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| 00:08.49 | *** topic/#uclibc is discussion of uClibc, Busybox and Buildroot | uClibc 0.9.33 was released 1 Feb 2012 | busybox 1.19.3 was released 29 October 2011 | Buildroot 2011.11 ws released 30 November 2011 | For general setup issues try #oe, #elinux or #edev |
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| 09:44.22 | mazert | plop |
| 09:45.00 | mazert | i need help to turn on the httpd on my busybox system |
| 09:45.12 | mazert | (i'm french, so my english is not perfect) |
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| 13:39.07 | CIA-62 | 03jacmet 07master * re1231afc0190 10buildroot/package/efl/libevas/Config.in: libevas: software buffer backend doesn't need X11 |
| 13:39.08 | CIA-62 | 03jacmet 07master * r6d27a63e4508 10buildroot/package/efl/libevas/Config.in: libevas: SDL OpenGL backend needs modular X.org (for mesa) |
| 13:39.09 | CIA-62 | 03jacmet 07master * r9a9fdf92893c 10buildroot/package/sdl/ (Config.in sdl.mk): sdl: fix X11 dependencies |
| 13:39.11 | CIA-62 | 03jacmet 07master * r38071138ee1c 10buildroot/package/efl/libevas/Config.in: libevas: SDL GL backend doesn't need glproto |
| 13:39.14 | CIA-62 | 03jacmet 07master * r3a9b75fe0429 10buildroot/package/efl/libevas/ (Config.in libevas.mk): libevas: fix SDL GL backend build |
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| 15:57.16 | khem | blindvt: around ? |
| 15:57.54 | khem | blindvt: as I have promised earlier, I will take care of merging future branch but it needs to go in parts |
| 15:58.05 | khem | blindvt: dont merge it in haste |
| 15:58.16 | khem | it has regressions |
| 15:58.32 | khem | I dont want to spend nights to figure them out again |
| 15:58.39 | khem | like I had to do with prelink stuff |
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| 16:00.12 | *** topic/#uclibc is discussion of uClibc, Busybox and Buildroot | uClibc 0.9.33 was released 1 Feb 2012 | busybox 1.19.3 was released 29 October 2011 | Buildroot 2011.11 ws released 30 November 2011 | For general setup issues try #oe, #elinux or #edev |
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| 18:41.09 | Kaloz | hey |
| 18:41.51 | Kaloz | 0.9.33 fails to build for mips for us with: |
| 18:41.54 | Kaloz | libc/sysdeps/linux/common/getegid.c: In function 'getegid': |
| 18:41.55 | Kaloz | libc/sysdeps/linux/common/getegid.c:19:1: error: expected expression before '=' token |
| 18:42.02 | Kaloz | both on mips32 and mips64 |
| 18:42.21 | landley | Kaloz: I haven't tested mips yet with the new release. |
| 18:42.40 | landley | I was hoping to get to that this weekend... |
| 18:43.07 | landley | Best thing to do is probably email the uClibc list, with your .config attached. |
| 18:43.21 | landley | Presumably it worked for them, but they weren't trying your specific configuration... |
| 18:45.45 | Kaloz | landley: I'll try to figure out the issue, just it's faster to ask if it's known or not :) |
| 18:46.06 | landley | First I've heard of it. Lemme know what you find, as I said I hope to test this this weekend... |
| 19:32.27 | Kaloz | landley: so far it seems I have to blame http://git.buildroot.org/uClibc/commit/?id=83c1854b97d79e2b67065b1a2651b0d11d8a8f6b |
| 19:33.35 | landley | Kaloz: I can see that potentially doing damage, yeah. |
| 19:34.06 | landley | I'm guessing blindvt_ is asleep... |
| 19:34.39 | landley | ibot: seen blindvt_ |
| 19:34.42 | ibot | blindvt_ is currently on #oe (2h 51m 8s) #uclibc (2h 51m 8s), last said: 'hi'. |
| 19:35.18 | landley | ibot: Mary had a little lamb, some white wine, and a salad. |
| 19:35.56 | landley | ibot: We've replaced the dilithium they normally use with Folger's Crystals. |
| 19:36.08 | landley | enjoys feeding bad data into robots. |
| 19:36.24 | landley | chaff for skynet! |
| 19:38.25 | Kaloz | landley: with that rreverted, now it fails on time.c wondering if anyone compile tested the release on mips |
| 19:38.26 | landley | Kaloz: what kaloz: where's SYSCALL_NOERR_FUNC() #defined? |
| 19:38.54 | Kaloz | libc/sysdeps/linux/common/bits/syscalls-common.h |
| 19:38.58 | landley | Fixing it seems better than just revertig it. Looks like a nice cleanup. |
| 19:39.14 | landley | It might need a ; somewhere. |
| 19:39.38 | landley | Try running the build with V=1 and then when you've got the failing compiler command do a -E version to see the preprocessor output. |
| 19:39.40 | Kaloz | wondering if I hit theese because of the strict checks in gcc 4.6 |
| 19:39.54 | landley | That should show you what the macros are expanding to that's syntax-error territory. |
| 19:40.09 | landley | Kaloz: maybe? Dunno. I avoid the GPLv3 stuff. |
| 19:41.12 | landley | What kernel headers are you using? |
| 19:41.31 | landley | (Syscalls going wonky could easily be kernel header related...) |
| 19:41.38 | landley | That's kinda what they're used for... |
| 19:42.36 | Kaloz | 3.3-rc2, but will recheck with 3.2 in a min |
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| 19:48.58 | bimbim | hehehe |
| 19:49.19 | bimbim | shall I use uclibc instead of glibc? |
| 19:49.39 | bimbim | what do I need for it? |
| 19:54.29 | landley | bimbim: use it to do what? |
| 19:54.49 | bimbim | landley: generic desktop standard c library |
| 19:55.03 | landley | I have prebuilt uClibc cross-compiler and native-compiler toolchains at http://landley.net/aboriginal/bin if you'd just like to play around. |
| 19:55.15 | landley | (Or grab a root-filesystem tarball and chroot into it, those are uClibc based and have the native compiler.) |
| 19:55.34 | bimbim | landley: how many of them are for non-x86? |
| 19:55.41 | bimbim | for sparc? for powerpc? |
| 19:55.43 | landley | In terms of generic desktop standard C library: I've built X11 using the Beyond Linux From Scratch instructoins against uClibc, but it's not quite a drop-in replacement. There was some fiddling involved. |
| 19:56.00 | landley | bimbim: arm, mips, and powerpc all work well enough to build Linux From Scratch 6.8 natively under the result. |
| 19:56.11 | landley | (That's the lfs-* tarballs, not all of which I've uploaded for last week's release yet.) |
| 19:56.23 | landley | sparc is still a bit buggy, but works reasonably well. |
| 19:56.29 | bimbim | landley: wow, nice; diving into |
| 19:56.37 | landley | sh4 I have the problem that qemu's board emulation only has 64 megs ram so I can't natively compile much. |
| 19:56.46 | landley | (I do just enough cross compiling to make native compiling GO AWAY.) |
| 19:57.24 | landley | bimbim: I did a presentation about it once upon a time: http://speakerdeck.com/u/mirell/p/developing-for-non-x86-targets-using-qemu |
| 19:57.31 | bimbim | landley: I'm sure QEMU guys would be happy to have any help |
| 19:57.35 | landley | A touch stale in places but still a reasonable overview of what I was trying to accomplish. :) |
| 19:58.01 | landley | (Note: that slide deck was to accompany a day-long course in embedded development. It's a bit long. :) |
| 19:58.07 | bimbim | I always tought that QEmu is for emulation x86 on non-x86 |
| 19:58.24 | bimbim | coz x86 on x86 has a lot of another solutions |
| 19:58.25 | landley | bimbim: it's bidirectional. It does non-x86 on x86 just fine. |
| 19:58.40 | landley | kvm is built on top of qemu. |
| 19:58.52 | bimbim | landley: it even does x86-on-ppc very well |
| 19:58.59 | landley | It replaces the CPU emulation with CPU virtualization, but then uses the emulated devices for I/O. |
| 19:59.23 | landley | what I do is I use the emulator, boot a native development environment inside it, and then hook it up to distcc calling out to the cross compiler. |
| 19:59.28 | bimbim | landley: is KVM supported on powerpc? |
| 20:00.10 | landley | So the heavy lifting of compilation gets moved outside the emulator, and lets you take advantage of SMP, but as far as your build is concerned everything's fully native and it doesn't have to keep two contexts straight with all the headaches that entails. |
| 20:00.10 | bimbim | Sorry, the presentation you are looking for can't be found. Check out other presentations by Tryn Mirell. |
| 20:00.19 | landley | Did I typo it...? |
| 20:00.41 | landley | I just tried and it came up for me... |
| 20:00.44 | bimbim | that's me |
| 20:00.51 | bimbim | sorry |
| 20:01.09 | bimbim | anyway, it's flash movie |
| 20:01.11 | landley | (Mirell was the co-author.) |
| 20:01.15 | bimbim | unavail on non-x86 |
| 20:01.23 | landley | I've got a pdf version. |
| 20:01.26 | landley | Which is sadly huge. |
| 20:01.43 | bimbim | pdf? huh |
| 20:01.46 | bimbim | try to html5 |
| 20:01.47 | landley | http://landley.net/aboriginal/downloads/presentation.pdf |
| 20:02.01 | landley | (It was authored using Apple's Impress on Mirell's macintosh.) |
| 20:02.13 | bimbim | wgetting |
| 20:02.30 | landley | The output of which is sadly huge. Something like 90 megs for 260 slides... |
| 20:02.56 | bimbim | on my machine, it is nothing |
| 20:02.56 | landley | The actual impress file is like 3 megs, but PDF is much bigger. |
| 20:02.57 | bimbim | 100 TiB hards |
| 20:03.02 | landley | Woot. |
| 20:03.05 | bimbim | 64 GiB RAM |
| 20:03.12 | landley | You're good then. :) |
| 20:03.17 | bimbim | yeah |
| 20:03.22 | landley | My little netbook has 2 gigs ram. Atom chipset, can't upgrade it beyond that. |
| 20:03.41 | landley | I love the form factor and battery life, and the fact that if I break it the replacement cost is $250 so I don't worry carrying it around everywhere. |
| 20:03.43 | bimbim | landley: heh, Atom is the only x86 I do accept |
| 20:03.45 | landley | But it has its limitations... |
| 20:04.15 | landley | (Atom only has 32 physical address pins and needs some of that for I/O memory. Since DRAM comes in powers of 2, you can't put more than 2 gigs in one.) |
| 20:04.53 | bimbim | ah, yes, you need to flash x86 bios to get >2 GiB ram :) |
| 20:04.57 | landley | If it had a second SIMM slot I could go to 3 gigs, but alas, the acer aspire one line does not. |
| 20:05.22 | bimbim | built-in controller can't address it |
| 20:05.23 | landley | bimbim: I don't think it's a bios issue, it's a "single simm slot in the box" problem. |
| 20:05.31 | landley | shrugs. |
| 20:05.59 | bimbim | ah okay, stop about x86 |
| 20:06.02 | landley | I expect a less limited netbook will be out in a year or so. I can ssh to more powerful machines until then. (I just tend not to bother. Convenience trumps speed...)) |
| 20:06.56 | landley | Said less-limited netbook may be arm, but that opens a second can of worms getting android self-hosting. :) |
| 20:07.53 | bimbim | ARM is cool, until some Windows can run natively under it |
| 20:08.07 | bimbim | CE doesn't counr |
| 20:08.09 | landley | bimbim: windows isn't interesting. |
| 20:08.20 | landley | Mainframe -> minicomputer -> microcomputer -> smartphone. |
| 20:08.25 | bimbim | landley: ah, than what is |
| 20:08.37 | bimbim | s/than/then/ |
| 20:08.39 | landley | windows is the dominant PC os the way VMS was dominant on minicomputers. |
| 20:08.58 | landley | But nobody needed a terminal to the department server when they had their own computer on their desk. |
| 20:09.07 | landley | And nobody needs the computer on their desk when they have a computer in their pocket. |
| 20:09.20 | bimbim | landley: smartphone is nothing, actually, is't absolutely different stuff |
| 20:09.45 | landley | smartphones have clawed their way from the Altair level through the commodore 64 bespoke weirdness and up onto the early PC vs Macintosh days. But it's early days yet. |
| 20:09.58 | landley | bimbim: the smartphone is the new generic computing platform. |
| 20:10.09 | landley | Each new generation kicks the previous one up into the "server space". |
| 20:10.10 | bimbim | landley: they do; here we have -25 C and lot of cellular phones (especially ones with touch-screens) died |
| 20:10.31 | landley | Mainframes still do your payroll, Minicomputers became file and print servers, and with PCs it's called "the cloud". |
| 20:10.41 | bimbim | landley: heh |
| 20:10.52 | landley | Everybody always goes "but the UI on phones is terrible!" |
| 20:11.00 | landley | And I point them at the toshiba dynadock and go "give that 5 years". |
| 20:11.26 | bimbim | landley: yep, it forces users to pinch using fat fingers |
| 20:12.09 | landley | USB docking stations are 5 years old, and let you hook up two big monitors, keyboard, rat, speakers, gigE, hard drives, you name it. All while providing power. |
| 20:12.11 | bimbim | siemens a50 (10-yo) can still call on GSM networks, but 2-yo nokias can't |
| 20:12.46 | landley | The now-obsolete Nexus One had half a gig of ram, 32 gigs SD card, a gigahertz processor, and built-in broadband internet, and more or less ran Linux. That's about my laptop circa 2003. |
| 20:13.55 | landley | Mac was proprietary (because Apple won the 1983 lawsuit against Franklin), PC was generic (because IBM _lost_ the lawsuit against compaq). The commodity platform more or less swept the field for a couple decades there. |
| 20:14.14 | landley | Mac only came back by switching to the generic hardware and leveraging the proprietary OS to beat the other proprietary OS. |
| 20:14.51 | landley | bimbim: note the tablet space. Tablets that are scaled down PCs flop. Tablets that are big smartphones can't be manufactured fast enough. |
| 20:15.23 | landley | This really is the fourth time we've seen this story. Bet on the smartphone, the PC is going to be displaced. |
| 20:15.38 | landley | May take a few years... |
| 20:16.46 | landley | Of course in order to replace the PC, the smartphone must become self-hosting and capable of rebuilding its own operating system under itself. Until then we have the "wordperfect is cross-compiled from a Vax" situation of the early PC... |
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| 20:33.16 | artmann | hi. sry for noob-alert and maybe wrong channel. I compiled a hello world for a busybox-router with arm-linux-gcc). I get a "hello.cgi : applet not found" when trying to execute. As there is a symlink "msh -> busybox", does this mean i would have to compile any little program right "into" busybox? |
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