| 00:00.49 | dataw0lf | man, I just completely destroyed my hair. I guess that's the end of the self haircut project. |
| 00:02.16 | optikal | haha.. yeah, thats why i don't do that shit |
| 00:02.24 | optikal | i know i would destroy mine |
| 00:11.56 | wps | I cut my own hair every two weeks from 1997 to 2004 |
| 00:11.58 | *** join/#uphpu scott (scott@crackaddict.com) |
| 00:12.15 | scott | what's wade from the website's nick? |
| 00:12.26 | wps | then my wife got me to see that I looked like I was in the marines and I grew it out and started going to a salon |
| 00:12.29 | wps | wps = wade |
| 00:12.38 | scott | oh, I thought there were two wades |
| 00:12.44 | wps | not that I am aware of |
| 00:13.15 | scott | I sent you an email a few weeks ago asking for more info about the business innovation breakfast |
| 00:13.37 | wps | did I not reply to it? |
| 00:13.48 | scott | if you did I didn't receive it.. |
| 00:13.56 | wps | hmm... thought I di |
| 00:13.57 | wps | did |
| 00:14.08 | scott | how can I find out when the next one is? |
| 00:14.18 | wps | I don't know anything more about the breakfast than is on in the article, sorry |
| 00:15.05 | scott | how did you find out about it? |
| 00:15.25 | wps | someone submitted the article |
| 00:15.29 | scott | ahh |
| 00:16.48 | synic | scott: how's the thinkpad? |
| 00:17.09 | scott | hehe, so so |
| 00:17.14 | synic | so so ? |
| 00:17.24 | scott | well it's currently at IBM :) |
| 00:17.37 | synic | ack |
| 00:17.46 | scott | I bought it off ebay and apparently when the owner shipped it to me something got messed up with the video ram |
| 00:18.00 | scott | so it was putting a bunch of artifacts on the screen |
| 00:18.06 | synic | ebay is the devil. |
| 00:18.11 | scott | well, not bad. |
| 00:18.19 | scott | I mean, the owner has offered me a full refund |
| 00:18.30 | synic | well, not bad, but it's just you always have to mess with stuff. |
| 00:18.35 | synic | you can't just buy something and have it. |
| 00:18.53 | scott | ueah |
| 00:18.58 | synic | (I'm biased, I've been screwed a few |
| 00:19.17 | scott | I realized that one thing that's always left out of the debate between different laptops (powerbook & thinkpad) is the warranty |
| 00:19.26 | synic | but, alas, I got mine off of ebay too. |
| 00:19.38 | scott | you should add $250 to the powerbook price to accurately compare them |
| 00:20.29 | synic | my cdrom has trouble ejecting on this thinkpad... |
| 00:20.38 | synic | I have a warranty... but I don't want to have to send anything in |
| 00:20.53 | scott | have you ever sent stuff in? |
| 00:20.56 | scott | to IBM |
| 00:21.01 | synic | no. |
| 00:21.10 | scott | mine hasn't come back, but it's great I think |
| 00:21.39 | scott | very quick, the box the service drops off is super padded |
| 00:21.46 | scott | overnight on everything |
| 00:22.19 | synic | did you just call ibm? |
| 00:22.31 | scott | yeah |
| 00:22.34 | scott | 1-800-ibm-serv |
| 00:23.02 | scott | I told them it needed a new systemboard, they filled out paperwork and that was it |
| 00:23.33 | scott | next day the box was here, I packed it, called for pick up, and today it arrived at ibm (I imagine) |
| 00:23.50 | scott | they should ship it out tomorrow and it should be here friday |
| 00:39.31 | macnewbold | how long ago was the laptop purchased (new), scott? They didn't care that you're not the original owner? |
| 00:41.02 | scott | macnewbold, a little less than 2 years |
| 00:41.07 | scott | they didn't care at all |
| 00:41.14 | scott | they never mentioned it |
| 00:41.53 | scott | the warranty is still good for longer than it would be if I bought almost any other laptop new right now |
| 00:48.54 | synic | crap, not in warranty. |
| 00:48.58 | synic | person that sold it to me said it was. |
| 00:49.01 | synic | ebay is the devil. |
| 00:59.46 | scott | you did the warantee lookup? |
| 00:59.50 | scott | or called? |
| 01:02.29 | synic | I called |
| 01:03.52 | scott | ebay is like gambling in a dozen ways |
| 01:04.42 | scott | off the top of my head, 1) once you get started you have to keep going. just bid once more and you'll win it. not! |
| 01:04.51 | scott | 2) you can win big or lose big |
| 01:05.06 | scott | 3-12 coming soon |
| 01:05.23 | dataw0lf | I've bought... 3 things off of ebay. |
| 01:05.33 | dataw0lf | and every time just used the buy it now feature. |
| 01:05.58 | scott | I've bought two. the keyboard was completely broken--sent it back, refund was easy. second, laptop is a bit messed up, but again refund possible |
| 01:06.28 | scott | yeah, if you use buy it now it's still like gambling in #2 |
| 01:06.32 | dataw0lf | still, ebay might be stupid in some ways... but I sure wish I was the brain behind that. |
| 01:06.34 | synic | I bought a zelda game... it never came |
| 01:06.44 | synic | ross used my account to buy some figurine, it came 6 months later |
| 01:06.46 | dataw0lf | synic: yeah, you have that problem alot. |
| 01:06.59 | synic | rick bought a dead motherboard |
| 01:07.28 | synic | and now the "warranty" expired before I actually purchased the machine |
| 01:08.39 | scott | where is ebay located? |
| 01:09.45 | synic | where else would the devil be located? |
| 01:10.04 | synic | alabama |
| 01:11.44 | scott | their press releases say san jose |
| 01:11.58 | scott | which would explain the bay part |
| 01:17.20 | fungus | eBay is too big to have a "location". |
| 01:29.04 | *** join/#uphpu wps (~wps@byu074602wks.rn.byu.edu) |
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| 02:20.21 | edgecast | can anyone recomend an sql syntax checker? |
| 02:27.58 | tierra | I CAN'T HELP YOU IF YOU DON'T STAY LONG ENOUGH FOR ME TO SEE YOUR QUESTION!!!! |
| 02:28.08 | tierra | sorry, had to get that out |
| 02:38.34 | dataw0lf | word |
| 03:56.06 | *** join/#uphpu wps (~wps@ns2.digis.net) |
| 03:56.16 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 03:59.37 | *** join/#uphpu dataw0lf (~dataw0lf@dataw0lf.org) |
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| 05:02.24 | *** join/#uphpu mindjuju (user@207.173.210.167) |
| 05:03.24 | bigdog_ut | top of the evenin' to ya all |
| 05:03.35 | mindjuju | howdy |
| 05:03.50 | bigdog_ut | mindjuju, whatz up bro? |
| 05:04.01 | mindjuju | just kickin it, keepin it real |
| 05:04.02 | mindjuju | u? |
| 05:04.23 | bigdog_ut | working on a project and messing around with xorg |
| 05:04.28 | bigdog_ut | xorg.conf |
| 05:04.33 | mindjuju | what's xorg? |
| 05:05.22 | bigdog_ut | xorg is an improved x11 |
| 05:07.35 | bigdog_ut | what are you up too? |
| 05:08.05 | mindjuju | researching that AJAX stuff to build a chat room |
| 05:08.23 | mindjuju | I've seen code for a simple chatroom, but looking to understand more of what is going on to make it beefier |
| 05:08.51 | bigdog_ut | ajax? |
| 05:09.02 | bigdog_ut | ~ajax |
| 05:09.26 | mindjuju | Asynchnous JavaScripting and XML |
| 05:09.48 | mindjuju | like on this page |
| 05:09.49 | mindjuju | http://maps.google.com/ |
| 05:09.57 | mindjuju | zoom in on the center of the US |
| 05:10.09 | mindjuju | then click on the upper left corner and drag down |
| 05:10.22 | mindjuju | it kicks the data to your browser without a screen reload |
| 05:10.53 | mindjuju | after I build the chatroom, I was thinking of writing something up for PHP meeting as either a lesson or an article |
| 05:11.18 | bigdog_ut | oh cool |
| 05:11.27 | bigdog_ut | why not just use socket connections? |
| 05:11.48 | mindjuju | not sure what are socket connections? |
| 05:12.07 | *** join/#uphpu wps (~wps@ns2.digis.net) |
| 05:12.10 | bigdog_ut | they are stateful connections |
| 05:12.16 | bigdog_ut | like some im services |
| 05:12.17 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 05:12.46 | mindjuju | whats the server load when using sockets? |
| 05:13.02 | bigdog_ut | we looked at doing something like that for a chat server and decided to use jabber server with web interface |
| 05:13.08 | bigdog_ut | very minimal |
| 06:40.57 | mindjuju | dataw0lf, u there? |
| 06:51.23 | *** join/#uphpu bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.192.70) |
| 06:51.23 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o bigdog_ut] by ChanServ |
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| 15:42.30 | bigdog_ut | mornin' all |
| 15:57.04 | macnewbold | mornin' |
| 15:57.52 | dataw0lf | mindjuju: I am now. |
| 16:05.21 | *** join/#uphpu optikal (~optikal@64.50.125.203) |
| 16:11.36 | bigdog_ut | jbot, welcome home |
| 16:11.38 | jbot | Howdy home | It is good to see you home | home, Sup yo? |
| 16:19.28 | *** join/#uphpu tbye (~tbye@69.27.4.131) |
| 16:54.09 | bigdog_ut | lol |
| 16:54.15 | bigdog_ut | jbot, welcome dataw0lf |
| 16:54.17 | jbot | Howdy dataw0lf | It is good to see you dataw0lf | dataw0lf, Sup yo? |
| 16:57.50 | *** join/#uphpu jsmith (~jsmith@pip.drs1.omniture.com) |
| 17:15.17 | macnewbold | jobt, welcome |
| 17:15.23 | macnewbold | jbot, welcome |
| 17:15.44 | macnewbold | jbot, welcome me |
| 17:15.47 | jbot | Howdy macnewbold | It is good to see you macnewbold | macnewbold, Sup yo? |
| 17:15.50 | macnewbold | jbot, stop talking to yourself |
| 17:15.52 | jbot | ACTION leaps to his feet and stops talking to yourself |
| 17:16.01 | macnewbold | hm |
| 17:37.52 | macnewbold | Anyone going to the PHP05 conference in San Francisco in October? |
| 17:38.06 | bigdog_ut | no money |
| 17:38.24 | bigdog_ut | unless you want to sponsor me |
| 17:49.50 | macnewbold | hehe, yeah bigdog_ut... right... |
| 17:50.00 | macnewbold | get your employer to pay for it :) |
| 17:50.15 | *** join/#uphpu fungus (~fungus@2001:470:1f00:645:20a:95ff:fec5:636a) |
| 17:51.17 | bigdog_ut | yeah...i already went to sanfran for traning |
| 17:51.34 | bigdog_ut | dude, not sure if they would like the whole php thing here |
| 18:03.40 | bigdog_ut | macnewbold, you going? |
| 18:03.57 | macnewbold | who knows... I just heard about it |
| 18:04.09 | bigdog_ut | yeah i heard about it today |
| 18:04.32 | macnewbold | but we've been planning to go to San Fran with the family this summer, so maybe we'll push it back to October and call it a business trip :) |
| 18:04.54 | bigdog_ut | yeah...that would be good...i love san fran |
| 18:25.44 | *** join/#uphpu usynic (~synic@c-67-172-242-219.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 18:27.24 | bigdog_ut | i like that uphpu job announcement...$20/hr...that is a nice boot to the head |
| 18:35.00 | *** join/#uphpu mindjuju (user@207.173.210.167) |
| 18:51.06 | *** join/#uphpu wps (~wps@71.32.228.156) |
| 18:51.09 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 19:08.39 | macnewbold | well, at least they state that the $20/hr job is for someone mid-level... |
| 19:08.49 | macnewbold | still, that's not a whole lot though. |
| 19:09.13 | dataw0lf | fo sho. |
| 19:11.48 | macnewbold | part of the problem is that the person who sent out the job posting isn't the actual client, but some type of headhunter/temp agency/service reseller, |
| 19:11.58 | macnewbold | which means they'll be taking a cut of what the client is actually going to pay. |
| 19:12.07 | dataw0lf | word. |
| 19:12.50 | macnewbold | my bet is that the client will actually be paying $25/hr and $30/hr while the headhunter will pay the programmer $20/hr and $25/hr for their work |
| 19:13.16 | dataw0lf | I'd not be surprised if they (the client) were paying more. |
| 19:13.51 | dataw0lf | RHT was being paid ~40/hour while I was getting 21/hour when I was with them. |
| 19:20.57 | macnewbold | RHT=??? |
| 19:21.00 | macnewbold | that's craziness |
| 19:21.44 | macnewbold | I hope that everybody boycotts the people who resell our services until they start paying reasonable money. |
| 19:22.14 | macnewbold | For a contracting job like that, that lasts a few months maybe, it should probably be at least $30/hr or more |
| 19:22.17 | dataw0lf | Robert Half Technology. |
| 19:22.27 | dataw0lf | macnewbold: Agreed. I was surely getting screwed. |
| 19:22.44 | macnewbold | Ah, so that's where they got the $20/hr amount when they were getting $40/hr: it's Half |
| 19:22.52 | macnewbold | jbot: rimshot, please |
| 19:22.53 | jbot | ch-ch-chhh |
| 19:23.07 | dataw0lf | hehe. |
| 19:32.02 | bigdog_ut | oh lunch was good today |
| 19:32.05 | bigdog_ut | now back to the grind |
| 19:50.34 | macnewbold | bigdog_ut: what'd you have? |
| 19:50.54 | bigdog_ut | oh a sweet pork burrito |
| 19:52.19 | bigdog_ut | funny -> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7346978/ |
| 19:54.11 | fungus | That is only funny because the gun didn't work. |
| 19:56.48 | macnewbold | yeah, that's pretty sad |
| 19:57.04 | macnewbold | the guy would have killed her dog over a bit of cash... |
| 19:57.10 | bigdog_ut | yeah |
| 19:58.01 | macnewbold | it would have been funnier if he didn't realize what he stole until after he was long gone... |
| 19:58.09 | fungus | If I lived there I would carry the poop bag in one hand, gun in the other. |
| 19:58.35 | fungus | No one is going to kill my dog and live. |
| 19:59.00 | bigdog_ut | kinda sad your dog can poop in peace |
| 20:46.12 | *** join/#uphpu tbye (~tbye@69.27.4.131) |
| 21:00.50 | bigdog_ut | ~hi dataw0lf |
| 21:00.52 | jbot | Many greetings, dataw0lf, most strange traveller, to this IRCdom of plenty. |
| 21:01.04 | bigdog_ut | you around dataw0lf |
| 21:02.31 | bigdog_ut | wps, you there? |
| 21:02.47 | wps | yup |
| 21:02.54 | bigdog_ut | i got a book for you |
| 21:03.15 | fungus | ~dance |
| 21:03.16 | jbot | ACTION does a disco dance. |
| 21:05.01 | bigdog_ut | wps, it is a book on css |
| 21:05.28 | wps | cool |
| 21:05.29 | bigdog_ut | www.csszengarden.com |
| 21:05.43 | wps | that's your book? |
| 21:05.59 | bigdog_ut | no those are the guys that wrote it |
| 21:06.06 | wps | ah |
| 21:09.13 | bigdog_ut | wps -> http://www.peachpit.com/title/0321303474 |
| 21:09.16 | bigdog_ut | if u want it |
| 21:09.43 | wps | sure |
| 21:10.37 | bigdog_ut | i got it for you in the hopes that you will get better...:0 |
| 21:10.47 | bigdog_ut | rlol |
| 21:10.54 | wps | I wonder if there will be anything in that I don't know |
| 21:11.50 | wps | glad to see it is only two months old |
| 21:11.50 | *** join/#uphpu tierra (~tierra@dsl093-225-126.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 21:11.58 | wps | the other titles on that page are from < 2001 |
| 21:12.01 | bigdog_ut | yeah it should have some good stuff |
| 21:12.10 | wps | or, I mean <= 2001 |
| 21:17.04 | wps | sheesh |
| 21:17.22 | wps | another round of PayPal fishing attacks have begun |
| 21:17.58 | wps | the criminal site is hosted here: http://www.aw3.de/ |
| 21:18.13 | wps | so, dataw0lf if you would like to sick your friends on them... be my guest :) |
| 21:18.19 | wps | http://www.account.update.online.web.aw3.de/ |
| 22:29.43 | scott | how do you get the ip address of the visitor? |
| 22:31.05 | bigdog_ut | $_SERVER |
| 22:31.15 | bigdog_ut | but that can be spoofed |
| 22:33.37 | bigdog_ut | scott -> http://us2.php.net/manual/en/reserved.variables.php#reserved.variables.server |
| 22:34.17 | bigdog_ut | $_SERVER['REMOTE_HOST'] |
| 22:44.02 | macnewbold | bigdog_ut: REMOTE_HOST? It can't be spoofed... |
| 22:44.18 | bigdog_ut | you can send that in the http header request |
| 22:44.23 | macnewbold | that's the nice thing about TCP connections (like http)... in order to get the connection set up, the return address has to work |
| 22:45.15 | macnewbold | ah, it's REMOTE_ADDR I'm thinkging of |
| 22:45.30 | bigdog_ut | that is the one address |
| 22:45.46 | macnewbold | HTTP_HOST is the one sent in the http header, and it's for the hostname they used to get your site (i.e. the name that resolved to the IP of the server) |
| 22:46.06 | macnewbold | REMOTE_HOST is the hostname corresponding to the IP addr of the visitor that's in REMOTE_ADDR |
| 22:46.16 | bigdog_ut | correct |
| 22:46.17 | macnewbold | and to generate REMOTE_HOST, apache has to have it enabled first |
| 22:46.37 | bigdog_ut | yes that will call like gethostbyname() |
| 22:46.45 | macnewbold | REMOTE_ADDR though is the IP address off the packets they're sending you |
| 22:46.45 | bigdog_ut | or gethostbyip() |
| 22:46.57 | macnewbold | which doesn't come in the http headers |
| 22:47.02 | macnewbold | and cannot be spoofed |
| 22:47.19 | bigdog_ut | sorry the packet can be spoofed to look a certain way |
| 22:47.57 | macnewbold | what do you mean, bigdog_ut? |
| 22:49.08 | macnewbold | the IP address in the packet's TCP header might be spoofed on the SYN request, but the connection would never reached established and could never send an HTTP request and invoke apache or php |
| 22:49.44 | macnewbold | by the time apache gets the http request, you know that the IP address of the other end of the connection is not spoofed, because you're talking to them. |
| 22:49.57 | macnewbold | am I missing something, bigdog_ut? Or confused? |
| 22:51.52 | bigdog_ut | okay...http is a stateless proto...we agree on that |
| 22:52.38 | bigdog_ut | now in a tcp handshake we have syn - syn - ack |
| 22:52.48 | bigdog_ut | so host a sends syn packet |
| 22:52.49 | macnewbold | yeah, stateless... but the TCP connection does have state while the connectoin persists |
| 22:52.56 | macnewbold | http just doesn't have state between requests |
| 22:53.01 | bigdog_ut | after the handshake it does |
| 22:53.04 | macnewbold | yeah |
| 22:53.19 | bigdog_ut | so all this happens before the http connection |
| 22:53.22 | macnewbold | yep |
| 22:53.25 | bigdog_ut | this is just the handshake |
| 22:53.28 | macnewbold | right |
| 22:53.35 | bigdog_ut | so the syn is sent from host a to host b |
| 22:53.39 | macnewbold | yeah |
| 22:53.50 | bigdog_ut | host b accepts and send host a a syn packet |
| 22:54.10 | macnewbold | yes, using host A's IP address from the syn packet |
| 22:54.11 | bigdog_ut | host a accepts and sends a ack packet to host b |
| 22:54.16 | macnewbold | right |
| 22:54.24 | bigdog_ut | using the ip address that is in the packet |
| 22:54.49 | macnewbold | if the syn packet arrived at host A from host B, then we know we had the right address for host A, i.e. it wasn't spoofed. |
| 22:55.07 | bigdog_ut | correct |
| 22:55.14 | scott | is there some kind of tool to see what is causing a page to look different in IE than it does in firefox? |
| 22:55.17 | bigdog_ut | but this where we introduce the spoof |
| 22:55.23 | macnewbold | that's the address in REMOTE_ADDR, right? |
| 22:55.44 | macnewbold | scott: the html and css validators from w3c sometimes help |
| 22:55.54 | bigdog_ut | so you introduce host c that uses host a to help send packets to host b |
| 22:56.16 | macnewbold | "uses" host a? i.e. host c relays packets through host a? |
| 22:56.49 | bigdog_ut | correct...ip spoofing |
| 22:56.57 | macnewbold | no, not IP spoofing... |
| 22:57.16 | macnewbold | if host A is sending the packets to host B, then B's conversation is with host A |
| 22:57.38 | macnewbold | whether or not host C is telling host A to do it or not is irrelevant to spoofing |
| 22:57.39 | bigdog_ut | host c is sending packets to host b via host a |
| 22:58.04 | macnewbold | as in host c sends a packet to host A, and host A resends it to host B on the tcp connection it established? |
| 22:58.13 | macnewbold | that's not spoofing |
| 22:58.28 | bigdog_ut | spoofing in the sense that it is not host a doing the work |
| 22:58.29 | macnewbold | spoofing is where host A sends a packet that says it came from host D |
| 22:58.35 | bigdog_ut | correct |
| 22:58.53 | macnewbold | then in the ack, host B would try to send the syn ack back to host D, because that's who the packet claimed to be from |
| 23:00.36 | macnewbold | but host D would know nothing about it |
| 23:01.21 | bigdog_ut | y |
| 23:01.50 | bigdog_ut | yes in that term it is when you forge the packet's ip source |
| 23:03.29 | bigdog_ut | i used i think hping to do what i am talking about |
| 23:06.37 | macnewbold | if you've got a host, like host a, that is cooperating in relaying stuff for another host, it's not spoofing, though you're really not getting the full picture of who you're really talking to at the end of the line. |
| 23:07.00 | macnewbold | there are some really cool anonymizing relay networks that do cool stuff like that |
| 23:08.00 | macnewbold | so you can surf the web pretty much anonymously, and every node participating in the relay has plausible deniability that they don't know who you are or what you're doing |
| 23:08.02 | bigdog_ut | correct...spoofing in this sense is probably not the best term but there is not one specific for what i am describing |
| 23:08.19 | bigdog_ut | you could but it is hard to do |
| 23:08.29 | macnewbold | yeah... so what's the practical use of that? |
| 23:08.46 | macnewbold | in a lot of ways, what you're describing is what you'd get by having a web proxy. |
| 23:09.42 | bigdog_ut | yeah...but host a does not know that you are doing it unless the admin is looking for that stuff |
| 23:10.03 | bigdog_ut | i used it alot for security testing that is one place |
| 23:10.21 | bigdog_ut | we did it on network firewalls cause port 80 is almost always open |
| 23:11.35 | macnewbold | but to be able to use host A to do that kind of thing, |
| 23:11.40 | bigdog_ut | so try this: hping2 -1 -a www.fbi.gov <host> |
| 23:11.59 | bigdog_ut | :) |
| 23:12.12 | macnewbold | you either have to have access to do it yourself, or hack the box to get that access |
| 23:12.28 | bigdog_ut | hack what box? |
| 23:12.39 | macnewbold | the box you're using to relay your stuff |
| 23:13.18 | macnewbold | I don't have hping installed yet on my box, but it looks kinda cool |
| 23:13.22 | macnewbold | you may also like dsniff |
| 23:13.31 | bigdog_ut | yeah i use it |
| 23:13.59 | macnewbold | it's got some pretty sweet stuff, especially when used in a hubbed or wireless network, where you can see everything everyone is sending |
| 23:14.27 | macnewbold | or, just use their macof tool to overflow your switch's MAC table, and turn it into a hub :) |
| 23:15.02 | bigdog_ut | yeah i have a bunch of tools like that i used in the old days |
| 23:15.14 | bigdog_ut | pepsi is a tool i like |
| 23:16.18 | macnewbold | I've never really had a practical use for very many of those things, other than maybe nmap, so I haven't played around with them much |
| 23:17.21 | bigdog_ut | yeah, working for a router/vpn company i got to play with them alot |
| 23:17.52 | macnewbold | which company? or is that venticon? |
| 23:20.57 | bigdog_ut | no enterasys networks |
| 23:22.20 | macnewbold | cool... how long were you there? What kind of stuff did you do for them? (not php, I suppose) |
| 23:23.45 | bigdog_ut | i was with for about 1.5 years |
| 23:24.35 | bigdog_ut | i did java development, snmp security testing, vpn testing and routing protocols |
| 23:24.59 | bigdog_ut | automated testing of those protocols like: bgp, rip, ospf, spanning tree and others |
| 23:25.10 | bigdog_ut | manly i dealt with snmp and vpns |
| 23:25.26 | bigdog_ut | and i did alot of php development for our testing system |
| 23:26.00 | bigdog_ut | our testing system was a web interface (php) that would set up automated test (java) against our routers and switches |
| 23:26.18 | bigdog_ut | by far the coolest job i ever had |
| 23:26.41 | tierra | omg, bigdog_ut, you have experience with vpns? |
| 23:26.56 | tierra | I could use your help if you don't mind... know much about openvpn? |
| 23:27.03 | bigdog_ut | yeah...just that one and a couple others |
| 23:27.25 | bigdog_ut | not only the free swan one..if that is what it is called anymore |
| 23:27.33 | scott | macnewbold, anyting besides the validators? they don't give any errors (besides & in urls) |
| 23:27.38 | tierra | can you run openvpn without ssl, or is that how it knows the client is authorized to connect to the vpn? |
| 23:28.00 | bigdog_ut | i would think u use ssl to connect to the vpn |
| 23:28.02 | macnewbold | tierra: ssl doesn't authorize a client to connect, it lets the client verify who they're talking to |
| 23:28.16 | macnewbold | authentication has to be something else |
| 23:28.21 | tierra | well, that's what I meant |
| 23:28.27 | macnewbold | scott: what kind of differences are you seeing? |
| 23:29.20 | macnewbold | tierra: I don't know whether you can with openvpn or not, but you should be able to run a vpn w/o ssl encryption, though it's then basically just a tunnel :) |
| 23:29.35 | tierra | basically... I'm running through a howto on openvpn, but it has instructions for actually sending off SSL for a CA cert, and doesn't show a non-cert SSL config |
| 23:29.49 | scott | macnewbold, do you have IE? |
| 23:30.03 | macnewbold | tierra: you can use a self-signed ssl cert, if you want... they're free |
| 23:30.04 | tierra | see, I need the LAN environment, but I don't need the encryptiong |
| 23:30.04 | bigdog_ut | tierra, create your own certs and use them |
| 23:30.09 | macnewbold | scott: not on this box... I'm on FreeBSD :) |
| 23:30.40 | macnewbold | tierra: bigdog_ut's probably right... it's probably easiest to use the encryption anyway |
| 23:30.50 | macnewbold | not to mention better from a security standpoint |
| 23:31.18 | tierra | that was my next plan, but it'd require a bit more work considering I've only signed maybe 3-4 of my own SSL certs total... with guides... I don't know much about self-signed certs other than that |
| 23:31.21 | bigdog_ut | most definite |
| 23:32.48 | macnewbold | tierra: I'm going to msg you a makefile that makes it dead easy... |
| 23:32.55 | bigdog_ut | tierra, which howto are you doing |
| 23:33.03 | tierra | also, considering I'm going for a LAN environment that various friends on the internet can connect up to, is OpenVPN a good choice? also, should I use bridging, or routing? |
| 23:33.20 | bigdog_ut | stay with routing |
| 23:33.35 | *** join/#uphpu macnewbold (~mac@69.2.248.251) |
| 23:33.40 | tierra | thanks macnewbold |
| 23:33.40 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o macnewbold] by ChanServ |
| 23:33.48 | macnewbold | did that come through? |
| 23:33.55 | macnewbold | I got cut for excess flood :) |
| 23:34.00 | macnewbold | too big of a pasted file, I guess |
| 23:34.15 | bigdog_ut | tierra, check out frees/wan |
| 23:34.32 | tierra | bigdog_ut, I was going for TAP with bridging since I read that routing kills broadcasts... http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-233080-highlight-openvpn.html |
| 23:34.46 | bigdog_ut | and perhaps these too: VTun, cIPe |
| 23:34.50 | bigdog_ut | on and tnc |
| 23:35.06 | bigdog_ut | oh |
| 23:35.39 | bigdog_ut | i mainly used frees/wan and ipsec |
| 23:35.48 | bigdog_ut | but that was back in 2001 |
| 23:39.39 | macnewbold | the bridging of broadcast packets is sweet... |
| 23:39.53 | macnewbold | that's also the thing that makes it completely like being in the same lan |
| 23:40.07 | macnewbold | so things like StarCraft multiplayer games will work :) |
| 23:40.11 | tierra | well, I'm using it for LAN gaming, so it would be really nice to have... I can probably get away without it, but it would be nice |
| 23:40.18 | macnewbold | tierra: what game? |
| 23:40.23 | dataw0lf | CS 1.3 |
| 23:40.26 | tierra | CS actually |
| 23:40.31 | tierra | yeah, 1.3 |
| 23:41.17 | tierra | I'm trying to run an oldschool CS 1.3 server, and since it's outdated, it won't work on WON or anything, so it'll only work in a LAN environment |
| 23:41.37 | scott | macnewbold, http://jaderholm.com/t/menu.jpg <-- the menu line doesn't connect, and the bullets are not centered on the text. both things work fine in firefox |
| 23:42.46 | macnewbold | hm... what's it supposed to look like? and where's the html/css source for it? |
| 23:43.34 | macnewbold | actually, it's almost 5pm... I've got an appt to run to, but I can take a look at it in the morning, if you want... I'll msg you my email address |
| 23:44.03 | scott | alright |
| 23:45.14 | macnewbold | sorry... :) |
| 23:49.07 | tierra | bigdog_ut, will FreeS/WAN work well and be easy to setup with Windows clients connecting to a linux server? possibly a few linux clients as well... |
| 23:49.32 | macnewbold | tierra: openvpn is known to be good for cross-platform stuff |
| 23:50.07 | tierra | I'm leaning towards openvpn mostly also because there's a gentoo ebuild =) |
| 23:51.23 | bigdog_ut | yes because freeswan is for ipsec which most windows clients like i guess |
| 23:51.53 | bigdog_ut | openswan might be a choice too |
| 23:53.01 | bigdog_ut | but if gentoo has something written up then i would go with that too...their docs are really good |
| 23:54.29 | tierra | what are the pros/cons of bridging vs routing? as far as I've read, bridging seems to be what I want for my setup, but I have read it's a little harder to setup |
| 23:55.14 | tierra | what exactly do both do? |
| 23:55.33 | macnewbold | routing makes two separate lans that can talk to each other (like a router would do) |
| 23:55.47 | macnewbold | bridging makes one bigger lan, like a switch would do |
| 23:55.49 | tierra | I just jumped into VPN stuff yesterday, I'm really new to all this... I've actually avoided the subject like the plague for a long time |
| 23:56.16 | macnewbold | in one big lan, broadcast packets are passed along by the bridge/switch/hub |
| 23:56.28 | macnewbold | in a routed network, broadcast stuff doesn't cross over a router |
| 23:56.36 | tierra | see, then I probably do want bridging |
| 23:56.46 | tierra | if I can get it setup |
| 23:57.19 | bigdog_ut | yeah with most vpns you want to isolate the networks that are coming in so they do routing |
| 23:57.55 | bigdog_ut | like all vpn clients are in this sub net that gets routed to the corp intranet |
| 23:58.19 | tierra | oh, cool, Gentoo also has an OpenSwan ebuild as well |
| 23:58.52 | tierra | let me see if I can find an openswan gentoo howto somewhere |
