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| 01:34.37 | cycokilr | synic: are you there? |
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| 02:24.17 | usynic | cycokilr, ah, new sarge installer _does_ support eepro1000 |
| 02:25.18 | eco|w | :( Debian is so slow...I feel sorry for you guys. |
| 02:26.12 | usynic | heh, as if I'm going to try to install full software raid 1 on these sata drives with gentoo. |
| 02:26.44 | usynic | as if I'll ever install gentoo on anything again |
| 02:26.55 | usynic | :P |
| 02:27.14 | eco|w | You build the kernel from source...I don't think it'd be an issue unless you don't know how. |
| 02:27.16 | eco|w | :) |
| 02:28.10 | usynic | have you ever done it? I know how to build a kernel from source... |
| 02:28.11 | eco|w | Then again, if you are doing RAID 1 you are probably building a server in which case Debian is a good choice. |
| 02:28.21 | usynic | yes, it is a production server. |
| 02:29.07 | eco|w | Built a kernel from source? You _have_ to with Gentoo. I've got about 8 kernels right now (from Nitro Sources to Love Source to MM Sources to Vanilla sources). |
| 02:29.20 | usynic | I'm talking about setting up software raid 1 on the entire drive |
| 02:29.26 | usynic | have you ever done that? |
| 02:29.38 | eco|w | Oh. No. |
| 02:30.10 | eco|w | But what about Debian would make it so much better than on Gentoo (acknowledge that I agree that Debian is a far better choice for a production server). |
| 02:30.11 | eco|w | ? |
| 02:30.33 | eco|w | *acknowleding |
| 02:30.45 | usynic | well, for one, I hate gentoo |
| 02:31.12 | usynic | ... that's about it. |
| 02:32.38 | usynic | oh wait, and for two, I love debian |
| 02:32.52 | usynic | and I think gentoo's optimization is overrated. |
| 02:33.08 | tierra | seems everyone either hates or likes gentoo... I like to think it's because everyone that likes it realizes it's better, and everyone that hates it, hates it because they can't give up their current distro that they're hooked on |
| 02:33.28 | eco|w | Well, I won't debate against hatred (it's about as fun as trying to logically shatter someone's faith in religeon) but let me ask you, have you ever used Gentoo for any noteworthy period of time? |
| 02:33.38 | usynic | tierra, you forget that I used gentoo for two years. |
| 02:33.44 | eco|w | That's a yes then :) |
| 02:33.50 | tierra | your right there... gentoo optimization is REALLY overrated, but that's not the only thing that makes gentoo what it is |
| 02:34.02 | eco|w | Well, I'll leave you to your hatred. |
| 02:34.09 | usynic | lol, didn't we have this conversation last week? |
| 02:34.10 | usynic | hehe. |
| 02:34.15 | eco|w | I didn't, no. |
| 02:34.18 | usynic | you like gentoo, I like debian, we all hate richard simmons |
| 02:34.19 | eco|w | I never talk in this channel. |
| 02:34.27 | tierra | agreed |
| 02:35.09 | usynic | on another note... if I can't get this working in sarge, I'll have to use fc3. |
| 02:35.11 | usynic | oh the horror. |
| 02:37.16 | usynic | eco|w, I've usually given distros a noteworthy period of time. I realize there's a huge learning curve when switching between distros (generally), and you can't really make a good judgement unless you've given it a good chance |
| 02:37.31 | usynic | same as switching from windows to linux |
| 02:40.12 | dataw0lf | uh oh. |
| 02:40.47 | dataw0lf | guys, let's not argue about distros. |
| 02:41.00 | dataw0lf | we all know debian > gentoo, in our hearts. |
| 02:41.21 | usynic | hehe |
| 02:42.00 | usynic | dataw0lf, I've spent two days trying to get full software raid with ubuntu. I swear, I almost had it. |
| 02:42.11 | usynic | I think I can get it with the new sarge installer, though. |
| 02:42.16 | tierra | so..... I've been thinking about what distro to use for the CS server... I'm thinking Gentoo =) |
| 02:43.09 | dataw0lf | usynic: what RAID ? |
| 02:43.13 | usynic | 1 |
| 02:44.31 | dataw0lf | lilo might be a better bet than grub. |
| 02:44.58 | usynic | I tried both |
| 02:45.00 | usynic | same results, though |
| 02:45.11 | dataw0lf | hm. |
| 02:45.21 | usynic | ubuntu doesn't include a default lilo.conf, which annoyed me |
| 02:45.24 | dataw0lf | I've heard bad things about putting /boot in a RAID. |
| 02:45.44 | usynic | I've heard bad and good things |
| 02:45.51 | usynic | most of the bad things == "it's hard" |
| 02:45.58 | dataw0lf | http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=15605&highlight=software+raid |
| 02:46.47 | usynic | but if I can pull it off, I save us $300+ |
| 02:47.05 | usynic | well, minus all this time I've spent on it :P |
| 02:47.12 | dataw0lf | hehe. |
| 02:49.27 | dataw0lf | tierra / eco|w: you guys have the PHP cell phone text message snippet you use? |
| 02:49.37 | tierra | yeah |
| 02:49.52 | eco|w | mail(); |
| 02:49.54 | eco|w | :) |
| 02:49.58 | eco|w | Really, that's all I use. |
| 02:51.11 | tierra | if(isset($_POST['phonemsg_username']) && isset($_POST['phonemsg_message'])) { |
| 02:51.12 | tierra | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:51.12 | tierra | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:51.25 | dataw0lf | ah, ok. |
| 02:51.27 | tierra | there's my phone number if anyone cares =) |
| 02:51.30 | dataw0lf | thought it might be special. |
| 02:51.35 | dataw0lf | apparently it's not. |
| 02:51.44 | eco|w | Is that my code? :) |
| 02:52.12 | eco|w | Hmm, maybe...improved to incase the username I think. |
| 02:52.43 | usynic | cycokilr, you were right, that xmission mirror is pulling >400KB/s |
| 02:52.57 | dataw0lf | Ubuntu repo mirrors? |
| 02:53.04 | usynic | debian |
| 02:53.22 | dataw0lf | xmission is so coo. |
| 02:53.29 | usynic | dataw0lf, hehe, I got to "touch" the xmission mirror servers the other day |
| 02:53.53 | dataw0lf | with your... oh, this is #uphpu. |
| 02:53.55 | tierra | eco|w, probably your code, but I figured since you said I could use it, that you wouldn't mind anyone else seeing 3 lines of code |
| 02:54.00 | usynic | lol |
| 02:54.16 | usynic | dataw0lf, nah, xilch and I got a tour of the complex |
| 02:54.25 | eco|w | It's GPL! You must all now give me your computers source c0de! |
| 02:54.26 | eco|w | HA! |
| 02:54.32 | tierra | rol |
| 02:54.45 | tierra | too bad it didn't have a license attached |
| 02:55.09 | eco|w | It did. |
| 02:55.11 | dataw0lf | you should've pasted 50 lines of comments before it. |
| 02:55.12 | eco|w | It was SGPL |
| 02:55.23 | eco|w | Silent GPL. Much more infectious. |
| 02:55.41 | tierra | haha |
| 02:56.59 | tierra | we don't need another HopeSeeker in this world... |
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| 03:00.36 | eco|w | Hehe |
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| 03:36.18 | bigdog_ut | dataw0lf, i would never put a /boot on a raid |
| 03:38.01 | dataw0lf | the reasoning escapes me as well, but some people are just putting their whole system on the RAID. |
| 03:40.18 | bigdog_ut | there are issues with the raid controller and booting |
| 03:40.30 | bigdog_ut | is this a promise card? |
| 03:42.13 | cycokilr | oh dude.. are you still there? |
| 03:43.07 | bigdog_ut | y |
| 03:44.33 | bigdog_ut | dataw0lf, i know for a sata raid we did with gentoo on amd64 we had to have the bios on an ide drive |
| 03:44.49 | bigdog_ut | had something to do with the way stuff was loaded |
| 03:45.27 | usynic | bigdog_ut, this is software raid. |
| 03:45.51 | cycokilr | usynic: dude, are you at home? |
| 03:46.05 | usynic | cycokilr, yeah, but I'm about to leave - why? |
| 03:46.16 | cycokilr | where are you going? |
| 03:46.21 | bigdog_ut | usynic, then it should be easier then |
| 03:46.32 | usynic | probably to Ross's |
| 03:46.40 | usynic | bigdog_ut, it's not been easy, that's for sure |
| 03:46.48 | cycokilr | oh.. that's cool.. |
| 03:46.52 | cycokilr | just checkin.. |
| 03:46.57 | usynic | ? |
| 03:47.02 | usynic | what's up? |
| 03:47.31 | bigdog_ut | usynic, what problems are you facing? |
| 03:47.46 | usynic | bigdog_ut, most distros don't support booting from software raid by default |
| 03:48.21 | usynic | well, most distros that I care about anyway. |
| 03:48.43 | usynic | if all else fails, I can use fc3 |
| 03:48.46 | bigdog_ut | yeah...there are issues with loading the raid before you can access the kernel |
| 03:48.54 | cycokilr | usynic: dude, why are you usynic instead of synic? |
| 03:49.03 | usynic | cycokilr, different box |
| 03:49.18 | cycokilr | oh.. do you need me to keep downloading FC3 still? |
| 03:49.19 | bigdog_ut | hence the use of the ide drive for the /boot partition |
| 03:49.39 | usynic | cycokilr, nah, I'm ood |
| 03:49.43 | usynic | er.. good |
| 03:49.54 | cycokilr | alright man.. you going over there tomorrow? |
| 03:50.00 | usynic | bigdog_ut, I'm convinced I can get the whole system on raid |
| 03:50.03 | usynic | cycokilr, yeah |
| 03:50.19 | usynic | bigdog_ut, if I can't, we're buying a better controller. |
| 03:50.28 | usynic | brb |
| 03:50.31 | bigdog_ut | i thought you said you dont have a controller |
| 03:50.36 | bigdog_ut | software raid |
| 03:50.44 | cycokilr | dude, you should call me for sure.. i'll go over there with you man.. |
| 03:50.45 | usynic | we have a controller, but it isn't supported. |
| 03:50.57 | usynic | cycokilr, I will do. Probably around 12 |
| 03:50.59 | bigdog_ut | what controller do you have? |
| 03:51.30 | usynic | bigdog_ut, intel ICHR5 |
| 03:52.23 | bigdog_ut | that is a sata raid controller right? |
| 03:53.07 | usynic | yup |
| 03:54.13 | cycokilr | usynic: right on man.. i'm up for it.. call me.. cool? |
| 03:54.41 | usynic | cycokilr, okey |
| 03:54.45 | bigdog_ut | sata raids are very difficult to get working with any kernel |
| 03:54.59 | usynic | cycokilr, i'll have both the debian sarge installer and the fc3 |
| 03:55.03 | bigdog_ut | sata raid device drivers are still in infancy that is for sure |
| 03:55.17 | usynic | bigdog_ut, yeah - if this doesn't work, though, we're getting a 3ware card |
| 03:55.21 | cycokilr | that's cool.. yeah let's make sure we get it done tomorrow.. the way you want.. |
| 03:55.34 | bigdog_ut | get a promise card..they are way better |
| 03:55.39 | usynic | so basically, we _will_ have full raid when it's all said and done. |
| 03:56.06 | usynic | cycokilr, lol, ok. :) |
| 03:56.44 | usynic | bigdog_ut, we just can't afford the downtime if one goes out |
| 03:57.03 | bigdog_ut | if one drive goes down? |
| 03:57.08 | usynic | yeah. |
| 03:57.11 | bigdog_ut | usynic, then promise the one to use |
| 03:57.20 | bigdog_ut | http://www.linuxmafia.com/faq/Hardware/sata.html |
| 03:57.30 | cycokilr | de ja vue.. |
| 03:57.46 | cycokilr | usynic: wow.. that brings back memories.. |
| 03:57.51 | bigdog_ut | your drives are sata too? |
| 03:58.03 | usynic | cycokilr, huh? |
| 03:58.17 | usynic | xilch, http://www.linuxmafia.com/faq/Hardware/sata.html <-- you seeing this? |
| 03:58.19 | cycokilr | that was the same link i sent earlier today.. |
| 03:58.25 | usynic | oh, lol |
| 03:58.43 | usynic | ... the past two days |
| 03:58.51 | bigdog_ut | the promise fasttrak are the ones i recommend |
| 03:59.25 | bigdog_ut | and then the via controllers |
| 03:59.44 | usynic | bigdog_ut, why promise? everyone recommends the 3ware |
| 04:00.18 | bigdog_ut | really...promise have been around for a while and the linux drivers are really developed |
| 04:02.14 | bigdog_ut | http://linux.yyz.us/sata/sata-status.html#tware |
| 04:10.57 | cycokilr | bigdog_ut: are these all links you got from me earlier or what? |
| 04:11.25 | cycokilr | this was all discussed about 8 hours ago.. with all the same links.. |
| 04:11.52 | bigdog_ut | nope these are the ones that i have for my sata and raid |
| 04:12.18 | bigdog_ut | then why still the dicussion then |
| 04:14.52 | cycokilr | just trying to make it work the best way possible.. |
| 04:15.02 | cycokilr | looking for new ideas.. |
| 04:15.54 | bigdog_ut | what has been done then to get it to work? |
| 04:18.29 | usynic | a couple different distros, different software raid arrangements |
| 04:18.48 | usynic | installing ubunto on the first drive, creating a raid on the second |
| 04:19.10 | bigdog_ut | how many drives are on the controller? |
| 04:19.15 | usynic | booting from that array, with the first drive set to "fail".... so that the first drive could be corrected |
| 04:19.23 | usynic | just 2 |
| 04:19.24 | bigdog_ut | how many drives do you have total |
| 04:19.55 | bigdog_ut | do u have another drive that can be just a boot drive |
| 04:20.26 | usynic | we could, but the boss insists on total redundancy. |
| 04:20.51 | usynic | we really can't afford more than a few hours of downtime |
| 04:21.22 | usynic | (and that's pushing it) |
| 04:21.25 | bigdog_ut | yeah that is why i suggest having another drive |
| 04:21.38 | usynic | well, say the boot drive goes out |
| 04:22.04 | bigdog_ut | it would be hard pressed if it went out cause it is just a boot drive |
| 04:22.35 | usynic | ok - but in software raid case, the boot drive would have to contain the root partition, wouldn't it? |
| 04:22.48 | bigdog_ut | no |
| 04:22.48 | usynic | because it's durning init time that it matters |
| 04:23.07 | usynic | otherwise we could just create a boot partition that isn't raid |
| 04:23.14 | bigdog_ut | the boot drive could have a back up of the root |
| 04:24.01 | usynic | how do you mean? |
| 04:24.36 | cycokilr | dude, i think the nightly mirror is still your best bet.. think about it.. you have a failure.. you run over there (or have me do it since i'm 4 blocks from the datacenter) and swap the cable.. at most, your downtime is a few mins.. |
| 04:25.01 | cycokilr | no reason to get all complicated.. just like we talked earlier.. |
| 04:25.02 | usynic | cycokilr, I'm totally down with that idea - but everyone else isn't. |
| 04:25.19 | usynic | I think the simpler the better |
| 04:25.22 | cycokilr | because they want to sound like big time linux guys.. |
| 04:25.31 | cycokilr | you know me man.. you know i know my stuff.. |
| 04:25.35 | bigdog_ut | okay...so this server is important...why are you doing a software raid even...why not a hardware raid? |
| 04:25.51 | usynic | bigdog_ut, if we can do software raid, we save money. |
| 04:25.52 | cycokilr | bigdog_ut: that's what i said.. why not scsi raid.. |
| 04:25.52 | bigdog_ut | full scsi raid |
| 04:25.57 | cycokilr | all ata raid is software.. |
| 04:26.03 | usynic | if I can't get it to work, we'll buy a new controller |
| 04:26.33 | bigdog_ut | dude sata raids are a poor mans raid...the controller suck |
| 04:27.00 | bigdog_ut | the time you have spent now has probably cover the cost of a scsi contoller |
| 04:27.01 | usynic | ok, we're a poor company, but not if we can help it. |
| 04:27.03 | usynic | this can help. |
| 04:27.12 | cycokilr | usynic: dude.. i'm saying.. forget all this "tough guy linux" crap.. just do it the easy way.. |
| 04:27.38 | usynic | brb |
| 04:28.03 | cycokilr | sata is actually way better than parallel ata.. way better.. but linux support just isn't that great yet.. |
| 04:28.52 | usynic | cycokilr, well, the easy way means we lose however many hours since the last backup |
| 04:28.53 | bigdog_ut | yeah sata is better then pata however, the kernel drivers are lacking |
| 04:29.07 | usynic | believe me, I like your idea |
| 04:29.14 | usynic | it works best |
| 04:29.27 | usynic | but we lost data if something happens, and that means thousands of distributors are unhappy. |
| 04:30.11 | cycokilr | usynic: crontab dude.. as often as you want.. the only part that will change a lot is /var.. every 15 mins if you want.. cp has an option to check file modify time.. |
| 04:30.31 | cycokilr | just like rsync |
| 04:30.45 | usynic | right - rsync is awesome, but every 15 minutes would put a lot of load on everything else |
| 04:30.46 | cycokilr | i still think it's your best (simplest and will work) option.. |
| 04:31.10 | bigdog_ut | if the network goes down you are screwed |
| 04:31.14 | usynic | and again, I like your option, but I need to convince xilch |
| 04:31.20 | usynic | bigdog_ut, indeed |
| 04:31.51 | usynic | we would rather pay the $300+ dollars to get a raid controller |
| 04:31.51 | bigdog_ut | if you wanted to rsync the best thing would be to use heartbeat with a serial connection between the computers |
| 04:31.55 | cycokilr | no dude.. check the man page for cp.. -u option will only copy the file if it's newer than the destination.. |
| 04:31.57 | bigdog_ut | this would sync the data |
| 04:32.01 | usynic | we would loose a lot more money if some drive went down |
| 04:32.10 | bigdog_ut | then you loadbalance the ip on the boxes |
| 04:32.22 | bigdog_ut | when one goes down the other comes up to take its place |
| 04:33.01 | cycokilr | you could run a script ever 10 mins.. not that much is going to change.. and you're talking about perl scripts man.. text files.. |
| 04:33.10 | usynic | cycokilr, check the rsync manpage. It only copies the diff, and even compresses that |
| 04:33.18 | usynic | yeah, but even 10 minutes is bad |
| 04:33.25 | cycokilr | then 2 mins.. |
| 04:33.30 | bigdog_ut | guys heartbeat...check it out |
| 04:33.36 | cycokilr | either way.. i don't think it will be that bad.. |
| 04:33.37 | usynic | it's unbelievable how many people hit this site |
| 04:33.41 | usynic | even at 3AM |
| 04:33.53 | usynic | I want to smack everyone who uses after 10PM |
| 04:33.57 | bigdog_ut | loadbalance the box |
| 04:34.10 | bigdog_ut | master/slave that is all you need |
| 04:34.14 | usynic | xilch, help me! |
| 04:35.00 | usynic | bigdog_ut, right now it's all about money. Two boxes == twice the cost. |
| 04:36.18 | bigdog_ut | depends |
| 04:37.38 | bigdog_ut | but i am saying that you can have a server up at all times even if one went down |
| 04:38.08 | usynic | we could, and probably will at some point, but not right now. |
| 04:38.24 | usynic | in any case, I need more food, and less working on this crap |
| 04:38.25 | usynic | lol |
| 04:38.38 | usynic | so I'll be back tomorrow. :) |
| 04:38.38 | bigdog_ut | yeah |
| 04:38.43 | usynic | thanks for everyone's help |
| 05:06.30 | eco | dataw0lf: Poor genixpro...he's always been a little slow |
| 05:06.41 | dataw0lf | he'll get over it. |
| 05:06.43 | dataw0lf | with a razor. |
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| 05:30.36 | bigdog_ut | it would be nice if xmission had a mirror just for xmission users |
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| 19:02.26 | asynic | cycokilr, you awake yet? |
| 19:34.45 | asynic | omg, I think I did it |
| 19:35.08 | asynic | I just booted into full software raid |
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