20 | dataw0lf|w | /msg me the login info. |
| 15:16.02 | macnewbold | sweet |
| 15:17.24 | wps | will do |
| 15:19.09 | bigdog_ut | wps, which email you want the presentation sent too? |
| 15:31.24 | dataw0lf|w | mmm distcc |
| 15:31.31 | dataw0lf|w | I really do <3 it. |
| 15:36.22 | *** join/#uphpu beandog (~sdibb@64.50.56.200) |
| 15:36.27 | beandog | dataw0lf: you're my hero |
| 15:36.59 | beandog | That samba fix worked, thx |
| 15:37.24 | dataw0lf|w | ah, that was you? |
| 15:37.28 | dataw0lf|w | no problem. |
| 15:37.50 | beandog | I figured it was something stupid. |
| 15:38.01 | beandog | I kept trying to change the user in global, and samba would lockup on me. |
| 15:38.15 | dataw0lf|w | ah, hehe. |
| 15:38.21 | dataw0lf|w | Samba is a bit tricky. |
| 15:38.48 | beandog | If I put guest ok, force user, group in [global], it should apply to all the directories, right? |
| 15:39.15 | dataw0lf|w | it should, aye |
| 15:39.22 | dataw0lf|w | have you seen the free o'reilly samba book? |
| 15:39.22 | beandog | Ok, thanks :D |
| 15:39.23 | dataw0lf|w | http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/samba/chapter/book/index.html |
| 15:39.25 | beandog | No? |
| 15:39.32 | beandog | Cool |
| 15:39.35 | beandog | thx again |
| 15:39.38 | dataw0lf|w | np |
| 15:48.45 | beandog | Crap. |
| 15:48.56 | beandog | I can browse it on Linux, but on Windows it pops up a uname/pwd dialog box. |
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| 16:18.13 | macnewbold | okay, messages sent to UPHPU list... let's see what we can put together |
| 16:18.26 | macnewbold | this is pretty exciting... I think these classes are going to be really helpful. |
| 16:21.20 | bigdog_ut | man that new job posting...glorified tech support |
| 16:21.57 | bigdog_ut | probably pays like $10/hr |
| 16:22.22 | dataw0lf|w | ah 'desktop support/troubleshooting' |
| 16:22.28 | dataw0lf|w | yeah, sounds like it's a sand trap. |
| 16:22.30 | bigdog_ut | man if you can find someone that knows latex really well...dude, you will pay for it |
| 16:22.45 | dataw0lf|w | I hate seeing that type of thing. |
| 16:23.14 | bigdog_ut | no doubt..we want a linux guru that is a windows expert |
| 16:23.28 | bigdog_ut | i can tell you a linux guru will not want to support windows |
| 16:23.35 | bigdog_ut | if he has the choice |
| 16:23.36 | dataw0lf|w | preaching to the choir. |
| 16:24.06 | bigdog_ut | just venting...pisses me off royally |
| 16:24.22 | dataw0lf|w | it looks like they're going for the 'all in one' package deal. |
| 16:24.37 | bigdog_ut | yeah...all in one...for 9.95/hr |
| 16:24.40 | dataw0lf|w | somebody probably quit. |
| 16:24.58 | bigdog_ut | left for more money no doubt |
| 16:25.10 | dataw0lf|w | probably. |
| 16:25.22 | asynic | where are you seeing this? |
| 16:25.30 | bigdog_ut | what really suprised me is the latex |
| 16:25.32 | asynic | oh wait. |
| 16:25.34 | asynic | sllug ? |
| 16:25.43 | bigdog_ut | plug and uphpu |
| 16:26.12 | dataw0lf|w | and sllug now |
| 16:26.16 | bigdog_ut | oh |
| 16:26.28 | asynic | they forgot to put "furniture mover" on there. |
| 16:26.38 | bigdog_ut | and electrician |
| 16:27.04 | dataw0lf|w | toilet paper replacer |
| 16:27.08 | bigdog_ut | lol |
| 16:28.10 | bigdog_ut | fire place stocker |
| 16:28.43 | bigdog_ut | phd in communications and business |
| 16:28.44 | dataw0lf|w | carpet stain remover |
| 16:28.58 | bigdog_ut | corporate dog walker |
| 16:29.26 | dataw0lf|w | boss ego booster |
| 16:29.36 | bigdog_ut | extensive qwest customer service experiences "in action" |
| 16:30.05 | bigdog_ut | gum under table remover |
| 16:30.21 | bigdog_ut | 12 years f16 pilot experience |
| 16:31.43 | bigdog_ut | urinal cake cleaner |
| 16:32.00 | dataw0lf|w | paper clip chainer |
| 16:34.07 | bigdog_ut | those are just some of the skills we are looking at |
| 16:48.06 | *** join/#uphpu drip (~scoobmast@67.108.238.129.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 16:48.19 | *** join/#uphpu jsmith (~jsmith@64.50.35.114.2O7.net) |
| 16:52.34 | dataw0lf|w | sup jsmith |
| 16:52.57 | jsmith | Wrestling with DNS after moving my server |
| 16:53.12 | dataw0lf|w | always a pain. |
| 16:53.44 | jsmith | Usually its not too bad, but this time I forgot that I was self-hosting DNS for a particular domain, so now I have the chicken-and-egg problem. |
| 16:54.20 | dataw0lf|w | ah, indeed. |
| 16:54.45 | jsmith | As is the nameserver for www.example.com is dns.example.com, but dns.example.com and www.example.com are the same domain :-) |
| 16:54.55 | dataw0lf|w | hehe. |
| 16:55.46 | jsmith | Other than that, just putting out fires at work |
| 16:56.28 | dataw0lf|w | I've been lucky for the past few days, nothing that isn't fixable in 2 minutes. |
| 16:57.18 | jsmith | That's cool... I've been about two days behind for the past several weeks :-) |
| 17:03.41 | *** join/#uphpu jsmith_ (~jsmith@pip.drs1.omniture.com) |
| 17:04.56 | jsmith | Had to change my default gw |
| 17:10.35 | *** join/#uphpu fungus (~fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 17:25.02 | *** join/#uphpu optikal (optikal@64.50.125.203) |
| 17:36.12 | *** join/#uphpu drewbono (~andrew@c-67-161-242-223.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 17:39.21 | *** join/#uphpu tierra (~tierra@dsl093-225-126.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 17:52.35 | scott | any of you guys really good with CSS? I'm having a heck of a time finding out why some of my links have more padding (or margin, or line-height, not sure) on the top in IE than in firefox. |
| 17:54.55 | optikal | wsup |
| 17:54.57 | optikal | got a link? |
| 17:55.24 | *** join/#uphpu xilch|w (~xilch@66.239.17.226.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 19:13.07 | *** join/#uphpu drewbono (~andrew@byu176783wks.rn.byu.edu) |
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| 19:23.02 | macnewbold | scott: I'm on my lunch break and could take a quick look |
| 19:23.29 | *** join/#uphpu AI|alt|work (~AI|alt@67.108.238.3.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 19:24.41 | macnewbold | ~therealALT |
| 19:24.46 | macnewbold | ~ALT |
| 19:24.47 | jbot | Alt is telephone button (Contacts), shift is Q-menu, control is Arrow, Audiorecord is mod2, Calendar is mod3 |
| 19:24.55 | macnewbold | ~Al|alt |
| 19:25.17 | therealALT | rgr |
| 19:25.25 | macnewbold | welcome, therealALT |
| 19:25.34 | macnewbold | have we seen you in here before? |
| 19:25.51 | therealALT | on occasion |
| 19:26.04 | therealALT | probably not for 3 months or so |
| 19:26.25 | macnewbold | glad to have you back... have we met in person yet? if so, who are you? |
| 19:26.36 | therealALT | lol alice |
| 19:27.05 | macnewbold | ~xnote |
| 19:27.28 | macnewbold | jbot doesn't seem to know anything about you... |
| 19:28.18 | xnote | macnewbold, are you related to my good friend Alice the robot? |
| 19:28.27 | xnote | she's just like you |
| 19:28.46 | macnewbold | distant relative, probably |
| 19:28.52 | xnote | does it use the alice db? or its own? |
| 19:29.03 | macnewbold | who? |
| 19:29.46 | xnote | a human will have to field that question. |
| 19:33.06 | macnewbold | I'm sorry, I don't understand. Please rephrase your question. |
| 19:47.11 | drip | ha ha |
| 19:47.32 | drip | ~lart xnote |
| 19:47.50 | dataw0lf|w | hm. Appropriate. |
| 19:48.11 | xnote | too much fun |
| 19:48.28 | drip | yeah, you shouldn't have such fun while at work. |
| 19:48.51 | xnote | i loaded that alice thing in the clan channel |
| 19:48.57 | xnote | frylock couldn't handle it |
| 19:49.27 | dataw0lf|w | I bet. |
| 19:49.46 | drip | with his vast experience!? |
| 19:49.57 | xnote | i think partially they were confused, due to the whole "artificial intelligence" double meaning |
| 19:52.27 | drip | but doesn't frylock have experience with paper clip connecting? maybe he'd be good for a certain job mentioned earlier in here. |
| 19:53.10 | xnote | lol |
| 19:53.13 | optikal | ooh ooh. |
| 19:53.17 | optikal | we're talking about Aqua Teen. |
| 19:53.50 | xnote | well just cause his name is derrived from there doesn't mean he has anything to do with aqua teen |
| 19:53.53 | dataw0lf|w | yeah, optikal, xnote is a HUGE fan. You should get to know him. |
| 19:53.59 | optikal | aah |
| 19:54.05 | optikal | all I read was 'frylock' |
| 19:54.08 | optikal | and typed my message. =P |
| 19:54.10 | optikal | <3 Aqua Teen. |
| 19:54.10 | xnote | heh yep |
| 19:54.10 | drip | lol |
| 19:54.17 | optikal | Ive got all the episodes. |
| 19:54.22 | optikal | dataw0lf|w: nice. |
| 19:55.11 | dataw0lf|w | I'm not coughing up blood. |
| 19:55.58 | dataw0lf|w | Thanks! |
| 19:56.12 | optikal | but of course. |
| 19:56.37 | dataw0lf|w | sir, I'm offended that you assume I am a smoker. |
| 19:56.39 | dataw0lf|w | Smoking is bad for you. |
| 19:57.05 | optikal | Sorry for assuming, but I can only assume.. since.. I dont know you at all... |
| 19:57.13 | optikal | but.. you just seem like that kind of person.. |
| 19:57.31 | optikal | Smoking is bad for me.. Bad if I dont have any, because my stress level goes up! |
| 19:57.32 | optikal | =) |
| 19:58.28 | xnote | it's amazing how one little typo can cost you an hour |
| 19:59.47 | optikal | yek. |
| 20:03.05 | dataw0lf|w | optikal: you should've seen my boss's face at my old job when I told him for the first time on break I was going to smoke a cigarette. |
| 20:03.19 | dataw0lf|w | He had this look of shocked horror, like I'd just told him I enjoyed killing babies or something. |
| 20:06.31 | optikal | haha |
| 20:07.32 | optikal | Most of the time I dont smoke at work.. but generally depends on the mood. |
| 20:07.49 | optikal | Infact, I dont even have any with me.. but I do want one.. and thats always how it is.. you want what you dont have! |
| 20:11.08 | bigdog_ut | ~melvin spiderbiter |
| 20:11.10 | jbot | ACTION pulls spiderbiter underwear up to the ceiling...and smiles |
| 20:12.02 | drip | you're such a meany bigdog_ut |
| 20:13.33 | macnewbold | wow... 25 people in here... but I guess by the time you take out all the doubles, it's only in the teens... :) |
| 20:14.34 | drip | it's bigdog_ut's fault. |
| 20:18.38 | *** join/#uphpu wps (~wps@71.32.228.156) |
| 20:18.41 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 20:21.16 | bigdog_ut | lol |
| 20:21.26 | bigdog_ut | ~whaleslap spiderbiter |
| 20:21.28 | jbot | ACTION slaps spiderbiter upside and over the head with one freakishly huge killer whale named hugh |
| 20:21.40 | drip | ~squirrelslap xnote |
| 20:21.49 | drip | who ran off with the squirrel? |
| 20:23.07 | bigdog_ut | ~insult drip |
| 20:23.22 | bigdog_ut | hence the name "drip" |
| 20:23.24 | macnewbold | ~drip |
| 20:23.25 | jbot | hmm... drip is drop, or lollypop |
| 20:23.30 | drip | shh.. that's my ancient chinese secret. |
| 20:23.34 | bigdog_ut | drip, check your im slacker |
| 20:23.51 | macnewbold | jbot, drip is also nothing but an impertinent thimbleful of antique anal warts, according to jbot |
| 20:23.52 | jbot | okay, macnewbold |
| 20:23.55 | macnewbold | ~drip |
| 20:23.56 | jbot | hmm... drip is drop, or lollypop, or nothing but an impertinent thimbleful of antique anal warts, according to jbot |
| 20:24.20 | macnewbold | ~lart everyone |
| 20:24.31 | macnewbold | ~lart everbody |
| 20:24.34 | macnewbold | ~lart all y'all |
| 20:25.41 | spiderbiter | wow! It's a regular bloodbath here today! |
| 20:27.35 | macnewbold | hey now! we'll have none of that in here! |
| 20:27.42 | macnewbold | ~clue spiderbiter |
| 20:27.45 | jbot | ACTION fans out Vegas-style a stack of clues for spiderbiter "Pick one, any one! ...and don't show it to me." |
| 20:27.53 | macnewbold | ~clue spiderbiter |
| 20:27.55 | jbot | ACTION fans out Vegas-style a stack of clues for spiderbiter "Pick one, any one! ...and don't show it to me." |
| 20:28.03 | macnewbold | ~cluebat spiderbiter |
| 20:28.05 | jbot | ACTION pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps spiderbiter. |
| 20:30.25 | spiderbiter | ClueBat, eh? |
| 20:30.44 | spiderbiter | Trademarked even |
| 20:31.25 | bigdog_ut | ~scrable i am the BigDog! |
| 20:31.29 | bigdog_ut | ~scramble i am the BigDog! |
| 20:32.01 | drip | ~google BlueBat |
| 20:32.05 | spiderbiter | jbot, what is a ClueBat |
| 20:32.07 | jbot | spiderbiter: what are you talking about? |
| 20:32.18 | drip | ~google ClueBat |
| 20:32.24 | drip | lol nice typo |
| 20:32.58 | bigdog_ut | ~slap drip |
| 20:33.00 | jbot | ACTION slaps drip, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 20:33.08 | macnewbold | ~lart drip |
| 20:33.16 | drip | keep ' |
| 20:33.23 | macnewbold | if I meant whaleslap, jbot, I would have said whaleslap! |
| 20:33.26 | drip | keep 'em coming.. i'm a wall |
| 20:33.33 | macnewbold | ~lart hisself |
| 20:33.34 | bigdog_ut | ~piglatin i am nothing but a drip |
| 20:33.37 | drip | i can take the pain. |
| 20:33.50 | macnewbold | ~piglatin lart drip |
| 20:33.57 | macnewbold | ~artlay ipdray |
| 20:34.03 | macnewbold | ~lart someone |
| 20:34.09 | macnewbold | ah, the clue-by-4 |
| 20:34.15 | bigdog_ut | ~labotomy spiderbiter |
| 20:34.18 | macnewbold | ~clue-by-4 spiderbiter |
| 20:34.39 | bigdog_ut | ~lobotomy spiderbiter |
| 20:34.41 | jbot | ACTION pulls out a rusty saw to perform a lobotomy on spiderbiter |
| 20:34.42 | drip | ~lart bigdog-o-matic |
| 20:35.07 | macnewbold | ~whip macnewbold |
| 20:35.30 | macnewbold | ~lash macnewbold |
| 20:35.43 | macnewbold | ~punish macnewbold |
| 20:35.45 | jbot | ACTION forces macnewbold to install and use Suse |
| 20:35.48 | macnewbold | eww |
| 20:35.50 | macnewbold | gross |
| 20:36.01 | macnewbold | okay, I give... I'll get back to work |
| 20:37.06 | bigdog_ut | ~dropkick macnewbold |
| 20:37.08 | jbot | ACTION sends macnewbold flying like a yipping chihuahua |
| 20:37.18 | bigdog_ut | that would be a site |
| 20:37.36 | macnewbold | yeah, i don't yip |
| 20:37.43 | macnewbold | and I'm a lot heavier than a chihuahua |
| 20:38.58 | macnewbold | not as aerodynamic, either, as far as I can tell |
| 20:39.12 | bigdog_ut | u never know |
| 20:41.24 | drip | depends on the velocity of the kick. |
| 20:41.42 | drip | and if it was an african or european kick |
| 20:45.11 | macnewbold | 42 |
| 20:46.55 | dataw0lf|w | laden or unladen? |
| 20:47.59 | drip | unladen. |
| 20:49.14 | bigdog_ut | im laden |
| 20:55.36 | drip | jbot, bigdog_ut is also laden |
| 20:55.37 | jbot | okay, drip |
| 20:55.46 | drip | bigdog_ut? |
| 20:56.04 | drip | ~bigdog_ut? |
| 20:56.05 | jbot | it has been said that bigdog_ut is Mullet Man, a.k.a. El Perro Loco, or "the gimp", or known as the schwagmeister, or a big meany, or laden |
| 20:56.07 | macnewbold | bin laden |
| 20:56.22 | macnewbold | ~macnewbold |
| 20:56.23 | jbot | well, macnewbold is professional up front and a party in the back, or a cookie monster |
| 20:56.30 | macnewbold | ~cookie |
| 20:56.33 | macnewbold | ~brownie |
| 20:56.34 | macnewbold | ~cake |
| 20:56.35 | jbot | i heard cake is all gone :( |
| 20:56.45 | macnewbold | ~cookie |
| 20:56.57 | macnewbold | ~styrofoam desk |
| 20:56.58 | jbot | extra, extra, read all about it, styrofoam desk is what happens when you're pushed too far, or http://psifertex.com/gallery/mydesk |
| 21:01.11 | macnewbold | funny |
| 21:32.57 | wps | my company is in the process of defining a coding standard |
| 21:37.40 | wps | can anyone direct me to some online documentation of general standards to use as reference? |
| 21:38.34 | dataw0lf|w | what type of standards? style and naming conventions? |
| 21:38.57 | wps | yeah |
| 21:39.17 | dataw0lf|w | http://www.chris-lott.org/resources/cstyle/ |
| 21:41.49 | wps | so in regards to last night's conversation about coding—indenting specifically |
| 21:41.49 | dataw0lf|w | as long as you remember consistency is the key, you'll be fine. |
| 21:41.55 | wps | is there a standard? |
| 21:42.02 | dataw0lf|w | all sorts of standards. |
| 21:42.04 | wps | I honestly thought that four spaces was the standard |
| 21:42.10 | wps | I have seen that all over |
| 21:42.17 | dataw0lf|w | I use tab. |
| 21:42.26 | dataw0lf|w | Always and forever. |
| 21:42.31 | wps | four is the default in Zend |
| 21:42.36 | wps | Aike! |
| 21:42.51 | jsmith | Tabs! |
| 21:43.18 | wps | really? |
| 21:43.19 | jsmith | Then *you* can set your default tab expansion to whatever *you* want! |
| 21:43.29 | jsmith | And I can have it my way :-) |
| 21:43.29 | dataw0lf|w | that's the basic premise. |
| 21:43.38 | jsmith | (without passing everything through "indent") |
| 21:43.50 | eco|w | Yeah, I'm a tabs man. |
| 21:44.00 | dataw0lf|w | Almost everyone I know uses tabs, honestly. |
| 21:44.16 | eco|w | I hate people that are too lazy to just change their tab settings so they define a standard so they don't have to ever. |
| 21:44.50 | dataw0lf|w | who you talking about? Harm? |
| 21:45.04 | tierra | harm actually uses tabs =) |
| 21:45.13 | dataw0lf|w | woot. |
| 21:45.33 | eco|w | No...usually it's hardcore *nix guys that do this. |
| 21:45.33 | tierra | it's odd weird quirks about harm's coding style that stand out |
| 21:45.40 | eco|w | Academic types. |
| 21:45.46 | jsmith | wps: The more I think about it, I think a good healthy discussion on coding standards would be a great meeting topic |
| 21:46.01 | wps | jsmith, I thought you said you used three spaces last night |
| 21:46.02 | dataw0lf|w | that'd probably degenerate into people getting hurt. |
| 21:46.04 | eco|w | No spaces after any comma is the best way to tell it's Harm's code. |
| 21:47.36 | dataw0lf|w | I like making fun of goto people. |
| 21:49.47 | dataw0lf|w | http://www.boingboing.net/2005/04/20/berkeley_laptop_thie.html |
| 22:02.27 | tierra | heh |
| 22:02.43 | jsmith | wps: I set my tabs to show up as three spaces :-) |
| 22:03.43 | macnewbold | I'm a four spaces guy, sometimes two spaces |
| 22:03.49 | macnewbold | 8 is way too much though |
| 22:04.19 | macnewbold | and I'm viewing my files as plain text via the command line or "less" too often to want ot mess with setting 8char tabs to display as 4 or 2 |
| 22:04.25 | jsmith | The problem isn't one of "how many", it's a problem of "spaces or tabs" |
| 22:05.40 | macnewbold | my emacs uses tabs to replace 8 spaces, and then of course spaces to add 4 more |
| 22:06.23 | tierra | yeah, default emacs tab is set at 8 spaces, which I'm not entirely fond of... I like about 4 |
| 22:06.38 | macnewbold | actually, in php, I use 2 spaces, now that I think about it |
| 22:07.15 | macnewbold | consistency is the most important thing, and not having reindenting wars on group projects |
| 22:08.00 | macnewbold | I also can't stand it when people put their { on the line after the while/if/whatever and have it be the only thing on the line. Especially when they indent the { 8 chars, then the code after it another 8 chars. |
| 22:08.05 | macnewbold | drives me nuts |
| 22:08.35 | tierra | I used to be in the habit of doing: |
| 22:08.38 | tierra | while() { |
| 22:08.38 | tierra | } |
| 22:08.52 | tierra | but here at work, we've made the desicion to do it like this |
| 22:08.54 | tierra | while() |
| 22:08.55 | tierra | { |
| 22:08.56 | tierra | } |
| 22:09.06 | tierra | (curlies on their own line) |
| 22:09.15 | tierra | took a while to get used to, but now I actually like it |
| 22:09.22 | fungus | I like your first example. |
| 22:11.00 | asynic | I like the second example, but use the first when coding java just to follow sun's standards. |
| 22:11.27 | tierra | sun defines a standard like that? |
| 22:11.34 | dataw0lf|w | Java has it's own standard. |
| 22:12.04 | dataw0lf|w | and I prefer the first example. |
| 22:12.15 | wps | I hate the opening curly being on the same line as the if/while/foreach |
| 22:12.26 | asynic | tierra: yeah, Sun has Java coding standards. |
| 22:12.26 | dataw0lf|w | I love it. |
| 22:12.41 | asynic | tierra: I didn't care about them until people started submitting code that was totally different from mine. |
| 22:12.45 | wps | makes no sense, except to make your code shorter (in length), but legibility is more important to me then number of lines |
| 22:12.58 | wps | curlies should line up vertically |
| 22:12.58 | dataw0lf|w | I don't see how it's illegible at all. |
| 22:13.31 | wps | it's not illegible... it's less legible |
| 22:13.39 | tierra | wps, yeah, I've come to that conclusion as well... readability is more important than line count... I like being able to easily match curlies |
| 22:13.56 | dataw0lf|w | that's what an editor is for. |
| 22:14.02 | dataw0lf|w | and indentation. |
| 22:14.07 | wps | when the curlies are on their own line, then line up vertically and then you can instantly see each set |
| 22:14.23 | tierra | it's not hard to match them the first way, but it is definately easier to match and read the second way after working this way for 120,000 lines of code |
| 22:14.27 | fungus | but if you have a good editor (emacs), it will highlight the matching brace/parentheses/etc. |
| 22:14.48 | dataw0lf|w | I understand the logic, I just don't understand why you have to do it. |
| 22:14.53 | dataw0lf|w | as fungus said |
| 22:14.54 | tierra | good editor or not, it's still easier |
| 22:15.00 | wps | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:15.23 | wps | fungus, even with it highlighted, it's still visually easier as you glance over the document |
| 22:15.25 | tierra | dataw0lf|w, it's like you said earlier, it's consistency |
| 22:15.32 | dataw0lf|w | tierra: exactly. |
| 22:15.40 | wps | absolutely |
| 22:15.41 | dataw0lf|w | reading code like that throws me off. |
| 22:15.51 | dataw0lf|w | I can match the way I do it (first example) easier. |
| 22:15.56 | fungus | My mind is already trained to match curlies with conditional statements. |
| 22:16.24 | dataw0lf|w | as long as you're indenting consistently, all that matters is naming conventions. |
| 22:16.29 | fungus | or other keywords like function, class, etc. |
| 22:16.38 | dataw0lf|w | and, oh lord, how people's naming conventions just kill me. |
| 22:17.00 | dataw0lf|w | classThisIsMyClass |
| 22:17.11 | tierra | hehe, yeah, naming conventions are what's a pain, curlies are nothing |
| 22:17.34 | dataw0lf|w | I saw this one: |
| 22:17.41 | dataw0lf|w | $iterator = 0; |
| 22:17.49 | dataw0lf|w | err |
| 22:18.09 | dataw0lf|w | for($iterator=0;$iterator < $blah;$iterator++) |
| 22:18.12 | dataw0lf|w | um |
| 22:18.21 | dataw0lf|w | just use $i you idiot! |
| 22:18.21 | wps | dataw0lf: you do or do not like "classThisIsMyClass" ? |
| 22:18.25 | dataw0lf|w | I hate it. |
| 22:18.41 | wps | how do you name classes? |
| 22:18.55 | dataw0lf|w | cClass |
| 22:18.59 | tierra | the only really strict naming convention we're anal about here is m_wordCapsWord for class member variables |
| 22:19.06 | wps | (called: studly caps or camel case) |
| 22:19.16 | tierra | and CapsClass |
| 22:20.12 | dataw0lf|w | or, even worse, SQL naming conventiosn. |
| 22:20.13 | tierra | I'm not entirely fond of leaving a letter in the variable name to indicate variable type unless it's specific |
| 22:20.16 | dataw0lf|w | conventions* |
| 22:20.24 | dataw0lf|w | I only do it with classes. |
| 22:21.02 | dataw0lf|w | I hate : multiple caps, underscores except for functions, |
| 22:21.16 | dataw0lf|w | fFunction, god I hate that. |
| 22:21.42 | dataw0lf|w | how bout does_this(); you wanks?? |
| 22:22.30 | wps | _much_ more legible than camel case (doesThis(); ) |
| 22:22.39 | dataw0lf|w | yeah, no kidding. |
| 22:22.46 | asynic | I'm all about standards ... if everyone who is working on a project uses the same, it's better. |
| 22:23.00 | wps | camel case is the standard in actionscript and it drives me nuts |
| 22:23.12 | asynic | and when random people in Russia are submitting code, the only way for them to submit coding standards that are the same as yours is to actually follow a set standard. |
| 22:23.26 | dataw0lf|w | and somebody who declares a constant in anything but CAPS |
| 22:23.59 | wps | that one isn't really debatable |
| 22:24.05 | wps | in my opinion |
| 22:24.07 | dataw0lf|w | oh, trust me, I've seen it before. |
| 22:24.13 | dataw0lf|w | you wouldn't think it's debatable. |
| 22:24.14 | dataw0lf|w | but it is. |
| 22:24.36 | dataw0lf|w | or people who go crazy on the underscores |
| 22:24.50 | dataw0lf|w | this_is_my_variable_i_use_for_three_lines_of_code |
| 22:24.59 | wps | :) |
| 22:25.18 | wps | I get a little underscore happy some times, but I'm not that bad |
| 22:25.48 | drip | ijustliketonameallofmyvariablesjustlikethisbecauseitiseasytoread. |
| 22:26.27 | dataw0lf|w | you guys use any special notation for session vars? |
| 22:26.39 | tierra | I don't know of anyone personally who would argue non-all-caps for constants... |
| 22:26.58 | dataw0lf|w | tierra: I'll show you some code then. |
| 22:30.15 | dataw0lf|w | also, enum members that are not all caps too. |
| 22:30.21 | dataw0lf|w | basically constants. |
| 22:31.08 | dataw0lf|w | whoa, time to leave work, |
| 22:31.17 | tierra | show me another time |
| 22:31.29 | dataw0lf|w | I wasn't going to show you right now. |
| 22:31.31 | wps | oh shoot |
| 22:31.38 | wps | dataw0lf: forgot about the archives |
| 22:31.41 | tierra | in that case, I want to see it right now~! |
| 22:31.52 | wps | I'll try and catch you later |
| 22:32.05 | dataw0lf|w | wps: ok, priv them to dataw0lf (not dataw0lf|w) and I'll work on it tonight. |
| 22:32.26 | wps | k |
| 22:32.30 | dataw0lf|w | tierra, optikal, synic, anyone else who wants to, I'm looking for something to do tonight, give me old cell a call |
| 22:32.34 | dataw0lf|w | 688 9433 |
| 22:32.42 | tierra | alright |
| 22:32.43 | dataw0lf|w | out |
| 22:35.27 | optikal | werd |