| 00:00.03 | jbot | ACTION drowns drip in apples |
| 00:00.03 | drip | not again!!! |
| 00:00.17 | bigdog_ut | ~lobsterslap drip |
| 00:00.23 | jbot | ACTION eats lobster |
| 00:00.26 | drip | ~halfboulderslap bigdog_ut |
| 00:00.28 | jbot | ACTION buries bigdog_ut in a compost heap but doesn't plant an echinacea tree on it |
| 00:00.53 | bigdog_ut | ~bushslap drip |
| 00:00.55 | jbot | ACTION puts food on drip's family |
| 00:00.58 | drip | ~cheatslap bigdog_ut |
| 00:01.00 | jbot | ACTION Slaps bigdog_ut with the truth book for cheating in htf. |
| 00:01.24 | bigdog_ut | ~scoslap drip |
| 00:01.27 | jbot | ACTION sues drip for violating his own patents |
| 00:01.34 | drip | ~vangoghslap bigdog_ut |
| 00:01.36 | jbot | ACTION slogs 12 layers of paint over bigdog_ut |
| 00:02.02 | bigdog_ut | ~tailslap drip |
| 00:02.05 | jbot | ACTION whacks drip with a giant beaver's tail. |
| 00:02.29 | bigdog_ut | ~beaverslap drip |
| 00:02.30 | drip | ~tailslap bigdog_ut |
| 00:02.32 | jbot | ACTION whacks bigdog_ut with a giant beaver's tail. |
| 00:03.07 | bigdog_ut | ~beaverslap drip bigdog_ut |
| 00:15.15 | bigdog_ut | ~listkeys beaver |
| 00:15.38 | *** join/#uphpu fungus (~fungus@firebat.aros.net) |
| 00:55.44 | *** join/#uphpu drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
| 01:18.53 | *** join/#uphpu drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
| 03:46.37 | macnewbold | ~listkeys mac |
| 03:47.06 | macnewbold | ~listkeys macn |
| 03:47.17 | macnewbold | ~listkeys newbold |
| 03:47.31 | macnewbold | ~newbold |
| 03:47.32 | jbot | methinks macnewbold is a nice person, or very good in stew. Cookie Monster, or an ibot abuser |
| 03:47.48 | macnewbold | ~listkeys mac n |
| 03:47.55 | macnewbold | ~mac |
| 03:47.56 | jbot | rumour has it, mac is the best computer ever |
| 03:48.06 | macnewbold | ~listkeys salt lake |
| 03:48.21 | macnewbold | ~listkeys utah |
| 03:48.35 | macnewbold | ~#utah |
| 03:48.36 | jbot | somebody said #utah was the place for advocacy in Utah and just about the coolest place on freenode |
| 03:48.38 | macnewbold | ~#utah ops |
| 03:48.39 | jbot | the ops in #utah include Jayce^, TimRiker, and apt/ibot/jbot |
| 03:48.47 | macnewbold | ~listkeys uphpu |
| 04:25.41 | *** join/#uphpu optikal- (~optikal@c-24-10-198-60.client.comcast.net) |
| 04:31.53 | *** join/#uphpu beandog (~steve@c-67-172-239-181.client.comcast.net) |
| 04:32.10 | beandog | Anyone wanna help me with some CSS? :D |
| 04:32.53 | optikal- | heh |
| 04:32.55 | optikal- | whats up |
| 04:34.23 | beandog | Ive got a header <div> |
| 04:34.25 | beandog | that works nicely. |
| 04:34.29 | beandog | But I want to put an image in there. |
| 04:34.32 | beandog | and Im lost. |
| 04:34.44 | beandog | basically I want | text text text image | |
| 04:35.41 | optikal- | ok |
| 04:35.46 | optikal- | <img src> |
| 04:35.48 | optikal- | heh |
| 04:35.57 | optikal- | or background-image: url('image.gif'); |
| 04:37.39 | optikal- | you can specify the position as well |
| 04:37.59 | optikal- | http://www.w3schools.com/css/css_background.asp |
| 04:38.20 | beandog | how do I get it positioned on the far right though? |
| 04:38.44 | optikal- | background-postion:center right; |
| 04:38.46 | optikal- | or whatever |
| 04:38.50 | optikal- | look at the page given above. |
| 04:38.51 | beandog | hmm. ok |
| 04:38.54 | beandog | ok brb |
| 04:44.19 | beandog | good grief that was embarrassingly easy. |
| 04:44.29 | optikal- | =P |
| 04:44.31 | optikal- | <3 the css |
| 04:44.34 | optikal- | its easy as hell |
| 04:44.38 | optikal- | until you get into the advanced parts. |
| 04:44.44 | optikal- | and run into all the ie css bugs |
| 05:08.11 | *** join/#uphpu drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
| 05:13.23 | *** join/#uphpu wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 05:13.27 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 05:17.41 | beandog | Wade .... |
| 05:17.45 | beandog | mr CSS guru |
| 05:17.47 | wps | hi |
| 05:17.51 | beandog | I need some quick help if you dont mind |
| 05:18.03 | beandog | Im almost done with this redesign except this one part. |
| 05:18.05 | wps | I'll trade you for some sendmail action :) |
| 05:18.09 | beandog | Heh |
| 05:18.28 | beandog | Only if you can get mine working. ;) |
| 05:18.41 | wps | :) |
| 05:18.44 | optikal- | hehe i got some dinner to eat, shoot it out and ill help u if u need |
| 05:18.59 | wps | which? |
| 05:19.12 | wps | beandog: sure, send me a link with a description |
| 05:19.19 | optikal- | re:beandog's css |
| 05:19.36 | wps | :( no one to help with email |
| 05:19.37 | optikal- | and if u need help with sendmail when i get back ill see what i can do too |
| 05:19.38 | beandog | ok lemme upload |
| 05:19.44 | wps | yeah! |
| 05:21.25 | beandog | bleh, one sec.. somethign just went foo |
| 05:23.14 | wps | alright... I have a simpler one for while we are waiting |
| 05:23.23 | wps | how do I set MySQL to start automatically on boot? |
| 05:24.28 | beandog | add it to a runlevel |
| 05:24.42 | wps | what are runlevels? |
| 05:28.18 | beandog | one sec |
| 05:28.21 | beandog | I just broke everything |
| 05:40.06 | optikal- | wps: you totally shoulda setup gentoo. =P |
| 05:40.34 | wps | honestly, I would love to, but I don't have time |
| 05:40.51 | optikal- | well, 90% of the time is waiting on gentoo, but thats besides the fact |
| 05:40.58 | beandog | seriously |
| 05:41.03 | beandog | Gentoo saves you time. |
| 05:41.05 | beandog | :) |
| 05:41.11 | optikal- | i dont know how to add apache to the fc3 runlevel.. i'd recommend reading the docs on their sites? |
| 05:41.22 | beandog | Ok all is well with the world. |
| 05:41.24 | optikal- | 'rc-update add apache default' in gentoo =P |
| 05:41.26 | *** join/#uphpu tierra|h (tierra@c-67-166-119-150.client.comcast.net) |
| 05:41.27 | beandog | I fixed everything. |
| 05:41.29 | wps | if someone wants to be on call 24 hours a day to help me with anything I will need help with, then sure, I'll do it, but otherwise, I need to stick to what I know and have experience with right now because I need this server working yesterday :) |
| 05:41.43 | optikal- | wps: thats the beauty of gentoo, it has the best documentation ive ever seen |
| 05:41.57 | wps | I would like to see it |
| 05:41.59 | optikal- | wps: u could go from not knowing anything to do a full install with a custom kernel by going off their 'handbook' |
| 05:42.03 | beandog | optikal-: no kidding |
| 05:42.06 | optikal- | http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/index.xml |
| 05:42.11 | beandog | IF you READ. |
| 05:42.13 | wps | because generally open-source projects have absolutely awful documentation |
| 05:42.18 | beandog | If you dont read, you deserve every flaming death you get. |
| 05:42.24 | optikal- | tierra|h: please comment on gentoos handbook |
| 05:42.32 | beandog | :) |
| 05:42.41 | beandog | I'm just bitter from reading the forums. |
| 05:42.49 | wps | that's cool, optikal- |
| 05:43.07 | tierra|h | do not look at the gentoo handbook as just more "docs" it's seriously completely something different |
| 05:43.14 | optikal- | yah |
| 05:43.16 | optikal- | it is |
| 05:43.17 | beandog | agreed |
| 05:43.25 | beandog | Its polished and refined. |
| 05:43.48 | optikal- | it treats you like your intelligent, but teaches it to you so its simple because linux is quite intimidating |
| 05:43.51 | tierra|h | those are the words I would use to describe them |
| 05:44.08 | beandog | optikal-: okay, can you help again? Basically I need the bottom row to always be on the bottom: http://nephi.org/art/artist.php/108/ |
| 05:44.16 | beandog | er bottom row... bottom section, whatever. |
| 05:44.32 | wps | bottom of what? the browser? |
| 05:44.40 | beandog | bottom of the page |
| 05:44.45 | beandog | Basically I want 100% height |
| 05:44.49 | wps | forget it |
| 05:44.51 | beandog | and flush the bottom section down there. |
| 05:44.52 | beandog | bleh. |
| 05:44.55 | beandog | I was afraid youd say that. |
| 05:45.02 | wps | it is not supported by all browsers and really isn't worth the fight |
| 05:45.08 | beandog | I can do it with tables |
| 05:45.14 | beandog | I juts dont feel like looking it up. |
| 05:45.14 | wps | there are some hacks that can almost get it but it isn't worth the fight |
| 05:45.50 | optikal- | beandog: like optikal.org? |
| 05:45.59 | optikal- | where its stuck at the bottom, even if u scroll? |
| 05:46.14 | beandog | no, not stuck there. |
| 05:46.28 | optikal- | btw, props on the design.. nice and clean |
| 05:46.30 | beandog | just at the bottom of the page |
| 05:46.32 | beandog | not mine |
| 05:46.34 | optikal- | aah |
| 05:46.35 | beandog | gnomejournal.org |
| 05:46.40 | beandog | I SUCK at CSS |
| 05:46.44 | optikal- | heh |
| 05:46.46 | optikal- | im not too bad |
| 05:46.52 | optikal- | (see code of optikal.org, its PURE css) |
| 05:47.00 | optikal- | see code? erm source. |
| 05:47.16 | optikal- | if you dont want it stuck @ the bottom |
| 05:47.18 | optikal- | it gets tricky |
| 05:47.23 | optikal- | you need php/css/javascript |
| 05:47.30 | beandog | meh. |
| 05:47.35 | beandog | Not worth the effort tonight. |
| 05:47.41 | beandog | But Ill look into it. |
| 05:47.45 | optikal- | javascript to measure screen area and return it to php to write a dynamic floating container for that specific height. |
| 05:48.17 | optikal- | if you 'stick' it to the bottom, it doesnt work on ie |
| 05:50.07 | *** join/#uphpu dataw0lf (~runlevel5@dataw0lf.org) |
| 05:52.07 | optikal- | btw |
| 05:52.23 | optikal- | on gnomejournal.. its awesome that u got it setup if u disable css its still very viewable |
| 05:52.25 | optikal- | most ppl dont do that |
| 05:52.35 | optikal- | its actually called 'proper' web design heh |
| 06:00.13 | wps | a guy just blew a watermelon up on his head on Leno |
| 06:00.38 | optikal- | nice! |
| 06:00.44 | optikal- | i love watching ppl do really stupid stuff |
| 06:00.47 | wps | it looked cool in slow motion |
| 06:04.07 | wps | drewbono: guess what bigdog_ut and mindjuju taught jbot? |
| 06:04.20 | drewbono | What's that? |
| 06:04.26 | wps | how to give melvins |
| 06:04.27 | wps | nice, huh |
| 06:04.39 | wps | ~melvin drewbono |
| 06:04.42 | jbot | ACTION pulls drewbono underwear up to the ceiling...and smiles |
| 06:04.49 | drewbono | OUCH! |
| 06:04.53 | wps | they must have been really bored today |
| 06:05.06 | wps | and look what bigdog_ut did |
| 06:05.08 | wps | ~wps |
| 06:05.10 | jbot | somebody said wps was Mr. Wedgy Pants |
| 06:05.22 | optikal- | hehe yeh. |
| 06:05.27 | optikal- | they was havin some fun |
| 06:05.33 | wps | jbot, no, wps is Mr. Sexy Pants |
| 06:05.34 | jbot | okay, wps |
| 06:05.47 | wps | ~bigdog_ut-- |
| 06:05.51 | drewbono | Yeah, I saw that earlier. |
| 06:05.57 | optikal- | hmm. |
| 06:06.01 | optikal- | Wheres the w? =( |
| 06:06.09 | wps | oh, I was thinking you weren't online then |
| 06:06.12 | wps | the w? |
| 06:06.14 | optikal- | (w)edgie (p)ant(s) |
| 06:06.34 | optikal- | or atleast thats how i understood it the first time i read it =P |
| 06:06.41 | wps | oh |
| 06:06.45 | wps | wps is my initials |
| 06:06.50 | optikal- | im sure it is.. |
| 06:06.51 | optikal- | heh |
| 06:07.20 | dataw0lf | dataw0lf are my initials too. |
| 06:07.23 | dataw0lf | my parents are weird. |
| 06:07.33 | wps | you hawaiian? |
| 06:07.39 | wps | :) |
| 06:07.45 | wps | or native american? |
| 06:07.48 | dataw0lf | actually, I'm like, 5% polynesian. |
| 06:08.07 | dataw0lf | and 100% arsehole! |
| 06:08.17 | optikal- | woo.. u r l33z0r.. 105% person! |
| 06:08.35 | wps | he must have an eleventh toe or something |
| 06:08.56 | dataw0lf | arsehole isn't a racial background, it's a state of minds. |
| 06:08.57 | dataw0lf | idiots. |
| 06:09.01 | dataw0lf | see? |
| 06:09.33 | optikal- | yeh. it was a bad joke, OK? |
| 06:09.41 | dataw0lf | you suck. |
| 06:09.42 | optikal- | its all i got right now |
| 06:09.50 | optikal- | not nearly as much as you. |
| 06:09.53 | optikal- | ^^ see what i mean? |
| 06:10.08 | dataw0lf | I don't get it, you never have anything to come back with. |
| 06:10.14 | dataw0lf | why should today be any different. |
| 06:10.26 | optikal- | hah. i do from time to time. =P |
| 06:10.35 | optikal- | give me some slack.. |
| 06:10.51 | dataw0lf | I'm sorry. Comparing your incredibly dull wit to my razor sharp one isn't fair. |
| 06:11.10 | optikal- | i see |
| 06:11.43 | dataw0lf | I should whip up a python plugin for xchat that can be like a scoreboard or something. |
| 06:11.53 | dataw0lf | 'dataw0lf: 33334303 optikal-: 2' |
| 06:12.20 | dataw0lf | :) |
| 06:52.44 | dataw0lf | yeah, that shut SketchCow up. |
| 06:52.52 | dataw0lf | minor internet fame only gets you so far with me. |
| 06:53.46 | dataw0lf | tierra|h: I wouldn't worry what he says to you at all. |
| 06:55.28 | tierra|h | I wasn't... there was nothing wrong with what I said, and he just made a complete fool of himself by bringing it up in #ut2600 rather than private messaging me |
| 06:55.45 | dataw0lf | I got yo back. |
| 06:55.47 | tierra|h | I do now have a completely different opinion of him now though |
| 06:55.57 | optikal- | i agree.. hes puffed up about nothin |
| 06:56.17 | tierra|h | I was telling optikal- that I'm thinking of asking for a refund on my order of his documentary |
| 06:56.33 | dataw0lf | he's an idiot. |
| 06:56.33 | tierra|h | what a dick... attacked one of his own customers |
| 06:56.52 | optikal- | yah |
| 06:57.05 | tierra|h | stick around a minute, I'll have something to show you |
| 06:57.34 | optikal- | not that again... |
| 06:57.35 | optikal- | =P |
| 06:58.51 | tierra|h | no, j/k |
| 07:06.35 | dataw0lf | tierra|h: did SketchCow priv you ? |
| 07:07.12 | tierra|h | no, he never did |
| 07:07.20 | tierra|h | he should of... would of saved him his pride |
| 07:09.06 | *** join/#uphpu drewbono (~andrew@c-24-2-90-131.client.comcast.net) |
| 07:14.45 | tierra|h | http://www.linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=6353#6353 |
| 07:15.50 | optikal- | nice |
| 07:15.59 | optikal- | didnt know that was on linode.com *gasp* |
| 07:16.13 | optikal- | does he just google his name or something? |
| 07:16.56 | tierra|h | I don't know... he could of seen that thread as a referrer to his site... I _WAS_ plugging him |
| 07:17.12 | optikal- | hmm.. true |
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| 15:24.41 | usynic | woot. |
| 15:25.51 | usynic | some random guy in holland added filetransfer support to jbother |
| 15:26.06 | usynic | opensource is my hero |
| 15:29.47 | *** join/#uphpu bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.34.182) |
| 15:29.47 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o bigdog_ut] by ChanServ |
| 15:31.10 | *** join/#uphpu drip (~scoobmast@vortex.xnote.com) |
| 15:33.07 | *** join/#uphpu wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 15:33.17 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 15:33.25 | drip | ~lart bigdog_ut |
| 15:33.49 | bigdog_ut | ~melvin drip |
| 15:33.51 | jbot | ACTION pulls drip underwear up to the ceiling...and smiles |
| 15:34.29 | bigdog_ut | ~fishslap drip |
| 15:34.31 | jbot | ACTION slaps drip up side the head with a wet fish. |
| 15:34.49 | drip | ~beaverslap bigdog_ut |
| 15:34.54 | drip | lol doh |
| 15:41.58 | *** join/#uphpu mindjuju (~mindjuju@63.226.104.67) |
| 15:43.56 | wps | ~drewbono+_ |
| 15:43.57 | wps | oops |
| 15:44.01 | wps | ~drewbono++ |
| 15:44.14 | wps | ~drewbono++ |
| 15:44.18 | bigdog_ut | who...he must have saved the world |
| 15:44.30 | wps | he got sendmail working last night |
| 15:44.53 | bigdog_ut | sendmail...what a bunch of crap |
| 15:45.27 | usynic | rofl - http://r33b.net/ |
| 15:45.39 | usynic | (for you futurama fans) |
| 15:46.09 | wps | if you want to set up postfix on the server, by my guest |
| 15:46.48 | bigdog_ut | qmail...young padaone |
| 15:47.10 | wps | sure, qmail... I don't really care |
| 15:47.22 | wps | I am much more interested in the thing working than what it is |
| 15:47.26 | wps | :) |
| 15:50.35 | bigdog_ut | optikal_, you around |
| 15:53.13 | optikal_ | i just walked in the door and sat down in my office, sup |
| 15:53.46 | bigdog_ut | headed to 7-11 looking for my seeds...and remember...honey ones no good |
| 15:54.40 | optikal | hehe |
| 15:54.43 | optikal | i JUST came from 7-11 |
| 15:54.48 | optikal | and got me some david's originals |
| 15:55.00 | optikal | so i wont be jones'in today. =P |
| 15:55.10 | usynic | I'm actually undecided on whether or not I like the frito lay seeds more than the david |
| 15:55.25 | optikal | frito lay seeds? |
| 15:55.32 | usynic | yeah, in the green bag. |
| 15:55.34 | optikal | i dont believe i've seen those yet. |
| 15:55.45 | bigdog_ut | davids rocks |
| 15:55.48 | optikal | green bag? hmm.. the only green bag i know of are the 'Spitz' Dill flavor |
| 15:55.52 | usynic | http://www.fritolay.com/fl/flstore/cgi-bin/Nutrition_ProdID_4057.htm |
| 15:55.53 | bigdog_ut | i have tried many...and i keep coming back |
| 15:56.05 | bigdog_ut | spitz suck |
| 15:56.16 | usynic | yeah, spitz == no good |
| 15:56.17 | optikal | yah. david is superior |
| 15:56.23 | optikal | go david! |
| 15:56.24 | optikal | heh |
| 15:56.33 | bigdog_ut | and superior is the keyword there |
| 15:56.41 | optikal | that was way too much enthusiasm for this early and such lack of coffee. |
| 15:56.42 | drip | Mmm... david seeds |
| 15:56.48 | drip | what CAN'T they do?! |
| 15:57.02 | optikal | well.. a lot really.. but they are nummy, to say the least. |
| 15:57.10 | optikal | =P |
| 15:57.10 | bigdog_ut | nothing short of saving the world |
| 15:57.11 | drip | he he |
| 15:57.17 | optikal | haha |
| 16:00.36 | bigdog_ut | ~news |
| 16:00.42 | bigdog_ut | ~topic |
| 16:01.11 | bigdog_ut | ~topic list |
| 16:02.21 | bigdog_ut | ~help |
| 16:02.34 | bigdog_ut | ~slashdot |
| 16:03.18 | bigdog_ut | ~uphpu |
| 16:03.31 | bigdog_ut | wps, is the site still down? |
| 16:03.38 | wps | still in transition |
| 16:03.56 | wps | it is "up" but in a crippled state |
| 16:03.57 | bigdog_ut | u need help w/ anything? |
| 16:04.25 | wps | yes, I need an attorney to contact my ex-employer and get them to give me my files |
| 16:04.42 | wps | I also need help setting mailman up |
| 16:05.31 | bigdog_ut | perhaps we all need to make a phone call |
| 16:06.17 | wps | well, it is a careful matter because I am trying to not get sued (although I have done nothing wrong) |
| 16:07.26 | bigdog_ut | do you have a backup of the files |
| 16:07.36 | bigdog_ut | can some one there get you a copy? |
| 16:08.09 | wps | I have backups of most of the files, but I need MySQL dumps and some other critical data |
| 16:08.26 | bigdog_ut | can you connect remotely to mysql? |
| 16:08.38 | wps | no, it is set to localhost only |
| 16:10.57 | wps | well, I guess to answer your question more accurately, no, at least not in any ways that I am aware of |
| 16:26.31 | bigdog_ut | what is the name of the company you worked for again? |
| 16:42.43 | *** join/#uphpu tbye (~tbye@67.51.216.61) |
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| 16:47.33 | *** join/#uphpu tbye (~tbye@67.51.216.61) |
| 16:55.44 | optikal | Hey.. is it usual behavior to apply a style (background/border/etc) to a <th><td colspan="3"> (when there are only 3 cols) and the background/border doesnt start until its on the left side of the text (text is centered, and its not applying to the whole width of table, just to the left side of the text and all the way to the right side) |
| 16:55.55 | optikal | increasing to a colspan 4 or 5 (even tho there are not, but just for trying sakes) doesnt help either, obviously. |
| 16:56.19 | optikal | ive got a live example, if needed. |
| 16:56.56 | tbye | is the style on the text or the table elements? |
| 16:57.41 | tbye | I'll check the url if you post it |
| 16:58.04 | optikal | http://www.ugri.org/audio/index2.php |
| 16:58.21 | optikal | view source and goto the line starting with <table class="datatable" style=" the class "datatable" is empty.. im just specifying the class, doing the design inline, then moving it to the external css file |
| 16:58.40 | tbye | k |
| 16:59.05 | tbye | I think that's a misuse of the th tag... |
| 16:59.09 | tbye | th replaces td |
| 16:59.13 | optikal | does it |
| 16:59.22 | tbye | <tr><th></th></tr> |
| 16:59.30 | optikal | gotcha |
| 16:59.34 | tbye | <tr><td></td></tr> |
| 16:59.46 | tbye | that may have something to do with it. |
| 16:59.53 | optikal | yep |
| 16:59.55 | optikal | refreshed and works |
| 16:59.59 | tbye | :-) |
| 17:00.04 | optikal | that made me feel real n00b =( |
| 17:00.08 | optikal | but then again, i DONT design with tables |
| 17:00.08 | tbye | no worries |
| 17:00.14 | tbye | stupid frickin' html |
| 17:00.16 | tbye | lol |
| 17:00.17 | optikal | im not worried.. psha |
| 17:00.19 | optikal | =P |
| 17:00.25 | optikal | its all about the css love |
| 17:00.31 | tbye | I hear that. |
| 17:01.04 | tbye | For me right now, it's all about this bottle of Bawls I'm sippin' on... Yummerz! |
| 17:01.48 | optikal | hehe |
| 17:01.51 | optikal | i just finished my coffeee |
| 17:16.08 | tbye | I have serious ADD I think... the caffeine lets me focus a little easier. |
| 17:17.45 | optikal | yah |
| 17:17.49 | optikal | i have a smidgen add i believe |
| 17:17.56 | optikal | I always have to be doing/playing with something or pacing or whatever |
| 17:18.13 | tbye | I can't sleep without the TV on... lol |
| 17:18.20 | optikal | hmm |
| 17:18.25 | optikal | i have to have a fan on high |
| 17:18.37 | tbye | I don't even watch... I just have to have noise. |
| 17:19.23 | optikal | yah |
| 17:19.25 | optikal | thats what the fan provides |
| 17:19.28 | optikal | a constant 'white noise' |
| 17:22.19 | *** join/#uphpu synic (~synic@66.239.17.228.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 17:36.48 | *** join/#uphpu mindjuju (~mindjuju@63.226.104.67) |
| 17:44.06 | bigdog_ut | some peoples children |
| 17:44.47 | optikal | hah |
| 17:50.38 | wps | generally, on linux... |
| 17:50.43 | wps | what goes in "usr" ? |
| 17:50.48 | wps | what goes in "var" ? |
| 18:03.22 | bigdog_ut | wps |
| 18:03.32 | wps | yes |
| 18:03.47 | bigdog_ut | usr should contain the following dirs |
| 18:03.57 | bigdog_ut | bin, include, lib, local, sbin, share |
| 18:04.00 | *** join/#uphpu alphahawk (~alphahawk@70.56.105.158) |
| 18:04.37 | bigdog_ut | under bin most user commands |
| 18:04.53 | bigdog_ut | include => standard include files |
| 18:04.59 | alphahawk | Hey everyone. |
| 18:05.05 | bigdog_ut | lib => libs for programming and packages |
| 18:05.34 | bigdog_ut | local => used by the system administrator when installing software locally |
| 18:06.05 | bigdog_ut | under /usr/local you have the following: bin,etc,games,include,lib,man,sbin,share,src |
| 18:06.32 | bigdog_ut | /usr/sbin => system binaries |
| 18:06.41 | bigdog_ut | /usr/share => arch independent data |
| 18:07.12 | optikal | another css question |
| 18:07.13 | optikal | if I have .foo td { } and then .foo_bar { } and they both apply background-color, it automatically takes .foo td {}'s background color, even if I place the .foo_bar {} class below the .foo td {}.. how do I apply this behavior properly? obviuosly, if i apply .foo_bar{}'s information to the block level element in an inline style, it works great.. but i want to apply it with a external css class.. |
| 18:07.13 | bigdog_ut | under /usr/share => dict,doc,games,info,locale,nls,sgml,terminfo,tmac,xml,zoneinfo |
| 18:07.38 | bigdog_ut | wps, here is the var dir |
| 18:07.48 | wps | thanks... I am reading what you are typing |
| 18:08.04 | bigdog_ut | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:08.24 | bigdog_ut | and it also contains some symlinks too |
| 18:08.39 | bigdog_ut | like account,crach,games,mail,yp |
| 18:08.47 | optikal | nice! our fridge just got stocked with more bud light, fresca, dr. pepper, mtn dew and water.. i love my job lol |
| 18:09.00 | bigdog_ut | wps now remember that this is all from a standard that many distros do not follow |
| 18:09.10 | wps | yeah :) |
| 18:09.18 | bigdog_ut | check out http://www.pathname.com/fhs if you would like to read more on the standard |
| 18:09.27 | *** join/#uphpu fungus (~fungus@firebat.aros.net) |
| 18:09.34 | wps | thanks |
| 18:09.36 | bigdog_ut | some distros *cough gentoo* are moving towards the standard |
| 18:10.22 | optikal | hehe |
| 18:10.31 | optikal | standard isnt always the best way.. but yah, standards r good |
| 18:11.07 | bigdog_ut | standards are good when you want the best of everything open source |
| 18:11.32 | bigdog_ut | its a pain when dealing with redhat, mandrake, debian |
| 18:11.33 | optikal | yeah |
| 18:11.43 | alphahawk | Question. newb question what do I need to look at to open a new browser from a current running window? |
| 18:11.46 | optikal | that is true... |
| 18:11.54 | optikal | but each distro needs to continue to be unique |
| 18:12.03 | optikal | alphahawk: 2 ways |
| 18:12.12 | optikal | alphahawk: both are lame and gay, and shouldnt be used.. but if you must.. |
| 18:12.37 | optikal | alphahawk: the worst way that is against new web standards and no longer validates as proper html strict code, is target="_blank" |
| 18:12.44 | bigdog_ut | unique is good...fresh and new...however, since everything is open...i would like to always find x in the same place or xorg |
| 18:12.50 | optikal | like.. <a href="a.htm" target="_blank">asdf</a> |
| 18:13.11 | alphahawk | optikal: I agree and most likely windows sp2 will stop it from opening. but hey its what this project is calling for |
| 18:13.16 | bigdog_ut | and not have to track down different implementations of the same thing |
| 18:13.59 | alphahawk | optikal now question is there a way to do it without a link? |
| 18:15.57 | alphahawk | what is the other way? |
| 18:17.48 | optikal | alphahawk: the other way is javascript, which is blocked (sorry, had a quick talk with the bossman) |
| 18:17.54 | optikal | erm |
| 18:17.57 | bigdog_ut | optikal, is choking on a seed now |
| 18:18.00 | optikal | which is blocked by most popupblockers. |
| 18:18.38 | *** join/#uphpu mindjuju (~mindjuju@63.226.104.67) |
| 18:18.48 | optikal | bigdog_ut: i agree with you entirely, however i dispute the fact that every distro should follow the same standards.. maybe a base standard + distro additions or whatever, but if everything is done the same (maybe im taking what your sraying wrong) then each distro wouldnt be quite as unique |
| 18:18.59 | optikal | bigdog_ut: I *love* gentoos rc-update.. its greatness |
| 18:19.09 | optikal | alphahawk: without a link? such as.. text? a button? an image? |
| 18:19.16 | optikal | cause really.. what is a link? |
| 18:19.29 | optikal | its something you click that takes you somewhere else or shows or changes something |
| 18:19.33 | alphahawk | it autopops up auto |
| 18:19.50 | optikal | so loads a popup when the page loads? |
| 18:19.53 | alphahawk | yes |
| 18:19.57 | optikal | javascript again. |
| 18:20.03 | optikal | ive written code to do it |
| 18:20.09 | optikal | but 99% of the time, it WILL be blocked by popup blockers |
| 18:20.17 | optikal | 60% of popup blockers allow a popup "on click" |
| 18:20.18 | bigdog_ut | optikal, i agree to a point...i think that all libs some be in a central place...now how they set that up is okay |
| 18:20.23 | optikal | but they almost always block on autoload. |
| 18:20.36 | alphahawk | ya I figure but hey |
| 18:20.43 | bigdog_ut | for example if you have /usr/lib/openssl/*.so then that is cool |
| 18:20.47 | optikal | bigdog_ut: maybe keep the basic standard commands.. so its easier to interchange and do things from distro to distro, and keep the rc-update, or the unique ways |
| 18:20.53 | bigdog_ut | while some might just put all in the /usr/lib |
| 18:21.04 | optikal | alphahawk: really.. and honestly, if you can at any expense, avoid popups.. they'll be done with in a year |
| 18:21.09 | optikal | yeah |
| 18:21.20 | optikal | directory structures and all, i agree, should be much more standardized. |
| 18:21.48 | bigdog_ut | yes...now how they set up underneath that is cool |
| 18:22.03 | optikal | we're buying X-Cart today and merging from our bCentral hosted shopping cart to EVERYthing hosted inhouse.. praise the lord! |
| 18:22.04 | bigdog_ut | i like how gentoo does it under /usr/share |
| 18:22.15 | optikal | yeah |
| 18:22.28 | optikal | I *HATE* bCEntral.. such a buncha.. lame-os. =) |
| 18:22.41 | bigdog_ut | but i dont like how distros move stuff around and from version to version either |
| 18:22.55 | optikal | bigdog_ut: oh yes.. thats ghettoness |
| 18:23.06 | optikal | macnewbold: yah.. X-Cart really seems like the *best* option. |
| 18:23.15 | optikal | macnewbold: so versatile, tonsa modules, and i get free rights to the source. |
| 18:23.27 | bigdog_ut | and i like having all my config under /etc |
| 18:23.38 | macnewbold | I like building custom carts mostly, cause my clients always seem to want non-standard stuff for one thing or another |
| 18:23.39 | optikal | yah |
| 18:24.08 | bigdog_ut | the reason i like it is that i like to mount /etc sometimes as read-only and have it under a separate partition |
| 18:24.18 | bigdog_ut | then i can cvs /etc/ and move files to different servers |
| 18:24.36 | bigdog_ut | and track my mess ups |
| 18:24.40 | optikal | it threw me off when i installed php5 under gentoo and my php config was in /etc/apache2/conf/ |
| 18:24.48 | optikal | macnewbold: yah.. X-Cart fits our needs perfectly |
| 18:24.52 | optikal | macnewbold: too perfect, it seems =P |
| 18:25.10 | bigdog_ut | yeah...but it was under /etc is the main point i am after |
| 18:25.12 | optikal | macnewbold: which is awesome for me.. meaning less focus into that, and more focus into future projects |
| 18:25.15 | mindjuju | macnewbold, have a moment? |
| 18:25.20 | optikal | bigdog_ut: yeah.. exactly |
| 18:25.25 | optikal | bigdog_ut: i def. see where your coming from |
| 18:25.32 | bigdog_ut | like you said optikal they can do what ever...but as long as i know it is under /etc |
| 18:25.37 | optikal | yeah |
| 18:25.40 | bigdog_ut | or /usr/local/share i am cool |
| 18:25.42 | optikal | give you a starting point. |
| 18:25.46 | optikal | somewhere to run off. |
| 18:26.00 | optikal | so ur not .. uh.. duh.. where is it.. 'updatedb' heh |
| 18:26.10 | bigdog_ut | one think i dont like about gentoo is that portage is under /usr |
| 18:26.27 | bigdog_ut | i think it should be somewhere else...but i guess it dont matter what i think |
| 18:26.33 | optikal | no it doesnt.. your a nobody man |
| 18:26.35 | optikal | =P |
| 18:26.40 | optikal | i dont mind that, really. |
| 18:26.43 | optikal | im use to it, however. |
| 18:27.35 | bigdog_ut | i would like /usr/portage/dist under /usr/local/src though |
| 18:28.06 | optikal | that does make some sense |
| 18:28.11 | optikal | rewrite it up =P |
| 18:28.20 | optikal | but obv its really not that important |
| 18:28.23 | optikal | so we just deal with it |
| 18:28.30 | bigdog_ut | perhaps i just need to get involved..but i have no time |
| 18:28.35 | optikal | yah |
| 18:28.38 | macnewbold | mindjuju: yeah, what's up? |
| 18:28.42 | optikal | i see gentoo really going places, soon |
| 18:28.52 | bigdog_ut | i hope so |
| 18:28.55 | optikal | their handbook is just so awesome.. they're heading in the right direction that the industry needs |
| 18:28.59 | optikal | thats how i feel |
| 18:29.12 | optikal | others are doing great too, but i think gentoo has a bit of an edge on everyone else.. esp. with their handbook. |
| 18:29.15 | bigdog_ut | i agree...the installation guide is *THE BEST* i have read |
| 18:29.20 | mindjuju | in the last meeting, you said you disliked javascript . I have to check to see if a form element was selected and if not, have them select one. is there a way to do that in php? |
| 18:29.29 | optikal | worse case scenario however, it will influence other distros to release better handbook/documentation |
| 18:29.31 | mindjuju | at least i thought that was you that said it |
| 18:29.47 | bigdog_ut | optikal, yeah....that would be good |
| 18:30.02 | macnewbold | mindjuju: yeah, it was. I avoid javascript whenever I can, and when I use it, I make sure it isn't required for proper functioning of the site |
| 18:30.07 | macnewbold | yes, you can do it in php. |
| 18:30.14 | macnewbold | what are you passing in the variable as? |
| 18:30.23 | macnewbold | i.e. what are you html input/select/whatever tags? |
| 18:30.31 | mindjuju | it's a radio button |
| 18:30.54 | mindjuju | so rightnow it looks like this |
| 18:30.55 | mindjuju | <input name="package" type="radio" value="<?=$ra[ID]?>"> |
| 18:31.01 | optikal | yah |
| 18:31.11 | bigdog_ut | javascript rocks |
| 18:31.17 | optikal | bigdog_ut: yah.. and rocks are soft. |
| 18:31.21 | mindjuju | i'm guessing you'd have to submit the form before php could check? |
| 18:31.26 | optikal | yeah |
| 18:31.30 | macnewbold | mindjuju: yes |
| 18:31.33 | optikal | thats the advantage javascript has over php |
| 18:31.36 | macnewbold | since php is server side |
| 18:31.39 | bigdog_ut | or have javascript check for you |
| 18:31.39 | optikal | yep |
| 18:31.55 | optikal | http://www.ezwatchstore.com/dealerapp/application.php |
| 18:31.58 | macnewbold | being client side isn't always an advantage (usually, it's not), it's just different |
| 18:31.59 | optikal | i just did that awhile ago |
| 18:32.14 | macnewbold | you'll have to check server side anyway, if you really want to make sure, so the client side stuff is just icing |
| 18:32.15 | mindjuju | so mac, would you use php or js in this case? |
| 18:32.21 | optikal | it just uses javascript.. its not SUPER important that it has to be there, cause if it doesnt, its not the end of hte world. |
| 18:32.28 | macnewbold | either php only, or php+javascript |
| 18:32.39 | bigdog_ut | icing is good when you want to limit server side processing |
| 18:32.39 | macnewbold | anyone may have js turned off, or may not support it |
| 18:32.41 | optikal | it depends really, how important it is for that data to be there |
| 18:32.58 | mindjuju | critical in this case |
| 18:33.03 | optikal | then js + php |
| 18:33.05 | macnewbold | but you can never trust anything that was supposed to happen in javascript actually happened |
| 18:33.23 | mindjuju | see, and this is an ecom site and this is part of ecom functionality |
| 18:33.32 | mindjuju | that's why I was leaning strong towards PHP in this case |
| 18:33.32 | optikal | so check on all fields (feel free to steal that JS code on that page, i didnt write it actually) and then on submit, check all $_POST[] variables |
| 18:33.43 | mindjuju | I want the server to supervise, no "funny stuff" |
| 18:33.46 | macnewbold | cause they might not run it, or worse, they might fake it maliciously |
| 18:33.58 | mindjuju | exactly |
| 18:34.01 | optikal | you can even skip a process |
| 18:34.07 | optikal | and just do php.. cause in reality, it will do both jobs |
| 18:34.09 | mindjuju | they may try to change values, test for values |
| 18:34.34 | optikal | and if you do it right, they wont have to hit 'bac' or whatever.. just recho the content into the fields, and then echo a note on that field or at the top regarding the problem |
| 18:34.44 | optikal | s/bac/back |
| 18:35.02 | macnewbold | right... always refill the form when there's an error with the submission |
| 18:35.09 | macnewbold | the only one that doesn't work for is file uploads |
| 18:35.15 | macnewbold | cause once they hit submit, it sends the file |
| 18:35.26 | macnewbold | and you can't prefill file uploads (For security reasons) |
| 18:35.43 | optikal | macnewbold: well, the easiest way is to automatically fill in the form based off variables.. and then if its a new form, obv. the variables wont be set and it wont error. |
| 18:36.04 | optikal | Just every field... value="<?=$form_name?> |
| 18:36.07 | macnewbold | not sure I caught all that, but yeah |
| 18:36.32 | optikal | i always specify a echo value from a variable for each input field.. even if its displaying a blank form |
| 18:36.36 | bigdog_ut | optikal, whatz up with short tags |
| 18:36.37 | macnewbold | the varaibles they submit should get filled into the value filds |
| 18:36.50 | optikal | because if its a blank form, or a 'new submission', it wont echo anything.. which is ok |
| 18:36.53 | optikal | right |
| 18:36.54 | macnewbold | its a little harder with dropdowns, radios and checkboxes, but not terrible |
| 18:36.57 | macnewbold | right |
| 18:37.01 | optikal | bigdog_ut: ?? i like shorthand |
| 18:37.09 | optikal | bigdog_ut: atleast for a simple 1 variable echo. |
| 18:37.11 | bigdog_ut | oh man |
| 18:37.37 | optikal | fill me in then, mr. knowledgefull |
| 18:37.46 | optikal | i obviously lack the knowledge of the reason why i shouldnt.. |
| 18:38.01 | bigdog_ut | i use to much xml for it |
| 18:38.06 | optikal | i dont |
| 18:38.07 | optikal | heh |
| 18:38.25 | optikal | Its just much easier to do <?=$var?> than <?php echo $var; ?> |
| 18:38.36 | bigdog_ut | yeah |
| 18:39.13 | optikal | yah |
| 18:39.16 | optikal | im just now learning templates |
| 18:39.22 | optikal | so gimme a break |
| 18:39.26 | synic | hehe. |
| 18:39.27 | optikal | =P |
| 18:39.58 | bigdog_ut | xml & xslt for templates rock |
| 18:39.59 | optikal | when i redo my companies site for a multiple-store e-commernce master site, we'll most definately be using templates.. havent narrowed down to which template yet, but pretty sure a template. |
| 18:40.08 | optikal | really? ill have to read up on that |
| 18:40.51 | bigdog_ut | cuts down on server bandwidth and processing |
| 18:41.00 | bigdog_ut | very similar to how css works |
| 18:41.07 | optikal | interesting |
| 18:41.14 | optikal | thats a big concern of mine when i rewrite, so. |
| 18:41.27 | optikal | we'll be receiving upwards of 100,000 hits a day once its done |
| 18:41.41 | bigdog_ut | send the xslt files once and let the browser do the transform with the xml file on the client |
| 18:41.49 | bigdog_ut | so server just sends xml data |
| 18:41.54 | bigdog_ut | most of the time |
| 18:46.54 | bigdog_ut | mindjuju, wps has done some killer stuff with forms and php...he might have some advice |
| 18:48.49 | mindjuju | sorry, just noticed your comments |
| 18:48.54 | mindjuju | WPS, are you in? |
| 18:49.00 | wps | I am |
| 18:49.36 | mindjuju | I'm decided that since I'm doing the eCom part of a website, that I should have PHP verify form info |
| 18:49.44 | mindjuju | that way no funny business on the side of the client |
| 18:49.58 | mindjuju | Bigdog_ut suggested you may have advice as you have experience in this area? |
| 18:50.28 | wps | yes, you should always have PHP validate your data |
| 18:50.32 | wps | can't trust javascript |
| 18:51.29 | wps | I actually don't even use javascript because I hate popups |
| 18:51.47 | wps | I submit the page to itself... validate and then prepare an array of error messages |
| 18:52.20 | wps | the form is set to dynamically create a sentence containing all of the way in which the entry is invalid beneath or to the side of the form field |
| 18:52.40 | wps | thus, the user can just keep submitting the form until they finally get all of the data correct |
| 18:53.11 | mindjuju | that's really good idea. |
| 18:53.41 | wps | making the error messages is easy to |
| 18:53.55 | wps | don't make them specific to the field |
| 18:53.57 | wps | make general ones |
| 18:53.58 | wps | ie: |
| 18:54.16 | wps | field may only contain alpha characters |
| 18:54.20 | wps | field may only contain numerals |
| 18:54.38 | wps | field must be at least 4 characters in length |
| 18:54.50 | wps | then for each field, you set its requirements |
| 18:55.08 | wps | such as $field_one = array(1,4,3); |
| 18:55.48 | wps | and then for each requirment for that field, the validator checks... and for each item it fails against, it stuffs the error message code into the errors array |
| 18:56.53 | mindjuju | so after they submit the form, the form posts back to itself to verify, then if ok, sends to the next page? How do you jump the variables that you need from the first page to the second? as part of the URL in a header redirect? |
| 18:57.46 | wps | in a multi-page form? |
| 18:58.15 | wps | if you are doing a multi-page form, then you will want to carry the vars in the user's session |
| 18:58.31 | mindjuju | yeah, that's what i was thinking |
| 18:59.14 | mindjuju | now, when i learned vbscript, session variables were "of the devil" as they presented extra server burden, does PHP carry session variables more efficently? |
| 18:59.37 | bigdog_ut | then iis |
| 18:59.39 | bigdog_ut | ? |
| 18:59.48 | wps | I have never heard then described as bad overhead |
| 19:00.03 | mindjuju | yes, when i learned vbscript, though now I'm running apache on linux |
| 19:00.27 | mindjuju | k, well, if your not worried about it, i won't, it may have been an issue on IIS 4 - 5 |
| 19:01.32 | bigdog_ut | there is always overhead when you have sessions |
| 19:02.01 | mindjuju | right and the more clients visiting the server, the more sessions, the more server drain of resources |
| 19:02.04 | bigdog_ut | you have i/o overhead especially, however, you have to way the cose |
| 19:02.05 | bigdog_ut | cost |
| 19:02.17 | wps | uphpu.org is almost back up |
| 19:02.25 | bigdog_ut | so you modify the session settings for you site |
| 19:06.02 | bigdog_ut | u can also have sessions stored in memory too |
| 19:06.21 | bigdog_ut | which if you have a server w/ tons of memory then it is nice |
| 19:06.55 | bigdog_ut | i had a webserver with 16g of memory once and it rocked |
| 19:07.49 | mindjuju | i bet |
| 19:08.12 | wps | how do I check which version of MySQL I have? |
| 19:08.26 | bigdog_ut | mysql -v |
| 19:08.28 | mindjuju | doesn't phpmyadmin say? |
| 19:08.44 | wps | I don't use phpmyadmin |
| 19:08.44 | bigdog_ut | or rpm -qa | grep mysql |
| 19:09.28 | mindjuju | wps, is it because you haven't gotten around to installing it or because you know something i don't? |
| 19:09.49 | wps | I have never had a need |
| 19:09.50 | bigdog_ut | wps, make sure mysql is up and running |
| 19:09.56 | wps | it is running |
| 19:10.07 | wps | I am perfectly content with MySQL monitor (just using the CLI) |
| 19:10.36 | bigdog_ut | mysqladmin version works too |
| 19:10.44 | mindjuju | ~praise wps on his awesome kung fu |
| 19:10.46 | jbot | All hail wps on his awesome kung fu! |
| 19:11.20 | wps | so what's the latest version? |
| 19:11.22 | scottj | mindjuju, re nice text editor for blogs, it might also be pretty cool to have a nice editor for changing a site's header.php etc and css files and any files via the webbrowser, securely. |
| 19:11.47 | mindjuju | what's it called? |
| 19:12.46 | scottj | it's just an idea. |
| 19:13.07 | mindjuju | oh, i thought you said you found one |
| 19:13.19 | mindjuju | yeah, i'm planning on building this weekend |
| 19:13.28 | mindjuju | while watching Napeolen dynamite |
| 19:13.30 | mindjuju | Dag! |
| 19:14.00 | mindjuju | laptops = friend |
| 19:14.37 | mindjuju | i guess ya'll haven't seen dynamite. |
| 19:14.46 | mindjuju | it's pretty funny |
| 19:17.24 | mindjuju | cool, so you know why i said dag. or was it dang that he always says |
| 19:21.36 | mindjuju | isn't there a way to see what page lead you to the page your currently on |
| 19:21.41 | mindjuju | i thought it was called referer page |
| 19:22.02 | wps | yes |
| 19:22.03 | optikal | yeah |
| 19:22.45 | dataw0lf | you don't use phpmyadmin, wps? |
| 19:22.51 | wps | no |
| 19:22.54 | dataw0lf | wow. |
| 19:23.22 | wps | the CLI has always worked fine for me |
| 19:23.33 | wps | I guess I should check out phpmysqladmin some time |
| 19:23.48 | wps | I just haven't been unsatisfied with the terminal yet |
| 19:23.48 | dataw0lf | it'll speed up your development. |
| 19:24.32 | optikal | oh man |
| 19:24.32 | wps | 'HTTP_REFERER' |
| 19:24.39 | optikal | if not phpmyadmin, atleast MySQL Front |
| 19:24.40 | fungus | imho, you should lean the CLI first to get the concepts down, then move on to things that make life easy. |
| 19:24.44 | wps | $_SERVER['HTTP_REFERER'] |
| 19:24.46 | optikal | i actually use both |
| 19:24.54 | optikal | fungus: exactly |
| 19:24.57 | wps | agreed, fungus |
| 19:25.02 | dataw0lf | fungus: I agree, to a point, but if you already understand SQL, I don't see a reason not to use it. |
| 19:25.06 | wps | it has really helped me learn |
| 19:25.10 | optikal | dataw0lf: and exactly. |
| 19:25.30 | dataw0lf | course, after you understand SQL enough, you'll start using postgres :) |
| 19:25.56 | fungus | lol, I have yet to come up with a need for anything but MySQL. |
| 19:26.37 | bigdog_ut | and postgresql you just use the commandline |
| 19:26.51 | bigdog_ut | triggers, stored procs, views |
| 19:26.52 | dataw0lf | psh, no way, phppgadmin rox0rz. |
| 19:27.12 | bigdog_ut | it suckz...compared to phpmyadmin |
| 19:27.20 | bigdog_ut | i hate it |
| 19:27.31 | dataw0lf | man, I love it compared to phppgadmin, heh. |
| 19:27.34 | dataw0lf | err phpmyadmin |
| 19:28.02 | dataw0lf | bigdog_ut: seen this: http://www.twistedmatrix.com/users/glyph/rant/python-vs-java.html ? |
| 19:28.08 | bigdog_ut | it doesnt handle some the complex stuff really well and it is still chunky |
| 19:28.38 | dataw0lf | yeah, I have to resort to the CLI every now and then, but I do the same with MySQL |
| 19:28.55 | bigdog_ut | dataw0lf, why compare a scripted language to a virtual machine |
| 19:29.00 | bigdog_ut | there is no comparing |
| 19:29.11 | bigdog_ut | c will always be faster than java |
| 19:29.14 | dataw0lf | I just like the code snippets side by side. |
| 19:29.41 | bigdog_ut | python is nice |
| 19:29.44 | dataw0lf | it just reinforces why I hate Java so much. |
| 19:30.05 | bigdog_ut | depends on what you are doing |
| 19:30.17 | bigdog_ut | a jvm offers alot of great features |
| 19:30.20 | dataw0lf | I'll never do anything in Java. |
| 19:30.31 | bigdog_ut | persistence, multithreading |
| 19:32.15 | dataw0lf | Python supports multithreading *boggle* |
| 19:32.50 | dataw0lf | although if I was going to do a multithreaded app, I wouldn't write it in either. |
| 19:32.56 | fungus | Doesn't the python interpreter act as a virtual machine? |
| 19:33.29 | bigdog_ut | the multi-threading in python is not all that widely used and it basic at most |
| 19:33.44 | bigdog_ut | and it is dependent on the platform that you are on |
| 19:34.00 | fungus | Oh, I haven't explored python enough to know about that. thanks for the info. |
| 19:34.04 | bigdog_ut | in java the jvm handles the multithreading and works with the underlying os |
| 19:34.34 | bigdog_ut | and you have have to compile python for multithreading |
| 19:34.57 | dataw0lf | Yeah. |
| 19:35.30 | dataw0lf | and the Python interpreter isn't really a VM. |
| 19:35.34 | bigdog_ut | i think both languages have their place an python does have a big place in development |
| 19:35.39 | fungus | multithreading is way above what I know and/or need. |
| 19:35.42 | bigdog_ut | it is an interpreter |
| 19:36.01 | bigdog_ut | multithreading is good in gui applications |
| 19:36.16 | bigdog_ut | and heavy enterprise apps |
| 19:36.16 | fungus | I have never done a gui app. :) |
| 19:36.32 | dataw0lf | the only GUI apps that I've done are for personal use, I don't do them professionally. |
| 19:36.43 | bigdog_ut | though i am suprised that java native methods are fast |
| 19:37.08 | fungus | Well, unless you count that very short VB stint. which I don't. |
| 19:37.16 | dataw0lf | well, comparatively fast. |
| 19:37.27 | bigdog_ut | 3.2x faster |
| 19:37.38 | dataw0lf | right, to Python. |
| 19:38.28 | bigdog_ut | the one thing that gets me is the hash comparison |
| 19:38.42 | bigdog_ut | you have to really look at each hash type implementation |
| 19:38.45 | mindjuju | so on the $_SERVER['HTTP_REFERER'], it's sending the whole URL, if I want to make the code so that it can be moved to anywebsite, I'll need it to just check the webpage. To do that, i'll probably need to split the URL into an array and pop the bottom element off to just get the page, right, or is there an easier way? |
| 19:39.43 | fungus | http://us2.php.net/manual/en/function.parse-url.php |
| 19:40.09 | bigdog_ut | also the i/o test i would not consider to valid...java has a new implementation that is faster |
| 19:41.34 | bigdog_ut | holy crap that is an old vm that he is testing |
| 19:41.44 | bigdog_ut | 1.1.7 |
| 19:42.04 | mindjuju | dag! that's craziness! the fucntion basename will zoom straight on it. |
| 19:42.08 | dataw0lf | it's from 2000 |
| 19:42.10 | mindjuju | thnx fungus for the url |
| 19:42.49 | dataw0lf | http://www.hotsteamyteens.com/bench.php |
| 19:43.00 | macnewbold | looks like I need to get the notes from the strings presentation up on the web :) |
| 19:44.16 | optikal | macnewbold: yah.. slacker |
| 19:44.16 | optikal | =P |
| 19:44.30 | macnewbold | dataw0lf: so why isn't PHP in the benchmark comparison? |
| 19:44.48 | dataw0lf | actually, he's putting it in there. |
| 19:46.25 | bigdog_ut | what crackz me up is that this is a python guy trying to compare a language that he does not use |
| 19:46.32 | macnewbold | that's what I want to know about... |
| 19:46.43 | fungus | Looks like perl shines everywhere java has weakness. |
| 19:46.53 | synic | bigdog_ut: he was just bored. |
| 19:47.01 | bigdog_ut | obviously he was |
| 19:47.07 | synic | he actually doesn't currently use any of those languages yet. |
| 19:47.11 | synic | he's trying to decide on one |
| 19:47.22 | dataw0lf | synic: he's talking about glyph, not com4 |
| 19:47.26 | synic | oh. |
| 19:47.34 | dataw0lf | yeah, but the guy with the bench.php doesn't use any of them. |
| 19:47.36 | synic | <-- clueless. |
| 19:48.24 | fungus | The domain name scared me originally. I was worried it wasn't "work-safe". |
| 19:48.34 | dataw0lf | yeah, that's why they registered it. |
| 19:48.56 | synic | I'm surprised it was available. |
| 19:49.04 | synic | that domain should have been taken in 1920 |
| 19:49.19 | dataw0lf | well, I think they registered it a while back. |
| 19:49.27 | dataw0lf | the zzq crew has been around for a while. |
| 19:50.02 | bigdog_ut | java and perl seem to be doing good |
| 19:50.35 | fungus | http://www.nullcube.com/software/pyopenbsd.html |
| 19:50.42 | bigdog_ut | but it is hard to compare interpreters and vms |
| 19:50.47 | fungus | Neat way to manage your firewalls. |
| 19:51.19 | bigdog_ut | i am suprised they did not do per and ruby objects |
| 19:51.34 | synic | bigdog_ut: I wrote up the ruby object one, he'll be putting it in |
| 19:51.49 | tbye | Anyone know of a decent python effort to port ruby on rails? |
| 19:52.03 | tbye | speaking of such other languages |
| 19:52.20 | tbye | or to php for that matter |
| 19:52.24 | synic | rails isn't really all that big... I'm sure it wouldn't take anyone much time to write it up |
| 19:52.24 | fungus | I want a php port of ruby on rails. so bad it hurts. |
| 19:52.41 | tbye | synic... I think you're right |
| 19:52.44 | fungus | right, but I am too lazy to do it. |
| 19:53.00 | bigdog_ut | then y dont you guys do it |
| 19:53.03 | tbye | hey... uphpu project! |
| 19:53.10 | dataw0lf | heh |
| 19:53.13 | dataw0lf | Ruby on Rails |
| 19:53.15 | bigdog_ut | it could be |
| 19:53.19 | dataw0lf | check out this site. |
| 19:53.20 | dataw0lf | http://naeblis.cx/rtomayko/2005/01/23/no-rails-for-python |
| 19:53.36 | dataw0lf | the Python community has been laughing at Ruby on Rails since it came out. |
| 19:54.04 | dataw0lf | Lessee... Rails seems to have: |
| 19:54.04 | dataw0lf | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:54.04 | dataw0lf | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:54.04 | dataw0lf | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:54.06 | dataw0lf | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:54.09 | dataw0lf | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:54.11 | dataw0lf | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:54.16 | dataw0lf | All three of these pieces fit together really well in Rails, which is perhaps what it offers that Python doesn't have |
| 19:54.19 | dataw0lf | woops, sorry bout that. |
| 19:54.59 | tbye | It's all good. |
| 19:55.02 | synic | code embedding should be banished anyway. |
| 19:55.12 | synic | imo |
| 19:55.19 | dataw0lf | http://subway.python-hosting.com/ |
| 19:55.27 | dataw0lf | ^^- and there's what you were looking for. |
| 19:55.41 | tbye | synic... birds of a feather we are. |
| 19:55.47 | synic | hehe |
| 19:57.39 | dataw0lf | I don't think that anyone argues against separating content / presentation / code |
| 19:58.00 | tbye | Not in general... but when you see their code... |
| 19:58.04 | bigdog_ut | no |
| 19:58.22 | bigdog_ut | but regardless you will always have logic in presentation |
| 19:58.51 | dataw0lf | obviously. |
| 19:59.04 | tbye | Well as long as it is a means for presentation it's well placed. |
| 19:59.23 | tbye | controller |
| 19:59.26 | bigdog_ut | that is where the battle rages |
| 19:59.36 | bigdog_ut | how much logic in presentation |
| 19:59.59 | bigdog_ut | so thus we get presentation-logic |
| 20:00.05 | tbye | round 1.... FIGHT! |
| 20:00.08 | tbye | lol |
| 20:00.24 | bigdog_ut | i see a seperation of business logic and presentation/logic |
| 20:00.37 | bigdog_ut | business logic like: adding user, deleteing users |
| 20:00.56 | bigdog_ut | presentation logic: which color to display for this and that |
| 20:01.09 | tbye | presentation... display a list of users... provided as an object.. etc. |
| 20:01.18 | tbye | iteration is an obvious need. |
| 20:01.29 | bigdog_ut | yes on both sides |
| 20:01.54 | bigdog_ut | like wps are working on a site that we have logic in the presentation |
| 20:02.14 | bigdog_ut | but there is a very big line between presentation and business logic |
| 20:02.51 | dataw0lf | indeed. |
| 20:02.53 | tbye | I'm making a lot of efforts to use XMLHttpRequest objects these days... such that I can afford trips to the server without dealing with visual refresh of the browser. |
| 20:03.19 | bigdog_ut | yeah...those are killer from what wps has mention to me |
| 20:03.25 | bigdog_ut | sounds cool |
| 20:03.42 | tbye | Perhaps it's a topic worthy of coverage at a meeting... |
| 20:03.52 | tbye | it's javascript and client driven... but might be useful. |
| 20:04.12 | tbye | definitely crossbrowser. |
| 20:04.19 | bigdog_ut | i think if you implemented it with php that would make a good discussion |
| 20:04.31 | tbye | Very easy to do. |
| 20:04.46 | tbye | Who would I submit a proposal to? |
| 20:05.06 | bigdog_ut | wps or dave |
| 20:05.19 | tbye | great! |
| 20:05.40 | tbye | is the website in transition right now? |
| 20:05.41 | bigdog_ut | and then you just need to bail out and let macnewbold give the disc |
| 20:05.53 | bigdog_ut | tbye, yes wps is hackin it |
| 20:06.05 | wps | yes :( |
| 20:06.06 | tbye | Sound like a comment of historical significance ;-) |
| 20:06.18 | wps | anyone want to upgrade MySQL on there? |
| 20:06.20 | tbye | the mac fall back. |
| 20:06.30 | bigdog_ut | ye |
| 20:06.38 | bigdog_ut | wps what is the problem with mysql? |
| 20:06.49 | wps | FC3 only came with version 3.2 |
| 20:06.56 | wps | the old server had a more recent version |
| 20:07.04 | wps | the dumps have changed a little, so I cannot import them |
| 20:07.09 | bigdog_ut | wps, really...man rc3 sucks |
| 20:07.09 | wps | so I have to edit them first |
| 20:07.20 | wps | so, I either edit them dumps or upgrade MySQL |
| 20:07.24 | bigdog_ut | what version did you have on the other one |
| 20:07.31 | wps | not sure |
| 20:07.36 | mindjuju | do you need somebody to download mysql? |
| 20:07.38 | wps | probably 4.1 |
| 20:07.42 | tbye | There's got to be some binary RPMs on mysql.com eh? |
| 20:07.54 | bigdog_ut | perhaps somewhere |
| 20:07.56 | wps | well, downloading it's not a problem... it's installing it |
| 20:08.06 | tbye | I can do it. |
| 20:08.41 | wps | who is tbye ? :) |
| 20:09.03 | tbye | I'm a good friend of Vlad and Mike at Linux Networx if you need someone to vouch. |
| 20:09.03 | bigdog_ut | http://rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/search.php?query=mysql&submit=Search+...&system=fedora+core+3&arch= |
| 20:09.17 | bigdog_ut | tbye, there you go |
| 20:09.20 | wps | that's good enough for me |
| 20:09.36 | wps | tbye, if you're good to go, I'll give you a username and password to log in |
| 20:09.37 | bigdog_ut | there are the 4.1 versions |
| 20:09.55 | tbye | sure... want to pm me or some other method? |
| 20:10.13 | wps | I am just betting on 4.1, because that is the version that MySQL recommends on their site as being the newest and stable |
| 20:10.25 | tbye | not a problem |
| 20:10.26 | wps | send an email to admin@uphpu.org and I'll reply back with it |
| 20:10.34 | tbye | perfect. |
| 20:12.15 | bigdog_ut | dataw0lf, i was looking for ya the other day |
| 20:12.57 | dataw0lf | ? |
| 20:13.18 | bigdog_ut | was looking to head over to #gentoo and have some fun |
| 20:13.37 | dataw0lf | oh, heh. |
| 20:14.07 | bigdog_ut | i waz bored |
| 20:14.42 | dataw0lf | inciting people's anger on the internet is the best cure for that. |
| 20:16.37 | bigdog_ut | most definite |
| 20:21.12 | dataw0lf | optikal: we doing something tonight ? |
| 20:21.19 | optikal | dataw0lf: im down.. |
| 20:21.31 | optikal | hadnt planned anything yet, but we can figure somethin out if we want |
| 20:21.41 | dataw0lf | yeah, maybe I'll bring over a fifth of gin. |
| 20:21.48 | optikal | hmm |
| 20:21.52 | optikal | gin n' tonic.. yummz |
| 20:22.01 | dataw0lf | with limes this time. |
| 20:22.05 | optikal | all i'd be lacking is a cigar and that'd make for some chillin |
| 20:22.10 | optikal | really? nice =) that sounds gr8 |
| 20:32.19 | macnewbold | wps: bigdog_ut is right... when you're ready to give up on FC3, I've still got a FreeBSD .iso for you :) |
| 20:32.40 | wps | k |
| 20:32.48 | wps | I will be doing that soon |
| 20:32.53 | wps | I just need to get this server up first |
| 20:33.13 | wps | than I plan on looking into Gentoo and FreeBSD |
| 20:35.03 | bigdog_ut | gentoo al the way |
| 20:35.19 | fungus | Gentoo is nice, but FreeBSD is nicer! |
| 20:35.20 | macnewbold | try FreeBSD first, and you'll see why you don't need to try gentoo :) |
| 20:35.46 | macnewbold | I have no doubt that gentoo or ubuntu could be the nicest linux distros, |
| 20:35.54 | macnewbold | but a FreeBSD beats a linux distro any day :) |
| 20:35.58 | synic | gentoo definately isn't :P |
| 20:36.23 | synic | hush you |
| 20:36.29 | optikal | make me. |
| 20:36.29 | fungus | eek distro wars again... take that to #utah |
| 20:36.37 | synic | you have no valid opinion, thou foul gentoo user |
| 20:36.40 | optikal | naah, not a distro war. =) |
| 20:36.56 | optikal | synic: you have no valid opinion, thou foul smelling punt |
| 20:36.57 | wps | it's a party! |
| 20:37.02 | optikal | wps: you got the idea! |
| 20:37.03 | wps | our very own distro-tek |
| 20:37.12 | synic | lol |
| 20:37.23 | synic | cute :P |
| 20:37.23 | wps | they're all the rage in Europe |
| 20:37.43 | wps | jbot, show us some dance moves! |
| 20:37.50 | synic | ~dance |
| 20:37.51 | jbot | ACTION becomes steve ballmer |
| 20:37.58 | synic | o_O |
| 20:38.11 | *** join/#uphpu tierra|w (~tierra@dsl093-225-126.slc1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 20:38.20 | wps | scary dance |
| 20:40.23 | fungus | http://www.ntk.net/media/developers.mpg |
| 20:40.54 | fungus | http://www.ntk.net/media/dancemonkeyboy.mpg |
| 21:05.19 | macnewbold | where'd you get those? |
| 21:05.35 | macnewbold | steve ballmer's a nut |
| 21:05.39 | macnewbold | completely wacko |
| 21:05.53 | fungus | http://www.ntk.net/ballmer/mirrors.html |
| 21:05.55 | fungus | agreed |
| 21:06.02 | macnewbold | right up there with Dell Shanze on TV |
| 21:11.20 | optikal | hehe |
| 21:24.27 | *** join/#uphpu optikal (~optikal@67-40-118-81.slkc.uswest.net) |
| 22:03.03 | *** join/#uphpu mindjuju (~mindjuju@63.226.104.67) |
| 23:04.35 | *** part/#uphpu tbye (~tbye@67.51.216.61) |
| 23:05.59 | *** join/#uphpu tbye (~tbye@67.51.216.61) |
| 23:06.05 | *** part/#uphpu tbye (~tbye@67.51.216.61) |
| 23:08.33 | *** join/#uphpu optikal (~optikal@67-40-118-81.slkc.uswest.net) |