| 00:00.18 | mindjuju | ~insult jbot |
| 00:01.12 | mindjuju | the images that conjures are quite shocking |
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| 00:13.28 | mindjuju | http://www.usbwifi.orcon.net.nz/ |
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| 14:27.36 | synic | !mplayer |
| 14:27.40 | synic | jbot, mplayer? |
| 14:27.41 | jbot | it has been said that mplayer is read ftp://ftp.nerim.net/debian-marillat/index.html to find the correct sources.list line for your version of Debian. |
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| 15:43.04 | jsmith | wps: So, I just got an email back from my friend. |
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| 17:00.43 | mindjuju | does anybody know any websites that you use for inspiration on graphic design or layout (besides www.lynda.com)? |
| 17:01.49 | optikal | uhm |
| 17:02.05 | jsmith | mindjuju: I just turn to my wife and say "Hey honey -- make me something killer" :-) |
| 17:02.19 | optikal | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:02.43 | mindjuju | for some reason having designer's block |
| 17:03.30 | usynic | I have a permanent case of that |
| 17:03.40 | fungus | I always have permanent designer's block. I just find a site that looks cool, and make a few changes to make it my own. |
| 17:04.30 | fungus | For business sites, I turn to my in-house designer. For personal... well they just suck. |
| 17:05.47 | fungus | thanks for the tip on lynda.com. I might steal a few of those. |
| 17:06.43 | mindjuju | lynda's stuff is really good and she has a couple of books out to where she speaks on color usage / harmonization |
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| 17:07.14 | fungus | whoa, now you are using words way over my head. :) |
| 17:07.26 | fungus | do you mean, looks pretty? |
| 17:08.01 | mindjuju | well toupe looks pretty but what colors look good with toupe? |
| 17:08.15 | mindjuju | her book talks about what colors to mix with what colors |
| 17:08.28 | mindjuju | oh, and for inspiration, i hope your were looking at this |
| 17:08.29 | mindjuju | http://www.lynda.com/resources/inspiration/ |
| 17:08.36 | mindjuju | because that's where her inspiration sites are |
| 17:08.40 | mindjuju | and some of them are awesome |
| 17:08.47 | mindjuju | some flash based, some not |
| 17:09.11 | usynic | uh... does that site work in firefox? |
| 17:09.31 | mindjuju | go go gadget firefox! |
| 17:09.33 | fungus | Yeah, I am looking there now. they are cool. I'll never understand design concepts, but I know what to steal, and what not to steal. |
| 17:09.37 | optikal | yheee |
| 17:09.58 | mindjuju | yup, site is workign in firefox |
| 17:10.23 | usynic | oh wait... the links are on the left.... |
| 17:10.26 | usynic | that's kinda goofy |
| 17:10.41 | bigdog_ut | mornin' all |
| 17:11.01 | mindjuju | morning, we're talking about graphic design inspiration |
| 17:11.13 | mindjuju | got any sites you use for inspiration bigdog? |
| 17:11.27 | usynic | it's all about http://www.csszengarden.com |
| 17:11.57 | bigdog_ut | nope...all my questions go to wps, i am not a graphics guy |
| 17:19.36 | dataw0lf | word, bigdog_ut |
| 17:20.00 | bigdog_ut | its all about the backend anyways |
| 17:20.14 | dataw0lf | true dat. |
| 17:20.20 | bigdog_ut | eye candy with no back = nada |
| 17:20.33 | dataw0lf | backend with no eye candy = cli! yay! |
| 17:21.16 | dataw0lf | but, I spent like 3 hours finally on the CSS on my site. Now it looks uber coolz. |
| 17:21.29 | bigdog_ut | ncie |
| 17:21.48 | usynic | he'll be changing it next week, though |
| 17:21.58 | bigdog_ut | most likely |
| 17:22.09 | dataw0lf | Yeah, I'm trying to learn GIMP, so probably. |
| 17:22.24 | mindjuju | you ought to check out that sitethat usynic mentioned on CSS |
| 17:22.24 | mindjuju | 02http://www.02csszengarden.co02m01 |
| 17:22.40 | usynic | mindjuju: it's spiffy, int it? |
| 17:22.47 | dataw0lf | um, I've known about csszengarden fope evar. |
| 17:22.57 | dataw0lf | if you notice, I link to it on my site. |
| 17:22.57 | mindjuju | way cool |
| 17:23.08 | mindjuju | especially that museum motiff |
| 17:23.14 | usynic | I've spent quite a bit of time just oggling the sites on there |
| 17:24.00 | dataw0lf | I like Neat and Tidy : http://csszengarden.com/?cssfile=/139/139.css&page=1 |
| 17:26.56 | optikal | yah |
| 17:26.58 | optikal | thats 'artistic' |
| 17:26.59 | optikal | heh |
| 17:31.45 | scott_ | anyone used Timer.php from Benchmark? |
| 17:32.33 | optikal | negative |
| 17:34.02 | dataw0lf | yes, what's the question? |
| 17:35.47 | mindjuju | 05scott_: 01anyone used Timer.php from Benchmark? |
| 17:36.13 | optikal | hehe |
| 17:40.31 | scott_ | I can't seem to get it to output more than one interval |
| 17:40.51 | scott_ | I am trying to find what part of a site is slowing it down |
| 17:41.16 | scott_ | so I guess I'll put a million setMarker()s everywhere to see (unless there's a better way?) |
| 17:41.17 | dataw0lf | ok, one sec, I'll write a tiny snippet up for you, and you can compare your code |
| 17:41.34 | scott_ | but even when I have more than one setMarker it only shows one interval |
| 17:44.53 | dataw0lf | dataw0lf.org/benchmark.phps |
| 17:45.21 | dataw0lf | heh, oops, there you go. |
| 17:45.27 | dataw0lf | forgot to put php tags around it. |
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| 18:04.45 | scott_ | thanks data, that works |
| 18:07.02 | dataw0lf | scott_: np. |
| 18:07.33 | scott_ | there isn't an easier way though to debug this in php? |
| 18:07.47 | scott_ | it's going to take forever to put these stupid markers in all over |
| 18:11.43 | dataw0lf | work your way to a specific scope. |
| 18:11.46 | dataw0lf | start big, then narrow down. |
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| 18:17.31 | optikal | hmm |
| 18:22.49 | synic|w | hmm. |
| 18:23.14 | mindjuju_ | jbot hmm |
| 18:23.15 | jbot | hmm stands for human markov model |
| 18:23.30 | mindjuju_ | curious |
| 18:23.30 | optikal | actually its hidden |
| 18:23.45 | optikal | unless there two seperate things? |
| 18:24.03 | macnewbold | jbot, no hmm is hidden markov model |
| 18:24.04 | jbot | okay, macnewbold |
| 18:24.06 | synic|w | there I go. |
| 18:24.17 | optikal | haha |
| 18:24.20 | optikal | smart little bugger =P |
| 18:24.48 | synic|w | jbot: hmm =~ s/hidden/human/ |
| 18:24.48 | jbot | OK, synic|w |
| 18:24.54 | synic|w | jbot: hmm =~ s/human/hidden |
| 18:24.56 | synic|w | jbot: hmm =~ s/human/hidden/ |
| 18:24.56 | jbot | synic|w: OK |
| 18:25.07 | macnewbold | scott_: any luck with your profiling yet? I'm curious to know what is causing performance issues for you (so I can avoid it) |
| 18:25.16 | macnewbold | also, what's you're URL (if it's public)? |
| 18:25.18 | macnewbold | ~hmm |
| 18:25.18 | jbot | hmm... hmm is hidden markov model |
| 18:27.07 | mindjuju_ | ~joke |
| 18:27.08 | jbot | joke 2 |
| 18:27.25 | optikal | haha |
| 18:27.28 | optikal | thats funneh |
| 18:27.49 | mindjuju_ | never know what to expect from jbot |
| 18:27.59 | optikal | ooh.. jbot = box of chocolates? oke |
| 18:28.56 | mindjuju_ | in the instructions for jbot it says that if you try to insult somebody in authority on the irc channel, it will backfire from fear and insult you |
| 18:28.56 | mindjuju_ | i wonder if it works |
| 18:29.23 | optikal | hmm |
| 18:29.35 | optikal | no idea.. insult away. =P |
| 18:29.44 | mindjuju_ | ~insult bigdog_ut |
| 18:29.51 | mindjuju_ | nope, it works |
| 18:30.00 | optikal | hmm i want a slurpee too. |
| 18:30.06 | optikal | minus the backwash |
| 18:30.21 | mindjuju_ | just thinking of getting one the other day, |
| 18:30.26 | mindjuju_ | live cherry slurpee |
| 18:30.42 | optikal | Banana... yummeh |
| 18:32.29 | mindjuju_ | ~ebonify "my kung fu is better than yours" |
| 18:32.30 | jbot | mindjuju_: okay |
| 18:32.38 | mindjuju_ | dag |
| 18:32.54 | mindjuju_ | ~ebonify my kung fu is better than yours |
| 18:32.55 | jbot | mindjuju_: okay |
| 18:33.17 | mindjuju_ | ~ebonify |
| 18:33.52 | mindjuju_ | ~factoid foo |
| 18:34.03 | fungus | ~jargon foo |
| 18:34.04 | jbot | hmm... jargon foo is /foo/ 1. interj. Term of disgust. 2. Used very generally as a sample name for absolutely anything, esp. programs and files (esp. scratch files). 3. First on the standard list of metasyntactic variables used in syntax examples. See also bar, baz, qux, quux, corge, grault, garply, waldo, fred, plugh, xyzzy, thud. foo is the canonical example of ... |
| 18:34.11 | scott_ | rock on! the site is now 85 times faster! |
| 18:34.27 | scott_ | the previous dude was using the database to store every hit |
| 18:34.42 | fungus | eek, why? |
| 18:35.14 | mindjuju_ | ~help |
| 18:35.35 | scott_ | I don't know, but commenting out include("stats/act_counter.php"); makes the site 85 times faster |
| 18:36.12 | fungus | IMHO, if you don't know why it was logging to a db, you probably don't need to. |
| 18:36.57 | scott_ | it was just to update the page counter |
| 18:37.13 | scott_ | he has a table of all the pages with date last viewed, created, page hits, etc |
| 18:37.37 | fungus | I don't think a counter is worth that kind of performance hit. |
| 18:38.04 | scott_ | yo tampoco |
| 18:38.20 | fungus | All that info should be logged in the apache log anyway. why do double the work. |
| 18:38.53 | mindjuju_ | ~babelfish tampoco |
| 18:38.54 | scott_ | yeah, and this site is dog slow also, with the counter that is |
| 18:39.00 | scott_ | each link takes 3-4 seconds to load up |
| 18:39.05 | scott_ | now it doesn't take any time |
| 18:39.23 | scott_ | well, 0.036 seconds maybe :) |
| 18:42.49 | scott_ | tampoco = neither |
| 18:43.16 | scott_ | I like how it sounds a lot more though :) |
| 18:43.22 | mindjuju_ | yeah, trying to learn more about jbot though |
| 18:43.51 | mindjuju_ | so a few minutes ago when i asked jbot for help it listed babelfish, i thought it might allow me to ask babelfish from here |
| 18:43.53 | mindjuju_ | didn't work |
| 18:43.55 | mindjuju_ | :( |
| 18:45.06 | fungus | ~translate tampoco |
| 18:45.24 | fungus | ~translate es en tampoco |
| 18:45.43 | mindjuju_ | that's cool! |
| 18:46.22 | scott_ | ~translate es en chido |
| 18:50.05 | fungus | ~translate fr en merde |
| 18:51.10 | fungus | ~translate fr en baise |
| 18:53.33 | mindjuju_ | must try to focus! it's a friday, i'm listening to techno and the other developer is listening to opera |
| 18:53.43 | mindjuju_ | brain starting to colapse from the strain! |
| 18:53.46 | optikal | hmm techno eh? |
| 18:53.52 | optikal | didnt know ppl still listened to techno =P |
| 18:53.59 | optikal | I know I dont.. |
| 18:54.30 | mindjuju_ | what's the difference? thought techno was the category and trance subcategory |
| 18:54.41 | mindjuju_ | with psy / goa under trance |
| 18:54.59 | optikal | mindjuju_: not exactly. |
| 18:55.15 | optikal | Trance started off as a subgenre of Techno |
| 18:55.21 | optikal | but ended up obliterating Techno |
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| 18:55.48 | mindjuju_ | still hard to focus with the opera stuff going in the background |
| 18:55.56 | optikal | haha |
| 18:56.03 | optikal | play some phantom of the opera - trance mix |
| 18:56.10 | optikal | its a killer mix |
| 18:57.04 | mindjuju_ | curious... have ya'll heard the techno remix of my heart will go on? talk about mind reeling! you have to roll at least a 10 on a 12 die or risk going insane |
| 18:57.17 | fungus | I like the Punk version better |
| 18:57.18 | mindjuju_ | avoid at all costs |
| 19:00.58 | fungus | http://myfungus.net/Punk_Covers-My_Heart_Will_Go_On.mp3 |
| 19:01.35 | optikal | mindjuju_: lol.. u pnp rpg nut |
| 19:01.56 | optikal | but no, i dont put myself through that kind of torture. |
| 19:05.06 | mindjuju_ | just finished playing star wars knights of the old republic, good game |
| 19:05.35 | mindjuju_ | hey, if i upload that song to your ftp, would you listen to it? |
| 19:05.59 | mindjuju_ | it'll take like a day to find, i actually downloaded it to torture this one guy i know, i'll have to find, but think i know where it is |
| 19:07.55 | mindjuju_ | thnx fungus, have it locked and loaded |
| 19:07.59 | mindjuju_ | let's see how it sounds |
| 19:08.28 | optikal | no, I wont listen to it |
| 19:08.49 | optikal | thats like saying 'dude.. if i stand right here, will you let me kick you in the nads'' |
| 19:10.50 | mindjuju_ | you know that song wasn't too bad |
| 19:11.06 | fungus | No, I think it is way cool. |
| 19:11.22 | mindjuju_ | i wonder what would happen if you had a metalica cover of that song? |
| 19:11.30 | mindjuju_ | probably similar |
| 19:13.01 | optikal | meh, im still not interested.. i dont like the song itself.. |
| 19:13.10 | optikal | Celine Dion.. NO thank you |
| 19:13.22 | optikal | Now like the Braveheart Mix I got is pretty tight |
| 19:13.44 | mindjuju_ | i think i have that one |
| 19:13.55 | optikal | it starts off with the bagpipes |
| 19:14.04 | optikal | Thats how u know which one it is |
| 19:14.09 | optikal | Ive got like 5 diff mix's of that theme |
| 19:14.25 | mindjuju_ | hmm... bagpipes doesn't ring a bell |
| 19:16.58 | mindjuju_ | bad to worse? from opera to bing crosby |
| 19:17.11 | mindjuju_ | not that i don't appreciate the old classics, but hard to program to |
| 19:17.26 | mindjuju_ | too cheerful |
| 19:17.27 | fungus | That is what headphones are for. |
| 19:17.35 | mindjuju_ | not allowed here |
| 19:17.41 | mindjuju_ | i'm in pain |
| 19:17.46 | fungus | I feel your pain. |
| 19:17.52 | optikal | yikes |
| 19:18.05 | optikal | i have my own office, so i can close hte door and crank up the tunes |
| 19:18.27 | mindjuju_ | nice, and if you get bored, you can always fire up the cameras |
| 19:18.28 | fungus | I am still in a cube, but I at least have my headphones. |
| 19:18.41 | optikal | =) |
| 19:18.54 | mindjuju_ | k, i'm not kidding, we've changed and now it is the chipmunks |
| 19:19.26 | mindjuju_ | singing "girls just want to have fun" |
| 19:20.25 | optikal | eeeeek |
| 19:20.55 | mindjuju_ | i'm going to look for a pin and during lunch push it through the speaker line |
| 19:21.01 | mindjuju_ | see if i can take them out |
| 19:24.27 | *** join/#uphpu wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 19:24.37 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 20:06.31 | macnewbold | scott_: regarding your db-based hit counter thing: Why was it so slow? Storing a row to the db and pulling a total out shouldn't take that long... |
| 20:06.37 | macnewbold | btw, what's the site? |
| 20:07.01 | macnewbold | if the php source for the hit counter thingy isn't secret, I'd be interested in seeing it |
| 20:27.22 | scott_ | alright, one sec |
| 20:28.56 | scott_ | http://jaderholm.com/tmp/counter.phps |
| 20:29.18 | scott_ | I don't know why it would take so long |
| 20:31.29 | wps | does anyone receive the uphpu-jobs-announce mail in a gmail acccount? |
| 20:31.50 | dataw0lf | yes. |
| 20:32.05 | tierra|w | ditto |
| 20:32.55 | macnewbold | ditto |
| 20:33.30 | macnewbold | okay, I found your problem, scott. |
| 20:33.41 | macnewbold | his query is this: |
| 20:33.48 | macnewbold | $sql = "select * from counter where Page='$Page'"; |
| 20:33.53 | macnewbold | $result = mysql_query($sql) or die ("unable to process query1"); |
| 20:33.53 | macnewbold | $recordcount = mysql_num_rows($result); |
| 20:34.33 | macnewbold | doh, nevermind... I though he was doing it with 1 row per entry, and pulling * instead of count(*) |
| 20:34.40 | wps | thanks, gmail offerers |
| 20:36.05 | wps | what does "Pay DOE" mean? |
| 20:36.13 | dataw0lf | determined on experience |
| 20:36.16 | wps | ah |
| 20:36.22 | mindjuju_ | depends on experience |
| 20:36.22 | dataw0lf | or dependent doh |
| 20:37.51 | bigdog_ut | ~insult mindjuju_ |
| 20:38.02 | mindjuju_ | wha! |
| 20:38.08 | bigdog_ut | or a utah original |
| 20:38.11 | mindjuju_ | ~insult bigdog_ut |
| 20:38.20 | bigdog_ut | ~insult mindjuju_ |
| 20:38.25 | bigdog_ut | nice |
| 20:38.33 | bigdog_ut | yeah |
| 20:38.35 | mindjuju_ | ~insult bigdog_ut |
| 20:38.51 | mindjuju_ | rat retch! |
| 20:39.01 | fungus | ~retch |
| 20:39.05 | fungus | ~wretch |
| 20:39.47 | mindjuju_ | ~nickometer bigdog_ut |
| 20:39.48 | jbot | 'bigdog_ut' is 14.000% lame, mindjuju_ |
| 20:39.51 | dataw0lf | ~insult I_am |
| 20:39.52 | mindjuju_ | yeah! |
| 20:40.02 | dataw0lf | ~insult jbot |
| 20:40.04 | fungus | jbot, retch is an involuntary spasm of ineffectual vomiting |
| 20:40.06 | jbot | fungus: okay |
| 20:40.33 | mindjuju_ | jbot, bigdog_ut is a nerd |
| 20:40.34 | jbot | ...but bigdog_ut is already something else... |
| 20:40.43 | fungus | ~bigdog_ut |
| 20:40.44 | jbot | [bigdog_ut] a big dog who turns around three times before falling asleep. in a van down by the river, or wants to be "Mullet-Man" -> professional up front, but one hell of a party in the back. an argentino bad boy |
| 20:41.04 | dataw0lf | heh |
| 20:41.07 | bigdog_ut | ~nickometer mindjuju_ |
| 20:41.07 | jbot | 'mindjuju_' is 0.000% lame, bigdog_ut |
| 20:41.07 | mindjuju_ | hilarious |
| 20:41.16 | mindjuju_ | yeah! that's right 100% cool |
| 20:41.23 | zardinuk | so bigdog_ut does the sleepy/poopy dance also |
| 20:41.39 | bigdog_ut | unfortunatly |
| 20:42.06 | mindjuju_ | k, got to try and focus for another 3 hours and 18 minutes |
| 20:42.14 | bigdog_ut | lol |
| 20:42.24 | bigdog_ut | ~abuse mindjuju_ |
| 20:42.26 | jbot | ACTION smacks mindjuju_ across the face. "Take that, Bitch!" |
| 20:42.33 | bigdog_ut | yeah |
| 20:42.36 | mindjuju_ | wha! |
| 20:42.48 | mindjuju_ | ~abuse bigdog_ut |
| 20:42.50 | jbot | ACTION smacks bigdog_ut across the face. "Take that, Bitch!" |
| 20:42.57 | dataw0lf | Washington Mutual is the worst bank in the world, btw. |
| 20:43.15 | bigdog_ut | mutual? |
| 20:43.38 | mindjuju_ | yeah, we switched banks because they nickel and dime you |
| 20:43.45 | mindjuju_ | even if you don't bounce checks |
| 20:43.52 | bigdog_ut | ~factoid mindjuju_ |
| 20:44.03 | wps | well, the first thing that they have going against them is that they are a bank |
| 20:44.08 | wps | try a Credit Union |
| 20:44.10 | scott_ | is it wrong to just put <? instead of <?php ? what does <?= do? |
| 20:44.13 | mindjuju_ | 100% cool with awesome kung fu |
| 20:44.24 | mindjuju_ | instant echo |
| 20:44.42 | mindjuju_ | <?=$variable?> prints out the variable on the page |
| 20:44.51 | bigdog_ut | ~ebonify mindjuju_ is 100% lame with awesome kungfu grip |
| 20:44.53 | jbot | bigdog_ut: okay |
| 20:45.08 | mindjuju_ | yeah, ebonify don't work |
| 20:45.09 | mindjuju_ | sadly |
| 20:45.17 | bigdog_ut | ~ebonify mindjuju_ |
| 20:45.18 | jbot | methinks ebonify mindjuju_ is 100% lame with awesome kungfu grip |
| 20:45.18 | fungus | <?=$var?> is very handy for templates. |
| 20:45.44 | mindjuju_ | abuse jbot |
| 20:45.51 | mindjuju_ | ~abuse jbot |
| 20:45.53 | jbot | ACTION smacks jbot across the face. "Take that, Bitch!" |
| 20:46.21 | mindjuju_ | bigdog_ut = nerf herder , 'nuff said |
| 20:46.23 | zardinuk | <? ... ?> is not xml compliant though |
| 20:46.28 | bigdog_ut | lol |
| 20:46.33 | zardinuk | so dont use that unless you're lazy and stuff |
| 20:46.46 | bigdog_ut | ~ebonify mindjuju_ |
| 20:46.47 | jbot | i guess ebonify mindjuju_ is 100% lame with awesome kungfu grip |
| 20:47.08 | macnewbold | zardinuk: xml compliant, xml shmompliant.... |
| 20:47.24 | mindjuju_ | i thought php was parsed before sml ran |
| 20:47.25 | macnewbold | <? ?> and <?= ?> are much easier to read.... |
| 20:47.29 | mindjuju_ | oops, xml |
| 20:47.32 | macnewbold | ~praise readable code |
| 20:47.34 | jbot | All hail readable code! |
| 20:47.41 | bigdog_ut | ebonify bigdog_ut |
| 20:48.07 | zardinuk | yeah, it probably means nothing to you, but if you want to run your PHP doc thorugh an XSL stylesheet or something you need to be able to identify PHP tags |
| 20:48.27 | zardinuk | asp is not xml compliant either, so there is a trend, heh |
| 20:48.49 | macnewbold | scott_: the only other thing I noticed about that counter is that it doesn't use a persistent DB connection |
| 20:49.01 | macnewbold | if Page isn't an index/key in that table, that would make it slow |
| 20:49.01 | *** join/#uphpu mindjuju (~mindjuju@63.226.104.67) |
| 20:49.04 | fungus | Usually you would run your script through PHP first, then the XML stuff?? |
| 20:49.52 | fungus | I can't think of a reason to use an xml parser on PHP code. |
| 20:49.53 | macnewbold | because it takes query strings into account, it would very likely get a _lot_ of rows in the table if your stuff uses GET strings much... |
| 20:50.01 | zardinuk | not necessarily, I did a templating package that you had to "make" and it replaced tags like <box> with their <div> counterparts |
| 20:50.18 | macnewbold | wouldn't you use an XML/XSLT thing on the _output_ of the php script, rather than on the script itself? |
| 20:50.41 | mindjuju | ~help |
| 20:50.42 | zardinuk | you could do either, might as well make the most of the infernal XML |
| 20:50.47 | macnewbold | so that html/xml printed out by the code would get processed too? |
| 20:51.00 | macnewbold | ~fungus++ |
| 20:51.06 | macnewbold | for backing me up :) |
| 20:51.41 | zardinuk | macnewbold: my template solution was site-wide and I had different languages going on |
| 20:52.00 | mindjuju | ~freshmeat |
| 20:52.01 | jbot | [freshmeat] at http://www.freshmeat.net |
| 20:52.07 | zardinuk | so I just did a pre-processed template |
| 20:52.12 | macnewbold | even more reason to do it on the _output_ rather than the scripts of many languages? |
| 20:52.47 | zardinuk | well it also worked on raw HTML files, I was actually looking at doing a php -> mod_xsl solution but that wasn't gonna work |
| 20:53.12 | mindjuju | ~lobotomy |
| 20:53.14 | jbot | I feel different somehow. |
| 20:53.25 | mindjuju | curious, wonder what that did |
| 20:53.42 | mindjuju | ~lobotomy bigdog_ut |
| 20:53.44 | jbot | ACTION pulls out a rusty saw to perform a lobotomy on bigdog_ut |
| 20:53.51 | mindjuju | yeah~ |
| 20:54.11 | bigdog_ut | lol |
| 20:55.51 | bigdog_ut | zardinuk, what are you trying to do? |
| 20:56.51 | zardinuk | right now? trying to last another... 3 hours and 4 minutes like everyone else, heh |
| 20:57.05 | mindjuju | 3 hours and 3 minutes over here |
| 20:58.05 | bigdog_ut | zardinuk, with php, xml, and xsl(t0 |
| 20:58.43 | zardinuk | nothin, I was just sharing my experience with xml/xsl/php interoperability |
| 20:59.08 | zardinuk | macnewbold: besides that, I could put PHP code into my xsl templates |
| 21:00.02 | zardinuk | although at this point I would not recommend XSL to my worst enemies |
| 21:00.09 | fungus | Ok, zardinuk has come up with a possible reason to use long php tags. albeit quite a rare and contrived reason. |
| 21:00.18 | bigdog_ut | dude xsl rocks |
| 21:00.18 | optikal | a lot of u guys in here are ladies men.. anyone know a good spa to get a 'day spa package' for a lady? |
| 21:00.35 | mindjuju | aveda |
| 21:00.44 | mindjuju | paid for 3 hour treatment for my wife |
| 21:00.48 | mindjuju | like $160 |
| 21:00.53 | mindjuju | she came out a different person |
| 21:00.56 | mindjuju | well worth the money |
| 21:01.00 | optikal | hmm nice. thats the exact price range im looking for too |
| 21:01.04 | fungus | oooh, I want one. |
| 21:01.15 | scott_ | reason to not use <? : my stupid editor yells at me. |
| 21:02.03 | fungus | I prefer to fix the editor to make my life easy, instead of making my life hard to use my editor. |
| 21:02.17 | *** join/#uphpu zardinuk (~jeff@vulcan.americom.com) |
| 21:02.25 | zardinuk | doh |
| 21:02.53 | bigdog_ut | i love using xsl and php..i use it for alot of stuff with one site |
| 21:02.53 | zardinuk | I was gonna say at this point I wouldn't recommend XSL to my worst enemies |
| 21:02.55 | optikal | mindjuju: much thanks =) |
| 21:02.59 | scott_ | fungus, do you use <br>? |
| 21:03.19 | mindjuju | no worries, here is what i got her |
| 21:03.20 | mindjuju | http://www.remedez.com/index.php?uid=22346&page=3459 |
| 21:03.26 | mindjuju | The Soothing Escape |
| 21:03.31 | mindjuju | sorry, was 4 hours |
| 21:03.36 | fungus | nope, I often use a macro to create <br /> |
| 21:03.49 | optikal | mindjuju: nice |
| 21:04.06 | mindjuju | yeah, this one is in Orem, but i bet there are some in slc |
| 21:04.16 | bigdog_ut | one in layton |
| 21:04.30 | scott_ | bigdog_ut, what is so cool about xsl? |
| 21:04.47 | bigdog_ut | it is a great way to transform to other formats |
| 21:04.49 | scott_ | i.e. why should I learn it, what will I be able to do with it? |
| 21:05.15 | bigdog_ut | alot of apps use xml for data tranfers |
| 21:05.31 | bigdog_ut | so i use xsl to transform one dataset to another set |
| 21:06.08 | bigdog_ut | also you can use it to go to other formats like html,xhtml, pdf,rtf,txt |
| 21:06.28 | bigdog_ut | you could even go to php or anything really |
| 21:06.44 | zardinuk | you make it sound so easy bigdog, lol |
| 21:07.02 | bigdog_ut | no dont get pissed optikal and dataw0lf |
| 21:07.14 | zardinuk | the truth is its a huge pain in the ass |
| 21:07.14 | scott_ | here we have tons of forms in quark or ms publisher and they export them to pdf and then put them on the site. so you'd write those docs in xml, and then export them to html or pdf? |
| 21:07.14 | optikal | ruhroh.. |
| 21:07.21 | bigdog_ut | we use xsl to create java code on the fly |
| 21:07.26 | zardinuk | scott_: hell no, heeeeelll no |
| 21:07.38 | optikal | =P |
| 21:08.01 | bigdog_ut | scott_, if you want...i wouldnt |
| 21:08.12 | bigdog_ut | ms xml sucks |
| 21:08.12 | zardinuk | scott_: for xsl to ever be of any value to someone like a publisher, you wouldn't even want to know its there |
| 21:08.18 | bigdog_ut | i would look at openoffice first |
| 21:08.47 | zardinuk | xsl would be like a way to write an importer for quark to illustrator |
| 21:08.50 | bigdog_ut | or adobe products |
| 21:09.12 | scott_ | alright |
| 21:11.37 | zardinuk | scott_: you use quark? |
| 21:11.42 | bigdog_ut | scott_, now you can write your docs in xml and use tools to create the various formats using xsl(t) |
| 21:12.12 | bigdog_ut | for example you can write stuff in docbook and do it |
| 21:12.20 | bigdog_ut | there are tons of tools out there for docbook |
| 21:12.29 | bigdog_ut | just check out tldp.org |
| 21:13.02 | scott_ | zardinuk, the people here do, I don't. |
| 21:14.35 | zardinuk | bigdog_ut: thats how that ebay guy wrote his book |
| 21:14.39 | scott_ | there's some adobe product that does the same thing, indesign maybe, but apparently it won't open this version of quark files |
| 21:15.06 | zardinuk | I went and looked at docbook wysiwyg tools and couldn't find anything mature, the thought of writing an entire book in xml disturbs me though |
| 21:15.33 | zardinuk | scott_: do they build order forms with it? |
| 21:15.43 | zardinuk | I've been lookin for the best app to build order forms with |
| 21:16.05 | scott_ | build? as in grab stuff from a database, or do it dynamically? |
| 21:16.13 | scott_ | they design forms all the time for everything |
| 21:16.43 | zardinuk | well, both would be nice, right now I run sed over a postscript file to do things dynamically (ugh) |
| 21:18.41 | bigdog_ut | zardinuk, check out xmlspy and openoffice |
| 21:19.11 | bigdog_ut | sed rocks |
| 21:19.14 | zardinuk | I found xmlspy to be the best thing around |
| 21:19.29 | zardinuk | does openoffice have a docbook wysiwyg? |
| 21:20.01 | bigdog_ut | i think so...i remember reading about it somewhere |
| 21:20.57 | bigdog_ut | http://www.zzoss.com/projects/oowdbk/ |
| 21:21.50 | bigdog_ut | http://wiki.docbook.org/topic/OpenOffice |
| 21:22.25 | bigdog_ut | though xml spy is the best |
| 21:22.53 | bigdog_ut | oxygen xml editor might work too |
| 21:26.01 | scott_ | how many people typically go to the meetings? |
| 21:26.14 | bigdog_ut | 10-20 |
| 21:28.42 | macnewbold | sometimes 30+ |
| 21:28.53 | bigdog_ut | yeah if macnewbold is there |
| 21:28.58 | bigdog_ut | ~karma bigdog_ut |
| 21:28.58 | jbot | bigdog_ut has karma of 5 |
| 21:28.58 | macnewbold | hehe |
| 21:29.04 | macnewbold | yeah, I count as 10 people |
| 21:29.15 | bigdog_ut | i am like 6.78 people |
| 21:29.39 | macnewbold | depends on the meeting, too |
| 21:29.51 | macnewbold | topics make a (sometimes big) difference |
| 21:30.10 | macnewbold | and other nearby events (like holidays) can knock attendance down a notch too |
| 21:30.26 | macnewbold | nov. and dec. had smaller attendance, from what I understand, due to that |
| 21:31.42 | scott_ | wps, the breakfast article conviently doesn't state the date or time |
| 21:37.29 | optikal | Anyone know of a better open source shopping cart than X-Cart? |
| 21:38.24 | mindjuju | i haven't really looked into the prog, but zen cart had good marks |
| 21:38.33 | mindjuju | on the site i downloaded t from |
| 21:38.45 | optikal | yikes. |
| 21:38.51 | optikal | Feature List for Zen Cart: |
| 21:38.51 | optikal | http://www.zen-cart.com/modules/freecontent/index.php?id=1 |
| 21:39.10 | optikal | X-Cart Feature List: |
| 21:39.10 | optikal | http://www.x-cart.com/xcart_features.html |
| 21:39.38 | mindjuju | doesn't x cart cost though? |
| 21:39.41 | optikal | yep |
| 21:40.15 | optikal | Its not directly open source.. but you do have full rights to the source upon purchasing |
| 21:40.55 | mindjuju | bummer! haven't gotten to that part of the site yet, so that's why i haven't looked at it too closely |
| 21:41.16 | optikal | yah |
| 21:41.26 | optikal | X-Cart is only $189 for a single store |
| 21:41.32 | optikal | or just under $500 for unlimited stores |
| 21:41.42 | mindjuju | what is cost for zen, not seeing a price |
| 21:42.35 | optikal | "Zen Cartâ„¢ truly is the art of e-commerce; a free, user-friendly, open source shopping cart system." |
| 21:42.39 | optikal | The first sentence on the main page. |
| 21:43.34 | mindjuju | oh wait, your saying that x cart is what costs, zen is free, right? or are you saying that zen costs? |
| 21:43.48 | optikal | You have it correct. |
| 21:44.11 | optikal | X-Cart = $189 for 1 store, under $500 for uinlimited (which we'll be running 5 or more stores, or 5 or more different carts) |
| 21:44.16 | optikal | Zen Cart is free. |
| 21:52.24 | mindjuju | yeah, i think i'll be hitting that portion of the site on saturday |
| 21:52.37 | mindjuju | i'll tell ya how it goes if you don't use it by then |
| 21:52.58 | optikal | eh? |
| 21:53.01 | optikal | what portion of what site |
| 21:53.49 | mindjuju | oh, sorry, i'm working on an eCom site from the ground up in PHP and need to have an ordering section where they mark how much of what they want and tally the total |
| 21:54.00 | mindjuju | i've worked on the GUI, database, file management, etc |
| 21:54.06 | mindjuju | getting ready to start the ordering system |
| 21:54.14 | mindjuju | and connect everything together |
| 21:55.32 | optikal | aaah ok |
| 21:59.57 | optikal | http://www.oscommerce.com/ Seems to be the best Open Source free shopping cart i can find |
| 22:00.00 | optikal | and its quite awesome |
| 22:00.14 | optikal | does it beat X-cart, doesnt look like it.. but it is free for those in which whom money is a concern |
| 22:01.18 | zardinuk | oscommerce is way nice, I've used it |
| 22:01.27 | zardinuk | it is the phpbb of shopping carts |
| 22:01.37 | optikal | i hate phpbb.. |
| 22:01.43 | optikal | lol |
| 22:01.58 | optikal | but yah, it does seem really nice |
| 22:02.04 | bigdog_ut | phpbb sucks hard |
| 22:02.13 | optikal | bigdog_ut: woohoo, someone thats on my side for once |
| 22:02.19 | optikal | everyones pro phpbb.. not me. |
| 22:02.29 | dataw0lf | neither am I, have you ever seen the damn code? |
| 22:02.44 | bigdog_ut | i hacked on phpbb for a about a year and it sucked |
| 22:02.46 | optikal | yes |
| 22:02.50 | optikal | thats why i hate it |
| 22:02.56 | zardinuk | whats the alternative? |
| 22:03.24 | dataw0lf | of all the forums out there, vBulletin is the best. |
| 22:03.32 | optikal | I like SMF |
| 22:03.38 | optikal | I use it on two different forums that I mange |
| 22:03.41 | optikal | s/mange/manage |
| 22:04.09 | bigdog_ut | vbulletin is okay too |
| 22:04.12 | optikal | I don't have a complaint one about SMF.. except for lack of themes (like 40 out there, but its new so there still comin out with em) |
| 22:04.15 | bigdog_ut | i hacked that after phpbb |
| 22:04.16 | optikal | I havent used vBulletin |
| 22:04.34 | bigdog_ut | dont you have to purchase vbulletin |
| 22:04.40 | dataw0lf | yeah. |
| 22:04.56 | bigdog_ut | i remember we had a license for it |
| 22:05.12 | optikal | http://ufba.org/forum/ received 409 new topics, 4702 new posts and 131855 hits last month.. |
| 22:05.50 | optikal | www.ugri.org/forum Received 80 new topics, 1934 new posts and 56663 hits last month |
| 22:05.53 | optikal | both use MSF |
| 22:05.55 | optikal | errm SMF |
| 22:06.09 | optikal | when they release a new version, its SO eays to update |
| 22:06.19 | optikal | change some permissions on some files/folders |
| 22:06.21 | optikal | run a php script |
| 22:06.23 | optikal | it does all |
| 22:06.25 | bigdog_ut | good design is a benefit |
| 22:06.27 | optikal | change permissions back so your secure |
| 22:06.37 | optikal | I really like the administration side of SMF as well |
| 22:07.08 | dataw0lf | I've used SMF as an administrator, I gotta say vBulletin beats em out. |
| 22:07.14 | optikal | yeh? hmm |
| 22:07.20 | optikal | Ive never checked out vBulletin as an Admin.. so |
| 22:08.38 | optikal | I definately wont argue with you there.. I'd rather check it out and form my own opinion, which I shall sometime soon |
| 22:09.39 | optikal | thats one active forum.. |
| 22:09.40 | optikal | Currently Active Users: 440 (97 members and 343 guests) |
| 22:15.30 | bigdog_ut | dataw0lf, you done anything much with pygtk? |
| 22:22.15 | zardinuk | thank god for sour patch kids, my fuel for a boring friday afternoon |
| 22:22.38 | optikal | hehe |
| 22:28.46 | dataw0lf | bigdog_ut: yeah, a bit. |
| 22:30.38 | *** join/#uphpu xilch (~xilch@66.239.17.228.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 22:37.22 | mindjuju | the ssl encryption standard, 40 bit and 128 bit |
| 22:37.26 | mindjuju | what is the difference? |
| 22:37.33 | mindjuju | besides, one is more encrypted than the other |
| 22:37.40 | macnewbold | that's it... |
| 22:37.50 | macnewbold | 40bit is wimpy, 128bit is standard |
| 22:38.03 | macnewbold | some browsers warn about "weak encryption" when you use 40 bit |
| 22:38.05 | mindjuju | then why sell 40? |
| 22:38.21 | mindjuju | and why $650 difference? |
| 22:38.25 | macnewbold | cheaper? I dunno. They're pretty useless IMHO. |
| 22:38.30 | macnewbold | $650!?! where? |
| 22:38.34 | zardinuk | so we can spy on inferior countries |
| 22:38.34 | macnewbold | is this for an SSL cert? |
| 22:38.44 | mindjuju | yup ssl cert |
| 22:38.47 | mindjuju | verisign |
| 22:39.03 | macnewbold | eww, gross. Don't use verisign for ssl, or much else for that matter. |
| 22:39.20 | macnewbold | I'd go with InstantSSL if I were you. $150 for a 128-bit 3-year cert. |
| 22:39.31 | macnewbold | or $50 for 1 year |
| 22:39.45 | macnewbold | and they're quick too... 2hrs to 2 day turnaround |
| 22:40.51 | macnewbold | recognized by every browser that recognizes verisign, too |
| 22:41.13 | macnewbold | it does install a "cert chain" though, so if you have install probs, let me know... it's easy |
| 22:41.52 | macnewbold | Verisign is just trying to rip people off because they're a recognized "name brand"... but it's no better than any other. |
| 22:42.11 | mindjuju | seems like when I set something up with them years ago, the price was like $100 |
| 22:42.16 | macnewbold | by pricing it really high, they can trick some people with a "perceived sense of increased value" |
| 22:42.20 | mindjuju | that's why I was so shocked to see it increase so much |
| 22:42.31 | macnewbold | yeah, they're smoking some serious crack these days. |
| 22:42.43 | zardinuk | its not just increased value, its a matter of trust I think |
| 22:42.56 | macnewbold | Their credit card processing product, PayFlow/PayFlowPro are a rip off too. something like $60/month min. |
| 22:43.03 | zardinuk | cause for a bigger company like paypal who take security seriously an expensive certificate is no problem |
| 22:43.16 | macnewbold | your browser trusts a verisign cert just like it trusts a cheap cert. |
| 22:43.36 | zardinuk | so if you go to auctionpaymentsnstuff.com to do your paypal stuff and they have a cheap cert, you gotta wonder what the rest of their junk looks like |
| 22:43.51 | macnewbold | so unless you really want to pay extra to get a VeriSign "I'm secure" button on your web site instead of a different one, or none at all, it's almost worthless |
| 22:44.21 | macnewbold | if you're doing paypal, the site you're on doesn't need a cert at all... they're not taking your CC info, paypal is. |
| 22:44.50 | mindjuju | thnx for the heads up on the instant ssl, i'm going to recommend this one |
| 22:45.05 | zardinuk | i meant as a paypal clone |
| 22:45.46 | zardinuk | basically any site that wants your credit card number shouldn't be so concerned with a $1000 cert |
| 22:46.06 | zardinuk | means they probably wouldn't dish out for a security audit either |
| 22:48.15 | bigdog_ut | metallica - ...and justice for all 9m46s 193.503 kbit/s 44100 Hz |
| 22:48.31 | mindjuju | that was a good album / song |
| 22:48.37 | mindjuju | ah, the junior high days |
| 22:48.54 | optikal | hehe |
| 22:49.10 | bigdog_ut | man it rocks |
| 22:49.33 | *** join/#uphpu bigdog_ut (~bigdog_ut@166.70.34.182) |
| 22:49.33 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o bigdog_ut] by ChanServ |
| 22:49.36 | mindjuju | had black jean jacket with bleach holes and sheepdog style hair |
| 22:49.45 | mindjuju | down to my chin all around, good for sleeping in class |
| 22:50.15 | bigdog_ut | yeah |
| 22:52.22 | mindjuju | anybody got complaints on authorize.net? |
| 22:52.39 | mindjuju | worked with those guys years ago thorugh a reseller, doesn't seem like we had problems |
| 22:52.47 | optikal | never used em |
| 22:53.01 | mindjuju | who do you use for online credit card processing? |
| 22:53.41 | optikal | Im about to work out that detail on Monday actually |
| 22:53.57 | mindjuju | i'll keep ya posted on what I find |
| 22:54.00 | optikal | Our shopping cart is currently hosted by bCentral |
| 22:54.07 | synic|w | mindjuju: I've only used their API... never actually had an account. They weren't real great with customer support, but everyone but echo weren't real great with customer support. |
| 22:58.41 | macnewbold | mindjuju: I've used auth.net, and I have a sister-in-law who works there. |
| 22:58.51 | macnewbold | they're reputable, and their system works well, in my experience |
| 22:59.00 | macnewbold | their API is pretty easy too |
| 22:59.08 | mindjuju | i thought they changed and allowed people to connect with them, but seems like i still have to go through a reseller |
| 22:59.19 | mindjuju | yeah, i remember it being really easy to send in transactions |
| 22:59.27 | mindjuju | was looking at their developer pdf |
| 22:59.44 | mindjuju | so, now hunting for a reseller preferably local and that has good prices |
| 23:00.05 | macnewbold | I did it direct, but that was maybe cause I knew her. She told their Inside Sales team to hook me up. |
| 23:00.13 | macnewbold | we got it for $20/month I think. |
| 23:01.03 | mindjuju | nice, cause i think it's going to be way more |
| 23:01.36 | mindjuju | well, i take that back, around the same |
| 23:01.55 | macnewbold | some merchant accts have a payment gateway built in for free, one of my clients had one that did |
| 23:02.02 | macnewbold | so we didn't even need auth.net for her site |
| 23:02.13 | mindjuju | wow, where did she host? |
| 23:03.14 | macnewbold | it was with her cc merchant acct. something like linkpoint[e] central or something |
| 23:03.20 | macnewbold | I can dig it up if you need it |
| 23:03.34 | macnewbold | don't know if any normal banks offer it though. |
| 23:03.50 | mindjuju | nah, i'll keep going through these resellers |
| 23:03.56 | mindjuju | thnx though |
| 23:06.48 | optikal | http://wvgazette.com/section/News/2005020358 |
| 23:08.16 | mindjuju | nice |
| 23:17.12 | *** join/#uphpu wps (~wps@208.186.134.102) |
| 23:17.22 | *** mode/#uphpu [+o wps] by ChanServ |
| 23:23.32 | wps | thanks, scott_, time has been added |
| 23:24.30 | macnewbold | hey wade... when you edit an article, does it reset the "views" counter? |
| 23:24.43 | macnewbold | I thought that article had been viewed 20+ times, now it's 2 |
| 23:24.55 | wps | no, but something is jacked with the site/database right now, so I can't edit anything |
| 23:25.00 | wps | so to edit, I have to purge and recreate |
| 23:25.13 | wps | which is totally retarded but all I can do until we get the new server up |
| 23:25.26 | wps | I can't fix the problem because I do not have access to the old server anymore |
| 23:27.18 | macnewbold | eww |
| 23:27.44 | wps | yeah, and I even have customers on there |
| 23:27.59 | wps | so I have just been praying all week that nothing goes wrong or that they don't need anything |
| 23:53.34 | optikal | hey mac |
| 23:53.39 | optikal | whats the link to that google dns conversation? |